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Round 1: Match 2. You know the drill.


4. Papa Smurph

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Sonia Sato - 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judomaster

Hector Hall - 6 (Body) (Mind)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Fate

World War Hulk - 6 (Body)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_Hulk

Amalgam v2 - 6
Prep time v3 - 5


Name:The Amalgam that just kicked your ass and raped your mother x2.

Total: 25 points

vs

9. psycho gundam



Area:
a) In the middle of a Blizzard in Antarctica



All tournament participants must vote or you may be penalized during your match for not voting. If you cannot or are unable to vote, contact me ahead of time. As to non-participants, anyone who has 1000 posts or more can vote.

Originally posted by Evangel94

People may not vote in any of the match threads for the first 12 hours of the match. This gives both tournament participants plenty of time to debate and put forth all their plans for everyone to see.

The first 12 hours gives all participants and non-participants to watch, discuss, be merry, and socialize in both discussion and tourney odds thread.

After 12 hours, everyone may vote for whomever they want in the match thread.

-Evangel94

Now to kick things off.

This mind you is classic juggernaut which is the same now as current juggernaut after his powers were restored by cyttorak.

the story so far-
cain marko now fully empowered by the gem of cyttorak promised to return to his destructive ways to gain his waining powers.this new empowerment wasn't just a gift to his subject, cyttorak secretly wants the juggernaut to open up a rift large enough in order to transport cyttorak himself into the 616 universe, but cain will need further enhancements in order for that to happen.

word comes to cain that a tournament of champions is being held and the prize is the greatest wish of the winner be real.the connection between cain and cyttorak reveals that cain still hungers for answers from his past regardless of his great powers and this revelation provides a means for cain to get more power and most importantly cyttorak his prize.

cyttorak gives cain a subconscious suggestion to pay a visit to the ruins of lumaria under the ocean. after a long search, he stumbles upon the space infinity gem(Black bolt had Triton hide it there for safe keeping).
cain remembered a few years ago all the Earth's heroes banding together to defeat Thanos who controlled the gems. also, his reading in the X-men and eX-calibur data banks had charles Xavier's detailed log of the events, provided him with basic knowledge of the gems.
he laughs to himself that the means of his coming triumph will be attained by a purple marble.

in an instant cain is seemingly teleported
to the shoreline just by thinking about it for a split second. he laughs so hard that the shore birds fly in fear for miles. he smirks and says"i want the pow-" in an instant he is transported to the negative zone where in front of him is the power gem encased in titanium. this lower than nothing to the juggernaut who then proceeds to rip the metal from the gem. now surging with energy so great, he finds himself feeling more powerful than he was in his trion days.

now for the reality gem he thinks, but he remembers the line in Xavier's notes that said that the psyche of the possessor of the gems can get overwhelmed by it's sensory input. he then decides the two he has now are satisfactory for his plans and teleports himself to a nearby island to test his gems. a week later the tournament draws near and the juggernaut sets his sites on the prize. the destruction of charles Xavier.

and now the fight-

cain is told the fight will be held in antarctica and will be fought by an unknown opponent. in the blink of an eye cain is already there.

the battlefield is amidst a harsh tundra with minimal visibility.all that can be seen is a robot ten feet in front of him. the robot upon seeing cain fires a beam into the stratosphere, the beam then cascades over most of the visible sky and thickens into a forcefield.

cain pounds his fists ready to fight.in a robotic voice, the announcer bot says"ready fight!" cain activates his personal force field(which is now backed by the power gem also making it much more durable)cain crosses his arms and waits for his opponent to draw near, but after several minutes he realizes he isn't coming for him.

cain decides to delve into a little ingenuity to"coax" his opponent out. he closes his eyes and focuses his vision through the space gem and like a room full of televisions a 360 degree input is clear to him. the only thing is they are more attuned to the proximity of all things and appear fuzzy, except for one object about 35 meters from his location. as clear as day it's the hulk with what appears to be a helmet on and and amulet like the one dr.stephen strange caries on his chest.

cain says to himself"I can't believe my luck, i get more power and want to kill someone and the first one is the frick'n hulk, this is too much." the juggernaut one of earth's most inpatient people decides to bring his prey to him, but remembers their last run in and that the hulk was a lot more intelligent this time around and his new adornments must be designed to battle cain. things are going to be different this time he thinks, I'm the strongest ever!

cain then teleports right behind the hulk and delivers a series of punches that by no visible means are parried by some manner, the hulk tries to use a throwing technique but cain's core body strength is to great.cain just raises up and bear hugs the hulk and then proceeds to squeeze him to death. the hulk cries out in pain as the power gem fueled muscles of the juggernaut exert increasing levels of pressure even though he is trying to flex out of his grip. the hulk tries to conjure up a field but it gets snuffed out by cain's mastery of energy.

cain then says"whats with the funny hat there greeny? trynna keep yur face pretty? the hulk then yells in desperation then starts to head but cain with all the force he can in his current position, but to no avail."so you want to head but with me huh? the juggernaut then head buts the hulk with a forceful flow that puts a crack in the helmet the hulk wears."what *aaaggg* manner of creature are you?" says the hulk."your worst nightmare, and you know what, I want to see your face when I kill you"cain then teleports the helmet off the hulk's head and proceeds to deliver a volley of head buts that reduce the hulk's head to a mess of bone and green flesh.

cain is somewhat perplexed that the hulk's rage and strength has dropped since the last time they fought, but he just chalks it up to his new found power. still in the mighty grip of the juggernaut, the hulk's body now fitting the contours of the juggernaut's costume like playdough in a mold. cain notices the hulks head trying to regenerate but the process is slow since the his brain is reduced to muck.cain thinks"I'm just going to wait till it grow back and do it all over again just to see the look on his face hahahahah."

the robot announcer decides to call the match a win for cain marko due to inability for his opponent to continue. cain not satisfied with that victory finishes off the corpse in his hands by completely crossing his arms through the torso of the hulk tearing the hulk in two pieces, thus spilling his innards all over the snowy ground.cain then raises his arms over his head and brings them down on the hulk with so much force that reduces the continent of antarctica to shake.

the robot was spared the the force because it was standing behind the juggernaut.cain then says"now I'm done with him."he then walks away and the robot then gets to see the remains of the hulk, nothing is left aside from a crater with shards of the helmet and amulet covered in green ooz.

It's a little hard on the eyes, could you edit it really fast and just separate it into paragraphs? Turning each of those big paragraphs into two smaller ones should help a lot. Thanks.

-Evangel94

for some further reference:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t391016.html

you forgot to counter my power gem, one punch will atomize your character

I can't be hit. Sorry.

in my write up I had you held and sqeezed

the power gem can weaken the aversion field if need be

Can't be grabbed either.

Wildcat's tried and failed.

space gem can allow me to position anything anywhere

How's the power gem going to weaken the aversion field?

How's Cain going to even know about my aversion field?

Space Gem teleporting you places is good and dandy, but you try to teleport into me and the aversion field will allow me to give you the slip.

"It contains access to all power and energy that ever has or will exist"

Get out my face with that garbo

YAH TRICK YAH YAH

I can't be hit by any direct attacks, your character wins through direct attacks. Cain Marko is not smart enough to deduce I have an aversion field when Mr. Terrific could barely deduce it. Power gem does not get made up abilities.

1+1=/=3

Or something.

I just to want remind everyone in this thread about the scan availability in the comic book "respect" forum.

Almost all popular characters have their own thread, just look in the respect thread for it. Use the directories to find who you are looking for.

Comic "respect" forum
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=98

one thing about the aversion field, the hulk's body is large right so how can i manage to miss it when i try to grab him? is it like trying to hold a wet bar of soap or something?

http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=generationx61098pv.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=generationx61098pv.jpg

If you could edit and label what that scan is about, that would be helpful to everyone reading this thread. Also, could you do that for future scans you post? It makes it easier for everyone to understand what you are talking about. Thank you.

lulz at Evangel giving debate lessons. I say let them die by their own hand!



But yeah, solid advice.

Eh being bigger just means more to miss. An aversion field is still an aversion field. Juggernaut's rarely used thunderclap (which we know Marko is too arrogant to attempt against the Hulk), even with power gem, still is likely dwarfed by no selling Black Bolt's voice and taking nukes.

YIAGJEKLWTHJIOAH YAHHH TRICKK YAHHH

stop doing that, it's beneath you man

a brief overlook of the gems: http://en.marveldatabase.com/Infinity_Gems

your field can be messed with if it's composed of energy and juggernaut can also energy manipulate with the power gem. he just gets so frustrated with missing his punches that he thunderclaps hulk over and over till it's over.

Yeah if you had the reality gem and MAYBE EVEN soul gem you could probably mess up the field (if you can prove Cain Marko is smart enough to even figure out how there is a field in the first place). Power and Space gems don't really do anything outside of amp strength and grant teleportation.

Your only option is the thunderclap, which I can tank, push comes to shove, Hector starts to feel the heat, he goes intangible

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Intangible.jpg

(flies through glass) and calls it a day.

Physical damage didn't really mean much to Fate at the end of his tenure, put it together with Hulk's healing and the fact that you can't directly attack me, done deal.

but you still can't do a thing to juggernaut when his force field is active, even without the power gem backing him.

and common sense would imply that after days of fighting, anyone with normal intelligence and the space gem would just teleport their opponent outside the ring and hold them in null space till time runs out.

I could just teleport us back (though your method violates the rules).

Taking out Juggs is only a matter of teleporting his helmet off and mind frying him (after peering into his lifetime). It won't really take me days to fight, probably only a couple of hours (giving you the most benefit of the doubt).

Getting his helmet and skullcap off is as simple as teleporting them it into my amulet.

the force field and the space gem prevent that from coming to pass.

I don't really think so, Extant possessing the Worlogog couldn't detect Hector and the JSA hiding inside the helmet. Fate's helmet and amulet are kinda like Adam Warlock outside the realm of chaos and order so it's safe to say hiding the helmet and cap inside my helmet or amulet makes them as good as lost. I don't really know how the forcefield is going to prevent me from BFRing the helmet/skullcap, unless it works like a vacuum or some such.

Then you have the problem of Cain being too arrogant to always have the forcefield up (even if you can prove it helps keep the helmet/skullcap from being teleported).

cain never gets teleported period, and again the space gem wont allow it

Cain's isn't, his cap and helmet are, though.

pardon? I'm not sure what that meant^

the power gem backs the force field with all the energy in the universe if need be.

What I'm saying is that I'm not teleporting Cain anywhere, just his helmet and his skull cap. Cain being Cain won't know where I've put his helmet and skull cap (inside my helmet or amulet, whichever Hector is in the mood for) which leaves him wide open for a mind attack.

a more powerful juggy took a mind bolt from bedlam, an exemplar no less and only received a burning headache that soon faded:
http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jug8thdayp318bm.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jug8thdayp328ck.jpg
then went back to pounding, the power gem will empower him beyond 8th day levels

edit

His helmet was still on

I'd imagine that had something to do with it. I don't really know if the PG would put him beyond 8th day levels much like I don't really know if the PG put Thor beyond his Warrior's Madness levels either. Though I imagine it would, just fun speculation.

sure the helmet way on, but the mind blast still hurt him because bedlam was functionally equal in origin and power source, kinda like thor's major opponents hail from asgard. the exemplars are the only ones exempt to each other's powers. but still, this juggernat has the gems of power and space, a very different and higher power source

Which has never given anyone more resistance against telepathic attacks.

nobody was dumb enough to challenge telepathically attack a wielder of the gems anyway.

Eh I still don't have reason to believe why a power gem would enhance mental resistance. :P

amped force of will, indestructible neuron pathways and/or gray matter, recovery from said mental attack etc.

plus the force field is on and mental attacks from anyone but bedlam are
a waste of effort.

after all that, cain can just materialize into you and thats the end of that

Power gem amps will?

When has Cain's forcefield helped against mental attacks (I suppose he probably has maybe one showing in his history where it has)?

Even if Cain can materalize inside of me (assuming his aim isn't thrown off by the field like everything else) I could just make myself intangible and heal from it.

that will be quite the healing feat, total boy repair from the molecular level?

Sounds like what he was doing throughout the entirety of WWH (most notably when Kitty phased him into the ground). :P

this is different though

My Vote: Papa Smurph

Psycho simply had a poorly laid out plan. He offered no explanation for how Juggernaut would be able to use the gems to their fullest potential when smarter characters have failed to do so, and seems to have spent his prep writing a story about the tourney (thanks though) instead of putting together a comprehensive battle plan. He suggests all sorts of abilities from the gems that have never been shown, and somehow tries to squeeze in a week of prep when he didn't purchase any.

On the other hand, while Stack's prep didn't have anything overly impressive about it, I feel it was well supported and thought out, as well as having a superior battle plan and amalgam in my opinion. He backed everything up with scans and had a plausible idea of how the battle will go.

psychogundam just couldn't convince me that Cain had the intelligence to use the gems in the ways he claimed. On the other hand PS had a well thought out plan which he supported effectively with evidence.

Vote: PapaSmurph

Same as what others have said Gundam didn't convince me that Cain would know how to use the Gems to their full abilities seeing as how he didn't have any prep whatsoever .
While I fully believed that Papa Smurph could do everything he said e could via his scans and the setup of his character

I vote for Papa Smurph

I like that there's a robot calling the match in gundam's writeup. It's the little things...

Voting for Joey. I read through the match and got upset at a lot of the debating from either side, but he presented a more coherent plan. I'm quite sure gundam could do a lot of what he says he could with the gems, so I didn't think it was a surefire win for Stacks, but there wasn't nearly enough justification for it beyond "they have all power for everything" for me to feel comfortable voting for him.

....

Also, another petition to move match times to circa 5-to-5 instead of 3-to-3. It makes it difficult for those of us who work until 4-5 most days.

Voting for Stacks.

Both of their strategies and debate tactics were piss poor overall, so I just went the recommended route and decided based on character line-up.

Like the other match, I am not a fan any form of monologue or story telling. You are in a tournament, trying to convince us why you are superior in this match. So Ill try to seep in what we can get out of the match and the character set up.

Ok so basically Cain is going for a speed blitz or teleport and smash his way through. As Classic Juggernaut he is already strong. With the Power Gem it should give him a vary significant boost.

Stacks take notice that, this is all Cain can really do, so he puts up an aversion field (clever BTW), yet he decides to stand their and throw down with Cain for a few minutes until he gets annoyed.

However I am not sold in the idea that ground will hold Juggernaut (which forces him to look at the helm), or that the helm will bypass Juggernauts Helm mental defenses and peer into his mind to reveal his past and his weakness.

Stalemate - I would like to hear from both contestants before I make a final judgment.

Originally posted by id369
Stalemate - I would like to hear from both contestants before I make a final judgment. Ohh come on... srsly

I just don't see it. Both plans can't work. I'm gonna give it to Stacks because the idea of Juggs using the full potential of the gems is laughable.

But both your plans are absolute garbage. And saying Juggs won't use a T-clap is BS. If he can't hit her, eventually he would probably try it. but Hulk's body is more than tough enough to take a few hits.

sure i didn't prove to you lot that juggy can use the gems in any manner beyond what other wielders did, and my huge opening posts were"self satisfactory". but.............the way in which they were constructed was in character and displayed powers from both combatants in an unbiased way. stories take time and ones without pictures take longer.

I can't see how I have to prove that cain will never get his hands on A JUDO PRACTITIONER, a technique system based on hip tosses and
shoulder flips. I had that move fail on cain resulting in papa's character getting grabbed and thus getting his shit ruined.

the aversion field was never shown doing anything against a powerful character like a colossus or a superman, and with the power gem cain is stronger than them infinitely. plus cain is a magical being and its arguable that the aversion field would fail from his punches and irresistibility.

all in all, I never thought I had to explain further than my first two posts and that maybe led you to believe cain would lose, I'm still waiting to hear how he beats the invulnerability against mind assaults and first having to REMOVE THE HELMET AND SKULLCAP(not yelling just emphasizing a point)after first somehow getting pasta a power gem fueled force field. wtf?

if you're too scared to read this just vote for smurph

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

And saying Juggs won't use a T-clap is BS.

Give me a percentage of Juggernaut's fights where he uses a T-Clap and I'll give you a percentage of chance he'll use it in this fight (which will likely come out to less then 2% especially considering you're giving Juggs the credit in being able to recognise that a 3rd party is throwing him off, not very in-character).

This is a in-character fight Trickster, if Juggs doesn't normally use a T-Clap, he likely won't use it here. Even if he does, won't do much.

What in my plan was garbage, btw?

The part where, Juggernaut looks up and you successfully invade his mind to glimpse over his history. I thought the helm protected from all forms of telepathy. I am not a big Cain nor a Magician fan, please explain or clear this up for me.

Originally posted by id369
The part where, Juggernaut looks up and you successfully invades his mind to glimpse over his history. I thought the helm protected from all forms of telepathy. I am not a big Cain nor a Magician fan, please explain or clear this up for me.

Fate doesn't require eye contact or telepathy to look at one's fate, he just does it with a mystical spell

Like when he does it to Extant without having even met the guy

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Extantknowledge.jpg




in Mordru's case he had already peered into his future before they even fought and just decided to show the image to him as an extra source of mind rapery. Usually it just works like Quasar's cosmic awareness did in that Nabu just informs him about the character in question (like with Curse and Black Adam). Hell, Fate's even done it to himself (which he actually says in the very next page to Mordru).

cain is invulnerable, eventually you get beaten

shouldn't the mod end this now? it's past 3:00

My vote goes to - Papa Smurph


Ultimately the aversion field plus being intangible, gives him a working case to eventually learn of weakness get the helm off.

30 Minute Warning. If you haven't casted your vote yet, and still intend to vote, you have up until 3:00PM CST to vote.

I vote for psycho gundam.........

Actually, that raises a good question. Can we vote for ourselves? I wasn't really planning on it, but I'm also not one to shun any tactical edge.

And it's 3PM CST, which means my estimates were a bit off. It's 4 for me (EST) so it should make things easier for me (usually).

even though It appears I lost, I still need to know how.
no grudge or anything just make me believe how a mage lesser then dr.strange(who the juggernaut beat up for enlisting him one time two many in a magic fight) can beat juggernaut holding two infinity gems?
the hulk at his strongest can only hope to stalemate a normal juggy and now he has the power and space gem. something doesn't add up.
the eversion field, juggy is unstoppable.....am i missing something?

it doesn't even have to be papa smurph, anyone just tell me how.

A>B>C =/= the best logic

Strange doesn't have the ability to buy himself time via aversion field and can't go toe to toe with Juggernaut like WWH could

and can Strange turn intangible?

Most people offered a brief analysis of their reasoning gundam. If you need advice, consult those to see what you fell short on. The tourney isn't over and you still have a good combination. Re-tool some aspects of your strategy and justification for it, and you can still make a go of it.

Otherwise, you'll get a lot of the same comments as the votes, and won't get any substantial handouts in the form of advice unless it's from an outsider to the tourney.

way I have seen it since jumpstreet, you just got paired with the worst possible opponent/amalgam.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Actually, that raises a good question. Can we vote for ourselves? I wasn't really planning on it, but I'm also not one to shun any tactical edge.

And it's 3PM CST, which means my estimates were a bit off. It's 4 for me (EST) so it should make things easier for me (usually).

Participants cannot vote in matches they are competing in.

Match voting ended at 3:00PM CST. Posting results...

Participant Voting Record:
1. TONY STARK - Did not vote -1
2. Creshosk - Did not vote -1
3. id369 - Voted
4. Papa Smurph - N/A
5. darthgoober - Did not Vote -1
6. Symmetric Chaos - Voted
7. Devil Lance - Voted
8. TricksterPriest - Voted
9. psycho gundam - N/A
10. King Kandy - Voted
11. Digimark007 - Voted
12. SmurphSmash! - Did not vote -1

Votes for PapaSmurph: 7
King Kandy
Symmetric Chaos
Devil Lance
DigiMark007
Soljer
TricksterPriest
id369


Votes for Psycho Gundam: N/A
-Cheer up, your still in this tournament.

Final Thoughts on the Match: Psycho Gundam had a potentially very strong amalgam. He covered all his bases: Strength & Durability, Speed, and Protection from telepathic attacks. However, Psycho Gundam needed to a do a better job of arguing his claims and backing them up with evidence. Using the wildcards such as the Infinity Gems can be really great or not so great depending on who is using them. We should all remember though that the Power and Space Gems do give a minimum boost at the very least. Not to mention that Juggernaut ironically communicates and draws power from Cytorak using his own gem, so he not completely unfamiliar with the concept.

Papa Smurph fought his ground in the debates and constantly rebuttled arguments. And the votes reflect that. We will see how he does in future matches.

I will remind everyone that even if you can debate well that does not guarantee victory. If you don't have a good starting team you are already at a disadvantage (Not that this applies in this match). Remember that having a good team and debating go hand in hand. NEITHER one supercedes the other. Having both is great. Having one is can hurt you. Having neither really hurts you.

Psycho Gundam loses his first in the 'best of three' matches. He is still in this tournament. Hopefully, he can learn from his mistakes and catch his opponent really off guard by the sheer potential of the amalgam he created. All psycho gundam needs to do is learn how to use that potential (like the infinity gems he chose).

-Evangel94

^they way that sounds I could of drafted the living tribunal and still lost.
what gives?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^they way that sounds I could of drafted the living tribunal and still lost.
what gives?

Basically, the contestants were looking for you to post scans of the power and space gem being used as more evidence to counter the Magic of Dr. Fate. Also, you write-up needed to be a little less story oriented and more focused on the evidence and power of your character. The more information you can provide about your character for everyone to see, the better.

Don't worry though. You may have lost the first match, but you are still in this tournament. It's "best of three". Just 'bring it' to your next opponent.

-Evangel94

I have a lot of the issues but mostly idiots get the power gem. energy manipulation and control never comes up, so in essence common scense has to prevail. oh but thats not allowed, silly me.

Cheer Up Psycho Gundam. You still have a chance to win this tournament just as much as anyone else at this point. The tournament is still in its early phases.

-I'd also recommended reading the Infinity Gauntlet if anyone hasn't.

-Also, JLA/Avengers.

-Also, for a great display of how the Power Gem, even by a brick, is used check out She-Hulk #11.

I like teh advice Evangel, but there should probably be a line between debating advice and handing him issue numbers on a spoon. Part of tourneys is doing the necessary research for yourself.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I like teh advice Evangel, but there should probably be a line between debating advice and handing him issue numbers on a spoon. Part of tourneys is doing the necessary research for yourself.

During the match, yes, I agree. But this match is over now, and anything said now is after the fact. Nothing I tell Psycho Gundam can change the results of this match. Part of tournaments is doing the reasearch yourself, but nothing is wrong with giving participants a helping hand and pointing them in the right direction after the match is over. But I will take your advice and refrain from being too detailed in the future.

Whether or not Psycho Gundam decides to utilize the advice others offer him in his next match to its fullest extent is completely up to him. It can only improve the quality of the tournament as a whole if they learn from their mistakes.

Fair enough.

And do votes start getting docked if you don't vote in a match, or do you have to be a no-show for 2-3 before you start getting penalized? Because we're all likely to miss at least 1 at some point.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Fair enough.

And do votes start getting docked if you don't vote in a match, or do you have to be a no-show for 2-3 before you start getting penalized? Because we're all likely to miss at least 1 at some point.

As long as you contact me ahead of time and let me know, I will understand. However, I do not take too kindly to those who simply disappear for others matches and re-appear for their own. The rule is in play to encourage everyone to participate. You have said it yourself that drop out rate get higher and higher as tournaments move foward.

Anyway, this thread is not for this dicussion, if you have any general advice for Psycho Gundam, then feel free to post, but take questions like this to the discussion thread.