rots anakin and dooku bumrush rots palpatine
Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.
Man of Christ
they both team up on him
Gideon
That would depend heavily on the location and the rules; is this an all out fight? In that case, Anakin is disabled with the Force and Palpatine reminds Dooku just precisely why the Count takes orders from him.
Man of Christ
Originally posted by Gideon
That would depend heavily on the location and the rules; is this an all out fight? In that case, Anakin is disabled with the Force and Palpatine reminds Dooku just precisely why the Count takes orders from him.
he is sitting in the chair on the ship from rot's they jump in on him
1 sabers only
2 force fight
3 all out
Gideon
Originally posted by Man of Christ
he is sitting in the chair on the ship from rot's they jump in on him
So, General Grievous's quarters on the Invisible Hand. Gotcha.
Count Dooku and Anakin Skywalker are both stupidly accomplished swordsmen; Count Dooku was the former lightsaber instructor in the Jedi Temple and has spent decades refining Makashi to its apex, and Anakin Skywalker is an overwhelmingly physical swordsman who, as a fight progresses, only serves to get stronger and more overwhelming. In contrast, Darth Sidious has not touched a lightsaber prior to Revenge of the Sith in well over a decade. He can't stand against these two, even though they're hardly a cohesive team.
Count Dooku and Anakin Skywalker are both powerful Force users, but Anakin's strength seems to be purely based on his peerless connection to the Force as opposed to experience and technique. Meanwhile, Count Dooku's proficiency has been nurtured with a great deal of both, and he is among "the most powerful Jedi Masters in the Order's twenty-five-thousand year history" (Revenge of the Sith novelization). However, even combined, they cannot compare to Darth Sidious, whose mere presence is enough to weaken the Jedi Order's sensitivity to the Force that Mace Windu mentioned in Attack of the Clones. He has demonstrated a far more powerful mastery of telekinesis, able to hurl automobile sized Senate pods and levitate them without visible effort and his Sith lightning was sufficient enough to disarm Master Yoda whereas Dooku was unable to so much as stumble Kenobi, and his lightning was sufficient to nearly overwhelm Yoda's own Force deflection. Anakin will be disabled quite handily with the Force, with Count following suit.
Palpatine will win. The Revenge of the Sith novelization indicated that Palpatine was able to move at speeds that Anakin identified only as "a blur", he possesses a far greater command of the Force than either one of his opponents, and is a remarkably cagey fighter that would likely be able to exploit the weaknesses of their teamwork. Anakin's lack of Force defense and recklessness would probably make him the first one down; Sidious will disable him handily, and the Count will follow close behind.
darthsith19
What is the source for this?
I agree with Gideon with everything except the all-out fight. Anakin and Sidious are both level 9 swordsmen, if it was a lightsaber duel it would be close. Mace also calls Anakin "arguably the most powerful Jedi ever" in the ROTS novel, which basically means Anakin is arguably more powerful than Yoda (in Mace's opinion), and looking at the current "Yoda vs. Sidious rematch", a lot of people think that Yoda is arguably above Sidious. Adding in Dooku is overkill.
That doesn't mean anything though because Anakin never saw Sidious fight in ROTS, as shown in the movie. The movie retcons that part of the novel.
Gideon
Originally posted by darthsith19
What is the source for this?
The Ultimate Visual Guide.
Darthsith, this is not enough to assert that Anakin > Sidious. What you essentially have is Windu's statement that Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive (emphasized) and that some people believe that Yoda is arguably above Sidious. Meanwhile, I have the omniscient narrator's conclusion that Yoda was "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known." Likewise, Count Dooku -- despite being harried and, one might say, 'desperate' in the lightsaber duel between himself, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Anakin Skywalker was still able to disable Anakin and Obi-Wan (moreso Obi-Wan) with the Force (and in Anakin's case, a Force assisted attack). Dooku was able to breach Obi-Wan's Force defense twice throughout that the duel, the same Obi-Wan who managed to stalemate Anakin's Force push later in the movie.
So, you're going to tell me that Dooku's obvious superior couldn't do the same? I find that rather ridiculous and I would point out that I've come to expect a hell of a lot better than this; you literally have nothing but speculation and inconclusive statements.
Lightsnake debated this with Nai Fohl on EoD a long while back, and according to Matthew Stover, who wrote the novelization, every single thing that appeared in the novelization was there because Lucas explicitly wanted it to be, which would include Sidious's speed. Not that it matters, as even if we exclude it, there's still far too much in the Sith Lord's favor.
Elite Hunter
So Gideon would that mean Dooku was a battlemaster like Cin Drallig or just another instructor?
Gideon
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
So Gideon would that mean Dooku was a battlemaster like Cin Drallig or just another instructor?
That is a good question. The UVG refers to him as "a legendary lightsaber instructor" and I do believe that Yoda, in LoE, made some reference to him being the foremost instructor at the Temple.
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Gideon
The Ultimate Visual Guide.
Darthsith, this is not enough to assert that Anakin > Sidious. What you essentially have is Windu's statement that Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive (emphasized) and that some people believe that Yoda is arguably above Sidious. Meanwhile, I have the omniscient narrator's conclusion that Yoda was "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known." Likewise, Count Dooku -- despite being harried and, one might say, 'desperate' in the lightsaber duel between himself, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Anakin Skywalker was still able to disable Anakin and Obi-Wan (moreso Obi-Wan) with the Force (and in Anakin's case, a Force assisted attack). Dooku was able to breach Obi-Wan's Force defense twice throughout that the duel, the same Obi-Wan who managed to stalemate Anakin's Force push later in the movie.
I believe Windu's statement indicated that Anakin had the most raw force abilities and potential out of any jedi alive, but he lacked certain experience and force mastery.
Master_Starbuck
Originally posted by Gideon
So, General Grievous's quarters on the Invisible Hand. Gotcha.
In contrast, Darth Sidious has not touched a lightsaber prior to Revenge of the Sith in well over a decade. He can't stand against these two, even though they're hardly a cohesive team.
He hadn't touched his lightsaber in a decade and he was able to handily dispatch three renowned swordsmen in ten seconds?
What's the source for his not having used a lightsaber in so long?
Gideon
Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
He hadn't touched his lightsaber in a decade and he was able to handily dispatch three renowned swordsmen in ten seconds?
What's the source for his not having used a lightsaber in so long?
The Revenge of the Sith novelization states that Palpatine's lightsaber was locked away in a statue for well over a decade. Count Dooku recalled in Labyrinth of Evil that Darth Sidious never bothered instructing him in lightsaber technique. And, concluding, common sense. Palpatine ascended to the most powerful office in the Galactic Republic, scrutinized and burdened with the responsibilites of 'leading' a war (actually, manipulating both ends). I doubt he would've had the time.
Faunus
He has multiple lightsabers, since he manages to pop one out on both Mace and Yoda. It'd be unreasonable to say he rigorously practiced, or even had anything close to "regular" sessions, but he definitely had some time on his hands: he noted in RoDV that he wasn't foolish enough to sleep - going back to Plagueis - and despite his responsibilities he managed to get countless messages across to the Separatists under the guise of Sidious.
I don't think it would too much of a stretch to say that he had indeed used his lightsaber at least once since his election.
Gideon
Originally posted by Faunus
He has multiple lightsabers, since he manages to pop one out on both Mace and Yoda. It'd be unreasonable to say he rigorously practiced, or even had anything close to "regular" sessions, but he definitely had some time on his hands: he noted in RoDV that he wasn't foolish enough to sleep - going back to Plagueis - and despite his responsibilities he managed to get countless messages across to the Separatists under the guise of Sidious.
I don't think it would too much of a stretch to say that he had indeed used his lightsaber at least once since his election.
All evidence points to the contrary, Faunus. His musings to Mace in the novelization ("if you only knew how long I had been waiting for this"
, Dooku's musings that his Master never even bothered going over lightsaber technique, why would Sidious need to train? There has to be reason to conclude that he touched a lightsaber, all you've proven is that he might have had some time to do so.
Master_Starbuck
Originally posted by Gideon
All evidence points to the contrary, Faunus. His musings to Mace in the novelization ("if you only knew how long I had been waiting for this"
, Dooku's musings that his Master never even bothered going over lightsaber technique, why would Sidious need to train? There has to be reason to conclude that he touched a lightsaber, all you've proven is that he might have had some time to do so.
He must have been a natural, because normally when you don't train, especially for 10 years, you get rusty, and then normally, you get killed.
Gideon
Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
He must have been a natural, because normally when you don't train, especially for 10 years, you get rusty, and then normally, you get killed.
That isn't necessarily uncommon. Consider that, in Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, Mace Windu muses that it had been years since Master Yoda has demonstrated his abilities with a lightsaber (and presumably even longer since he used it to defend himself) yet his skills were still "second to none" on the Jedi Council. In Episode I Journal: Darth Maul, Darth Sidious displayed enough technique with a lightsaber to:
Master_Starbuck
Good points.
Faunus
Originally posted by Gideon
All evidence points to the contrary, Faunus. His musings to Mace in the novelization ("if you only knew how long I had been waiting for this"
,To fight a Jedi face-to-face? Darth Maul says as much.
As of his first meeting with Palpatine, Dooku was a seventy year-old Form II master - his own technical dueling skill could have exceeded that of Palpatine himself.
I never said he did. But you can't automatically assume that just because we didn't see him doing it, he never once picked up his lightsaber between TPM and RotS.
Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.
Copyright 1999-2024 KillerMovies.