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Psycho Gundam




vs


Symmetric Chaos

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Karnak - 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnak_%28comics%29
Flash - 6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_West
Superman - 6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman
Amaglam v2 - 6
Batman - 1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman
Prep Time v2 - 2
(1 hour in a scientific laborotory or mystic sanctum)
Knowledge of the Opposition v2 - 2
(list of opponent's abilities but not the level)

Karnak (Mind)
(MA, Skills, Find Flaws etc)
Superman (Body)
(Strength, HV, arctic breath, durability, flight, T-Vo, dashing good looks, etc)
Flash
(Superspeed, Speedforce abilities . . . dun dun dun dun!)

Amalgam Name: Pete


2 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 25

Area

edit

Originally posted by psycho gundam
I guess I'm first then.

FYI-
since juggernaut fights primarily with his hands, the gems are safely secure on his person (in an unknown location) so that he can freely use his arms.

juggernaut as the match starts activates his personal force field to beyond full power(power gem).

and for this fight I will have juggernaut simply be like an uncontrollable freight train that is radiating energies like a uranium-238 reactor at critical mass. teleporting wildly and lashing out violently at any thing that moves with planet busting force.

and i have a weird feeling the sim is going to try to remove the gems from juggernaut in the manner onslaught did the gem of cyttorak.
there are several major problems with that;

1) the gem of cyttorak wasn't inside the juggernaut to begin with so, all he did was puncture the CISSY ass juggernauut is that story.
2) onslaught is around hulk level in strength so it was impossible for him to rupture his skin/clothing with his two fingers only, asinine.
3) CIS is off so juggernaut's personal force field goes up instantaneously beyond full power, without question.
4)the powergem in this case makes my body impervious to harm anyway.


and the personal force field is instantaneous and totally impregnable
so forget rupturing it. and the other fights is took part in had the juggernaut lower his field to attack, that is not the case so forget that also.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7236/juggernautunleashedfa0.th.jpg

edit

Totally forgot about the match.

Blitz. Take gems. Brain fry.

Cain = Stupid
Pete = Not Stupid

End game.

wow...thats a short plan

and a losing plan

Originally posted by psycho gundam
since juggernaut fights primarily with his hands, the gems are safely secure on his person (in an unknown location) so that he can freely use his arms.

Forehead. That's the only place they have ever been held except for the hands.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
juggernaut as the match starts activates his personal force field to beyond full power(power gem).

Why? That's not like Cain at all. He hardly uses the forcefield. If you bought him a brain I'd believe this tactic but you didn't so I see no reason to worry.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
and for this fight I will have juggernaut simply be like an uncontrollable freight train that is radiating energies like a uranium-238 reactor at critical mass. teleporting wildly and lashing out violently at any thing that moves with planet busting force.

Radiating energy? Never seen that.

Teleporting wildly will prevent Cain from targeting anything. Planet busting strength means nothing to Superman with a SpeedForce suit adding a bit of durability.

Not to mention Pete can vibrate through your poorly planned attacks.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
and i have a weird feeling the sim is going to try to remove the gems from juggernaut in the manner onslaught did the gem of cyttorak.

Not at all. I'm just going to walk over a take them away.

Very casual.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
1) the gem of cyttorak wasn't inside the juggernaut to begin with so, all he did was puncture the CISSY ass juggernauut is that story.
2) onslaught is around hulk level in strength so it was impossible for him to rupture his skin/clothing with his two fingers only, asinine.
3) CIS is off so juggernaut's personal force field goes up instantaneously beyond full power, without question.
4)the powergem in this case makes my body impervious to harm anyway.

1) The InfinityGems aren't inside of Cain. They're either in his hands or on forehead.

2) I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

3) CIS isn't off. Character personality is taken into account here.

4) Good think hurting your body isn't integral to my plan. I just need to slow you down so I can make a case that you'll be in one place long enough to get mind raped.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
and the personal force field is instantaneous and totally impregnable/B]

Instanteous to some people. Not to Flash. Thoughts are really very slow:

Moves so fast light stands still:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/flash2zj8.jpg

Moves between cities during the time it takes to think a single word:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FasterThanThought.jpg

Pete might as well have hours while Cain forms the thought to activate the field. Then again Juggy won't do that anyway because it's completely unlike him.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
wow...thats a short plan

It's all I need once psycho's plan gets torn apart.

Now be quiet. I has pronz to organimify.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
and a losing plan

No offense meant, but you didn't exactly rebut it just now.

drax the destroyer kept his gem in his stomach and pip kept his in between his toes, so thats false.

your plan has very little plausibility, wresting the gems off of juggernaut is suicide.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
drax the destroyer kept his gem in his stomach and pip kept his in between his toes, so thats false.

Those took concious decisions. The standard position in on the forehead. If you want Cain to pop the gems in his mouth more power to you but then they're just hanging in space for Pete to take.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
your plan has very little plausibility, wresting the gems off of juggernaut is suicide.

Juggy won't even be moving relative to Pete. I can't imagine what sort of danger he might be in.

Originally posted by Soljer
No offense meant, but you didn't exactly rebut it just now. none taken, my plan is solely winning by attrition thats why he wants to speedblitz juggernaut, but what good will that do?


all this fight is
the death of supermanII: the failed kamikaze mission

Originally posted by psycho gundam
none taken, my plan is solely winning by attrition thats why he wants to speedblitz juggernaut, but what good will that do?


all this fight is
the death of supermanII: the failed kamikaze mission

Did you just compare DoS Superman to current Superman with Flash level speed and a brilliant tactical mind?

lulz

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Those took concious decisions. The standard position in on the forehead. If you want Cain to pop the gems in his mouth more power to you but then they're just hanging in space for Pete to take.



Juggy won't even be moving relative to Pete. I can't imagine what sort of danger he might be in.

ans question 1) if I even decided to place them on his brow(which i didnt)juggernaut still is wearing a helmet, a skullcap, and both are beneath his field, good luck getting them.

ans question 2) since i can control the position of all matter (sure juggernaut isn't reed richards but he is smarter than pip) and have the power infinite, its fare to say you have something to be worried about.

your speedblitz gets stopped in its tracks:

Originally posted by psycho gundam
ans question 1) if I even decided to place them on his brow(which i didnt)juggernaut still is wearing a helmet, a skullcap, and both are beneath his field, good luck getting them.

I'm not waiting for Cain to put up the field. If it becomes too much trouble Pete will back off and brain fry Cain:

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashBrainScramble.jpg

Originally posted by psycho gundam
ans question 2) since i can control the position of all matter (sure juggernaut isn't reed richards but he is smarter than pip) and have the power infinite, its fare to say you have something to be worried about.

We can't be talking about the same person.

Cain once watched the Cytorrak's gem open an interdimensional portal and then moments later decided to slug it out with Hulk. The idea that Cain would ever consider taking control of space is laughable. This is the man who's entire thought process in a fight consist of "I'M UNSTOPPABLE!!!!!1one!!1!!!eleventyten!!!!!"

Assuming Pete gives him the chance to do anything Cain is not going to suddenly use the SpaceGem to it's full potential after like . . . two seconds of having it.



I would also like to point out that Cain simply possesses the gems. He is not amalgamated with them so there is no inherent knowledge of how they are used or even what they do.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
your speedblitz gets stopped in its tracks:

Like I've been saying Cain won't have the chance to raise that field.

you make it sound like your attacks are enough to put him down, which they are not. all you have is superman with flash's speed nothing more.

juggernaut is only susceptible to mystic attacks and TRUE telepathic assault, and both have to be at full intensity to slow him down even.

he doesn't require any sustinance other than his mystical energies, even his body is second to that(see below pic)

you possess no mystical might or true telepathic power so you cant even get him to the condition below, and even that can't stop him

+ juggernaut is a skilled mage in his own right. magic + superman is only beneficial for me.

him punking nightmare:

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you make it sound like your attacks are enough to put him down, which they are not. all you have is superman with flash's speed nothing more.

juggernaut is only susceptible to mystic attacks and TRUE telepathic assault, and both have to be at full intensity to slow him down even.

he doesn't require any sustinance other than his mystical energies, even his body is second to that(see below pic)

you possess no mystical might or true telepathic power so you cant even get him to the condition below, and even that can't stop him

Superman has T-vo. Clark doesn't use it but Karnak (Pete's mind) always presses any advantage he has that is very much open to me. Pete had Wallys powers so he can vibrate part of Juggy's brain and basically shut it down. Or he could increase the speed of electrons in part of Juggy's brain and overload it completely.

You need to provide some sort of evidence that Cain can resist those.

you are not a magical being nor a psychic one, so you can't permeate his flesh at all, stop insinuating it will work without those powers.

and the forcefield will be up so forget about it.

wrong scan in the last one, this is what i wanted to post.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you are not a magical being nor a psychic one, so you can't permeate his flesh at all, stop insinuating it will work without those powers.

You have yet to provide any sort of evidence that my brain fry will not work. The skull cap will of course be removed during the initial blitz and if you did get the shield up it wouldn't stop T-vo or Flash's ability to manipulate KE.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
and the forcefield will be up so forget about it.

Why is Pete going to wait for the field to go up? Why is Cain going to use it when he hardly ever does so?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
wrong scan in the last one, this is what i wanted to post.

If only you could show Cain remembering any of that. But you can't and he won't use that magic because of his obsession why physical combat.

Even if he did remember or did want to Pete simply won't give him a chance.

your "brain fry" is not telepathic nor magical, it can't even penetrate his skull....plus juggy can teleport..

Originally posted by psycho gundam
your "brain fry" is not telepathic nor magical, it can't even penetrate his skull....

You haven't proven that the attack must be teleapthic or magical to screw up his brain in the way I describe.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
plus juggy can teleport..

I've proven it's not in his personality and that he won't know how and that Pete is too fast for him to form the needed thought.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You haven't proven that the attack must be teleapthic or magical to screw up his brain in the way I describe.



I've proven it's not in his personality and that he won't know how and that Pete is too fast for him to form the needed thought.

c'mon now, you are questioning the character juggernaut is now.
magic or psychic intrusion are the only means of harming him and they must be the most potent of attacks.

space gem teleportation is enequivalently instantaneous and consciously/subconsciously controlled, if pip could do it, cain marko definitely can.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
c'mon now, you are questioning the character juggernaut is now.
magic or psychic intrusion are the only means of harming him and they must be the most potent of attacks.

Phasing out part of his brain so that it stops working is very potent. I've tried it (they don't let me have small animals at the home anymore)

Originally posted by psycho gundam
space gem teleportation is enequivalently instantaneous and consciously/subconsciously controlled, if pip could do it, cain marko definitely can.

Can but won't.

pets not being allowed near you is something you shouldn't tell the public lol (had to, you gift wrapped it for me)

you can only say- "can but never possessed the space gem before to prove so" right? cus saying "won't" is just silly.

I know you can put forth more effort than this.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Forehead. That's the only place they have ever been held except for the hands.



Actually, there have been more places than the head or hands. In my casual match against Psycho Gundam, I picked Galactus purposfully because he would recognize the gems immediately. None of the any of the characters in your amalgam have ever interacted with the gems so my question to you is how would "Pete" suddenly recognize and take the Infinity Gems?

Originally posted by Evangel94
Actually, there have been more places than the head or hands. Shh... ermm

I know you want to point stuff out but has it been beyoned the 10 hour mark yet?

Originally posted by Evangel94
I know you can put forth more effort than this.




Actually, there have been more places than the head or hands. In my casual match against Psycho Gundam, I picked Galactus purposfully because he would recognize the gems immediately. None of the any of the characters in your amalgam have ever interacted with the gems so my question to you is how would "Pete" suddenly recognize and take the Infinity Gems?

So, is anyone allowed to debate for the participants, or just you?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
pets not being allowed near you is something you shouldn't tell the public lol (had to, you gift wrapped it for me)

You need to take life less seriously.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you can only say- "can but never possessed the space gem before to prove so" right? cus saying "won't" is just silly.

Saying he will use it like you claim is silly.

But watch as I throw evidence into the fray!

It goes totally against the personality of the man who's entire psyche is based around "Nobody stops the Juggernaut!"

Originally posted by Evangel94
I know you can put forth more effort than this.

I had suddenly realized the thread was up. I didn't want people to think I was delaying in order to look at Psycho's prep. There has been no deviation from that outline. My effort has been showing in the rest of this match.

Originally posted by Evangel94
my question to you is how would "Pete" suddenly recognize and take the Infinity Gems?

Because I bought knowledge of the opposition?

Originally posted by Soljer
So, is anyone allowed to debate for the participants, or just you?

If you have any have to ask any meaningful questions that could influence your vote, then go ahead and ask the participants. However, refrain from outright arguing with them, and limit it to informational questions only.

Also, voting is still not allowed during the debate period.

If all else fails (because I mean it's not like I have x-ray vision to use or something ) in finding the gems I can use this little power of Karnak's to divine their location:
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8366/amazingadv197100914ke3.jpg

Again:
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2523/amazingadventures0303gb1.jpg

Yet again:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Inhumans-v1-010-14.jpg

again, juggernaut displayed the knowhow to battle a dimensional ruler
and used spells to combat him, the manipulation of the space gem for teleportation is not that difficult.

the hard feats to pull of with the gems are:

-willing the distance between objects absolute, as in willing the possessor of the gem and his/her opponent a fixed distance from one another, no matter the effort to of the attacker.

-rearranging the position of matter on a universal scale, as thanos did.

-teleporting abstracts permanently

and so on.all i require is the simple teleportation of juggernaut and superman/flash or batman, again as pip the troll did.

Originally posted by Evangel94
If you have any have to ask any meaningful questions that could influence your vote, then go ahead and ask the participants. However, refrain from outright arguing with them, and limit it to informational questions only.

Also, voting is still not allowed during the debate period. Yeah don't make delibrate statments of fact like this:

Originally posted by Evangel94
Actually, there have been more places than the head or hands.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If all else fails (because I mean it's not like I have x-ray vision to use or something ) in finding the gems I can use this little power of Karnak's to divine their location:
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8366/amazingadv197100914ke3.jpg

Again:
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2523/amazingadventures0303gb1.jpg

Yet again:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Inhumans-v1-010-14.jpg but you can't take them no matter what tactic is available to you.

the force field further negates your attempts, though your lack of mystical might is enough to deny you.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
again, juggernaut displayed the knowhow to battle a dimensional ruler
and used spells to combat him

Once. In a long forgotten comic that was never brought up or slightly alluded to ever again. Either he doesn't know how or he doesn't want to use the magic any more. If you put a more savvy mind behind the wheels there might be a case but Cain loves to hit stuff way too much to use magic.

Again unless reality itself unravels there's no way that Juggy will possess the gems long enough to use them at all. The helmet comes off in the same instant and T-vo (which Karnak would use even if Supes wouldn't) or Flash's brain fry KO Juggy for ten minutes.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the manipulation of the space gem for teleportation is not that difficult.

It's very simple but a man who loves slugging it out with people is hardly going to teleport around wildly until he bumps into something.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah don't make delibrate statments of fact like this:

They both knew about the gems being in different areas since the first page, so I am only already restating whats been covered already. I am not delivering new information for them to use.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
drax the destroyer kept his gem in his stomach and pip kept his in between his toes, so thats false.

your plan has very little plausibility, wresting the gems off of juggernaut is suicide.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Those took concious decisions. The standard position in on the forehead. If you want Cain to pop the gems in his mouth more power to you but then they're just hanging in space for Pete to take.

Juggy won't even be moving relative to Pete. I can't imagine what sort of danger he might be in.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
but you can't take them no matter what tactic is available to you.

the force field further negates your attempts, though your lack of mystical might is enough to deny you.

The forcefield that you have to consciously activate?

OK people let's get serious. Flash is far far far too fast for Cain to get a chance to think before he gets blitzed.

Between cities in the space of a thought:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FasterThanThought.jpg

Disassembles a complex suit before the wearer can react (the helmet and gems will be much easier to remove):
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashTakeApart2.jpg

Searches thousands of people in the time it takes a beam of light to travel less than five feet:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/flash1hu5.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/flash2zj8.jpg

Tears into WonderWoman:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashBlitx.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashBlitx2.jpg

Moves so fast he looks like an army:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashArmy.jpg


There's really no conceivable way for Cain to react in the slightest way before Pete reaches him and takes away the gems and helmet leaving him totally vulnerable to BrainFry or T-vo.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Once. In a long forgotten comic that was never brought up or slightly alluded to ever again. Either he doesn't know how or he doesn't want to use the magic any more. If you put a more savvy mind behind the wheels there might be a case but Cain loves to hit stuff way too much to use magic.

Again unless reality itself unravels there's no way that Juggy will possess the gems long enough to use them at all. The helmet comes off in the same instant and T-vo (which Karnak would use even if Supes wouldn't) or Flash's brain fry KO Juggy for ten minutes.



It's very simple but a man who loves slugging it out with people is hardly going to teleport around wildly until he bumps into something. this brain fry thing(though useless) seems to be less likely to turn up in a comic than juggernaut's magic abilities.

it won't work on juggernaut, cause it can't penetrate/harm him and his force field will slow supes down before he tries it.

Originally posted by Evangel94
They both knew about the gems being in different areas since the first page, so I am only already restating whats been covered already. Just backing up your words with an example boss lady.

Originally posted by Evangel94
However, refrain from outright arguing with them, and limit it to informational questions only.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The forcefield that you have to consciously activate?

OK people let's get serious. Flash is far far far too fast for Cain to get a chance to think before he gets blitzed.

Between cities in the space of a thought:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FasterThanThought.jpg

Disassembles a complex suit before the wearer can react (the helmet and gems will be much easier to remove):
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashTakeApart2.jpg

Searches thousands of people in the time it takes a beam of light to travel less than five feet:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/flash1hu5.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/flash2zj8.jpg

Tears into WonderWoman:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashBlitx.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashBlitx2.jpg

Moves so fast he looks like an army:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashArmy.jpg


There's really no conceivable way for Cain to react in the slightest way before Pete reaches him and takes away the gems and helmet leaving him totally vulnerable to BrainFry or T-vo.
juggernaut doesn't know who he is facing, that is a perfect reason to activate his force field. the gem will back it as it backed his invulnerability even before the fight started.
and again, your tactics are deflected/slowed to a crawl.

you can't penetrate him, noone can.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Just backing up your words with an example boss lady.





I see what your saying, and I agree. However, they already knew that little fact about the Infinity Gems, and restating what's been said already doesn't change anything. Plus, It related to my question in the sense of how is Superman going to take the gems if they aren't in the standard visible areas. Symmetric Chaos responded by posting scans of Karnak's ability to sense items, so I got my answer.

If I deliver new information that isn't common knowledge, then feel free to police me anytime.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
juggernaut doesn't know who he is facing, that is a perfect reason to activate his force field. the gem will back it as it backed his invulnerability even before the fight started.
and again, your tactics are deflected/slowed to a crawl.

you can't penetrate him, noone can.

You have no prep and thus no chance to activate the field. Even if you did, Flash with Superman's mass will be ridiculously more difficult to stop than Thor's hammer (which the field barely managed to stop). Besides people slower and weaker than Pete have taken Juggy's hat off.

Originally posted by Evangel94
I see what your saying, and I agree. However, they already knew that little fact about the Infinity Gems, and restating what's been said doesn't change already anything. Plus, It related to my question in the sense of how is Superman going to take the gems if they aren't in the standard visible areas. Symmetric Chaos responded by posting scans of Karnak's ability to sense items, so I got my answer.

If I deliver new information that isn't common knowledge, then feel free to police me anytime. So it's okay to repeat one of the contender's arguments, and that doesn't qualify as debating?

I mean its not new information after all.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
this brain fry thing(though useless) seems to be less likely to turn up in a comic than juggernaut's magic abilities.

it won't work on juggernaut, cause it can't penetrate/harm him and his force field will slow supes down before he tries it.

He did it to that giant.
He did it to a computer system.
He did it to Alchemist.
He did sped up his own thoughts until it overloaded Thinker (the same could be done to anyone else overloading them from the inside)
He did mentioned he could do it to his own brain in order to kill bacteria.
Prometheus noted that Flash's brain operates at a different frequency than normal people's (proving he can alter the speed of electron in his own brain)

Besides I'm not arguing what would happen in a comic. I'm talking about personality. Karnak presses ever advantage he uses his speed, his strength and his accuracy to their best every time he appears. Pete will have that same personality applied to all of the powers at his disposal.

On the other hand Cain simply doesn't use magic unless it makes him hard to stop.

not when the field is up, and kmc/tournament rules make him activate it.
he won't let pride stop him from getting his fondest wish, nor will he let
anyone else take it from him.

and you can't harm the juggernaut no matter what you try, why say it?
instead of superman, you should have drafted a strong psychic or powerful magician cause superman's attacks are insufficient.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He did it to that giant.
He did it to a computer system.
He did it to Alchemist.
He did sped up his own thoughts until it overloaded Thinker (the same could be done to anyone else overloading them from the inside)
He did mentioned he could do it to his own brain in order to kill bacteria.
Prometheus noted that Flash's brain operates at a different frequency than normal people's (proving he can alter the speed of electron in his own brain)

Besides I'm not arguing what would happen in a comic. I'm talking about personality. Karnak presses ever advantage he uses his speed, his strength and his accuracy to their best every time he appears. Pete will have that same personality applied to all of the powers at his disposal.

On the other hand Cain simply doesn't use magic unless it makes him hard to stop. all the speedblitz is gonna do is get superman mocked.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
not when the field is up, and kmc/tournament rules make him activate it.
he won't let pride stop him from getting his fondest wish, nor will he let
anyone else take it from him.

It's not pride. It's a basic part of who he is.

KMC rules don't apply here. Only tourney rules do. Juggy is in character.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
and you can't harm the juggernaut no matter what you try, why say it?
instead of superman, you should have drafted a strong psychic or powerful magician cause superman's attacks are insufficient.

You should accept that Pete has the powers that he has

i accept them. but they are pointless without magical tampering, case in point: juggernaut vs thor.

thor needed to mess with his invulnerability to even think of harming him
which even he couldn't do. you don't have an iota of magic power so....

The debate period is over, so feel free to vote. This is a 24 hour match, and If there aren't any votes when the 24 hour deadline is up, then I may decide myself who should win based on what I've read so far from both participants. Or if there aren't a significant amount of votes, then I may either extend the voting time, or cast my own vote.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


Symmetric Chaos, allow me to pose another question for you.

I understand your argument about trying to defeat the Juggernaut in the opening seconds of the battle, but just to cover all the aspects of the battle here; if Juggernaut manages to get his forcefield up at the beginning of the battle, then what is your plan for defeating the Juggernaut and the two infinity gems he is using? Just curious.

I'd like to remind you victory can only be gained by:

it's almost a tie in my opinion...depending on whether Juggy gets his Forcefield up or not

there's literally not a damn thing psycho gundam's character can do to a character he will not even comprehend...and juggy's intellect( or lack thereof) will not allow him to properly take advantage of the space gem

on the other hand, Pete can't hurt juggy...and only option imo is to steal the gems for a victory

man, I give a very slight advantage to Pete

I will withhold my vote for the time being

Originally posted by Evangel94
Symmetric Chaos, allow me to pose another question for you.

I understand your argument about trying to defeat the Juggernaut in the opening seconds of the battle, but just to cover all the aspects of the battle here; if Juggernaut manages to get his forcefield up at the beginning of the battle, then what is your plan for defeating the Juggernaut and the two infinity gems he is using? Just curious.

I'd like to remind you victory can only be gained by:

If it does get up beforehand Pete (being a tactician) will back off and use perfectly targeted T-vo or Flash's ability to fry his opponent's brain.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If it does get up beforehand Pete (being a tactician) will back off and use perfectly targeted T-vo or Flash's ability to fry his opponent's brain. doesnt that assume the forcefield will have a vulnerability that can be exploited? a pretty big assumption considering the power of Juggy's forcefield

Originally posted by Master-Borg
doesnt that assume the forcefield will have a vulnerability that can be exploited? a pretty big assumption considering the power of Juggy's forcefield

T-vo and BrainFrying can be done at tremendous distance and involve no physical objects.

he can't steal them because the (mystical) energy that imbues juggernaut with his powers is always bombarding him, just like superman's. and just like superman's, juggernaut's shield doesn't take time to come firth since it is comes from within and as on panel, the juggernaut's is not a bubble its rather a energy that emanates from his body.

plus the power gem makes him even more invulnerable, even if he didn't have the power of cyttorak coursing through him, he would still be invulnerable.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
T-vo and BrainFrying can be done at tremendous distance and involve no physical objects. how does T-vo or brainfrying get past Juggy's mystical forcefield? in evidence, it seemed only attacks of magical nature would have any effect on Juggy's forcefield.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
he can't steal them because the (mystical) energy that imbues juggernaut with his powers is always bombarding him, just like superman's. and just like superman's, juggernaut's shield doesn't take time to come firth since it is comes from within and as on panel, the juggernaut's is not a bubble its rather a energy that emanates from his body.

plus the power gem makes him even more invulnerable, even if he didn't have the power of cyttorak coursing through him, he would still be invulnerable. so where is he keeping these gems? (you prob discussed already but Im too lazy to search through the posts)

this "brain fry" is not going to do squat, it's just as useful as heat vision isn't on the juggernaut.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
how does T-vo or brainfrying get past Juggy's mystical forcefield? in evidence, it seemed only attacks of magical nature would have any effect on Juggy's forcefield.

They aren't moving. Neither attack has to pass through anything.

T-vo is psychic mindrape/illusions to drive him nuts. BrainFry is simple control of KE. Nothing has to pass through the field. It is totally irrelevant to both powers.

yeah, like it's going to pass through the field, nothing can.
plus he is wearing the helmet and skullcap, try again.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah, like it's going to pass through the field, nothing can.
plus he is wearing the helmet and skullcap, try again.

Those will be taken off in the initial blitz as explain and neither would protect him from BrainFry.


Anyway let's leave this up the the judges shall we?

well, the constant insinuation of this rare brain fry tactic can't be left to the judges, it won't touch juggy nor will the speedblitz. and again, you posses 0% mystical power or telepathic so the attack can't even do anything.

and on top of that the juggernaut needs not organs to function or flesh to move as displayed with his fight with the arch demon d'spayre.

if superman/flash is as adept with magic as he is, or as classic thor is, you might have a shot at stopping the forcefield then hurting his flesh in any way.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If it does get up beforehand Pete (being a tactician) will back off and use perfectly targeted T-vo or Flash's ability to fry his opponent's brain.

If you don't mind me asking, how would you describe T-VO? Has it bypassed telepathic defenses and psi dampeners before?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
well, the constant insinuation of this rare brain fry tactic can't be left to the judges

To those judging. That is what he thinks of you. Despite your position he doesn't believe you should be allowed to vote of your own accord.

A vote for SymChaos is a vote for freedom.

Originally posted by Evangel94
If you don't mind me asking, how would you describe T-VO? Has it bypassed telepathic defenses and psi dampeners before?

Kryptonian super-hypnosis/psi-power. It has managed to affect the Eradicator before.




Anyway since we're going in circles here I'll sum up my points for everyone:
Cain simply won't use the SpaceGem it goes against his nature
Cain will not use his forcefield as he hardly ever does so
Cain cannot bring the forcefield up fast enough to stop a blitz even if we assumed that he would do it
Cain has no way of hitting Pete
Cain has no defense against a brain fry in any way shape or form (I would like to point out that it is essentially phasing which has effected Juggy in the past)
Cain has no defense again T-vo
Cain is infinitely slower than Pete. He's not as smart. He has fewer powers. He has no time to come up with a real plan. He has no level of skill.

Then again maybe reality will unravel and Pete could just explode the moment the fight begins. Thats the only possible way for Juggy to win this fight.

Vote SymChaos.

Vote freedom!

thats crap.

vote psycho gundam for logic and what the characters are at the end of the day-

-superman/flash is fast but thats not going to prevent the ever present mystical energies to reach the juggernaut, after all he is not the hulk he requires no power up time.

-he possesses the powergem so he is infinitely imbued with invulnerability that further negates the "brain fry" that still can't penetrate his force field, helmet, skullcap, then invulnerable body(superman has no magic).

-juggernaut knows spells so saying he is not intelligent is a lie, his intelligence is noted as normal. just because he seldom uses spells doesn't reduce his faculties to wield power object, and especially those that only require one's subconscious.

-superman/flash can't outlast juggernaut in any way shape or form.
that's why sim is reaching for a rare tactic that is dubious and entirely futile at best.

-classic thor could not do away with juggernaut, and he has magic up the yin yang.the best superman can hope to do is get rid of the juggernaut and unfortunately for sim, he is not capable of even that in this battle for two obvious reasons.

I vote for Psycho Gundam. I think that the brain fry is stupid and won't work since the force fields nullify KE, that Juggernaut can use the gems fairly well given his magic knowledge that took on Nightmare, and in an earlier match I remember Psycho posted a scan of Juggernaut "radiating energy" so that WILL work. T-Vo won't work because of the helmet. And getting your greatest wish>>>Arrogance in terms of motivation, so that forcefields going to be up. SC seemed to be relying way to much on the idea that Juggernaut simply won't use his advanced powers and given the motivation I can't see it happening.

Voting for Psycho Gundam.

Symmetric Chaos, other than a dubious t-vo ability, has not displayed any argument to convince me that he could beat Psycho Gundam. Also, buying knowledge of opposition level 2 does not give him the necessary information to counter the infinity gems at all. He would need at least knowledge of opposition level 3.

Voting SC

Jugs can't match Pete's speed

and T-VO has worked on people who have much better TP defenses than Cain

Voting for SC...

He holds nigh every advantage in this fight, and when push comes to shove, Juggernaut ALWAYS goes for up close fights. A few out of character showings that contradict an entire history aren't great arguments to the contrary. And, more likely than not, Pete WOULD be able to grab the gems and WOULD be able to attack Juggernaut's brain. And Pete's smart enough to have formed thousands of attack plans before Juggernaut can process that the battle has started.

but juggernaut's defenses are absolute, and superman/flash lacks the magic or telepathy to overcome them....how is he supposed to get past them?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
but juggernaut's defenses are absolute, and superman/flash lacks the magic or telepathy to overcome them....how is he supposed to get past them? I've seen a lot of things affect the Juggernaut that weren't magic or telepathy... I don't see why that's so important. Especially when there's been little to no counter to the T-Vo argument.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
but juggernaut's defenses are absolute, and superman/flash lacks the magic or telepathy to overcome them....how is he supposed to get past them?

Correct me if I am wrong here Symmetric Chaos.

From what I gather, "T-VO" is telepathy. He will wait until Juggernaut gets into close combat with Superman, then remove your helmet/skullcap, and attack you with "T-VO."

Voter analysis:


I'm guessing Masterborg, may or may not sway his vote on how you respond to his question and the closing arguements.

I will end this match 6:45. A full extra hour making it 25 hours total for the match.

-Evangel94

i'm pretty sure the power gem's empowerment can further negate even the most absent minded writer's bad writing.

15 minute warning. Please place votes now if you haven't already.

Votes for Symmetric Chaos: 3
Master-borg
Devil Lance
Zeitgeist

Votes for Psycho Gundam: 2
King Kandy
Typhus

I am declaring this match over with a 3 to 2 vote in favor of Symmetric Chaos. Symmetric Chaos returns to the main tournament.

Don't worry Psycho Gundam. You will have a 2nd chance to return in the 2nd Last Chance Finale. Check main tournament thread in a few minutes for more information.

-Evangel94

oh the question regarding his gems-

their location means nothing since his forcefield protects his body, which is in of itself totally impervious to superman/flash period. juggernaut can be balancing the gems on his nose like a dog treat and sim's guys still can't touch them.

i guess he puts the gems inside his clothing in some manner like most men do, after all he has to fight with his hands and at the same time keep the gems hidden it could be located anywhere on his person.

and AGAIN supes/flash can't touch them.

I would have voted for freed....

Err..

Chaos.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Votes for Symmetric Chaos: 3
Master-borg
Devil Lance
Zeitgeist

Votes for Psycho Gundam: 2
King Kandy
Typhus

I am declaring this match over with a 3 to 2 vote in favor of Symmetric Chaos. Symmetric Chaos returns to the main tournament.

Don't worry Psycho Gundam. You will have a 2nd chance to return in the 2nd Last Chance Finale. Check main tournament thread in a few minutes for more information.

-Evangel94
HOLD ON! Masterbruce never officially voted! He only said that at the time of voting, he was leaning towards SC. He never voted.

Originally posted by King Kandy
HOLD ON! Masterbruce never officially voted! He only said that at the time of voting, he was leaning towards SC. He never voted.

Then feel free to consider me the tie breaker.

Your vote wasn't on time.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Your vote wasn't on time. If it's a tie, Evangel's just going to postpone the voting period until somebody breaks it, like she did with mine... which would validate Soljer's vote.

Oh. In that case it's fine.

Originally posted by King Kandy
HOLD ON! Masterbruce never officially voted! He only said that at the time of voting, he was leaning towards SC. He never voted.

Argh, he edited his post!

Originally posted by Evangel94
Argh, he edited his post. liar liar pants on fire

Originally posted by Master-Borg
liar liar pants on fire

Originally posted by Evangel94
damn

lol didnt this happen once before?

Originally posted by Master-Borg
lol didnt this happen once before?

Yes it is. You withdrew your vote in "Symmetric Chaos vs SmurphSmash (Zeitgeist)", and because of it, sent Symmetric Chaos to the Last Chance Finale. Ironically, now you helped Symmetric Chaos move back into the main tournament.

However, I am not going to recount or reopen this match. I will simply count what you said before the edit, which was in favor of Symmetric Chaos. If you were seriously intent on withholding your vote, then make it clear next time by making a new post.



-Evangel94

Originally posted by Evangel94
Yes it is. You withdrew your vote in Symmetric Chaos vs SmurphSmash (Zeitgeist), and because of it, sent Symmetric Chaos to the Last Chance Finale. Ironically, now you helped Symmetric Chaos move back into the main tournament.

However, I am not going to recount or reopen this match. I will simply count what you said before the edit, which was in favor of Symmetric Chaos. If you were seriously intent on withholding your vote, then make it clear next time.

-Evangel94

wow you have a good memory...or you look up things very quick.

I did intend to withhold my vote, but it doesn't matter, since Sym wins anyways due to Soljer's tiebreaker.

anyways, SymChaos, make a better or worse case next time so I can decide one way or the other.

Edit - NVM.

lmao