Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Ho, good warriors! I bid thee welcome to this most glorious of feasts! Here we shall share tales of battles won and lost, and of valor rightly earned on the hallowed battlefields of KMC.

{end Asgardian accent}

K fellas, here's the run-down:

1 - This will act as the official discussion thread for all tournaments, past and present. Leave upcoming tourney plans out of this. Basically, I hope to be able to share stories from past tournaments: strategies, debates, participants, etc.

2 - All are welcome. But "The Honored Fallen" will be arbitrarily selected by me as people who have suffered crushing defeats in tourney matches that were hard-fought. It is intended to mirror the Hall of Asgard where fallen warriors drink mead, tell glorious stories, and await the final battle.

3 - That last part is for sh*ts and giggles, and if anyone becomes snippy over it, I won't shed tears over ditching the idea. It's not a team or even a group, just a fun (and sad) distinction. But this is first and foremost a discussion thread for a specific KMC phenomenon (tourneys). See that it stays on-topic.

4 - I intend to someday retire from tourneys, and at that time I also intend to share my "collected wisdom" with anyone who wishes to hear it. Tourney vets are encouraged to share bits of wisdom or advice as they see fit.

5 - Speaking like Asgardians is encouraged ( ), as are ludicrously dramatic (but true) tales of valor on the "battlefield."

6 - Our lists are posted below, covering a wide range of tourney history. These are for fun, so you can suggest new lists or amendments to current ones, but don't get upset over them.

Resources

Tournament Respect Thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t443343.html

Guide for Tournament Directors (also useful for participants): http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8474873#post8474873

And for all your heathenry needs, this is an excellent online store for all sorts of mythological sweetness:
http://www.northworld-international.com/en

Using this post our lists. I'm sure Faceman won't mind.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
List of "Hall of the Honored Fallen" Inductees:
Khellendros, Long Pig, Krissy Von Doom (KVD), Loot (Norrin Radd)

Respect Thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t443343.html


The Lists: Entry #1

"Hardest/easiest tournament" uses the following criteria: If an average debater from today were to enter each tourney, how hard/easy would it be for them to win? It does take into account era, so it is assumed that no scans would be allowed in the early tournaments (I-III or IV), even for our hypothetical modern participant.

Hardest Tournament:

3 - Iron Man Team Tournament (V) (Winner: Blair Wind)
Why: It was the tournament where the "old guard" vets seemed to meet the newest debaters of the current generation. There were precious few easy-outs, even in a 16 man tourney. Scan-heavy posts also made the scene for the first time, making it a rough transition for some.

2 - Herald Team Tournament (VI) (Winners: Leo and Kahn)
Why: Very little prep put an emphasis on character debating more than any tourney in the modern era, and partner tournaments are always a shade tougher because you have to coordinate plans with our partner and also make sure both partners are dedicated enough to win.

1 - Under Thanos Team Tourney (VIII) (Winners: Darkcrawler and Blair)
Why: Competition. There was one team that was a pushover, then every other team in the whole tourney was not only strong but a threat to win it all. Many felt that the best team, bran and goober with Adaptoid, Despero, and Earth X Absorbing Man, was actually the best in the tourney. And they lost in the semis. Not that crazy plans hadn't happened until this point (they had) but "prep time" took on a whole new meaning as teams went from a groups of herald types to Skyfather-busting meshes and beyond. And the finals match probably had more tourney experience in it than any match before or since, and was decided 3-2 by a hair's length.


The Lists: Entry #2

Most Crushing Loss

3 - illadelph12 vs. Blair Wind (Tourney V)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=391348&pagenumber=1
Illadelph took the loss hard, and rightly so, because it was an incredibly hard fought match on both sides.

2 - Khellendros vs. Scoobless (Tourney II)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331132
...this was Khell's closest and best chance at a tourney win. He was initially up in the poll only to be overtaken late.

1 - Scoob/Digi vs. Blair/DC (Tourney VIII)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t442032.html
...sorry to make myself #1 here, but it really was. Blair and Scoob had their tourney wins already, but DC and I had a lot riding on it. With the judges locked 2-2, and both plans at feverishly ludicrous levels, both teams threw out last-second arguments to try to swing the last judge to their side. And a week after the tourney, Scoob and I happened upon a scan that may have countered their main point against our prep.


The Lists: Entry #3

Easiest Tourney (same criteria as Hardest)

Please note: "easiest" does not mean "worst" as there is a lot to be said for all of these tournaments listed below. This is simply an assessment of the difficulty in winning each one.

3 - Evangel's 2nd Multi-Level Tourney (VII)
Why: We weren't always so able to field multiple tourneys at one time, and Scoobless was able to use his experience in past tourneys to best a comparatively weak field (some good debaters, but many were very new to tourneys), because it took place at the same time as another tourney (VIII), which had already siphoned away many of KMC's elite at the time.

2 - Low Meta Team Amalgam (X)
Why: Ill's current tourney boasts excellent debaters and powerful strategies, but has suffered from people dropping out. Regardless of the competition level, when showing up assures a team of a spot in the semis, the odds are more in a team's favor than most tourneys.

1 - KMC's First Multi-Level Tourney (I)
Why: Not a testament to the participants or tourney itself, which pioneered the idea of tourneys here on KMC, but it's just an undeniable fact that the quality of tournaments has improved drastically. The first tournament was groping in the dark with strategies and rules, so it's to be commended for setting the base for future tourneys, but one cannot look at it today and not see how the knowledge of the forums has increased monumentally.


The Lists: Entry #4

Best Character Never to Win (thanks to newjak for compiling this list)

3) Spider-man:
With only one low-meta tourney completed you'd think Spiderman's blend of speed, strength, agility, and pre-cog that he could be combined with anyone with combat skill, weapons, or abilities to become an instant beast. Yet despite three to four exact Spiderman clones it was a combination with Venom that came out on top. Leaving Spiderman and his fans to wonder how.

2) Ironman:
The man in the Iron suit has had two completed tournies using him as the cut off point. Yet he has never be involved in a tourney win as well. Which some would think as odd considering the fact that he has possibly the tops or close to tops of each power allowed in those tourney. Not only that but his prep, and resourcefulness has almost guaranteed him that a scan exists that allows him to thrive in any situation, but sadly all these advantages still haven't translated to tourney victories. Leaving Ironman to drink away his tourney woes.

1) Juggernaut:
The Juggernaut has been drafted and competed in every herald level tourney. Why because he brings a unique characteristic that a bunch of people find appealing especially when mixing with other people. For one at the levels he has been drafted it should basically be said that he possess unlimited durability, stamina, and the ability to survive any environment. Along with his known ability to get to physically strong enough to crush the likes of Thor. Mixed with his connection to a large magical energy source and you have a pick that seemingly gives any possible team, or fusion character a huge advantage. The inability to be defeated through direct means. Yet no one has ever been able to take advantage of these things to produce a tourney championship for poor little ol' Cain Marko.


The Lists: Entry #5

Most Useful Characters in Tourney History

3 - Thor
Why: A herald+ tourney can't and hasn't happened without the son of Odin being drafted. And in each appearance he has performed admirably. One tourney win, and two other finals appearances. His combination of raw power and versatility is matches by few at any level.

2 - Hank Pym (Yellowjacket)
Why: This is probably a surprising entry, but there's a reason. Scoobless' clever tactic of being able to grow an infinite amount with Sasquatch and Moonstone (the only thing keeping Hank from growing as large as he wants is gravity, which is counter-acted with flight) was facilitated by Hank, and is the main reason he not only won but coasted to his most recent tourney win (IX).

1 - Silver Surfer
Why: Two tourney wins, three if you include his "Keeper" incarnation, at least one other finals appearance, and good showings in every tournament he's been in. Kid's a beast. Top tier energy wielder, speed, power, versatility, matter manipulation. There's not much to dislike here.


The Lists: Entry #6

Best Tourney Newcomer

3 - darthgoober (Tourney IX)
Why: This would seem odd because he's the only person on this list not to place in his tourney. But in just two short matches, goober gained the respect and fear of his opponents, and even currently he doesn't have too many matches to his credit but is considered among the elite of KMC's tourney regulars.

2 - DigiMark007 (Tourney III)
Why: I gained the notoriety in this tournament as both intelligent and respectful, and it is one of the main reasons I was nominated for moderator. My debating skills, at the time, were a bit under the elite (despite a 4th-place finish) but it gained me recognition of a different kind that has led to my influence as a mod on the forums.

1 - Blair Wind
Why: In his first tourney he entered one of the toughest fields in tourney history, came out on top. 'nuf said.

Using this to post our lists. I'm sure Newjak won't mind. Thanks.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Lists: Entry #7

This one will be broken into separate categories.

Most Creative Participant: Blair Wind
Why: He routinely sets the high-water mark for inventive strategies, is always a threat to win, and while some may complain that he finds "loopholes," others simply see it as finding what is the most powerful legal strategy in any given tournament.

Most Diligent Participant (Research): Darkcrawler
Why: In Ill's tourney, we were preparing a strategy but there was one very obscure scan that could have ruined the entire plan. I told leo, "If it were anyone else but DC, I wouldn't mind. But the fact that he's our opponent, and that scan exists, scares me." I wouldn't have had the same concern with anyone else on KMC.

Best In-Thread Debater: Scoobless
Why: Debating is highly subjective, so I can't honestly compare the merits of his debating with others. But his results speak for themselves. Four tourney wins, one runner-up, and (unofficially, since I've never kept track) the best win/loss ratio in KMC's history (including only people with multiple tourneys). He also, whether he knows it or not, is a blunt but effective instructor. I had writeup duties for our tournament together, but his suggestions, changes, and additions to our plans and my words were surprisingly enlightening and helped make me the debater I am today.


The Lists: Entry #8

"Best" Tournament Ideas

Criteria: "best" can mean one of two things. One, that it was functional and an intelligent step for tourneys to take. Or two, that it was revolutionary and inventive, taking tourneys in new directions.

3 - Judges
Why: Without judges, apathy and controversy were the norm. With them, subjectivity still exists, but with knowledgeable and thorough judging, each match has a more legitimate decision than our earliest tourneys. No one person is responsible for the advent of judging, but Dizzle/ScarletSpider's tourney was the first to implement it.

2 - Non-comic characters
Why: Some love it, others hate it. Some non-comic characters are surprising and powerful, others are too obscure to make an impact on matches. But it's undeniable that the 2-3 tourneys that have allowed non-comic characters have been made more interesting for it. From Jedi Knights and TV warriors, to book and anime characters, it's always a fun curveball. Again, it wasn't my idea but my first tourney as host (V) was the first to try it.

1 - Point-based drafting (Tourney XI. Evangel)
Why: Why not? No other tournament system could give you Dr. Strange and Flash on one team, and 15 powerless females on another (and Empath). Options including Galactus, Batman, and everything in between, as well as "purchases" like prep time, knowledge of the opponent, and various uber-powers make participants think about their plan like never before. The diversity of strategies, and the bevy of options, make this format the most wide-open of any tournament in KMC's history. No system is perfect, but Evangel's point-based tourney system gets points for originality and fun.


The Lists: Entry #9

Most Powerful Character

This is determined by 1-v-1 strength, and does not take into account tourney limitations or power meshes that the characters were a part of.

Honorable Mention: Despero

3 - The Doctor
Why: Almost anything with a mere thought? 'nuf said. He had some restrictions for the tourney he was drafted in, but sans limitations he's among the best.

2 - Classic Strange
Why: Arguably better feats than Odin when you take them in their entirety. A spell for any situation, and plenty of raw power.

1 - The Keeper
Why: A shared continuity with 616 Surfer means most of regular Surfer's feats are valid. That + Quantum Bands and thousands of years of experience, and you have the most powerful and versatile character ever in a tournament.


The Lists: Entry #10

Most Powerful For Their Tourney

3 - Classic Strange
Tourney: III (Herald Amalgam)
Why: Long pig rode Strange almost exclusively all the way to the finals in a tourney where he was clearly the best single pick.

2 - Blink
Tourney: IV (Modified Street Level Tourney)
Why: In what amounted to a Low Meta tournament, Blink had little business being there. Unfortunately for Khellendros, not many people knew about her at the time and spreading knowledge was problematic. The lack of exposure did him in.

1 - Grail
Tourney: IV (Modified Street Level Tourney)
Why: Same as Blink, only more so. Grail could probably sneak his way into some low herald tourneys nowadays, but no one knew who he was or what he was capable of. Maybe even Khell didn't know his limits, and he did have less showings back then than he currently does, so no one really knew what he would become.


The Lists: Entry #11

Best Amalgam

This will be based off of total power and/or potential, in relation to the tourney they were in. An amalgam need not have won their respective tourney to be considered.

3 - Grailnighter (Grail + Midnighter + Blink)
Khellendros, Tourney IV, Modified Street Amalgam Tourney
Why: See list #10. Grail and Blink were formidable picks on their own, and MN'er adds something to any power mesh.

2 - Bigfoot (Sasquatch + Hank Pym + Moonstone)
Scoobless, Tourney IX, High Meta Amalgam Tourney
Why: Scoobless pulled away from the competition in this one with the infinite growth tactic that he discovered when he combined Hank's growing with the anti-gravity of Moonstone's flight, augmented by Sasquatch's already-formidable strength. Moonstone added versatility as well, making this arguably the most dominant amalgam in tourney history.

1 - Flash Thordon (Wally West + Quasar + Thor)
Scoobless, Tourney III, Herald Amalgam Tourney
Why: There's not much to dislike. Cool name, raw power, versatility in spades between Mjolnir and Q-Bands, and unmatched super-speed. Wild prep strategies involving multiple characters in other tournaments may mean that various teams or tactics could beat him, but in a heads-up match, no single pick or amalgam in tourney history could defeat him.


The Lists: Entry #12

Best Amalgam Name

3 - (tie) Bigfoot/General Kinky
Why: Both of these are mine (though Bigfoot was for an amalgam of Scoob's), and I couldn't decide which one was more annoying to the general public. Thus, you get them both ( ). Bigfoot was, well, Bigfoot. The name's completely obvious, but also fits like a glove. General Kinky was a creative play on General Zod, Apollo (The Sun King) and Loki, thus General King-ki. Awful, I know. But that's why it's great. Also has some sexual innuendo because of Apollo.

2 - Dr. Shocktopus
Why: Because he's Dr. Shocktopus, damnit. Just hardcore bad-assery, which basically described shockto's originator (long pig).

1 - Flash Thordon
Why: Flash! AAAaaaahhhhhhhhhh! Savior of the universe! Has yet to be topped imo.

Originally posted by Newjak
Thy villainy doth steal my glory

And my biggest advice when going against a tourney vet. Don't hold back even if you think your guy has the advantage. It can comeback to haunt ya.

Have you come to offer your condoloences, for attacking my kingdom and killing my people ? !

....

That is all.

LET BATTLE BE JOINED AND MEAD BE HAD! dwarf

Sick concept Digi.

Originally posted by Faceman
Have you come to offer your condoloences, for attacking my kingdom and killing my people ? ! I say thee nay

In fact thy people will suffer vast sufferings at the hands of mighty newjak.

Juntai wins.

First let us honor the mighty fallen of yesteryear! Perennial bridesmaids Khellendros and long pig shall be the first to enter the ranks of The Honored Fallen. Such stalwart resilience (and in long pig's case, profanity-laced posts) were not to bear the fruits of victory.

Boasting three 2nd-place finishes between them, and other places besides, theirs is the bitterest nectar! Though gone from us, their legacy lives on. Drink up, brothers, and know that the noble fight was fought.

Khell's 2nd place finish: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331132
LP's first finals loss, at the hands of Scoobless: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=360606&highlight=title%3A%28scoobless%29
Again, by the blade of jinzin: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=376424

My favorite is the last one, because LP's "Dr. Shocktopus" was one of the cooler amalgam names ever. And the first one (Khell/Scoob) was pretty much the match that got me interested in tourneys, and also the first I ever voted in (for Khell, actually).

...

Also, my apologies for recent comments directed at TricksterPriest in the current tourney. I meant what I said, but always regret having to act in a negative way in what is otherwise a positive experience toward anyone. Trick may have been deluded in his ideas, but there's still some creativity to be admired in him, even if it didn't pan out.

Nah, I know I was going off the deep end. I forgive you. Like I said, I wanted to push the envelope.

and I'm the first person in tourney history to try for abstract level power.

I miss Long Pig.

Long pig was pimp. It's probably good he left before he got himself banned...I would've felt bad about it, and always thought he was a clever (though "forward" debater.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
and I'm the first person in tourney history to try for abstract level power.

You obviously haven't seen my writeup yet.



...well, not this upcoming one so much (poor Cresh ) but later ones.

And I tried for abstract power...the same way you did. I just got shot down a lot earlier. But I was going to be exploiting Asgardian stuff with my abstract-ness...Herald level beings inside The Destroyer with the Odin-Force and Rune Knowledge would've put a damper on anyone's tourney.



Alas, no such luck. I'll just have to settle for Skyfather+ power ( ).

My first tourney loss was to the dreaded Khellendros. He was as sneaking as the most cunning elves. Using his knowledge of the deepest and darkest of characters. He always forged interesting and often powerful amalgams.

Long Pig was the always the best of fellow warriors. He had good ideas and plans. I often liked him as a poster.

Perhaps one day their souls will echo these halls along with their great tales of valor.

Damn. Do I sound as stupid as newjak when I talk Asgardian?



...

I mean, um, thanks for sharing buddy.

But seriously, let's see...you've lost to Khell...what other tourneys have you been in? I was thinking about inducting you into the Hall at some point, but I'm not sure if your losses have been "crushing" enough.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Damn. Do I sound as stupid as newjak when I talk Asgardian?



...

I mean, um, thanks for sharing buddy.

But seriously, let's see...you've lost to Khell...what other tourneys have you been in? Yes you do sound as bad as me


Let's see I was in that street level tourney with Khell, which someone let him have Blink and Grail

I was in the Herald Partner Tourney with Blair in which we lost to Leo/Khan. Cause we drafted a prep team with only ten seconds of prep that boned us.

Then I was in the Ironman Level single tourney. Once again losing to Leo. Mostly because I held back a lot of my good stuff in fear of revealing too much my next week match against B-Dub that was stupid.

And that is it I think. Man I've had a lot of heartache

Originally posted by Newjak
Yes you do sound as bad as me

Noted. Maybe we can put the kibash on the Thor-speak. Why does he seem sweet when he does it?

Originally posted by Newjak
Let's see I was in that street level tourney with Khell, which someone let him have Blink and Grail

Whoever allowed those people should be beaten down.



And it was UPPER street. ...which would probably amount to Low Meta these days (our levels were less defined back then), but yeah they were still steals ( ).

Originally posted by Newjak
I was in the Herald Partner Tourney with Blair in which we lost to Leo/Khan. Cause we drafted a prep team with only ten seconds of prep that boned us.

Then I was in the Ironman Level single tourney. Once again losing to Leo. Mostly because I held back a lot of my good stuff in fear of revealing too much my next week match against B-Dub that was stupid.

And that is it I think. Man I've had a lot of heartache

Hmm...trying, yes, but nothing terribly soul-crushing. I'll keep you in mind.



And sorry about the prep thing, but I remember wanting people to debate their characters....not debate whatever omniversal prep strategy they had made.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Noted. Maybe we can put the kibash on the Thor-speak. Why does he seem sweet when he does it?



Whoever allowed those people should be beaten down.



And it was UPPER street. ...which would probably amount to Low Meta these days (our levels were less defined back then), but yeah they were still steals ( ).



Hmm...trying, yes, but nothing terribly soul-crushing. I'll keep you in mind.



And sorry about the prep thing, but I remember wanting people to debate their characters....not debate whatever omniversal prep strategy they had made. Cause he is Thor that's why.

And Blink and Grail seriously Khell with Blink alone should have walked the tourney.

Did I mention that my first tourney loss was at the Playboy mansion to a gayman

crazy One of you change your avvy!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
crazy One of you change your avvy! I say Thee Nay

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Noted. Maybe we can put the kibash on the Thor-speak. Why does he seem sweet when he does it?

he doesn't... its just that no-one has the balls to tell him so... ermm

Originally posted by Newjak
Cause he is Thor that's why.

And Blink and Grail seriously Khell with Blink alone should have walked the tourney.

Did I mention that my first tourney loss was at the Playboy mansion to a gayman

He should have. But no one knew anything about them, and judges traditionally fear the unknown. There's more general knowledge now, so obscure picks are safer than they once were, but I feel like Khell had the best team in at least 2 tourneys that he entered. His finals loss to Scoobless was lopsided due to the people he had, but no one had ever heard of them and it was in the pre-scans era. So going was tough for an indy comic fan.

Pre-scan tourneys compared to now is, in general, a gigantic difference. Scanners changed the way tourneys are debated in a massive way....for the better, no doubt, but the old days were amusing. That street tourney with Blink/Grail was actually probably the transition from barely any scans to a lot.

Originally posted by Raoul
he doesn't... its just that no-one has the balls to tell him so... ermm

Ah.

*childhood dream crushed*

teasing.

newjak is just crap at thor speak...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
He should have. But no one knew anything about them, and judges traditionally fear the unknown. There's more general knowledge now, so obscure picks are safer than they once were, but I feel like Khell had the best team in at least 2 tourneys that he entered. His finals loss to Scoobless was lopsided due to the people he had, but no one had ever heard of them and it was in the pre-scans era. So going was tough for an indy comic fan.

Pre-scan tourneys compared to now is, in general, a gigantic difference. Scanners changed the way tourneys are debated in a massive way....for the better, no doubt, but the old days were amusing. That street tourney with Blink/Grail was actually probably the transition from barely any scans to a lot.



Ah.

*childhood dream crushed*

Yeah I didn't use one scan in that tourney and somehow I managed to at one point have about half the votes before people changed their minds .

Don't let PR tell you that Digi.

It's not that no one has the balls to tell him. It's more the fact that Thor is the trend setter. Everything he does was cool.

Notice that when Thor speaks in Thor-speak all of Asgard, even Loki, speaks it. When he doesn't no one does.


Originally posted by Raoul


teasing.

newjak is just crap at thor speak... And of course this

Originally posted by Newjak
I say Thee Nay

Then have at thee, Asgardian!

Originally posted by long pig
Bow down to Shocktopus!
Now, get up! You sicken him!




http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4589/shocktopus1ft.png
"Don't be a retard, kids. Vote for Shocktopus!" -Shocktopus.

Classic LP.



Also, yeah, tourneys IV and V were where we gradually started using scans. By the end of tourney V and into VI they were the norm. Anything before that (I-IV) and you'd be lucky to see 2-3 in an entire match.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then have at thee, Asgardian! Have at Thee back, Chaos person-thingy-magig

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Classic LP.



Also, yeah, tourneys IV and V were where we gradually started using scans. By the end of tourney V and into VI they were the norm. Anything before that (I-IV) and you'd be lucky to see 2-3 in an entire match. They were fun to read though. That was also when there wasn't a post limit, man those things could just go back and forth.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Noted. Maybe we can put the kibash on the Thor-speak. Why does he seem sweet when he does it?

I say thee NAY!

This being no mere thread, but a HALL!

You say you wish to honor your "fallen"?

Then how so will you honor them with but a lazy tongue?

Nay....

Tails of valor and victory can only be told from the words of a warrior true!

Originally posted by jinzin
I say thee NAY!

This being no mere thread, but a HALL!

You say you wish to honor your "fallen"?

Then how so will you honor them with but a lazy tongue?

Nay....

Tails of valor and victory can only be told from the words of a warrior true!

Fair enough, noble friend. I shall try.

Also, jinzin is one of only 2 people ever to have an undefeated tourney record (TheKahn is the other). One tourney, one tourney win.

Congrats! Though that means you're never getting into the Hall ( ).

Originally posted by jinzin
I say thee NAY!

This being no mere thread, but a HALL!

You say you wish to honor your "fallen"?

Then how so will you honor them with but a lazy tongue?

Nay....

Tails of valor and victory can only be told from the words of a warrior true! How come when jinzin speaks like this he sounds cool.

When I do it I sound like a douche

Originally posted by Newjak
Have at Thee back, Chaos person-thingy-magig

So thou dost see fit to mock my family line? Ye and yours shall be driven to the very edge of Midgard and there cut down by my armies!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So thou dost see fit to mock my family line? Ye and yours shall be driven to the very edge of Midgard and there cut down by my armies! I Say Thee Nay

Have at theethor

Okay . . .

gun3


Bang.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Also, jinzin is one of only 2 people ever to have an undefeated tourney record (TheKahn is the other). One tourney, one tourney win.
Overall tourney, or matches only?

Technically, my record is currently undefeated.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Okay . . .

gun3


Bang. Ohz Noz a gun

Originally posted by Newjak
Ohz Noz a gun

Verily, I doth press 'pon any advantage.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Overall tourney, or matches only?

Technically, my record is currently undefeated.

You're in the middle of tourneys, so I'm obviously not including that. Among completed tourneys, however, only 2 people (jin and Kahn) retired undefeated...because they won the only tourney they entered, then stopped. You'd have to win all 3 of your current ones to qualify.

...

Other news:

I'm going to try and do some fun analysis of various tourney aspects. Hardest tourney to win (relative to the debating skill and drafts in the tourney), easiest to win, most powerful single tourney character(s) ever (undoubtedly amalgams), best team or amalgam name, best debaters, most diligent with research, etc.

Could be fun. Any other suggestions for categories I should make?

...

Inductions

Loot (formerly Norrin Radd) won the first ever KMC tourney, but is being honered is our hall for his noble efforts in tourney VII. He faced the dred beast Scoobless, slayer of mortals, no less than 3 times, and despites losses in the first two, fought until his dying breath. Truly, such courgae in the face of an insurmountable foe is to be honered!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
You're in the middle of tourneys, so I'm obviously not including that. Among completed tourneys, however, only 2 people (jin and Kahn) retired undefeated...because they won the only tourney they entered, then stopped. You'd have to win all 3 of your current ones to qualify.
3 at once... all together... at the same time... in completely different fields of power...

Can I get points for trying? laughcry

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
3 at once... all together... at the same time... in completely different fields of power...

Can I get points for trying? laughcry

Sure. I guess.

Smurph: 2 points!


















everyone else: 3

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Verily, I doth press 'pon any advantage. I doth prepare for such underhanded tactics by thee coward by strength to shake the very heavens itself..

nuke

Originally posted by DigiMark007
2 - All are welcome. But "The Honored Fallen" will be arbitrarily selected by me as people who have suffered crushing defeats in tourney matches that were hard-fought. It is intended to mirror the Hall of Asgard where fallen warriors drink mead, tell glorious stories, and await the final battle.
Sounds like my match with you and Scoobs...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sounds like my match with you and Scoobs...

We would've had to have been trying for it to be an epic loss.



Lose to me in Evangel's tourney....twice?....and we'll talk. If you want that spot in the Hall bad enough, you're going to have to show me that you deserve it. Now go copy an old DevilHulk post and use it as your writeup for our match.

313

Originally posted by DigiMark007
You're in the middle of tourneys, so I'm obviously not including that. Among completed tourneys, however, only 2 people (jin and Kahn) retired undefeated...because they won the only tourney they entered, then stopped. You'd have to win all 3 of your current ones to qualify.

...

Other news:

I'm going to try and do some fun analysis of various tourney aspects. Hardest tourney to win (relative to the debating skill and drafts in the tourney), easiest to win, most powerful single tourney character(s) ever (undoubtedly amalgams), best team or amalgam name, best debaters, most diligent with research, etc.

Could be fun. Any other suggestions for categories I should make?

...

Inductions

Loot (formerly Norrin Radd) won the first ever KMC tourney, but is being honered is our hall for his noble efforts in tourney VII. He faced the dred beast Scoobless, slayer of mortals, no less than 3 times, and despites losses in the first two, fought until his dying breath. Truly, such courgae in the face of an insurmountable foe is to be honered!

Most insane strategy or failing that, worst tourney BS.

Best potential idea.

Worst prep ever.

Most obscure choices.

Historic moments like first anime character used, etc.

Thanks for the ideas Trick. I'll try to work them in.

The Lists: Entry #1

"Hardest/easiest tournament" uses the following criteria: If an average debater from today were to enter each tourney, how hard/easy would it be for them to win? It does take into account era, so it is assumed that no scans would be allowed in the early tournaments (I-III or IV), even for our hypothetical modern participant.

Hardest Tournament:

3 - Iron Man Team Tournament (V) (Winner: Blair Wind)
Why: It was the tournament where the "old guard" vets seemed to meet the newest debaters of the current generation. There were precious few easy-outs, even in a 16 man tourney. Scan-heavy posts also made the scene for the first time, making it a rough transition for some.

2 - Herald Team Tournament (VI) (Winners: Leo and Kahn)
Why: Very little prep put an emphasis on character debating more than any tourney in the modern era, and partner tournaments are always a shade tougher because you have to coordinate plans with our partner and also make sure both partners are dedicated enough to win.

1 - Under Thanos Team Tourney (VIII) (Winners: Darkcrawler and Blair)
Why: Competition. There was one team that was a pushover, then every other team in the whole tourney was not only strong but a threat to win it all. Many felt that the best team, bran and goober with Adaptoid, Despero, and Earth X Absorbing Man, was actually the best in the tourney. And they lost in the semis. Not that crazy plans hadn't happened until this point (they had) but "prep time" took on a whole new meaning as teams went from a groups of herald types to Skyfather-busting meshes and beyond. And the finals match probably had more tourney experience in it than any match before or since, and was decided 3-2 by a hair's length.

...

Differing opinions? Thoughts?

I figure NJ's and Hawkeyes's current one has a chance to take a spot in the top 3 due to the list of vets involved in it, but the current ones are still under evaluation, and at least ill's tourney had a few too many dropouts to be considered as cutthroat as these others.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thanks for the ideas Trick. I'll try to work them in.

The Lists: Entry #1

"Hardest/easiest tournament" uses the following criteria: If an average debater from today were to enter each tourney, how hard/easy would it be for them to win? It does take into account era, so it is assumed that no scans would be allowed in the early tournaments (I-III or IV), even for our hypothetical modern participant.

Hardest Tournament:

3 - Iron Man Team Tournament (V) (Winner: Blair Wind)
Why: It was the tournament where the "old guard" vets seemed to meet the newest debaters of the current generation. There were precious few easy-outs, even in a 16 man tourney. Scan-heavy posts also made the scene for the first time, making it a rough transition for some.

2 - Herald Team Tournament (VI) (Winners: Leo and Kahn)
Why: Very little prep put an emphasis on character debating more than any tourney in the modern era, and partner tournaments are always a shade tougher because you have to coordinate plans with our partner and also make sure both partners are dedicated enough to win.

1 - Under Thanos Team Tourney (VIII) (Winners: Darkcrawler and Blair)
Why: Competition. There was one team that was a pushover, then every other team in the whole tourney was not only strong but a threat to win it all. Many felt that the best team, bran and goober with Adaptoid, Despero, and Earth X Absorbing Man, was actually the best in the tourney. And they lost in the semis. Not that crazy plans hadn't happened until this point (they had) but "prep time" took on a whole new meaning as teams went from a groups of herald types to Skyfather-busting meshes and beyond. And the finals match probably had more tourney experience in it than any match before or since, and was decided 3-2 by a hair's length.

...

Differing opinions? Thoughts?

I figure NJ's and Hawkeyes's current one has a chance to take a spot in the top 3 due to the list of vets involved in it, but the current ones are still under evaluation, and at least ill's tourney had a few too many dropouts to be considered as cutthroat as these others.

I agree with these

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thanks for the ideas Trick. I'll try to work them in.

The Lists: Entry #1

"Hardest/easiest tournament" uses the following criteria: If an average debater from today were to enter each tourney, how hard/easy would it be for them to win? It does take into account era, so it is assumed that no scans would be allowed in the early tournaments (I-III or IV), even for our hypothetical modern participant.

Hardest Tournament:

3 - Iron Man Team Tournament (V) (Winner: Blair Wind)
Why: It was the tournament where the "old guard" vets seemed to meet the newest debaters of the current generation. There were precious few easy-outs, even in a 16 man tourney. Scan-heavy posts also made the scene for the first time, making it a rough transition for some.

2 - Herald Team Tournament (VI) (Winners: Leo and Kahn)
Why: Very little prep put an emphasis on character debating more than any tourney in the modern era, and partner tournaments are always a shade tougher because you have to coordinate plans with our partner and also make sure both partners are dedicated enough to win.

1 - Under Thanos Team Tourney (VIII) (Winners: Darkcrawler and Blair)
Why: Competition. There was one team that was a pushover, then every other team in the whole tourney was not only strong but a threat to win it all. Many felt that the best team, bran and goober with Adaptoid, Despero, and Earth X Absorbing Man, was actually the best in the tourney. And they lost in the semis. Not that crazy plans hadn't happened until this point (they had) but "prep time" took on a whole new meaning as teams went from a groups of herald types to Skyfather-busting meshes and beyond. And the finals match probably had more tourney experience in it than any match before or since, and was decided 3-2 by a hair's length.

...

Differing opinions? Thoughts?

I figure NJ's and Hawkeyes's current one has a chance to take a spot in the top 3 due to the list of vets involved in it, but the current ones are still under evaluation, and at least ill's tourney had a few too many dropouts to be considered as cutthroat as these others.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Could be fun. Any other suggestions for categories I should make?


Best bullshitter!

I like how Trick brings up things where his name might get mentioned...

You might as well put:
Person who ruined the best potential tournament before it started.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
1 - Under Thanos Team Tourney (VIII) (Winners: Darkcrawler and Blair)
Why: Competition. There was one team that was a pushover, then every other team in the whole tourney was not only strong but a threat to win it all. Many felt that the best team, bran and goober with Adaptoid, Despero, and Earth X Absorbing Man, was actually the best in the tourney. And they lost in the semis. Not that crazy plans hadn't happened until this point (they had) but "prep time" took on a whole new meaning as teams went from a groups of herald types to Skyfather-busting meshes and beyond. And the finals match probably had more tourney experience in it than any match before or since, and was decided 3-2 by a hair's length.
That's because I had to drop out... disgust

Glad you guys approve for the most part. ALL tourneys are tough, but those stand out to me.

I'll make more as I can.

Originally posted by jinzin
Best bullshitter!

Hehe...I don't know if I want to get overtly negative with the lists. It'll probably be a lot less controversial topics. But I'll keep it in the back of my head in case there's just 2-3 people that absolutely need recognition for BSing.

I remember Vsing Digi in that tourney...

I vaguely remember Souja trying to make Juggernaut a giant conductor,and we tried burying Thor in a hole with him.


Good times

Speaking of the most humiliating losses...

Someone say it, so I don't have to...

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I remember Vsing Digi in that tourney...

I vaguely remember Souja trying to make Juggernaut a giant conductor,and we tried burying Thor in a hole with him.


Good times

The other participants enjoyed our match for whatever reason....I was overly harsh with Souja a few times and I think they thought it was funny. Your team was fine but you had no way of making Juggernaut mobile. We just left him on the ground, and you guys resorted to saying he'd jump up and down at us.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Any other suggestions for categories I should make?Most/Least successful use of a highly obscure character.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sounds like my match with you and Scoobs...
You totally should have won that.

BTW, Illadelph's should get some kind of mention as the worst judging in tourney history.

Originally posted by King Kandy
You totally should have won that.

BTW, Illadelph's should get some kind of mention as the worst judging in tourney history.

Keep the bashing out of the thread Kandy.

And regardless of whether you agree with his decisions, ill reads the entire fight and provides reasoned opinions for his judgments. I may not agree with every decision from ANY judge, but that's all one can ask of potential judges.

No, not the quality of the judging, the quantity. As in, the inability to get enough judges to judge the matches. The Judges themselves were superb.

I'm sorry if I said that wrong, I didn't mean the decisions were bad.

Also,do i win most crushing defeat?

Maybe. It was pretty funny the way your amalgam didn't work at all in Goober's tourney.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Also,do i win most crushing defeat? You should...

Oh, then co-signed. Though some isn't his fault. Apparently some judges that were initially confirmed either didn't show or had to drop out for different reasons. Not a total excuse, but something, since I can vouch for how hard it is to get consistent judges for a whole tourney.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Also,do i win most crushing defeat?

Against who, us? Probably not, since it was round 1, but that would be a fun list to make.

Trickerpriest.


i want some consolation for that shitfest

I know you don't wanna but you gotta honor the bad as well as the good.

So what I want to know is worst Amalgam for any particular tourney.


My nomination would JP's spiderman level.

The Lists: Entry #2

Most Crushing Loss

3 - illadelph12 vs. Blair Wind (Tourney V)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=391348&pagenumber=1
Illadelph took the loss hard, and rightly so, because it was an incredibly hard fought match on both sides.

2 - Khellendros vs. Scoobless (Tourney II)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331132
...this was Khell's closest and best chance at a tourney win. He was initially up in the poll only to be overtaken late.

1 - Scoob/Digi vs. Blair/DC (Tourney VIII)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t442032.html
...sorry to make myself #1 here, but it really was. Blair and Scoob had their tourney wins already, but DC and I had a lot riding on it. With the judges locked 2-2, and both plans at feverishly ludicrous levels, both teams threw out last-second arguments to try to swing the last judge to their side. And a week after the tourney, Scoob and I happened upon a scan that may have countered their main point against our prep.

...

Strangely, with mine, there's no real heartbreak. It was loads of fun, and I feel like they deserved the win. Still, as losses go, it's about as close as it gets.

Originally posted by Newjak
I know you don't wanna but you gotta honor the bad as well as the good.

So what I want to know is worst Amalgam for any particular tourney.


My nomination would JP's spiderman level.

We'll get to them eventually. I'd rather do the good first though. No rush.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Trickerpriest.


i want some consolation for that shitfest

Here's your three,a unanimous loss to Tricker..

Found a decent #3

That loss to Blair that ill is always complaining about ( to ill).

But it WAS a war.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=391348&pagenumber=1

I'll edit it in to the earlier post.

MM vs Trickster
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9062205

MM hasn't been the same since...

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
MM vs Trickter
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9062205

MM hasn't been the same since...

You shut your filthy whore mouth!!

Brief update on list of Hall inductees:

Khellendros
Long Pig
Loot (Norrin Radd)

And our newest addition: Krissy Von Doom! The most prolific female in tourney history, KVD boasts 6 tourney entries. Her valor was great, though the results were mixed. Without an official tally, I think she can claim at least one semis appearance, and numerous early-round victories. Still, for setting a high water mark in the early history of KMC tournaments, she is inducted for her dedication through troubled waters.

The Lists: Entry #3

Easiest Tourney (same criteria as Hardest)

Please note: "easiest" does not mean "worst" as there is a lot to be said for all of these tournaments listed below. This is simply an assessment of the difficulty in winning each one.

3 - Evangel's 2nd Multi-Level Tourney (VI)
Why: We weren't always so able to field multiple tourneys at one time, and Scoobless was able to use his experience in past tourneys to best a comparatively weak field (some good debaters, but many were very new to tourneys), because it took place during the same time as V, which consumed the time of many tourney vets.

2 - Low Meta Team Amalgam (X)
Why: Ill's current tourney boasts excellent debaters and powerful strategies, but has suffered from people dropping out. Regardless of the competition level, when showing up assures a team of a spot in the semis, the odds are more in a team's favor than most tourneys.

1 - KMC's First Multi-Level Tourney (I)
Why: Not a testament to the participants or tourney itself, which pioneered the idea of tourneys here on KMC, but it's just an undeniable fact that the quality of tournaments has improved drastically. The first tournament was groping in the dark with strategies and rules, so it's to be commended for setting the base for future tourneys, but one cannot look at it today and not see how the knowledge of the forums has increased monumentally.

You know what I'm gonna promote one of my matches..

Me and BW's match against Leo/Khan.

Our Match was considered to be the actual championship of the tourney and it was hard fought.

Originally posted by Newjak
You know what I'm gonna promote one of my matches..

Me and BW's match against Leo/Khan.

Our Match was considered to be the actual championship of the tourney and it was hard fought.

Actually, that's a really good nomination. I'll give it some thought.

And i yet,i get diddley squat?


Rascist.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Actually, that's a really good nomination. I'll give it some thought. I only bring the best

I would also like to nominate a category for the best picks that have never won a tourney.

You know those picks that should be for all purposes great picks but for some reason people can not seem to get that elusive win with them.

Do I get an award for anything?

Entity once didn't show up to face me, and then I didn't show up to face the guy who replaced Entity... I think that's some sort of unique occurance.

Originally posted by Newjak
I only bring the best

I would also like to nominate a category for the best picks that have never won a tourney.

You know those picks that should be for all purposes great picks but for some reason people can not seem to get that elusive win with them.

A lot of those types of things would be especially hard, because I don't have a full list of every draft pick, amalgam, etc. Just the winning team, and whatever else I happen to remember. To do that there'd be a lot more tracking down to do.

So a good idea, and you can even do it if you want, but I'll be doing "easier" categories first.

...

To MM and Kandy: Probably not guys. Just not newsworthy stuff. I feel like JJJ telling Parker to bring him better pics or something.

Originally posted by Newjak
You know those picks that should be for all purposes great picks but for some reason people can not seem to get that elusive win with them.
I think I could win that, a lot of people in Darthgoober's tourney were saying I had the best Amalgam.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
To MM and Kandy: Probably not guys. Just not newsworthy stuff. I feel like JJJ telling Parker to bring him better pics or something.



My loss was brought up for months afterwards,and is still used as an insult.

i demand recompence!!!

I think you should make the categories:

Most Ambitious Tourney
Best Tourney Newcomer
Best Tourney Sigs
Most revolutionary tourney ideas

Also include a link to the respect thread.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
A lot of those types of things would be especially hard, because I don't have a full list of every draft pick, amalgam, etc. Just the winning team, and whatever else I happen to remember. To do that there'd be a lot more tracking down to do.

So a good idea, and you can even do it if you want, but I'll be doing "easier" categories first.

...

To MM and Kandy: Probably not guys. Just not newsworthy stuff. I feel like JJJ telling Parker to bring him better pics or something.

Alright I'll make a quick list of people I know should do well.

All good ideas Smurph. Thanks.

And have fun nj.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
"prep time" took on a whole new meaning as teams went from a groups of herald types to Skyfather-busting meshes and beyond.
I just want to point out that this is technically not true given power-meshing was capped at Odin level.

Oh hey, you know what I could win? I think I have had the most opponents not show up to face me.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
All good ideas Smurph. Thanks.

And have fun nj. Alright here is my quick three person list


3) Spider-man:
With only one low-meta tourney completed you'd think Spiderman's blend of speed, strength, agility, and pre-cog that he could be combined with anyone with combat skill, weapons, or abilities to become an instant beast. Yet despite three to four exact Spiderman clones it was a combination with Venom that came out on top. Leaving Spiderman and his fans to wonder how.


2) Ironman:
The man in the Iron suit has had two completed tournies using him as the cut off point. Yet he has never be involved in a tourney win as well. Which some would think as odd considering the fact that he has possibly the tops or close to tops of each power allowed in those tourney. Not only that but his prep, and resourcefulness has almost guaranteed him that a scan exists that allows him to thrive in any situation, but sadly all these advantages still haven't translated to tourney victories. Leaving Ironman to drink away his tourney woes.


1) Juggernaut:

The Juggernaut has been drafted and competed in every herald level tourney. Why because he brings a unique characteristic that a bunch of people find appealing especially when mixing with other people. For one at the levels he has been drafted it should basically be said that he possess unlimited durability, stamina, and the ability to survive any environment. Along with his known ability to get to physically strong enough to crush the likes of Thor. Mixed with his connection to a large magical energy source and you have a pick that seemingly gives any possible team, or fusion character a huge advantage. The inability to be defeated through direct means. Yet no one has ever been able to take advantage of these things to produce a tourney championship for poor little ol' Cain Marko.

Another one is Silver Surfer, everyone always chooses him but I don't think he's had any wins.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Another one is Silver Surfer, everyone always chooses him but I don't think he's had any wins.

He has 2.



Originally posted by King Kandy
I just want to point out that this is technically not true given power-meshing was capped at Odin level.

Ah, right. Forgot about that. Anyway, still crazy prep stuff.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Another one is Silver Surfer, everyone always chooses him but I don't think he's had any wins. Yeah he has won two tournies.

The Lists: Entry #5

Most Useful Characters in Tourney History

3 - Thor
Why: A herald+ tourney can't and hasn't happened without the son of Odin being drafted. And in each appearance he has performed admirably. One tourney win, and two other finals appearances. His combination of raw power and versatility is matches by few at any level.

2 - Hank Pym (Yellowjacket)
Why: This is probably a surprising entry, but there's a reason. Scoobless' clever tactic of being able to grow an infinite amount with Sasquatch and Moonstone (the only thing keeping Hank from growing as large as he wants is gravity, which is counter-acted with flight) was facilitated by Hank, and is the main reason he not only won but coasted to his most recent tourney win (IX).

1 - Silver Surfer
Why: Two tourney wins, three if you include his "Keeper" incarnation, at least one other finals appearance, and good showings in every tournament he's been in. Kid's a beast. Top tier energy wielder, speed, power, versatility, matter manipulation. There's not much to dislike here.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
2 - Hank Pym (Yellowjacket)
Why: This is probably a surprising entry, but there's a reason. Scoobless' clever tactic of being able to grow an infinite amount with Sasquatch and Moonstone (the only thing keeping Hank from growing as large as he wants is gravity, which is counter-acted with flight) was facilitated by Hank, and is the main reason he not only won but coasted to his most recent tourney win (IX).

i love the fact that hank is so commonly used, the guy deserves all the respect he gets imo...

Wait, so even though Yellow Jacket's only won one tourney he's up there? Then Dr. Strange should get a mention for pretty much carrying LP to the finals.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Wait, so even though Yellow Jacket's only won one tourney he's up there? Then Dr. Strange should get a mention for pretty much carrying LP to the finals.

Strange has never won a tourney. Sure, he carried lp, just like Majestic carried Khell in that tourney, but a lot of people rode a good pick then didn't finish the job.

Originally posted by Raoul
i love the fact that hank is so commonly used, the guy deserves all the respect he gets imo... Well he has a very useful power

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Strange has never won a tourney. Sure, he carried lp, just like Majestic carried Khell in that tourney, but a lot of people rode a good pick then didn't finish the job. Dr. Strange was another person I was considering for my list.

But considering that Dr. Fate was also in that tourney was probably the reason he didn't nudge out Spider-man.

I'm sure everyone knows about it, but here's the link to the respect thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t443343.html

Anyway...

The Lists: Entry #6

Best Tourney Newcomer

3 - darthgoober (Tourney IX)
Why: This would seem odd because he's the only person on this list not to place in his tourney. But in just two short matches, goober gained the respect and fear of his opponents, and even currently he doesn't have too many matches to his credit but is considered among the elite of KMC's tourney regulars.

2 - DigiMark007 (Tourney III)
Why: I gained the notoriety in this tournament as both intelligent and respectful, and it is one of the main reasons I was nominated for moderator. My debating skills, at the time, were a bit under the elite (despite a 4th-place finish) but it gained me recognition of a different kind that has led to my influence as a mod on the forums.

1 - Blair Wind
Why: In his first tourney he entered one of the toughest fields in tourney history, came out on top. 'nuf said.

If I win my three tournies, I claim a spot on that list.

Just calling it now.

I mean, so far I've solo'd Digi, Leo, Blair, Akuki (3), Kandy(3), Charlotte(3), DC, Batdude and Tony Stark.

Though Paul was helping for the last few in Delph's. Which was clearly the hardest tourney... ever.

But, I'll shut up now. I just had a startling, horrible thought that I sound like Kandy, rambling on about myself.

Originally posted by Newjak
Well he has a very useful power

no... really?

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
If I win my three tournies, I claim a spot on that list.

Just calling it now. Wait are these your first tournies?

In that case I would nominate you for number 1 on that list.

Originally posted by Raoul
no... really? And people say size doesn't matter

Originally posted by Newjak
And people say size doesn't matter

it doesn't, its what you do with it that counts...

Originally posted by Newjak
Wait are these your first tournies? Well, Delph's is/was, but it isn't over yet.

So I guess you could say that, yes.

Originally posted by Raoul
it doesn't, its what you do with it that counts... Touche hmm


Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Well, Delph's is/was, but it isn't over yet.

So I guess you could say that, yes. Cool then yeah if you win all three you should be number one

Originally posted by DigiMark007
All good ideas Smurph. Thanks.

And have fun nj.

Best tourney upsets...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Fair enough, noble friend. I shall try.

Also, jinzin is one of only 2 people ever to have an undefeated tourney record (TheKahn is the other). One tourney, one tourney win.

Congrats! Though that means you're never getting into the Hall ( ).

Are you baiting me old friend?

Aye!

Verily, tis true! I fear that my fighting days are long behind me. Scattered like sands to the winds of time and almost as forgotten.

I being but a STREET wondering vagabond, have no place in the heavens, meddling in the affairs of gods, myths, and creatures most foul.

Perhaps I'll one day lift my sword once more and take arms against my enemy, for every true warrior must fall a warriors noble death.

Lulz at jin. We don't seem to like street tourneys much, but if I had my way we'd have more of them (sans prep, too, since the current "low meta" tourney is anything but because of the outlandish prep strategies).

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
If I win my three tournies, I claim a spot on that list.

Just calling it now.

I mean, so far I've solo'd Digi, Leo, Blair, Akuki (3), Kandy(3), Charlotte(3), DC, Batdude and Tony Stark.

Though Paul was helping for the last few in Delph's. Which was clearly the hardest tourney... ever.

But, I'll shut up now. I just had a startling, horrible thought that I sound like Kandy, rambling on about myself.

Our match didn't matter by that point, since the semis were already set. If you'll notice, we farted into the posting box and called it a writeup.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Lulz at jin. We don't seem to like street tourneys much, but if I had my way we'd have more of them (sans prep, too, since the current "low meta" tourney is anything but because of the outlandish prep strategies).



Our match didn't matter by that point, since the semis were already set. If you'll notice, we farted into the posting box and called it a writeup.




I demand links!

Update of all lists (so we don't lose them on earlier pages):

List of "Hall of the Honored Fallen" Inductees:
Khellendros, Long Pig, Krissy Von Doom (KVD), Loot (Norrin Radd)

Respect Thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t443343.html

The Lists: Entry #1

"Hardest/easiest tournament" uses the following criteria: If an average debater from today were to enter each tourney, how hard/easy would it be for them to win? It does take into account era, so it is assumed that no scans would be allowed in the early tournaments (I-III or IV), even for our hypothetical modern participant.

Hardest Tournament:

3 - Iron Man Team Tournament (V) (Winner: Blair Wind)
Why: It was the tournament where the "old guard" vets seemed to meet the newest debaters of the current generation. There were precious few easy-outs, even in a 16 man tourney. Scan-heavy posts also made the scene for the first time, making it a rough transition for some.

2 - Herald Team Tournament (VI) (Winners: Leo and Kahn)
Why: Very little prep put an emphasis on character debating more than any tourney in the modern era, and partner tournaments are always a shade tougher because you have to coordinate plans with our partner and also make sure both partners are dedicated enough to win.

1 - Under Thanos Team Tourney (VIII) (Winners: Darkcrawler and Blair)
Why: Competition. There was one team that was a pushover, then every other team in the whole tourney was not only strong but a threat to win it all. Many felt that the best team, bran and goober with Adaptoid, Despero, and Earth X Absorbing Man, was actually the best in the tourney. And they lost in the semis. Not that crazy plans hadn't happened until this point (they had) but "prep time" took on a whole new meaning as teams went from a groups of herald types to Skyfather-busting meshes and beyond. And the finals match probably had more tourney experience in it than any match before or since, and was decided 3-2 by a hair's length.

The Lists: Entry #2

Most Crushing Loss

3 - illadelph12 vs. Blair Wind (Tourney V)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=391348&pagenumber=1
Illadelph took the loss hard, and rightly so, because it was an incredibly hard fought match on both sides.

2 - Khellendros vs. Scoobless (Tourney II)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331132
...this was Khell's closest and best chance at a tourney win. He was initially up in the poll only to be overtaken late.

1 - Scoob/Digi vs. Blair/DC (Tourney VIII)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t442032.html
...sorry to make myself #1 here, but it really was. Blair and Scoob had their tourney wins already, but DC and I had a lot riding on it. With the judges locked 2-2, and both plans at feverishly ludicrous levels, both teams threw out last-second arguments to try to swing the last judge to their side. And a week after the tourney, Scoob and I happened upon a scan that may have countered their main point against our prep.

The Lists: Entry #3

Easiest Tourney (same criteria as Hardest)

Please note: "easiest" does not mean "worst" as there is a lot to be said for all of these tournaments listed below. This is simply an assessment of the difficulty in winning each one.

3 - Evangel's 2nd Multi-Level Tourney (VII)
Why: We weren't always so able to field multiple tourneys at one time, and Scoobless was able to use his experience in past tourneys to best a comparatively weak field (some good debaters, but many were very new to tourneys), because it took place at the same time as another tourney (VIII), which had already siphoned away many of KMC's elite at the time.

2 - Low Meta Team Amalgam (X)
Why: Ill's current tourney boasts excellent debaters and powerful strategies, but has suffered from people dropping out. Regardless of the competition level, when showing up assures a team of a spot in the semis, the odds are more in a team's favor than most tourneys.

1 - KMC's First Multi-Level Tourney (I)
Why: Not a testament to the participants or tourney itself, which pioneered the idea of tourneys here on KMC, but it's just an undeniable fact that the quality of tournaments has improved drastically. The first tournament was groping in the dark with strategies and rules, so it's to be commended for setting the base for future tourneys, but one cannot look at it today and not see how the knowledge of the forums has increased monumentally.

The Lists: Entry #4

Best Character Never to Win (thanks to newjak for compiling this list)

3) Spider-man:
With only one low-meta tourney completed you'd think Spiderman's blend of speed, strength, agility, and pre-cog that he could be combined with anyone with combat skill, weapons, or abilities to become an instant beast. Yet despite three to four exact Spiderman clones it was a combination with Venom that came out on top. Leaving Spiderman and his fans to wonder how.

2) Ironman:
The man in the Iron suit has had two completed tournies using him as the cut off point. Yet he has never be involved in a tourney win as well. Which some would think as odd considering the fact that he has possibly the tops or close to tops of each power allowed in those tourney. Not only that but his prep, and resourcefulness has almost guaranteed him that a scan exists that allows him to thrive in any situation, but sadly all these advantages still haven't translated to tourney victories. Leaving Ironman to drink away his tourney woes.

1) Juggernaut:
The Juggernaut has been drafted and competed in every herald level tourney. Why because he brings a unique characteristic that a bunch of people find appealing especially when mixing with other people. For one at the levels he has been drafted it should basically be said that he possess unlimited durability, stamina, and the ability to survive any environment. Along with his known ability to get to physically strong enough to crush the likes of Thor. Mixed with his connection to a large magical energy source and you have a pick that seemingly gives any possible team, or fusion character a huge advantage. The inability to be defeated through direct means. Yet no one has ever been able to take advantage of these things to produce a tourney championship for poor little ol' Cain Marko.

The Lists: Entry #5

Most Useful Characters in Tourney History

3 - Thor
Why: A herald+ tourney can't and hasn't happened without the son of Odin being drafted. And in each appearance he has performed admirably. One tourney win, and two other finals appearances. His combination of raw power and versatility is matches by few at any level.

2 - Hank Pym (Yellowjacket)
Why: This is probably a surprising entry, but there's a reason. Scoobless' clever tactic of being able to grow an infinite amount with Sasquatch and Moonstone (the only thing keeping Hank from growing as large as he wants is gravity, which is counter-acted with flight) was facilitated by Hank, and is the main reason he not only won but coasted to his most recent tourney win (IX).

1 - Silver Surfer
Why: Two tourney wins, three if you include his "Keeper" incarnation, at least one other finals appearance, and good showings in every tournament he's been in. Kid's a beast. Top tier energy wielder, speed, power, versatility, matter manipulation. There's not much to dislike here.

The Lists: Entry #6

Best Tourney Newcomer

3 - darthgoober (Tourney IX)
Why: This would seem odd because he's the only person on this list not to place in his tourney. But in just two short matches, goober gained the respect and fear of his opponents, and even currently he doesn't have too many matches to his credit but is considered among the elite of KMC's tourney regulars.

2 - DigiMark007 (Tourney III)
Why: I gained the notoriety in this tournament as both intelligent and respectful, and it is one of the main reasons I was nominated for moderator. My debating skills, at the time, were a bit under the elite (despite a 4th-place finish) but it gained me recognition of a different kind that has led to my influence as a mod on the forums.

1 - Blair Wind
Why: In his first tourney he entered one of the toughest fields in tourney history, came out on top. 'nuf said.

Hey Evangels tourney did not take place at the same time as V it took place during Batdude's. I remember they got started at the same time.

Originally posted by jinzin

I demand links!

Here's the match with Smurph: http://houseofzod.yuku.com/topic/387/t/Week-5-Team-Leo-Vs-Team-Smurph.html

By comparison, here's what a normal writeup looks like for us when we, ya know, care about the outcome:
http://houseofzod.yuku.com/topic/408/t/Semifinals-2-Team-B-Dub-Vs-3-Team-Leo-2-of-3.html

Smurph is a really good competitor, don't get me wrong, but he has a ways to go before "best tourney newcomer" will apply. In our match, he pulled out a lot of stops to beat us, and we were content to lose while we planned for the semis.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Hey Evangels tourney did not take place at the same time as V it took place during Batdude's. I remember they got started at the same time.

Ah, thanks. Same difference, but I'll change it in the post there.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Though Paul was helping for the last few in Delph's. Which was clearly the hardest tourney... ever.

aye...

Originally posted by Newjak
Touche hmm


Cool then yeah if you win all three you should be number one

Originally posted by jinzin
Are you baiting me old friend?

Aye!

Verily, tis true! I fear that my fighting days are long behind me. Scattered like sands to the winds of time and almost as forgotten.

I being but a STREET wondering vagabond, have no place in the heavens, meddling in the affairs of gods, myths, and creatures most foul.

Perhaps I'll one day lift my sword once more and take arms against my enemy, for every true warrior must fall a warriors noble death. I'm hosting a tourney after the current ones are done. I would like if you would compete in it. 313

What sort of tourney is it going to be?

No future tourney discussion in here guys. Let's finish the 3 we have currently before we worry about more.

I think the Kahn/leo vs. Batdude/DC match is pretty underrated. Also, it was my very first tourney match.

Originally posted by batdude123
I think the Kahn/leo vs. Batdude/DC match is pretty underrated. Also, it was my very first tourney match.

Yeah, leo/Kahn had a tough road the entire time in that tourney, and you guys put up a good fight. That's part of the reason it's on the hardest tourney list.

Actually though, DC was the only person in that match with prior tourney experience. Leo's been around since near the beginning but that was his first tourney too.

Still, I found the concept of their win a little funny. It had nothing to do with them having more powerful characters than us (which they did), but rather their strategy.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
No future tourney discussion in here guys. Let's finish the 3 we have currently before we worry about more. Wow...

I just got blocked

The Lists: Entry #7

This one will be broken into separate categories.

Most Creative Participant: Blair Wind
Why: He routinely sets the high-water mark for inventive strategies, is always a threat to win, and while some may complain that he finds "loopholes," others simply see it as finding what is the most powerful legal strategy in any given tournament.

Most Diligent Participant (Research): Darkcrawler
Why: In Ill's tourney, we were preparing a strategy but there was one very obscure scan that could have ruined the entire plan. I told leo, "If it were anyone else but DC, I wouldn't mind. But the fact that he's our opponent, and that scan exists, scares me." I wouldn't have had the same concern with anyone else on KMC.

Best In-Thread Debater: Scoobless
Why: Debating is highly subjective, so I can't honestly compare the merits of his debating with others. But his results speak for themselves. Four tourney wins, one runner-up, and (unofficially, since I've never kept track) the best win/loss ratio in KMC's history (including only people with multiple tourneys). He also, whether he knows it or not, is a blunt but effective instructor. I had writeup duties for our tournament together, but his suggestions, changes, and additions to our plans and my words were surprisingly enlightening and helped make me the debater I am today.

...

And newjak's right about Juggernaut. It just sort of dawned on me. I don't even like him much, but I've thought of combos with him that should dominate. But I always shy away from him because...well, for one I tend to pride versatility over raw power...but also because he seems to be tourney poison despite his potential.

The Lists: Entry #8

"Best" Tournament Ideas

Criteria: "best" can mean one of two things. One, that it was functional and an intelligent step for tourneys to take. Or two, that it was revolutionary and inventive, taking tourneys in new directions.

3 - Judges
Why: Without judges, apathy and controversy were the norm. With them, subjectivity still exists, but with knowledgeable and thorough judging, each match has a more legitimate decision than our earliest tourneys. No one person is responsible for the advent of judging, but Dizzle/ScarletSpider's tourney was the first to implement it.

2 - Non-comic characters
Why: Some love it, others hate it. Some non-comic characters are surprising and powerful, others are too obscure to make an impact on matches. But it's undeniable that the 2-3 tourneys that have allowed non-comic characters have been made more interesting for it. From Jedi Knights and TV warriors, to book and anime characters, it's always a fun curveball. Again, it wasn't my idea but my first tourney as host (V) was the first to try it.

1 - Point-based drafting (Tourney XI. Evangel)
Why: Why not? No other tournament system could give you Dr. Strange and Flash on one team, and 15 powerless females on another (and Empath). Options including Galactus, Batman, and everything in between, as well as "purchases" like prep time, knowledge of the opponent, and various uber-powers make participants think about their plan like never before. The diversity of strategies, and the bevy of options, make this format the most wide-open of any tournament in KMC's history. No system is perfect, but Evangel's point-based tourney system gets points for originality and fun.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

And newjak's right about Juggernaut. It just sort of dawned on me. I don't even like him much, but I've thought of combos with him that should dominate. But I always shy away from him because...well, for one I tend to pride versatility over raw power...but also because he seems to be tourney poison despite his potential. Not only that but for some reason he always seems to get taken early in any tourney for some reason.

I also believe it was you but I remember someone once saying something like this,

"Juggernaut is a great pick, and I'm sure had we been able to draft someone more than once Juggernaut would be floating around a few Amalgams."

I think the problem with Juggernaut is while he provides probably the single most impressive advantage in any tourney, the inability to be defeated directly. His lack of versatility in many other areas, like speed, high end energy powers, flight, teleportation, mental powers just makes it hard to for him to intertwine well.


In fact I think that might be his biggest problem, is that people tend to try and use him as a support character. I think if someone is going to to use him right then they are gonna have to use him as the focal point and build up from his weaknesses and strengths not using him to plug one hole in another's.

Originally posted by Newjak
Not only that but for some reason he always seems to get taken early in any tourney for some reason.

I also believe it was you but I remember someone once saying something like this,

"Juggernaut is a great pick, and I'm sure had we been able to draft someone more than once Juggernaut would be floating around a few Amalgams."

I think the problem with Juggernaut is while he provides probably the single most impressive advantage in any tourney, the inability to be defeated directly. His lack of versatility in many other areas, like speed, high end energy powers, flight, teleportation, mental powers just makes it hard to for him to intertwine well.


In fact I think that might be his biggest problem, is that people tend to try and use him as a support character. I think if someone is going to to use him right then they are gonna have to use him as the focal point and build up from his weaknesses and strengths not using him to plug one hole in another's.
Well I technically won with Juggs in the AMC mini tourney(that ended up being a grand total of two matches)...

Herald+ is too powerful to have an amalgam tournament anymore because people would literally put together indestructible abstract-style beings. But I remember mere days after my first tourney drafts were in the books and battles had started, I thought: "Hmmm. Juggs + a telepath (negates the weakness) + a GL (mobility and versatility) = unbeatable." Hell, pick a telepathic resistant like Alan Scott and you could blow the 3rd pick on something else. It's blindingly obvious, but for some reason even THAT probably wouldn't work for god knows why.

NJ/Blair's problem when they had him was that he was separate, so he had mobility and tp protection, but only as long as they could convince judges that their other characters wouldn't be beaten.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Herald+ is too powerful to have an amalgam tournament anymore because people would literally put together indestructible abstract-style beings. But I remember mere days after my first tourney drafts were in the books and battles had started, I thought: "Hmmm. Juggs + a telepath (negates the weakness) + a GL (mobility and versatility) = unbeatable." Hell, pick a telepathic resistant like Alan Scott and you could blow the 3rd pick on something else. It's blindingly obvious, but for some reason even THAT probably wouldn't work for god knows why.

I could beat that combo .

Originally posted by darthgoober
I could beat that combo .

So could I, probably. Like I said, I had the idea 3 years ago.

But you could do a lot worse at that level. And at the time it might've even won a tourney or two, if properly used. I remember someone had him paired with Dr. Fate in that tourney, but he didn't use him too well.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I could beat that combo .

Actually, just out of curiosity, let's say it was GL Alan Scott (tp resistance), Juggs, and Thor in an amalgamation....wielding a ring in one hand and Mjolnir in the other.

At or below top tier herald, who do you pick to beat him?

I made the 3rd pick Thor, because his magic-block of Juggs was one of the few ways I saw of getting around Juggs' durability.

I'm sure it can be done, I'm just curious to see what goob would do. And you're obviously not required to answer if you don't want...might not want to give away trade secrets. Others can feel free to chime in too.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Herald+ is too powerful to have an amalgam tournament anymore because people would literally put together indestructible abstract-style beings. But I remember mere days after my first tourney drafts were in the books and battles had started, I thought: "Hmmm. Juggs + a telepath (negates the weakness) + a GL (mobility and versatility) = unbeatable." Hell, pick a telepathic resistant like Alan Scott and you could blow the 3rd pick on something else. It's blindingly obvious, but for some reason even THAT probably wouldn't work for god knows why.

NJ/Blair's problem when they had him was that he was separate, so he had mobility and tp protection, but only as long as they could convince judges that their other characters wouldn't be beaten. I have probably the most combinations Juggernaut floating around of anything as he my favorite so I tend to try and incorporate him as best as I can.

Yeah that was problem although we thought we would get around that with prep only to learn like a day before matches started that it would be ten seconds

And I bet a Herald level Amalgam tourney could be done i nfact it would probably be the tourney I would want most to compete in before my tourney days are done.

Heh. Herald Amalgam. I'll bring back General Kinky....


















....and get stomped!!

Kinky was good for his day, but a lot of it was forum lack of knowledge about Apollo, and over-valuing Loki.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Heh. Herald Amalgam. I'll bring back General Kinky....




....and get stomped!!

Kinky was good for his day, but a lot of it was forum lack of knowledge about Apollo, and over-valuing Loki.

Didn't you have Apollo in Zod's armor or something

That was the first tourney I ever saw, and it looked so fun. Just the power level or fact that those are the character's I'm most familiar with but I've just always wanted to compete in the style tourney.

Because I had so many ideas for that tourney and more importantly I just want a chance to use some of my ideas with Juggernaut and see how they would work.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Actually, just out of curiosity, let's say it was GL Alan Scott (tp resistance), Juggs, and Thor in an amalgamation....wielding a ring in one hand and Mjolnir in the other.

At or below top tier herald, who do you pick to beat him?


hmm

Black Alice.

Originally posted by Newjak


Didn't you have Apollo in Zod's armor or something

That was the first tourney I ever saw, and it looked so fun. Just the power level or fact that those are the character's I'm most familiar with but I've just always wanted to compete in the style tourney.

Because I had so many ideas for that tourney and more importantly I just want a chance to use some of my ideas with Juggernaut and see how they would work.

Yeah, Zod's armor bathes him in red sun radiation, and Apollo responds to ANY sun radiation, so it was a mobile battery for him, as well as additional armor. Then Loki for versatility.

A great power mesh, and I'm still proud of thinking of it, but Apollo and Zod still don't bring nearly enough to the table to make a go of it at that level. Since it was pre-scans, and Authority knowledge was low, I got fairly far, but I couldn't get past beasts like Majestic and Thor.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
hmm

Black Alice.

Originally posted by DigiMark007


What? Not my fault you picked all magic characters. Its an art really, finding the flaws in all characters

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, Zod's armor bathes him in red sun radiation, and Apollo responds to ANY sun radiation, so it was a mobile battery for him, as well as additional armor. Then Loki for versatility.

A great power mesh, and I'm still proud of thinking of it, but Apollo and Zod still don't bring nearly enough to the table to make a go of it at that level. Since it was pre-scans, and Authority knowledge was low, I got fairly far, but I couldn't get past beasts like Majestic and Thor.



True that combo would probably get wrecked now

Originally posted by Newjak
And I bet a Herald level Amalgam tourney could be done i nfact it would probably be the tourney I would want most to compete in before my tourney days are done.
I've actually been planning on wanting to start up a herald amalgam tourney, maybe after yours.

No future tourney talk.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
No future tourney talk. So what epic ballads have thee brought us Digi.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
What? Not my fault you picked all magic characters. Its an art really, finding the flaws in all characters

I suppose we'd have to sub out Alan for Hal or something, and Thor for...someone else of equal quality (editor's note: none exist of such a level!)

313

But seriously, what Juggernaut is to newjak, Thor is for me. I considered a few others for the current tourney that brought other advantages to the table (Quasar, Genis, Majestic, etc.) but I couldn't wrench myself away from him. Doctor/Reed/Lex was pretty much always the "base" but it was just a matter of complimenting them.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I suppose we'd have to sub out Alan for Hal or something, and Thor for...someone else of equal quality (editor's note: none exist of such a level!)

313

But seriously, what Juggernaut is to newjak, Thor is for me. I considered a few others for the current tourney that brought other advantages to the table (Quasar, Genis, Majestic, etc.) but I couldn't wrench myself away from him. Doctor/Reed/Lex was pretty much always the "base" but it was just a matter of complimenting them. I feel ya Digi

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, Zod's armor bathes him in red sun radiation, and Apollo responds to ANY sun radiation, so it was a mobile battery for him, as well as additional armor. Then Loki for versatility.

A great power mesh, and I'm still proud of thinking of it, but Apollo and Zod still don't bring nearly enough to the table to make a go of it at that level. Since it was pre-scans, and Authority knowledge was low, I got fairly far, but I couldn't get past beasts like Majestic and Thor.




Need more details. So you're talking about...

Mind/ring-Alan
Body-Juggs
Powers/Hammer- Thor

...correct?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Need more details. So you're talking about...

Mind/ring-Alan
Body-Juggs
Powers/Hammer- Thor

...correct?

That's the gist. I switched to Hal and...someone? when Blair found teh magic loophole with Black Alice. But you can stick with Alan and Thor.

Like I said, it can likely be done a variety of ways. I'm just enjoying presenting a little challenge.

I was gonna do best tourney sigs, but there's not too many of them (at least that we have saved in the respect thread) and DC and I are about the only legit sig-makers who've made them for tourneys (Rew too, but he only did 1). It would really just be Rew's sig, and then whichever one is the "best" from DC's and my stuff. Not enough options to make it interesting.

Anyway, I still have a few more ideas for lists before I run out.

....

Along those lines, I need some help. "Most Powerful Tourney Character." I'm basing it on "draft" strength, meaning no team meshing or prep time. Also no restrictions on powers, regardless of what they were for the tourney they were drafted in. Just best in 1-v-1 fights. I've compiled a list of picks, but it's hard to pick 3 from them.

Mangog, The Keeper, Earth X Absorbing Man, The Doctor, Classic Strange, Dr. Fate, Despero, AS Superman, Regular Surfer, Thor, Metron, Waverider

Since I'm stipulating "no prep" I feel like Strange and Fate are hurt a bit by this, but they still belong in this company.

Maybe you should do "most powerful for their tourney" (then you wouldn't just be looking at the sub-skyfather tourney, as there could be another team that's more impressive for their "weight class"

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Maybe you should do "most powerful for their tourney" (then you wouldn't just be looking at the sub-skyfather tourney, as there could be another team that's more impressive for their "weight class"

A few of those are from Evangel's, but I was also planning on making a similar list that included amalgams to increase diversity.

Your idea works too. We could honestly break them all into separate lists, since this criteria is a lot different than yours would be.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
A few of those are from Evangel's, but I was also planning on making a similar list that included amalgams to increase diversity.

Your idea works too. We could honestly break them all into separate lists, since this criteria is a lot different than yours would be. Yeah, there's always the idea of different lists for set of tourneys/weight class... but number 1 would usually, or quite often be the winners of the tourney that took place in that weight class, except for certain upsets (Darth/Bran, perhaps would be an example).

If that's what you meant.

I'll break it into multiple lists to accomodate your idea, which is probably better than this one. But let's finish with this one first.

Anyway, re-posting the current list:

Who's the most powerful (or 3 most) in a 1-on-1 scenario with no power restrictions and no prep (but enough time to avoid speedblitzes for the non-speedster characters)...
Mangog, The Keeper, Earth X Absorbing Man, The Doctor, Classic Strange, Dr. Fate, Despero, AS Superman, Regular Surfer, Thor, Metron, Waverider(?)

Other nominations are welcome as well, but there's not many more that would qualify.

Keeper IMO

I'd probably agree. I made an initial list of 3-2-1 being Mangog, EX Absorbing Man, and Keeper respectively.

But then I thought about Strange and The Doctor and relented from posting it because I couldn't decide.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
That's the gist. I switched to Hal and...someone? when Blair found teh magic loophole with Black Alice. But you can stick with Alan and Thor.

Like I said, it can likely be done a variety of ways. I'm just enjoying presenting a little challenge.
How about...

Mind- Blue Energy Supes
Powers- Absorbing Man
Body/Eqipment- He-Man

Reasoning-

He-Man can match Juggernaut strait up strength wise and with Absorbing Man's mans powers combined with his Power Vest he'll also be
on par durability wise. He-Man's Power Sword should be more than sufficient to bypass Jugg's defenses just as Shatterstar's were, the difference is that He-Man is likely strong enough to remove Jugg's head and helmet at the same time.

Not bad. Lulz at He-Man. He was actually picked in the Under Thanos tourney, but then whoever had him was a no-show.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Not bad. Lulz at He-Man. He was actually picked in the Under Thanos tourney, but then whoever had him was a no-show.
Thanks. And it was Kandy.

I still think anyone with a working knowledge of the characters would be able to make a go of it with my hypothetical amalgam. Thor's energy soak would be a detriment to Supes and he's dealt with AM more than once before. And Blue Supes energy trick in a GL's head to make him lose his concentration wouldn't work due to Juggs' field and helmet (unless breached, of course) so Alan would be very much in play. Still, it would be a good match.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I still think anyone with a working knowledge of the characters would be able to make a go of it with my hypothetical amalgam. Thor's energy soak would be a detriment to Supes and he's dealt with AM more than once before. And Blue Supes energy trick in a GL's head to make him lose his concentration wouldn't work due to Juggs' field and helmet (unless breached, of course) so Alan would be very much in play. Still, it would be a good match.
Oh it would definitely be a fight, I wasn't trying to say that my guy would blow your guy out of the water or anything, just that he's got the tools to do so.

Anyway my guy may have Supes energy manipulation powers, but he's still got He-Man's body so Thor's absorption wouldn't be that much of a threat offensively. Since Alan and Supes's minds won't be using the hammer or sword with the same proficiency as their true owners, the slight advantage the hammer has over the sword will be rendered nol, making the Sword the more dangerous weapon of the two. Blue might now be able to use his disruption technique until the Helmet's gone but he actually won't have too because all three of my component characters have some kick ass energy absorption abilities to their credit. And with my characters FAR superior speed it's not going to be all that difficult to get the helmet off anyway...

Heh. Too bad this isn't for real. But I'll save my strength for our upcoming match...which got moved to this Friday, btw.