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Now the the great fight is over and itachi is supposed to be dead?


WTF

Supposed being the key word. It looks like he died although he could just be unconscious but imo he died from using up to much / every last bit of chakra.

Fvck Sasuke.

Wait what happened?

You couldn't ask this in the Naruto Thread which is only THREE topics down.. WHY?

But to answer your question, Itachi seems to be pretty freakin' dead.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Wait what happened? It's time-skip Sasuke what else can happen but him winning but some lucky circumstance.

Basically, Itachi exhausted far too much chakra.

Well if Zetsu's right it was more than that and something happened to him before Sasuke showed up.

I don't believe the fight ends this "early", with guys like pain as a superior, it could of been yet another bunshin sasuke fought but with like 80-90% chakra.

You would think Zetsu would know if they did that though. And when he died he would return to looking like the actually person being used. Course....we haven't really seen Itachi after his death, and Zetsu did leave right away so you may be onto something.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24981&pagenumber=1
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24981&pagenumber=1
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24981&pagenumber=1
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24981&pagenumber=1

What's this Susanoo i'm hearing about?

Some badly drawn MS puppet thing that destroys every thing, I think its some sort of God in japanese mythology. What I'm trying to say is I have no idea.

So how did it get beat?

It didn't.

Itachi used it to beat down Sasuke's final attacks, then Itachi "died" of chakra over consumption. Once he died it just diapered.

On wonder how much Susanno is going to make people have Itachi win anything with the whole it can block any attack no matter how powerful line.

Well Itachi already had the ultimate plot device technique with MS, point finger, win.

Yeah, seriously. It was pretty godly.

Who knew that simply having lots of "hatred" could undermine it though

madara has sasuke now, this could be interesting.

I smell a sex tape.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Who knew that simply having lots of "hatred" could undermine it though
Wait what?

Sasuke's hatred let him beat the mangekyou sharingan's Tsukiyomi with a normal sharingan because you know...Sasuke's so much more skilled than Itachi with his sharingan so he can reverse the genjutsu on Itachi.

Now Since the new Manga is out we see that tobi Got our little sasuke and they also go itachi's body and they say he is dead so i don't know..... but i smelll a time Skip...

I hope not.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke's hatred let him beat the mangekyou sharingan's Tsukiyomi with a normal sharingan because you know...Sasuke's so much more skilled than Itachi with his sharingan so he can reverse the genjutsu on Itachi.
OMG, that is retarded.

Wait, so is Sasuke going to take Itachi's eyes now and become even MORE overpowered?

No Sasuke don't need his eyes because they are useless, Itachi was going blind and his eyes were bleeding during the fight.

Okay I thought that any eyes would give you immortality when transplanted, not just healthy ones.

I dunno but I don't think it works if the person has MS, they need to have normal sharingan I think.

I don't think it really matters what sharingan you have because Itachi was going to take Sasuke's eyes even though he gave the secret to getting the MS and everything for Sasuke to get it. I just wonder if it only works with brothers and not any other Uchiha.


Also Sasuke didn't take Itachi's eyes because he passed out and when he woke up Tobi had already taken him away and Itachi's body wasn't around. Not that I think Sasuke would have taken them anyway.

HINT. i was re reading it and it was funny zetsu said to tobi on how he can't move at the speed of light... haha but ya know i read in a spoiler that naruto still hasn't used any techniques cause jiriaya Told him not to.... and Considering J-boss is dead Naruto isn't gonna have anything to hold back and he might know the 4th's great tech's... we will see and the information was from a interview from the writer of Naruto.

soooo i don't know we just have to find out and also

new akuts members are to be coming

WHAT IF TOBI RECRUITS SASUKE TO REPLACE ITATCHI

would he do it..................we will find out

WHO PEIN IS LOL

I wonder how many people are going to take that out of context like they do with Instant Transmission for Gokou since Tobi has the ability to warp places and isn't his own speed.

I want to know what'll happen when Naruto finds out about Jiraiya and that frog gives him the scroll thing Jiraiya kept.

Also unless Tobi has some good skills at convincing people Sasuke is pretty much going to want to kill him also since Sasuke has already said he was going to kill him so joining the Akatsuki would probably be the last thing Sasuke would ever do.

Sasuke probably already realised by now that he isnt strong enough to kill madara. madara will train Sasuke. and Sasuke will backstab madara and kill him

I really want to know what that whole key thing Jiryia was talking about is and how Naruto will act when he finds out Pein killed him. Does any one else think it's a bit sad that no one ever bothered to mention the 4th is his dad?

I do. Seriously Jiraiya could have told him when they were training at the very least. All the adults have to know he's the 4th's son. That's not really something he'd hide is it?

a lot of your questions answered.

Yeah but it's like a secret. How many people who realistically want to kill Naruto if everyone knew who he was. Besides, i would imagine Naruto has pretty much worked it out bu now... The only hole in that idea is thathe still hasn't realised Hianat's feelings.... but yeah, i would suspect he's cottoned onto the 4th.

So, does Sasuke have the immortal Sharingan now or what?

Apparantly Sasuke has MS thanks to Itachi. Questions answered and so many new ones pop up lol damn I hate it.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Yeah but it's like a secret. How many people who realistically want to kill Naruto if everyone knew who he was. Besides, i would imagine Naruto has pretty much worked it out bu now... The only hole in that idea is thathe still hasn't realised Hianat's feelings.... but yeah, i would suspect he's cottoned onto the 4th.

So, does Sasuke have the immortal Sharingan now or what? I think we all realize Naruto isn't the brightest so he could have a picture of him and the fourth side by side both doing their stupid little grins and he probably still wouldn't notice any resemblance.

And I don't think he'd have the immortal one. He didn't exactly take Itachi's eyes just his jutsu but Itachi may have found out you don't need to take somebodies eyes.It's Sasuke so he's probably immortal, going to beat Tobi, and become Hokage forever after going back to Konoha. Well the last part may be a stretch but the rest isn't.

Next Up: Sasuke beats all of the Biju and Akatsuki at once!

I put $50 down on it

I'd go with Sasuke going to fight them all at once but instead they all die by killing themselves or from being weakened by something already.

sasuke has itachi's techniques now

Looses Orochimaru and gets something Orochimaru was looking for along with a barrier than can't be penetrated by any attack.

Yea..why doesn't Naruto ever get anything handed to him?

Well, he had Kyuubi handed to him. But yeah, Sasuke certains does have a silver platter thats always full for him.

But if Naruto lets out to much of Kyuubi it kills him slowly, and he looses control of himself. Sure Naruto can get great power but it's a big cost.

Maybe Naruto will get something when that scroll gets to him though.

Hopefully.

Well on the other hand Sasuke did work way harder then Naruto. But anyway, how did Sasuke get Itachi's techniques?

Itachi transferred his techniques into him when he tapped him on the forehead before dying.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well on the other hand Sasuke did work way harder then Naruto. But anyway, how did Sasuke get Itachi's techniques? Sasuke never worked harder than Naruto. Naruto wasn't as lazy as everybody thinks he was just very unskilled at the beginning which was why he was so weak. It wasn't from lack of training.

But yea like it was said..Apparently Itachi can transfer his Mangekyou Sharingan and abilities which he did so when he tapped Sasuke's head like he did when they were younger.

Um why the hell did he do that?

Well apparently to try and keep Tobi from telling Sasuke anything or to kill Tobi or both. Apparently it activated when Tobi showed his sharingan making Sasuke use Amaterasu. Yea it's all very confusing and probably ending up with Itachi not being evil since Tobi said Itachi was trying to protect Sasuke.

Wait Sasuke is fighting Tobi now?

Sasuke's sitting in bed while Tobi is talking. Tobi was about to take off his mask when Amaterasu hit him. But he's pretty much unhittable so it didn't effect him at all so he put his mask back on to hide the sharingan, and Sasuke's to weak to actually do anything after passing out from fighting Itachi. So he's just listening right now but I won't be surprised if he ends up fighting.

I just want to know what's going on with Kisame and Suigetsu. They've been forgotten in all this it seems.

What is it that makes Tobi unhittable? Is it his immortality or what?

Apparently he can warp space and time so that stuff goes through him along with teleporting anywhere nearly instantly without using hand signs. That's really all he's shown. Warping and having every single attack thrown at him go through him.

Geeze. And Amaterasu was always a favorite jutsu of mine...

I just realized Tobi's immortality doesn't make him unable to be killed. He admits if he hadn't kept some secrets from Itachi, which I guess the whole warping thing since Itachi already knew he was immortal, he would have been killed.

Maybe he knows some special way to kill an immortal.

With Amaterasu from Sasuke's eyes? That's the attack that he admitted would have killed him.

he's immortal, not invulnerable, thats why he needs the warping/intangibility techniques(imo).

yeah man, i need to see some hidden mist village carnage.

Originally posted by Kento
With Amaterasu from Sasuke's eyes? That's the attack that he admitted would have killed him.
Wait i'm confused. What did he say exactly (I need a quote)?

You don't have to be invulnerable to not be able to die.

Yea to much Uchiha fighting isn't good for the eyes. We need some swords and water jutsu's going around.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Wait i'm confused. What did he say exactly (I need a quote)? He comes out of the darkness after he gets hit with Amaterasu and says Itachi's fail-safe was more fail outloud and then thinking he said If I hadn't of kept something secret from him I'd be dead.

Originally posted by Kento
He comes out of the darkness after he gets hit with Amaterasu and says Itachi's fail-safe was more fail outloud and then thinking he said If I hadn't of kept something secret from him I'd be dead.

Which got me thinking.

This is excellent writing, imo. This leaves the door wide open for plenty of twists. This is along the same lines of "what hidden techniques did Naruto learn that he hasn't been able to show yet?"

I am hooked on this manga because I WANT to know what happens next. He entangles you with a large inter-related matrix of plots. Very attention grabbing, imo.

yeah, his air element/rasangan supposedly surpasses anything kakashi can muster.

sigh. they REALLY should rename it "fables of the uchihas" as opposed to NARUTO at this point. really, i lliked naruto cause it was centred around the character development of NARUTO. ofcourse im still hooked to the manga, but still. nuthing beats the pre shippuden ANIME naruto.

Originally posted by Kento
He comes out of the darkness after he gets hit with Amaterasu and says Itachi's fail-safe was more fail outloud and then thinking he said If I hadn't of kept something secret from him I'd be dead.
Right. What i'm saying is maybe if he'd revealed his secret Itachi would have used a different technique (that could have killed him.)

Is it just me or does Naruto need to learn some jutsu he can actually use. Forbidden to use the Wind Shuriken, going past 3-tailed will begin to kill him, and then there is whatever Jiraiya told him not to use.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
sigh. they REALLY should rename it "fables of the uchihas" as opposed to NARUTO at this point. really, i lliked naruto cause it was centred around the character development of NARUTO. ofcourse im still hooked to the manga, but still. nuthing beats the pre shippuden ANIME naruto. I think kishimoto is creating a perfect opponent for naruto to defeat to become hokage. they need to make you believe naruto beat a very strong opponent to win the title so they are investing heavily in sasuke's story.

for example the rivalry between Jiraiya and orochimaru, the slacker vs the prodogy

hmmm, naruto should get either two shurikens with which he can use his wind attacks with, or needs to learn body flicker to move fast. or he needs to learn the third hokage's teleportation seal. MAN shippuden doesnt have ONE decent naruto fight other than the 4 tails. he was simply the encoure against the immortal akatsuki. we need COMPLETE fights of naruto.

on a secondary note, how does the akatsuki heirarchy currently stand?

madara
pain
zetsu
konan
kisame

maybe the kyuubi will be making its debut as a major villian in a while. because i really dont see just madara being the final opposition. its either the kyuubi or pain in some form or naruto vs sasuke.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
I think kishimoto is creating a perfect opponent for naruto to defeat to become hokage. they need to make you believe naruto beat a very strong opponent to win the title so they are investing heavily in sasuke's story.

for example the rivalry between Jiraiya and orochimaru, the slacker vs the prodogy Naruto's greatest weapon in battle is practically useless against Tobi though and perhaps soon Sasuke if he can unlock the final secret. There shouldn't be a way he can win. Besides Naruto becoming Hokage is believable as soon as he gets older. He's stronger than Kakashi, makes friends pretty easy, and is good at getting people motivated and everything. He's got everything but the brains and well skill to be a good Hokage but he's not even an adult yet so that will probably change.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm, naruto should get either two shurikens with which he can use his wind attacks with, or needs to learn body flicker to move fast. or he needs to learn the third hokage's teleportation seal. MAN shippuden doesnt have ONE decent naruto fight other than the 4 tails. he was simply the encoure against the immortal akatsuki. we need COMPLETE fights of naruto.

on a secondary note, how does the akatsuki heirarchy currently stand?

madara
pain
zetsu
konan
kisame

maybe the kyuubi will be making its debut as a major villian in a while. because i really dont see just madara being the final opposition. its either the kyuubi or pain in some form or naruto vs sasuke. Well Naruto is going to have to fight Pein at some point. Maybe we'll get to see what happens when Naruto gets revenge for Jiraiya. Hopefully it'll be a good fight for Naruto along with showing us more on the Rinnengan.

Sasuke...he doesn't really seem as if he wants to fight Naruto and with having a Mangekyou and Itachi being dead..he really has no reason to try and kill Naruto. It won't help anymore now.

IMO opinion Sasuke would be a way better Hokage then Naruto, he seems like the kind of guy who would sit down and get things done efficiently.

Originally posted by King Kandy
IMO opinion Sasuke would be a way better Hokage then Naruto, he seems like the kind of guy who would sit down and get things done efficiently.

Maybe...if you can get him to stop cutting himself. hmm

Sasuke has the skill and brains to be Hokage but I don't think he really has anything else worthwhile to be a Hokage. He's not really caring, he isn't exactly somebody I can see who would sacrifice himself for everybody, and he's not the nicest person. But I guess Tsunade hasn't started a war with her additude yet.

I know but I just can't see Naruto making good choices as a politician. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who could get through all the conflicts of interest and compromise since he has such a "don't back down" attitude. Like when they were in the forest of death, Sasuke knew the best thing to do would be to run away from Orochimaru but Naruto attacked head on since he didn't want act cowardly.

That's why I just think if Naruto would mature just a bit more he'd be a better Hokage. What Naruto lacks Sasuke makes up for and vice versa. Maybe they should just find a way to become one person. Keep Sasuke's brains and skills but Naruto hopeless optimism and ability to inspire.

Yeah, running away from you're country when you're declared war on is a much better idea that standing and fighting....wait

Right but I don't think "Hopeless Optimism" is a good thing if you're a politician, you need to be very realistic and back down if you can't get what you want. For instance, here's another one:

Back in the Chuunin exam, they did that "tenth question" thing where you put your team at risk of never taking the exam again and never becoming chuunin. The idea is that it's good for a shinobi to put themselves at risk to complete their mission, BUT the fact that he took it doesn't make me confident in his ability to know when the risks of many outweigh the possible benefits...

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Yeah, running away from you're country when you're declared war on is a much better idea that standing and fighting....wait
Yes, within the context I was discussing, it is. If you know you have no chance against the invaders and that if you fight you'll all be slaughtered, you should take the option that WON'T have everyone who you are supposedly protecting killed. Sasuke knew they had 0 chance of winning, so guess what? He did what he thought would save them. Naruto charged in with NO consideration to the fact that he would probably end up with every one of them slaughtered.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Right but I don't think "Hopeless Optimism" is a good thing if you're a politician, you need to be very realistic and back down if you can't get what you want. For instance, here's another one:

Back in the Chuunin exam, they did that "tenth question" thing where you put your team at risk of never taking the exam again and never becoming chuunin. The idea is that it's good for a shinobi to put themselves at risk to complete their mission, BUT the fact that he took it doesn't make me confident in his ability to know when the risks of many outweigh the possible benefits... See I think his optimism is what makes him such a good candidate. Because of it he's loyal to a fault and would defend everybody even if it wasn't Konoha but one of the ally countries to the death if needed. Sure it may blindside him a bit to treachery but still.

Besides why I think Naruto would make a good Hokage is it optimism, and his kindness, and his ability to change people. I admit he needs to mature a bit and think first sure but still.

Those ally countries are always just allies on the surface. They would backstab him if they got the chance, Sasuke would keep a healthy amount of skepticism about the other countries, and try and keep tabs on them. Naruto would just trust them to do the right thing. Which one will do better when the countries finally come to blows? It won't be Naruto's kingdom since he was totally unprepared.

Naruto put his own benefit (Chuunin) above the risk that two others would lose their chances forever. Good for a Shinobi, bad for a Hokage. How many people can he gt away with doing that for? Can he put his optimism above 200 people's possible deaths? Or 2000 people? Sasuke calculates the risks and decides the best option, Naruto just assumes the best and runs in without thinking. He doesn't avoid confrontations.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Those ally countries are always just allies on the surface. They would backstab him if they got the chance, Sasuke would keep a healthy amount of skepticism about the other countries, and try and keep tabs on them. Naruto would just trust them to do the right thing. Which one will do better when the countries finally come to blows? It won't be Naruto's kingdom since he was totally unprepared.

Naruto put his own benefit (Chuunin) above the risk that two others would lose their chances forever. Good for a Shinobi, bad for a Hokage. How many people can he gt away with doing that for? Can he put his optimism above 200 people's possible deaths? Or 2000 people? Sasuke calculates the risks and decides the best option, Naruto just assumes the best and runs in without thinking. He doesn't avoid confrontations. He'll always have the Sand to help him out because of his personality.

And like I said if Naruto just matured a bit and began to think first he'd be better. And running away won't be always an option if they are being attacked while in the village. It's either win or die. The couldn't run from Orochimaru when he attacked with the Sand and Sound who outnumbered them, they couldn't run from Kyuubi who killed a lot of people.

Maybe for now but what happens when they get a new leader? He might not take so kindly to Konoha. Naruto would just assume that their friendship would continue, Sasuke would make sure it was.

Anyway I wasn't advising running away as the best solution at all. I was using that as an instance to show how Sasuke cared more about making good choices then about honor or optimism. He won't always run away, what he WILL do is calculate the best option and then employ it. If the only options are win or die, he'll choose the best one. Naruto will always think of it as win or die, even if there are many more options. Sasuke considers all options. Naruto didn't even consider running away a possibility.

I actually think Naruto would have a better chance at keeping Sand or anything as an ally by actually making friends with them.

Yes but at least Naruto would be so sure of whatever it is he does even if it is wrong. There is always the chance that Sasuke would be to busy weighing everything that it may be to late to make the right choice. The problem with weighing the options is that you don't always have time to.

Also Sasuke wanted to run away from Orochimaru but do you really think Orochimaru would have let Sasuke go just because Sasuke was scared and wanted to live?

Originally posted by Kento
I actually think Naruto would have a better chance at keeping Sand or anything as an ally by actually making friends with them.
Maybe but he won't be able to react when they aren't his friends. Also Sasuke is better a compromising.

Originally posted by Kento
Yes but at least Naruto would be so sure of whatever it is he does even if it is wrong. There is always the chance that Sasuke would be to busy weighing everything that it may be to late to make the right choice. The problem with weighing the options is that you don't always have time to.
Oh yeah right. Sasuke makes decisions on the fly (like in the orochimaru example) it took him like what? A second to realize they needed to get out of there. Weighing options doesn't take much time. You do it all the time, whenever anyone asks you a question you consider it and come up with an answer, even if it seems automatic. Yes you almost 100% of the time have options to consider, if being THROWN INTO COMBAT with Orochimaru still gave him time to consider his options, I don't know what situation he would be unable to do so in.

Originally posted by Kento
Also Sasuke wanted to run away from Orochimaru but do you really think Orochimaru would have let Sasuke go just because Sasuke was scared and wanted to live?
Had a better chance of working then anything else... he was willing to give up his scroll because he assumed Orochimaru was just someone taking the exam. That was the right choice at the time, it had a good chance of succeeding.

BTW, who were the other two guys who were protending to be grass ninja?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Maybe but he won't be able to react when they aren't his friends. Also Sasuke is better a compromising.


Oh yeah right. Sasuke makes decisions on the fly (like in the orochimaru example) it took him like what? A second to realize they needed to get out of there. Weighing options doesn't take much time. You do it all the time, whenever anyone asks you a question you consider it and come up with an answer, even if it seems automatic. Yes you almost 100% of the time have options to consider, if being THROWN INTO COMBAT with Orochimaru still gave him time to consider his options, I don't know what situation he would be unable to do so in.


Had a better chance of working then anything else... he was willing to give up his scroll because he assumed Orochimaru was just someone taking the exam. That was the right choice at the time, it had a good chance of succeeding.

BTW, who were the other two guys who were protending to be grass ninja? Sasuke may be able to make more allies but the allies I think Naruto would make allies that would be more trustworthy.

Keeping yourself alive or fighting and dying isn't exactly a huge decision for somebody like Sasuke to make. It was his own life not the well being of the village or some country asking for help or anything. Sasuke saw he was overpowered and wanted to run because he didn't want to die.

It had a chance of working if Orochimaru didn't want Sasuke but he had wanted Sasuke so it was a wrong decision. Not to mention they could have gotten the scroll from somebody else so it also wasn't that hard of a decision.

I don't think it ever says who the other two grass ninja were. They were probably just some Sound Ninja flunkies.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke may be able to make more allies but the allies I think Naruto would make allies that would be more trustworthy.
I disagree. You won't make an alliance because you think the leader of the country is a great guy, you'll do it because both countries can benefit.

Originally posted by Kento
Keeping yourself alive or fighting and dying isn't exactly a huge decision for somebody like Sasuke to make.
Exactly! But it's a decision Naruto couldn't make, that's why Sasuke is better.

Originally posted by Kento
It was his own life not the well being of the village or some country asking for help or anything. Sasuke saw he was overpowered and wanted to run because he didn't want to die.
Actually no, it was others life as well. He only snapped to his decision after he saw Sakura suffering under the genjutsu Orochimaru used.

Originally posted by Kento
It had a chance of working if Orochimaru didn't want Sasuke but he had wanted Sasuke so it was a wrong decision. Not to mention they could have gotten the scroll from somebody else so it also wasn't that hard of a decision.
It was the right decision given the information he had. All info pointed towards Orochimaru being a Genin, so that's what Sasuke based his decision on

Originally posted by King Kandy
I disagree. You won't make an alliance because you think the leader of the country is a great guy, you'll do it because both countries can benefit.


Exactly! But it's a decision Naruto couldn't make, that's why Sasuke is better.


Actually no, it was others life as well. He only snapped to his decision after he saw Sakura suffering under the genjutsu Orochimaru used.


It was the right decision given the information he had. All info pointed towards Orochimaru being a Genin, so that's what Sasuke based his decision on Yes but everybody Sasuke would make as an ally would be potential enemies also. I think Naruto would probably make more trustworthy allies.

Yea I don't think running from a fight just because you don't want to die makes Sasuke better.

Sasuke also didn't want to die. He wanted to stay alive so he could fight his brother so what other choice did he really have. It was die or escape to get stronger.

Not true. Naruto is too gullible and naive. He would make plenty of friends but they would not be real friends. Any true politician would see Naruto's eagerness to be "friends" as a way to play him and would take advantage of that. As noted above if he was Hokage Konoha would be betrayed alot.



Sasuke saw that if he fought then his whole team would die. Orichimaru had already WTFpwned him and Sakura earlier. He was willing to give up the scrolls so that they may both, and live another day. There is never any shame in a tactical retreat.

Damn. Kandy beat me to the punch.

Originally posted by Kento
Yes but everybody Sasuke would make as an ally would be potential enemies also. I think Naruto would probably make more trustworthy allies.
Nah, people would take advantage of his trusting nature constantly.

Originally posted by Kento
Yea I don't think running from a fight just because you don't want to die makes Sasuke better.
No my point is that it shows he makes rational decisions instead of just charging in.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke also didn't want to die. He wanted to stay alive so he could fight his brother so what other choice did he really have. It was die or escape to get stronger.
Yes. Whereas Naruto chose dying. I wonder who made the smart decision here?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Nah, people would take advantage of his trusting nature constantly.

No my point is that it shows he makes rational decisions instead of just charging in.

Yes. Whereas Naruto chose dying. I wonder who made the smart decision here? Well Naruto doesn't exactly like everybody he meets though. And he has the uncanny ability to change most people also. *shrugs*

My point is that he only made the decision because of his want to kill Itachi and fear of death nothing else.

Naruto didn't really choose death. He chose to fight not anything else because he promised he'd never be scared again.

Can you prove that it was just about him wanting to live to kill Itachi? Can you prove that it had had nothing to do with protecting Sakura?

In the Zabuza arc Sasuke was willing to die to save Naruto. He did actually almost die saving him. Sasuke doesn't seriously become obsessed with killing Itachi until the beginning of the SR arc. When he realizes that his development is starting to slow and Naruto's catching up to him in power. When Itachi casually tossed him aside and told him he wasn't intrested in him but in Naruto that was like a slap in the face for Sasuke.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm, naruto should get either two shurikens with which he can use his wind attacks with, or needs to learn body flicker to move fast. or he needs to learn the third hokage's teleportation seal. MAN shippuden doesnt have ONE decent naruto fight other than the 4 tails. he was simply the encoure against the immortal akatsuki. we need COMPLETE fights of naruto.

on a secondary note, how does the akatsuki heirarchy currently stand?

madara
pain
zetsu
konan
kisame

maybe the kyuubi will be making its debut as a major villian in a while. because i really dont see just madara being the final opposition. its either the kyuubi or pain in some form or naruto vs sasuke. i would at least place kisame over konan , due to her inability to withstand moister.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
Can you prove that it was just about him wanting to live to kill Itachi? Can you prove that it had had nothing to do with protecting Sakura?

In the Zabuza arc Sasuke was willing to die to save Naruto. He did actually almost die saving him. Sasuke doesn't seriously become obsessed with killing Itachi until the beginning of the SR arc. When he realizes that his development is starting to slow and Naruto's catching up to him in power. When Itachi casually tossed him aside and told him he wasn't intrested in him but in Naruto that was like a slap in the face for Sasuke. Hmm maybe I'm thinking about the anime or maybe I'm mixing up the part where he talks about Itachi and if he isn't able to face Orochimaru he'll never be able to kill Itachi. Though Sasuke admits he is scared and he realizes Naruto is right when he tried to give the scroll. Naruto says there is no guarantee that Orochimaru would let them go even if they gave him the scroll and that Sasuke was freaking out to much to realize the truth. Not that they say his name at that time but still.

At least Sasuke's plan had a chance of working. Naruto's plan (given their understanding of Orochimaru's motives at the time) had absolutely no chance of working.

Given the understanding of Orochimaru's motives niether did Sasukes.

Since at given point Orochi was just testing Sasuke, he wasn't going to let him go at any rate.

Like I said GIVEN WHAT THEY UNDERSTOOD OF HIS MOTIVES (that he was a super-powerful Genin) Sasuke did what was best. He made the right decision given the faulty information.

But why wouldn't the thought have even come up for Sasuke that maybe giving the scroll up would still not save them? If Naruto was able to actually think it I'm actually wondering why Sasuke wasn't able to. Unless Sasuke was just trying to think of someway to get Oro to go away.

hmm, has any1 noticed how sasuke might be currently one of the most powerful characters in the series. i mean think about it. with his own shaaringan and jutsus and skill + all of urochimaru's awesome jutsus and special body traits + itachi's jutsus. lol.

Originally posted by Kento
But why wouldn't the thought have even come up for Sasuke that maybe giving the scroll up would still not save them? If Naruto was able to actually think it I'm actually wondering why Sasuke wasn't able to. Unless Sasuke was just trying to think of someway to get Oro to go away.
Well Orochimaru would have zero reason to kill them after he gave them the scroll, unless he was a psycho who just liked killing. He was seeming pretty crazy but not enough that i'd say it was a bad idea.

and another thing, why have people in naruto completely stopped using scrolls to perform jutsus, i mean, it does look like a nice idea for kishi.

Have they? Tenten still uses them, and Sasori did too if i'm not mistaken. Didn't Jaraiya too?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Like I said GIVEN WHAT THEY UNDERSTOOD OF HIS MOTIVES (that he was a super-powerful Genin) Sasuke did what was best. He made the right decision given the faulty information.

Given their understanding Orochimaru was obsessed with killing, and the whole prey and predator.

Only a fool would assume he'd have gone home if you gave him the scroll.

In which case Sasuke was being naive

Well a bunch of jutsu doesn't really make a person the most powerful. And Sasuke's not really beaten anybody worth mentioning without some kind of circumstance. Though he'll probably never technically loose a fight in the manga though if it keeps up like it is.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well Orochimaru would have zero reason to kill them after he gave them the scroll, unless he was a psycho who just liked killing. He was seeming pretty crazy but not enough that i'd say it was a bad idea. He chased them down, toyed with them, and nearly killed them already. I'd say him being a killer was pretty evident.

not worth mentioning????

diedara had to kill himself just to have a chance of killing sasuke, he failed, and sasuke hadnt even used his most powerful jutsus. the thousands of shinobis that uro put him up against. uro himself and his body stealing jutsu, taking over his body. all the level two cursed sealed huys surrounding the huge guy wiht the cursed seal. scaring suigetsu and the curse seal dude. beating itachi's tsukiymo and surviving against the amateras, beating sai's jutsus. even yamamoto cudnt handle him sasuke is very uber currently. not to mention the pre chuunin feats against, naruto and 1 tails.

yes its true, urochimaru would have killed sasuke. he was TESTING him to see if he was fit as a vessel for him to begin with and this is proven later whne he lets him live and comments on how sasuke's potential surpasses even itachi and how they are definately brothers. do remember that the chances of sasuke actually surviving the cursed seal were only 10% yet uro still gave it to him, knowing that he might die.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Have they? Tenten still uses them, and Sasori did too if i'm not mistaken. Didn't Jaraiya too?

Yep. They all did.



Not necessarily. At that point Orichimaru had proven to be much stronger then both of them. So their options were:

A) Fight and definetly die.

or

B) Give up the scrolls and possibly die. Or stall for time.

B is obviously the more logical decision. Anything is more logical then "Rush in headfirst and head on and feel the furze of my fist!!11111!!!!!" tactic that Naruto ALWAYS uses.

I don't even see why this is still going on. As far as tactics and overall good sense is concerned Sasuke had is it in the bag. Naruto is quite frankly an idiot. Post TS not as much but pre-TS definitely. The only thing Naruto has going for him is good instincts and a crap load of chakra at his disposal.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
not worth mentioning????

diedara had to kill himself just to have a chance of killing sasuke, he failed, and sasuke hadnt even used his most powerful jutsus. the thousands of shinobis that uro put him up against. uro himself and his body stealing jutsu, taking over his body. all the level two cursed sealed huys surrounding the huge guy wiht the cursed seal. scaring suigetsu and the curse seal dude. beating itachi's tsukiymo and surviving against the amateras, beating sai's jutsus. even yamamoto cudnt handle him sasuke is very uber currently. not to mention the pre chuunin feats against, naruto and 1 tails. Sasuke wasn't exactly beating Deidara either. Both were low on chakra, and Sasuke would have died if not for being able to summon Manda and get away from the attack. Not to mention his lightning element beat Deidara's earth so he had a big advantage because Deidara couldn't use a lot of his jutsu.

Orochimaru was half dead, and Itachi was already weakened. Circumstances. And the Sound 4 were the strongest of the Cursed Seal Ninja and they were beat by some of the weakest or at least stalled by some of the weakest in Konoha. Beating a bunch of the cursed seal people and some no name ninja isn't really a big feat at all. And he dodged the Amaterasu...not such a big deal when you dodge it. As for Naruto loosing before Time Skip...Sasuke trying to kill Naruto, Naruto trying to bring Sasuke back alive. Yea it's a lot easier to go for a kill than a knock out without killing somebody.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
Yep. They all did.



Not necessarily. At that point Orichimaru had proven to be much stronger then both of them. So their options were:

A) Fight and definetly die.

or

B) Give up the scrolls and possibly die. Or stall for time.

B is obviously the more logical decision. Anything is more logical then "Rush in headfirst and head on and feel the furze of my fist!!11111!!!!!" tactic that Naruto ALWAYS uses.

I don't even see why this is still going on. As far as tactics and overall good sense is concerned Sasuke had is it in the bag. Naruto is quite frankly an idiot. Post TS not as much but pre-TS definitely. The only thing Naruto has going for him is good instincts and a crap load of chakra at his disposal. I never said Naruto was smart. Jumping into Haku's Ice Mirrors not exactly bright. Keeping after Sasuke even though he knows he went willingly not really bright. Spamming Shadow Clones not the best tactic. Yea I know Naruto is a simpleton when it comes to fighting and tactics. That doesn't make Sasuke's decision against Orochimaru the smartest thing just because he assumed Orochimaru would leave them along after he got the scroll after he's already tried to kill them once and after he seen the look in his eyes. He freaked out, he got himself into a panic, and did the first thing that made sense to him without considering any other options. He didn't even ask if they'd live once the scroll was handed over he was just going to do it.

And naruto's decision to rush forward and attack was so much smarter? It nearly got him killed.

When did I ever say Naruto did anything smart? I've said plenty of time Sasuke is smarter than Naruto. Sasuke never even thought of other possibilites though and it was because he was freaked out. If he had kept a level head, which I understand why he didn't after being nearly killed by Orochimaru and paralyzed by fear he had to stab himself to move, but he may have been able to come up with some better plan then give him the scroll and get him away. Like maybe think there may be more than just the scroll he wants.

So... at this point you're just nitpicking?

Sasuke should have made a better plan then to just hand over the scrolls and hope for the best. It was foolish of him to think it'd be that easy when dealing with a killer like Orichimaru.

Are we all happy now?

sometimes the heart serves you better than the brain. its mystical luck. but naruto has it. he may not be smart, but he can see things in people that others cant, anf find hope and light and the will to persevere in situatios that others can not. i prefer him to sasuke.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
So... at this point you're just nitpicking?

Sasuke should have made a better plan then to just hand over the scrolls and hope for the best. It was foolish of him to think it'd be that easy when dealing with a killer like Orichimaru.

Are we all happy now? I just don't think that part is the best tp bring up to show he can be a good Hokage just because he chose to give up the scroll.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
sometimes the heart serves you better than the brain. its mystical luck. but naruto has it. he may not be smart, but he can see things in people that others cant, anf find hope and light and the will to persevere in situatios that others can not. i prefer him to sasuke.

And that is why he would make a bad polition. Being a fool and making dumb decisions 80% of the time and doing the right thing due to dumbluck 20% of the time is not an acceptable ratio for a leader of a country. Yes Bush does it. But he's not a good example of a good leader..

Originally posted by Kento
When did I ever say Naruto did anything smart? I've said plenty of time Sasuke is smarter than Naruto. Sasuke never even thought of other possibilites though and it was because he was freaked out. If he had kept a level head, which I understand why he didn't after being nearly killed by Orochimaru and paralyzed by fear he had to stab himself to move, but he may have been able to come up with some better plan then give him the scroll and get him away. Like maybe think there may be more than just the scroll he wants.
Oh yeah? Just what SHOULD he have done? Fighting would have got him killed, giving up the scroll could have but at least he had the smarts to know when he was beaten. Naruto chose a plan that had absolutely NO chance of working, at least Sasuke's had a possibility.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Oh yeah? Just what SHOULD he have done? Fighting would have got him killed, giving up the scroll could have but at least he had the smarts to know when he was beaten. Naruto chose a plan that had absolutely NO chance of working, at least Sasuke's had a possibility. Yea a possibility of death also. The scroll was a fifty-fifty deal. He would take it and leave or take it and still kill them. Sasuke only thought about the one-side not both sides of giving him the scroll. He could have did exactly what he did after Naruto was beaten. Fight. It was a much better choice in the situation. Either way would lead to death if Orochimaru wanted it to. Probably a good 80% of the ninja in there would probably have tried to kill them also even if the scroll was given anyways. Just because a person is a Genin doesn't make them less likely to kill somebody.

Okay, so Sasuke fights. And he dies. He had no chance of winning. He knew that there was no way fighting would help. Giving the scroll was fifty-fifty like you said. 50%>0%. I'm not sure how you could possibly call fighting a "much better choice" given that you admit that Sasuke's plan had a chance of working. Naruto's plan? No chance at all.

Sasuke's plan had a 50-50 chance or working on somebody not Orochimaru. All I'm really saying now is that Sasuke didn't consider all the possibilities in that instance and I think that instance against Orochimaru isn't the best to judge his talent.

Who says he didn't consider the possibilities. He could tell it was 50-50 and knew that half is better then no chance.

I think the point is moot...almost.

This is the Sasuke-Itachi thread.

Naruto is more mature, now, than he was before. He is learning to control his anger and repress the Kyuubi. Naruto is also much better of a tactician than he was before. He was able to break through that one guys defenses and destroy two hearts at once. Kakashi thought that that was the shit. Remember?

Like I said before, Sasuke would be a great Hokage...if he could tear himself away from cutting himself.

@Kandy - When Naruto said that there was no guarantee they would be let go Sasuke got the surprised look on his face and also when Orochimaru says Naruto was correct. Doesn't seem like he thought of the possibility that Oro would kill them anyway and just thought if he gave the scroll up Oro would leave.

Yea I think pretty much everybody agrees Sasuke has the makings of a good Hokage. I think the dispute really went from who would be a better Hokage Naruto or Sasuke.

nah, naruto would own as the hokage, he would lead every mission himself...thus reinforcing the trust in him and moral of konoha.

on his council he will have konahamaru as his apprentice, shikamaru as his battle strategist, and the hyuuga's as his security force.

I don't think it would be wise for the Hokage to go off on missions though lol.

Originally posted by Kento
I don't think it would be wise for the Hokage to go off on missions though lol.

Yes, Starfleet Regulations give us the perfect reason why. (The Captain is not supposed to go on away missions in Star Trek.)

sure, tell your boss(who happens to be naruto) to stay while the other fight, like that will happen. when he becomes hokage, every mission will have naruto in it.

Fighting and completing missions that are probably most of the time pointless compared to Hokage, and only need one person isn't exactly smart. If he did then his enemies would know that would be the perfect time to attack because the Hokage is gone, and Hokage is suppose to be the strongest in the village. Naruto would have more important things to do anyway that is one of the reasons I think he needs to just mature a little bit more because as he is now paper work and all that wouldn't really work for him. Not that it works for Tsunade either usually.

naruto....paperwork.....
he's more of a hands on type of guy.

And Tsunade is more the gambling type yet she's always doing paper work instead. Naruto wouldn't be much different. Unless Gaara and the Sand needed help. You can't be Hokage and be running off doing pointless stuff. Plus how would the people react to their Hokage leaving all the time lol.

Oh yeah I also think Sasuke could sit through a lot more paperwork and do it more efficiently.

Originally posted by Kento
...and Hokage is suppose to be the strongest in the village.


Nine. (pun intended, bitches.)

The Hokage/kage is supposed to be the best equipped to be the Kage of his/her respective village. It includes various abilities...not just combat.

In Gaara's case, he IS the strongest. Tsunade is not the strongest.

Usually they are around the strongest though, if not the very top.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nine. (pun intended, bitches.)

The Hokage/kage is supposed to be the best equipped to be the Kage of his/her respective village. It includes various abilities...not just combat.

In Gaara's case, he IS the strongest. Tsunade is not the strongest. Tsunade is the strongest under her. Jiraiya may be stronger but he's not really part of the village much. She also has some of the best chakra control which helps her use bigger attacks without using up as much chakra as others would.


@Kandy - Yea I do agree Sasuke would probably handle the paper work part better. It's the caring, and inspiring and making people think he's there for them that I have trouble seeing in Sasuke. Like I said what Sasuke lacks Naruto has and vice versa. Sasuke would be a smarter leader while Naruto would be a more caring leader. So they both have their certain aspects it's just more opinion on which you think is the better aspect.

Originally posted by Kento
Tsunade is the strongest under her. Jiraiya may be stronger but he's not really part of the village much. She also has some of the best chakra control which helps her use bigger attacks without using up as much chakra as others would.

No she is not. I wouldn't even give her the "strongest" on brute strength either.

I would say that she is probably the best medical ninja in the world, though.

Originally posted by Kento
@Kandy - Yea I do agree Sasuke would probably handle the paper work part better. It's the caring, and inspiring and making people think he's there for them that I have trouble seeing in Sasuke. Like I said what Sasuke lacks Naruto has and vice versa. Sasuke would be a smarter leader while Naruto would be a more caring leader. So they both have their certain aspects it's just more opinion on which you think is the better aspect.

I agree. Well put.

She's part of the Legendary Three Ninja who are considered the strongest under Hokage. She might be the weakest of them but that's still higher than anybody. They wanted Jiraiya to rule because he was so powerful and Tsunade isn't that far behind. I think Tsunade is probably one of the slowest people though if she can amp her strength so much I don't see why she couldn't amp her speed the same way like Butterfly Chouji did. After seeing what Sakura can do I wouldn't put it past that Tsunade is also the strongest physically since she's better at it than Sakura. There really isn't anything to suggest Tsunade doesn't have the biggest chakra reserve barring Naruto. I do think there are people with better fighting skills and that are a whole lot smarter than her in the village though.

Originally posted by Kento
@Kandy - Yea I do agree Sasuke would probably handle the paper work part better. It's the caring, and inspiring and making people think he's there for them that I have trouble seeing in Sasuke. Like I said what Sasuke lacks Naruto has and vice versa. Sasuke would be a smarter leader while Naruto would be a more caring leader. So they both have their certain aspects it's just more opinion on which you think is the better aspect.
Well that would be true, but like I said earlier it's not just Sasuke's intelligence but also his ability to make decisions under stress and his utilitarian way of thinking. Also this is an entirely different debate but he seems like the better Shinobi at the moment as well.

But I have to say, guys like the 3rd and 4th hokage who are caring AND geniuses seem to be severally lacking.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But I have to say, guys like the 3rd and 4th hokage who are caring AND geniuses seem to be severally lacking.

I don't follow you on that last part there. What do you mean?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well that would be true, but like I said earlier it's not just Sasuke's intelligence but also his ability to make decisions under stress and his utilitarian way of thinking. Also this is an entirely different debate but he seems like the better Shinobi at the moment as well.

But I have to say, guys like the 3rd and 4th hokage who are caring AND geniuses seem to be severally lacking. That's why I said Sasuke has the skills and not Naruto.

True but I guess it doesn't really take a either to be Hokage. Jiraiya certainly wasn't either and Tsunade can only be considered a genius in Medical Ninjutsu.

So basically all Naruto has going for him is his heartwarming nature and pep talk? You can't elect a Hokage for being a good motivational speaker.

He's also one of the most powerful in the village. There is nothing Jiraiya has over him except skill and Naruto has his inspiring nature in it's place. But his spamming of shadow clones gets him places sometimes. He's fooled a few people with it.

So basically Naruto would be the "George W. Bush" of the kage's... he motivated people and then he would have no idea how to do anything.

Doesn't Hokage have people to help advise him anyway? And he's got a few of the smartest people to put on his council.

And unlike Bush he wouldn't start a pointless war or lie to people.

just wait till naruto learns the fourth's tag teleport technique, coupled with shadow clones and all carrying rasengans, un untouchable naruto army.

he will surpass the fourth.

Somehow I doubt Naruto is going to become the Yellow Flash part 2.

your right, he will be better

I was going with he's not going to be nearly as skilled or feared though no doubt more powerful.

remember, naruto's shadowclone greatly reduces the time frame to sharpen any skill he has to learn. if they do another time skip when things cool down(most likely this will happen) naruto will show some insane skill and his legend will grow around konoha.

Yea sure with shadow clone he can learn jutsu faster than most..Still doesn't make him that skilled. He's by far one of the least skilled in Konoha. He's got tricks up his sleeve sure every once in a while but it's mostly just spam shadow clones until he can hit with Rasengan unless he's using Kyuubi. I don't see that changing much.

since the first time skip, naruto's attitude changed making him more normal compared to the other rookie nine. heck, pre-timeskip he defeated kiba, neji, and upstaged sasuke several times.
like you said he has a miraculous way of getting stronger quickly and i read that naruto is a genius in his own way.