Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Discuss..
My money's on Solidus....

Um, I think Dante is too fast.
Solidus can block bullets with his arms. Can't Dante like catch them with his teeth or something? I think i heard that somewhere but who knows.
Even ignoring that, Dante's regen is too much.

You're slightly wrong with the speed part.
278i2vxC7hI
4:11

If Dante even touches one of Solidus' bullets, he can say bye to that area that was touched. As Solidus' bullets are customized to be explosive, that pack more power than Grenades. So Dante catching them in his mouth may be suicide. Solidus could also use those Tentacles as distractions, I guess. This is not gonna be easy for Dante.

Come on...Dante?

Ok, I didn't see any explosive bullets in that waste of 7 minutes, sorry, and the only one who was actually shooting in that clip was the actual Solid Snake and those bullets were not exactly explosive.

Look, there's no effing way Dante would lose to him, he speedblitzes this guy.

Dante 10\10.

Originally posted by Raijin
Ok, I didn't see any explosive bullets in that waste of 7 minutes, sorry, and the only one who was actually shooting in that clip was the actual Solid Snake and those bullets were not exactly explosive.

Look, there's no effing way Dante would lose to him, he speedblitzes this guy.

Well, for one, it was an awesome scene. Solidus' intro is more badass than Dante's whole career.

Second, he probably meant this vid
cC80obwCW6A

Solidus' gun hs armor-piercing rounds.

Actually, it's not explosive bullets. If you read the script in Metal Gear Solid 2 Substance it says Solidus shoots the computers that control the Ray's on their bodies, and they're what explodes. It's pretty much clear that they're not explosive when he shoots Olga in the head, and her head doesn't explode... :/

Where's this script? Is it official?

Originally posted by kamikz
Actually, it's not explosive bullets. If you read the script in Metal Gear Solid 2 Substance it says Solidus shoots the computers that control the Ray's on their bodies, and they're what explodes.

*Ahem*
WRONG!



http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/P90

As a Metal Gear Fanatic myself, it disappoints me to see another fan of the series to lack the knowledge of anything from the series. *Sigh*

Originally posted by kamikz
It's pretty much clear that they're not explosive when he shoots Olga in the head, and her head doesn't explode... :/

Not really, because the bullet pretty much went through her skull. And it most likely didn't hit a surface hard enough for it's impact to go off. And besides I doubt Kojima would want a depiction of Olga having her head explode via Headshot.

Um... Aren't wikipedia articles written by fans? That means it is not official, you can't use it as a source. For all I know, you wrote that article.

Do you have the script of Metal Gear Solid 2? If you do, read it. I'd take that over any wikipedia article.

The only way I could see me being wrong would be if Solidus hit the computers on the Ray's WITH exploding bullets, then again, it should've said so, and it doesn't say it was used to pierce their armor.



And what the hell is with you jumping on me saying I know nothing of the series? Even if I'm wrong here, it's one damn thing. Jesus...


Btw, where the hell do Solidus' bullets "explode when they hit arsenal gear"? Here's the scene, they do not...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=k6tPHc4JuV4

Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
Where's this script? Is it official?


It's in the "Documentaries of Metal Gear Solid 2", the second disc of Metal Gear Solid 2 Substance. There is the script for the game, I doubt they'd put an unofficial version in there really...
However, it's been a while since I read it, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. I know 100% it's there, however I don't know if there are details I've missed. If someone wants to check it out that's fine, I might do it if I feel like it, but I don't at the moment. (It's at the scene where Ocelot betrays Solidus and shoots Fortune, somewhere around there)




Sorry for double post, was over the 15 minute edit time...



Edit: Ok, I checked it out anyway, and I was right. Here it is....

"Harnessing the accelerator, he deftly evades the Ray's lashing tails and other attacks while sniping out their AI control systems with the P90."

Nowhere does it mention an exploding one, and nothing points at it. The official script from Hideo Kojima has spoken, don't try to refute it with opinions and other fan made articles please. Unless you can prove it...

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG



http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/P90

As a Metal Gear Fanatic myself, it disappoints me to see another fan of the series to lack the knowledge of anything from the series. *Sigh*



OMG! crylaugh

You fool. You fool of fools... how are you going to come into a thread, talk shit, then use a wikipedia article to prove your point? Everyone knows wiki's are not reliable sources, tend to be biased, and as such aren't valid sources in debates!

omfg... hahaha..

And how ya doing Kamikz? Long time no see.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
OMG! crylaugh

You fool. You fool of fools... how are you going to come into a thread, talk shit, then use a wikipedia article to prove your point? Everyone knows wiki's are not reliable sources, tend to be biased, and as such aren't valid sources in debates!

omfg... hahaha..

And how ya doing Kamikz? Long time no see.


Hey, nice to see ya! I'm doing fine at the moment, stopped coming here for about a year because I lost interest (and found alot of others at the same time). But today I decided to check in and write some!

You?

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
You fool. You fool of fools... how are you going to come into a thread, talk shit,

*Facepalm*
*Reported for unneeded comment*

*Looks at kamikz's video*

Hmm, I could of sworn I saw mini explosions the last time I played the game. Oh well, that statement has been fully blown out. Anyways, I WISH I made that site, it was made by a mod from the Metal Gear Solid unofficial forums, which is known for some members who use unbiased information.. Anyways, I didn't say you knew NOTHING of anything from MGS, just the whole Solidus Bullets.

*Scratches Head*

Any who, who shall win?

hahaha. Unneeded comment? That's not against the rules, unless it's either A) Off-topic, which it wasn't because my post was still in regard to the topic at hand, namely Snake's bullets and the sources behind them, or B) flaming, which I wasn't doing because I wasn't attacking you so much as I was attacking your argument and your thought process in this instance, and it's still foolish to use a wikipedia site, no matter what the people who wrote it are "known for"... especially after stating superiority of knowledge over someone.

By your logic, I can report you for this:



As it has no bearing on the actual topic. Rather, it's a jab at someone.


Meh, same here pretty much. I don't really frequent the video game vs. since so many people left and the fights got boring. I check in to get in a scrap every once in awhile though

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
*Facepalm*
*Reported for unneeded comment*

*Looks at kamikz's video*

Hmm, I could of sworn I saw mini explosions the last time I played the game. Oh well, that statement has been fully blown out. Anyways, I WISH I made that site, it was made by a mod from the Metal Gear Solid unofficial forums, which is known for some members who use unbiased information.. Anyways, I didn't say you knew NOTHING of anything from MGS, just the whole Solidus Bullets.

*Scratches Head*

Any who, who shall win?


It's really hard not to think the bullets are explosive, I did too and still would've unless I read the script. It's really misleading....
And I thought you meant my overall knowledge of MGS. Sorry.

Anyway, I haven't played a single DMC game so I wouldn't really know, but from what I've seen here, most people would say Dante. Though I guess such things are always up to debate. I have no stance in this.

My comment was a slight jab while yours was a full blown insult.

You mean you interpreted it as a full blown insult, at your argument. Your's was a jab at a person.

I see...

Woah...

I thought your name was just ThoraxeMG.. no R.

What's the RMG stand for?

Blax... you could be nicer about it. You can explain things without giving others things to interpret as insults, yeah?

No yelling or warning, just a simple suggestion.

ThoraxeRMG? He's correct in that Wiki generally isn't accepted as a source in debates. Just as a future precaution. Trying to present it as such will likely be met with derision.

*Places hand on chin*
Hmm, a long time ago I valued extremely long names.
So, "RMG" stands for Regtor Morgar-Kerry Gillran.

You know, we do have an off-topic thread. And generally it's not wise to give out personal info like that so casually.

Fact of the matter is Dante has an insane healing factor that pretty much puts Wolverine and even Hulk's healing factor to shame. Dante's speed is off the charts and I won't get into the vast list of abilities Dante has at his disposal like stopping time etc.

Really dude...Raiden managed to outduel Sidious, and Raiden has nothing on Dante.

Solidus is tough....but pitting him against Dante is overkill and spite.

BTW, he's so good at blocking bullets that he can shoot them out of the air with his own shots (he does that as NPC in DMC4 as well). So Solidus' bullets are highly unlikely to kill Dante... even young 16 years old Dante took 90 standart mashine guns shots and the only thing he was complaining about afterwards is his trenchcoat being ruined.
Some explosive bullets...dodgeable and able to be detonated from the safe distance in the manner described above.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Fact of the matter is Dante has an insane healing factor that pretty much puts Wolverine and even Hulk's healing factor to shame. Dante's speed is off the charts and I won't get into the vast list of abilities Dante has at his disposal like stopping time etc.

Really dude...Raiden managed to outduel Sidious, and Raiden has nothing on Dante.

Solidus is tough....but pitting him against Dante is overkill and spite.
lol
hulk regenerated from charred remnats in seconds..as good as dantes healing is, nothing can top that

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Fact of the matter is Dante has an insane healing factor that pretty much puts Wolverine and even Hulk's healing factor to shame. Dante's speed is off the charts and I won't get into the vast list of abilities Dante has at his disposal like stopping time etc.

Really dude...Raiden managed to outduel Sidious, and Raiden has nothing on Dante.

Solidus is tough....but pitting him against Dante is overkill and spite.

Until I see Dante survive and regenerate from having his flesh entirely burned away by a point-blank nuclear explosion, I'm not convinced by that claim.

Hmmm...the closest thing to that was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euaLjELg_eQ
Or fall from several miles' height down into lava lake (after 1st fight with Mundus)= it was in human form and did nothing to him.

But as for regualr showings, on average Dante is better that hairy stinky Canuck...
------------
But that's not really important as we're talking Dante vs Solidus Snake. In fact, puitting Dante against human\paek human gunslingers is f*cking unfair.
A couple of videos to prove my words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLqhh8pFSsE
With Lady- young Dante blocks her bullets with his own shots (infinite ammo advantage is also notable here)
http://www.wegame.com/watch/DMC4_Nero_vs_Dante_Bloody_Palace/
In the 4th game he repeats that trick as NPC...conclusion- the bullets, even explosive ones, are no problem here.

Dante's regen abilities are a far cry from giving Marvel's top-tier's regen a run for their money. Especially Deadpool.

However I think that SBP Was just using hyperbole, and his point is still valid. Snake has no chance here.

Originally posted by kamikz
It's in the "Documentaries of Metal Gear Solid 2", the second disc of Metal Gear Solid 2 Substance. There is the script for the game, I doubt they'd put an unofficial version in there really...
However, it's been a while since I read it, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. I know 100% it's there, however I don't know if there are details I've missed. If someone wants to check it out that's fine, I might do it if I feel like it, but I don't at the moment. (It's at the scene where Ocelot betrays Solidus and shoots Fortune, somewhere around there)




Sorry for double post, was over the 15 minute edit time...



Edit: Ok, I checked it out anyway, and I was right. Here it is....

"Harnessing the accelerator, he deftly evades the Ray's lashing tails and other attacks while sniping out their AI control systems with the P90."

Nowhere does it mention an exploding one, and nothing points at it. The official script from Hideo Kojima has spoken, don't try to refute it with opinions and other fan made articles please. Unless you can prove it...

I think I saw this on a site also...I've heard the Documents are wrong in several areas. For instance, doesn't it say that Solidus looks happy when he gets his eye taken out?
I can get the screen if need be but Solidus looks well...not happy at all. In fact by visual and audio evidence he is rather angry and in pain.

It also mentions about Solidus dying his hair, something never one even hinted at in the game.
The Documents make it appear like Solidus idolizes and wants to replicate Big Boss. But in the actual game, when Ocelot tells him he is "the spitting image of Big Boss", he merely laughs sarcastically and follows it up with a sarcastic remark.

The script isn't wrong just because some parts are either not hinted at well enough, or left out of the game. This is what they were going from, if they decided to leave something out that is fine, but it doesn't make the whole thing invalid. NOTHING shows that the P90 is explosive, really, nothing at all. It is explained how he destroys they RAY's with it, and nowhere else are the bullets exploding.


There is really no proof that he is sarcastic either. (Solidus always laughs like that, Federal Hall for example....) He remarks that he is grateful to Raiden for taking his eye, and the script says he is, so I again see no point in disagreeing with it, calling him sarcastic.
About the harrier crash scene, of course he is in pain, losing an eye hurts, doesn't mean he isn't happy about resembling Big Boss more.



And how would we know if Solidus dyed his hair, it's not like it is ever relevant in the game.
Snake does say "stop impersonating him" when he sees Solidus up close, where some would think this for him impersonating Solid Snake and using his name, it might actually be because he is trying to resemble Big Boss. (Seeing as Snake comments when he sees Solidus' face.)

What the? Why'd you bump this?

Actually, the laugh on Federal Hall is pretty genuine. I'll clip them together to show the difference later.



LPlDymVMScQ

Tell me, does he sound the slightest bit interested or grateful to Raiden?
I don't think so.
He sounds rather uninterested and sarcastic.



Except Solidus isn't impersonating Big Boss. He looks like him becuase...he's a clone.

Besides, look at what Solidus says later...about Solid and Liquid hunting down Big Boss, trying to sever their ties with him. He clearly makes a note of his father with no real interest or tone except to illustrate how Liquid and Solid cared about him and he says nothing of his own feelings on the matter.

I'm all for MGS character analysis and I've written stuff up on Solidus before...He has surprisingly little in common with his father. His hair color also makes perfect sense being naturally gray since he himself is, based on visuals, supposed to look around 20 years older than he chronologically is.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Actually, the laugh on Federal Hall is pretty genuine. I'll clip them together to show the difference later.



LPlDymVMScQ

Tell me, does he sound the slightest bit interested or grateful to Raiden?
I don't think so.
He sounds rather uninterested and sarcastic.



Except Solidus isn't impersonating Big Boss. He looks like him becuase...he's a clone.

Besides, look at what Solidus says later...about Solid and Liquid hunting down Big Boss, trying to sever their ties with him. He clearly makes a note of his father with no real interest or tone except to illustrate how Liquid and Solid cared about him and he says nothing of his own feelings on the matter.

I'm all for MGS character analysis and I've written stuff up on Solidus before...He has surprisingly little in common with his father. His hair color also makes perfect sense being naturally gray since he himself is, based on visuals, supposed to look around 20 years older than he chronologically is.


First of all, I'm unsure what you're trying to get at with this debate. This will not prove in any way that the P90 is explosive, are you just debating the documents for the sake of debating?


Again, you can argue all you like, but if the script written by Kojima says he is actually happy about resembling Big Boss, then he is. This is not proof that the script is false, nor would it be IF it was true. (This is your opinion however, so it's not)
And I find his laughter at Federal Hall similar, but w/e. Really, I don't see how he's sarcastic. He says "perhaps I should be grateful to this kid for that" in a normal tone, I'd say that if he was sarcastic, he'd emphesise on "grateful". Then again, I'm no expert on this, but it only shows how our opinions can be different...


You need to buy the script, find the quote that says he dyed his hair, then you need to find proof he didn't. Your opinion isn't enough for this matter, and don't believe internet sources left and right...


Snake says he is impersonating Big Boss (script), Solidus is happy to lose an eye (script), he says he is grateful to Raiden (sarcastic, debatable), he tells Snake the world needs only one Big Boss. Not only was Big Boss a great soldier, he also stood against his country to fight for his own beliefs, something that Solidus believes in and does as well. I'd say he does try to resemble Big Boss, but why are we debating this really?



All you've really shown here is your opinion, and I'm afraid that doesn't cut it. Even if the script didn't include everything, it doesn't make it wrong. This is what they went by, if the english translators or actors decided to change some line that's fine, doesn't make the whole thing invalid. They are not trapped with the script, not even Kojima. It's right on 98%, there are minor things that aren't included, the P90 is not one of them. So I find no reason for this debate...

What the game presents is more important than the script.
Fact is, Solidus does NOT look happy when he loses his eye. Not. At. All. Thus the game itself contradicts the script.
So, explain that contradiction away please. The game, not even dialog here - the actual visuals that occur in both Japanese and English, show Solidus in pain after losing his eye.

Also, if you've played MG1 or Solid Snake you'd know Big Boss of Outer Heaven was pretty much nuts. Nothing but fandom suggests he was fighting the Patriots or anything. The games themselves haven't covered this area yet to retcon him into a more "human" figre at this point in time. As of what we know now from the actual games...he was pretty evil.

Solidus wasn't. He was trying to free the country by taking down the Patriots.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
What the game presents is more important than the script.
Fact is, Solidus does NOT look happy when he loses his eye. Not. At. All. Thus the game itself contradicts the script.
So, explain that contradiction away please. The game, not even dialog here - the actual visuals that occur in both Japanese and English, show Solidus in pain after losing his eye.

Also, if you've played MG1 or Solid Snake you'd know Big Boss of Outer Heaven was pretty much nuts. Nothing but fandom suggests he was fighting the Patriots or anything. The games themselves haven't covered this area yet to retcon him into a more "human" figre at this point in time. As of what we know now from the actual games...he was pretty evil.

Solidus wasn't. He was trying to free the country by taking down the Patriots.


Oh, I definetely agree with you that the game is more important, but you're not by any means showing me a FACT that this is what the game shows, it's your OPINION. You don't know what Solidus feels, you THINK you know by watching him. Alot of people could disagree with you, which means you cannot really argue the script, unless you have Solidus saying "****ing brat, he took my damn eye. I'll kill that *****" or the like...


Actually, we don't know that. Portable Ops says Ocelot wants to recruit BB to the Patriots, and there's probably something coming up that shows what happens, why he did what he did etc. But we do know that Big Boss wanted a world where soldiers would still have a place, and he was fighting America (and the rest of the world) for it. He was doing what he wanted to do against all others, just like Solidus.

I suppose those both are fair points. But on the topic of fighting the US and the Patriots, you could then argue Liquid is like Big Boss. He's doing that too and apparently making a new Outer Heaven in MGS4. But Liquid, as we all know, is an arrogant, almost insane douchebag with so many mental issues it isn't funny.
I really don't see how he bears any similarity to his father.

Isn't there a Portable Ops 2 coming out? maybe that'll shed some light on the things with Big Boss and Outer Heaven.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
I suppose those both are fair points. But on the topic of fighting the US and the Patriots, you could then argue Liquid is like Big Boss. He's doing that too and apparently making a new Outer Heaven in MGS4. But Liquid, as we all know, is an arrogant, almost insane douchebag with so many mental issues it isn't funny.
I really don't see how he bears any similarity to his father.

Isn't there a Portable Ops 2 coming out? maybe that'll shed some light on the things with Big Boss and Outer Heaven.


Yeah you're right. Though I think Liquid was called a mastermind, he is pretty smart although still on the lunatic fringe. Well whatever, we'll wait for Portable Ops 2 if it comes to see.


Does anyone know when the graphic novel of Metal Gear Solid 2 comes out? I really want that, it's gonna be cool to see Snake's POV in the Plant. (And there are scenes where he fights Vamp with a knife, and disarms Fortune with a kick, at least it looks like that in the trailers...)

I didn't even know there was a graphic novel coming out.
I so wish I had a PSP!!!
Oh well..I'll probably see it on the net or YouTube.

SBP was somewhat exagerating in regards to Dante's healing factor. But on average, his regen is comparable to Wolverine's.

Aside from that, neither he nor Charlotte are kidding about his sharpshooting. I actually just played that last fight with Nero vs. Dante.

You can't hit him with guns in that fight. He just draws his own guns and blocks your shots with his own. The sheer level of hand-eye coordination and reaction speed to be able to do that with 2 handguns simultaniously is mind-boggling.

Not to mention his strength, speed, skill and devil trigger. Or his rediculous weaponry.

this is horrific spite.

Not more horrific that say Terry Bogart vs Dante, but along the lines of that...

Terry would do pretty decent in a H2H fight. Better than Solidus. All out, he dies a minute or two later than Solidus. Terry's durability is pretty damn good for a human.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Terry would do pretty decent in a H2H fight. Better than Solidus. All out, he dies a minute or two later than Solidus. Terry's durability is pretty damn good for a human.

I suggest you dig that fight and have good laugh...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=382309&highlight=title%3A%28Terry+Bogard+vs+Dante%29

Terry has better fighting technique than Dante if we take our whitehaired halfdemonic beauty without other powers- just the H2H skills vs skills. In pure H2H Dante is good but skillwise he's on about the same level as K' if we take KOF fighters, not on say Iori level or what (that's pure skill, not talking about Dante superhuman reaction and movement speed, strength etc).

But the funny thing was that Dante was allowed to use ALL his powers and weaponry minus time manip. Terry would have been dead in first few seconds...

Snake gets his ass handed to him in seconds. Dante has strength, speed, durability, and weaponry on him, then add to that the fact that he can DT and SS is royally effed.

TTS Fox > Dante though.

.... 5.7mm P90 rounds are armour penetrators, NOT explosive tipped... you cant add explosive tipps to a 5.7mm bullet, they have metal cores in them that enable armour penetration and dissalow the use of explosive caseless tips.

Not to mention that even if he did customoze the bullets that way, the exposion would be pretty frigging weak since you can't fitt any more than a few grams in a 5.7mm hollowtip, and you'd be lacking the AP factor right there, the reason we see Solidus's shots explode when they hit the RAYs and not at any other time, is because Solidus attacked vital areas where the armour is thin or non existant.

Not only is this supported by the script, but it's also very plausible since he had control of the Prototype for the better part of 2 years.

Still was a kickass fight with him running around bullets.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
.... 5.7mm P90 rounds are armour penetrators, NOT explosive tipped... you cant add explosive tipps to a 5.7mm bullet, they have metal cores in them that enable armour penetration and dissalow the use of explosive caseless tips.

Not to mention that even if he did customoze the bullets that way, the exposion would be pretty frigging weak since you can't fitt any more than a few grams in a 5.7mm hollowtip, and you'd be lacking the AP factor right there, the reason we see Solidus's shots explode when they hit the RAYs and not at any other time, is because Solidus attacked vital areas where the armour is thin or non existant.

Not only is this supported by the script, but it's also very plausible since he had control of the Prototype for the better part of 2 years.

You're too late bud.
The argument is closed.
Damnit, why is this thread up!

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Fact of the matter is Dante has an insane healing factor that pretty much puts Wolverine and even Hulk's healing factor to shame. Dante's speed is off the charts and I won't get into the vast list of abilities Dante has at his disposal like stopping time etc.

Really dude...Raiden managed to outduel Sidious, and Raiden has nothing on Dante.

Solidus is tough....but pitting him against Dante is overkill and spite.

Dante's healing factor better then Wolverine's, I doubt that..

LoL.

Super lol!!!!!!!!! you fail nuthugger

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
LoL.

Damnit Superboy Prime, why did you bring this thread back!?

Morgoth demanded he bring this thread back to spread corruption and hate.

Morgoth got punked seven times by an Elf.

Meh.

Well he did grow weaker over the years.
As Melkor at least he was pretty damn uber.

dur

Melkor, also known as Morgoth, was at one time the second strongest being in what you would call the Lord of the Rings universe.
He was kinda like Satan in he rebelled against God (Eru). He was stronger than nearly all the Valar I believe. They're like Seraphim.

dante rips solidus in half

Better HF than Wolverine and Hulk? Lolz.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Better HF than Wolverine and Hulk? Lolz.

Better than current Wolvie (who has lost half of his soul to Angel of Death as a part of a deal about his uberest feat of regenerating from sceleton)- easily. Hulk- don't know.

wolverine sucks.
i'm the best at what i do. and what i do is...overated!

Hey charlotte! what you up to, woman?

~Sado