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Papa Smurph



vs

Digimark007



Area

Well it goes like this, I will be inside my helmet consoling with Nabu and amping myself up via rage hexes and illusions and Nabu smack talk which are all legal maneuvers

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=479746&pagenumber=5

36 hours, of playing with my rage, and making myself as angry as possible, I'll be at least at the level Hulk was on when he handled a 10x Warrior's Madness Thor with one arm.

Match begins I will put up my aversion field and just jump up and down in the cave to create a cave-in while turning myself invisible and intangible

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Invisible.jpg

, which will distract the other team, with either Habib and Thor helping Richards and Luthor or Habib ignoring Richards and Luthor and creating a chemistry riff. Either one works, and then, with their focus on saving their allies they won't have time to react to my invisible spell


Before I teleport behind what I detect to be an extremely powerful and corrupt individual in Habib through whatever rubble is left from the immediate after effects of the cave-in like this


http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/teleport.jpg

and instead of zapping him with magic I'll introduce him to a hellacious force field of pure chaos

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Chaos.jpg

which should he somehow survive (note: Fate using it on the human Curse for those saying he won't kill a mage with malicious intent) will utterly blow his mind, taking him out the match.

After seeing this Thor will likely use Mjlonir to detect me (or whatever just put his ally in that goofy shield) and remove whatever invisibility hex I put on myself and then he'll try to slug it out and fail miserably because of my aversion field that Digi hasn't told anyone how he'll get around. Well, knowing Thor he'll probably spin his hammer, yell something corny, then throw it and miss allowing me to jump at him (though I don't need for this to happen to get in close, can't be hit directly and Thor doesn't know this).

I will then grab him, since with my aversion field up he can't counter me in any way up close, slam him into a ground manifest a mystical club construct

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/DaClub.jpg

and slam it into his face until Thor's no longer conscious.

Lex and Reed are really irrelevant and they're taken out by an energy beam or whatever, who cares, I'll just put an illusion into their head that I'm the other person (Reed sees Lex as Fate and Lex sees Reed as Fate) until I get done with the heavy hitters.

Just a quick note: the "Instant tech" purchase allows someone to instantly manifest technology when their team does not possess the power to do so on their own. Since my tech creation involves my team's inherent powers, it does not fall under instant tech, and therefore needs no purchase.

I've been over this multiple times, both during drafts, via Evangel in PM, and in various matches. It's completely legal, and has been confirmed as such multiple times. Evangel even made a clarifying post not long ago to discuss this very thing. Apparently, you missed it.

So nice try, but my entire prep is valid.

I'll get to your stuff in a second.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Just a quick note: the "Instant tech" purchase allows someone to instantly manifest technology when their team does not possess the power to do so on their own.

No it doesn't, stop being a Trickster, the examples provided were two people's who's ability is to create tech on the spot otherwise I just have Nabu manifest the Spear of Destiny and run a wtf pwn train on whatever silly mechanisms you cojured up.


Which is nothing but 'summoning' a bunch of canon fodder that can be taken out with 1 Thunderclap.


How will my inability to see inside the helmet prevent me from using the calming thoughts on your amalgam? That doesn't even begin to make sense.

Because you won't be able to spy on my team and see what you're doing and who you're facing. Your Doctor/Thor level portals or whatever are not above Extant possessing 99.9% of the Worlogog.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Section 3: Rules and Regulations

Motivation: The winners will each be granted their single most fondest wish. The losers will see their single most loved one destroyed/killed/obliterated.

Yeah and this implies that Reed Richards is selfish enough to allow Lex Luthor have the technology to wtfpwn the tech inferior DCverse. The threat of having his loved ones killed doesn't trump the psychological fear he has for Luthor types based on his relationship with his father and the fact that he's been taken advantage of by Luthor types in the past or that Reed and Thor's stance on killing is a conflict of interest with Doctor's and Luthor's

And your Doctor elab is all wordplay, Doctor's all have the past experience that they can summon upon by consulting the previous Doctors but not the competence or experience. Hence Habib being useless and mocked by Quantum through most of Revolution.

- Jeroen's a druggy....irrelevant. I have Habib. Jeroen's memories and experiences, sure, but not his personality.

Exactly you have HABIB'S personality, and his personality is JUST AS flakey and underachieving as Jeroen's which is why he STILL hasn't used his powers to even 1/1000th of the efficiency of the evil Doctor you're quoting. You don't have the evil Doctor, you have Habib, who has yet to show that he can make himself super strong or work with near efficiency given the cramps on his powers as placed by the rules as the evil Doctor.


"Hell, go back and look at the Italy feat I posted...he calls upon past Doctors to help him directly."

Exactly, if Habib wants to use Jeroen's ability he will have to ask him how he did it, mid battle, while I'm dropping the cave on your team, and getting up close and personal in your face and have that aversion field blocking your direct retaliation.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Well it goes like this, I will be inside my helmet consoling with Nabu and amping myself up via rage hexes and illusions and Nabu smack talk which are all legal maneuvers

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=479746&pagenumber=5

Linking to past matches, and not even a specific post, means I'm not sure what you're trying to show us. Regardless, any rage-inducing is counter-acted by my empathic onslaught of every calming thought in human history...such mind-numbing serenity cannot be put into words.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
36 hours, of playing with my rage, and making myself as angry as possible, I'll be at least at the level Hulk was on when he handled a 10x Warrior's Madness Thor with one arm.

Play with yourself all you want ( ), but it's still negated the same way as my last point.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Match begins I will put up my aversion field and just jump up and down in the cave to create a cave-in while turning myself invisible and intangible

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Invisible.jpg

We'll deal with invisible/intangible first.

Doctor can become intangible:
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=intangiblelj9.jpg
Or invisible with a thought as well.

And the aversion field: the one main point I didn't address in my writeup. Mainly, it's not that big of a deal, but I was saving it for once you mentioned it.

Basically, we have too many "spread" attacks for this to even be an issue. If I were attacking H2H, it might be a different story. But I'm not. World War Doctor (hundreds of feet tall with super-strength and an energy-defeating shield in front of him) can go all "Doctor SMASH!" on you and either destroy the ground, thunderclap, or simply create an offensive bolt so large that it's unavoidable (the latter is probably the easiest).

Thor has omni-directional lightning attacks at his disposal:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Thor/thoromnidirectionattack.jpg

And all Reed has to do is have his creations do some spread attacks (Thor, Iron Man, etc.) while the rest of them keep you busy. I'd be interested to see how spider-sense affects an aversion field, but that would be too big a tangent for our match.

...

Oh, and this is interesting...Thor can absorb magical energy:
http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magicabsorbfm0.jpg
...so anything you hurl at him is a moot point, and will be returned x100:
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=energyabsorb1pw0.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=energyabsorb2oo5.png
http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=energyabsorb3wj8.png


....

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
No it doesn't, stop being a Trickster, the examples provided were two people's who's ability is to create tech on the spot otherwise I just have Nabu manifest the Spear of Destiny and run a wtf pwn train on whatever silly mechanisms you cojured up.

A Trickster? *cough*

No, Trick merely assumed that his illegal prep would be allowed. I, on the other hand, checked with Evangel via PM and confirmed it in the discussion thread before attempting to use it. If you missed all of it, it's your own fault.

No one else even bothered to challenge it, because they saw Evangel's announcement and know my plan is legal. I have a PM in to Evangel so she can put this to rest (again...)

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Which is nothing but 'summoning' a bunch of canon fodder that can be taken out with 1 Thunderclap.


How will my inability to see inside the helmet prevent me from using the calming thoughts on your amalgam? That doesn't even begin to make sense.

Because you won't be able to spy on my team and see what you're doing and who you're facing. Your Doctor/Thor level portals or whatever are not above Extant possessing 99.9% of the Worlogog.

*story mode*
Beginning of prep...
Doctor: *opens portal*
Lex: Hey, it's Dr. Fate!
Thor: Using Hulk's body, apparently.
Reed: Oop! They're disappearing now.
Everyone: Ok then, let's get to work.

That's all I need. Go play with your helmet.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Originally posted by Evangel94
Section 3: Rules and Regulations

Motivation: The winners will each be granted their single most fondest wish. The losers will see their single most loved one destroyed/killed/obliterated.

Yeah and this implies that Reed Richards is selfish enough to allow Lex Luthor have the technology to wtfpwn the tech inferior DCverse. The threat of having his loved ones killed doesn't trump the psychological fear he has for Luthor types based on his relationship with his father and the fact that he's been taken advantage of by Luthor types in the past or that Reed and Thor's stance on killing is a conflict of interest with Doctor's and Luthor's

Relationship with his father? Wtf is this stuff....

Anyway, you're missing the obvious. Reed isn't sharing his tech with Lex. Reed is using Reed's tech, and Lex is using Lex's tech. All Lex sees is Reed wearing a helmet....how is that supposed to be threatening to Reed??

But thanks for posting the "motivation" section again. It really helps my cause.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
And your Doctor elab is all wordplay, Doctor's all have the past experience that they can summon upon by consulting the previous Doctors but not the competence or experience. Hence Habib being useless and mocked by Quantum through most of Revolution.

- Jeroen's a druggy....irrelevant. I have Habib. Jeroen's memories and experiences, sure, but not his personality.

Exactly you have HABIB'S personality, and his personality is JUST AS flakey and underachieving as Jeroen's which is why he STILL hasn't used his powers to even 1/1000th of the efficiency of the evil Doctor you're quoting. You don't have the evil Doctor, you have Habib, who has yet to show that he can make himself super strong or work with near efficiency given the cramps on his powers as placed by the rules as the evil Doctor.

Prove it. Habib's as flaky as Jeroen? Prove it...and not when he was 5 minutes old as the Doctor, but when he could use his powers.

Habib doesn't have the experiences of past Doctors? Prove it. I have about 3-4 scans already to prove my point.

He has to "consult" with Doctors? Prove it. Or rather, prove my multiple scans wrong. He talks with them, and doesn't always have all of their knowledge at once (which would destroy anyone's mind), but can access their knowledge any time he wants. Because otherwise, you're just making sh*t up.

And Evil Doctor is part of his experiences (hell Jeroen flat-out states that he has the evil Doctor's experiences), so saying that he used his powers better (which he probably didn't...Jeroen has some uber feats, and Habib is catching up in a hurry with feats) is irrelevant as well. Maybe he did, but it's all available to Habib.

Lol I'm not about to debate since apparently instant tech only applies to people like Stonecutter and Engineer but not Doctor just because......

But to point out something that's pretty glaring about your overestimation of the Doctor and distorting of facts

There have been NO Habib scans posted in this topic
there are NO Habib scans really posted in even the respect thread
there probably will NEVER be a HABIB scan posted in any of digi's matches

and there is a reason for this

The only thing Habib has demonstrated in the actual Authority books is making Rose Tattoo good and freezing Majestic (illegal type maneuver) outside of that, he's pretty much a punk with no real applicable battle prowess, to put into context in this IN-CHARACTER tourney. Should have chosen Jeroen if you planned on debating Jeroen. Because Habib hasn't really shown to be as competent as you're implying, in-fact Hawksmoore has had to reprimand him on his childish demeanor in the heat of combat.

Glad that you haven't attempted to debate my plan and instead stand steadfast in your ability to instantly create tech without instant tech creation, just like Trickster.

Oh and, if Extant with the Worlogog couldn't find Fate inside his amulet, how does Habib? Especially with only 15 minutes?

Are you saying he's more knowledgeable (omniscient) then Extant with the Gog? Or is able to transverse universes Extant can't with the Gog?

^That's how much Digi overrates the Authority.

PS: How does Thor instantly deduce it's Hulk when he's fully clothed in Fate gear?

^ Another overration? Thor isn't Batman.

You don't read much Authority, do you? The Habib feats you listed are the only ones I was able to get around to posting in the respect thread...but that was I think over a year ago.

Anyway, I'll try to sate your insatiable need for Habib feats later on, but it's a busy day and we're doing Easter today. The main reason is that I haven't had time to scan newer stuff into my cpu, so I don't have much of Habib's latest stuff scanned into my cpu.

But the point all along is that it doesn't matter. If the Doctor didn't have every Doctor's past experiences, I would've drafted Jeroen. But he does, so everything in this thread is valid. The onus will remain on you to prove otherwise. Until then, I've shown everything I need to via scans, and you have a scan-less smear campaign.

And I have debated your plan, and mine...quit making stuff up to seem smarter.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
You don't read much Authority, do you? The Habib feats you listed are the only ones I was able to get around to posting in the respect thread...but that was I think over a year ago.

Because, they're the only ones he has. Unless he's done something amazing in Authority Prime he hasn't done anything noteworthy and you saying that's a year ago doesn't really mean much because

THE AUTHORITY HAS BEEN IN 4-5 COMICS SINCE THEN




And I have debated your plan, and mine...quit making stuff up to seem smarter.

You posted it as I was typing.

Originally posted by DigiMark007




Play with yourself all you want ( ), but it's still negated the same way as my last point.


Which is null because despite your high opinion of the Doctor, he's not anymore knowledgeable or powerful then Extant with the Gog who couldn't pin point Fate's location inside the amulet.


Doctor can become intangible:
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=intangiblelj9.jpg
Or invisible with a thought as well.

Oh look, another NON-HABIB feat. But intangibility isn't really my attacking point, it's the chaos shield I've wrapped you in, tearing asunder your concepts of what is right and what is wrong.

And your big ass body.

Basically, we have too many "spread" attacks for this to even be an issue.

Why? Your characters don't even know about my aversion field unless I tell them and it'd be pretty out of character for Thor to start creating explosions and AOE attacks with Richards and Luthor near by.

If I were attacking H2H, it might be a different story.

Which is what it comes down to with Hulking being vs. Thor.

World War Doctor (hundreds of feet tall with super-strength and an energy-defeating shield in front of him) can go all "Doctor SMASH!"

How? He's being dissapated by my chaos shield and can't hit me?

Oh and prove Habib will grow to those heights.





I'll wait.


Thor has omni-directional lightning attacks at his disposal:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Thor/thoromnidirectionattack.jpg

Which is nice and all, but Thor's getting his face bashed in because he's not clever enough to deduce my 'weakness'


And all Reed has to do is have his creations do some spread attacks (Thor, Iron Man, etc.)

Why? You don't get instant tech, you haven't purchased it or my prep is basically Nabu summoning the Spear of Destiny and Hector whiping your team out in 10 seconds.


Oh, and this is interesting...Thor can absorb magical energy:


Which is nice considering Thor's getting punched out and his face bashed in, in my plan.

What's the problem here? question

Anyway to sum things up in a nice little package and give a detailed response for the voters.

Digi's plan falls apart because he assumes 2 things:

1.) He can instantly create tech without having buying the instant tech abilities and his 'loophole' should be taken as acceptable
2.) He assumes the Doctor will be able to detect what is stated that Extant with 99.9% of the Worlogog couldn't.

His counters to my plan are his characters have abilities that don't really matter and Thor somehow knows Hulk's powers are rage related (the basis of this is Hulk smack talk that isn't taken for more then face value in any of their encounters) and can absorb stuff I'm not using on him.

Even if the voters think Digi's 'loophole' is perfectly legal the only persons capable of lasting more then a few seconds who he will be 'summoning' are Ult Thor, and a few irrelevant bricks (can't hit me, remember, I have a aversion field) and I think the consensus opinion of Ult Thor is that he's a chump (I agree).

So in the end it will basically come down to Thor versus the Untouchable World War Hector who's already been power amped but through the course of the fight has only been getting stronger. Thor has no real method of preventing me from doing what I said I was going to (get in close and knock his lights out, it'd be awesome if Hector made a battlehammer like Mjlonir instead of the mace I planned), the omni-directional attack works, but at that point Hector will be too strong to be put down by those and will only get stronger and tank them better with every passing attack ticking him off more and more.

Thor's tough, but Hulk's tougher.

Originally posted by Evangel94
What's the problem here? confused

Digi's creating tech out of thin air without the instant tech ability.

Voting for Digi.

The reasons: Smurph has tried to debunk Digi's prep and his skills and in my opinion has failed, he also came to the weird spot when I ask myself in his attire transpires if he either looks like Hulk with a helmet or like a huge fate.

The double standard he sets of him consulting Nabu in his helmet being right (in a past match) and Digi being unable to use the past experience of the Doctor being wrong has not escaped my eyes. More the reason to vote Digi.

Originally posted by Bentley
Voting for Digi.

The reasons: Smurph has tried to debunk Digi's prep and his skills and in my opinion has failed, he also came to the weird spot when I ask myself in his attire transpires if he either looks like Hulk with a helmet or like a huge fate.

The double standard he sets of him consulting Nabu in his helmet being right (in a past match) and Digi being unable to use the past experience of the Doctor being wrong has not escaped my eyes. More the reason to vote Digi.

Pretty much.

Stacks has utterly failed at trying to dispel any of Digi's prep, and has been entirely ineffective in combating him in general.

DigiMark007 takes this, as they say, ten out of ten.

^so would the double standard of Digi saying I can't use past Fate's (despite the same spell bank and guiding voice) while he's able to use past Doctor's apply here as well?

If you have the ability to instantly create technology, and plan on using it, then you need to buy instant tech.

If you plan on using matter manipulation then to create tech, then you better have the knowledge and the preparation time to do so in a realistic manner given the time you bought.

Let's take darthgoober's match for example,
He bought 15 minutes of prep, silver surfer, and super adaptoid as an amalgam. He argued that using surfer's matter manipulation and super adaptoids mind he could create 6 billion (highly unrealistic) super adaptoids in 15 minutes. Darthgoober while not being able to create that high number of adaptoids in 15 minutes, he could still perhaps create maybe one to two adaptoid copies max; that being enough to counter Digimark007's team and that was reflected in the votes.

According to Digimark007 himself The Doctor is...


He can't create tech instantly, but he could attempt to create tech. How much he could create in 15 minutes is definitely limited so it would be up to Digimark to focus on what he wants to create in that limited time frame and limited field resources. He can attempt to spy on Papa Smurph to see what he is doing if he so chooses. Plausibility of successful spying is dependant on write-up.

Papa Smurph on the other hand has 36 hours prep, but no knowledge of the opposition. So he has more leeway to argue what he can do in that time frame, but is limited to doing things without knowledge of who he is fighting.

With that in mind I am nullifying all votes, and ask everyone to vote again taking this in mind.

So basically in 15 minutes

Lex, Reed, Thor and Habib will
put aside there differences
attempt to find what Extant with 99.9% of the Worlogog couldn't
Mind meld
Re-create high end 'Superman' level tech at a much less then instant rate
Re-create Reed Richards level tech at a much less then instant rate
Habib will be doing all this while consulting with the previous Doctors as we know he hasn't shown able to do it on his own.
and after having come up with all that, strategise my downfall.


That's alot to do in 15 minutes.

Originally posted by Evangel94


With that in mind I am nullifying all votes, and ask everyone to vote again taking this in mind.

Originally posted by Soljer
Pretty much.

Stacks has utterly failed at trying to dispel any of Digi's prep, and has been entirely ineffective in combating him in general.

DigiMark007 takes this, as they say, ten out of ten.

If PapaSmurph can't see who he is fighting at all or that he is being spied why would his character prep in the helmet or hidden at all?

That's where Nabu and company are. Been using the tactics from jump street.

Well, I've giving it some thought after what Evangel posted and reading PapaSmurph's post I vote for Digi.

If Digi had relied entirely in tech as in the previous match I may had to take another choice, but I find that there is enough firepower in Digi's team to fairly say he wins even if one supposes he will only make one artifact and knowing that Smurph cannot explicitly prepare for those opponents.

What I'm wondering is how Digi will ultimately put me down. Only thing I've seen is him putting happy thoughts in my head (with the shakey basis that Thor is aware of how his powers work based on childish Savage Hulk bragging) which can be overridden through my own magic tinkering and the fact that my rage will be higher then the Hulk who was shrugging off everything Strange threw at him and the combined telepathic assault of Emma Frost and Professor X (which is ignoring the fact that the Hulk at this point had made a pact with Banner to revert only when he chose, happyness or not, as he will living in bliss with his wife and kids without un-Hulking).

There's nothing in Digi's repertoire that can ultimately put me down while there's plenty in mine that can whipe his team out.

Voting for Digi.

Nonetheless, I seriously doubt that he will win with anywhere near the ease he implies. Habib isn't Jerone, it will probably be far from as simple to accomplish what he wants to.

Stacks has utterly failed to prove any of his counters to Digi's prep. He has failed to show an effective way to harm his opponent. The sheer power of Stack's team is comendable but besides poor attempts to attack Digi's character and strawman analysis of his prep there is nothing I can see forming an argument.

I've failed to show an effective way to harm the people on Digi's team?

Correct.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Voting for Digi.

Stacks has utterly failed.

Coulda just stopped there. ermm.

Originally posted by Thats_My_Monkey
Correct.

So the chaos field I put Habib in and the >>>>>>>>> World War Hulk mace shots to the face I used on Thor won't hurt them?

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
^so would the double standard of Digi saying I can't use past Fate's (despite the same spell bank and guiding voice) while he's able to use past Doctor's apply here as well?

He has the experiences of past Doctors, but is always Habib. You replaced Hector with Nabu last match. BIG difference. Though I have no problem with Nabu giving him advice.

Anyway, you wanted Habib feats:

http://img394.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ap03004fe5.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ap03005au7.jpg



There's others...all of which are equally as impressive as Jeroen's. But this should be enough to get you to be quiet.

Originally posted by Evangel94
If you plan on using matter manipulation then to create tech, then you better have the knowledge and the preparation time to do so in a realistic manner given the time you bought.

I have the knowledge and the powers. And Doctor's matter manip, while very quick, isn't instantaneous, but easily fits into my 15 minutes of prep. So yeah, there you go.

I'd like to know exactly why anyone is still questioning this (I realize people have voted for me so far, but haven't fully endorsed the Doctor thing). It's part of his power set....you aren't The Doctor unless you have the experiences and memories of past Doctors.

So please, if you have misgivings, please tell me what they are. I'd like to address any possible concerns, because everything I'm doing is not only possible but entirely normal for my characters, especially Habib.

Let's break it down, shall we:

http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=134tb.jpg
From scan: "I've got the experiences of all you guys put together."

http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15ea1.jpg
From scan: "I was the ultimate Shaman, remember? The sum of every Doctor who had come before me, including you."

The other complaint seems to be Habib, who, mind you, has all the experiences of Jeroen (the sum of every prior Doctor).

In addition to the scans above me, here's a couple others I managed to dig up on short notice (besides the ones in the respect thread that Joey erroneously labeled his "only feats"

Teleportation: http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=habib1re4.jpg
Matter manipulation, time travel, dimensional portals, etc.: http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=habib2lh1.jpg

Now let's make it pertinent to this match. The following is a quote from Joey in a Surfer v. Jenny Quantum match:
Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Q 7/10.

She's generally more powerful, though I can see Surfer taking advantage of her arrogance and such. Surfer more then has the tools and, given his current no-nonsense state of mind, the balls to win, but generally speaking Q's just too much.

Aaaannd....Sha-BAM!
http://img394.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ap03004fe5.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ap03005au7.jpg

....

In any case, Joey's only defense has been to say "This isn't Habib!! Hahaha."

I realize that. I drafted him for a reason...which is, exactly what I explained above. All feats are valid. No exceptions. To say anything less is to ignore the Doctor's entire character.

...

So, my skyscraper-tall super-strength, energy-nullifying behemoth of a Doctor, the one who made the thought-helmet and Super-suit for my non-heralds.....that guy is here in full force. Deal with it Smurph.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Anyway to sum things up in a nice little package and give a detailed response for the voters.

Digi's plan falls apart because he assumes 2 things:

1.) He can instantly create tech without having buying the instant tech abilities and his 'loophole' should be taken as acceptable
2.) He assumes the Doctor will be able to detect what is stated that Extant with 99.9% of the Worlogog couldn't.

His counters to my plan are his characters have abilities that don't really matter and Thor somehow knows Hulk's powers are rage related (the basis of this is Hulk smack talk that isn't taken for more then face value in any of their encounters) and can absorb stuff I'm not using on him.

Even if the voters think Digi's 'loophole' is perfectly legal the only persons capable of lasting more then a few seconds who he will be 'summoning' are Ult Thor, and a few irrelevant bricks (can't hit me, remember, I have a aversion field) and I think the consensus opinion of Ult Thor is that he's a chump (I agree).

So in the end it will basically come down to Thor versus the Untouchable World War Hector who's already been power amped but through the course of the fight has only been getting stronger. Thor has no real method of preventing me from doing what I said I was going to (get in close and knock his lights out, it'd be awesome if Hector made a battlehammer like Mjlonir instead of the mace I planned), the omni-directional attack works, but at that point Hector will be too strong to be put down by those and will only get stronger and tank them better with every passing attack ticking him off more and more.

Thor's tough, but Hulk's tougher.

Wow. Ok, where to begin.

His 2 points to invalidate my team are both moot. The first one was proven wrong by Evangel's ruling, and my display that The Doctor is more than capable of doing this.

Also, it's important to note that Joey didn't question Doctor's ability to do any of it (because it's actually very very simple for him)....he just called it illegal. Which is false, as we saw. So the whole plan works wonderfully.

...

As for spying, it doesn't really affect my team much anyway. The only Smurph-specific tactic is the empathic calming. Otherwise, my entire prep remains.

...

Oh, and I wanted to show this!

http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=th2hf2.jpg

Rawr!

Anyway, I realize Ultimate Thor didn't stop Hulk, but I do have Ultimate Thor, and he will make a difference in this fight. And it's just a badass pic.

Or maybe ANOTHER omni-directional lightning attack (the aversion field isn't looking so hot right about now...
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tc1py3.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tc2tu3.jpg
or this:
http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thoremplg7.jpg



In Conclusion

- I have World War Doctor stomping the crap out of things and raining holy death on Smurph
- And the Ultimates, via Reed's thought-creation helmet.
- And Thor, whose omni-directional blasts will deal with Fate, and who can absorb magical energy.
- And Lex, though he can basically just be a Superman-level distractor in this match
- And thus about 10 different ways to attack him, and about a dozen people total attacking due to The Ultimates.
- My prep has been validated by Evangel's ruling, and everything I'm doing is legal.
- I've proven to a ridiculous degree why everything I'm doing is well within my characters' powers, particularly The Doctor
- Stacks has...a chaos blast and Hulk. Meh.
- His lone defense has been to yell about my entire prep and strategy being either impossible or illegal. It is neither, as I have shown beyond any doubt.
- If you have ANY doubts about my strategy, refer either to my writeup or the last few posts where I validate things even further. If anyone doesn't believe that my plan is well within my limits, it is either willful ignorance or inherent bias against the characters, and in no way reflects their actual feats (which validate everything beyond a shadow of a doubt).

Off to watch PITT in the tourney now. Have a good one everyone.

Voting for digi for the previously stated reasons.

Originally posted by Evangel94
There are three things wrong with this.

1. The device is reality manipulation, which you did not purchase.

2. Summoning extra help. I pointed out King Kandy couldn't summon demons from other dimensions to help either.

3. Only one version of a character may be used. For example, if the 616 version of Wolverine is taken, his Ultimate version is off-limits. Since you have regular Thor on your team already, you can't use Ultimate Thor.

They're just solid-light holograms. No summoning, no reality manipulation.

Not arguing for Digi, just clearing that up.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
They're just solid-light holograms. No summoning, no reality manipulation.

Not arguing for Digi, just clearing that up. Yeah I wanted to point that out but was worried about appearing to be arguing for digi.. although its not like Eva wasn't just arguing AGAINST Digi...

How's there a difference between using Nabu to take control and give advice when he's shown to do both?

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Nabucontrollage.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Nabu.jpg


So basically your Habib feats from Authority Prime are hearsay and healing? Good show.

Did you just imply Ultimate Hulk who was originally written to be below post-Other Spiderman (IIRC his original class was 20 tons as the Ultimate uinverse was supposed to be more 'realistic') in strength is as impressive as World War? Amazing.



Anyway, your prep doesn't really matter, you still haven't given a way to beat me other then say alot of ways to manipulate the rules, and you still are suspect to my plan.

Which is divide and conquer. Only thing different is that now instead of taking out Luthor with a blast, World War Hector takes him in the manner with which he took out Iron Man's Hulk buster, except this time he's stronger, has magic and an aversion field you can't really counter.

Ult Thor hasn't shown to be more impressive then either Thing, Shulk or Ares physically and durability wise and all three are people World War Hulk at weaker levels put down with one punch (Thing was two ).


And World War Habib based on Jeroen feats STILL hasn't found a way to counter my Chaos field (though that doesn't really matter since the burden is on me to disprove everything or whatever).

Your plan is still nothing but a bunch of fluff which consists of summoning a bunch of people who pose no threat, giving Lex Luthor Iron Man level armor and Thor spinning his hammer and screaming.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah I wanted to point that out but was worried about appearing to be arguing for digi.. although its not like Eva wasn't just arguing AGAINST Digi...

Because Digi's prep of summoning a bunch of mid tiers and inability to outright tell how he wins and deals with most of my powers was truthfully a good enough reason for him to win .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
They're just solid-light holograms. No summoning, no reality manipulation.

Not arguing for Digi, just clearing that up.

If that's true, I stand corrected.

Anyway, this match will last up until the next match is posted, so feel free to continue debating if you so choose.

I always wonder why people seem to think Matter Manipulation will take extreme amounts of time? In every comic I have read about matter manipulation it happens pretty quickly (which is why I could believe Darth having his army of created duplicated).

Either way, I'm voting Digi

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I always wonder why people seem to think Matter Manipulation will take extreme amounts of time? In every comic I have read about matter manipulation it happens pretty quickly (which is why I could believe Darth having his army of created duplicated).


Not that I want to interrupt the match, but I think I'll share my thoughts...

Really depends on how complex the matter is and how intelligent the user is. Turning a rock into metal or steel shield is one thing, but turning a piece of rock into complex battle suit or complex computer guided tank is another. Remember Molecule Man? He couldn't reform Iron Man's armor because he couldn't understand the complicated circuitry or technology behind it, but had no problem reforming Cap's shield or Thor's hammer.

In regards to goober's match,
It also depends on the raw materials available and the time your have. Does one have the metal allow that might be necessary for certain circuits or parts? What if there is none available on the battlefield? Do you sacrafice quality for quantity? Do you really have the time or energy to create that many? Can you even fit 6 billion people inside a sphere with a diameter 10 miles wide let alone even make that many? 6 billion is roughly the population of human's on the earth.



If matter manipulation becomes anymore of a problem in this tournament, I'll definitely put a limit on it.

Voting For Digi

I really don't think that Stacks would be able to match Digi's power

The match is over?

Meh, I guess next tourney I'll fill my posts with fluff and employ out of character tactics in an in-character tourney and squeeze in a bunch of loopholes.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
The match is over?

Meh, I guess next tourney I'll fill my posts with fluff and employ out of character tactics in an in-character tourney and squeeze in a bunch of loopholes. hey papa smurph, just one suggestion for you in future debates is to organize your arguments a bit more clearly

when you have long paragraph posts...adding a clear bold label helps voters a great deal in understanding your points. Sometimes when you make a long post without separating your points clearly, many people don't read it carefully or understand it as well.

I thought you made a good point in raising doubt to Digi's prep, but would've liked it if you organized your points more clearly.

to me, this is another hard read/contemplation to decipher the victor.

master-borg makes a great point, concise points must be made against a tournament vet of digi's caliber.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
What I'm wondering is how Digi will ultimately put me down. Only thing I've seen is him putting happy thoughts in my head (with the shakey basis that Thor is aware of how his powers work based on childish Savage Hulk bragging) which can be overridden through my own magic tinkering and the fact that my rage will be higher then the Hulk who was shrugging off everything Strange threw at him and the combined telepathic assault of Emma Frost and Professor X (which is ignoring the fact that the Hulk at this point had made a pact with Banner to revert only when he chose, happyness or not, as he will living in bliss with his wife and kids without un-Hulking).

There's nothing in Digi's repertoire that can ultimately put me down while there's plenty in mine that can whipe his team out.

Voting for Digi just for sake of you, Stacks, telling shameless lies. Emma DIDN'T even tried to use telepathy on Huc in that ark, instead she telepathically hold X down and then was magically turned into dumb blonde and went HAND TO HAND with Huc.
You can talk shizzle about Jack but please keep your dirty little hands away from Emma- where the f*ck did you get that "combined assault" BS? Xavier just read his mind, said some "elemental of rage" BS and did nothing more, Emma, the best mental surgeon in marvelverse, didn't try any unorthodoxal TP means (thing she's very good) on Huc but went BRAWLING with him...stupid thing only to establish that Emma is a solid class 50 hitter in her diamond form.

And as for the match, the reasons were pretty much stated above- your "analysis" has completely failed.

Zoink$

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Zoinks.jpg

but I guess the obvious bias in Charolotte's post already makes it a null opinion

Originally posted by Evangel94
Not that I want to interrupt the match, but I think I'll share my thoughts...

Really depends on how complex the matter is and how intelligent the user is. Turning a rock into metal or steel shield is one thing, but turning a piece of rock into complex battle suit or complex computer guided tank is another. Remember Molecule Man? He couldn't reform Iron Man's armor because he couldn't understand the complicated circuitry or technology behind it, but had no problem reforming Cap's shield or Thor's hammer.

But that's why I have Reed and Lex, who do know how to build the things I'm making. Problem solved.

Also, sorry for not clarifying, but Reed's helmet was just solid light constructs like Sym said.

Originally posted by Evangel94
If matter manipulation becomes anymore of a problem in this tournament, I'll definitely put a limit on it.

Why is it a problem? Because there's discussion on the characters that use it? That's to be expected in a tournament for any character. Smurph is an exception though, who has a hard time debating against someone without trying to trash their entire plan, even the parts that make perfect sense.

In any case, nothing I've ever done is against your rules, so I really hope we don't resort to making more limits...because it could ruin my (or others') plans entirely, and it wouldn't be consistent with the rules we drafted under.

....

Anyway, thanks for the votes everyone. My team seems to enjoy controversy, but I've proven everything to a ridiculous degree and also made sure everything I do is legal. So if it seems like I'm > some teams and meshes, well I guess I'm just that good.

313

Basically it comes down to my correct assertion of your clear violations of the rules but the voters not really caring.

I like how your plans make perfect sense

though they were clear loopholes that required a change/elaboration of the matter manip rule (which basically fit my original assessment of you being able to produce the raw materials but not the actual equipment).


Votes might not show it, but you sure did get worked

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Basically it comes down to my correct assertion of your clear violations of the rules but the voters not really caring.

Actually we listened to Evangel's original rulings

Which was feasibility. Feasibly speaking, impossible to create that much tech in 15 mintues without instant tech and do whatever over elaborate garbage he had planned.

I think that the Doctor and Thor have a chance of taking down your team with the tactical help of the other two geniuses. I tried to vote not considering if tech was invalid or not, and I was really close to lean to your side at several points of the argumentation, but according to Evangel's latest ruling we should play it as if Digi's prep still worked, giving him yet another edge to his side.

So my decision rests in the Doctor + Thor + brains against your amalgam and not the tech illegal or not. Debate that and prove me wrong.

I trapped the Doctor in a forcefield of chaos (which Digi danced around and conceeded and his basic argument was rawr Jeroen feats) and beat Thor by amping myself up to his Warriors Madness levels and the fact that in-character Thor would likely attempt to slug it out and fail miserably as in-character nobody on my team knows about my inability to be directly attacked.

Almost like how in-character the Doctor hasn't proven it feasible to use any of Digi's attacks as he himself has never even used them......ever.

Your such a sore loser.

Can you prove that you can cast such forcefield of chaos while boiling in rage?

Yup, the reason why Fate went to such brutal methods was because Curse did this to his woman

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Ouchies.jpg

I'm already pissed at stuff, so the motif is there.

I'm going to let Digi defend himself since this rule changing and discussion has been a little too eventful not to take into consideration, also the in-character thing is specially important regarding Thor.

As of now, I withdraw my vote.

Hes dropped out seeing as his whole plan has been ruined by shitty decisions from Ev.

Originally posted by Baloo
Hes dropped out seeing as his whole plan has been ruined by shitty decisions from Ev.

Who Digi or Papa Smurph?

I know.

Digi, you rock.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Who Digi or Papa Smurph?

Digi dropped out because he said what Doc will be doing or something and it was deemed OK but now theres complaints hes not allowed so his whole plan is ruined and his characters have been limited so he decided no point in taking part.

Or something like that.

For the record, I am done with the tourney, and have no designs on coming back. I could probably do some damage with Thor, a severely neutered Doctor, and whatever chip I have on my shoulder from the decision, but there's too many people left in the tourney that even I'd vote for against me at this point, whose debating skills are equal to mine, and whose teams are at least equal to what I'd currently be working with and probably much more powerful.

But I'd like to inform everyone of the situation, so that it never happens again in tournaments. The following is from PMs during drafts:

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Basically, I'm planning on pairing The Doctor with a tech-brain person and building all sorts of advanced tech with the D's powers and the other person's knowledge. I don't think this would require an insta-tech purchase, since I'm using matter manip. to accomplish it, but I'm not sure.


The following is from my recent match:

Originally posted by Evangel94
If you plan on using matter manipulation then to create tech, then you better have the knowledge and the preparation time to do so in a realistic manner given the time you bought.

According to Digimark007 himself The Doctor is...

He can't create tech instantly, but he could attempt to create tech. How much he could create in 15 minutes is definitely limited so it would be up to Digimark to focus on what he wants to create in that limited time frame and limited field resources. He can attempt to spy on Papa Smurph to see what he is doing if he so chooses. Plausibility of successful spying is dependant on write-up.

...so it was legal even during my match. It was only late in the match that it was declared illegal:

Originally posted by Evangel94
If matter manipulation becomes anymore of a problem in this tournament, I'll definitely put a limit on it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Why is it a problem? Because there's discussion on the characters that use it? That's to be expected in a tournament for any character. Smurph is an exception though, who has a hard time debating against someone without trying to trash their entire plan, even the parts that make perfect sense.

In any case, nothing I've ever done is against your rules, so I really hope we don't resort to making more limits...because it could ruin my (or others') plans entirely, and it wouldn't be consistent with the rules we drafted under.

No discussion took place on the matter after that point, and my points and questions were not addressed. It was deemed a problem (from, I can only speculate, Smurph's complaints and little else) and then banned.

...

I have stressed to others, and maintain now, that a person and a person's opinion are separate, and we need not bash a person if we disagree with them, however strong the disagreement is. I do, strongly, disagree with the decision to ban inorganic matter manipulation for tech creation, since it was established multiple times that it was legal. However, I'd ask everyone to refrain from making it a personal issue beyond the disagreement of opinions.

But I do want to use this as a platform to say that this is something that I don't think should EVER happen in tournaments. The time and money I spent amassing comics for this tournament have been instantly invalidated on a whim, and the fun I was having competing against others has been negated because I can no longer compete. And I'd like to think that the tourney itself has been lessened somewhat. If goober had still been in the tournament, he'd be in the same situation.

...

In the future, I'll be attempting to prepare a brief guide for tournament directors so that they are prepared for the many challenges that await them (because it's never as easy to host well as people think, so I empathize with nearly any tourney director) and possible pitfalls that have trapped past tourney directors, from time issues (either too slow or too fast), individual decisions, maintaining set power levels, etc. etc. because starting with ill's (or even dating back to Trick's failed attempt at a mutiny) there hasn't been a lot to be proud of in tournaments....the reasons differ, and many tried hard to make it work, but if the outcome is general apathy and/or negativity, something needs to be corrected.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Zoink$

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/Brobinson06/Zoinks.jpg

but I guess the obvious bias in Charolotte's post already makes it a null opinion You don't have the authority to null votes. You don't like the fact that WWH was full of bad writing, that's your perogative. But don't assume that you can say that someone's opinion is null like that. Only Eva has that authority (Sorry about attempting to tease you a little bit Eva. I had to drop the joke when Trick was taking it seriously.)

Hell, I'd like to change the reason for my vote to Digi because as this is also a debate tournament I as a judge am not impressed by all the violations of logic that Joey Stacks (Forget it there is only one Smurph on here and it aint you.) attempts to employ like this clear case of ad hominem.

Digi's arguments are both more feasable, they actually adhere to ALL the rules that ACTUALLY exist. and he presensts his case a a lot better.

Thanks Cresh. Nice to see his immaturity at least partially rewarded.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You don't like the fact that WWH was full of bad writing, that's your perogative.

There's an admission of bias which says his opinion really shouldn't count either. I drafted World War Hulk and pointed out that someone voted for me because they didn't like that WWH shrugged off an attack from their favorite character (even out and out accusing me of lying).

And now Creshosk has pointed out that he too feels WWH was 'full of bad writing'.

So in your eyes, does this make WWH street level?

He never once said that, are you stupid?

No, he said I didn't have the right to call out a voters integrity for randomly calling me a liar

and then mentioned that my characters showing is 'bad writing' and went on a rant about how Digi's employing of out of character tactics and instant tech was more feasible.

Clearly Creshosk is a unbiased source with a credible opinion.

No, not really.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
There's an admission of bias An admission of bias is me not liking how WWH played out? What are you drawing most of your arguments from that PIS-fest? No wonder you're not getting any ... votes.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
which says his opinion really shouldn't count either.Oh, new strategy.. get everyone who votes against you's votes nullified. Why not? YOu failed to get your opponents strategies declared illegal despite whining like a little *****. Makes sense that you'd do anything to win.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
I drafted World War Hulk and pointed out that someone voted for me because they didn't like that WWH shrugged off an attack from their favorite character (even out and out accusing me of lying).And you submitted a doctored picture. What's your point?

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
And now Creshosk has pointed out that he too feels WWH was 'full of bad writing'.And it was. God was Hulk a ****ing dumbass in WWH.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
So in your eyes, does this make WWH street level? Yes. That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. I'm saying that there was bad writing in WWH so that makes him street level... That is without a doubt 100% what I'm saying... good job finding that out!


...


OR did you miss the sarcasm due to your own over inflated sense of self worth getting oin your way?

I didn't like the charicterization, therefore Hulk is not as powerful as I think he should be?

How in hell did you arrive at that conclusion?

This isn't as a debate, but I'm just curious: after having posted all the different times where she said my prep was ok (which I'm hoping you read), do you still think it was always illegal? Or do you realize (correctly) that it was changed? Because if it's the former, you're just not reading what was written, and saying whatever you think best supports your cause. It's not even an opinion, it would just be objectively, provably, test-ably, wrong. If it's the latter, at least you understand the situation correctly, though you still insist on attacking me about it.

My plan is illegal. Now. But it wasn't when our match started, and had been declared ok in past instances when I asked about it. I just hope, for your own sake, you're able to comprehend that and that you don't simply form your interpretation to your will. Because it's just destructive self-delusion otherwise.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

My plan is illegal. Now.

No, actually it isn't. Evangel never said you plan is illegal.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
No, he said I didn't have the right to call out a voters integrity for randomly calling me a liar Which you didn't do. You said their opinion is null. Which you do not have the authority to decide.

Unless you'd like to cite me the non existant rule where contestants can null votes? Cause I'm pretty sure only the director can do that.

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
and then mentioned that my characters showing is 'bad writing' and went on a rant about how Digi's employing of out of character tactics and instant tech was more feasible.Really now? Quote where I "went on a rant about "Digi's employing of out of character tactics and instant tech was more feasible."

Or is this more of your "making up shit that never happened" tactic?

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Clearly Creshosk is a unbiased source with a credible opinion.

No, not really. Hey "Kmc can be dumb sometimes" can't we?

So from now on with these attacks I can say that none of your votes count cause you're biased?

Originally posted by Creshosk
An admission of bias is me not liking how WWH played out? What are you drawing most of your arguments from that PIS-fest? No wonder you're not getting any ... votes.

And that's why your opinion is not to be taken seriously

Originally posted by Papa Smurph
And that's why your opinion is not to be taken seriously Which isn't in the rules. Remember? Only the tourny director can declare that.

Cute new tactic. Get the people who vote against me's votes banned. Personlly I wouldn't mind seeing you banned from tournys in the future.

Hell I'd love to see a troll like you banned from the forums.

But its not my call. So "tough shit" eh Stacks?

Okay, let me end the debate here.

Digimark007 has the most votes and wins the debate overwhelmingly.

Joey Stacks advances because Digi dropped out do to questionable changes to the rules in the middle of the round.


Digi ftw.

Okay, Joey Stacks has some time off due to his behavior. I'm reopening this in case there's anything more which needs to be addressed.

9 day ban eh?

Yes.