When Would It Be Considered Acceptable to Like Wolverine?

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Neo_Version 7
I personally used to hate Wolverine (far too many fanboys, poorly written, Skyfather-like level, etc.) but now it seems a number of people have realized his overrated-ness as well (for lack of a better or actual word).

I mean he really is not a bad character when written well and exposed in small doses. Now I consider him one of my favorite characters in an ironic way.

So, my point is, when would you guys ever like him as a character? When Marvel decides to depower him? If they stop with the multiple Wolvie titles?

megaroguefan
i really like wolverine when he is not acting like a lovesick puppy when he sees jean

Neo_Version 7
Originally posted by megaroguefan
i really like wolverine when he is not acting like a lovesick puppy when he sees jean

That too.
You would expect him to be more detached than that.

Shieldbou
Are you partly referring to my post in the 'Cool Hero! Crap Powers!' thread?

Neo_Version 7
Hey, I just read your post and you indeed put some valid ideas.

I just like Logan again because everyone else seems to hate him. When everyone starts liking him, then I will consider jumping ship.

Ordained
i really don't like him because i think that he is overrated and has to much favoritism on Marvel's part. there are so many other characters that would thrive with a solo storyline, (Storm and Iceman preferably) and could go into a greater detail about their powers, history and personality. but instead, they focus onwolverine and his membership or guest membership on every branch team of the X-Men.

Shieldbou
I just think he needs to be taken a notch down. Logan is pretty cool, pretty tough and generally quite a cool concept it's just a shame that he has everything helpful. Another character like this is Spider-Woman (Jessica) and I'm being serious, she has like a lot of powers that just basically make the fans happy that she's 'bubble-wrapped'
"Superhuman strength, speed, stamina, agility, reflexes, senses, and durability
Flight
Pheromone generation
Ability to adhere to walls through bio-electric attraction
Ability to shoot beams of bio-electric energy from her hands,
Immunity to all poisons and radiation."
BEAMS? LAZAR BEAMS? Fanservice has gone overboard on this one cap'n.
Although, she is one of my favorite Heroes.

Genosha
For all who hate or love Wolverine, check out Exiles #85 and #86...and I think there might be a third one in the story arc, but I'm not sure.

Wolverine is great, but anytime a hero becomes indistructable people stop caring.

BTW the same rule doesn't apply to villains.

katepyro
I like him but they should make him just a tiny bit less emocional towards jean.. and he has such a big part he pushes the other characters -who i like more- over to the side. it annoys me

Shadow_King
they stop with the multiple Wolvie titles, and plus all the people just hype him up so much, and make him out to be like the toughest character in all of marvel.

megaroguefan
i like wolvie but not in the movie or fox animated series becouse he was in love with jean
that sucks

Celestialgirl
I do like Wolverine deep deep down buried under my hate of how all the x-men movies were about him and now he's getting his own movie? I find it depressing! As an x-men fan I am going to go see it but only because Gambit's going to be in it and I loooove Gambit. Also why does Wolverine have to be on every single x-men team or almost?

Genosha
From the perspective of a fictional character, who wouldn't want to work with Wolvie? He's excellent as the muscle, with brute strength, fast healing, and stellar fighting and tracking skills. His abilities and experience make him versatile enough to be stealthy or play the tank. That experience also affords him a confidence that many other X-men, despite being around a while, still lack. He knows what he is, pretty or not, and makes no apologies for it.

As a character he adds something to any team he's with, either as a grunt or a mentor.

Another reason writers like Logan, is the long and rich history that's been built up around him. There's alot of background there to draw on to give stories depth while there are enough gaps that it's easy for a new writer to connect a new villain or event to a current character.

There are a lot of practical reasons for him being over used....So how is it, as a non Wolvie fan, I always get stuck defending his prominence as being well deserved?

Csdabest
Once Wolverine Shows some vulnerability. Then I will like him. When this immortal Crap stops then I will be happy. When he got incernated to the Exo skeleton. He became my most hated character ever.

Battlehammer
shut up with this crap already

starlock
Originally posted by Celestialgirl
I do like Wolverine deep deep down buried under my hate of how all the x-men movies were about him and now he's getting his own movie? I find it depressing! As an x-men fan I am going to go see it but only because Gambit's going to be in it and I loooove Gambit. Also why does Wolverine have to be on every single x-men team or almost?

I am also a huge xmen fan, i happen to like wolvie allot, but i think we should try and remember, wolverine is so popular it makes it possible to have more xmen stuff, yes he might be all over the place and featured in the movies the most...i think its ok, to me cyclops will always be the leader of the xmen.....but even i am excited about the new cartoon


It all comes down to good writing, he can be invulnerable and have no weakness and regenerate like nobody else, or he can have bone claws and a stunted healing factor..........again if the writing is good....i will enjoy it smile

Its always ok to like wolverine wink

srankmissingnin
Wolverine doesn't have any more monthly appearances then Spider-man, Batman or Superman. So you need to ask yourself, what makes them more deserving then Wolverine? He is a popular flag ship character with a more interesting back story either of those three and yet people ***** and moan about Wolverine's appearances... and totally ignore the fact that Batman makes up 90% of DCs monthly issues. Batman appeared in no less then 10 (plus what ever guest appearances he may have had) in continuity titles in May, but he is easier to swallow then Wolverine? I mean at least Wolverine can go for weeks without sleep, so him being all over the place makes some degree of sense but Batman...

And if we are being honest, he doesn't get all that much panel time; not even in the books he is official part of. He rarely does much of anything in New Avengers or Astonishing.

wannabe
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And if we are being honest, he doesn't get all that much panel time; not even in the books he is official part of. He rarely does much of anything in New Avengers or Astonishing.
That make's it even more annoying, because it shows all the more that he is just being used as a bait while everything which made him interesting once is being ignored.

I would start liking Wolverine again, if ...
- they stoped using him on every other Marvel title
- they would stop making him nigh immortal, regenerating from almost nothing but a couple of cells
- they would either stop calling him one of the best martial artists OR would picture him as actually BEING what they call him. That would mean he should start winning some battles due to his prowess and not just because he can heal from even the most severe wounds.
- they would start writing interesting stories about him again

Genosha
In all fairness, Batman, Spiderman, and Superman are all iconic. Being around for 50 or more years will do that for you. I think that the reason people resist Wolverine's prominence, is because writers felt the need to remake him into a god. This has alienated his origional fan base, who loved him be cause he was sort of the antithisis of Superman.

Battlehammer
this thread cracks me up with it rediculousness. I sware my thoery correct and explains the creations of pointless and bitching threads like this.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine doesn't have any more monthly appearances then Spider-man, Batman or Superman. So you need to ask yourself, what makes them more deserving then Wolverine? He is a popular flag ship character with a more interesting back story either of those three and yet people ***** and moan about Wolverine's appearances... and totally ignore the fact that Batman makes up 90% of DCs monthly issues. Batman appeared in no less then 10 (plus what ever guest appearances he may have had) in continuity titles in May, but he is easier to swallow then Wolverine? I mean at least Wolverine can go for weeks without sleep, so him being all over the place makes some degree of sense but Batman...

And if we are being honest, he doesn't get all that much panel time; not even in the books he is official part of. He rarely does much of anything in New Avengers or Astonishing.
co-signed.


hell he was wizard top chioces for greatest character.

Superherovandal
Originally posted by Battlehammer
co-signed.


hell he was wizard top chioces for greatest character. That's there opinion. Doesn't mean its true.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Superherovandal
That's there opinion. Doesn't mean its true.
.......................it always a matter of opinion.............there no way to prove one character is the best.............it simply peoples opinions.............



though an entire company decided the best character was wolverine.................

Arachnid1
Originally posted by Battlehammer
.......................it always a matter of opinion.............there no way to prove one character is the best.............it simply peoples opinions.............



though an entire company decided the best character was wolverine................. The best character in marvel?

I've come across a crap load of polls on the internet with different results. This is the first time I've seen an entire group of people who arent all completely wolverine fan boys (or maybe they are) say wolverine is the best in marvel.

Oh well. As you said, opinion.

Raoul
wizard said he was the greatest chatacter ever? let them... doesnt make a difference to me...

when i was growing up (mid to late 80s, early 90s), EVERYONE who liked comics that i knew loved logan, i was almost a pariah for being a cyclops fan... logan was always be popular, cos he's the standard definition of what people would describe as being 'cool'

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Arachnid1
The best character in marvel?

I've come across a crap load of polls on the internet with different results. This is the first time I've seen an entire group of people who arent all completely wolverine fan boys (or maybe they are) say wolverine is the best in marvel.

Oh well. As you said, opinion.
no best character period. I think batman was like 4th.


wizard arre far from wolverine fanboys.

Genosha
Best character ever? That's a bold claim. What were the criteria, or was it just popular vote?

Where did superman rank? I mean, he's the very definition of what it is to be a superhero; everyone else is just playing the game.

Raoul
it is wizard, these are the same guys who hype up stuff like ultimates 3...

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Genosha
Best character ever? That's a bold claim. What were the criteria, or was it just popular vote?

Where did superman rank? I mean, he's the very definition of what it is to be a superhero; everyone else is just playing the game.

WIZARD's top 10

10. John Constantine
9. Magneto
8. Hellboy
7. Captain America
6. Rorschach
5. The Joker
4. Superman
3. Spider-man
2. Batman
1. Wolverine



That was WIZARD'S reason naming Wolverine number one, and honestly does anyone disagree with any of that?

starlock
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
WIZARD's top 10

10. John Constantine
9. Magneto
8. Hellboy
7. Captain America
6. Rorschach
5. The Joker
4. Superman
3. Spider-man
2. Batman
1. Wolverine



That was WIZARD'S reason naming Wolverine number one, and honestly does anyone disagree with any of that?

Who could disagree with that? wink

jdea
Originally posted by Neo_Version 7
I personally used to hate Wolverine (far too many fanboys, poorly written, Skyfather-like level, etc.) but now it seems a number of people have realized his overrated-ness as well (for lack of a better or actual word).

I mean he really is not a bad character when written well and exposed in small doses. Now I consider him one of my favorite characters in an ironic way.

So, my point is, when would you guys ever like him as a character? When Marvel decides to depower him? If they stop with the multiple Wolvie titles?

yes, when they stop over promoting him, I guess I just don't like when people from groups are pushed much more than the others, Initially Wolverine was my 2nd fav to Storm, because he was the guy who didn't say much, but when he did something it was awesome, then he fell to the background, all mysterioussly- dangerous and all

Now he's everywhere, giving inspirational speaches and leading teams and all, it's out of character for me, I liked him better as the angry loner, and not the focal point

Genosha
I would disagree that spidey, superman, and batman are black and white heros, pure of heart. They've all had to fight against thier darker impulses. I mean Batman was an antihero before logan was a twinkle in his mother's eye.

Anyway, I'm not saying that wolverine isn't an interesting read...But Superman 4th? I'm not even a fan of the man o' steel and that just seems...inaccurate. Constantine made the list though, that's pretty cool.

Battlehammer
actaully batman really was not an anti-hero in the mordern senses. Logan was would created the modern anti-hero which actually is the reason batman is the character he is to day

redhotrash
My issues with Wolverine has always been his over exposure and his own fanboy writers. Dont get me wrong, I like the character, I really do. I like his history, his origin, and all the reasonable stuff hes done in his career. But honestly he doesnt need to sleep with every heroine, he doesnt need to be scoring wins he should, he shouldnt be getting the powers of captain marvel or taking center stage of 7+ titles a month. But lets be fair here, Marvel has a goldmine with him, so why not push him as much as possible. Dont hate the character, hate the hype. I personally liked him best when he was the tough guy in the background. The one who didnt dominate every page but who you knew was there and knew he'd kick some ass when the time came. The team is called the X-Men, not Wolverine and Co.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by redhotrash
My issues with Wolverine has always been his over exposure and his own fanboy writers. Dont get me wrong, I like the character, I really do. I like his history, his origin, and all the reasonable stuff hes done in his career. But honestly he doesnt need to sleep with every heroine, he doesnt need to be scoring wins he should, he shouldnt be getting the powers of captain marvel or taking center stage of 7+ titles a month. But lets be fair here, Marvel has a goldmine with him, so why not push him as much as possible. Dont hate the character, hate the hype. I personally liked him best when he was the tough guy in the background. The one who didnt dominate every page but who you knew was there and knew he'd kick some ass when the time came. The team is called the X-Men, not Wolverine and Co.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine doesn't have any more monthly appearances then Spider-man, Batman or Superman. So you need to ask yourself, what makes them more deserving then Wolverine? He is a popular flag ship character with a more interesting back story either of those three and yet people ***** and moan about Wolverine's appearances... and totally ignore the fact that Batman makes up 90% of DCs monthly issues. Batman appeared in no less then 10 (plus what ever guest appearances he may have had) in continuity titles in May, but he is easier to swallow then Wolverine? I mean at least Wolverine can go for weeks without sleep, so him being all over the place makes some degree of sense but Batman...

And if we are being honest, he doesn't get all that much panel time; not even in the books he is official part of. He rarely does much of anything in New Avengers or Astonishing.

He doesn't have any more monthly appearances then Spider-man, Batman, or Superman... and judging by actual panel time he probably has significantly less (most of the his guest appearances he show up for a few panels and does nothing). He isn't center stage in any of the books he appears in other then his solo titles (and he rarely plays an important part in the major story line of any of the team books he is in). In essence... you're problems with Wolverine are either made up or non-existant.

So you like the character... and his origins... but make up reason you don't like him... and ignore the fact that all of his "hype" and shortcomings are matched and superseded by the other top three comic book icons? Doesn't make much sense... unless you are a lair and thought claiming you actually liked Wolverine when you didn't would someone validate your oppinion.

Seriously though, people are just looking for a reason to hate Wolverine. Every problem he has Batman has the 100th degree.

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by Neo_Version 7


So, my point is, when would you guys ever like him as a character?

When and if his character ever appeals to you


I used to like Wolverine, until, much like the star wars universe, he was shoved down my fuking throat.

redhotrash
The Batman problem doesnt affect me because I dont read a lot of DC anymore. Besides even if Batman and Spidey are oversaturated, which they are, that doesnt make it right. Thats like saying Hitler wasnt a A-hole because he didnt kill as many people as Stalin.

Raoul
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
WIZARD's top 10

10. John Constantine
9. Magneto
8. Hellboy
7. Captain America
6. Rorschach
5. The Joker
4. Superman
3. Spider-man
2. Batman
1. Wolverine



That was WIZARD'S reason naming Wolverine number one, and honestly does anyone disagree with any of that?

i do... its just THEIR opinion, the same guys who go on about how great jeph loeb and brian bendis are, etc...

i mean, its their opinion, and they're entitled to it, but i strongly disagree...

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Raoul
i do... its just THEIR opinion, the same guys who go on about how great jeph loeb and brian bendis are, etc...

i mean, its their opinion, and they're entitled to it, but i strongly disagree...




I didn't ask you if you disagreed with the list, I asked if you could argue with the reasoning provided for Wolverine being number one. There is very little in the way of opinion in provided in WIZARDS reasoning. It is just a straight forward overview of who Wolverine is and what he stands for, so there is little room for disagreement with what they said.

You can disagree that it is enough to make him number one but you can't really disagree with what was actually said... because it's all true. If you can find any fault in WIZARD's reasons for why Wolverine is number one, I'd love to hear them.

EDIT: And Bendis and Loeb have both done some terrific, terrific work...

Raoul
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I didn't ask you if you disagreed with the list, I asked if you could argue with the reasoning provided for Wolverine being number one. There is very little in the way of opinion in provided in WIZARDS reasoning. It is just a straight forward overview of who Wolverine is and what he stands for, so there is little room for disagreement with what they said.

You can disagree that it is enough to make him number one but you can't really disagree with what was actually said... because it's all true. If you can find any fault in WIZARD's reasons for why Wolverine is number one, I'd love to hear them.

why they love him, no, i can't argue with that at all, because as you said, its true... that he's #1, yes, i would disagree with that...



and these guys hype up the bad as much as the good, if not moreso...

bendis, imo hasnt been good since, what was it, powers?

loeb has done good in the past, but since his unfortunate circumstances came to pass, he hasn't been the same imo...

redhotrash
That list is definately not how I'd rate it. Hellboy and Constantine on the top 10? Are you kidding me? Also I could make a convincing argument as to why 2-4 should be ahead of Wolverine. Dont get me wrong, Logan belongs on the top 10, just I dont think he should be #1.

jdea
Originally posted by redhotrash
My issues with Wolverine has always been his over exposure and his own fanboy writers. Dont get me wrong, I like the character, I really do. I like his history, his origin, and all the reasonable stuff hes done in his career. But honestly he doesnt need to sleep with every heroine, he doesnt need to be scoring wins he should, he shouldnt be getting the powers of captain marvel or taking center stage of 7+ titles a month. But lets be fair here, Marvel has a goldmine with him, so why not push him as much as possible. Dont hate the character, hate the hype. I personally liked him best when he was the tough guy in the background. The one who didnt dominate every page but who you knew was there and knew he'd kick some ass when the time came. The team is called the X-Men, not Wolverine and Co.

I agree, and I've said this b4, Wolverine is great as the background character who when he does something it's awesome, not the lead guy and OMG yes the team is called the X-Men not Wolverine and the X-Men, you speak wisely couldn't agree with you more

redhotrash
lol, funny you mention that, new animated series is coming out called "Wolverine and the X-Men" ::yawn::

KMC's Superboy
i like wolvie

marwash22
Originally posted by KMC's Superboy
i like wolvie I stopped liking him when it became acceptable to call him Wolvie. jk. But he really is over-rated.

srankmissingnin
The problem is that character's like Superman, Batman and Spider-man have been pop culture icons long before any of us have been reading comics (or most of us at least), but Wolverine is just starting to achieve the same iconic status. Everyone is used to the staggering amounts of appearances the big three have but Wolverine having the same amount of appearances is relatively new. People just haven't gotten it through their heads that Wolverine is one of the top comic book / pop culture icons now since it s a relatively new development. In another 10 years it will all be common ground and everyone will be used to it like we are now when Batman, Superman and Spider-man are concerned.

jdea
Originally posted by Battlehammer
this thread cracks me up with it rediculousness. I sware my thoery correct and explains the creations of pointless and bitching threads like this.

spell check and grammer check would do you some good,

BTW will you create a more meaningful or better "toppiced" thread for us to deviate to?

Battlehammer
Originally posted by jdea
spell check and grammer check would do you some good,

BTW will you create a more meaningful or better "toppiced" thread for us to deviate to?
..........why bother on crap threads like this?



already did........... topic............and what a lame attempt to insult my intelligences.

starlock
Originally posted by jdea
spell check and grammer check would do you some good,

BTW will you create a more meaningful or better "toppiced" thread for us to deviate to?


Spell check.....your hilarious, you really think mispelled words in a comic thread is something to point out laughing

Arachnid1
Originally posted by Raoul
why they love him, no, i can't argue with that at all, because as you said, its true... that he's #1, yes, i would disagree with that...



and these guys hype up the bad as much as the good, if not moreso...

bendis, imo hasnt been good since, what was it, powers?

loeb has done good in the past, but since his unfortunate circumstances came to pass, he hasn't been the same imo... Meh. I'm with you. They have their reasons, but him being number 1? Nope. I disagree. He may make it into the top ten, or even the top 5, but he's no number 1.

Genosha
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The problem is that character's like Superman, Batman and Spider-man have been pop culture icons long before any of us have been reading comics (or most of us at least), but Wolverine is just starting to achieve the same iconic status. Everyone is used to the staggering amounts of appearances the big three have but Wolverine having the same amount of appearances is relatively new. People just haven't gotten it through their heads that Wolverine is one of the top comic book / pop culture icons now since it s a relatively new development. In another 10 years it will all be common ground and everyone will be used to it like we are now when Batman, Superman and Spider-man are concerned.

I'll conceed that to a point. I think I hinted at this before, but I think part of the resistance to logan comes from those of us who are old enough to remember when he was still something new and interesting.

Alot of us feel like he's being forced on us and recent writers are getting it 'wrong'.

There's a fine line between giving in to readers interest in a character by making him more prominent and shoving him down people's throats. Not to mention that trying to allow a character to grow and develope over time can alienate the readers who made him a success in the first place if he changes too drasticaly.

Personally I feel that way about Logan most of the time. I like the IDEA of him, but when he shows up in a book I'm reading, he ends up pissing me of about 50% of the time.

Deadpool could end up being a good example of this. He started out as a truely innovative and exciting villain. To give him more deapth writers gave him a concience.... It's a development that's been met with mixed feelings. Only time will tell if he'll loose all credibilty or if the diamond in the rough thing will play.

I'm cautiously hopeful, but I think I'm in the minority in that I like my heros so dark that you never know if they'll ever earn redemption.... I should stop here, I think I'm rambling.

Kazenji
Originally posted by redhotrash
That list is definately not how I'd rate it. Hellboy and Constantine on the top 10? Are you kidding me?

Hellboys a ****ing good character mad

socool8520
Originally posted by Genosha
From the perspective of a fictional character, who wouldn't want to work with Wolvie? He's excellent as the muscle, with brute strength, fast healing, and stellar fighting and tracking skills. His abilities and experience make him versatile enough to be stealthy or play the tank. That experience also affords him a confidence that many other X-men, despite being around a while, still lack. He knows what he is, pretty or not, and makes no apologies for it.

As a character he adds something to any team he's with, either as a grunt or a mentor.

Another reason writers like Logan, is the long and rich history that's been built up around him. There's alot of background there to draw on to give stories depth while there are enough gaps that it's easy for a new writer to connect a new villain or event to a current character.

There are a lot of practical reasons for him being over used....So how is it, as a non Wolvie fan, I always get stuck defending his prominence as being well deserved?

Because everyone else hates just forthe sake of hating. It's like that with any porpular character. After awhile, people will start dissing. It's cool that even as a non fan, you can still give unbiased answers.

ragesRemorse
I liked Wolverine when he was apart of the x-men and not the face of the x-men

Kazenji
Same here I've liked Wolverine when he was part of the x-men and also because of his Solo comic.

Hypester
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
I liked Wolverine when he was apart of the x-men and not the face of the x-men

bingo. Echo.

Nighty101
And what do the cheerleaders have to say about how Wolverine is so much like superman?
F-U-C-K word I'm not supposed to say F*** oh oh yeah F***
no seriously. DC HAS SUPERMAN INVINCIBLE. MARVEL DID THE SAME THING WITH LOGAN. MARVEL IS LOSING THEIR GRASP. WE FANS NEED TO TAKE AN EFFIN STAND!

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