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- Necromancer with full skill-tree, top level, perfect AI and top-gear (Chosen by debator). Game mechanics disabled (Such as 95% block rate, incapability of jumping and handicap movement), but game-skills touched with lore and common sense included. His resistances is instead of percent converted into just plain resistance to all damage. Game attributes still applies, only taken up with common sense and not actual "numbers", whereas 1000 = Perfect and 15 = Very terrible.
Gimped mana and mana regenerate.
No Firegolem abuse, no Boneprison spam and may not use Meteor.

- Kratos is not yet God of War and only has the gear from before his deathmatch with Ares. Does not have the box of Pandora.

- Siegfried is Siegfried.

- Ganon without the plot immortality (Weapons of light/triforce immortality), his ability to destroy the soul/spirit is also removed. He is limited to only summon a hand-few minions and he can die, just like he is defeated in every game and this time without the requirement of plot device. This time, he wont return.

- Yoshimitsu is Yoshimitsu.

- Hayabusa is not allowed any of the dragon blades.


- The Setting is a large cemetary with 50 corpses.

Necromancer

He will get Trang-Oul's Avatar and litteraly eat them alive

Considering you pretty much cut the legs off Ganon, Kratos, and Ryu, Necro.

So without Ganon's immortality and soul attack, he is nothing?

You forget, he limited his minions, the Necro is literally a one man army, able to summon hordes of skeleton warriors, mages, and a golem.

Also, that would be like me saying,"A Necro is nothing without his minions".

If the character can't beat the other, why cripple the stronger one?

The Necromancer is a lot of things without his minions. He would win this fight without them.

I believe he removed the dragon blades because people go on about how it is world busting. He limited Ganon's durability because it is a durability beatable by plot-devices. He probably limited the minions because Ganon is supposed to fight and not his army with unknown limit.

Necromancer probably just spams a shitload of curses in the beginning and wins.

Note how all opponents are melee I think Nozdormu wants the Necromancer to win

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
The Necromancer is a lot of things without his minions. He would win this fight without them.

I believe he removed the dragon blades because people go on about how it is world busting. He limited Ganon's durability because it is a durability beatable by plot-devices. He probably limited the minions because Ganon is supposed to fight and not his army with unknown limit. 1. Against Ganon or GoW2 Kratos, he wouldn't win with them.

2. They aren't world busting, they beat a world buster. And that was the True Dragon Blade. He limited it because the Necro could not do shit to get around it, and would be pwned. So Necro gets hordes of minions, but Ganon can't?

Anyway, who cares, Kratos turns him to stone.

Or Ganon drives through the weak ass minions and takes his head off.

1. I believe Ganon is completely chanceless. God Kratos would perhaps win with a little luck though.

2. I think he limited it because the extent of Ryu's power with it is very much an unknown.

3. Kratos would have to be close to turn him into stone. Which he would never get a chance to be.

4. I am sure you must have missed it, but I said that he would not need any minions to win. The necromancer can be without both golem and skeletons and still win this fight.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
1. I believe Ganon is completely chanceless. God Kratos would perhaps win with a little luck though.

2. I think he limited it because the extent of Ryu's power with it is very much an unknown.

3. Kratos would have to be close to turn him into stone. Which he would never get a chance to be.

4. I am sure you must have missed it, but I said that he would not need any minions to win. The necromancer can be without both golem and skeletons and still win this fight. 1. I believe Ganon solos. God Kratos would literally just have to trip to win the fight.

2. It's just a really good blade that hurts enemies alot, is unbreakable, and is more effective against beings of darkness...that's it.

3. Okay, he pegs him with a bunch of holy Lightning bolts, which is faster than anything the Necro has.

4. And your opinion does not equal fact. I say Ganon solos.

1. How and no. Ganon would never solo a complete Necromancer. Kratos tripping would even if he landed on the Necromancer not finish him, not that he would ever get anywhere near. The Necromancer is far beyond Kratos in speed and can teleport.

2. Not how stories are told around KMC.

3. How fast exactly? Because a top rate FCR Necromancer teleports several times per second.

4. That is your opinion and it is as little fact as mine. Like I asked in -How?-

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
1. How and no. Ganon would never solo a complete Necromancer. Kratos tripping would even if he landed on the Necromancer not finish him, not that he would ever get anywhere near. The Necromancer is far beyond Kratos in speed and can teleport.

2. Not how stories are told around KMC.

3. How fast exactly? Because a top rate FCR Necromancer teleports several times per second.

4. That is your opinion and it is as little fact as mine. Like I asked in -How?- 1. Easy, he would use his superior speed, strength, durability, magical skill, swordskill, experience, and power. The Pally was a more suitable opponent for Ganon, the Necro is nothing, Ganon is what the Necro wants to be when he grows up. God Kratos could just stand there and watch the Necro try to kill him, until he gets bored and blows him up with a fireball.

2. Well, they lied.

3. ...It's a lightning bolt...

4. See 1.

1. Speed: Like he would ever HIT
Strength: Like he would ever HIT
Durability: Like he would ever HIT
Magical Skill: Like what? What puts Ganon so far beyond the Necromancer?
Swordskill: The Necromancer will not even engage close combat. How would this help Ganon?
Power: Power is strength, speed and magical skills combined. Neither will do Ganon good against the Necromancer.

As for the rest, riiiight. Now, this is not God Kratos, so lets not go into that.

2. I do not like that character anyway.

3. So is the Sorceress and he is avoiding that one. Even if he is not, his bone armor absorbs it. No harm done. The same bone armor that is renewable.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
1. Speed: Like he would ever HIT
Strength: Like he would ever HIT
Durability: Like he would ever HIT
Magical Skill: Like what? What puts Ganon so far beyond the Necromancer?
Swordskill: The Necromancer will not even engage close combat. How would this help Ganon?
Power: Power is strength, speed and magical skills combined. Neither will do Ganon good against the Necromancer.

As for the rest, riiiight. Now, this is not God Kratos, so lets not go into that.

2. I do not like that character anyway.

3. So is the Sorceress and he is avoiding that one. Even if he is not, his bone armor absorbs it. No harm done. The same bone armor that is renewable. 1. Speed: Copout. Ganon can tele btw.
Strength: Copout.
Durability: Copout.
Magic Skill: More magic feats, greater magical showings, more versatile, MORE POWERFUL CURSES, binding spells, offensive spells, can augment physical powers, and magic is limitless.
Swordskill: You are right, Ganon can engage the Necro and he can do nothing about it.
Power: Copout.

Right, because Noz crippled him. Maybe I should make a limbless necromancer thread vs. Dante from DMC...

2. Also, why can't he use the Dragon Sword? That is literally just a really sharp blade, that's it.

3. The Sorceress lightning bolts are clearly not as fast as lightning, saying they are is ludicrous.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
superior speed
Decrepify.

Weaken.

Amplify Damage, and Life Tap.

Against a fully trained and maxed out Necromancer, I don't think so.

Dark-Jaxx does not know much about the necromancer. You will have to be more specific, DarkC

Obviously he does not know much about the sorceress either.

Originally posted by DarkC
Decrepify.

Weaken.

Amplify Damage, and Life Tap.

Against a fully trained and maxed out Necromancer, I don't think so. 1. How much slower does it make them, I forgot.

2. And Ganon will still be stronger.

3. Still will be more durable.

4. I do, he has more versatility and power with it.

Ganon could just take the air, and bombard him from their, could wipe out many of his minions with an Earthquake punch, he can bury the Necro under rubble, he can turn into his beast form in TP and just teleport around the area and rampage running through all the minions and the Necro.

1. 85%
2. Blind
3. But not durable enough
4. Mor versaility is not the key to victory. The necromancer can beat Ganon with only four spells against his whole spellbook.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
1. 85%
2. Blind
3. But not durable enough
4. Mor versaility is not the key to victory. The necromancer can beat Ganon with only four spells against his whole spellbook. 1. Alright, that will be a problem, but Ganon can still turn intangible to dodge all blows.

2. Blind what? If you mean blind Ganon, won't work, Ganon has awareness beyond a mortal, as shown in OoT. He has planetary awareness, able to view anything on the planet.

3. The Necro isn't durable enough to take one punch from Ganon, go figure.

4. Ganon can beat him with one move.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. How much slower does it make them, I forgot.

2. And Ganon will still be stronger.

3. Still will be more durable.

4. I do, he has more versatility and power with it.

Ganon could just take the air, and bombard him from their, could wipe out many of his minions with an Earthquake punch, he can bury the Necro under rubble, he can turn into his beast form in TP and just teleport around the area and rampage running through all the minions and the Necro.
Lore wise it slows them down to a crawl.

It's a continual drain of strength, unless Ganon knows the appropriate counter curse he's just going to continue on chasing the Necromancer (who by the way can cast illusions of himself that fool even experienced magical users) until he collapses.

Durability is essentially a moot factor; it's not like the Necromancer is going to get hit much, if at all. Even if he did, quite powerful enchantments in the cloak of their trade protect him, not to mention the armor that he gets in this fight. (Zayl was only momentarily stunned by a huge haymaker from a Wendigo that would have knocked a normal man's head clean off.)

I didn't even bring up the "Iron Maiden" spell. Necromancer could just stand still and take the hits happily, take no damage whatsoever and whatever Ganon does harms himself instead. It was cast on a Barbarian who managed to kill an iron-made gargoyle by just standing still.

All you said there is completely moot if the Necromancer casts confuse or blind on him, or uses a few magical decoys.

as the expert on bonemancers, i say necro soloes with OR without minions...iron maiden, blind, decripfy, + armour = win..the army makes no real difference..

The Necromancer would solo even if there was two of each

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Alright, that will be a problem, but Ganon can still turn intangible to dodge all blows.

2. Blind what? If you mean blind Ganon, won't work, Ganon has awareness beyond a mortal, as shown in OoT. He has planetary awareness, able to view anything on the planet.

3. The Necro isn't durable enough to take one punch from Ganon, go figure.

4. Ganon can beat him with one move.

1. The Necromancer can attack naked souls and spirits, so turning intangible will not help him.

2. Weaken. He will never break trough the bone shield and even less the indestructable armor that the Necromancer is currently equiped with.

3. Yes he is.

4. No he cant.



Tell me. Exactly how would Ganon beat someone that can teleport more swiftly, has a perfect AI and is as good as physically and elementally invulnerable for as long as he remains alert, which he will since it is a perfect AI.

Who by the way has GIMPED mana and mana regeneration. I do not think you know the Necromancer class well enough. Either that, or you just do not want to see Ganon lose as one in the crowd against an un-named silly Diablo character.

The whole "Diablo characters are crap" deal is very popular thinking. I do not think many truelly realise how powerful these characters are.

Originally posted by DarkC
Lore wise it slows them down to a crawl.

It's a continual drain of strength, unless Ganon knows the appropriate counter curse he's just going to continue on chasing the Necromancer (who by the way can cast illusions of himself that fool even experienced magical users) until he collapses.

Durability is essentially a moot factor; it's not like the Necromancer is going to get hit much, if at all. Even if he did, quite powerful enchantments in the cloak of their trade protect him, not to mention the armor that he gets in this fight. (Zayl was only momentarily stunned by a huge haymaker from a Wendigo that would have knocked a normal man's head clean off.)

I didn't even bring up the "Iron Maiden" spell. Necromancer could just stand still and take the hits happily, take no damage whatsoever and whatever Ganon does harms himself instead. It was cast on a Barbarian who managed to kill an iron-made gargoyle by just standing still.

All you said there is completely moot if the Necromancer casts confuse or blind on him, or uses a few magical decoys. 1. Any way to counter this curse lore-wise?

2. He can amp his strength with the Triforce of Power if need be, and the Triforce of Power>>>Necro's curse.

3. Despite the fact that Ganon is faster and can also teleport? Knock a head off? Ganon disintegrates people with punches, go figure.

4. I didn't bring up the option of freezing him solid either.

5. Confuse and blind won't work on a man who has awareness beyond a mortal.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
1. The Necromancer can attack naked souls and spirits, so turning intangible will not help him.

2. Weaken. He will never break trough the bone shield and even less the indestructable armor that the Necromancer is currently equiped with.

3. Yes he is.

4. No he cant.



Tell me. Exactly how would Ganon beat someone that can teleport more swiftly, has a perfect AI and is as good as physically and elementally invulnerable for as long as he remains alert, which he will since it is a perfect AI.

Who by the way has GIMPED mana and mana regeneration. I do not think you know the Necromancer class well enough. Either that, or you just do not want to see Ganon lose as one in the crowd against an un-named silly Diablo character.

The whole "Diablo characters are crap" deal is very popular thinking. I do not think many truelly realise how powerful these characters are. 1. And in that form Ganon can possess him.

2. So he can break through tons of castle that just fell on him, and disintegrate a Sage, but can't break through the Necro's Bone Shield or armor? Lol. Also, Ganon can fire blasts which go right through all armor or shields.

3. No he isn't, never shown that kinda durability.

4. Yeah, he really can.

5. Teleport more swiftly? Where do you get that? Ganon is a spam teleporter. Perfect AI is still only AI. The Necro is nowhere near Ganon physically, that is bullshit. Elementally invulnerable? No-Limit fallacy, he has never shown to have been hit by an elemental power like freezing a city over, and the ice was so cold only blue fire could melt it, and that was only certain, weaker parts of it.

6. Ganon has infinite mana, go figure.

7. Not as powerful as Ganon has shown to be.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Any way to counter this curse lore-wise?
Draw the appropriate counter symbol in mid air.

Moot point.

Unless it's dispelled/counter-spelled, even the Triforce is not going to save Ganon from exhaustion. Curses are special; they're in a field beyond ordinary magic. They drive deep into the victim's very core of being. No matter what the amount of power within someone they're still going to lose it and fast. When it was cast upon Zayl he collapsed in about a second and only was barely able to counterspell it.


Necromancers also can teleport in a moment's notice, as shown in the Moon of the Spider and the Kingdom of Shadow novels. And also, being fast isn't really going to help if the Necromancer can mask himself in illusion. Ganon's just going to be chasing shadows.

Also, necromancers can also put the image of someone's worst corporal fear into their head, to the point where even if one knew that it was only an illusion, it could not override their primal fear, and pure fear is one of the most base of emotions.

Yeah, and considering that a young Necromancer managed to escape a trap amplified by Diablo himself (which consisted of being "melded" into a rock wall) while nearly being crushed to death by said wall, I don't think being frozen solid is going to do that much for very long, or that it would affect him at all.

Wrong, it worked against someone that was entirely possessed by Diablo, and as we all know he's definitely not a man, nor a mortal.

Nice try.

When it was demonstrated in a novel that necromancers put wards and enchantments on their minds and bodies to prevent themselves from possession by any being.

Yeah, right.

If the armor has a Zod rune in it, then yes, it is technically completely indestructible. Both game and lore wise.

As for a bone wall or prison, you're missing the point; the magic is based on the victim's being, rather than an object. The bone wall is made of bones and magically enhanced as to possess the souls of previous victims of the person it is being cast upon. Power from beyond the grave is a completely unrestricted field of magic.


Tell me, how many people has Ganon killed before? Many? I thought so.

Oh, so mana-based protective bubbles are moot then.

I have a feeling you're making things up now. If it's a "blast" then it's a corporeal attack and so can be deflected by a mana shield. Unless it's a soul attack.

There's some basic rules that have to be followed.

If the necromancer has armor that contains a Zod rune, then yes, that could give him insane amounts of durability. And that's without the runes and protective symbols etched onto their cloaks.

Yeah, he punches through a wall seeing an image of the Necromancer standing there in his mind. Whoops!

There's your one move. See how ridiculous your argument is here?

http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/01/diablo_novel.jpg

Yes he has, he got hit by a trap laid by Diablo. It consisted of huge hands growing out of the wall, nearly squeezing the life from him, and then dragging him to a point into a cave wall where his physical shell was to be one with the rock that surrounded it. So to speak, he was turning into crystallised deposit and stone.

Zayl managed to escape without the use of his arms and legs, while utterly exhausted and unable to breathe.

Is this another one of those ridiculous "cross-world" fallacies?

What a bloody shambles of an argument that was.

Magic uses the body, not the other way around. You're defying one of the most basic fictional concepts of magic by saying someone has infinite mana.

No one has infinite mana. It's just been shown that Ganon has never ran out while you were fighting him, which suggests that he just has a lot of mana, not infinite.

Necromancer is powerful, not nearly as much as Ganon, but he does have more than enough tricks up his sleeve to turn the odds vastly to his favour.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. And in that form Ganon can possess him.
2. So he can break through tons of castle that just fell on him, and disintegrate a Sage, but can't break through the Necro's Bone Shield or armor? Lol. Also, Ganon can fire blasts which go right through all armor or shields.

3. No he isn't, never shown that kinda durability.

4. Yeah, he really can.

5. Teleport more swiftly? Where do you get that? Ganon is a spam teleporter. Perfect AI is still only AI. The Necro is nowhere near Ganon physically, that is bullshit. Elementally invulnerable? No-Limit fallacy, he has never shown to have been hit by an elemental power like freezing a city over, and the ice was so cold only blue fire could melt it, and that was only certain, weaker parts of it.

6. Ganon has infinite mana, go figure.

7. Not as powerful as Ganon has shown to be.

1. He would not get anywhere near the Necromancer, so this would be a futile attempt.

2. Right trough all armors and shields? Ever penetrated something said to be indestructable? Or penetrated something that absorb elemental damage, even remotely close to the strength of fire delivered from the pits of Hell? The sage that Ganon destroyed for all we know could be as fragile as a raw egg. Since we know NOTHING about the Sage, you can not use that Sage as proof of physical strength. The scraps from the castle may be impressive, but a barbarian can lift stone too. All Diablo characters would survive have a building fall over them. Differently from Ganon, they would all be quick enough to escape and not be hit at all.

3. The devil, the prime evil of the three, Satan himself and the physical muscles of the three primes punched him and the shield did not even begin to lose the strength. He can stand in Hellfire for a long period of time and does not feel a thing. Not even telekinetical blasts can harm a shielded Necromancer.

4. How? Not by punching, he will not possess because it is a soul attack and against the rules, the necromancer shield will absorb all attacks and the Necromancer is a more swift teleporter and can renew the shield that Ganon by the way has shown no capability of breaking.

5. The Necromancer is nowhere near Ganon physically, but I believe I said quite early that the Necromancer would never engage close-combat and Ganon would never get a chance to touch him.

6. Infinite mana, but no ability good enough to defeat the Necromancer so no matter his mana, it will do him no good.

Oh:

7. I guess you are right. Ganon has shown he gets beaten by a teenager while all the Necromancer has ever shown that is impressive is that he can defeat Satan.

I also say the necromancer wins.. I admit I shouldnt have made them all melee, so that was a misstake..

He'll decripfy or lower resistance and launch Bone Spirits + teleport..

Originally posted by DarkC
Draw the appropriate counter symbol in mid air.

Moot point.

Unless it's dispelled/counter-spelled, even the Triforce is not going to save Ganon from exhaustion. Curses are special; they're in a field beyond ordinary magic. They drive deep into the victim's very core of being. No matter what the amount of power within someone they're still going to lose it and fast. When it was cast upon Zayl he collapsed in about a second and only was barely able to counterspell it.


Necromancers also can teleport in a moment's notice, as shown in the Moon of the Spider and the Kingdom of Shadow novels. And also, being fast isn't really going to help if the Necromancer can mask himself in illusion. Ganon's just going to be chasing shadows.

Also, necromancers can also put the image of someone's worst corporal fear into their head, to the point where even if one knew that it was only an illusion, it could not override their primal fear, and pure fear is one of the most base of emotions.

Yeah, and considering that a young Necromancer managed to escape a trap amplified by Diablo himself (which consisted of being "melded" into a rock wall) while nearly being crushed to death by said wall, I don't think being frozen solid is going to do that much for very long, or that it would affect him at all.

Wrong, it worked against someone that was entirely possessed by Diablo, and as we all know he's definitely not a man, nor a mortal.

Nice try.

When it was demonstrated in a novel that necromancers put wards and enchantments on their minds and bodies to prevent themselves from possession by any being.

Yeah, right.

If the armor has a Zod rune in it, then yes, it is technically completely indestructible. Both game and lore wise.

As for a bone wall or prison, you're missing the point; the magic is based on the victim's being, rather than an object. The bone wall is made of bones and magically enhanced as to possess the souls of previous victims of the person it is being cast upon. Power from beyond the grave is a completely unrestricted field of magic.


Tell me, how many people has Ganon killed before? Many? I thought so.

Oh, so mana-based protective bubbles are moot then.

I have a feeling you're making things up now. If it's a "blast" then it's a corporeal attack and so can be deflected by a mana shield. Unless it's a soul attack.

There's some basic rules that have to be followed.

If the necromancer has armor that contains a Zod rune, then yes, that could give him insane amounts of durability. And that's without the runes and protective symbols etched onto their cloaks.

Yeah, he punches through a wall seeing an image of the Necromancer standing there in his mind. Whoops!

There's your one move. See how ridiculous your argument is here?

http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/01/diablo_novel.jpg

Yes he has, he got hit by a trap laid by Diablo. It consisted of huge hands growing out of the wall, nearly squeezing the life from him, and then dragging him to a point into a cave wall where his physical shell was to be one with the rock that surrounded it. So to speak, he was turning into crystallised deposit and stone.

Zayl managed to escape without the use of his arms and legs, while utterly exhausted and unable to breathe.

Is this another one of those ridiculous "cross-world" fallacies?

What a bloody shambles of an argument that was.

Magic uses the body, not the other way around. You're defying one of the most basic fictional concepts of magic by saying someone has infinite mana.

No one has infinite mana. It's just been shown that Ganon has never ran out while you were fighting him, which suggests that he just has a lot of mana, not infinite.

Necromancer is powerful, not nearly as much as Ganon, but he does have more than enough tricks up his sleeve to turn the odds vastly to his favour. 1. ..........I can't really comment that....who is the most powerful person it has shown to affect?

2. The Triforce is not some run-of-the-mill magic triangle, it is an ancient spiritual artifact of unlimited power(no I am not saying Ganon is omnipotent), he can use that unlimited power to amp his strength.

3. Ganon can cast something close to an illusion, as shown in OoT, Phantom Ganon's can mask themselves to appear to look like Ganon, he can summon a few with his appearance, the difference is, these things can also attack.

Ganon has shown awareness beyond mortals, and has never even hinted fear, his state of mind is Godlike(if that makes sense).

4. So being forced to be melded in a wall>freezing a city?

5. But has he SHOWN planetary awareness? And ever consider his awareness(if they are indeed beyond human) along with his power decrease while controlling a MORTAL shell?

6. Any being? Like what? Saying he can literally withstand any being is a no-limit fallacy, or can he stop the Phoenix Force from possessing him?

7. What is the strongest thing it has withstood. Ever withstood total disintegration? Didn't think so.

Yes, he has killed many, but thing is, if I am remembering correctly how the spell works, can Ganon not just teleport out?

8. No, it literally passes right through armor, even magical things like the Master Sword or Mirror Shield.

9. Won't work on Ganon's mind.

10. That's not what I meant. What makes you think his teleport is as fast as Ganon's?

11. A frickin Wallmaster can do that. Ganon can freeze whole cities. That>assimilating a being into a wall.

12. Not sure, care to explain what one is?

13. Ganon's powers are drawn from an infinite source, the Triforce of Power, all his powers are fueled by that, so yeah, he has infinite magic power, that little mana rule doesn't apply to all verses.

14. Oh, he has tricks to help him out, but not to save him from Ganon.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
1. He would not get anywhere near the Necromancer, so this would be a futile attempt.

2. Right trough all armors and shields? Ever penetrated something said to be indestructable? Or penetrated something that absorb elemental damage, even remotely close to the strength of fire delivered from the pits of Hell? The sage that Ganon destroyed for all we know could be as fragile as a raw egg. Since we know NOTHING about the Sage, you can not use that Sage as proof of physical strength. The scraps from the castle may be impressive, but a barbarian can lift stone too. All Diablo characters would survive have a building fall over them. Differently from Ganon, they would all be quick enough to escape and not be hit at all.

3. The devil, the prime evil of the three, Satan himself and the physical muscles of the three primes punched him and the shield did not even begin to lose the strength. He can stand in Hellfire for a long period of time and does not feel a thing. Not even telekinetical blasts can harm a shielded Necromancer.

4. How? Not by punching, he will not possess because it is a soul attack and against the rules, the necromancer shield will absorb all attacks and the Necromancer is a more swift teleporter and can renew the shield that Ganon by the way has shown no capability of breaking.

5. The Necromancer is nowhere near Ganon physically, but I believe I said quite early that the Necromancer would never engage close-combat and Ganon would never get a chance to touch him.

6. Infinite mana, but no ability good enough to defeat the Necromancer so no matter his mana, it will do him no good. 1. Sure he wouldn't, even if we must ignore logic and how simple it would be to get near the Necro(teleport).

2. Nope, it literally passes through them, eve the Master Sword, which also kills spirits btw. No, it means we must assume he has average physical endurance, and disintegrating a normal human is still more powerful than anything a Necro has done in terms of physical damage. Scraps? No, the majority of his castle, made of stone and steel, was on him. Lift stone? Ever lifted tons of rubble that was piled on him? Didn't think so. See, this is how I know you have never actually played the games and have no real clue what you are talking about, Ganon was in a near death state, he used the rest of his power to crumble the castle, and still had enough strength to leap out from the rubble.

3. You have not ONE feat to say Diablo is physically as powerful as Ganon, simply saying he is the Devil is not good enough. Stand in Hellfire? Ganon tanked Holy Fire/Light. TK blasts? Okay...and? Out of all those, that seems least impressive...

4. He has never shown to resist a disintegrating attack, possession is a soul attack? No it isn't, it is taking over a body, he takes over the Necro, makes him cut his own head off, game over(but according to DarkC, that won't work). Necro Shield absorb all attacks? Ganon will shatter it physically, freeze it solid and then shatter it, or he will just take the easy way out and grab the Necro's windpipe, crushing it. Necro a more swift teleporter? Lol, PROVE IT.

5. And you're wrong, go figure.

6. Copout. Again.

7. So we go by PIS now? Given their powers and stats, Link, even with his two weaknesses, shouldn't get ONE win over Ganon, and just because Diablo is Satan, that makes him stronger? Lol.

As it did not appear as obvious as expected, my was a joke ermm I just brought it up because Ganon has in fact lost against a teenager and the necromancer has defeated the devil. I never go by past accomplishments unless they prove feats when I debate.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. ..........I can't really comment that....who is the most powerful person it has shown to affect?

2. The Triforce is not some run-of-the-mill magic triangle, it is an ancient spiritual artifact of unlimited power(no I am not saying Ganon is omnipotent), he can use that unlimited power to amp his strength.

3. Ganon can cast something close to an illusion, as shown in OoT, Phantom Ganon's can mask themselves to appear to look like Ganon, he can summon a few with his appearance, the difference is, these things can also attack.

Ganon has shown awareness beyond mortals, and has never even hinted fear, his state of mind is Godlike(if that makes sense).

4. So being forced to be melded in a wall>freezing a city?

5. But has he SHOWN planetary awareness? And ever consider his awareness(if they are indeed beyond human) along with his power decrease while controlling a MORTAL shell?

6. Any being? Like what? Saying he can literally withstand any being is a no-limit fallacy, or can he stop the Phoenix Force from possessing him?

7. What is the strongest thing it has withstood. Ever withstood total disintegration? Didn't think so.

Yes, he has killed many, but thing is, if I am remembering correctly how the spell works, can Ganon not just teleport out?

8. No, it literally passes right through armor, even magical things like the Master Sword or Mirror Shield.

9. Won't work on Ganon's mind.

10. That's not what I meant. What makes you think his teleport is as fast as Ganon's?

11. A frickin Wallmaster can do that. Ganon can freeze whole cities. That>assimilating a being into a wall.

12. Not sure, care to explain what one is?

13. Ganon's powers are drawn from an infinite source, the Triforce of Power, all his powers are fueled by that, so yeah, he has infinite magic power, that little mana rule doesn't apply to all verses.

14. Oh, he has tricks to help him out, but not to save him from Ganon.

10. Show us Ganon's teleport please.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. ..........I can't really comment that....who is the most powerful person it has shown to affect?
Generally truly "powerful" people in the Diablo world don't attack using brute strength and can still function even while exhausted, so lore wise it wasn't used against any particularly powerful enemies. The only time it was used was on Zayl.

You’re saying that he is in possession of an artifact with “unlimited” power and yet is not “omnipotent”.

Do you realize how stupid that logic is? Omnipotence results from such a thing like unlimited power.

Simple, corporeal illusions are nothing to a necromancer. They detect which from which simply from the essence of their souls, or spirit.

Zayl managed to even bypass that and fool another necromancer much more experienced and powerful than he by stabbing a zombie in the back with his own dagger (which carries his 'aura') and then making it invisible. And even then the necromancer detected the presence/invisibility of another being.


Awareness is moot, when in comparison to a powerful emotion like the most base of fear. I've already said this. Everyone, no matter what, is afraid of something.

If he isn't secretly afraid of Link by now after all the righteous ass-kickings he's got from the fairy kid I'd be surprised.

Because you have great power does not mean you're not afraid of something. For example, a minion of one of the Seven Evils of Hell was in his right extremely powerful and he still panicked when a necromancer cast the image of his worst fear into his mind (an archangel), despite knowing better.


Yes, because his soul itself was actually being slowly absorbed into the wall and enslaved as to become a sentinel of sorts. If he had a weaker spirit his soul would have been absorbed instantly.

And he still escaped.

Yes, and because his power is channeled, not borrowed, the usage of a mortal shell wouldn't make a difference, the shell wouldn't last very long.

Like I said, magic uses the body.

It's not fallacy at all; it's a ward. Like, say...if you set up a ward so that demons cannot pass it, then they cannot pass it without time, severe effort and great power. Even then the person who set the ward would have to be unaware the entire time for it to work. Ganon could, but it would take him time and effort; and neither is practical in a field of battle.


Falling down a vertical air shaft into a crypt about a mile deep. They're two different things but they have the same amount of lethality.

Splattered into goop or being turned into ash, makes no real difference. The runes of Trag'Oul on his cloak protect him from both.

Anti-teleportation can be woven into the spell, as shown in Moon of the Spider. Salene attempted to teleport out, but she felt some kind of barrier in her mind that couldn't be removed.

If he's encased in a bone prison the only thing he can do is beat away at it until it collapses (vengeance > Triforce, there are some things that are beyond magic) or wait until the magic wears off.

Shields, even if enchanted, are still corporeal items. Completely magical barriers aren't.

Look, if you're going to argue at least provide reasoning instead of making ridiculous declarations without even bothering to explain why, let alone prove completely.

Where is the reasoning, that he would not be fooled by illusions cast by a necromancer? The proof? Sight is sight. Hearing is hearing. How does Ganon tell one illusion from another, or the real necromancer? He doesn’t.

You can say it as much as you like, without proper reasoning that statement is completely worthless.


Ganon seems to have two teleports, the "blink" teleport and the much slower "shadow" teleport(similar to Akuma's, from Street Fighter).

Blink is instantaneous. So is the necromancer's, but the necromancer just has a slightly faster start up time. They're not faster; they're about the same spell-wise. Ganon teleports in, necromancer teleports away. Or if it's a disguise, just counterattack.

You're missing the point entirely. I'm not talking about the power used to cast, only the effect.

Which do you think is more difficult, escaping from being frozen up, or escaping from stone hands leeching your soul while turning you into stone, while you can't breathe, barely think, can't use your hands or legs, and are utterly exhausted?

"Link can't be affected by Skill A or Effect B from Ganon because he has item A and enchantment B. Outside character does not possess item A or enchantment B so Ganon instantly wins, blah blah blah"

I thought Nozdormu set the rules up to ward you from doing it again, you were attempting that fallacy in the Paladin vs Ganon thread as well.

No, it's not a "little mana rule" and stop attempting to deny a basic integral rule of magic in fiction. You can deny it a million times for all I care, but your opinion does not change fact. I called your argument here a "bloody shambles" because it is so utterly wrong.

Magic uses the body. Even with the Triforce it doesn't constantly grant the user strength and replenishment, he has limits still. Ganon can continually spam magic and not be affected because the Triforce grants him more usage of magic, but by no means is it completely unrestricted or unlimited. Get what I am saying?

Saying something like that he is godlike and has unlimited power, etc, is simply a case of plot-induced stupidity. Of course realistically he is neither, seeing as how Link beat him.

Repeatedly, I might add.

Typical fanboy statement.

Unless you can provide me an appropriate counter for all those curses and tricks listed earlier (that doesn't consist of something like "Won't work on Ganon" then your arguments are invalid.

He'd probably get near an illusion, then probably go on a wild goose chase trying to find a necromancer that is:

-Hidden in invisibility
-Hidden in spirituality
-Not on the mortal plane (This means he can't be attacked, but can't make any attacks unless he departs the plane)
-Hidden among a crapload of golems disguised like him or mental illusions cast into Ganon's mind.

It’s like a remarkably difficult game of Where’s Waldo.

That's saying magic can't be countered with magic.

Seriously, what?

Yeah, and I'm sure "average physical endurance" includes:

-Getting his hand bitten off and still being able to fight ably.
-Sealing his hand back on with fire and magic.
-Lasting for ridiculous amounts of time without food.

You even said yourself in another thread that these are no mere humans, so I don't get why you're passing them off as "average" again.

Necromancers can easily summon elemental lightning (shown in novel), which has the same effect. They're basically wielders of Vizjerei magic that dabble with magic having to do with spirits and corpses and having some religion of their own accordingly. Otherwise, they're traditional sorcerers in their own right.

Once again, you need to inform yourself before forming judgments.

He has escaped from being crushed and assimilated into the wall and having his soul stolen/enslaved while almost dead.

I shouldn’t have to keep reminding you of this tale.

Great, another “he’s never been shown to” argument. They seem to breed faster than rabbits.

Ganon’s never been shown to turn a dog into a stick, does that mean it is not within his power to do so? What fallacy.

It’s taking control of the body, yes, but at the same time the victim’s soul must be put into limbo or repressed in order for it to work. So yes, it is technically a soul attack.

Considering out that Bone Shield is a maxed out skill, very likely.

Oh, we’re talking about corporeal shields. If it has a Zod rune in it, indestructible. Period.

If we’re talking about magical shields….what is he going to do, grab the magical barrier out of the air with his bare hands? It’s not corporeal.

“Oops, I crushed some stone replicate of the necromancer.”

Read above arguments again.

As far as I am concerned, they’re just invalid statements considering you have no proof or argument to back it up.

I find it odd how you keep demanding from me “has he done this” or “how much” and etc, yet have the audacity to make declarations without support on your own.

Explain. Why.

half the ppl on this team solo ok 1. are u kidding even b4 kratos got pandoras box just look at the things kratos has put the whooping on, i think krato's feats speak 4 themselves, 2. Sigfried pwned inferno the physical manifestation of a sword that can take out half an army in one swing 3. gannon he could at least stalemate him by himself 4. yoshi well it depends on if your talking sc yoshi or tekken yoshi 5. hayabusa still has doku's sword with life draining abilities and unlabored flawlessness as well as a bunch of other goodies. like i sed half the team solos 10/10

lol at the dragon Blade being a regular sword. Just the Regular Dragon sword in the current addition is stronger now. The True Dragon Blade is even more powerful now. Specially after Dragon Sword and the dragon stones embedded.

Originally posted by dat_boi
half the ppl on this team solo ok 1. are u kidding even b4 kratos got pandoras box just look at the things kratos has put the whooping on, i think krato's feats speak 4 themselves, 2. Sigfried pwned inferno the physical manifestation of a sword that can take out half an army in one swing 3. gannon he could at least stalemate him by himself 4. yoshi well it depends on if your talking sc yoshi or tekken yoshi 5. hayabusa still has doku's sword with life draining abilities and unlabored flawlessness as well as a bunch of other goodies. like i sed half the team solos 10/10

Dr. Clueless

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
Dr. Clueless omg i cant blieve i just got owned by the greatest rebuttal ever

............. sarcasm off

Originally posted by dat_boi
omg i cant blieve i just got owned by the greatest rebuttal ever

I know. Sucks to be you shrug

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
I know. Sucks to be you shrug only on days were i lose to u and this aint 1 of em

Then how do you plan for any one of these to even harm the Necromancer, you who are me so superior in debating? Since you obviously know so much about the Necromancer, these are the points I want you to counter:

- Iron Maiden
- Bone Prison
- Teleport (Swift)
- Decrepify
- Poison Nova
- Bone Spirit
- Bone Armor
- Indestructable Plate Armor
- 30 Skeleton Magi's spamming the five elements
- Firewall
- Bonewall
- Bone Spear
- Lower Resist


He by the way only needs four, perhaps three or maybe even just two to defeat the whole team.

- Iron Maiden
hayabusa neutralizes as with dokus sword he drains health so yeah as he loses health hed b gaining it at the same time also kratos has zeus lightinig bolts ranged attacc duh
- Bone Prison
hayabusa runs 2 fast 2 b caught by this in this yoshi can fly as far as the other 2 im sure theyll b fine
- Teleport (Swift)
if u run u die tired
- Decrepify
u got me
- Poison Nova
weak
- Bone Spirit
they get outran and dissapate by every1 here cept maybe sig
- Bone Armor
5 on 1 with the kind of damage these goons are gonna b dealing ur probably gonna run urself out of mana trying to keep this going
- 30 Skeleton Magi's spamming the five elements
kratos posiedons rages all of them to dust and then is reminded he could bring the army of hades into the fray for some undead fun of his own
- Firewall
could do damage
- Bonewall
yoshi flys over it hayabusa runs up the damn thing and comes down like bird shit on top of the little spellcasting bastard
- Bone Spear
dodged
- Lower Resist
got me again

team takes it although with that skill set and putting more thought in to it im not sure any solos this

The concept and lore behind bone spirits is that they pursue their target until they find it, if they don't then they continue to chase. Plus, game wise they're slow but lore wise they're quite swift.

Vengeance from beyond the grave is an extremely powerful magic, one beyond normal spells and enchantments.


Well, considering that the necromancer can confuse, fear, and blind, I severely doubt he's going to take that much hits.

Your point is moot. Whether through swords, or arrows or magic, whatever damage is "dealt" to the caster is returned to the attacker whereas the caster doesn't so much as feel a slight pain.

The damage dealt is tied into the attacker's own life force and spiritual essence, so whatever they attack, they feel.

Iron Maiden - The Necromancer will dodge the lighting bolts. Concerning Hayabusas sword, it will fail. He will take far more damage than he get healed. Unless the sword heals him for 1000% of his damage, because that is the amount that the curse returns. 1000% the amount of damage inflicted is returned upon the target.


Bone Prison - Runs too fast? It is instant and it is a targeting effect. It even traps a paladin in charge. I have seen the speed of Hayabusa and he will get caught.


Teleport - Good words, but a well equiped Necromancer has a hell lot of Stamina and even more Mana. This Necromancer is even gimped at mana.


Decrepify - It is a good spell.


Poison Nova - Weak how? A top level Poison kills arch demons from Hell in less seconds than you have fingers on your left hand If it was applied for minutes against the team, they wouldnt feel very well. At least not Siegfried, Kratos and Hayabusa. I dont remember if Yoshi was undead or not, but I'm pretty sure Ganon has quite the resistance against it.


Bone Spirit - Not outran thanks to Decrepify and Bone Prison. Sure, they will be able to dodge them, but one single flaw and they are screwed. Besides, the Necromancer may shoot it from close-range. He is after all the fastest teleporter in the gang.


Bone Armor - He will not let them attack him. The Bone Armor will shield him from the very few attacks these people will actually get in.


Skeleton Magi's - They are fodder, yes. Although they are the kind of fodder that grants the Necromancer the one little second he needs to catch any attackers on the skeletons off-guard.


Firewall - It sure is hot


Bonewall - Fly over, run upwards and whatnow they do. Whatever they do, it is valuable time that they are losing.


Bone Spear - Not at close range.


Lower Resist - Will grant the Necromancer a massive advantage.


No, no one will solo it. I do think they have a chance of winning, a slight, tiny chance. Unfortunatly Nozdormu made the Necromancer "Perfect AI" and that will be very tough to beat for any planetary level character.

I can't debate right now, but I do have one little favor to ask you DarkC...can you stop replying to my posts towards Diamond Kisses? I'm only one person, I don't want to answer an essays worth of posts.

Also why cant Ryu Hayabusa kill this Necromancer even with Iron Maiden. If they are both dead. Ryu will win. Just ressurect himself with Talismen of Rebirth. Since by your huge list of abilities and spells that everyone gets everything except the stuff you said they couldnt have. Its automatic.

Also can I get actual descriptions of this Necromancers abilities. A Canon site so i can read actual descriptions.

Also from which game. Ryu has gotten alot faster since Ninja gaiden Black. and has even more powerful abilities. Specially my favorte. The Art of the Piercing Void *Drools*

1.with hayabusa and yoshis speed kratos's lightning im saying a simple speedblitz or an incendiary shuriken would hit his ass b4 he even got 2 cast nething. shuriken assassination
2.y couldnt 2 ninjas a spartan godkiller the king of thieves and a guy who like i sed took out the physical manifestation of a sword that just a fragment of gave an empty suit of armor the power to rapestomp an army dodge a bone spear and an even slower spirit but this punk can dodge lightning and not just any lightning Zeus king of the freccin gods lightning
3.yoshi is powered by undead lifeforce his sword is more powerful in tekken as it would have collected more souls by that time but he himself its never been clear to me wether hes undead or not
4 . as for bone prison and wall u also seem to have forgotten hayabusa 4 1 if he runs up a wall the attacc power coming down is doubled 2has taken down much tougher bone constructs like idk a frekkin reanimated dinosaur thats as tall as as a football field is long and since id say kratos has greater strength feats so these 2 alone could pull the group out of any jam regarding dat
4. oh dont even bring up nething close range hell mid range even (kratos chain swords) thats were this lil bastard gets pwned
5. ur 1 second means nothing bcuz theres 4 other ppl charging the punk while kratos is disintegrating ur skeletons and then pulling a much stronger army from the god of the undead out of the same thin air he just blasted ur skeletons into
6.i stand on my words, this guy dies tired

Originally posted by Csdabest
Also why cant Ryu Hayabusa kill this Necromancer even with Iron Maiden. If they are both dead. Ryu will win. Just ressurect himself with Talismen of Rebirth. Since by your huge list of abilities and spells that everyone gets everything except the stuff you said they couldnt have. Its automatic.

Also can I get actual descriptions of this Necromancers abilities. A Canon site so i can read actual descriptions.

Also from which game. Ryu has gotten alot faster since Ninja gaiden Black. and has even more powerful abilities. Specially my favorte. The Art of the Piercing Void *Drools*
the only canon sites were you can see abilities are one where you see gameplay abilities..we are talking lore abilities as well (which are pretty much the same, just faster and stronger )..
but if you insist -
curses - http://www.diabloii.net/characters/necromancer/curses.shtml
poison/bone - http://www.diabloii.net/characters/necromancer/poisons.shtml
summoning - http://www.diabloii.net/characters/necromancer/summoning.shtml

Originally posted by dat_boi
1.with hayabusa and yoshis speed kratos's lightning im saying a simple speedblitz or an incendiary shuriken would hit his ass b4 he even got 2 cast nething. shuriken assassination necro has ultra fast tele, and his casts are instant..these guys, no matter how fast they are, will have great difficulty trying to simply touch him
Originally posted by dat_boi
2.y couldnt 2 ninjas a spartan godkiller the king of thieves and a guy who like i sed took out the physical manifestation of a sword that just a fragment of gave an empty suit of armor the power to rapestomp an army dodge a bone spear and an even slower spirit but this punk can dodge lightning and not just any lightning Zeus king of the freccin gods lightning1. his attacks are slow ingame, lore wise they are much faster
2. and? hows that gonna stop him from getting crippled or blinded?
Originally posted by dat_boi
3.yoshi is powered by undead lifeforce his sword is more powerful in tekken as it would have collected more souls by that time but he himself its never been clear to me wether hes undead or notnot that it matters, since the necro will kill him either way
Originally posted by dat_boi
4 . as for bone prison and wall u also seem to have forgotten hayabusa 4 1 if he runs up a wall the attacc power coming down is doubled 2has taken down much tougher bone constructs like idk a frekkin reanimated dinosaur thats as tall as as a football field is long and since id say kratos has greater strength feats so these 2 alone could pull the group out of any jam regarding datit wont matter, it will still SLOW them down.
Originally posted by dat_boi
4. oh dont even bring up nething close range hell mid range even (kratos chain swords) thats were this lil bastard gets pwnedno, kratos will get owned by iron maiden, while necro goes on to the next victim..
Originally posted by dat_boi
5. ur 1 second means nothing bcuz theres 4 other ppl charging the punk while kratos is disintegrating ur skeletons and then pulling a much stronger army from the god of the undead out of the same thin air he just blasted ur skeletons intoproves hades army is stronger than than the forces of a necro...oh wait, you cant
Originally posted by dat_boi
6.i stand on my words, this guy dies tired
oh really..
scenario
necro unleashes all of his powerfull curses, leaving his enemies blinded, crippled, extremely weak and vunerable to magic...while his army of bone mages pump them full of magic, necro spams whatever the hell he likes, and even if one of them manages to attack him, they will die (iron maiden), while the necro laughs at them..

please explain this lore to me. This term doesnt really sound familiar to me.

books
there are canon books about diablo, showing that the necro can
a. teleport
b. shoot really fast bone spirits (as aposed to the ultra slow version in the game)
c. etc

1.he can tele all over the place slow these guys down all day but wen the goon squad catches up with him hes not gonna b very happy now is he.
2.it dont matter what ur talking about lore ingame or real life lightning bolts, bone spear hmmm which 1 do u think is faster
3.no....no he wont
4.slowing the others down amping hayabusas attacc
5.kratos chain swords are like pure magic so no physical attacc no return damage again if hayabusa has dokus sword draining his ass as hes loosing health. neutralized. hell hayabusa even has ki blasts ganon has all types of magical goodies
6. so wut ur trying to say is that the god which rules over the very force behind necros magic doesnt have a stronger army than him riiiiiiiiiiiiiight i got 1 word 4 u.............fail
7.team ftw 4ever and always

1. once he slows them down, they're dead..they wont catch up with him cuz once they're crippled they will get owned...this covers 2-5 as well
6. hades in gow is pissweak compared to some of the other characters in videogaming..just becuase he's a "god" doesnt mean shit in the vs forum, especially since they're in different universe...just because hades is the god of death in gow doesnt mean his power will mean anything in say, the daiblo universe, where any mid level demon can raise the dead...the necro can just do it better..
7. so far you have present no proof to back up this claim..all you said is "that wont work cuz hes kratos!!!!1112121" and spouted meaningliess titles..you fail..

taking half the speed of a guy who can run vertically, run and jump across fighter jets all while thouroughly putting the beatdown on them, yoshi judging from his t5 ending runs like the damn flash (ok maybe an exaggeration but we all seen how yoshi was GETTIN IT! lol) kratos lil over average speed so yeah he gets slowed down same for sig ganon has tele so yeah its gonna help but its not a dealbraker
ur dismissing the fact that hades is a god bcuz mid level demons can use necromancy in diablo the army of hades spell portrays the undead souls as being way faster than a neco's summons
look here im not denying that this would b a good fight or that even some of the team would'nt die in the process of taking this guy out and im not saying that u dont have valid points as these guys dont have defenses against alot of necros magic specifically curses but 5 to 1 and looking at the shit these guys can do and have done im standin on it. team.

Originally posted by dat_boi
taking half the speed of a guy who can run vertically, run and jump across fighter jets all while thouroughly putting the beatdown on them, yoshi judging from his t5 ending runs like the damn flash (ok maybe an exaggeration but we all seen how yoshi was GETTIN IT! lol) kratos lil over average speed so yeah he gets slowed down same for sig ganon has tele so yeah its gonna help but its not a dealbraker
ur dismissing the fact that hades is a god bcuz mid level demons can use necromancy in diablo the army of hades spell portrays the undead souls as being way faster than a neco's summons
look here im not denying that this would b a good fight or that even some of the team would'nt die in the process of taking this guy out and im not saying that u dont have valid points as these guys dont have defenses against alot of necros magic specifically curses but 5 to 1 and looking at the shit these guys can do and have done im standin on it. team.

Instant Teleport, Perfect AI and Instant Cast. I have seen their speed. They will not hit the Necromancer, not even Kratos lighting will, since the Necromancer has dodged lighting before.

Originally posted by dat_boi
taking half the speed of a guy who can run vertically, run and jump across fighter jets all while thouroughly putting the beatdown on them, yoshi judging from his t5 ending runs like the damn flash (ok maybe an exaggeration but we all seen how yoshi was GETTIN IT! lol) kratos lil over average speed so yeah he gets slowed down same for sig ganon has tele so yeah its gonna help but its not a dealbraker
im guessing you havent played diablo2 lod all that well
decripify takes about 90%+ off their speed at the highest level, it slows diablo himself to a crawl, he can barely attack..
Originally posted by dat_boi ur dismissing the fact that hades is a god bcuz mid level demons can use necromancy in diablo the army of hades spell portrays the undead souls as being way faster than a neco's summons
hades is a god only in gow..he sure as hell wouldnt be in diablo2..and his army of hades, while fast, has nowhere near the durability and power that the necro's minions, who can take blast from diablo's red lightning hose (an attack that can kill the necro, or any player, in about 2 seconds), and dish damage back..
Originally posted by dat_boi look here im not denying that this would b a good fight or that even some of the team would'nt die in the process of taking this guy out and im not saying that u dont have valid points as these guys dont have defenses against alot of necros magic specifically curses but 5 to 1 and looking at the shit these guys can do and have done im standin on it. team.
so your saying that the team will win out of numbers, but you think they have no defense against his curses
btw you completely ignored my scenario, which imo is fairly accurate


ill make it real simple...how are they gonna kill the necro when:
a. they crippled and can hardly move
b. they cant see a thing
c. they are weakened to such an extent that even if they landed a hit on something, they wouldnt scratch it
d. they are extremely vunerable to magic, meaning that the bone mages are gonna rip them to shreds with elemental spells
e. they have bone spirits and bone spears flying at them, doing more magical damage..

face it, the team is screwed

yeah ive played diablo2 didnt really care 4 it but got through it, my bad 90% speed reduc. well 10% of the running power shown in yoshi and hayabusa is enuf to at least be able to run at a lil over average speeds
hades is a god only in gowconfused huh? u know there was a lil thing called GREEK MYTHOLOGY! on which gow is based and i really dont feel like going over over freshman year bs wit u to remind u the kind of stuff the gods did. i never said numbers gave them the win i said considering feats and numbers i think that team takes it i dont think necro could keep these spells going long enuf he might kill 1 or 2 possibly 3 guys in the process but these guys would run him out of mana and then once that happens he's done
i mean these guys are to tuff youve got kratos that can rip his opponents in half like a wet paper towel and overpower beings the size of a city blocc so god only knows exactly how strong this guy is so taking some of his strength doesnt reduce his blows to "scratch" status as far as being blind ryu could just smoke bomb the place up and see who fights better in the dark the like i said if kratos bombs the bone mages with posiedons rage then hes gonna b all by his lonely now i highly doubt the bone spears r gonna b hitting on target and as for bone spirits those things ll get out ran and dodged all day even at 10% speed. team.

When they are slowed, they will be hit by any of the abilities.. Bone Spirit may be slow, but keep in mind that they have to keep the spirits in mind too.. They have to constantly keep distance from them, and that means they wont have 100% focus on the Necromancer.. They will also have to dodge all the prisons and walls he put up, which reduces focus even more.. He'll also constantly attack them.. They will be the ones on the run, while the Necromancer will be the hunter..

Originally posted by Nozdormu
When they are slowed, they will be hit by any of the abilities.. Bone Spirit may be slow, but keep in mind that they have to keep the spirits in mind too.. They have to constantly keep distance from them, and that means they wont have 100% focus on the Necromancer.. They will also have to dodge all the prisons and walls he put up, which reduces focus even more.. He'll also constantly attack them.. They will be the ones on the run, while the Necromancer will be the hunter.. yeah like i sed till he runs out of mana oh and u forgot the smokebombs 2 but thats only in te case he blinds them

A top-geared Necromancer doesnt run out of mana.. Even if he did, the curses and teleport cost near to no mana at all.. It'll only take him a second to regenerate what mana required for any of his abilities if he ever runs out, which I doubt he will..

Originally posted by Nozdormu
A top-geared Necromancer doesnt run out of mana.. Even if he did, the curses and teleport cost near to no mana at all.. It'll only take him a second to regenerate what mana required for any of his abilities if he ever runs out, which I doubt he will.. and itll only take 1 sec for him 2 get ran through by 5 goons

No it wont.. He'll not be stupid enough to run out of mana on an open field.. He'll use terrain and his own walls and prisons of bone to his advantage.. Besides, he'll have Bone Armor active..

Originally posted by Nozdormu
No it wont.. He'll not be stupid enough to run out of mana on an open field.. He'll use terrain and his own walls and prisons of bone to his advantage.. Besides, he'll have Bone Armor active.. like i said walls are an advantage for hayabusa, yoshi can fly so wherever he runs 2 he'll get tracced down oh and in the othe scenario were he gets smoke bombed how do u spose he knows his surroundings well enuf 2 hide wen theres smoke cover you can hide every where and yet theres no where to hide the bone armor just prolongs the inevitable all five at once they launch his ass in the air and juggle him like a circus clown

The Necromancer dodges lighting, but not a smoke bomb? Highly unlikely.. Besides, Yoshimitsu doesnt have swift flight..

Originally posted by Nozdormu
The Necromancer dodges lighting, but not a smoke bomb? Highly unlikely.. Besides, Yoshimitsu doesnt have swift flight.. the point of he smoke bomb is not to hit the opponent but to provide cover 4 the user if he uses more than 1 he can cover the field wit smoke effectively evening the odds in the case necro blinds them and finding him only requires him getting high enuf to spot the necro the fact that his flight is slower actually helps give him time to perform thorough recon when he gets spotted he gets chased down mauled and juggledfearJumpy

Covering the field with smoke does not only dim the Necromancer's vision, but all the others as well. They will run into prisons of bone, into walls and perhaps even into firewalls. By doing this, since they are horribly slowed, the bone spirits will catch up and make impact, utterly destroying the targets.

Using the smoke will work more in the Necromancers benefit than against him, since he'll still be able to teleport and has his bone shield active.. The bone spirits follow their targets for as long as it takes, and they wont stop simply because of some clouds.. Neither will the Necromancer, who btw doesnt have to see where he is teleporting.. As long as he keeps teleporting, he keeps a distance..

Besides, the smoke does only cover a small area, not the whole land..

um no for 1 like sed they got yoshi doin recon so they got eyes were necro dont for 2 both ryu and yoshi r ninjas experienced in using smoke bombs yoshis got invis so its not like necro'd see him anyway 3. so wut hes gona tele all over the place not knowing where hes goin so he can get spotted riiiiiiiiiight 4. bone spirits do dissapate 5. bone armor is just gonna reduce damage which wont help when hes stucc in the air joining the mile high club via mid air rape tru a smoke bomb wont cover a large area but many smoke bombs yeah there gonna cover a wide area and hell with just 1 smoke bomb i can give u a scenario
hayabusa throws smoke bomb the whole team takes cover yoshi goes invis stalks the necro while kratos handles bone magi hayabusa rushes necro sig flanks ganon brings up da rear yoshi catches necro launches his ass and every1 takes turns on him like the girl who drank 2 much last saturday night

You can not honestly hope that Necromancer will just let Yoshimitsu fly of with him? A poison dagger would have Yoshimitsu die in an instant. Same with Siegfriend and Hayabusa. Kratos might last a little longer, just like Ganon.

In truth, I think he only needs to hit each one of them one time with Poison Dagger and he has won.

Originally posted by dat_boi
um no for 1 like sed they got yoshi doin recon so they got eyes were necro dont for 2 both ryu and yoshi r ninjas experienced in using smoke bombs yoshis got invis so its not like necro'd see him anyway 3. so wut hes gona tele all over the place not knowing where hes goin so he can get spotted riiiiiiiiiight 4. bone spirits do dissapate 5. bone armor is just gonna reduce damage which wont help when hes stucc in the air joining the mile high club via mid air rape tru a smoke bomb wont cover a large area but many smoke bombs yeah there gonna cover a wide area and hell with just 1 smoke bomb i can give u a scenario
hayabusa throws smoke bomb the whole team takes cover yoshi goes invis stalks the necro while kratos handles bone magi hayabusa rushes necro sig flanks ganon brings up da rear yoshi catches necro launches his ass and every1 takes turns on him like the girl who drank 2 much last saturday night

All said attacks against the necromancer fails, since they are first of all drowned in curses and secondly because he has instant, quick teleport. Even if they got a chance to punch him, he'd have teleported again before they would make the actual impact. Like they said earlier, the Necromancer teleports several times per second. They wont catch him and if they do, they'd be lucky toget one hit on him. He on the other hand doesnt need to know where they are. The Bone Spirits will do all the work.


Or he could stand still on top of the corpses on the cemetary and make poison explosion. That way, whoever goes near the Necromancer will die in seconds.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
You can not honestly hope that Necromancer will just let Yoshimitsu fly of with him? A poison dagger would have Yoshimitsu die in an instant. Same with Siegfriend and Hayabusa. Kratos might last a little longer, just like Ganon.

In truth, I think he only needs to hit each one of them one time with Poison Dagger and he has won. i never said fly of with him i said launch him something that al 5 of these guys can do and then juggle him which a juggle is some thing that again all these guys can do save ganon a juggle can last a long time with just 1 guy with 5 it can last till hes dead also now that i think about it t5 yoshi is more machine than anything so im not sure poison attaccs would work on him that well sigfried if hes using soulcalibur is effectively healing himself at a constant rate (i forgot about dat and here i thought he wouldnt b any help) hayabusa the speed demon of the team does not get hit as well as the fact that if he can survive spider ninjas spamming him with incendiary shurikens(as im sure every1 here who played ninja gaiden has felt the utter frustration of blowup) he can take a few of these kratos he obviously has the endurance 2 handle these ganon too but he has tele so he dont get hit by too many of theseb like i sed these guys r like the postman snow sleet rain....... bone walls these guys r gonna deliver

What prevents Necromancer from just teleporting out of the smoke?

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
What prevents Necromancer from just teleporting out of the smoke? nothing but if hes in the smoke he cant see his opponents if hes out of the smoke he still cant see his opponents either way the purpose of the smoke is fullfilled

No it is not. Bone Spirits sense the presence of others and the Necromancer can just go outside the smoke and spam spirits into it. He can also make corpses inside the smoke explode since he only needs to sense these and does not need to see them. Using that smoke as a cover is a bad idea. It will honestly give them no advantage at all. Not even a little.

in that case yoshi makes clones to distract the bone spirits and they charge out of the smoke

The clones are barely worth calling fodder

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
The clones are barely worth calling fodder being fodder is their sole purpose there only there as a distraction for bone spirits

Originally posted by dat_boi
in that case yoshi makes clones to distract the bone spirits and they charge out of the smoke
Moot point, the bone spirit would sense the presence of its true victim and not that of a soulless clone.

Originally posted by dat_boi
yeah ive played diablo2 didnt really care 4 it but got through it, my bad 90% speed reduc. well 10% of the running power shown in yoshi and hayabusa is enuf to at least be able to run at a lil over average speeds i said 90% +, meaning that, because of the necros armour (extra stat), that = 99%..and thats just gameplay, cuz when someone is crippled (as in avery bone crushed) in real life, that dont just walk around and attack slowly, they simply do not move at all..
Originally posted by dat_boi
hades is a god only in gowconfused huh? u know there was a lil thing called GREEK MYTHOLOGY! on which gow is based and i really dont feel like going over over freshman year bs wit u to remind u the kind of stuff the gods did. i never said numbers gave them the win i said considering feats and numbers i think that team takes it i dont think necro could keep these spells going long enuf he might kill 1 or 2 possibly 3 guys in the process but these guys would run him out of mana and then once that happens he's done
1. im am fully aware of greek mythology.
2. now you contradicting yourself
3. full powered necros dont run out of mana...they simply dont..its a fact..
Originally posted by dat_boi
i mean these guys are to tuff youve got kratos that can rip his opponents in half like a wet paper towel and overpower beings the size of a city blocc so god only knows exactly how strong this guy is so taking some of his strength doesnt reduce his blows to "scratch" status as far as being blind ryu could just smoke bomb the place up and see who fights better in the dark the like i said if kratos bombs the bone mages with posiedons rage then hes gonna b all by his lonely now i highly doubt the bone spears r gonna b hitting on target and as for bone spirits those things ll get out ran and dodged all day even at 10% speed. team.
1. i know how strong kratos is..the fact is that even though he will be very strong even with weaken, he wont get anywhere near the necro or his minions
2. as the other have said, the smoke bombs will actually help the necromancer, not hinder him
3. you dont get it do you - kratos, as well as the whole team, wont be doing shit, because they'll be -
a. too weak and crippled to move
b. will be pouned on by bone mages, and because lower resist is affecting them, they'll be extra affected..in fact, if any of the bone mages are frost mages they'll be frozen and unable to move at all, let alone struggle
c. they have bone spirits and bone spears hitting them from any/all directions, thanks to the necros teleport..
necro wins

oh for the record, bone mages can take hits from the magic of the prime evils (whos magic >>>>>>>>>>> kratos') and not die, so the posiedon's rage thing is moot..

Originally posted by DarkC
Moot point, the bone spirit would sense the presence of its true victim and not that of a soulless clone. 1. can u prove these clones dont have souls or dont have pieces of yoshis soul or use the power of yoshis soul. 2. wuts this "true victim" garbage get that out of here i aint never seen bone spirits have to differentiate between ninja clones so whos 2 say ur type of magic is more effective than mine. talkin bout some "tru victim" u gon find out who's the try victim wen he gets caught up by the goons

1. it worked with baal, why not someone far weaker?
2. thats probably coz youve never played up to baal, or any enemy who can clone themselves..the bone spirit can tell the difference between a baal clone and the real baal, so yea, it aint garbage

Originally posted by MadMel
1. it worked with baal, why not someone far weaker?
2. thats probably coz youve never played up to baal, or any enemy who can clone themselves..the bone spirit can tell the difference between a baal clone and the real baal, so yea, it aint garbage

Phail! Yoshi is a better cloner than Baal

Originally posted by MadMel
i said 90% +, meaning that, because of the necros armour (extra stat), that = 99%..and thats just gameplay, cuz when someone is crippled (as in avery bone crushed) in real life, that dont just walk around and attack slowly, they simply do not move at all..

1. im am fully aware of greek mythology.
2. now you contradicting yourself
3. full powered necros dont run out of mana...they simply dont..its a fact..

1. i know how strong kratos is..the fact is that even though he will be very strong even with weaken, he wont get anywhere near the necro or his minions
2. as the other have said, the smoke bombs will actually help the necromancer, not hinder him
3. you dont get it do you - kratos, as well as the whole team, wont be doing shit, because they'll be -
a. too weak and crippled to move
b. will be pouned on by bone mages, and because lower resist is affecting them, they'll be extra affected..in fact, if any of the bone mages are frost mages they'll be frozen and unable to move at all, let alone struggle
c. they have bone spirits and bone spears hitting them from any/all directions, thanks to the necros teleport..
necro wins

oh for the record, bone mages can take hits from the magic of the prime evils (whos magic >>>>>>>>>>> kratos') and not die, so the posiedon's rage thing is moot..
1. well logic told me other wise seeing how u said hades was a god only in gow
2. no look at the words i typed there almost identical both times i say
3. as for every thing else im really tired of arguin
ganon posesses the necro, yoshi flys the necro over an obelisk, (they tend to have lots of those in graveyards) yoshi drops his ass for the impale, b4 he dies ganon unpossesses him, sig hayabusa an kratos while peeved they didnt get involved in the fight all put on smiles as they take a big group picture around the obelisk which officially bcomes a monument to the necros inferiority. clapping

what utter crap
you come up with this ridiculas scenario cuz you have nothing better to argue, not to mention it completely ignores all of my points?
bravo
1. i was talking about videogames..i felt sure that was obvious...i guess not
2. yea, kinda misread your post...it doesnt matter since feats and numbers mean absolute jack here...how are their feats gonna help when they're cralwing on the ground wimpering as all of their bones are crushed and their eyes blinded, as well as getting pounded by minions relentlessly?
3. heh

ridiculous scenario? um ganon can possess so i see no reason y this is not probable. and as for ignorin ur points i just figured we were gonna go bacc and forth rewording the same points over and over cuz i wasnt movin and neither were u, so i figured id change up a lil bit and try som new. dont hate appreciate

its ridiculas because your assuming that ganon will move fast enough before he goets owned with curses

Originally posted by dat_boi
1. can u prove these clones dont have souls or dont have pieces of yoshis soul or use the power of yoshis soul.
Because as far as Namco is concerned, the said clones of Yoshimitsu can do motor functions such as walk and fight and to a point, talk, but for the clone to carry a piece of his soul you need something that carries a bit of his personality, such as the ritual katana that is continually passed down among his clan, and I doubt he’d sacrifice such a precious weapon for something mundane as a duplicate.

They’re just golems in other words, made from something corporeal off of him, such as blood or hair or flesh.

By true victim I mean the actual victim that the bone spirit is seeking out. It’s like a guided missile. It recognizes the victim by the aura of their spiritual presence, so it cannot be blinded or confused.

Even if the victim grabbed someone and held them in front of him as some sort of human shield, the bone spirit would just dodge around the guy being used as a shield and careen into its victim. It attacks with discretion.

Considering that you haven’t offered a single piece of evidence or point that hasn’t been refuted by someone here, then yes, “my” type of magic (the world of Diablo’s) is more effective than yours.

I suggest you stop trash talking over something as inane as a debate in a vs, forum over video game characters, it’s remarkably sad.

no bcuz ganons possess move moves just as fast as all necros moves he also has tele and even if he does manage 2 cast something theres no way he can 1 shot gannon b4 necro gets pwned,theres no gettin around this 1 bub

DarkC calm down aint no 1 trash talking i mean i may throw in the occasional off topic fun brand of trash talking but nothing that is intended 2 b offensive towards any 1

Originally posted by dat_boi
no bcuz ganons possess move moves just as fast as all necros moves he also has tele
Necromancer also has teleport, and has a faster start up time, like Diamond and I said earlier.

It doesn't need to be a one shot.

You can pretty much blab on and on about how "necro would get pwned" but unless you have a good and insightful argument or point that proves such and that I, nor anyone else can't refute, then you're just noise in the background of the actual debate.

I'm calm. Despite your belief, if you had looked and taken the time to read my posts properly you would not find a hint that I am not.

Congrats, you just won the "I'm a Perceptive Puppy!" award for April.

Whether it's fun or not, trash talking is still trash talking. The "we'll just see when" comment reeks of it, and being on a place like this is just ridiculous, is what it is.

this guy reminds me of furion...no debate, just spamming useless points

alrigt 4 1 DarkC i was under the impression that since u brought up trash talking that i had said something 2 offend u either way my bad i didnt mean to take wut u sed out of contextdoh but as far as the overall arguement goes i admit u guys had me cornered alot of the stuff i brought up turned out to be inneffective against this chars skillset and u guys taught me 1. this char really isnt all that much of a punk (despite wut i may have said in some of my "trash talking" 2. theres a lot of shit i didnt know about diablo so yeah i got schooled. the only thing that honestly looking bacc on it now is the only chance 4 these guys is that last scenario.

well unless jax decides to bring something else up, i say this thread is goin on the "dead" pile

Ok From what I understand about necromancer's is they have nice abilities but they have their flaws. One thing I notice is they all have Durations and and range of effect. The most I have seenis around 8 yards. Staying out of 8 yards from an opponent is not that hard specially if your fast and or has teleportation. but im still reading through.

Ryu hayabusa has immortal clones having the ability to create and control two of them. They are reistent to all magic and and physical damage and can only be taken out by Ryu dying and or Running out of stamina. They have all of RYu hayabusa techniques and skills.Art of the spirit clone or(Phantom Clones) would give this person a run for their money .

Now these poison attacks. From what I beleive they seem to be airbourne. As you can simply blow things out of the air or move the contaiminated particles with high winds. Art of the Hurricane when he summons hurricanes of intense winds to blow away targets and air particles. Since the poison doesnt last for long. Even if it does make contact. the posion should quickly run its course through the body. Ryu The Art of Divine lines. complete heals him of damage and all inflictions. So the posion and all curses put on him should be dispelled by this.

Now the bone armor and sheilds and walls. They are highly resistent to damage but from what I read they can be broken. By magic abilities. Just not by melee attacks. Such as punches, kicks, sword slashes ext.

Well Basically Ryu should be able to just use ninpo and or his powerful spirit energy attack which are all quite quick.

i dont think the bone Sheilds or bone wall is going to stop the Art of the Peircing Void. When ryu summons meteors to crush his targets. So basically Ryu can summon a meteor and obliterate the sheilds and take out the necro all n one blow.

Ryu has gotten faster over the instalments. Specially in NGII where his higest speed achiveble which were during his essence moves he can simply move like that at will in the forms of dashes. Right now Ryu Hayabusa has the speed of Loz and maybe even Weiss. at full speed. So Ryu can definetly catch and deal damage. On top of that he has teleportation.

Ryu range attacks such as his spirit energy blades should be a problem as well. When he slices in to the wind and multiple energy blades emerge and home in on their targets to slice them through.

Also since You just said Ryu hayabusa doesnt have his Dragon Blades. You mentioned nothing about the Demon Stones he has in his possession. He can simply summon an enitity more powerful then the Dark dragon(well rivals its powers) to take on Necromancer.


Also since everyone seems to have the ability to summon their Minions. Is Ryu Hayabusa able to summon upon the force of the Hayabusa clan since he is their leader

There are alot of items, abilities, and factors that you are overlooking upon these characters. I highly doubt after looking over all Necromancers abilities he will be able to take on ALL of them. One on one maybe give them a run for their money and even be able to beat them. Right now im gathering up more information for my argument. So please dont dispute this.

no problem..lemme just address the first bit
most of the ingame stat are highly under exagerated...get to the highest of levels, and the necros range is that of the screen and further..as for duration, it doesnt matter, as this is perfect ai, and he simply recast all the curses again the instant the time runs out..since curses are the necro's trump card, this is the only point i need to address, as most other points are moot the second the necro activates decripify, blind, weaken, iron maiden and lower resist

The greatest advantage I see for the Necromancer is the fact that his teleport is more effective, faster and more controlable than the others hmm This is what makes me so certain about his victory, since he will not be caught.

hellz yea!
1KzTHaatmtE

Noob at having unspent skill points

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
The greatest advantage I see for the Necromancer is the fact that his teleport is more effective, faster and more controlable than the others hmm This is what makes me so certain about his victory, since he will not be caught.

Evidence. So Far Ryu Hayabusa has had some amazing teleportation abilities. Traveling both short and long distances and mixing teleportation with his combos and moves while fighting. Both in DOA and in NGII. Also with his ability to go into Spirit form and become intangible.

Look at the Necromancer in MadMel's video. That Necromancer has low FCR and is not a too good player but he still teleport relativly swift.

I see. already seen it. So far it seems to just be place movement. From what I can see. I dont see it conjuctioning attacks with it. So im still led to beleive that Ryu's teleportation is more effective. as its still smooth, but able to do more with it.

I have seen Ryu's teleport and even though he may use it to different combo's, it is far from as swift and rapid as the Necromancer's. The Necro would not need to combine it with attacks, because he can more more agile and all his spells are instant, making it not only hard for Ryu to keep up but to counter.

Ryu has used it instantly in his combo's. And even without combos he just uses a simple gesture and he dissapears. In clips of NGII you see him porting over the place quickly to fight multiple enemies at the same time. but thats if you choose to use content from NGII. Even then his speed alone now as seen in NGII with his flash dash should be able to keep up with short range teleportation

The teleport of the Necromancer is not short ranged

What good if it isnt short range. When Ryu hayabusa cant commit to long range teleportations as well. Specially when he can teleport half way across the globe. If this necromancer teleports out of range. Then he ruins his range as well. Because from what I see the spells it can cast are also limited to range. But i see no reason in not giving them a small range boost but they should keep close to it. Ryu on the other hand has Long range capabilities with his chi blasts, beams, balls, and Raining meteors down from the sky.

Originally posted by Csdabest
What good if it isnt short range. When Ryu hayabusa cant commit to long range teleportations as well. Specially when he can teleport half way across the globe. If this necromancer teleports out of range. Then he ruins his range as well.
Since when did point blank range affect his spells in any way, or is that something that you just made up?

Still, necromancer curses own the ninja.

Confused, blinded, weakened, and all damage he does is reflected back on him. Poor guy.

Reflected back 1000%

i blieve the guy stated that not only in this scenario is he out of curse range

Originally posted by DarkC
Since when did point blank range affect his spells in any way, or is that something that you just made up?

Still, necromancer curses own the ninja.

Confused, blinded, weakened, and all damage he does is reflected back on him. Poor guy.

No the range of his spells that are clearly stated on the official site that your party has given me. The spells have a range of about 6 to 8 yard radius. And again how will a curse own a ninja if the person is to far out of his range to cast So now. The ninja wont get owned by a curse specially since he can easily avoid the range and still be effective in battle.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
Reflected back 1000%
He has to cast Iron Maiden on the party first and even that has its range. As you said that the necromancer can teleport long range. So teleporting long range will hinder it since it spells has range issue. So cant cast Iron maiden if ryu is attacking from to far away for the spell to be casted. So the Iron Maiden is made useless. And from that sites decription it says Iron Maiden only works for Melee attacks. So Ninpo magic such as the meteor shower, Inuzama,inferni, and his spiritial blasts,waves, beams, and balls, or anything that isnt like a sword slash, or punchm or kick or throw, Shouldnt be effected by the Iron Maiden.
So even if casted their are abilities that are not Melee to work around it. Also a death blow is a deathblow. But sadly Ryu has items and a Gaurdian spirit that ressurects him. Counting on the items more than tha spirit. Or he could just send his Spirit Clones(phantom copies) to do his dirty work. which are immortal and dont get effected by anything such as spells, magic, bullets, attack anything. They simply phase through and or have no effect. And from the drescription of Iron Maiden that you have given me, and from the site has given me. it seems the person as to directly attack melee wise for the damage to get delt back to them

Then you forget about the items that Ryu has in his possesion. Such as The Bushido Scroll, and The dragon statue. Bushido scrolls give him the ability to control the world, such as the enviornment, and weather(Im not going to go as far to say time but this scroll is powerful). The Dragon Statue gives him the ability to summon the Dark Dragon which is the power of the blade. You said he just couldnt have the swords or blades. both abilities and items given to Ryu in the Ninja Gaiden Games, and Ninja Ryukenden installments all canon to Ryu Hayabusa.

The Art of divine life heals ryu and also cancles out all inflictions bestowed on him. So thats pretty safe to assume curses aswell. Since a curse as seen in many cases are inflictions.

Originally posted by Csdabest
No the range of his spells that are clearly stated on the official site that your party has given me. The spells have a range of about 6 to 8 yard radius. And again how will a curse own a ninja if the person is to far out of his range to cast So now. The ninja wont get owned by a curse specially since he can easily avoid the range and still be effective in battle.
You're under the impression that this battle is solely decided by game mechanics, when this is obviously not the case. Nozdormu made it clear earlier that abilities touched by lore (necromancer spells) are perfectly viable.

The fact remains that a young necromancer was able to work his magic from extremely long distances, such as casting a spell of sight, maintaining the magic of golems, and casting curses when standing on a mountain, and the target of his casting was far, far below into the city in the mountain’s shadow.

Considering the range that he is casting at, yes it would be entirely possible to curse someone from afar as well.

All that you just said is noise there. See above argument.

Yes, game wise it only works for melee, but in the novels (Moon of the Spider, specifically) it’s been shown to reflect magic, such as Teeth from a rival necromancer. So it can reflect magic.

If his soul is stolen by a bone spirit and dragged down to the afterworld, how the hell is he going to get resurrected without a soul?

So you have a shell that just stands there and does nothing. Terrific plan, resurrection.

Terrible ironic of you to say.

There’s been plenty of “immortal” spirit-based enemies in both the first and second Diablo games, not to mention the lore, and they’ve been easily killable. Considering that the fact that the magic of the necromancer is actually based in the dealing of spirits and ghosts, he could easily just “banish” the spirits from the mortal world. If they’re clones or golems, he just dispels them.

To say that magic cannot be countered by magic is stupidity on a level all of its own.

As game mechanics dictate, yes. Fortunately necromancers possess the ability to control and summon spirits, even those originally outside his control, so it’s a moot point.

Also, read my argument above regarding Iron Maiden.



And that is supposed to affect the necromancer how?



Unless he can continually spam heal then that’s a useless tactic, if he’s going to want to do any damage. Even if the curse is dispelled the necromancer just draws another symbol in the air and recasts it. Lore-wise it doesn’t take much mana, if at all. It’s a curse, which means that it falls outside the field of typical spell-related magic anyways.

He gets cursed, he heals.
He gets cursed, he heals.
Rinse, and repeat.

If we’re going by this tactic we may as well cancel Hayabusa out of the picture altogether, as he is going to be utterly useless attempting to dispel each curse that the necromancer throws at him, not to mention recovering from the effects of each curse after it’s been dispelled.

Originally posted by DarkC
You're under the impression that this battle is solely decided by game mechanics, when this is obviously not the case. Nozdormu made it clear earlier that abilities touched by lore (necromancer spells) are perfectly viable.

The fact remains that a young necromancer was able to work his magic from extremely long distances, such as casting a spell of sight, maintaining the magic of golems, and casting curses when standing on a mountain, and the target of his casting was far, far below into the city in the mountain’s shadow.

Considering the range that he is casting at, yes it would be entirely possible to curse someone from afar as well.

All that you just said is noise there. See above argument.

Yes, game wise it only works for melee, but in the novels (Moon of the Spider, specifically) it’s been shown to reflect magic, such as Teeth from a rival necromancer. So it can reflect magic.

If his soul is stolen by a bone spirit and dragged down to the afterworld, how the hell is he going to get resurrected without a soul?

So you have a shell that just stands there and does nothing. Terrific plan, resurrection.

Terrible ironic of you to say.

There’s been plenty of “immortal” spirit-based enemies in both the first and second Diablo games, not to mention the lore, and they’ve been easily killable. Considering that the fact that the magic of the necromancer is actually based in the dealing of spirits and ghosts, he could easily just “banish” the spirits from the mortal world. If they’re clones or golems, he just dispels them.

To say that magic cannot be countered by magic is stupidity on a level all of its own.

As game mechanics dictate, yes. Fortunately necromancers possess the ability to control and summon spirits, even those originally outside his control, so it’s a moot point.

Also, read my argument above regarding Iron Maiden.



And that is supposed to affect the necromancer how?



Unless he can continually spam heal then that’s a useless tactic, if he’s going to want to do any damage. Even if the curse is dispelled the necromancer just draws another symbol in the air and recasts it. Lore-wise it doesn’t take much mana, if at all. It’s a curse, which means that it falls outside the field of typical spell-related magic anyways.

He gets cursed, he heals.
He gets cursed, he heals.
Rinse, and repeat.

If we’re going by this tactic we may as well cancel Hayabusa out of the picture altogether, as he is going to be utterly useless attempting to dispel each curse that the necromancer throws at him, not to mention recovering from the effects of each curse after it’s been dispelled.

Considering that everone read the lore Books I would like proof. Because you can easily just jabber on. feats. Another thing is you said in happen in the book focusing on one character. So giving all feats of one character for another is not viable. Even if they share the same character class. Also I got it from the so called official site.(range) And as known outside sources are only canon to the point until it contradicts the official source. Also real life measurements are hard to translate into a video game seeing as a TV is not a yard long. So are their examples of multiple numbers of necromancers casting long distance spells making it common for all necromancers to cast long distance spells. Also what kind of spells and what where the spells casted. Because the spells on the site all have different ranges. So until Iron Maiden has been seen casted from a far distance. Then the point still stands.

Reflecting and dealing back damage are two different things. and Iron maiden has a time limit as well. Also it can only reflect magic thats its on par with. Its not going to reflect damage from a spell or a technique thats vastly stomps it in power. Such as a Meteor crashing through it. And the spiritial Beams, and blasts are not magic. There are manifestians of spiritial energy. So definetly Iron Maiden wouldnt and shouldnt have any effect in it.

Thats one ability. And the Gaurdian spirit takes back the spirit of the dead from the afterlife and brings it back into the body. His spirit didnt just linger there for the days he sat out.

Not Ironic. The spirit clones the necromancer banished are not the same. And work on different levels. Ryu's spirit clones(phantom copies) are invulnerable to ALL magic and ALL Damage. The only way for them to dissapear is for Ryu to Die, Run out of stamina, or at the end of a level(Fight in which his sends them back). Your neglecting the characters stated abilities and powers which has been officialiy stated. And seeing as how KMC forums saying the characters powers are kept un tact into versus threads. Ryu clone abilities are in the same effect.

No that is not a game mechanic. Its the ability of the character and no its not the same ability. Outline yes but inner workings no. Your trying to find a medium between two character abilities which are different and have the same name. The attacks just phase through and the clone remain uneffected. If it didnt then it would be just a glitch. and since thats how the move is describe by the company, and seen in game then thats how the move works. So no game mechanic thats how it is.

Bushido Scroll gives the user the ability to control the world. So if a person can control the world this gives them power over the seas, skies, land. Giving them ability to manipulate the world as seen fit causing planetary disaster in the form of nature. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand how this is effective in battle. Ability to summon storms, move the lands, causse hurricanes, earth quakes, sand storms, change temeperatures. Control the world naturual world. Im not going to go as far as to say he can control time, animals, and plagues.

Yeah and while he is busy rinse and repeating. What do you expect for him to do about Siegfried, Kratos, Ganon, and Yoshimitsu.


Its funny how you use Game mechanics for the Necromancer when its convient and then switch to Lore when its convient aswell. Things such as perfect AI and a skill tree, with top levels. Then try and apply them to lore.

Information Im waiting for.

-That it wasnt just one Necromancers casting long range curses and spells. That it was all of them. If not then your just giving another characters feats because another character of similiar class did something.

-The Spells that the necromancer used. Because from what I see. All the spells have their different range of effect. So one spell shouldnt apply for all others.

He gets cursed, he heals.
He gets cursed, he heals.
Ryu Summons a spirit Clone
He gets cursed, he heals
The spirit clone cuts him down.

Or one of the other four members of the team cuts him down.

Thing is you made it a 5 on one match when a character that has been fully explored can take him on by himself.

or juggleraped ohhhhhhh snizzzap

Thing is The Art of Divine life. gives the ability to restore Ryu and rids afflictions and dispell curses. So this basically nullifies the Necro's curses.

And I highly doubt that the Necro's bone Armor or Wall will stop A Meteorite shower upon him. Specially since its supposedly weak aginst Magic, and spiritial attacks. and only strong aginst melee.

Ryu has ways of countering Spells that has been disposed on him and damage that has been inflicted.

Yes the necro has ways of blockling melee attacks and so called magic attacks that one necro has performed supposedly.(Even though one characters feats shouldnt be bestowed upon another). i doubt they can block the force of a Meteor.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Considering that everone read the lore Books I would like proof. Because you can