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Recent article on the possible direction the live-action show might take

Star Wars Meets The Sopranos?



It's still early to say whether the TV-Shows are canon or not, but this certainly sheds a little light on the matter


.... and it also says that both Showtime and HBO are strong contenders to air the show....

We'll be waiting until we get some official word from GL or Lucasfilm.

Found a few tidbits of info on the live action series:

http://www.collider.com/entertainment/news/article.asp/aid/7242/tcid/1

Dark... crime family...PG-13... sounds interesting.

No porn there, thats for sure.

Darn!

*geek hat on*

Yes, it's a biopic of the Kane crime family from Star Wars Galaxies. Ahem.

*geek hat goes off, 1,2,3 and we're back in the room*

It is indeed early to call, but thanks for the info; I do want to keep a look out for something we can build a policy out of. It's only rumour of course; what would be nice is an interview with the big man.

It's rather odd that both the developers of The Force Unleashed game say the game is considered canon by Lucas, now someone else outside of Lucasfilm says both tv-series are considerd canon, but we don't hear a thing from Lucasfilm!
What's going on?

The developers on TFU were basically talking cobblers. If it was canon with anything at all, it's only wth the rest of the EU.

Wookiepedia is classifying this as T-canon.

Problem is that a. that's still part of a system used for the EU and b. it's not actually been clearly stated what T-canon actually is, other than being a new classification; people have only assumed.

No, we're still waiting on something useful.

Exactly, it's time Lucasfilm sources spoke up instead of people working with Lucasfilm saying how George feels about things.

The problem is, they don't like doing that, because any statement on canon pisses lots of people off. They normally keep it vague.

Then so will we.

Originally posted by queeq
Then so will we.

be pissed?

It's not confirmed it was about Jabba... it was just conjecture.

Maybe it'll be called Star Wars: Meet the Fetts.

Just for the record, I hate the whole canon idea. It's GL's way of making money off of other stories, but still being able to say that it doesn't belong with his stories. It was born of greed and, if he didn't want it linked to his stories then he shouldn't have allowed it to come into existance. my peace has been said.

so far i'd say they are, pretty much every show ha canon in it (even the dreaded holiday special has canon, mostly the boba fett animated) but i cant see any logic behind it not

Originally posted by queeq
It's not confirmed it was about Jabba... it was just conjecture.

Maybe it'll be called Star Wars: Meet the Fetts.

Yeah, I know
... it was just that the idea of the show being centered around the (Jabba's) Hutt family it's, besides amusing, terrifying.

Jabba and Gardula... and their kids Pizza, Mozzarella and Tagliatella. AkA the Soaprano's.

That would be interesting... I think my favorite character would be Mozzarella.

Hey, i was just watching some videos about CW at the OS, and one of the ladies talking said, "Maybe one Ahsoka will become part of Star Wars canon and lore and that audiences around the world will love her for years and years to come."

Don't know if that means that she's not canon yet (which would have to include the whole movie right?) or if she's merely speaking on her popularity.

Input?

Originally posted by Kapton JAC
Just for the record, I hate the whole canon idea. It's GL's way of making money off of other stories, but still being able to say that it doesn't belong with his stories. It was born of greed and, if he didn't want it linked to his stories then he shouldn't have allowed it to come into existance. my peace has been said.

While I won't really disagree, I have found it best to choose what is canon for yourself. It doesn't matter what George Lucas calls canon, if it doesn't jive with you, then it doesn't have to happen in your Star Wars universe. I felt a lot like the guy who wrote the article on Collide. I saw Episode 1 and my entire perception of Star Wars changed. And by the time that horendous NOOOOOOOO!OOOO!O!O!OO!O! beltched out of Hayden Christensen in James Earl Jone's voice, I'd had enough. I was disgusted by the prequels so much that I couldn't even reconcile them in regards to the original trilogy. I just couldn't see the two going together. That was when I had an epiphany that should have been the easiest and most obvious descision in the world. Forget about them. If I don't want to believe that Darth Vader grew up on Tatooine and everyone in the galaxy knew each other and JarJar Binks existed, then those things didn't have to happen. I sold my prequel dvds at a trade store, I gave most of my prequel action figures to the Hamilton shelter, gave the books away -and the comics. I simply wiped them out; all of them. (Well, not all of them. I kept the episode 3 Bail Organa, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Mon Mothma figures)

Just because George Lucas says so doesn't mean we have to. I like what I'm hearing about the live action show. Hopefully it will live up to my expectations. If it doesn't, I don't have to watch it or consider it in the over all scheme or buy the merchandise. That's what I did with teh prequels because it had started to ruin for me something I've loved my whole life. But it doesn't have to be ruined. I just had to learn to be a discerning fan. 30 years of movies, cartoons, comic books, novels, etc is a lot to keep track of anyway.

it doesn't work like that though, you can't choose what's canon and what's not

If you choose to ignore it, or completely block it out, so be it...

the thing it's SW Canon it's there to settle arguments between fans as to what's real and what's not when it comes to the Star Wars Universe... and on that note: everything in the movies it's canon, and it over rules any other story that might come up and cause conflict with the story presented in the movies (though not all cut scenes can be considered canon)

Originally posted by S_D_J
it doesn't work like that though, you can't choose what's canon and what's not

If you choose to ignore it, or completely block it out, so be it...

the thing it's SW Canon it's there to settle arguments between fans as to what's real and what's not when it comes to the Star Wars Universe... and on that note: everything in the movies it's canon, and it over rules any other story that might come up and cause conflict with the story presented in the movies (though not all cut scenes can be considered canon)


Sure it does. It really does work just like that.

If the George Lucas "canon" is there to settle arguments between the fans, then the fans are kind of silly. I seriously doubt that is what GL thinks about when he greenlight's his company to call something canon or not. He wants to call certain things canon because he want's his legacy as the creator to be remembered exactly as he wants it to be remembered. Well, even the creator of this universe isnt always qualified to dictate his own terms. If the decree of George Lucas is all you need to swallow that hard, sharp pill, then you're clearly free to feel that way. To say otherise would be a contradiction to my point. That being that you are the god of your own Star Wars universe. You don't have to buy into the JarJar Binks scenario to be a "real Star Wars fan". It's your dollar, so you get to make the descisions.

Lucas makes up what is canon or not. No one is forcing you to swallow any pill. If you don't like some SW stuff, ignore it like you did. But don't come saying here that anyone can make up their own canon, because that basically annihilates the very meaning of the word, it becomes obsolete and doesn't apply to a debate anymore. Then we can only discuss individual preferences, which in my experience will lead to unnecessary bickering and insults. At least a set canon prevents that kind of nonsense, needless arguments in that field can be prevented or killed in an early stage,
I'm not to fond of the PT either, but it's canon... I'll survive I think.

Originally posted by queeq
Lucas makes up what is canon or not. No one is forcing you to swallow any pill. If you don't like some SW stuff, ignore it like you did. But don't come saying here that anyone can make up their own canon, because that basically annihilates the very meaning of the word, it becomes obsolete and doesn't apply to a debate anymore. Then we can only discuss individual preferences, which in my experience will lead to unnecessary bickering and insults. At least a set canon prevents that kind of nonsense, needless arguments in that field can be prevented or killed in an early stage,
I'm not to fond of the PT either, but it's canon... I'll survive I think.

Exactly. It's Lucas Universe, he created it, and he decides what's canon or not, even if you don't like it

... there are alternates stories, universes, but it's he who decides what sticks around and what not

Clearly he didn't make the EU, but it's his input (and what happens in the movies) what makes something out of EU canon, as long as something in the EU doesn't contradict his story, it can be considered Canon (though I'm not saying it is)

Originally posted by queeq
Lucas makes up what is canon or not. No one is forcing you to swallow any pill. If you don't like some SW stuff, ignore it like you did. But don't come saying here that anyone can make up their own canon, because that basically annihilates the very meaning of the word, it becomes obsolete and doesn't apply to a debate anymore. Then we can only discuss individual preferences, which in my experience will lead to unnecessary bickering and insults. At least a set canon prevents that kind of nonsense, needless arguments in that field can be prevented or killed in an early stage,
I'm not to fond of the PT either, but it's canon... I'll survive I think.

It is obsolete; to me. If you guys cling to certain aspects of Star Wars, then you'll also be burdened by some aspects of it; and you don't have to be. I didn't say that canon had to be done away with so you guys couldn't argue over who would win between Watto and Jabba the Hutt. I said you don't have to buy into it if you don't want. As a moderator of this section of the forums, I ask you when was the last time you heard me debate anything SW? You haven't. Because I don't see the point in arguing or debating Star Wars with a million other people who have their own feelings about the universe. And if you think that George Lucas is sitting on his dias inside the walls of Skywalker Ranch, slurping up his frogs and watching his green twilek girls dance, stops to think about what he can do to make arguments or debates easier and more civil for the fans, you guys are nuts! If I was going to debate a character or a fighting style or how to build a lightsabre (which I'm not) then canon is there, I suppose. But I get to decide what jives in my Star Wars universe. You get to do the same for yours. And our Star Wars universes need not collide. I don't care if you think Jar Jar Binks was the greatest character since the Ewok was invented and his performance was Shakespearean. I don't. Personally, I'll take an Ewok and an out-of-control speederbike. But if there's room for fart jokes and numb tongues in your Star Wars universe, that's up to you. See, that's the beauty of my position on the subject; I don't care if you demand canon be observed. I don't argue with people about Star Wars. And trust me, I understand where you're coming from. I had a hard time deciding to do away with the last 10 years of garbage I'd been force-fed. That's the best part of my opinion; you don't have to agree with me.

I think it's funny that the two of you have spent the last 4 posts telling me if ignoring Mr. Lucas' "canon" was my descision, "then so be it"...but that doesn't make it so. And I've spent the last 3 posts saying your Star Wars universe can be what ever you want it to be for yourself. To each his own, and if you're own is whatever Lucas says, then that's fine.

Originally posted by Devil King

...

I think it's funny that the two of you have spent the last 4 posts telling me if ignoring Mr. Lucas' "canon" was my decision, "then so be it"...but that doesn't make it so. And I've spent the last 3 posts saying your Star Wars universe can be what ever you want it to be for yourself. To each his own, and if you're own is whatever Lucas says, then that's fine.

It is your decision to ignore it. You don't like it: fine. You don't think it works, it's real (within the SW Universe) or even you think it never happened, fine.

... but don't come saying that canon it's whatever you make it to be, because it just doesn't work like that. the word Canon has a meaning, the canon created within an artistic work it's dictated by the author, simple as that.
If Lucas decides to remake the prequel to accommodate most fans ideas, so be it. He can, he can create a new canon if he wishes (and get more money out of it as well) and call it "the shit returns" if he pleases, and it's ok because he bloody can.

No one is force-feeding you anything, you're are taking it willingly: when you buy merchandise, books, comics and DVDs. It's your decision, and your money. If you go see "The Shit Returns" movie and buy "Turd-Turd Binks" action figures, it's you who's doing it, no one forces you to. You can simply choose not to.

I understand your position, but this discussion it's about what is canon or what's not (actually it's about the TV Show Canonicity, but still applies)
And what we arguing with you it's not what is canon in the SW Universe, but what canon actually means and how it works.

Originally posted by Devil King
That's the best part of my opinion; you don't have to agree with me.

that's just it. It's your opinion (and trust me, there's a bunch of people here who agree with you in their dislike of the PT) and we don't have to agree.
But we don't dictate what's canon and what's not.
Canon is what it is, even if you don't agree with it.

I think you guys are totally misunderstanding what Devil King is saying.

If you want to have debates about Star Wars then its fine for you to use the "Canon" of George Lucas- that is your decision.

However, he's pointing out that that is a personal decision and at the end of the day you can adapt and change the Star Wars universe to fit your personal desire and wants and needs or whatever. Now, that might not make sense to you- you might say, well whats the point? Anyone can just change anything and it ruins it- but it really doesn't that IS the point. That's why people tell stories. We hear something, then put our own slant on it and then pass our version on- its part of the human condition- Star Wars is just a story, its not history its not bound by facts and dates and scholarly evaluation. Its just a story, and when you are told a story you are entitled to become part of the story- to make it your own, to expand it to evaluate it- to change it!

Its like, what JRR Tolkien intended with the Lord of the Rings. Now, I may be mistaken but I am very sure that his intention was not to create a solid-state unchanging story but rather to create a legend, one that could be changed and evolved to fit the person who heard it. He invited readers to fill in gaps, to reinterpret what he had written. He wanted people from all over to put in their ideas and stories to join part of his Legend! The Tale of the One Ring was his interpretation, maybe he got it all wrong- maybe Frodo failed and Sam was the one who destroyed the ring. Maybe they gave it to Faramir and Aragon put it on and became evil- all these possibilities that we are meant to explore and consider...and noone can say- "well actually thats not true", they can say "thats not what happens in my version" but they can't prove your telling of the story to be false...

George Lucas can have his version of Star Wars- but I can have mine, and so can you!

Indeed, this approach would open up far better discussions that "Boba Fett vs the Assembled Hordes of Genosia", the discussions could become "what if..." then people can say, "well what if..." again and it keeps going and people keep inventing and keep imagining.

So, sure the Canon is fine if you want to play in the same sandpit all your life, but if you want to open the gate and explore the rest of the world- then you really have to let it go.

I'll stick to what I said: Canon it's canon, even if you don't agree with it.

however: I do understand his position, he doesn't like the PT so he better forget them, forget they exist, that's fine: we told him that, so be it,

...but it doesn't change what is and what isn't SW canon (read that GL canon). It's that simple.

he bought into, and then felt robbed, and know doensn't like it. It is his opinion, his personal decision, and that's pretty much ok.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
...all these possibilities that we are meant to explore and consider...and noone can say- "well actually thats not true", they can say "thats not what happens in my version" but they can't prove your telling of the story to be false...

...

Indeed, this approach would open up far better discussions that "Boba Fett vs the Assembled Hordes of Genosia", the discussions could become "what if..." then people can say, "well what if..." again and it keeps going and people keep inventing and keep imagining.

So, sure the Canon is fine if you want to play in the same sandpit all your life, but if you want to open the gate and explore the rest of the world- then you really have to let it go.

the thing is: how do you prove your telling of the story to be true?
just because you tell it different based on your opinion, doesn't make it true either... and then disccussion gets out of hand and it turns into bickering and insults... just because you take your opinion and turn it into fact...

We don't take everything Lucas throws at us and be content with it, not everyone likes it, but that's just what it is, his story, he created it, he had help during ANH and ESB, but from there it may have all gone downwards, but it's his story ... like it or not, he can do with it what he pleases

it's like when Jodie Foster said she didn't want to play Ag. Starling in Hannibal, because she thought "Clarice wouldn't act like that"
and the Author got mad because "she can act, and do, and say whatever he wants because he invented her" and no one is going to tell him otherwise... of course the movie sucked, but it is what it is...
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

George Lucas can have his version of Star Wars- but I can have mine, and so can you!

yes, but that's call EU, and if you want to be more personal: FanFic, but not Canon...

Let's see what Ush has to say about it...

Ush will say the same things as I did.

There is room for every universe in here. There's an EU section and there's a canon section. You can go any way you want. But Dk clearly said he'd make up his own "canon"... well, as I said before that kinda makes the meaning of the word canon quite obsolete.

I care not for the Waht if.. threads or the VS. threads. I do like to explore hwat Lucas had in mind, how it works etc. After all SW, taps into mythology. And yes, the PT kinda screwed it all up and I fear the CLone Wars will do even more. But hey, we are discussing it, and that basically the whole point, we like SW so we like to talk about it. Well, at least some of us do.

Originally posted by S_D_J
I'll stick to what I said: Canon it's canon, even if you don't agree with it.

Noone is saying you can't, what I am saying is it is irrelevant- it is your take on the story, thats right story-everyone is entitled to take it, to shape it and make it what they want.

Originally posted by S_D_J
however: I do understand his position, he doesn't like the PT so he better forget them, forget they exist, that's fine: we told him that, so be it,

...but it doesn't change what is and what isn't SW canon (read that GL canon). It's that simple.

he bought into, and then felt robbed, and know doensn't like it. It is his opinion, his personal decision, and that's pretty much ok.

The PT thing is inconsequential, he may not have liked it but even if he did- it would still be totally his choice to decide whether to recognise it in his Star Wars universe or not.


Originally posted by S_D_J
the thing is: how do you prove your telling of the story to be true?
just because you tell it different based on your opinion, doesn't make it true either... and then disccussion gets out of hand and it turns into bickering and insults... just because you take your opinion and turn it into fact...

See, thats the whole thing- it isn't true. It is fiction and thus we can do what we want to it, we can change bits, retell bits and do what ever we please because its just a story.

Yet, if people can not have a friendly discussion about what they think should have happened, what could have happened or what really did happen then those people are allowing themselves to become close minded and taking part in a futile effort to establish control over other peoples imagination.

Originally posted by S_D_J
We don't take everything Lucas throws at us and be content with it, not everyone likes it, but that's just what it is, his story, he created it, he had help during ANH and ESB, but from there it may have all gone downwards, but it's his story ... like it or not, he can do with it what he pleases

Sure he can, with his version of the story- in my little world the Ewoks did not beat the Storm Troopers...I'm sorry, but they just didn't.

Originally posted by S_D_J
it's like when Jodie Foster said she didn't want to play Ag. Starling in Hannibal, because she thought "Clarice wouldn't act like that"
and the Author got mad because "she can act, and do, and say whatever he wants because he invented her" and no one is going to tell him otherwise... of course the movie sucked, but it is what it is...

Well, what I would say to him is when he creates something and releases it to the world it stops becomming "his" he has shared it with everyone and thus everyone has the right to say, "no this is what would happen" or "this is what the character is like." That is the whole point in imagination!


Originally posted by S_D_J
yes, but that's call EU, and if you want to be more personal: FanFic, but not Canon...

Fanfiction...how is that any less valuable or important that Lucas-Fiction?

I mean, really its not his canon at all- its a rip off of earlier stories! He says so himself. He is retelling the traditional fairy tale of a boy a princess a knight and an old wise man!

Originally posted by S_D_J
Let's see what Ush has to say about it...

What Ush has to say is fine, and indeed the rules he enforces are only there for the purpose of controlling the debate, its practical to have an established canon. However, ultimately that canon is limited and counter-productive.

Originally posted by S_D_J
I'll stick to what I said: Canon it's canon, even if you don't agree with it.

As I said, that's fine. I no longer subscribe to that point of view. It's a little bit limiting to claim that I decided to throw out canon because of the prequels alone. They were the reason I finally did it, but not the only reason. Take the exchange of the Prequels with the Thrawn Trilogy. To me, that's my favorite story arc outside the movies, so in my SW universe, that's canon. I feel that is the story that relates to me what happened to those characters after Return of the Jedi. Or the first 4 issues of the Empire comic series; they're canon in my little world. It isn't just a matter of getting to create my own history for a background character, it's a matter of deciding for myself what fits. So in my SW universe, Mara Jade is around, but she and Luke are not married. And Han and Leia only have two children.

Originally posted by S_D_J
Let's see what Ush has to say about it...

Have you not been listening to what I'm saying? I don't need Ush to tell me what's canon any more than I need George Lucas to tell me what's canon. I'm sorry if you think me expressing my opinion on this is a matter of blasphemy, but I doubt that is going to change my mind. This isn't a debate that you're going to win and this is not a fight one of us will loose; it's simply how I feel about Star Wars and if it's different from how you feel about Star Wars or canon that's okay, we don't have to feel the same way. Basically, again, you not agreeing with me is not going to keep me up at night.

Originally posted by queeq
"canon"... well, as I said before that kinda makes the meaning of the word canon quite obsolete.

And as I said before, if that makes a word obsolete for you, I'm sorry. But it doesn't make any word obsolete for me.

Originally posted by queeq
I care not for the what if.. threads or the VS. threads. I do like to explore what Lucas had in mind, how it works etc. After all SW, taps into mythology. And yes, the PT kinda screwed it all up and I fear the CLone Wars will do even more. But hey, we are discussing it, and that basically the whole point, we like SW so we like to talk about it. Well, at least some of us do.

I never said I didn't talk about Star Wars; I said I don't debate Star Wars. I'm not going to get into a debate with someone over the finer points of Boba Fett's dad getting his head cut off right in front of Boba Fett in an arena in front of a hundred jedi when I can't stomach the movie myself. Were I asked about that by a friend of mine, I'd simply say the whole movie sucked and move on to the next point. And hopefully one I am interested in discussing.

Originally posted by S_D_J
it's like when Jodie Foster said she didn't want to play Ag. Starling in Hannibal, because she thought "Clarice wouldn't act like that"
and the Author got mad because "she can act, and do, and say whatever he wants because he invented her" and no one is going to tell him otherwise... of course the movie sucked, but it is what it is...

If you're wondering, I don't own a copy of Hannibal on DVD, either. But you know, if you asked Jodie Foster, Hannibal probably isn't "canon" to her....which is why she didn't do the movie.

As ever, I have zero tolerance for canon debates- or, for that matter, debates on the manner in which we operate canon rules here. The rules we have set out are the rules you guys have to deal with and is not for chagning, alteration, questioning or debating.

This argument is completely irrelevant. If you want to cherry pick which parts of any franchise you think do count and discard the rest- your business. It's a pretty stupid business but it's still yours.

But canon is a term that refers to an official position, and it is that that we are interested in trying to work out and make a decision upon. No-one's opinion has any bearing on that at all- it has an independant existence decided by people who are entitled to do so that no set of opinions or beliefs held by anyone else affects in the slightest, and if you believe otherwise you are entirely mistaken. 'Your own personal Star Wars universe' is something that no-one gives a toss about. The canon Star Wars universe, in contrast, is exceptionally important and is what we deal with here. As I mention in my canon thread, Star Wars- like everything in the entire world- is for you to enjoy as you see fit, but around HERE we have certain rules that you are stuck with.

So whether you think you need me to tell you anything or not, DK, hear this- expressing an opinion like that is useless. Officially speaking there will be a canon position on the tv series, and that position will be reflected inside these forums. If you don't care about it- then don't post about it either. That is all.

Any further posts basically saying "I don't care about canon" in a thread entirely dedicated to trying to work out the canonicity of something will be treated as spam and the posters warned accordingly.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
As ever, I have zero tolerance for canon debates- or, for that matter, debates on the manner in which we operate canon rules here. The rules we have set out are the rules you guys have to deal with and is not for chagning, alteration, questioning or debating.

This argument is completely irrelevant. If you want to cherry pick which parts of any franchise you think do count and discard the rest- your business. It's a pretty stupid business but it's still yours.

But canon is a term that refers to an official position, and it is that that we are interested in trying to work out and make a decision upon. No-one's opinion has any bearing on that at all- it has an independant existence decided by people who are entitled to do so that no set of opinions or beliefs held by anyone else affects in the slightest, and if you believe otherwise you are entirely mistaken. 'Your own personal Star Wars universe' is something that no-one gives a toss about. The canon Star Wars universe, in contrast, is exceptionally important and is what we deal with here. As I mention in my canon thread, Star Wars- like everything in the entire world- is for you to enjoy as you see fit, but around HERE we have certain rules that you are stuck with.

So whether you think you need me to tell you anything or not, DK, hear this- expressing an opinion like that is useless. Officially speaking there will be a canon position on the tv series, and that position will be reflected inside these forums. If you don't care about it- then don't post about it either. That is all.

Any further posts basically saying "I don't care about canon" in a thread entirely dedicated to trying to work out the canonicity of something will be treated as spam and the posters warned accordingly.

Again, my post is being approached as though I have made some demand or decree. This is not the case. What you think about my descions in regards to canon are of no concern to me. (also as I have already said, I don't debate Star Wars. As big a fan as I am of certain parts of it, I don't argue the movies, books, figures, comics, etc. with anyone on here.) And that has been my point since I first got involved in this conversation. You call me stupid for not wanting fart jokes and Jabba the Hutt's son involved in my Star Wars universe; and that's fine because it's your opinion. All I've said is what you want to consider canon is your buisness. I never said that my version of canon must be observed by others. Right and wrong have not been the point. As useless as you say it is for me to point out that people don't have to buy into every idea Lucas calls canon, what use is there for fans to debate their opinion on anything in Star Wars? If arguing about canon is what some people think makes them the best Star Wars fan, then they likely aren't getting from the franchise what they should. My position is and has been that if you don't want The Clone Wars movie/series to be canon, it doesn't have to be. And if the topic of the thread is to determine the canonicity of the movie, then I can't imagine why pointing out that it doesn't have to be if you don't want it to be merrits you threatening me.

You and not argue about anything?

Argue is your middle name and in this thread all you do is argue about canonicity... And what is considered canon is not Ush's business, it's board business. It's not something to be argued about. And yet, that is all you do.
I think argueing about how Jango's head gets chopped off makes more sense than arguing about what is canon or not, because about the latter there IS NO DEBATE. It's an official posotion.

As for the Clone Wars, we've not yet heard an official position of the canonicity of the film, so even there, THERE IS NO DEBATE.

You seem to want to argue about something that is beyond argument, for the argument's sake. If you say you don't debate SW, then DON'T DEBATE SW.

Ok, Devil King, that is an official warning for continuing to argue the off-topic point after being directly told not to. Keep on doing so and that is a ban.

-

A final reminder to all that canon exists regardless of your opinion on it, and we follow it here. You can bleat until the cows come home otherwise but it makes no difference, rather like saying "Oh, I don't need a policeman to tell me the law, I can make up my own law." Wrong.

All posts in here from now on will relate to the subject- trying to discern where the tv show fits in official canon (about which there is very little information).

God I hope its non-canon. Some parts are relevant, but 'Stinky the Hutt'.....for goodness sake, they really let it down with that one.

Oh thank god, his name is Rotta.

I hope it's EU too.

Wow... an official warning. DK, you messed with the wrong forum now.

Originally posted by queeq
You and not argue about anything?

Then do please point out to me where I was arguing with anyone?

Even if the show is deemed to not be Canonical by Lucas wont it still have its own semi-canonicity on these boards in its own discussion area?


(I don't recall anyone debating the establishment of Canon on the boards in order to control disscussion)

On that note, is there a place where the TV show could inhabit if it is not quite EU but isn't quite canon...that is if Lucas decides to leave it as a grey area until he can gague public opinion on it?

If GL deems it non-canonical in that way then it will be treated more or less like the EU area.

Originally posted by Devil King
Then do please point out to me where I was arguing with anyone?

No takers?

Originally posted by Devil King
Sure it does. It really does work just like that.

If the George Lucas "canon" is there to settle arguments between the fans, then the fans are kind of silly. I seriously doubt that is what GL thinks about when he greenlight's his company to call something canon or not. He wants to call certain things canon because he want's his legacy as the creator to be remembered exactly as he wants it to be remembered. Well, even the creator of this universe isnt always qualified to dictate his own terms. If the decree of George Lucas is all you need to swallow that hard, sharp pill, then you're clearly free to feel that way. To say otherise would be a contradiction to my point.

Sounds pretty argumentative to me. But of course now you will stoop to the semantics of the definition of the word "argument" and be argumentative about that.

Besides, you're argumentative challenges are off topic. So stop it.

If your only response is to tell me that I'll say I wasn't arguing, then you likely realize I wasn't arguing. I never said Lucas "canon" had to be done away with; I said it was up to the individual fan to decide for themselves, in a thread about canonicity.

I don't think anyone cares about canon in their mind, only Lucas'.

We care because it structures the debates on the forums.

Originally posted by Devil King
If your only response is to tell me that I'll say I wasn't arguing, then you likely realize I wasn't arguing. I never said Lucas "canon" had to be done away with; I said it was up to the individual fan to decide for themselves, in a thread about canonicity.

Which is an argument again. It's second nature to you, DK.

After watching The Clone Wars, I think it fits better within the EU area, it follows other EU materials such as CN Clone Wars and other novels (Ventress' revenge, Arc Troppers... Obi Wan's and Anakin's clone outfits..), and of course the character of Ahsoka (I love the character), which is the one that poses the biggest problem

The Live-action TV-Show on the other hand, that seems more likely to get canon status... IMO

It would be nice to get an official statement... so far we can only continue to speculate...

Originally posted by queeq
We care because it structures the debates on the forums.



Which is an argument again. It's second nature to you, DK.

Let me see if I can refresh your memory with a quick run down of the thread:

Is the Clone Wars series canon?

Most people: That's up to George Lucas! Lucas is the law!

DK: You know, if you guys don't want it to be canon in your own SW universe, it doesn't have to be!

Q: LIES! If Lucas says so it is Canon!

DK: Yeah, I get canon, it's there for Mr. Lucas to say with certainty what he wants his story to be remembered as, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the world has to have the same canon. It's really up to the individual.

Q, et al: Lies! We can't debate STAW WARS unless there's canon! That's why it exists! You're changing the definition of the word.

DK: Yeah, if you think Lucas is sitting around trying to think of ways to keep SW debate amongst the fans civil, you're crazy. If you are the one spending your money on SW, then you can decide what's canon or not. And if you want to debate SW with other people, then I guess canon is there, but I don't really debate SW with others because I enjoy it for me and don't need anyone else to tell me what to enjoy or not to enjoy about it. I'm not changing any definition, I'm simply saying canon for one person doesn't have to be canon to another. The definition doesn't change, only the circumstances.

Q, et al: Lies! We'll see what Ush has to say about this!

DK: No, I don't think you understand me, it doesn't matter what Ush says is canon. I get to decide, just like all of you (remembering I've already said you can argue and debate all you like and that canon was there if that's what you chose to do)

U: Threaten, you're stupid, etc.

Q: Ha! Told you DK!

DK: Yeah, it doesn't really change my opinion. Besides, I've already said that my opinion is mine and yours is yours. You can follow what Lucas says if you like, I choose not to.

Q: God, all you do is argue. None of my responses to you have been off topic, despite me constantly saying yours to me are off topic.

The only thing resembling an argument is when I disagreed with you on why SW Canon exists.

DK, this is a final warning for you to stop arguing with the moderators- I don't care what your opinion on whether you ar arguing or not is. Stop it now.

Just to re-iterate- canon refers to an OFFICIAL collection of something. There is no such thing as canon depending on your opinion- there is just opinion on what you do or do not like. But canon still exists regardless, separate from anyone's opinion on the matter. I cannot help it if you are simply wrong about the meaning of the word.

I will close this thread if it cannot stick to the point, and after these warnings I will ban people that keep trying to argue about this. Our position on such canon debates is extremely clear.

I will ban you if you carry this on, DK.

End of the line, DK.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
DK, this is a final warning for you to stop arguing with the moderators- I don't care what your opinion on whether you ar arguing or not is. Stop it now.

Just to re-iterate- canon refers to an OFFICIAL collection of something. There is no such thing as canon depending on your opinion- there is just opinion on what you do or do not like. But canon still exists regardless, separate from anyone's opinion on the matter. I cannot help it if you are simply wrong about the meaning of the word.

I will close this thread if it cannot stick to the point, and after these warnings I will ban people that keep trying to argue about this. Our position on such canon debates is extremely clear.

I will ban you if you carry this on, DK.

Ah, but you're still threatening me as though I'm arguing canon. I'm not. I never have been. I'm saying it is within the right of the average consumer to decide for themselves what is or is not canon for them, and you're all acting like I'm telling you guys what to think. On top of that, I'm not arguing with moderators, I'm conversing with other Star Wars fans. That Queeq is a moderator doesn't influence the conversation.

You feel free to ban me, though. That's your job. However, I don't understand how you could look at quotes like:





as anything other than a challenge. A challenge you yourself would not back down from. Perhaps that is how it works here. Or maybe Queeq's balls have dropped off and he can't ban me himself so he'll keep challenging and insulting me into contesting his position until he can talk you into doing it for him.

Sigh... some people simply don't learn...

Originally posted by Devil King
as anything other than a challenge. A challenge you yourself would not back down from. Perhaps that is how it works here. Or maybe Queeq's balls have dropped off and he can't ban me himself so he'll keep challenging and insulting me into contesting his position until he can talk you into doing it for him.

Nope he doesn't learn. It's not like modding is only about banning peeps. If that was it was all about, DK, you'd have been a goner ages ago.

you could have simply reiterated the annoying mess that EU fanboys create when there is no law of cannon. i think thats the most understandable point of the rule and the very reason why it is so strictly enforced. instead you guys did the stonewall/bait&challenge bit. in the end you all look kinda silly.

just my 2 cents

later

Good Lord, what is this great loss in common sense lately? Coming in and spamming with criticism of the mods like that after a decision is harsly appropiate, Schecter. That's an official warning for you as well.

Canon policy on these boards has been made clear and will not be argued or debated. Stonewalling is indeed what you will get if you try- a complete shut down of any attempt to debate it. If you want reasons, just look at the noted threads about canon which contain all the reasons we use, and do not intend to discuss.

funny since i did not insult anyone or try to perpetuate the argument. simply stated an opinion on how the last 2 pages could have been better avoided. yet you lash out with hostility and official warnings and reprimand me like im a child, acusing me of spamming (?) and criticising a decision when i clearly did not.

have your last word or even ban be, but i will not dignify this blatant hostility and baiting any further.

later

Things are getting out of hand... Mesa dunno liken dis.

Originally posted by Schecter
funny since i did not insult anyone or try to perpetuate the argument. simply stated an opinion on how the last 2 pages could have been better avoided. yet you lash out with hostility and official warnings and reprimand me like im a child, acusing me of spamming (?) and criticising a decision when i clearly did not.

have your last word or even ban be, but i will not dignify this blatant hostility and baiting any further.

later

Spamming because I specified that talk was to return to subject, which your post was not, and calling us silly for simply enforcing our rules is attacking the moderators for making a deicison, simple as that. Your entire post was a waste of time in a situation where I had directly speicifed that such posts were no longer to be made; your opinion should have simply been kept to yourself.

So not funny at all- very serious, in fact. As ever, your opinion on that is not wanted. This is now your final warning before a ban. And if I catch you at any future point making such ridiclous accusations of hosility and baiting you will be banned also.

never said it was funny. just said you guys looked silly.

never said it was just the mods, i meant devilking included.

if you wish to end this, you can take the low road and ban me or you can stop libeling me and baiting me as well with your internet-cop talk. in fact i would wager that you're taking this tone with me just to invoke a response.

however if the current and future policy of kmc is to moderate while trolling for a response through aggressive, insulting, and antagonistic jabbing, i really dont care what you do with my account.

edit: let me just save you the trouble

Well, the point of this thread is all gone. So it ends here. No need to get ugly over nonsense. CLOSING.