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When you have a version of a character that is like the original, except powered up (Hollywood, Keeper Surfer, RKT, Superman Prime, KC Flash), should they still be assumed to be capable of all of the feats and abilities they showed in their previous forms?

For example, Superman could see souls, does that mean Superman 1 Million can, too?

Wally in his normal form as the Flash can steal and transfer speed, so can KC Flash do that as well, even though we never saw him do it?

Discuss

Originally posted by Endless Mike
When you have a version of a character that is like the original, except powered up (Hollywood, Keeper Surfer, RKT, Superman Prime, KC Flash), should they still be assumed to be capable of all of the feats and abilities they showed in their previous forms?

For example, Superman could see souls, does that mean Superman 1 Million can, too?

Wally in his normal form as the Flash can steal and transfer speed, so can KC Flash do that as well, even though we never saw him do it?

Discuss

With the two examples you provided, they're intrinsically different characters- Superman One Million is not the same as Clark Kent, and the KC Flash was Barry... from an entirely different world.

But characters like Rune King Thor or the Keeper Surfer... they didn't lose their original powers when they gained new ones, so it would make sense for them to be able to replicate anything they did in their original forms.

So it's one of those 'case by case' basis type of things, I'd say.

Well Superman 1 Million was said to have all of the powers of his ancestors

Originally posted by tjcoady
With the two examples you provided, they're intrinsically different characters- Superman One Million is not the same as Clark Kent, and the KC Flash was Barry... from an entirely different world.

But characters like Rune King Thor or the Keeper Surfer... they didn't lose their original powers when they gained new ones, so it would make sense for them to be able to replicate anything they did in their original forms.

So it's one of those 'case by case' basis type of things, I'd say.

The Flash in Kingdom Come was Wally.

Originally posted by Soljer
The Flash in Kingdom Come was Wally.

Yeah, but from a different Earth. And the recent Arena stuff (Monarch's army-building) showed us that not every version of a character has the same power set. Always similar, but not identical.

I'd agree with the case-by-case assessment of it. No other way to do it except common sense and what the scans tell us. In Keeper-Surfer's case, though, IIRC he was 616 Surfer but just a future or divergent timeline from him. So the vast majority of his 616 feats still applied because they shared a common history.

I think. Someone may remember better than I.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, but from a different Earth. And the recent Arena stuff (Monarch's army-building) showed us that not every version of a character has the same power set. Always similar, but not identical.

I'd agree with the case-by-case assessment of it. No other way to do it except common sense and what the scans tell us. In Keeper-Surfer's case, though, IIRC he was 616 Surfer but just a future or divergent timeline from him. So the vast majority of his 616 feats still applied because they shared a common history.

I think. Someone may remember better than I.

I never said that KC Flash was the same as 'New Earth' Wally.

Just that he was Wally, as the other poster mentioned, incorrectly, that it was Barry.

Further; yes, you're spot on about Keeper being the Surfer from a divergent timeline. However, feats AFTER the diverge would be inadmissible for him.

Originally posted by Soljer
I never said that KC Flash was the same as 'New Earth' Wally.

Just that he was Wally, as the other poster mentioned, incorrectly, that it was Barry.

Further; yes, you're spot on about Keeper being the Surfer from a divergent timeline. However, feats AFTER the diverge would be inadmissible for him.

heh. Always assumed it was Barry, mostly because they never say the name of the Flash and most of the other characters are Silver Agers rather than the more current ones.

Did Waid say it was Wally in Kingdom? Because the name Wally never gets used in KC.

I was always under the impression that "Uber" (God do I hate that word) forms of characters were allowed in terms of their "Uber" Forms, but not otherwise... like if you say Cosmic Spiderman vs. Wolverine... that's different than saying Spiderman Vs. Wolverine..... Have I missed the point of this thread?

Originally posted by Blight
I was always under the impression that "Uber" (God do I hate that word) forms of characters were allowed in terms of their "Uber" Forms, but not otherwise... like if you say Cosmic Spiderman vs. Wolverine... that's different than saying Spiderman Vs. Wolverine..... Have I missed the point of this thread? Almost entirely

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Almost entirely

Originally posted by Endless Mike
For example, Superman could see souls, does that mean Superman 1 Million can, too?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well Superman 1 Million was said to have all of the powers of his ancestors Kinda answered your own question, eh? ermmnone

Originally posted by Galan007
Kinda answered your own question, eh? ermmnone

What if we had a situation in which a character manifested a new power, not had at the time of the original "uber" version of the characters appearance (such as Torquasm Vo or something), in a situation like Supes One Million where it was said he had all the powers of the original? Where will logic take you then, in my ludicrously specific possibility!?

Originally posted by tjcoady
What if we had a situation in which a character manifested a new power, not had at the time of the original "uber" version of the characters appearance (such as Torquasm Vo or something), in a situation like Supes One Million where it was said he had all the powers of the original? Where will logic take you then, in my ludicrously specific possibility!? If it's not a power that had to be learned, it would kind of serve as a retcon to the Supes 1M character (as in, oh, and we didn't mention it, but he ALSO has T-Vo!)

Well, SMP is a character who has the same powers, only enhanced, so yes he can, and characters of a similar situation can as well.

Originally posted by tjcoady
What if we had a situation in which a character manifested a new power, not had at the time of the original "uber" version of the characters appearance (such as Torquasm Vo or something), in a situation like Supes One Million where it was said he had all the powers of the original? Where will logic take you then, in my ludicrously specific possibility!? S1M is from the 853rd century -- every ability would have been used by then.

In all honesty,
I would never argue for a character, regarding feats, if that character had never demonstrated said feats on panel. . vin

Originally posted by Galan007
S1M is from the 853rd century -- every ability would have been used by then.

In all honesty,
I would never argue for a character, regarding feats, if that character had never demonstrated said feats on panel. . vin

Yes, but if a character, or a different version of the same character, with exactly the same powers (or fewer powers, but including the powers of the character you're debating) has done it, then why not?

I mean, if one GL (just an average one) does a certain feat with no special circumstances around it, why couldn't Hal or Kyle do it, even if they never have?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I mean, if one GL (just an average one) does a certain feat with no special circumstances around it, why couldn't Hal or Kyle do it, even if they never have? Skill, creativity, reaction time, intelligence, power... could be a number of contributing factors.

Keeper may have the powers that Surfer has... but if he hasn't made use of his cosmic awareness since his Surfer days, he's not about to in a fight.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes, but if a character, or a different version of the same character, with exactly the same powers (or fewer powers, but including the powers of the character you're debating) has done it, then why not?

I mean, if one GL (just an average one) does a certain feat with no special circumstances around it, why couldn't Hal or Kyle do it, even if they never have? That line of thinking is entirely dependent on whom we are talking about -- it would literally vary from character to character.

imo,
there's no way we can come to an 'in general' consensus on this particular topic.

so, case-by-case basis it is then.

IMO it's best to credit Uber versions of established characters with the feats of the original... but only up to the time period in which the Uber version is established. So in the case of someone like the Keeper, all 616 feats for Surfer from the year Keeper was introduced and before would carry over, but no feats from after that period. In the case of someone like GDS Darkseid, his Pre-Crisis feats and such would carry over, but none of the more recent stuff.

Most people don't go by that policy, but IMO it makes more sense than handling it any other way.

Originally posted by tjcoady
so, case-by-case basis it is then. imo,
that's the way it is.

srug

Well, you could still narrow it down.

"Uber characters" is kind of a broad spectrum.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Well, you could still narrow it down.

"Uber characters" is kind of a broad spectrum. Probably..

But because it can be different with pretty much every character -- it's hard to categorize.

srug

Every 'uber' character, as you called them. Is within an alternate Universe and or/dimension. As such the usual rules apply.

Originally posted by grey fox
Every 'uber' character, as you called them. Is within an alternate Universe and or/dimension. As such the usual rules apply.

What about the ones where the normal version of a character gets a powerup?