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- Paladin with full skill-tree, top level, perfect AI and top-gear (Chosen by debator, but no enigma). Game mechanics disabled (Such as 95% block rate, incapability of jumping and handicap movement), but game-skills touched with lore and common sense included. Enigma is not permitted. His resistances is instead of percent converted into just plain resistance to all damage. Charge/Smite spam unallowed. Game attributes still applies, only taken up with common sense and not actual "numbers", whereas 1000 = Perfect and 15 = Very terrible.

- Ganon without the plot immortality (Weapons of light/triforce immortality), his ability to destroy the soul/spirit is also removed. He is limited to only summon a hand-few minions, and he has been forced to wear a plate helmet to cover his not too pretty face from public.

- Defeat by knock-out or incapability of continuance, death not necessary.

- Setting is a random forest.

Getting stabbed in the forehead doesn't knock Ganon out. Ganon rips the Paladins armor off and rips his head off.

And I assume you think that the Paladin will just let him? This is paladin /w lore and top AI, and not the crappy paladin that is lousyfied by game-mechanics..

Originally posted by Nozdormu
And I assume you think that the Paladin will just let him? This is paladin /w lore and top AI, and not the crappy paladin that is lousyfied by game-mechanics.. I'm not familiar with lore Pally.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I'm not familiar with lore Pally.

Which explains why you jump the gun so quickly in Ganon's favor..

Edit: This annoys me.. People determining a winner before having any facts..

Originally posted by Nozdormu
Which explains why you jump the gun so quickly in Ganon's favor..

Edit: This annoys me.. People determining a winner before having any facts.. I was not aware that there was a difference in the lore and games between the classes. Care to explain them?

Mighty warriors from the Westmarch, bound to the light with immense strength and faith.. A pack of elite soldiers who gain strength both at spirit and body from their fate and has even their armors enhanced with the powers of the light.. A paladin stand stronger and longer than any other warrior on the planet, with a shield blessed with the light and a hammer that can smash the thickest of armor open.. They also have a high versality of skills from both their talents as a warrior soldier and a priest..

Originally posted by Nozdormu
Mighty warriors from the Westmarch, bound to the light with immense strength and faith.. A pack of elite soldiers who gain strength both at spirit and body from their fate and has even their armors enhanced with the powers of the light.. A paladin stand stronger and longer than any other warrior on the planet, with a shield blessed with the light and a hammer that can smash the thickest of armor open.. They also have a high versality of skills from both their talents as a warrior soldier and a priest.. .....That told me like...nothing....

What about feats?

A powerful paladin about matches a barbarian in strength, overcomes a barbarian in endurance, outspeeds the amazon warriors and possess more power over the holy than the members of the Brotherhood of the monks..

As for feats, that hasnt been shown much of.. We only know about the paladin in general, since no great paladin has been named.. We know they were the elites of King Leoric, and that they can have the crappiest of weapon to do immense damage, as well as the crappiest armor to be extremely endurant thanks to their connection to the light..


When talking lore paladins, you should think game-paladin, only without the mechanics, greater strength, agility and skills in combat

Awww! No enigma?

Of course, that would have left Ganon pretty screwed

Give the paladin a Ravenfrost, a torch and a wild socketed complete Griswolds perhaps. That should do the trick. Or we could send "Darko", my brother's paladin on him. Fast finish

Originally posted by Nozdormu
A powerful paladin about matches a barbarian in strength, overcomes a barbarian in endurance, outspeeds the amazon warriors and possess more power over the holy than the members of the Brotherhood of the monks..

As for feats, that hasnt been shown much of.. We only know about the paladin in general, since no great paladin has been named.. We know they were the elites of King Leoric, and that they can have the crappiest of weapon to do immense damage, as well as the crappiest armor to be extremely endurant thanks to their connection to the light..


When talking lore paladins, you should think game-paladin, only without the mechanics, greater strength, agility and skills in combat 1. And how strong, endurant, fast, and powerful are they? Because in-game, NONE of them rival Ganon in those departments.

2. So this is basically gameplay Pally.

3. So gameplay, but without the obvious mechanics.

Yeah, Ganon wins.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. And how strong, endurant, fast, and powerful are they? Because in-game, NONE of them rival Ganon in those departments.
They're strong, endurant, fast, and powerful enough to take down the three Prime Evils solo if you're going to base your argument upon game mechanics only.

Might want to think about that.

Let me see some actual arguments instead of a dismissive "Ganon wins" on your behalf and repeating points made by others.

Originally posted by DarkC
They're strong, endurant, fast, and powerful enough to take down the three Prime Evils solo if you're going to base your argument upon game mechanics only.

Might want to think about that.

Let me see some actual arguments instead of a dismissive "Ganon wins" on your behalf and repeating points made by others. He mentioned no feats, and did not elaborate on what made those classes strong or fast. With the info he provided, Ganon wins and easily.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He mentioned no feats, and did not elaborate on what made those classes strong or fast. With the info he provided, Ganon wins and easily.
They're the most durable out of all the Diablo classes and can dish out quite a large amount of punishment in return.

Combat Skills
Offensive Auras
Defensive Auras

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He mentioned no feats, and did not elaborate on what made those classes strong or fast. With the info he provided, Ganon wins and easily.

You havent mentioned much feats either.. The Diablo Paladin is how he is in-game, only smarter and more effective.. All you are saying is that Ganondorf is stronger, without backing it up with anything.. You are also saying his minions are stronger, without backing it up..

Lets think like this then:

In Diablo a warrior downed Diablo's complete form. A barbarian is stronger than a Diablo warrior, while a Paladin is on par or perhaps even beyond the Barbarian. A Paladin also has the majority of skills that a warrior has and many skills on par to the barbarian. They also have holy abilities, which enhance all their abilities vastly and grants them a bunch of more.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. And how strong, endurant, fast, and powerful are they? Because in-game, NONE of them rival Ganon in those departments.

2. So this is basically gameplay Pally.

3. So gameplay, but without the obvious mechanics.

Yeah, Ganon wins.

1. Oh, I guess an amazon can run a kilometer in a few seconds, dodge the majority of attacks, both projectiles and melee strikes. If you say you have not seen anything that can rival Ganon, you have clearly played too little Diablo 2, or you are very BIASed. The barbarian can for example carry two swords the size of Ganon's one, they strike ten times faster than him, they run faster than him and the paladin is above the barbarian at all physical capabilities.

2. Yes, with perfect AI, gear and a touch of lore. The touch of lore is so that you wont base it entirely on the diablo character, but instead think outside the box. For a paladin can jump, they can dodge and they can parry. They are elite soldiers and should be treaten like that, and not some minor game-character.

3. lol. You are basing this on....? You havent brought up anything to back you up.. only "Ganon is better at this", "Ganon is better at that". Is that all you can think of as proof that the Paladin is chanceless?

Why do people have such a hard time accepting the fact that Diablo Heroes ARE powerful? Is it because they are not named? Is it because people does not think Diablo/Baal/Mephisto seems any powerful in the game? Is it because of the large number of game-mechanics? The gear dependancy?

I have never understood why people see so lowly on the Diablo Heroes who in fact are VERY powerful shockyes

Paladin wins

Ime not a paladin expert, since although i played them a lot in diablo, ive not played it in years

BUT

surely a Herald of Zak shield, BoTD single hander and some other high level items and youll have a guy with mostly indestructable armour and weapons, who can charge shield first (which is empowered with holy energy) knocking back ganon, doing a zeal and Ganon is meat, this is spite on Ganon, who will have no way of winning imo

the guys strength would mean nothing, one slash from a BOTD and he cannot heal, his endurance will reduce, he will have both his life essence and magical power drained with every slash and thats just the one runeword i can think up, theres so many items a paladin with EVERY skill would be incredible, all his auras, remember gameplay can be the only reason a paladin can only have one Aura, i mean wtf, an Aura is like something about you, a special force, you dont choose what one, if hes got all his auras, he would have every one of them active, Ganon would be smashed by every element just by coming close

Perhaps a ZOD in every piece of sockable armor That should prevent Ganon from ripping it all asunder

well exactley, the power of the increased defense from Holy shield, defiance etc should be enough alone to make the Paladin near indestuctable without wearing already indestructalble equipment

Ganon gets blasted by the elements into pieces as soon as he gets close

Too bad Smite/Charge spam was disabled. It would have been lovely to see Ganon humiliated

Just out of curiosity, what IS Breath of the Dying?

its an awsome runeword for 6 socket weapons which prevents heal, adds massive increases to speed, and has mana+life drain, its a wonderful piece of equipment imo and my paladin when i had one (damned expire grr) was a mean zealot with it

http://www.lewt.com/images/items/big/w-ebotdba365.jpg

BotD is a weapon worthy Gods!

Wonder how long it took to get those runes...

Originally posted by Nozdormu
You havent mentioned much feats either.. The Diablo Paladin is how he is in-game, only smarter and more effective.. All you are saying is that Ganondorf is stronger, without backing it up with anything.. You are also saying his minions are stronger, without backing it up..

Lets think like this then:

In Diablo a warrior downed Diablo's complete form. A barbarian is stronger than a Diablo warrior, while a Paladin is on par or perhaps even beyond the Barbarian. A Paladin also has the majority of skills that a warrior has and many skills on par to the barbarian. They also have holy abilities, which enhance all their abilities vastly and grants them a bunch of more.



1. Oh, I guess an amazon can run a kilometer in a few seconds, dodge the majority of attacks, both projectiles and melee strikes. If you say you have not seen anything that can rival Ganon, you have clearly played too little Diablo 2, or you are very BIASed. The barbarian can for example carry two swords the size of Ganon's one, they strike ten times faster than him, they run faster than him and the paladin is above the barbarian at all physical capabilities.

2. Yes, with perfect AI, gear and a touch of lore. The touch of lore is so that you wont base it entirely on the diablo character, but instead think outside the box. For a paladin can jump, they can dodge and they can parry. They are elite soldiers and should be treaten like that, and not some minor game-character.

3. lol. You are basing this on....? You havent brought up anything to back you up.. only "Ganon is better at this", "Ganon is better at that". Is that all you can think of as proof that the Paladin is chanceless? Ganondorf is physically more powerful than all of them because he can in a near death state jump from under the weight of a castle. Find me a Diablo Hero doing that. The Barb's weapon is not the size of Ganon's, it is about 6', Ganon's weapon is about the same height as him, he is at least 9' tall. And dual wielding two handed weapons makes the Barb's attacks weaker.

Ganondorf has dark magic that goes beyond the Paladin's holy auras and attacks from my experience playing. Ganon can turn entire villages into towns inhabited by souls of the original citizens, he can freeze over whole cities, can turn intangible, and in that form possess people(shit, why can't he just do that to the Pally?), has some mild dimensional powers, can teleport, among others that I don't feel like remembering.

Amazon can run a kilo in a few seconds? Can you PROVE that, as in it isn't just a distance estimate? Ganon is fast enough to near instantly jump 30-50 feet in the air to dodge light arrows, which>>>arrows in speed. Paladin is above Barb in all physical areas? You high? Endurance, sure, but not strength, and maybe not dexterity if the Barb is built right.

Ganon can jump 30-50 feet, dodge and parry light arrows and strikes from the Master Sword simultaneously, Ganon is not an elite soldier, he was a warlord, now he's a God.

I just brought up many things Ganon has done. Hell, Ganon could just freeze the Pally in crystal.

Ganon still falls, as soon as he gets near the Paladin he will get blasted by fire, lightning and ice, his own attacks through the thorns Aura will reflect back onto him, if this is a full powered pally, he would be giving ganon more damage back from his own attack, freeze him in crystal? the fire lighting and ice wouldnt blow the crystal?, whats the duration of the crystal? when has he used it?

Paladin will likely smash Ganon to bits before Ganon even knows whats hit him

And Nozdormu just said no smite/charge spam. He can still smite and charge, as long as he does not spam it

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Ganondorf has dark magic that goes beyond the Paladin's holy auras and attacks from my experience playing.
Funny that you should utter such an ridiculous comment when the Paladin's "holy" spells are designed to combat and counter such types of dark magic anyways.

Paladin can destroy said villages handily if it was in his desire to do so; not only does he have Holy Powers but he has a bit of augmented elemental magic in the style of Vizjerei.

Null point.

Shit, why can't he just do that to Link?

The Amazon is much faster and dextrous than a normal human, hailing from a savage jungle island, think Master Chief's level of speed. Hell, even trained necromancers (who hailed from the jungle of Kehjistan) are ridiculously fast, Zayl was able to easily combat a huge demon cat with just his dagger.

These are no ordinary humans.

The Paladin can be stronger than the Barbarian (who has limited use of magic, and has to rely on the use of his muscles ) because of his devotion to the Light, which grants him great Holy strength.

Don't talk shit if you don't know what you're talking about.

Don't be silly. Paladin don't need to rely on muscle mass to be strong, unlike a barbarian. No matter how skilled the barbarian is(like Gorst), he'll never be as agile as someone with less body mass and equivalent martial training.

It's like comparing a ninja to a WWF wrestler, the very idea of it...


Two words: Holy Cleanse.

Originally posted by DarkC
Funny that you should utter such an ridiculous comment when the Paladin's "holy" spells are designed to combat and counter such types of dark magic anyways.

Paladin can destroy said villages handily if it was in his desire to do so; not only does he have Holy Powers but he has a bit of augmented elemental magic in the style of Vizjerei.

Null point.

Shit, why can't he just do that to Link?

The Amazon is much faster and dextrous than a normal human, hailing from a savage jungle island, think Master Chief's level of speed. Hell, even trained necromancers (who hailed from the jungle of Kehjistan) are ridiculously fast, Zayl was able to easily combat a huge demon cat with just his dagger.

These are no ordinary humans.

The Paladin can be stronger than the Barbarian (who has limited use of magic, and has to rely on the use of his muscles ) because of his devotion to the Light, which grants him great Holy strength.

Don't talk shit if you don't know what you're talking about.

Don't be silly. Paladin don't need to rely on muscle mass to be strong, unlike a barbarian. No matter how skilled the barbarian is(like Gorst), he'll never be as agile as someone with less body mass and equivalent martial training.

It's like comparing a ninja to a WWF wrestler, the very idea of it...


Two words: Holy Cleanse. So is the Master Sword and Light Arrows. And they can't kill a Triforceless Ganon.

Which compared to converting the population to souls is nothing. A soul attack can go past physical defenses.

Because Link has the Master Sword and Triforce of Courage.

Okay. Prove she is Master Chief level in speed then. Or are you assuming? Of course they are not normal humans, they are superhuman in all or most areas, but Ganon goes beyond superhuman, Ganon is a God.

Holy strength, but not pure, bashing strength, a Paladin can harm an undead more easily of course, but not a monster or demon.

Never as agile? Sure, but I am talking about DEXTERITY, which in D2 terms is basically chance to hit. A well built Barb needs dexterity even moreso than strength.

That is not a good simile, ninjas are trained warriors and fighters, WWF wrestlers are just trained to put on a show, in this case, it is a larger trained warrior vs. a smaller one.

Can you refresh my memory on what exactly that is?

noobs "sigh" "Ganon is a God is not beyond superhuman, also what gives him the god title?

The fact that he has the power of a world creating God maybe?

Hes got the triforce of power that gives him various powers, he doesnt have the full power otherwise he would of used it, nothing hints to Ganon being able to control the full power of the triforce of power, otherwise he could create his own world.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hes got the triforce of power that gives him various powers, he doesnt have the full power otherwise he would of used it, nothing hints to Ganon being able to control the full power of the triforce of power, otherwise he could create his own world. Why would he want to create his own world? He has a perfectly fine one as it is.

prove he can first, thats what ime saying, prove he has the full power of the Goddess the Triforce represents, his whole story is based around tiny things that he could easily overcome completly if he as soon as gaining that triforce piece can create worlds.

Originally posted by Burning thought
prove he can first, thats what ime saying, prove he has the full power of the Goddess the Triforce represents, his whole story is based around tiny things that he could easily overcome completly if he as soon as gaining that triforce piece can create worlds. He wouldn't want to. It was never hinted he had more or less than Din's power. Din is not omnipotent btw, only when the Three are together are they. And honestly, PIS aside, Ganon in a straight up fight would laugh at Link, and Link always has outside help against Ganondorf.

so your guessing he has Dins and referring to "world creation" even though theres nothing to think so? other than he has a triforce piece connnected to it.. great

Originally posted by Burning thought
so your guessing he has Dins and referring to "world creation" even though theres nothing to think so? other than he has a triforce piece connnected to it.. great It is called the limitless power of the Goddess...wtf am I supposed to think it is? Also, I'm not one of the guys(like the wikitards) who think he is nigh omnipotent, as Din isn't either.

Can the paladin not simply use light abilities to harm Ganon?

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
Can the paladin not simply use light abilities to harm Ganon? Maybe, but can't kill him.

Are those abilities as powerful as the Master Sword, a blade of PURE light, which is not succeptible to corruption(like the Paladins are, as Mephisto proved), or the Light Arrows, once again pure light?

The Fist of Heavens is pure light.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
The Fist of Heavens is pure light. Is that a specific attack? I haven't played the game in years. And even Ganon's natural durability is huge, he can still survive the Master Sword through his head.

The Paladin can always kite Ganon using the ability. Yes, Fist of Heavens is a specific attack. A bolt of pure light strikes from the heavens and upon the target, also healing the paladin from the holy bolts that spread upon impact.

The paladin is basically an invulerable, speedy machine who can fight with pure light as well as the elements, Ganon has no chance or ability to win

Indestructable armor sure adds onto the whole "invulnerable" thing

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Paladin is above Barb in all physical areas? You high?

Are you?

Originally posted by Burning thought
The paladin is basically an invulerable, speedy machine who can fight with pure light as well as the elements, Ganon has no chance or ability to win Ganon is an invulnerable, speedy, multi-ton lifting, powerful, Godlike being who can fight with pure darkness, the elements, and reduce the Pally to a soul. Pally has no chance or ability to win. See how easy it was to say that?

problem is, none of Ganons attacks will be effective, furthermore, Ganon could be "stopped" but thanks to cleansing, the Paladin is near impossible to stop

Originally posted by Burning thought
problem is, none of Ganons attacks will be effective, furthermore, Ganon could be "stopped" but thanks to cleansing, the Paladin is near impossible to stop And we all know in this battle the Pally has limitless mana. Ganon, unlike the Pally, has limitless power reserves. Ganon physically outmatches the Pally in anyway(cept maybe running speed, but I'm not sure about that), Ganon can fly as well, and has more ranged attacks, if you are not close enough, the offensive auras have no effect, so Ganon can pelt attack after attack, and eventually the Pally's mana will fail, and his defensive auras will no longer work.

well he could have near limitless with pots, and it wouldnt take long to defeat Ganon, and what makes you so sure? The paladin is enchanted by the heavens, further enchanted by his equipment, and items and can hit with the zealot or vengeance power AT THE SAME TIME as having Auras on him to increase his sterngth, he may not have feats, but he could be damn strong and imo stronger than gaon will ever be.

Most Auras dont need mana do they to work, i thot only some of them did? and eithe way pally invulerable armour and resistences will always work anyway, also he has quite a few ranged attacks, he could be using Fist of the heavens, a bolt from heaven blasting into ganon with holy balls of light bursting forth WILL be painful for him even if he is invulerable.

Originally posted by Burning thought
well he could have near limitless with pots, and it wouldnt take long to defeat Ganon, and what makes you so sure? The paladin is enchanted by the heavens, further enchanted by his equipment, and items and can hit with the zealot or vengeance power AT THE SAME TIME as having Auras on him to increase his sterngth, he may not have feats, but he could be damn strong and imo stronger than gaon will ever be.

Most Auras dont need mana do they to work, i thot only some of them did? and eithe way pally invulerable armour and resistences will always work anyway, also he has quite a few ranged attacks, he could be using Fist of the heavens, a bolt from heaven blasting into ganon with holy balls of light bursting forth WILL be painful for him even if he is invulerable. 1. So he has pots now? Never mentioned in OP. Wouldn't take long to beat Ganon? Ganon has never been knocked out, not even from a stab to the heart, and he will be beaten quickly? Lol. Paladin enchanted by heavens? Ganon is personally empowered by a God. Enchanted by his Sword of the Sages as well(well, it's a damn good sword), and Ganon can fly away and toss Firebolt after Firebolt, freeze him solid, and in H2H disintegrates people with punches. He COULD be damn strong!? So you're basing this on what he COULD be!?

Yeah...they did last time I checked...why wouldn't they? Pally is not invulnerable actually, creating a Twilight Realm in the area will make all those resistances look like nothing and turn him into a bodiless soul. It will not hurt him that much, far as I am concerned it<Master Sword or Light Arrows, with his natural durability he tanked several.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. So he has pots now? Never mentioned in OP. Wouldn't take long to beat Ganon? Ganon has never been knocked out, not even from a stab to the heart, and he will be beaten quickly? Lol. Paladin enchanted by heavens? Ganon is personally empowered by a God. Enchanted by his Sword of the Sages as well(well, it's a damn good sword), and Ganon can fly away and toss Firebolt after Firebolt, freeze him solid, and in H2H disintegrates people with punches. He COULD be damn strong!? So you're basing this on what he COULD be!?

Yeah...they did last time I checked...why wouldn't they? Pally is not invulnerable actually, creating a Twilight Realm in the area will make all those resistances look like nothing and turn him into a bodiless soul. It will not hurt him that much, far as I am concerned it<Master Sword or Light Arrows, with his natural durability he tanked several.

seems youve not been reading the rules either, since it did mention NO immortality OR soul attacks....so Ganon gets mullered, hes got nothing to stop the indestructable plated and protected paladin from beating him to death with a couple of Holy blasts

Originally posted by Burning thought
seems youve not been reading the rules either, since it did mention NO immortality OR soul attacks....so Ganon gets mullered, hes got nothing to stop the indestructable plated and protected paladin from beating him to death with a couple of Holy blasts He doesn't have his immortality granted by the ToP. Are we taking away his natural durability as well? Are you so determined to find a way for the Pally(who I shall now refer to as Paul) to win? Nothing to stop him? Stall him and wait for his magic to lower. A couple? Riiiiight...because the superior Light Arrows and Master Sword could not kill him, but a few Holy blasts will?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He doesn't have his immortality granted by the ToP. Are we taking away his natural durability as well? Are you so determined to find a way for the Pally(who I shall now refer to as Paul) to win? Nothing to stop him? Stall him and wait for his magic to lower. A couple? Riiiiight...because the superior Light Arrows and Master Sword could not kill him, but a few Holy blasts will?

his natural durability does not impress me, since "paul" has so many powers all at the same time on Ganon he wouldnt bare it, and you think the light arrows and mater sword>>Strikes of holy light from heaven itself?

Originally posted by Burning thought
his natural durability does not impress me, since "paul" has so many powers all at the same time on Ganon he wouldnt bare it, and you think the light arrows and mater sword>>Strikes of holy light from heaven itself? His natural durability lets him stay alive after being stabbed in the head by the Master Sword. Yes, I think the Master Sword and Light Arrows which were made to combat Ganon>Strikes of Holy Light from Heaven, just because it is from Heaven doesn't make it more powerful.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yeah...they did last time I checked...why wouldn't they?

Talking about mana and the auras? All but the replenish aura is costless in mana. The only reason that specific aura cost mana is because it exchanges mana for health. He also has the aura that replenishes his mana rapidly and for free. If Ganon decides to fly around, that is his misstake. The Fist of Heavens never miss and is likely stronger than any ranged attack Ganon has. The Paladin with the holy shield and indestructable pre-Holy Shield which is probably a large shield covering his entire body can take as many fireballs as Ganon feel like shooting, while he spams Fists of Heaven.

Assuming the Paladin can only use one type of aura, I would say he should use Convition and spam Fists of Heaven. That way, Ganon's ranged attacks would not be near as dangerous as the Paladins.

^^
what they said
speaking of diablo, i just got my game workin again..i started a..........wait for it....bonemancer account (big suprise )..anyone wanna join me on US west?

I am EU, sorry

well i can switch..
wait. is it possible to have 2 online accounts for 1 cd key?

There are no limits I do not have Diablo installed currently though.

jr_shakefist

Of course, all this late Diablo talk has made me want to install it again.

yay hug

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
Talking about mana and the auras? All but the replenish aura is costless in mana. The only reason that specific aura cost mana is because it exchanges mana for health. He also has the aura that replenishes his mana rapidly and for free. If Ganon decides to fly around, that is his misstake. The Fist of Heavens never miss and is likely stronger than any ranged attack Ganon has. The Paladin with the holy shield and indestructable pre-Holy Shield which is probably a large shield covering his entire body can take as many fireballs as Ganon feel like shooting, while he spams Fists of Heaven.

Assuming the Paladin can only use one type of aura, I would say he should use Convition and spam Fists of Heaven. That way, Ganon's ranged attacks would not be near as dangerous as the Paladins. Really? It has been so long since I played it's hard to remember. Fist of Heaven's stronger than any ranged attack? I'll admit that when it destroys an enormous castle while the Pally is barely able to stand, freezes a whole city, or causes a mini earthquake. I cannot remember all of the Pally's auras...so you need to be more specific on what it does. Spams Fists of Heaven? I know for a fact that takes Mana, whereas Ganon's magic reserves are limitless.

Okay, but Ganon can still get in close with a speedblitz, and is undeniably able to hit harder with a punch than a Pally does with his weapon, Ganon disintegrates niggas.

paly uses the mana replenish aura (it replinishes it way too fast for most spells to take it away)..
a paly with the right armour can teleport way from ganon's speedblitz..id like to see him move faster than those crazy midget *****s from act 3
just a side note
i dont really like palys..they are prejeduce against necros..you always see them gang up on necros, but not sorcs or any other class..i ask myself - "if necros are so piss weak, why do they need 2 or more palys to kill me??
but if i have one on my team, then they are suddenly my best friend

Originally posted by MadMel
paly uses the mana replenish aura (it replinishes it way too fast for most spells to take it away)..
a paly with the right armour can teleport way from ganon's speedblitz..id like to see him move faster than those crazy midget *****s from act 3
just a side note
i dont really like palys..they are prejeduce against necros..you always see them gang up on necros, but not sorcs or any other class..i ask myself - "if necros are so piss weak, why do they need 2 or more palys to kill me??
but if i have one on my team, then they are suddenly my best friend 1. Only one aura at a time, and he will need ones to protect himself.

2. What, with Enigma? Not allowed. The Flayers? He is faster, especially when teleport is taken into account.

3. Nah, they do it on Barbs too, I was once ambushed by 4 Hammerdin Pallys. The bastards. Then when I'm on their teams, they always beg me for BO.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Only one aura at a time, and he will need ones to protect himself.

2. What, with Enigma? Not allowed. The Flayers? He is faster, especially when teleport is taken into account.

3. Nah, they do it on Barbs too, I was once ambushed by 4 Hammerdin Pallys. The bastards. Then when I'm on their teams, they always beg me for BO.

1. Ever heard of the Aura Flasher strategy? Swiftly, strategicaly switching between multiple auras, using their different strengths for varius situations. The Aura effect takes place instantly and we are talking about a PERFECT AI and not just a good AI here.

3. The paladins had to suck, or been crappy gear. It takes one hammerdin with enigma to bring one necromancer down and one hammerdin with enigma to bring a barbarian down

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Really? It has been so long since I played it's hard to remember. Fist of Heaven's stronger than any ranged attack? I'll admit that when it destroys an enormous castle while the Pally is barely able to stand, freezes a whole city, or causes a mini earthquake. I cannot remember all of the Pally's auras...so you need to be more specific on what it does. Spams Fists of Heaven? I know for a fact that takes Mana, whereas Ganon's magic reserves are limitless.

Okay, but Ganon can still get in close with a speedblitz, and is undeniably able to hit harder with a punch than a Pally does with his weapon, Ganon disintegrates niggas.

Ganon has disintegrated one person, who for all we know might not have been very endurant ermm Ganon is also vulnerable to the Light sword and the Light arrow. A mighty bolt of light from the holy heaven is likely to do him harm. Especially since it never missses. Assuming he has faster cast-rate, this is a hell of a spam comming up. With Vigor Aura maxed, charms and faster run/walk, the Paladin can kite Ganon forever. Especially with an indestructable shield and the immense blockrate and armor that a paladin has.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Only one aura at a time, and he will need ones to protect himself. not really, if a pally can spam a no miss uber weapon like FOH, theres ni need to protect himself...i doubt gano will be able to shrug off such a powerfull assult and just keep charging
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. What, with Enigma? Not allowed. The Flayers? He is faster, especially when teleport is taken into account. annoyig s.o.b.s though

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. Nah, they do it on Barbs too, I was once ambushed by 4 Hammerdin Pallys. The bastards. Then when I'm on their teams, they always beg me for BO.
like DH said, most hammerdins can take on a a barbs and have a good chance of winning..same with every other class..
unless that necro is me.....or john

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
1. Ever heard of the Aura Flasher strategy? Swiftly, strategicaly switching between multiple auras, using their different strengths for varius situations. The Aura effect takes place instantly and we are talking about a PERFECT AI and not just a good AI here.

3. The paladins had to suck, or been crappy gear. It takes one hammerdin with enigma to bring one necromancer down and one hammerdin with enigma to bring a barbarian down



Ganon has disintegrated one person, who for all we know might not have been very endurant ermm Ganon is also vulnerable to the Light sword and the Light arrow. A mighty bolt of light from the holy heaven is likely to do him harm. Especially since it never missses. Assuming he has faster cast-rate, this is a hell of a spam comming up. With Vigor Aura maxed, charms and faster run/walk, the Paladin can kite Ganon forever. Especially with an indestructable shield and the immense blockrate and armor that a paladin has. 1. Of course, but he cannot do all simultaneously.

2. I have never had my main Barb beaten by a Pally one-on-one.

3. One person, and Sages are among the most powerful beings in LoZ. Also, no Pally to my knowledge jas ever disintegrated anything. Ganon without the Triforce of Power tanked a Master Sword to the head, it could only seal him. Faster run? Not seen proof on that claim. Indestructable? Ever been hit by enough power to freeze a city, disintegrating punches, or enough power to topple a castle? Didn't think so, saying it is indestructible to anything would be a No-Limit Fallacy. Immense block rate? Gameplay, Ganon's blows would be so crushing he would stagger back and be left open in a real, cutscene-style fight.

your forgetting fist of heavens...an assult like that could bring ganon to his knees temporarily

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Of course, but he cannot do all simultaneously.

2. I have never had my main Barb beaten by a Pally one-on-one.

3. One person, and Sages are among the most powerful beings in LoZ. Also, no Pally to my knowledge jas ever disintegrated anything. Ganon without the Triforce of Power tanked a Master Sword to the head, it could only seal him. Faster run? Not seen proof on that claim. Indestructable? Ever been hit by enough power to freeze a city, disintegrating punches, or enough power to topple a castle? Didn't think so, saying it is indestructible to anything would be a No-Limit Fallacy. Immense block rate? Gameplay, Ganon's blows would be so crushing he would stagger back and be left open in a real, cutscene-style fight.

1. he will have every Aura he has on him, unless were talking these characters as just gameplay

2. "omg you must beee ze uburz!", no then youll just have to find a "good" pally then. Hammerdins deal tens of thousands of magic damage per second and their hammers end up spinning around the battlefield, their endurance is massive and enigma allows teleport, your stuffed as a barb half the time since hes a ranged dude who can teleprot wheras even if you do have enigma, your still a melee guy with teleport, and usually melee weapons dont hit 35k dmg per hammer blow and swarm the battlefield.

3. Power does not equel endurant, old wizards can prob die from a hammer blow where a knight would survive several, yet a wizard with the power in his finger tips to destroy continents is still more powerful. Paladins distinegrate all the time, i just put my frost aura up and the damage sometimes makes enemies shatter if not always on lower levels. enough "power" to freeze a city? its indestructable how is freezing a city going to help, sage disintegrating punches are not neccerily impressive, yu just assume they are. Then again saying Ganon can break it is not only assuming against a fact, but hes not even that powerful in comparison to many beings, if it says indestructable theres no much you can do.....it means it cannot be broken. No in a cutscene fight Tyrael would one hit ganon seriously however why would he stagger? Ganon will prob screech as his hand touches the holy surface of the indestructable shield.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. he will have every Aura he has on him, unless were talking these characters as just gameplay

2. "omg you must beee ze uburz!", no then youll just have to find a "good" pally then. Hammerdins deal tens of thousands of magic damage per second and their hammers end up spinning around the battlefield, their endurance is massive and enigma allows teleport, your stuffed as a barb half the time since hes a ranged dude who can teleprot wheras even if you do have enigma, your still a melee guy with teleport, and usually melee weapons dont hit 35k dmg per hammer blow and swarm the battlefield.

3. Power does not equel endurant, old wizards can prob die from a hammer blow where a knight would survive several, yet a wizard with the power in his finger tips to destroy continents is still more powerful. Paladins distinegrate all the time, i just put my frost aura up and the damage sometimes makes enemies shatter if not always on lower levels. enough "power" to freeze a city? its indestructable how is freezing a city going to help, sage disintegrating punches are not neccerily impressive, yu just assume they are. Then again saying Ganon can break it is not only assuming against a fact, but hes not even that powerful in comparison to many beings, if it says indestructable theres no much you can do.....it means it cannot be broken. No in a cutscene fight Tyrael would one hit ganon seriously however why would he stagger? Ganon will prob screech as his hand touches the holy surface of the indestructable shield. 1. Show me a Pally using all his auras at once.

3. So we assume that some of the most powerful beings in LoZ are weak and frail? Nah...shattering ice is not disintegration, it is funny you compared that to what Ganon did. Yes, enough power to freeze a city. He would freeze that dinky shield and one punch it. Or, just freeze the Pally, who has never been shown to take a freezing that could freeze a city. Sage disintegrating punchs not impressive? Show me a Pally, hell, show me ANYTHING in Diablo disintegrating something with a punch. He is powerful compared to any being to hit that shield. So it's indestructible? Could Odin from Marvel not break it? What about Superman Prime...no too low, I guess that Galactus could not break it either? In a cutscene fight, Odin would one shot Tyrael. What is your point? And that is a Red Herring. He would stagger because Ganon is several times stronger than him, has a powerful sword, and is faster(unless you prove the Pally is). Screech from touching the shield? Didn't screech when he was stabbed in the head by the superior Master Sword.

nothing in daiblo can disintegrate, because its not in any of the animations...just because the game cannot handle the awesome graphics that would be required for diablo to redlightninghose something to ashes doesnt mean he cant

- I can show you a paladin using three auras at once. In fact, I can show you a necromancer that uses two auras at once

- Since when does it mean that just because a sage is the most powerful beings there is, they have incredible endurance? Anveena of Warcraft has more power than any sage and she would be finished in a few slashes. Power does not equal endurance. Show me what the sages have survived before and I might reconsider my statement.

- The Paladin withstands direct smashes from Diablo, a physical powerhouse. Call me crazy, but I think Diablo's physical strength > Ganons.

told ya necros are uber
also, canon wise, all of the heroes took on diablo, meaning that all propably took some hits

Originally posted by Nozdormu
- Paladin with full skill-tree, top level, perfect AI and top-gear (Chosen by debator, but no enigma). Game mechanics disabled (Such as 95% block rate, incapability of jumping and handicap movement), but game-skills touched with lore and common sense included. Enigma is not permitted. His resistances is instead of percent converted into just plain resistance to all damage. Charge/Smite spam unallowed. Game attributes still applies, only taken up with common sense and not actual "numbers", whereas 1000 = Perfect and 15 = Very terrible.

- Ganon without the plot immortality (Weapons of light/triforce immortality), his ability to destroy the soul/spirit is also removed. He is limited to only summon a hand-few minions, and he has been forced to wear a plate helmet to cover his not too pretty face from public.

- Defeat by knock-out or incapability of continuance, death not necessary.

- Setting is a random forest.

I think you buffed the paladin too hard... with a full skill tree, the paladin curb stomps ganon, IMO

Fist of Heavens / Blessed Hammer spam, ftw? then just use Vigor aura to keep out of ganons range

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Show me a Pally using all his auras at once.

3. So we assume that some of the most powerful beings in LoZ are weak and frail? Nah...shattering ice is not disintegration, it is funny you compared that to what Ganon did. Yes, enough power to freeze a city. He would freeze that dinky shield and one punch it. Or, just freeze the Pally, who has never been shown to take a freezing that could freeze a city. Sage disintegrating punchs not impressive? Show me a Pally, hell, show me ANYTHING in Diablo disintegrating something with a punch. He is powerful compared to any being to hit that shield. So it's indestructible? Could Odin from Marvel not break it? What about Superman Prime...no too low, I guess that Galactus could not break it either? In a cutscene fight, Odin would one shot Tyrael. What is your point? And that is a Red Herring. He would stagger because Ganon is several times stronger than him, has a powerful sword, and is faster(unless you prove the Pally is). Screech from touching the shield? Didn't screech when he was stabbed in the head by the superior Master Sword.

1. I dont need to because an Aura is simply something around someone, if the paladin has all Auras, he can have them all active otherwise its not an Aura

2. erm yeh, their sages are they not, your assuming their tough just becaue they are apprently powerful doesnt mean their endurance is high. Not that funny, its as close to dsinitegration on a solid being as you can get. No he would not one punch it if its indestructable, no he would not freeze it since Paladin has super high resistences to all elemental powers. Your going into the old and foolish "Jedah" syndrome, assuming just because the AOE of the spell is a city, its far more powerful than Paladins shield, tell me, how many resistances did the city have? Ime not sure, if its indestructable then Odin certainly couldnt break it using strength alone. Odin wouldnt one shot Tyrael, Tyrael would likely warp Odin out of reality. Prove master sword is superior than a shield enchanted by heaven, I would wager Tyrael and arch angels as well as heaven itself is more pure than anything in Zelda.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
So is the Master Sword and Light Arrows. And they can't kill a Triforceless Ganon.
Even the Prime Evils like Baal and Diablo didn't last up to attacks based upon that. Are you under the opinion that Ganon is immune to everything that a Paladin can throw at him?

So if the Master Sword and Light Arrows can't kill Ganon, does that mean that a Paladin (from a different setting and different way of magic) can't kill or affect him? Of course it doesn't, what fallacy.

Paladin's souls are too pure to be affected by something like that.

Oh, and if the Paladin doesn't have them then he can be possessed.

Stop being so narrow-minded. Read my above argument again.

Is this your reasoning? Read mine again, it requires no proof, only common sense.
Despite what some people may think, demanding proof is nowhere near close to a real argument or point.

I said this once and I will say it again. If a trained necromancer can dance around a demonic cat and dodge all the blows it tosses then an Amazon can run a kilometer in a very short amount of time because they were raised to be ridiculously fast.

What are the Prime Evils then, cannon fodder?

Sorry, but in actual lore, the Light can grant the Paladin considerable amounts of strength regardless of what he's attacking. He's an instrument of the religion, which doesn't narrow down their idea of "evil" to just "demons' and "Undead".

Whenever he needs strength, he prays, he gets it.

Dfn: "Dexterity"
Read it. And I'm quite familiar with what Dexterity grants in Diablo II, thanks.

That's all nice and good, but I'm not talking about their actual skill level, just their relative size.

Even if they were both trained, a Paladin would still triumph over a Barbarian, both game wise and lore-wise. (If you don't believe me, go check the D2 Ladder, a lot of the top players in PvP are Paladins.) First of all thanks to their praying their strength is increased to the point where it matches the Barbarian's muscles, and also their faith and piousness and auras grant them more protection from physical attacks.

Lore wise it's essentially just a purge, or an exorcism.

In a "real life" situation (not in-game, I mean) think about what you're saying. Auras are there permanently, they're inherent to the nature and presence of a Paladin. That's why they're "auras" and not "blessings", like the Paladin class in World of Warcraft.

Are you saying that the Paladin should change his personality/aims/goals at the flick of a light switch and go from one aura to the other when his faith and zeal is supposed to be rock solid?

Originally posted by MadMel
nothing in daiblo can disintegrate, because its not in any of the animations...just because the game cannot handle the awesome graphics that would be required for diablo to redlightninghose something to ashes doesnt mean he cant Ah...the absence of proof isn't proof of absence argument...

So we assume they can, when they never have been shown they can?

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
- I can show you a paladin using three auras at once. In fact, I can show you a necromancer that uses two auras at once

- Since when does it mean that just because a sage is the most powerful beings there is, they have incredible endurance? Anveena of Warcraft has more power than any sage and she would be finished in a few slashes. Power does not equal endurance. Show me what the sages have survived before and I might reconsider my statement.

- The Paladin withstands direct smashes from Diablo, a physical powerhouse. Call me crazy, but I think Diablo's physical strength > Ganons. 1. So they have special armor on. I can find a vid of a Barb shooting fireballs and turning into a Werewolf.

2. Okay, I cannot show you their endurance, but a Sage's being is beyond human, and as such, they obviously have above human endurance. These Sages weren't just people who are powerful wizards, they were a different state of being.

3. Can't prove it. All he has is size.

Can you prove that Ganon is able to disintegrate people? You have no proof that the sage he disintegrated is endurant at all. Show us a 2nd person that Ganon has disintegrated, because you are basing that physical feat of his on one very loose base, since we know NOTHING about the Sage's endurance.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. I dont need to because an Aura is simply something around someone, if the paladin has all Auras, he can have them all active otherwise its not an Aura

2. erm yeh, their sages are they not, your assuming their tough just becaue they are apprently powerful doesnt mean their endurance is high. Not that funny, its as close to dsinitegration on a solid being as you can get. No he would not one punch it if its indestructable, no he would not freeze it since Paladin has super high resistences to all elemental powers. Your going into the old and foolish "Jedah" syndrome, assuming just because the AOE of the spell is a city, its far more powerful than Paladins shield, tell me, how many resistances did the city have? Ime not sure, if its indestructable then Odin certainly couldnt break it using strength alone. Odin wouldnt one shot Tyrael, Tyrael would likely warp Odin out of reality. Prove master sword is superior than a shield enchanted by heaven, I would wager Tyrael and arch angels as well as heaven itself is more pure than anything in Zelda. 1. Yet you can't show me it ever happening.

2. No, it isn't, shattering a frozen being<<<disintegrating with a punch, denying that is just funny. The shield has never shown to take any blows as powerful as those, stop committing the No-Limit fallacy. All elemental powers? I guess Pyron couldn't burn him either...once again, No-Limit fallacy, never been shown to tank ice like that. Jedah syndrome? HE could freeze over a whole city, yet can't freeze one being? Lol, my ass. How many resistances did the city have? Well, it's bigger, it was guarded by a Great Spirit, and had an entire race of people, and Ganon froze it all. Odin couldn't break the shield? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Odin can destroy a galaxy, but not some dinky shield? Bullshit, he would crush it with a blast, hell, Odin is too big, I should just have Hulk shatter it with a punch. No-Limit fallacies are funny. Tyrael, with his minor reality warping powers, would beat Odin, who flys FTL speeds from one side of the universe to the other, destroys galaxies and can manipulate matter on high levels? The Master Sword is a blade of pure light, made by the Goddesses themselves.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
Can you prove that Ganon is able to disintegrate people? You have no proof that the sage he disintegrated is endurant at all. Show us a 2nd person that Ganon has disintegrated, because you are basing that physical feat of his on one very loose base, since we know NOTHING about the Sage's endurance. Okay. I'll drop this, let's just say that the Sage has only human endurance. He, with a punch, disintegrated him(prolly by magically enhancing it). Now, show me a Pally, or anything in Diablo, doing it? Can't, can you?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. So they have special armor on. I can find a vid of a Barb shooting fireballs and turning into a Werewolf.

2. Okay, I cannot show you their endurance, but a Sage's being is beyond human, and as such, they obviously have above human endurance. These Sages weren't just people who are powerful wizards, they were a different state of being.

3. Can't prove it. All he has is size.

1. You can have multiple auras. Switching between three auras will allow you to have three open at the same time. When you switch aura, it fades, not disappears instantly. Switching between three auras quickly enough will allow three auras at the same time. Aura Flashing.

2. Anveena of Warcraft is more fragile than most humans, but is one of the most powerful entities in the warcraft universe. Your logic fails, claiming that just because a Sage is above a human, that means they are more endurant. Lousy logic and very loose base of proof.

Originally posted by DarkC
Even the Prime Evils like Baal and Diablo didn't last up to attacks based upon that. Are you under the opinion that Ganon is immune to everything that a Paladin can throw at him?

So if the Master Sword and Light Arrows can't kill Ganon, does that mean that a Paladin (from a different setting and different way of magic) can't kill or affect him? Of course it doesn't, what fallacy.

Paladin's souls are too pure to be affected by something like that.

Oh, and if the Paladin doesn't have them then he can be possessed.

Stop being so narrow-minded. Read my above argument again.

Is this your reasoning? Read mine again, it requires no proof, only common sense.
Despite what some people may think, demanding proof is nowhere near close to a real argument or point.

I said this once and I will say it again. If a trained necromancer can dance around a demonic cat and dodge all the blows it tosses then an Amazon can run a kilometer in a very short amount of time because they were raised to be ridiculously fast.

What are the Prime Evils then, cannon fodder?

Sorry, but in actual lore, the Light can grant the Paladin considerable amounts of strength regardless of what he's attacking. He's an instrument of the religion, which doesn't narrow down their idea of "evil" to just "demons' and "Undead".

Whenever he needs strength, he prays, he gets it.

Dfn: "Dexterity"
Read it. And I'm quite familiar with what Dexterity grants in Diablo II, thanks.

That's all nice and good, but I'm not talking about their actual skill level, just their relative size.

Even if they were both trained, a Paladin would still triumph over a Barbarian, both game wise and lore-wise. (If you don't believe me, go check the D2 Ladder, a lot of the top players in PvP are Paladins.) First of all thanks to their praying their strength is increased to the point where it matches the Barbarian's muscles, and also their faith and piousness and auras grant them more protection from physical attacks.

Lore wise it's essentially just a purge, or an exorcism.

In a "real life" situation (not in-game, I mean) think about what you're saying. Auras are there permanently, they're inherent to the nature and presence of a Paladin. That's why they're "auras" and not "blessings", like the Paladin class in World of Warcraft.

Are you saying that the Paladin should change his personality/aims/goals at the flick of a light switch and go from one aura to the other when his faith and zeal is supposed to be rock solid? 1. No, but he will be able to take many shots. People act like two or three attacks will kill Ganon, when evidence shows otherwise.

Well, yeah...as superior weapons and power made to kill Ganon, couldn't even kill a Ganon who didn't have the Triforce of Power.

2. It doesn't matter how "pure" your soul is, it still affects you. Hell, Many Paladins became corrupt if you remember, I am of course speaking of the ones influenced by Mephisto. Were their souls pure?

3. Has a Paladin ever resisted possession from a being as powerful in mind, body, and soul as Ganon?

4. So because a Necro could dodge the blows of a demon cat, she can run kilos? Dodging a cat is REACTION TIME, not run speed.

5. No, powerful demon lords, and I will use that common sense you like, common sense tells me that in terms of storyline, one Pally did not beat any of them alone.

6. Okay, more of the common sense, Barbs are played out to be physically dominating compared to the other classes, with great strength in the whole body, which also lets him make great mini-Hulk leaps. The Barb is the only class to be able to dual wield two Claymores. The Barb also has powerful lungs, allowing it to let out fiercesome battle crys, which even have magic effects. In terms of physically, the Barb is stronger.

7. The entire argument was that a good Barb in-game needs dexterity, so obviously I was referring to the stat in the game.

8. Actually, in-game, it depends on skill, a Pally retains certain advantages, but if you play it smart, you can and will win.

Lore I can't comment on.

9. ...And can you remind me of how that will protect him from being frozen?

10. So a Pally can have all auras on at all times. Has that even happened in lore?

Yeah, because saying all auras are constantly on and permanent is stupid, and his one aura which drains his mana, would be constantly draining his mana.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
1. You can have multiple auras. Switching between three auras will allow you to have three open at the same time. When you switch aura, it fades, not disappears instantly. Switching between three auras quickly enough will allow three auras at the same time. Aura Flashing.

2. Anveena of Warcraft is more fragile than most humans, but is one of the most powerful entities in the warcraft universe. Your logic fails, claiming that just because a Sage is above a human, that means they are more endurant. Lousy logic and very loose base of proof. 1. You mislead me.

2. I said that even if they were placed at mere human durability, they were still disintegrated. And I think it is lousy logic that just because a shield is invulnerable in one game, means that it will be to all areas of fiction, Odin can't bust it...lol, what a crock of shit.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Yet you can't show me it ever happening.

2. No, it isn't, shattering a frozen being<<<disintegrating with a punch, denying that is just funny. The shield has never shown to take any blows as powerful as those, stop committing the No-Limit fallacy. All elemental powers? I guess Pyron couldn't burn him either...once again, No-Limit fallacy, never been shown to tank ice like that. Jedah syndrome? HE could freeze over a whole city, yet can't freeze one being? Lol, my ass. How many resistances did the city have? Well, it's bigger, it was guarded by a Great Spirit, and had an entire race of people, and Ganon froze it all. Odin couldn't break the shield? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Odin can destroy a galaxy, but not some dinky shield? Bullshit, he would crush it with a blast, hell, Odin is too big, I should just have Hulk shatter it with a punch. No-Limit fallacies are funny. Tyrael, with his minor reality warping powers, would beat Odin, who flys FTL speeds from one side of the universe to the other, destroys galaxies and can manipulate matter on high levels? The Master Sword is a blade of pure light, made by the Goddesses themselves.

1. "sigh" go and look up what an Aura is first, then come back to me

2. It doesnt need to if its indestructable, theres not a "no limit fallacy" going on, the shield is indestructable fact, my fact>>your assumptions on people trying to break it. I didnt say Paladin was immune did I to all elemental powers?. Can you show me this city guarded by a being who can reflect freezing powers, and you think the fact the city was bigger meaning the spell would be more powerful on a single target? not played World of warcraft much then? AOE spells do the same damage to a single target it does to several, its called AOE, its not a basing of power, just area, since theres only one paladin, the size of the city is moot. Well yeh the last time i looked Galaxies are not indestructable, galaxies are simply celestial bodies, the Sun a giant lump of Hydragon elements, planets are lumps of rock.....its not that impressive, once again, your trying to take the area range of the spell and make it into power, its not true, its Jedah syndrome. Minor reality warping, he has Angelis council powers, they can remove things from excistence, Odin could be among them, either way, Odin would never "defeat" Tyrael, its unlikey he could even hit him



Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. It doesn't matter how "pure" your soul is, it still affects you. Hell, Many Paladins became corrupt if you remember, I am of course speaking of the ones influenced by Mephisto. Were their souls pure?



lol comparing any corruption from Zelda to Mephisto lawlz ftw

and to answer :

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Okay. I'll drop this, let's just say that the Sage has only human endurance. He, with a punch, disintegrated him(prolly by magically enhancing it). Now, show me a Pally, or anything in Diablo, doing it? Can't, can you?

How about Inarius who can bust Sanctuary (the planet) 1000 times over with ease?

Who cares about Odin? Ganon does not even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Odin in any discussion other than how hard Odin would destroy him

Now drop the whole Odin talk. Ganon will not be punching trough armor nor shield, because the shield is beyond anything Ganon has broke in endurance. This of several reasons. The first being that he block the punch of Satan with it. The second is that it is enforced with pure light and we all know that Ganon has a touch of vulnerability towards light which not only makes his attack less effective than it already should be, but also grants the shield even a chance to be dangers, considering Smite.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No, but he will be able to take many shots. People act like two or three attacks will kill Ganon, when evidence shows otherwise.
I don't recall saying that Ganon would be defeated that easily, but there's absolutely no denying that he will have his hands more than full trying to protect himself from the full extent of the Paladin's power.

Wrong. You're thinking of the Council members such as Bartuc, who were Vizjerei magus and commanders, and none of them as I recall were Paladins.

No, but a simple battle hardened mercenary resisted corruption from Diablo and mentally faced him down himself.

If that can happen, then yes, a Paladin can resist the pull of Ganon's power.

Wrong again, they're based on both physical and mental speed. I'm not sure where you're pulling the "solely reaction time" off of. Reaction time and mental reflexes are completely worthless if the body cannot follow through.

Amazons are built and trained to have much more physical control over their own body than a necromancer ever will.

In terms of storyline, one person (the chosen protagonist from the first Diablo) took Diablo on and won. That person became the Wanderer. Are you saying that a Paladin cannot?

Again, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but you seem terribly misinformed in some areas.

Again , all that is just noise.

You're correct in the fact that the Barbarian is lore-wise and game-wise meant to be the most physically strongest of the characters, but you're missing out on one detail.

They're supposed to be strong without the aid of magic. And if the Paladin did not have the use of his magic, and was reduced to a normal man in armor, then yes the Barbarian would obvious triumph in raw muscular strength.

No, his war shouts do not have magical effects at all. In game mechanics, their effects are simply there to simulate the mental and physical effect of his battlecries, much the same way that the warrior class in WoW does. (Intimidating shout - fears enemies away, battle shout - increased attack power, Piercing Howl - decreased enemy movement speed, etc)

Gee, I dunno, it dispels the freeze?

No, as far as I can tell there's been no Paladins in the novels period.

You're defying the general idea of an aura just by saying that one aura cannot take place if another aura is there. And besides, many of the "auras" listed as Paladin skills (such as Holy Freeze) are less "auras" and more "spells".

Dfn: "Aura"

Originally posted by DarkC
I don't recall saying that Ganon would be defeated that easily, but there's absolutely no denying that he will have his hands more than full trying to protect himself from the full extent of the Paladin's power.

Wrong. You're thinking of the Council members such as Bartuc, who were Vizjerei magus and commanders, and none of them as I recall were Paladins.

No, but a simple battle hardened mercenary resisted corruption from Diablo and mentally faced him down himself.

If that can happen, then yes, a Paladin can resist the pull of Ganon's power.

Wrong again, they're based on both physical and mental speed. I'm not sure where you're pulling the "solely reaction time" off of. Reaction time and mental reflexes are completely worthless if the body cannot follow through.

Amazons are built and trained to have much more physical control over their own body than a necromancer ever will.

In terms of storyline, one person (the chosen protagonist from the first Diablo) took Diablo on and won. That person became the Wanderer. Are you saying that a Paladin cannot?

Again, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but you seem terribly misinformed in some areas.

Again , all that is just noise.

You're correct in the fact that the Barbarian is lore-wise and game-wise meant to be the most physically strongest of the characters, but you're missing out on one detail.

They're supposed to be strong without the aid of magic. And if the Paladin did not have the use of his magic, and was reduced to a normal man in armor, then yes the Barbarian would obvious triumph in raw muscular strength.

No, his war shouts do not have magical effects at all. In game mechanics, their effects are simply there to simulate the mental and physical effect of his battlecries, much the same way that the warrior class in WoW does. (Intimidating shout - fears enemies away, battle shout - increased attack power, Piercing Howl - decreased enemy movement speed, etc)

Gee, I dunno, it dispels the freeze?

No, as far as I can tell there's been no Paladins in the novels period.

You're defying the general idea of an aura just by saying that one aura cannot take place if another aura is there. And besides, many of the "auras" listed as Paladin skills (such as Holy Freeze) are less "auras" and more "spells".

Dfn: "Aura" 1. Oh, he won't be able to beat the Pally as easily as he SHOULD Link, don't get me wrong, but according to Burning Thought, Ganon is tooled. Then again, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by anything he says...

2. Really? I misread the game info then...meh.

Has a Pally ever resisted a soul attack like that? You cannot assume a pure heart will help him, and it affected Link, who is both a pure heart and tool of the Gods, although the Triforce of Courage kept his soul safe.

3. Wait, are you talking about the Wanderer in the first game?

I can't remember much from the first game, but didn't he solo Diablo?

What makes you think one Pally>him?

4. Because one can have the reaction time to dodge something, but not be able to run equally as fast. Superman for example has incredible reaction time, but is not as fast moving(tops at lightspeed running, beyond when flying), whereas Silver Surfer is the opposite, can fly at billions or trillions of times lightspeed, but cannot react anywhere near as fast. There IS a difference between being able to react and run somewhere quickly, can a sprinter dodge punches from a UFC fighter as quickly as another UFC fighter? The answer is no.

True, but you cannot prove she can run kilos in seconds.

5. The Wanderer is fairly unknown in terms of abilities of what he can do. He could very well be more powerful than a single Pally(and honestly, probably is).

6. Of course, the Barb is physically stronger without magic, a Pally needs it to be strong, and really, I have never met a Pally do more physical damage than a good Barb when the two were around the same level.

Details, point is they do.

7. ...And exorcism can dispel ice? Or when you said that, did you mean it dispells enchantments? This is nothing fancy, just ice, ice that had to be melted with blue fire, which can't be found on our planet.

8. That's the IRL definition, which doesn't mean it is the same in fiction.

5. The Wanderer is the devil He IS more powerful than the paladin

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
5. The Wanderer is the devil He IS more powerful than the paladin Okay, Pre-Possession Wanderer then. Actually, Possessed Wanderer in one of the cutscenes was barely able to lift his sword, lol.

The wanderer that fought Tyrael, burnt down the Tavern and summoned demons from the very Hell that he dominate you mean? Yeah, he is a weakling

lawlz Diablo would solo Zeldaverse and the wanderer would likely destroy most of it as well

Originally posted by Burning thought
lawlz Diablo would solo Zeldaverse and the wanderer would likely destroy most of it as well Not according to feats, according to speculation he would though.

I'm just talking about in-game, I know virtually nothing about lore though.

The guy blocked Tyrael's sword with his hands

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
The guy blocked Tyrael's sword with his hands Can you tell me what T's sword can do?

I am not so well-facted with that stuff. I think it is called "Armageddon" and is one of the most powerful weapons there is. I was going to say Azurewrath, but that was not Tyrael's

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Oh, he won't be able to beat the Pally as easily as he SHOULD Link, don't get me wrong, but according to Burning Thought, Ganon is tooled. Then again, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by anything he says...
As he "should" Link, yet Link triumphs repeatedly.

Paladin > Link.

A pure heart might not helped him, but like I said his soul is pure and that's the only real resistance to an attack that aims at the soul and the traits contained in that soul.

Because he was just a mortal, even if he was a great warrior; the Paladin overcomes a warrior just from the powers granted through his faith to the Light.

Noise again. You're comparing two professions of differing priorities and aims.

UFC fighters are trained for speedy reflexes, sprinters are trained for speedy movement. Amazon is trained and raised to be both, not one or the other.

Anyways, here's a point; if someone has the reflexes to dodge bullets with ease will they be able to outmatch a sprinter? Yes they can, because they have much more control over their body and will be able to put more force and faster movement speed into their legs.

Not sure where I said that; I said she moves at about Master Chief's speed, who ran 500 meters in 12 seconds.

Before you were telling me repeatedly that the barbarian outmatches a Paladin in overall strength.

Comparing that to now, where you're saying that they're equal in overall strength, I'm not even sure why you're bringing it up anymore, or what you're trying to argue about here.

Not Exorcism. Cleanse.

And anyways, a Paladin can have divine intervention save him and purge him of all impurities; remember, it's Heaven who's cleansing him here.

Nonsense. If they hadn't meant "aura" then they wouldn't have called it "aura", period.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
I am not so well-facted with that stuff. I think it is called "Armageddon" and is one of the most powerful weapons there is. I was going to say Azurewrath, but that was not Tyrael's
I thought Azurewrath was Tyrael's property...didn't he lead an assault on the Hellforge (which turned out badly) using it?

Azurewrath was the sword Tyrael forged for Izual, was it not?

Originally posted by DarkC
As he "should" Link, yet Link triumphs repeatedly.

Paladin > Link.

A pure heart might not helped him, but like I said his soul is pure and that's the only real resistance to an attack that aims at the soul and the traits contained in that soul.

Because he was just a mortal, even if he was a great warrior; the Paladin overcomes a warrior just from the powers granted through his faith to the Light.

Noise again. You're comparing two professions of differing priorities and aims.

UFC fighters are trained for speedy reflexes, sprinters are trained for speedy movement. Amazon is trained and raised to be both, not one or the other.

Anyways, here's a point; if someone has the reflexes to dodge bullets with ease will they be able to outmatch a sprinter? Yes they can, because they have much more control over their body and will be able to put more force and faster movement speed into their legs.

Not sure where I said that; I said she moves at about Master Chief's speed, who ran 500 meters in 12 seconds.

Before you were telling me repeatedly that the barbarian outmatches a Paladin in overall strength.

Comparing that to now, where you're saying that they're equal in overall strength, I'm not even sure why you're bringing it up anymore, or what you're trying to argue about here.

Not Exorcism. Cleanse.

And anyways, a Paladin can have divine intervention save him and purge him of all impurities; remember, it's Heaven who's cleansing him here.

Nonsense. If they hadn't meant "aura" then they wouldn't have called it "aura", period. 1. Due to PIS. Link should not be able to get one win off Ganon.

Of course a Pally>Link.

2. A pure heart resists soul powers? No...soul strength resists soul powers.

3. And a Pally isn't mortal? So a Pally>all mortals? Hell, Diablo is a mortal technically, as he can die.

4. No, you just don't get that being able to react quickly does not mean you are necessarily that fast. Juggernaut has pretty quick reaction-time, but in terms of running is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

Yeah, both, but you can have one and not the other. That was my only point.

Depends on how they dodged it. And btw, if they dodged a bullet, in terms of reaction-time they are beyond soundspeed, so they are clearly beyond human physically.

Yeah...you did say she can run a kilo in seconds...and when has one ran one? Seriously?

5. That's not what I said. Barbs>Pally in overall strength, a Pally can reach near Barb strength, but not equal.

6. Remind me, is that an aura?

7. And your definitions only stated qualities about a thing or person, abstractual, whereas the Pally auras affect the physical world.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Due to PIS. Link should not be able to get one win off Ganon.

Of course a Pally>Link.

2. A pure heart resists soul powers? No...soul strength resists soul powers.

3. And a Pally isn't mortal? So a Pally>all mortals? Hell, Diablo is a mortal technically, as he can die.

4. No, you just don't get that being able to react quickly does not mean you are necessarily that fast. Juggernaut has pretty quick reaction-time, but in terms of running is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

Yeah, both, but you can have one and not the other. That was my only point.

Depends on how they dodged it. And btw, if they dodged a bullet, in terms of reaction-time they are beyond soundspeed, so they are clearly beyond human physically.

Yeah...you did say she can run a kilo in seconds...and when has one ran one? Seriously?

5. That's not what I said. Barbs>Pally in overall strength, a Pally can reach near Barb strength, but not equal.

6. Remind me, is that an aura?

7. And your definitions only stated qualities about a thing or person, abstractual, whereas the Pally auras affect the physical world.
1. i agree with that
2. he said a pure soul, not heart
3. he might as well not be and no, only diablo's physical form dies, and regenerates in hell..
4. he was making a comparison
5. like darkC said, why does it matter ?
6. go look it up
7. which doesnt make a difference in this fight..if pally can have 3 auras at once (proven), he should be able to beat ganon..

Originally posted by MadMel
1. i agree with that
2. he said a pure soul, not heart
3. he might as well not be and no, only diablo's physical form dies, and regenerates in hell..
4. he was making a comparison
5. like darkC said, why does it matter ?
6. go look it up
7. which doesnt make a difference in this fight..if pally can have 3 auras at once (proven), he should be able to beat ganon.. 1. You better waterboy, if you don't want a round in the arm scruncher.

2. Force of habit, I debate Kingdom Hearts on other forums alot.

3. Well he is. And I thot the Primes died for good in Diablo 2?

4. So was I.

5. ...I'm not really sure...

6. Nah.

7. Pally has auras over Ganon. Ganon has power, strength, speed, base durability, skill(damn right), experience, brutality, and intelligence over the Pally.

The primes never die for good, their like conceptual forces, their "evil" conceptual force, and they come back in hell as madmel said

and Pally has auras over ganon which add to all those powers you say ganon has, its very unlkely ganon would outdo the pally thats for sure

Originally posted by Burning thought
The primes never die for good, their like conceptual forces, their "evil" conceptual force, and they come back in hell as madmel said

and Pally has auras over ganon which add to all those powers you say ganon has, its very unlkely ganon would outdo the pally thats for sure 1. Hmmm...I could very well be wrong, haven't played the games in ages and know virtually nothing about the lore.

2. Prove it lets him rival his strength or speed, or his magic skill, swordskill, and power. Won't give him more experience or brutality either. Defense I will give you.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
7. Pally has auras over Ganon. Ganon has power, strength, speed, base durability, skill(damn right), experience, brutality, and intelligence over the Pally.
auras increase pally's stats
power - sure, but pallys taken on diablo, whos power and strength can match ganons..pure strength or magic wont do it for ganon..
speed - again, if the pally spams FOH then ganon will be slowed down, if not brought to his knees
base durability - so did diablo, your point?
skill - a perfect ai's skill vs ganon's skill??
experience - so did diablo
brutatlity - didnt stop the pally beating daiblo
intelligence - suposedly the prime evils are omnipotent, yet they were defeated..

Originally posted by MadMel
auras increase pally's stats
power - sure, but pallys taken on diablo, whos power and strength can match ganons..pure strength or magic wont do it for ganon..
speed - again, if the pally spams FOH then ganon will be slowed down, if not brought to his knees
base durability - so did diablo, your point?
skill - a perfect ai's skill vs ganon's skill??
experience - so did diablo
brutatlity - didnt stop the pally beating daiblo
intelligence - suposedly the prime evils are omnipotent, yet they were defeated.. 1. Power? Maybe, but never really seen a feat to prove it. Physical strength? Never proven, much of Diablo's power people say he has is for the simple fact that he's the devil.

2. Light Arrows and Master Sword, weapons designed to kill ganon, could not bring him to his knees. He was not killed when stabbed in the head. Yet FOH will bring him down to his knees in one shot? Hell, I could just say Ganon grabs the Pally, and pushes him through a wall.

3. My point is it's an advantage. And you are assuming in canon a Pally soloed Diablo, we don't know what happened in canon, so we cannot assume the Pally can.

4. Ummm...yeah, a thousands year old master of the arcane and master swordsman>Perfect AI, whatever that is supposed to be.

5. And we do not know how diablo was defeated. For all we know the Necro unzipped his pants and crushed Diablo with the weight of his nuts.

6. The Pally in canon didn't beat Diablo for all we know, so that is a very nonsensical statement.

7. Omnipotent? I believe you mean Omniscient, and they clearly were not.

Tge prime evils were not neccerily omnipotent, omnicient is likely,
however the Prime evils the heroes fought wy were extremely weak versions of them after they had lost almost all their power, the full powered primes would wipe out Sanctuary with ease

also most of diablos power is spoken in lore, books, the sin war books that ive read all of show he is damned powerful, striking fear even into the heart of inarius, who can wipe out words 1000 times over with ease, as well as the fact the primehs fight against angelis council who can wipe beings from excistence, and even freeze whole words and reset time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Tge prime evils were not neccerily omnipotent, omnicient is likely,
however the Prime evils the heroes fought wy were extremely weak versions of them after they had lost almost all their power, the full powered primes would wipe out Sanctuary with ease

also most of diablos power is spoken in lore, books, the sin war books that ive read all of show he is damned powerful, striking fear even into the heart of inarius, who can wipe out words 1000 times over with ease, as well as the fact the primehs fight against angelis council who can wipe beings from excistence, and even freeze whole words and reset time. The D2 warriors did not fight the FP Primes.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
The D2 warriors did not fight the FP Primes.

In matter of fact, they did. One of them at least. Who Blizzard has placed in the story as the opposition of the primes is unknown. What we do know is that it is a muscular male and one of the original five. Which means that the D2 protagonist is either a barbarian, warrior or a paladin story-wise.

In D2?

Burning Thought just said they were not at FP in D2...

I missunderstood it all.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
I missunderstood it all. Lulz.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. A pure heart resists soul powers? No...soul strength resists soul powers.
Which is exactly what I said. Thanks for keeping up.

That's not what I said. Again, thanks for keeping up.
Because a simple but powerful mortal (Wanderer) could take on Diablo by himself, yes, a Paladin (who is mortal, by the way) could as well.

No, Diablo isn't just another mortal; he only truly "dies" when his soul is destroyed (Soulstone), whereas a mortal simply dies after their physical shell is destroyed.

In this case, yes it is.

And your point doesn't matter in this case, the Amazon is both.


You're avoiding the point, like I said if they have those kind of reflexes then they have much more awareness of how they pump their legs to move and how fast they can pump their legs to move.

Even if a normal human attempted to sprint faster and move their legs much faster than usual they would fall over very quickly because their reflexes cannot handle the increased motor function in the legs.

If you had actually taken some time to read my posts properly, I believe I said that she possesses the ability to run a kilometer in a very short amount of time. Which, by the way, does not equal to a few "seconds".

It would take her probably half a minute to run a kilometer. And don't ask me, because Amazons have not yet been featured in any media or lore.

Wrong, Paladins have a slight edge on Barbarians simply because they can enhance their strength with magic and do it repeatedly, whereas Barbarians cannot. You seem to underestimate this type of advantage severely.

And besides, Paladin are no slight men themselves.

It was listed in the Paladin "Defensive Auras" skill tree, so yes that would make it an aura game wise.

Your point is moot. It doesn't matter, because they (Blizzard) took the fundamental meaning of that definition, which is just a pervasive and dominant aspect about a person that affects other people.

If you can actually find me a better word to use for those manner of skills instead of "aura", then go ahead.

Originally posted by MadMel
7. which doesnt make a difference in this fight..if pally can have 3 auras at once (proven), he should be able to beat ganon..

Also.. Say that they use DK's said Aura Flashing, there are items that give him even more auras.. I think it's possible for him that with a 3-aura-flashing can have up to 6, or 7 auras with the right gear. With the right gear, he can also bring a summon that has an aura, giving him another one. This summon would be any one of the druid's spirits.

= Strength, Health, Returned Damage or Increased Damage.


By the way.. Arent Ganon undead?

Don't feel like debating right now, but Ganon is not undead. He's an immortal being of divine power.

The thypical response of a devoted fan

Instead of a "No", they elaborate by bringing something impressive up about him

That's what he is.

He is immortal, and his power is from a divine source.

Psh! Fans! Psh!

Pffft...fangurl...