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Those of the East are considered by many to be 'enlightened' compared with the 'Western' religious control-structures. This 'enlightenment' comes from the fact that the Eastern philosophies say everything is 'One' and that this 'world' is an illusion.

I say the same in terms of Oneness and the illusion, but after that we immediately part company. Most of the rest of it, I would suggest, is utter bollocks and every bit as controlling and misleading as the Christianity, Judaism and Islam over which the East claims spiritual superiority.

Everything may be 'One', but we are all unique expressions of the whole and that uniqueness is not designed to merge itself into some all-encompassing cocktail 'blob' of bland uniformity. This 'world' may be an illusion (like all the others) in terms of 'solid' physicality, but where the hell does it say that because it's an illusion you have to give your mind away to some befrocked bloody 'guru'??

I must have missed that clause in the contract: 'If you ever feel the need to free your mind, find a guru, give it to him, and henceforth believe that your mind is free even though you don't have one anymore'.

Damn the small print.

I have received many communications over the years from former members of the Eastern religions, sects and cults on which the 'New Age' is largely based. They have described the blatant manipulation and mind control designed to make them give away their own right to thought and action - 'Tell me what to do, guru, master, psychic, "living god on earth".'

'I am the 'embodiment of Kali', 'I am the incarnation of Krishna', 'I am the Living God on Earth'. No, you are either deluded or a scam artist, mate. We are ALL the sons and daughters of 'God', aspects of the Infinite One, and it is time we remembered that.

We are certainly not going to be helped in this awakening, or remembering, by worshipping gurus and masters who put themselves above everyone else, thus perpetuating the hierarchical nature of religion and the society that it represents - the very hierarchical structure that instigated the mass perception of being 'powerless little me'.

What utter crap it all is.

'Humans' - infinite consciousness incarnate - have allowed themselves to become so detached from their true all-powerful self that they still need to find a mummy or daddy long after their hormones have launched them into chemical and genetic adulthood.

So many remain mental, emotional and spiritual babies looking for guidance from 'they who know best'. It is extraordinary to see 'disciples' leave one sect when the guru has been exposed as a fraud only to find another of similar nature because the need in them to worship and be led is so deep and ingrained.

The why is simple to explain: You don't become 'unpossessed' just by leaving the guru who arranged your possession.
What is a common theme in all this? The desire on the part of the follower or devotee to find a 'saviour' to tell them what to do and think. It's the same in all the religions, sects and cults, and true, too, of the relationship between most people and governments and the authorities in general.

'Humans' - infinite consciousness incarnate - have allowed themselves to become so detached from their true all-powerful self that they still need to find a mummy or daddy long after their hormones have launched them into chemical and genetic adulthood.

So many remain mental, emotional and spiritual babies looking for guidance from 'they who know best'. It is extraordinary to see 'disciples' leave one sect when the guru has been exposed as a fraud only to find another of similar nature because the need in them to worship and be led is so deep and ingrained.

The why is simple to explain: You don't become 'unpossessed' just by leaving the guru who arranged your possession.

How to avoid this possession is straightforward, also. Don't worship anything or anyone, for you are already infinite consciousness and so there is nothing to worship. Respect others and what they do by all means, but give the worship and devotion stuff a real large smack of the elbow.


http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/08/April/013.jpg

Freedom - no guru or religion necessary

Anyone who seeks worship or religious devotion is suspect from the get-go, or gecko, from where I am sitting. Why does anyone want others to 'look up' to them? Because there is either a scam in play or they are so emotionally insecure that they need the worship of others to overcome their inability to find their security within - the very inner-security that they say their followers can find through them!

You often see this trait in 'celebrities' who crave adoration for the same reason, but it's an emotional disease of many 'gurus' and 'holy men', too.

To listen to what these people are saying and picking and choosing what feels right or otherwise is one thing. But worship and devotion is quite another. It's not about finding 'enlightenment', it's just a very powerful form of mind control.

How ironic that the mainstream media often refers to me as a 'guru' as they look at everything through their pigeon-hole minds, and they ask how many 'followers' I have. My answer is always the same: 'None, I hope. If I have one follower or devotee then they have not been listening'.

If people want to respect what I am doing, that's great, thank-you, much appreciated. But 'followers' 'devotees', 'believers'? Give me a bloody break. Here's some information, make of it what you will, end of story.

The world is drowning in a tidal wave of followers and followed. Enough. We need to take our minds back and stop our energy being vampired by those who seek to enslave us.

That means taking OUR minds back - not swapping them for someone else's.

small bit taken from the david icke newsletter

Cool pic.

Much of Eastern thought is misrepresented in that article as presenting it as entirely a hierarchical structure of followers and leaders. All one needs is a copy of the Tao Te Ching or the precepts and tenets of Buddhism to practice and learn from its teachings...gurus and masters don't enter into the equation, and if they are, generally just guide someone rather than command them. By that definition of leader/follower, we should never take someone's advice or go to school. I'm sure most who follow an eastern path can support this with anecdotal evidence as well.

Being one's own self, and determining one's path and beliefs rather than being given them by someone else is a noble goal. So in so far as the pasted article espouses such thinking, I agree. But not much else.

I quite like religious views, I just don't like the reasons the followers give.

David Icke is a guru by default.

I actually read the whole thing.

I sometimes have a distaste for religion in general so I can sympathize with his perspective. Sometimes, I wish there was no such thing as religion in anyway shape or form and the word "atheism" would not longer be used. (We wouldn't have a concept of "theism" so, therefore, we wouldn't have a concept such as "atheism".)



Originally posted by Tex
David Icke is a guru by default.

Nice "Zoolander" sig.

My wife and I met at a Zoolander party.

Even this?Originally posted by Deano
Don't worship anything

This whole article is one big strawman argument.

religion is just stories that orignated from the stars, this is true for all of them, the only reason people today believe jesus is real is because the government at the time relised wat a powerful tool it is, and look how well it worked for over 1600 years the government had total control over its people and christanity was law

Originally posted by King Kandy
This whole article is one big strawman argument.

David Iche has some intersting points, I'll say that.

As for god..........I do believe we should not worship anything....why should we? Would a grand thing get angry with us? Oh, yeah, that is what the imaginary hell is fore.

Deano, it is obvious you don't have any real understanding of the concept of oneness.

lol, anything wrong with religion is 5x worse with icke

.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Deano, it is obvious you don't have any real understanding of the concept of oneness.

By oneness, you mean al-Tahwid?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
By oneness, you mean al-Tahwid?

Sorry, but I don't know what al-Tahwid is.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sorry, but I don't know what al-Tahwid is.

The Muslim concept of the oneness of God. It's the the opposite of the Christian Trinity.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The Muslim concept of the oneness of God. It's the the opposite of the Christian Trinity.

My knowledge of Islam is very limited.

Oneness like in a circle. Come on, it's a circle.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Deano, it is obvious you don't have any real understanding of the concept of oneness.

and you obviously do? teach me oh guru

Originally posted by Deano
and you obviously do? teach me oh guru

Problem there deano, is that if you never listen to anyone else's ideas (some of which can be well thought out) and you only come up with your own ideas, chances are most of yours are going to be very, very wrong. Listening to an intellectual position isn't the same as accepting it. You have the skeptical part down pat, which is good because being critical is good. But you've taken it a step too far into cynicism where apparently any thought that isn't original is a blasphemy against individuality.

Skakya isn't pretending to be a master....just someone with a different viewpoint.

Yeah! Skakya's too busy pretending to be human! Everyone knows he's a shape shifting reptilian from Alpha Draconis!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Problem there deano, is that if you never listen to anyone else's ideas (some of which can be well thought out) and you only come up with your own ideas, chances are most of yours are going to be very, very wrong. Listening to an intellectual position isn't the same as accepting it. You have the skeptical part down pat, which is good because being critical is good. But you've taken it a step too far into cynicism where apparently any thought that isn't original is a blasphemy against individuality.

Skakya isn't pretending to be a master....just someone with a different viewpoint.

i understand. but i do listen to other peoples opinions when they are made up of some kind of common sense. shak didnt explain is views on oneness . he just made a comment which suggested he knew it all

Originally posted by Deano
and you obviously do? teach me oh guru

First, what does oneness have to do with worship?


Originally posted by Tex
Yeah! Skakya's too busy pretending to be human! Everyone knows he's a shape shifting reptilian from Alpha Draconis!

Hey! that is not true... no matter what they say...shifty

Deano has a point. While I'm not always one to say that people should copy and paste explainations for their ideologies, as it tends to represent that the person doesn't know how to digest and then express them in their own words; but you did say that you don't believe in reincarnation but use the term because others don't understand what you mean when you say Simultaneous Incarnation. Don't you think it's important to say what you mean and mean what you say?

I think part of it is that we've all elucidated our beliefs at least 1-2 times on this forum, but not everyone's read it all. So we get lax occasionally and summarize, rather than spelling it all out every time. Happens to me frequently, and shakya's more active on this forum than I am.

So you have a point, but I think we have to realize that it's easy to infer things in typed language that aren't actually there. I highly doubt shakya wanted to come off as elitist or smug, though that's what deano assumed it was. A respectful request for clarification goes a long way rather than attempting to take the moral high ground based on an ambiguous inference.

Originally posted by Devil King
Deano has a point. While I'm not always one to say that people should copy and paste explainations for their ideologies, as it tends to represent that the person doesn't know how to digest and then express them in their own words; but you did say that you don't believe in reincarnation but use the term because others don't understand what you mean when you say Simultaneous Incarnation. Don't you think it's important to say what you mean and mean what you say?

Yes, I wish I could. But I would then sound like Deb.

I choose to use expedient means. I've spent a lot of time trying to internalize concepts that are difficult to understand, and there is a lot that I am still learning. Sometimes you learn by making mistakes.

Do you understand Simultaneous Incarnation? It's just another way of looking at reincarnation. To us flatlanders, reincarnation and Simultaneous Incarnation look the same.

Deb has a point, at least she tries. So what if it's over everyones head.

I swear to drunk, I'm not god.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
First, what does oneness have to do with worship?




Hey! that is not true... no matter what they say...shifty

it has nothing to do with oneness

Originally posted by Deano
it has nothing to do with oneness

The statements you have made in this thread (at the beginning) are true to a point, but you fall off the deep end by grouping all religions into on bucket.

You have put con artists in with the master, disciple relationship. Sure there are a lot of con artists out there, but they are not restricted to religion. There are a lot of books about aliens and what not, that are just as evil in their outcome as what you have claimed above. However, we cannot always do everything by ourselves. It is not in our nature. We need other people. The master, disciple relationship is a very important part of growth. Without it many will be lot, and devote their time to silliness.

In the proper master, disciple relationship it is the master that serves the disciple, not the other way around. What you are suggesting is like saying we don't need teacher in schools. We will simply place the books on the desks and let the students do as they please.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, I wish I could. But I would then sound like Deb.

I choose to use expedient means. I've spent a lot of time trying to internalize concepts that are difficult to understand, and there is a lot that I am still learning. Sometimes you learn by making mistakes.

Do you understand Simultaneous Incarnation? It's just another way of looking at reincarnation. To us flatlanders, reincarnation and Simultaneous Incarnation look the same.

No, I don't understand it. This is why I think that if you do and it's something to which you ascribe, it would benefit us all if you just explained what you meant, rather than substituting words to make it easier.

Originally posted by Devil King
No, I don't understand it. This is why I think that if you do and it's something to which you ascribe, it would benefit us all if you just explained what you meant, rather than substituting words to make it easier.

What are you talking about and what does it have to do with this thread?

If you really, must know, then send me money.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What are you talking about and what does it have to do with this thread?

If you really, must know, then send me money.

I'm saying that you said you use the term reincarnation because most people don't know what Simultaneous Incarnation is. I am one of those people who don't know what it is. I think others might benefit from an explaination. So, I'm saying why don't you explain it to us.

Originally posted by Devil King
I'm saying that you said you use the term reincarnation because most people don't know what Simultaneous Incarnation is. I am one of those people who don't know what it is. I think others might benefit from an explaination. So, I'm saying why don't you explain it to us.

I think I did that when I first started posting here on the forum, and no one understood what I was talking about. I don't want to waist my time.

Okay.

But it makes it clearer to classify terms used.

Must I pick up the torch and run? LOL

Originally posted by Deja~vu
But it makes it clearer to classify terms used.

Must I pick up the torch and run? LOL

She's got the torch! Jump her!

Okay. I'm cool with that. ..I think.

Let's give all our own terms for "oneness."

Me first.


Nothing is excluded from what is seen or unseen.

Don't worship. Instead try to live a life that brings happiness to the people around you.

Worship Love

Originally posted by Mr. Love
Worship Love

But worshipping love leads to perversion.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But worshipping love leads to perversion.

What is perversion except a label?

Originally posted by Mr. Love
What is perversion except a label?

I don't understand the question.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't understand the question.

Who is to decide what is and what is not perverted? Perversion is merely a label decided upon by men.

Originally posted by Mr. Love
Who is to decide what is and what is not perverted? Perversion is merely a label decided upon by men.

You just answered you own question. We are the ones who decide.

Originally posted by Deano
Those of the East are considered by many to be 'enlightened' compared with the 'Western' religious control-structures. This 'enlightenment' comes from the fact that the Eastern philosophies say everything is 'One' and that this 'world' is an illusion.

I say the same in terms of Oneness and the illusion, but after that we immediately part company. Most of the rest of it, I would suggest, is utter bollocks and every bit as controlling and misleading as the Christianity, Judaism and Islam over which the East claims spiritual superiority.

Everything may be 'One', but we are all unique expressions of the whole and that uniqueness is not designed to merge itself into some all-encompassing cocktail 'blob' of bland uniformity. This 'world' may be an illusion (like all the others) in terms of 'solid' physicality, but where the hell does it say that because it's an illusion you have to give your mind away to some befrocked bloody 'guru'??

I must have missed that clause in the contract: 'If you ever feel the need to free your mind, find a guru, give it to him, and henceforth believe that your mind is free even though you don't have one anymore'.

Damn the small print.

I have received many communications over the years from former members of the Eastern religions, sects and cults on which the 'New Age' is largely based. They have described the blatant manipulation and mind control designed to make them give away their own right to thought and action - 'Tell me what to do, guru, master, psychic, "living god on earth".'

'I am the 'embodiment of Kali', 'I am the incarnation of Krishna', 'I am the Living God on Earth'. No, you are either deluded or a scam artist, mate. We are ALL the sons and daughters of 'God', aspects of the Infinite One, and it is time we remembered that.

We are certainly not going to be helped in this awakening, or remembering, by worshipping gurus and masters who put themselves above everyone else, thus perpetuating the hierarchical nature of religion and the society that it represents - the very hierarchical structure that instigated the mass perception of being 'powerless little me'.

What utter crap it all is.

'Humans' - infinite consciousness incarnate - have allowed themselves to become so detached from their true all-powerful self that they still need to find a mummy or daddy long after their hormones have launched them into chemical and genetic adulthood.

So many remain mental, emotional and spiritual babies looking for guidance from 'they who know best'. It is extraordinary to see 'disciples' leave one sect when the guru has been exposed as a fraud only to find another of similar nature because the need in them to worship and be led is so deep and ingrained.

The why is simple to explain: You don't become 'unpossessed' just by leaving the guru who arranged your possession.
What is a common theme in all this? The desire on the part of the follower or devotee to find a 'saviour' to tell them what to do and think. It's the same in all the religions, sects and cults, and true, too, of the relationship between most people and governments and the authorities in general.

'Humans' - infinite consciousness incarnate - have allowed themselves to become so detached from their true all-powerful self that they still need to find a mummy or daddy long after their hormones have launched them into chemical and genetic adulthood.

So many remain mental, emotional and spiritual babies looking for guidance from 'they who know best'. It is extraordinary to see 'disciples' leave one sect when the guru has been exposed as a fraud only to find another of similar nature because the need in them to worship and be led is so deep and ingrained.

The why is simple to explain: You don't become 'unpossessed' just by leaving the guru who arranged your possession.

How to avoid this possession is straightforward, also. Don't worship anything or anyone, for you are already infinite consciousness and so there is nothing to worship. Respect others and what they do by all means, but give the worship and devotion stuff a real large smack of the elbow.


http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/08/April/013.jpg

Freedom - no guru or religion necessary

Anyone who seeks worship or religious devotion is suspect from the get-go, or gecko, from where I am sitting. Why does anyone want others to 'look up' to them? Because there is either a scam in play or they are so emotionally insecure that they need the worship of others to overcome their inability to find their security within - the very inner-security that they say their followers can find through them!

You often see this trait in 'celebrities' who crave adoration for the same reason, but it's an emotional disease of many 'gurus' and 'holy men', too.

To listen to what these people are saying and picking and choosing what feels right or otherwise is one thing. But worship and devotion is quite another. It's not about finding 'enlightenment', it's just a very powerful form of mind control.

How ironic that the mainstream media often refers to me as a 'guru' as they look at everything through their pigeon-hole minds, and they ask how many 'followers' I have. My answer is always the same: 'None, I hope. If I have one follower or devotee then they have not been listening'.

If people want to respect what I am doing, that's great, thank-you, much appreciated. But 'followers' 'devotees', 'believers'? Give me a bloody break. Here's some information, make of it what you will, end of story.

The world is drowning in a tidal wave of followers and followed. Enough. We need to take our minds back and stop our energy being vampired by those who seek to enslave us.

That means taking OUR minds back - not swapping them for someone else's.

small bit taken from the david icke newsletter

is that a reptillian in the picture?

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
is that a reptillian in the picture?

Don't worry it's trapped in the lower 4th dimension because it cannot connect with the vibrational wavelengths of love. Then again if it jams a hand into a white guy's ass it can possess him.

I love Icke.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
is that a reptillian in the picture?

Probably. The symbolism of the pic is a bit heavy-handed. The tip of the Illuminati pyramid extends into the reptilians, and it in turn extends downward into society, thus controlling it, as does the hand of the reptilians. Only man's consciousness can transcend such influences, as our minds and its influence are depicted above the reptilian and Illuminati influence. We also seem to be associated with the sun in the pic, which isn't surprising; the sun acts as a central symbol for transcendence in a number of mythological traditions.