Originally posted by Gideon
Vader possesses a greater connection to the Force than Bane, as previously established.
1. Exactly where and when was this "established?" Based on the fact that Bane is already leagues beyond Vader (as is evident by his planetary level Force showings) with far less experience and training under his belt, I fail to see how you can arrive at such a conclusion.
2. As you did in our last debate (which you've yet to respond to), you're forming conclusions whilst only taking potential into consideration, which as a factor is completely irrelevant until you can substantiate how much of it has been realised.
1. Given the orbalisks' invulnerable nature, which applies to physical attacks as well as to energy, it's pretty clear that they're made out of some pretty hard stuff. Aside from that, the orbalisks pump substantial amounts of adrenaline and darkside energies into Bane, further adding to how much stronger the armour as a whole makes him. Factor in Bane's considerable physical conditioning even without the orbalisk armour (where he's described as a "mountain of muscle"
, as well as the vast superiority in Force ability (I don't care if you disagree, I've already successfully argued the case in the recent past, and briefly in this thread, and it's the only valid conclusion that someone could arrive at) which can be applied with enhancing Bane's strength, and I'd say, taking everything into consideration, Bane is, as a whole, easily stronger than Vader.
The DSSB stats say as much, and according to LFL, the stats are based on established canon, and are intended to act as a valid device to form comparisons between different subjects (as can be seen here).
2. Ignoring all of that anyways, the main attribute of the orbalisks, which you appear to have ignored, is not how strong they make Bane, but how durable they make him. For all intents and purposes, they make Bane's entire body invulnerable (seeing as this is hand-to-hand combat we're dealing with here, and their only weakness is Force lightning), meaning the only way anyone here can ever harm Bane is through one minuscule (in comparison to their entire bodies) area: his head.
Using mostly his Force powers, yes, and the few instances where he used his bare hands, it's highly possible that he was using his Shatterpoint ability (which wouldn't be applicable against Bane's orbalisks, seeing as how they're invulnerable to any kind of damage with the exception of Force lightning, and thus, canonically, possess no other weakness that Mace's Shatterpoint would be able to exploit).
With the help of his lightsaber, yes.
Which means his body became as physically conditioned as it was ever going to be, and he reached his full potential in using the Force to enhance his physical capabilities.
Impressive, but as evidence, only tells us how good he became in relation to his full capabilities.
I fail to see how, alone, it compares to someone who:
a) Was extremely physically conditioned himself, being described as a "mountain of muscle."
b) Is so far beyond him in Force ability that Maul looks like a non-force-sensitive new born female in comparison.
c) Receives substantial doses of adrenaline and darkside energies, both of which add to his physical capabilities.
d) Is covered in armour that's immune to any form of physical damage.
Really, I'm genuinely quite shocked at how poor your points have been.
You take worthless pieces of evidence and try to put them on a pedestal, forming conclusions that only truly reflect on your skewed personal opinion.
As you say on the constant, "Raise your game or get the hell out of the court."
Which is an argument from personal belief.
Substantiate that stuff you mentioned, and then get back to me.
Or... Bane uses his time freezing speed to run circles around them, they all get dizzy and lose consciousness (with the exception of Vader who, by that point in time, is in the middle of having a heart attack), and Bomo Greenbark (the Nosaurian Gangster featured in the Dark Times series of comics who officially puts the B into Badman) randomly turns up out of nowhere and declares Bane the winner by KO .
