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There seems to be some discussion to if Obi Wan should have won. Should've he? I don't think so but I want your opinion. I made it a post so I could see the results.

Originally posted by skywalker833
There seems to be some discussion to if Obi Wan should have won. Should've he? I don't think so but I want your opinion. I made it a post so I could see the results.

he killed kids and lost his cool.
he got what he deserved

he couldnt calm down and focus his lightsaber swings,
during the whole duel he was basically throwing a temper tantrum with his lightsaber while obi wan stayed focused.
granted obi wan was getting exhausted,
but when you duel with anakin's mindset it becomes easier to make a mistake.
which he did and thats why he lost.

Obi Wan was a way better swordsman, not as strong in the force though. Obi Wan would win with difficulty.

Originally posted by skywalker833
Obi Wan was a way better swordsman, not as strong in the force though. Obi Wan would win with difficulty.

Obi wan fanboy

And your point is?

Originally posted by skywalker833
And your point is?

youre not being objective

I said that Anakin was more powerful in the force, and obi wan is a better swordsman. So it should be pretty equal. I think obi wan will win because he has a bit more experience.

Originally posted by skywalker833
I said that Anakin was more powerful in the force, and obi wan is a better swordsman. So it should be pretty equal. I think obi wan will win because he has a bit more experience.

what did i just tell you about experience?

i think Anakin would lose 8 out of 10 to Obi. Obi fought from the position of advantage the entire fight, giving ground, just like Soresu dictates. Goading Anakin, Almost killing him in the hallway, almost leaving him to die on the Girder or whatever it was. Obi-Wan just knows anakin to well to lose to him. His style is a perfect counter for Anakin's rage. Soresu is at its best against many strikes at once, using the other person's own energy against them with minimal effort to wear them down. Eventually anakin, being immature, in this fight, will always make the mistake. Name one mistake Obi-wan made in his fight against anakin, one overcalculation. He was in complete control.

Experience helps. OK! That is why Obi wan got better as the movies went along. If experience didnt help, than obi wan would be a wimp in episode III. OK?

if experience doesn't matter, 10 year old anakin is the be-all and end-all of force combat, he had the most strength, and potential. It took experience to turn that potential into skill.

Exactly.

Though this would be a tough fight, obi would win.

Originally posted by skywalker833
Exactly.

experience helps but should NEVER be the SOLE factor in why a duelist wins.
you cant just say he wins cause of expiriecne, give more substance in your answer

I never said that is the only reason he wins. He is a master of soresu, an unbreakable defense. Anakin is stronger in the force. Obi's experience and his speed are the tiebreakers.

Originally posted by skywalker833
I never said that is the only reason he wins. He is a master of soresu, an unbreakable defense. Anakin is stronger in the force. Obi's experience and his speed are the tiebreakers.

ok as long as you mentioned something else other than experience then youre ok.

but what about anakin having more stamina?
does that come into play?

I've never heard that before. Please explain.

Originally posted by skywalker833
I've never heard that before. Please explain.

(panting and breathing hard) "i have failed you anakin, i have failed you"
(showing no sign of fatigue) "i should have known the jedi were plotting to take over!"

toward the end of thier rots duel, kenobi was near worn out but anakin just kept comming

The idea that Kenobi is faster than Skywalker is baseless. Where is the proof?

If he wasn't quicker, how would he be able to block anything 20 blows or less per second!?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
(panting and breathing hard) "i have failed you anakin, i have failed you"
(showing no sign of fatigue) "i should have known the jedi were plotting to take over!"

toward the end of thier rots duel, kenobi was near worn out but anakin just kept comming

Obi-Wan was not breathing hard. Did this happen in the book?

No, it happened in ROTS. You are in serious need to re-watch the duel. He was breathing hard. Anakin was breathing calmly and slowly. Anakin looked like he had just taken a stroll in the park on a breezy 70 degree day. Kenobi looked like he had just ran a mile race in 85 degree weather + sun. Anakin was also driving Kenobi back the entire length of the light. Kenobi's just lucky he had somewhere to back up to!


Lucas also stated that had the duel continued without Kenobi gaining the high ground, Anakin would have won.


Anakin is stronger than Kenobi. He took out Dooku when Kenobi could not, when they eached faced 1 Magnaguard on the Invisible Hand, Anakin took his out much more quickly.


"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger."
―Mace Windu


"Powerful Jedi, was he. Powerful Jedi."
―Yoda



"This is the end for you, my master."
- Anakin Skywalker (to Obi-Wan)

Anakin would most likely screw up in spectacular fashion.

I have to go with Kenobi.

Kenobi even hung with him when they tried to push each other with the Force, so it is not like Anakin could pull a Dooku on him.

Anakin is just too mentally weak to beat his Master.

Anakin only ever made that one mistake in ROTS. Every other time we see him in ROTS he doesn't make stupid mistakes like that. So chances are he wouldn't make that mistake again.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Anakin only ever made that one mistake in ROTS. Every other time we see him in ROTS he doesn't make stupid mistakes like that. So chances are he wouldn't make that mistake again.

He would probably make a different one.

One thing about Anakin that stands out is the amount he gets hit with a Saber - certainly as Vader.

Against a cool cat like Kenobi he is bound to lose it.

Kenobi knows all of the buttons that he can push to make Anakin take his mind off the game, and he would use them if need be.

This is my opinion.

Originally posted by Light_Sith
He would probably make a different one.

One thing about Anakin that stands out is the amount he gets hit with a Saber - certainly as Vader.

Against a cool cat like Kenobi he is bound to lose it.

Kenobi knows all of the buttons that he can push to make Anakin take his mind off the game, and he would use them if need be.

This is my opinion.

1. He only gets him on one occasion with a saber in ROTS, so it doesn't matter how often he gets hit with a saber after ROTS, since this thread is talking about ROTS Anakin.

2. Yeah, just like Grievous, Dooku, Maul, Jango, Durge and Ventress lost their minds against a "cool cat" like Kenobi?

3. Would he? Funny, then, that he didn't "push" any of Anakin's "buttons" when they dueled in ROTS, then, isn't it?

4. Yes, it is your opinion, but this is a forum where we state our opinions, and then other people who disagree with those opinions debate. If you don't want to debate, don't post, or when you post, say something like "Kenobi wins, but I don't want to debate" which pretty much makes your opinion invalid, since you're not willing to back it up.

Very well.

Beyond me how an opinion on Science Fantasy can be "invalid", but if that is how you operate here it is better for me to read posts.

3. Would he? Funny, then, that he didn't "push" any of Anakin's "buttons" when they dueled in ROTS, then, isn't it?


He did. "It's over Anakin, I have the high ground."
"You underestimate my power!!!" *ANAKIN PWNED* "I HATE YOU!!!" and so on.

Obi-Wan obviously said something to anakin that made anakin make a terrible tactical mistake. His rage at Kenobi, what gave him his strength, was exactly what Obi-Wan used against him. I once again contend that Obi-Wan was easily in control of their dual from the beginning. He chose the ground they fought on from beginning to end, Anakin was obviously attacking, and Obi-Wan was obviously okay with retreating, so right until Obi-Wan took Anakin a part, who was accomplishing what he was trying to accomplish? Obi-Wan for continuing to live. Anakin's offensive style, with which he was trying to destroy Kenobi, failed miserably against Kenobi's Soresu.

"Don't try it."

Kenobi did NOT wish to cut Anakin up like that. "It's over Anakin, I have the high ground." was not Kenobi pushing Anakin's buttons, it was him telling Anakin it was over, and to give up. He was being sincere, not trying to get Anakin to do something stupid. Although Anakin had turned against him, Kenobi still had feelings for Anakin and would preferred not to kill him if possible.

When does Lucas say Anakin would have won if the fight kept going?

I agree, I'm just curious.

Originally posted by darthsith19
"Don't try it."

Kenobi did NOT wish to cut Anakin up like that. "It's over Anakin, I have the high ground." was not Kenobi pushing Anakin's buttons, it was him telling Anakin it was over, and to give up. He was being sincere, not trying to get Anakin to do something stupid. Although Anakin had turned against him, Kenobi still had feelings for Anakin and would preferred not to kill him if possible.

at the biginning of the duel, "I will do what I must"

Obi-Wan certainly did not want to kill Anakin, but if he needed to, he would. And he did. Obi-Wan won because, as truejedi said, he was controlling the duel. By retreating, he was choosing the ground, waiting for an opening. Obi-Wan did not win because of luck, but because of skill and smarts. This is what makes a good jedi.

Originally posted by skywalker833
at the biginning of the duel, "I will do what I must"

Obi-Wan certainly did not want to kill Anakin, but if he needed to, he would. And he did. Obi-Wan won because, as truejedi said, he was controlling the duel. By retreating, he was choosing the ground, waiting for an opening. Obi-Wan did not win because of luck, but because of skill and smarts. This is what makes a good jedi.
Yes, if he needed to, he would, but he still wasn't "tricking him" or "pushing his buttons" when he said "Don't try it."


No, Anakin was controlling the duel. He was pushing Kenobi back the entire time. "he chose the ground they faught on from beginning to end". So he CHOSE for them to end up in the lava river? He CHOSE from them to walka cross the tight-rope (cable)? No, it was Anakin who hit the control that made them end up in the lava. And was Obi-Wan "in control of the duel" when he almost got choked to death by Anakin, and when he ended up getting Force Pushed into a control panel?

Originally posted by darthsith19


No, Anakin was controlling the duel. He was pushing Kenobi back the entire time. "he chose the ground they faught on from beginning to end". So he CHOSE for them to end up in the lava river? He CHOSE from them to walka cross the tight-rope (cable)? No, it was Anakin who hit the control that made them end up in the lava. And was Obi-Wan "in control of the duel" when he almost got choked to death by Anakin, and when he ended up getting Force Pushed into a control panel?

He didn't choose the lava, expressly, obi-wan had been on the planet for something like 60 seconds. He didn't know where the corridor was retreating down lead, but he didn't have to retreat down that corridor either, he chose to. Retreating is what he did. (he beat sidious that way) lost to maul, and dooku twice when he went on the offensive. (and anakin didn't know where that corridor lead, or even what the control he sliced with his lightsaber did, there was no time for that, he had barely finished killing the Seperatists, and making his report to Sidious when Padme arrived)
Anakin obviously had some measure of control while choking Obi-wan (which by the way, is that seen on film, or just the novelization?) But for the majority of it, if you watch, Anakin's effort in the fight is to kill Obi-Wan, In fact, anakin started the attack. Obi-wan successfully defends blow after blow, and retreats, looking for an opening. That's how he fights grievous onscreen.

And to your final point, At the exact same time that Obi got pushed into a control panel, Anakin got thrown across the room. There is no way you can give Anakin the advantage in that exchange.


Here is the quote from ROTS by stover: Pg 397: "In every exchange, Obi-Wan gave ground. It was his way. And he knew that to strike Anakin down would burn his own heart to ash."

On Page 398, anakin does slam obi-wan into a wall, then moves forward to kill him. immediately. Obi-Wan, by his own abilities, is able to escape anakin, disarm him, and has a chance that both Obi-Wan AND anakin acknowledge would have killed anakin.

"You hesitate, ANakin said, "THe flaw of compassion-- It's not compassion, Obi-Wan said sadly, "It's reverence for life. Even yours. It's respect for the man you were. He sighed. It's regret for the man you should have been."


And on how they got outside: Page 401: "....He slid Anakin's following thrust through the wall on the opposite side, guiding both blades again up and over his head in a circular sweep so that he could use the power of Anakin's next chop to drive himself backward through the wall, outside into the smoke and the falling cinders. Anakin followed, constantly attacking; Obi-Wan again gave ground, retreating along a narrow balcony high above the the black-sand shoreline of a lake of fire. Mustafar hummed with death behind his back, only a moment away, somewhere out there among the rivers of molten rock. OBI-WAN LET ANAKIN DRIVE HIM TOWARD IT. IT WAS A PLACE, HE DECIDED, THEY SHOULD REACH TOGETHER."


I hope that at least clears up why i feel about the fight as i do.

Huh. Good argument.

Indeed, good use of the text.

just to clarify, my post should say obi-wan beat grievious that way, not sidious.
The pictures seem to give anakin at least, a martial arts advantage, but it should be pointed out that getting kicked has never hurt anyone in any battle ever, in the history of the entire star wars universe.
The same with facial expressions, Sidious has all the wrong expressions on his face right before disarming, and defeating yoda, and Obi-Wan also gets really beat up before killing grievous.

As for the level of fatigue, i'm not denying that Anakin has better stamina than Obi-Wan, my point is, the two are obviously next to equally matched. I believe this is the longest dual in the entire star wars saga. (am i right? not sure) I believe Anakin will always be aggressive to the point of making a fatal error before obi-wan does, no matter how many times the dual is fought.

You notice during the push sequence, in which you said that Anakin was halfway across the room while Obi-Wan was just getting up: Who hit the table first? Anakin hit the table, and a full second later Obi-Wan hit his. So anakin had that extra second to get up and jump across the room. Obi-wan got up in exactly the same amount of time anakin did. Now you could use the physics argument to say that proves Obi-Wan flew further, but really, in force explosions, as seen with Sidious and Yoda, there is really no control over who gets hit hardest.

as for another reason Obi-Wan looks so drained, and Anakin doesn't: Obi-Wan is being emotionally drained with this fight. (i don't have the novel with me, i'll add those quotes later, ) but it says something to the affect that with each blow, Obi-Wan was dying inside, or something like that. Notice the last picture: Obi-Wan doesn't look weak, he looks like a dude that has had his heart ripped out. Anakin looks all "i'm going to kill you mutha******" Obi-Wan asks anakin to stop over and over again during the fight, and anakin keeps coming on.


A final reason for the discrepency in facial expressions: simply, Obi-Wan has a beard. His face is going to look more haggard when he is sweaty. That's just simple fact. Not to mention his complexion is different than anakin's.. but that is just getting down into the nitty gritty.

Ya know dude, the whole "spam the thread with pictures and theories no one's going to read" was cool when Janus did it, it was acceptable when you did it the first time, but now it's starting to get redundant.. and it's killing my 56 K. For the love of god, plulz just hotlink to the images, don't directly display them here.

Actually, i just thought of one more: They are standing over Lava. its mustafar... Who has been standing on top of the lava longer? Obi-Wan had at that point where you showed them each standing on their respective droids. He has been closer to heat that makes metal go molten for longer than anakin had been, so he is going to show more fatigue. That kind of heat causes fatigue, the mere act of standing up draining the human body. mebbe that's why anakin couldn't jump as high as he wanted too in the end.

There was absolutely no reason to post videos and stills because unlike the fight between Yoda and Sidious, this one is much more clear cut. I realize you think you have the ability to debate and that's admirable but you really don't. Anakin's force reserves are incredible, however there's no reason to assume had the fight gone on, Anakin would have eventually tired him out. As Faunus has pointed out, Obiwan possessed the patience, force mastery, and overall defense with Soresu to defeat his counterpart. The longer the fight went, the more arrogant and careless Anakin became.

Originally posted by skywalker833
If he wasn't quicker, how would he be able to block anything 20 blows or less per second!?

Being the most proficient master of Soresu, Obi-Wan is adept in a massive amount of defensive techniques. There is no quote saying that "he blocked them all", he might have evaded, dodged, ducked, and only stopped a few. Likewise, there is no indicator that Anakin is slower. He's in better shape and possesses a greater connection to the Force that would logically allow him to enhance his physical attributes on a greater plane.

I honestly think Grievous attacking Obi-Wan with 20 hits per second has been completely blown out of proportion.

1. He was wielding four lightsaber at once, and if we were to assume that he was wielding all four of them in absolute concert with each other (which the passage leaves open to the possibility), that's five strikes per second, per blade. Give the average human two extra arms, four lightsabers, and enhanced coordination, and he'd likely be able to replicate the very same feat.

2. Even if he had achieved the feat with just one blade, it's still a virtually weightless blade at the end of the day, and with the kinds of speed that Jedi are shown to be able to move at, I fail to see how even that - in relation to the setting - would have been all that impressive.

I do believe it was twenty strikes per second, Nebaris, but I'll find the exact passage and provide it verbatim tonight.

No need, here's the exact passage:

So now, facing the tornado of annihilating energy that is Grievous's attack, Obi-Wan simply is who he is.

The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twelve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, an unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life. Not one touched him.

After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters.

Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks-sixteen per second, eighteen-until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack.

What's interesting is that when Grievous' APS did reach 20, Obi-Wan's defence was described as "overloaded," and he was forced to go on the attack.

I don't believe gthey hit at different times. The camera just switches from one to the other.

They went flying at the exact same time and about the same distance. Anakin landing one second earlier makes really no sense.



He never asked him to stop. After the discussion before the fight, he and ANakin exchange words only briefly right before the end of the fight.
Not once did he ask Anakin to stop in any of those lines of dialog.



Please be quiet troll. Obi-Wan's style is to defend and wear out the enemy yet the only signs of anyone being worn out is Obi-Wan himself.

Originally posted by truejedi
Actually, i just thought of one more: They are standing over Lava. its mustafar... Who has been standing on top of the lava longer? Obi-Wan had at that point where you showed them each standing on their respective droids. He has been closer to heat that makes metal go molten for longer than anakin had been, so he is going to show more fatigue. That kind of heat causes fatigue, the mere act of standing up draining the human body. mebbe that's why anakin couldn't jump as high as he wanted too in the end.

The heat is certaily a factor.

This coming from someone who constantly hides who he is after he got banned? Man, EOD is making you dumber than you were during your tenure on KMC. Stop embarassing yourself..

And nothing indicates Anakin getting closer to killing Obiwan as time progressed. He got most of the kicks in but he was becoming careless.

Blah blah blah. Anakin was choking and beating around Obi-Wan all over the place. Whether it was the Force push out of the hallway leaving Obi-Wan's arms wide open and his body ready for attack or Anakin kicking Obi-Wan away before marching forward nonchalantly, Obi-Wan had nothing in that fight.
The fact Anakin can repeatedly, in the middle of lightsaber duels, not only meet his former master's blade but also accurately begin to kick him around is a testament to how much in command Anakin was.

Yet again, Obiwan spent the fight defending himself and there is NO indication of Anakin breaching Obiwan's defenses.

Ah yes. Obi-Wan's legendary defense. The one that beat Grievous' 16-strikes per second.
Nevermind this never happened in the movie and according to Canon, should be thrown out.

Well, that's nice you know what SHOULD be thrown out, but the fact remains that Obiwan's defenses were never breached in saber combat alone. While Anakin is definitely a better duelist than Obiwan by ROTS, Obiwan is still the smarter fighter.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Ah yes. Obi-Wan's legendary defense. The one that beat Grievous' 16-strikes per second.
Nevermind this never happened in the movie and according to Canon, should be thrown out.

Out of curiosity, how is it not shown in the movie?

Kay. i concede on the speed of Grievous' strikes.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Kay. i concede on the speed of Grievous' strikes.

No problem.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Blah blah blah. Anakin was choking and beating around Obi-Wan all over the place. Whether it was the Force push out of the hallway leaving Obi-Wan's arms wide open and his body ready for attack or Anakin kicking Obi-Wan away before marching forward nonchalantly, Obi-Wan had nothing in that fight.
The fact Anakin can repeatedly, in the middle of lightsaber duels, not only meet his former master's blade but also accurately begin to kick him around is a testament to how much in command Anakin was.

I gotta say: this one hurts your credibility, at least in my eyes. Blah blah blah is never a good reply in any discussion. just so you know.

That aside: you've added nothing to your original picture argument (which was really good by the way) When it says in the novel that Obi-Wan gave ground on purpose in every exchange, and that he intentionally retreated out over the lava, it goes perfectly with your post. 6 saber strikes followed by a kick is an exchange. I reiterate that NO ONE EVER has been injured by a kick in the star wars universe. (cept mebbe D2 when the droid kicks him.. but i think that's different) So regardless of Anakin landing the kicks, Obi-Wan was doing exactly what Obi-wan wanted to do, according to the novel, and that is not contradicted at all by the movie. (your interpretation of the movie might contradict it, but the facts of the movie, the kicking and the retreating, can coincide with the novel version., and the novel, the second highest form of canon, says obi-wan did exactly what he wanted to when he gave ground and retreated. Anything else in the novelisation, including the further dialogue between Obi and Anakin that you refused to admit as evidence, falls perfectly within the realm of canon as well, because that fight gets cut away from several times for Yoda's fight. If you only want to use the movies as evidence, you are in the wrong forum for that.

That's a respectable and agreeable post. I really don't care enough about either Obi-Wan or Anakin to argue this. I just wanted to give my two cents on it and you are definitely more informed on this topic than I am.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
That's a respectable and agreeable post. I really don't care enough about either Obi-Wan or Anakin to argue this. I just wanted to give my two cents on it and you are definitely more informed on this topic than I am.


eh, i just got lucky, and happened to reread that part of the novel right before this thread went up, so i was remembering that anakin didn't sound as good in the fight as he looked on the screen.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Blah blah blah. Anakin was choking and beating around Obi-Wan all over the place. Whether it was the Force push out of the hallway leaving Obi-Wan's arms wide open
what are you talking about. Anakin didnnt force push him, he shoved him!

Originally posted by truejedi
I reiterate that NO ONE EVER has been injured by a kick in the star wars universe.
Actually, obi wans kick that made anakin fall down looked like it hurt

Originally posted by skywalker833
Obi Wan was a way better swordsman, not as strong in the force though. Obi Wan would win with difficulty.

They were actually roughly equal with both lightsabers and Force.

Seriously, seriously, Anakin would have really won that duel. He beat Dooku when Kenobi couldn't.

The only reason he really lost was because Lucas needed him to make his dramatic change to Darth Vader.

Had that particular part of the plot not been used, say, If RotS had not been a prequel to the OT and the OT didn't exist, Anakin would have overcome Obi-Wan and killed him.

This is kind of obvious, I guess.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
They were actually roughly equal with both lightsabers and Force.

Seriously, seriously, Anakin would have really won that duel. He beat Dooku when Kenobi couldn't.

The only reason he really lost was because Lucas needed him to make his dramatic change to Darth Vader.

Had that particular part of the plot not been used, say, If RotS had not been a prequel to the OT and the OT didn't exist, Anakin would have overcome Obi-Wan and killed him.

This is kind of obvious, I guess.

thats kind of a cop-out don't you think? thats like saying that luke would have beaten Vader on bespin, BUT lucas needed to make a third movie, or that the rancor would have killed luke, but lucas needed luke alive. You can't say something happened in the movie, (only to move along the plot) but wouldnt' happen if it wasn't for the movies. The movies ARE our source. Heck, anakin WOULD have been killed by sebulba in the pod race if Lucas hadn't wanted him alive.

Originally posted by truejedi
thats kind of a cop-out don't you think? thats like saying that luke would have beaten Vader on bespin, BUT lucas needed to make a third movie, or that the rancor would have killed luke, but lucas needed luke alive. You can't say something happened in the movie, (only to move along the plot) but wouldnt' happen if it wasn't for the movies. The movies ARE our source. Heck, anakin WOULD have been killed by sebulba in the pod race if Lucas hadn't wanted him alive.


True, but unlike Luke battling Vader on Bespin, Anakin definantly stood a chance against Kenobi, and given the fact that he was just as good a swordsman, If not better (Dooku) and was actually more powerful with the Force, had the OT not existed, he would have just completely tapped into his true Dark side power and basicly would have went through him like a buzzsaw.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
True, but unlike Luke battling Vader on Bespin, Anakin definantly stood a chance against Kenobi, and given the fact that he was just as good a swordsman, If not better (Dooku) and was actually more powerful with the Force, had the OT not existed, he would have just completely tapped into his true Dark side power and basicly would have went through him like a buzzsaw.

there is actually no evidence that anakin had at this time recieved any sith training into actually tap into that dark side correctly, i mean, he was angry, but he never had any control over it.. its kinda funny to me how completely he falls though. he goes from really upset over cutting off mace's hand in a morally grey area. (should mace kill the senator without letting him stand trial) to 'yes master, i'll go kill bunches of kids for you right away" in the space of one or two sentences.

Heh, true.

I think he was resigned to his fate at that point though, or had started to slide so far into the Dark side that he didn't care.

To be honest I just get the feeling that since he was "The Chosen One" of prophecy and the golden child of The Force, that he would be able to tap into his true potential in that fight and then smoke the hell out of Kenobi.

He basicly does that in the video game anyway. Heh.

And the video game was an avenue of possibility.

You cant just say that if the OT trilogy didn't exist, than Anakin would have pwned obi wan. George Lucas meant for the movies to be this way, and besides, good always prevails!

And when obi 1 said "Don't try it", he probably meant it. If Obi 1 was not sad by anakins fall to the dark side, the fight would have been shorter, with obi wan on top, though it would still be a struggle.
Anakin may be on a higher level of swordsman than obi1, but obi wan is smart and finds a weakness just to use it against them. THis is why he would win.

its just kinda of the "he taught him everything he knew" its hard to beat the person who trained you really. its possible, but it doesn't happen a lot, if that person is dedicated too, because any advances you make, they learn as you make them. But, there is no way they've taught you everything they know, life experience dictates that has to be true. (mebbe anakin needed to teach obi how to get laid though...)

Very true. This is exactly what happened in their fight. Obi Wan knew anakins every move, of course so did anakin.
Random: New Clone Wars TV show looks pretty cool...

Obi Wan was holding back the whole fight, not wanting to kill anakin, not letting the force flow through him. In the end he did though, and he won.

Unsupported. Obi-Wan flew to Mustafar with only one purpose in his mind: killing Darth Vader. It's true that, firstly, he tried to turn him back, but when he realized he would not be able to do so, his mission became clear.

"If you're not my ally... then you're my enemy!"
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must."

-

We have already established that Obi wan would do what he must! But he didn't want to.

"Obi-Wan knew there was, in the end, only one answer for attachment...
He let it go."

-Revenge of the Sith, pg. 435

This is when he decided to do the unexpected, jump and take the high ground. This shows he was holding back.

Also, Obi wan is a smarter fighter. Like truejedi has said before, he was choosing the ground they fought on the whole time, maybe he didn't know where that was, but it was his choice. He also held his own when they each force pushed eachother, anakin may be stronger in the force, but he hasn't reached the potential where he can fully use it. Obi Wan has had more experience, therefore able to fully use the force to his ability. Obi-Wan is the unrivaled master of soresu like none before him, and has an impenetrable defense, Anakin never broke his defense unless it was a little kick or something.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Seriously, seriously, Anakin would have really won that duel. He beat Dooku when Kenobi couldn't.


Dooku's orders were to kill obi wan, and let anakin capture him. Haven't you read the book?

Originally posted by skywalker833
Dooku's orders were to kill obi wan, and let anakin capture him. Haven't you read the book?

And in the book it says this when Anakin is fighting Dooku(prior to dooku saying i sense great fear in you) :

Yeah, he used his anger to beat dooku. And just because he beat dooku and obi1 didn't, doesn't mean obi can't beat anakin.

Originally posted by skywalker833
Yeah, he used his anger to beat dooku. And just because he beat dooku and obi1 didn't, doesn't mean obi can't beat anakin.

No offense, but you completely missed my point. My point is that even though Anakin was holding back at this point, he still had the upperhand on Dooku which moots the point of Dooku intending to let himself be captured yet still drive Anakin even closer to the darkside and the novel would make it clear that Dooku had no chance as he would soon be fighting for his life like never before. As the novel says at different points later

I actually did understand your point. I said that the only reason Anakin was beating him is he was using his anger. I still saw your point. its not like i'm just gonna say, "Ok, I understand your point" cuz that would be
(wierd)

i don't think obi-wan was stronger, or even more powerful than anakin. I think anakin could defeat enemies that obi-wan couldn't defeat. However, i think in THEIR duels, anakin will lose to obi-wan. Obi-wan was the master, he taught anakin everything. He controlled their duel on Mustafar(by quotes i posted earlier in the thread, and i stand by as the most conclusive insight into their mindsets in that fight) , and he won, and i believe, circumstances repeated, with the ROTS anakin, since at that point, he didn't know anything Obi-wan hadn't taught him, Anakin couldn't beat Obi-wan. he might be stronger, but that doesn't automatically make him the winner. (look at Luke vs. the Rancor as proof of that.)

wise words

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