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The setting for this match is that cleared space on Kashyyyk where the battle in RotS took place.

They are standing on the beach.

This is Bane from the end of Rule of Two and the Secret Apprentice from TFU. (We'll say him from the end of the game)

Round 1: Lightsabers

Round 2: The Force

Round 3: Anything goes.

we know nothing about how powerful the apprentice can really be by the end of the game, so until then i say let this die, and we'll bring it back then
but just for the hell of it ill say bane wins

Well what do we even know about the Apprentice?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Secret_Apprentice

He can pull a Star Destroyer out of the sky.

Read, read. Then make your descisions!

he can bring a star destroyer to the ground, and hes physically strong enough to rip a cannon from an ATST with his bare hands and use it like a club...other than that, he has no real feats that make him exceptional

LOL!

From what we know the apprentice is seems to be a powerful force user who knows force lightning and he seems to be a capable lightsaber duelist.

Here is my prediction now since the novel (ultimately the canon source for TFU) is not out yet so we really don't have much to go by.
Sabers= Bane.
Force only=apprentice though he may in fact lose,I'd give an ever so slight edge to him now only from what we have seen in the trailer and Bane's weakness to lightning.
All out=Bane with difficulty

Originally posted by MadMel
hes physically strong enough to rip a cannon from an ATST with his bare hands and use it like a club...other than that, he has no real feats that make him exceptional

say what?

Hmm, interesting.

... As far as we know, MadMe .... I remind you the game has not come out yet.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that Nebaris will make his way to this thread, post something regarding Darth Bane's awesome ability to function as a conduit for planet-destroying energy and that the Apprentice's lightning is hardly sufficient to breach the orbalisk armor and would be subsequently owned in a matter of seconds.

That said, the Apprentice has supposedly been tortured and trained to use the Force on a "whole new level" and (according to Hayden Blackman) he is what Luke Skywalker might have became if Luke had accepted Vader's offer to become his apprentice. He has demonstrated the ability to pull an Imperial-class Star Destroyer out of the sky without any difficulty, and this is one of the very largest capital ships in history -- and then stopped it. He also has demonstrated sufficient telekinesis to crumple an AT-ST into a durasteel ball, as well as to create a vortex of psychokinesis that sucks in vast objects like a black hole, as well as create shockwaves of energy capable of destroying armored stormtroopers, walls, and containers.

Can't wait to play the game.

Neither can I.

And if what you said is true, then the Apprentice could have the potential to become one of the most powerful Sith all-time, maybe even the most powerful.

Originally posted by Gideon
He has demonstrated the ability to pull an Imperial-class Star Destroyer out of the sky without any difficulty, and this is one of the very largest capital ships in history -- and then stopped it.Stopping the SD wouldn't take that much effort, considering the absolutely ridiculous amounts of friction that would come into play when something that large hits the ground at relatively low speeds. Keep in mind that the front half of the Invisible Hand was coming in at extremely high speeds, but slowed down rather quickly with Anakin's help and came to a stop within about fifteen seconds of hitting the ground.

Pulling it down is still more impressive, so it is irrelevant whether it's difficult to stop it or not.

Will he replace NJO Luke as the "Force God"?

Maybe. We won't know until the game is released.

we won't know until the book is released because that will cannonize just how powerful he is because honestly i'm assuming that gameplay is going to be as awesome as it is so people will buy the game and so lucasarts can make even more money

Yes, you are correct. My mistake, then 'we won't know until the novelization is released'.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Pulling it down is still more impressive, so it is irrelevant whether it's difficult to stop it or not.

once again, we have no proof he actually pulls it down, and IF he does, it is just plain stupid, and throws the whole Star Wars universe out of whack ONCE again. Hopefully, he used mind control, or sabotaged the ship somehow, that's what i'm hoping for, because if he just rips a star destroyer out of orbit, we might as well all quit this forum now, because he becomes the automatic winner at everythign. (unless of course, he is faced by the intimidating Dorsk 81!!!! j/p (8

i would also like to point out, that he probably knows thousands of force moves NO ONE else knows, because whenever he chokes somebody in the force (if you watch the trailers on LucasArts.com) he creates cool little glowy neon lights that i've never seen any other force-choker create! same with force push! not only does he push everyone back, but he also uses the force in minute ways to subtly rearrange the molecular structure of the air around his targets in order to change the color of light those molecules absorb! thus the "clear" air, changes color to green, yellow, red, or even purple! no one has ever used that level of microscopic control with the force since perhaps Darth Plageious, (and we assume that midichlorians are at least larger than the molecular level, so with all probability, we see the force excersized with the greatest amount of precision and skill that we have ever seen in all of star wars, simply by his manipulation of the color of his force attacks! (i'm of course mocking the game play i've seen so far, and trying to instantly discredit anything so ridiculous a character accomplishes, but i hope you see my point.)

as a final argument as to the greatness of the apprentice, he can thrust his light saber into the chest of a stormtrooper, leave it there for a few seconds, while once again manipulating the molecules into changing color on the visible spectrum, and then pull it out, the stormtrooper drops dead, but there isn't a mark on him! amazingly, the secret apprentice has used the force to rebond, at the very least, his stormtrooper armor, and since there is no visible mark, once again, the armor has been manipulated at the molecular level in order to reform the bonds, even down to the white paint on the armor....

so in short, i'm incredibly disappointed with what i've seen from this game so far: when do we get a realistic combat game for star wars? the last was JA, and that was so long ago, and the graphics have moved so much furher, they could do so much better, and now they are making what seems like a kiddie game with all lightsaber control, and violence neatly removed.

Originally posted by truejedi
once again, we have no proof he actually pulls it down,

We have no proof? How is the cover of the novelization iteslf 'no proof'? What, do you really believe the author would be stupid enough to place that picture in the cover of the book while knowing it would be non-canon? Sense. You make none.





I hope you don't really mean that many Force moves... and I doubt it. Please, I'd like you to name two Force moves the apprentice has displayed which 'no one else knows'.



Those 'little glowy neon lights' are most likely gameplay, and probably do not mean anything, nor change anything.



Do you have a link for this video? I would certainly like to see it.




I think you are misunderstanding. I heavily doubt the creators of the game were even aware their character was 'manipulating the molecules into changing color on the visible spectrum'...



Oh, c'mon... it's a videogame. You can't expect it to be perfect.

The apprentice didn't use raw power to pull the Star Destroyer. He manipulates it. He has the help of gravity, and he simply manipulates controls, vents, conduits, hydraulics, navigations, computers. The first pull is him breaking the pilots hands, though. Then he uses force to manipulate the other elements.
And that is still impressive, but no, he does not bring it straight down.

And for example, another way would be to change the molecular bonds in the fuel making it useless.

But he still probably could bring it down with raw force.
"Size matters not"

Luke: "I don't.. I don't believe it.."
Yoda: "That, is why you fail"

Yoda: "Only different in your mind"

Some quotes, also showing that any Jedi or Sith dedicated enough could take down a Star Destroyer. If you get rid of the chains of your mind, you could do great things.

Originally posted by tauros
Firstly if size really matters not, then why aren't jedi and sith throwing planets and capital ships at one another?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
say what?
indeed
Originally posted by truejedi
once again, we have no proof he actually pulls it down
uh yea we do, the creator said it himself multiple times

Because they haven't gotten rid of their limitations.

And it's canon, so.. :P

the fact is he could bring a ship down..read my above post..

No-one is denying that he brought the ship down.

Originally posted by tauros
The apprentice didn't use raw power to pull the Star Destroyer. He manipulates it. He has the help of gravity, and he simply manipulates controls, vents, conduits, hydraulics, navigations, computers. The first pull is him breaking the pilots hands, though. Then he uses force to manipulate the other elements. any proof of this??

Originally posted by tauros
And for example, another way would be to change the molecular bonds in the fuel making it useless. true, but judging by the hand motions he was making its safe to assume he pulled it down, with the help of gravity of course

Originally posted by tauros
But he still probably could bring it down with raw force.
"Size matters not" only in theory..

Yes, size matters for people, but only because they haven't gotten rid of their limitations. So if you COULD get rid of everything you have been taught and seen, how a planet is heavier than a flower etc, you could move a planet as easy as a flower.

I agree with Tauros

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
We have no proof? How is the cover of the novelization iteslf 'no proof'? What, do you really believe the author would be stupid enough to place that picture in the cover of the book while knowing it would be non-canon? Sense. You make none.





I hope you don't really mean that many Force moves... and I doubt it. Please, I'd like you to name two Force moves the apprentice has displayed which 'no one else knows'.



Those 'little glowy neon lights' are most likely gameplay, and probably do not mean anything, nor change anything.



Do you have a link for this video? I would certainly like to see it.




I think you are misunderstanding. I heavily doubt the creators of the game were even aware their character was 'manipulating the molecules into changing color on the visible spectrum'...



Oh, c'mon... it's a videogame. You can't expect it to be perfect.
\
it was sarcasm.. the whole post.. it would have behooved you to recognize that. except wait... the first part: it may be that he pulls down a star destoyer, but the fact that he is standing in front of a star destroyer that has come down, with his hands outstretched does not CONFIRM that he actually pulled it down. So i'm holding out hope for the star wars universe before i actually see it in game play. I'm trying to be optimistic here, thats all.

Originally posted by truejedi
\
it was sarcasm.. my whole post.. it would have behooved you to recognize that. except wait... the first part: it may be that he pulls down a star destoyer, but the fact that he is standing in front of a star destroyer that has come down, with his hands outstretched does not CONFIRM that he actually pulled it down. So i'm holding out hope for the star wars universe before i actually see it in game play. I'm trying to be optimistic here, thats all.

He did obviously pull it down. There's nothing "breaking" the SW universe in there.

Well basically if this is allowed to happen, and all of his feats are deemed 100% canon, then the Apprentice really could be the most powerful Sith/Jedi ever. If not thee most, certainly one of the best.

Why, exactly?

Originally posted by MadMel
indeed

can u post a link to the video?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
can u post a link to the video?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vkno2oQaJJk

0:35

Originally posted by tauros
The apprentice didn't use raw power to pull the Star Destroyer. He manipulates it. He has the help of gravity, and he simply manipulates controls, vents, conduits, hydraulics, navigations, computers. The first pull is him breaking the pilots hands, though. Then he uses force to manipulate the other elements.
And that is still impressive, but no, he does not bring it straight down.

You do not know that. That's a bold and unsupported argument from your part. Unless you substantiate your claims, there is no reason for anyone to think he did not bring it straight down, because that's exactly what he see him do in the video.




In this case, it does matter.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
You do not know that. That's a bold and unsupported argument from your part. Unless you substantiate your claims, there is no reason for anyone to think he did not bring it straight down, because that's exactly what he see him do in the video.No, it's a claim that attempts to keep things within reason of what we've seen in the SW EU. Completely opposite to what you're doing, which would be trying to use the cover of a novel and a videogame trailer as irrefutable evidence that the SA used his raw Force power to drop a Star Destroyer, all qabout four months before the game, novel, or comic even come out. Which is stupid.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
You do not know that. That's a bold and unsupported argument from your part. Unless you substantiate your claims, there is no reason for anyone to think he did not bring it straight down, because that's exactly what he see him do in the video.




In this case, it does matter.

I do know it, but that's not the point. Think about it, yourself. It's way easier to bring it down the way I described, and I can give you more detailed description of what he does, if you wish. You are only seeing the surface when you say that he brings it down with raw force, which, as I said, he probably could do. Maybe. I don't know.

Although what you say could be true, it is highly unprobable. When Jedi or Sith lift or take something down, even when it's massive, they usually don't bother to do everything you said. At least nobody has bothered until now.

I'm pretty sure Blackman made the claim that all the powers and feats demonstrated in the trailers would be available in the game, including the Star Destroyer incident. This computer is shit, does anyone have access to the website or Youtube?

Originally posted by truejedi
once again, we have no proof he actually pulls it down, and IF he does, it is just plain stupid, and throws the whole Star Wars universe out of whack ONCE again. Hopefully, he used mind control, or sabotaged the ship somehow, that's what i'm hoping for, because if he just rips a star destroyer out of orbit, we might as well all quit this forum now, because he becomes the automatic winner at everythign. (unless of course, he is faced by the intimidating Dorsk 81!!!! j/p (8

i would also like to point out, that he probably knows thousands of force moves NO ONE else knows, because whenever he chokes somebody in the force (if you watch the trailers on LucasArts.com) he creates cool little glowy neon lights that i've never seen any other force-choker create! same with force push! not only does he push everyone back, but he also uses the force in minute ways to subtly rearrange the molecular structure of the air around his targets in order to change the color of light those molecules absorb! thus the "clear" air, changes color to green, yellow, red, or even purple! no one has ever used that level of microscopic control with the force since perhaps Darth Plageious, (and we assume that midichlorians are at least larger than the molecular level, so with all probability, we see the force excersized with the greatest amount of precision and skill that we have ever seen in all of star wars, simply by his manipulation of the color of his force attacks! (i'm of course mocking the game play i've seen so far, and trying to instantly discredit anything so ridiculous a character accomplishes, but i hope you see my point.)

as a final argument as to the greatness of the apprentice, he can thrust his light saber into the chest of a stormtrooper, leave it there for a few seconds, while once again manipulating the molecules into changing color on the visible spectrum, and then pull it out, the stormtrooper drops dead, but there isn't a mark on him! amazingly, the secret apprentice has used the force to rebond, at the very least, his stormtrooper armor, and since there is no visible mark, once again, the armor has been manipulated at the molecular level in order to reform the bonds, even down to the white paint on the armor....

so in short, i'm incredibly disappointed with what i've seen from this game so far: when do we get a realistic combat game for star wars? the last was JA, and that was so long ago, and the graphics have moved so much furher, they could do so much better, and now they are making what seems like a kiddie game with all lightsaber control, and violence neatly removed.


Wow, you are exactly right. I don't blame you at all for wanting a more realistic Star Wars combat engine, and the Apprentice does seem a little too powerful for no reason.

Although, JA wasn't the last Star Wars game to have a realistic Lightsaber Combat Engine.
Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II was.
Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy had ridiculously horrible Combat Engines that basically contained flashy completely unrealistic movesets that were actually designed to loosely and poorly mimic the acrobatic lightsaber choreography from TPM which had been released not far before.

I actually started playing it after I had been taking Kenjutsu for a while and the way I noticed Kyle or Jaden swinging the lightsaber around with any of the styles I was like, "Ewww, he's way too exposed there..." and "What the hell was that??"

In Dark Forces II when they were going with the choreography from the OT, the lightsaber swings were somewhat slower than the faster styles in JO and JA but they were more controlled and more technically sound.

So, JO and JA disgusted me, and I had to wait until the RotS Video Game to see a realistic(mostly) Lightsaber Combat Engine.

So, I'm hoping TFU's Lightsaber Combat Engine will be more like the RotS Game one and less like the one for JO and JA, that way it won't be crap.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm pretty sure Blackman made the claim that all the powers and feats demonstrated in the trailers would be available in the game, including the Star Destroyer incident. This computer is shit, does anyone have access to the website or Youtube?

What trailer do you want to see?

The power to take a Star Destroyer down won't be in the game, obviously.. if it is, it'll be in a cutscene.

And Valerian, not many Jedi/Sith have taken a Star Destroyer down. It is far easier and far more intelligent to take one down the way I said.

If it's in a cutscene that's even better, or worse depending on how much you love the Apprentice.

Cutscenes > Gameplay as far as canon is concerned.

i think hayden blackman said it was a cutscene, but that was a while ago..he could have made changes..

^ You need to get laid

Says the man with the Gambit signature.

Originally posted by tauros
The power to take a Star Destroyer down won't be in the game, obviously.. if it is, it'll be in a cutscene.

Yes, it probably won't be in-game, but it's still canon.



I never said many Jedi or Sith have taken down a Star Destroyer... That is why it is such an incredible feat coming from the apprentice. But the way you said he took it down, it would still take a lot concentration and skill. Either way, I think we agree: both feats (bringing it straight down & the way you said it) are amazing. So what are we arguing for?

Oh... This changes some things:

http://www.lucasarts.com/games/theforceunleashed/

Check out the video and you'll know what I'm saying.

What video?

Forget it, just check it out in the Force Unleashed thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=442831&pagenumber=7#post10442427

If you look at the video then you can clearly see that the figure pulls the SD down. SD's just don't move like that and it would be physically impossible to make a ship do that wierd jerk without the Force.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Wow, you are exactly right. I don't blame you at all for wanting a more realistic Star Wars combat engine, and the Apprentice does seem a little too powerful for no reason.

Although, JA wasn't the last Star Wars game to have a realistic Lightsaber Combat Engine.
Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II was.
Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy had ridiculously horrible Combat Engines that basically contained flashy completely unrealistic movesets that were actually designed to loosely and poorly mimic the acrobatic lightsaber choreography from TPM which had been released not far before.

I actually started playing it after I had been taking Kenjutsu for a while and the way I noticed Kyle or Jaden swinging the lightsaber around with any of the styles I was like, "Ewww, he's way too exposed there..." and "What the hell was that??"

In Dark Forces II when they were going with the choreography from the OT, the lightsaber swings were somewhat slower than the faster styles in JO and JA but they were more controlled and more technically sound.

So, JO and JA disgusted me, and I had to wait until the RotS Video Game to see a realistic(mostly) Lightsaber Combat Engine.

So, I'm hoping TFU's Lightsaber Combat Engine will be more like the RotS Game one and less like the one for JO and JA, that way it won't be crap.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

I preferred the JA and JO combat system mainly because the lightsaber was a one-hit killing blade and not a glowing club like it looks to be in TFU and as it was in the ROTS game.

Secondly, i dislike button mashing when it comes to lightsaber combat, which means I might buy a wii just to have a better lightsaber experience. In JA the lightsaber - as you well know - was controlled by the analog stick which made for more intuitive gameplay, rather than scripted button combos you actually swung your lightsaber at the openings, that was far more interesting imv.

But i agree with you on your point about some of the lightsaber swings leaving you exposed. However if you used fast style (you were rarely exposed) or even most of the strikes in medium style.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If you look at the video then you can clearly see that the figure pulls the SD down. SD's just don't move like that and it would be physically impossible to make a ship do that wierd jerk without the Force.

He doesn't. Of course SD's don't move like that, D'oh. If they did, all they would do is crash to the ground

How would it be impossible to make a ship do that weird jerk without directly affecting the ship with force?

How would you make a engine powered starship jerk sideways? You'd need something on the side of the ship to give it the right push, like a thruster, but as we all know, SD only have the back engines to propulse them forward, allowing for slow turns. Not erratic jerks.

That, my friend, is gravity. The initial pull is him breaking the pilots hands, which then makes the ship go down, but because of gravity, it doesn't go perfectly down as it's not planned to handle that sharp movements

There is no doubt that gravity helped pull the ship down regardless of if the apprentice was physically pulling the sd down or not.

Originally posted by Allankles
I preferred the JA and JO combat system mainly because the lightsaber was a one-hit killing blade and not a glowing club like it looks to be in TFU and as it was in the ROTS game.

Secondly, i dislike button mashing when it comes to lightsaber combat, which means I might buy a wii just to have a better lightsaber experience. In JA the lightsaber - as you well know - was controlled by the analog stick which made for more intuitive gameplay, rather than scripted button combos you actually swung your lightsaber at the openings, that was far more interesting imv.

But i agree with you on your point about some of the lightsaber swings leaving you exposed. However if you used fast style (you were rarely exposed) or even most of the strikes in medium style.

thats true, remember Jedi Power battles? hit a droid 600 times or something like that? i play these games on PC so i didn't have quite the analog control i think for JA, i did like most of the acrobatics, but i didn't like the way you had to run around constantly. you can't stand in one place and fight toe to toe with another lightsaber user, or you die, which really sucked, it was run in a circle around the opponent, then take one swing and back off, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat.

Originally posted by truejedi
thats true, remember Jedi Power battles? hit a droid 600 times or something like that? i play these games on PC so i didn't have quite the analog control i think for JA, i did like most of the acrobatics, but i didn't like the way you had to run around constantly. you can't stand in one place and fight toe to toe with another lightsaber user, or you die, which really sucked, it was run in a circle around the opponent, then take one swing and back off, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat.

You could still use a controller with your pc.
Yes using the analog stick made the combat a lot better imv. Also the system allowed plenty of experimentation and if you were skilled enough you could make the lightsaber combat look as cinematic as you liked. Here's an example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xc2bHVTQRo&feature=related

mq4cM9o7db8

If the pilots hands where broken then how come the ship still righted itself?

Ding dong Hong Kong bidi bidi bang bang!

That, my friend, would be emergency repulsors

Originally posted by Allankles
I preferred the JA and JO combat system mainly because the lightsaber was a one-hit killing blade and not a glowing club like it looks to be in TFU and as it was in the ROTS game.

Secondly, i dislike button mashing when it comes to lightsaber combat, which means I might buy a wii just to have a better lightsaber experience. In JA the lightsaber - as you well know - was controlled by the analog stick which made for more intuitive gameplay, rather than scripted button combos you actually swung your lightsaber at the openings, that was far more interesting imv.

But i agree with you on your point about some of the lightsaber swings leaving you exposed. However if you used fast style (you were rarely exposed) or even most of the strikes in medium style.


Some of what your saying is arguable, but also true.

I hated the stances though, he always had his hands too low and his shoulders forward, that's a great way to get dismembered in real life.

In Jedi Knight Dark Forces II the stance was correct, upright with back errect and hands and shoulders up.

Also the Fast style was too chaotic and random to be truly effective...

At least in comparison with the tactically sound style in DF II.

I think I'm going to get a Wii for TFU as well...

Star Destroyers don't have emergency repulsers on the bottom or the sides, the underside is pretty much flat. You can see this at the very start of 'New Hope'.

Despite your impressive attempts to explain the SD incident, you have failed my friend. Your explanation is tto long-winded, obscure and abstract to work, hardly the announced 'using the force at new levels and in ways never before imagined' that we've been promised. Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest explanation would be that the SA just pulled the damn thing down, utilizing the 'mind over matter' teachings of Master Yoda.

however, if they make everyone's force powers "over the top" do we have to put everything back in perspective? i mean, if, say is it Depa Billaba, that we are supposed to kill? or Aayla Secura? one of em i think. If she is incredibly powerful too, does that automatically put her ahead of jedi like Yoda? if she does things in the game that Yoda couldn't do, or even stalemates the apprentice at some point in the game (who has obviously become the most powerful force user ever) does that make her more powerful than yoda too? or do we have to tone the whole scale of the game back to keep it consistent with the rest of the star wars universe?


couple other points: Occams Razor doesn't apply in every logical argument, and it is far from infallible.

finally, i admit it does look like the SA pulls down the ship: but for the sake of ANY consistency in the star wars universe, i'm hoping there is some other explanation. Perhaps its a disabled star destroyer that is crash landing, and he slows its fall to protect the lives of those on board? doesn't that explanation work better than the SA destroys an entire star destroyer and the emperor doesn't notice?

edit- nevermind. I initially misunderstood your point.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Star Destroyers don't have emergency repulsers on the bottom or the sides, the underside is pretty much flat. You can see this at the very start of 'New Hope'.

Despite your impressive attempts to explain the SD incident, you have failed my friend. Your explanation is tto long-winded, obscure and abstract to work, hardly the announced 'using the force at new levels and in ways never before imagined' that we've been promised. Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest explanation would be that the SA just pulled the damn thing down, utilizing the 'mind over matter' teachings of Master Yoda.

I never fail, for it happened as I said it did

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Some of what your saying is arguable, but also true.

I hated the stances though, he always had his hands too low and his shoulders forward, that's a great way to get dismembered in real life.

In Jedi Knight Dark Forces II the stance was correct, upright with back errect and hands and shoulders up.

Also the Fast style was too chaotic and random to be truly effective...

In strong style the pc stands upright with back erect with hands and shoulders up, but it's probably the least aesthetically pleasing of the light saber styles.

DF 2 was less fluid than JA, I think the combat was improved overall. You had much more lee way to create cinematic aesthetically pleasing fights with JA's combat system. And you could apply plenty of tactics, employing an array of acrobatic techniques as well as a deft touch with the light saber.

EDIT: I forgot to mention fast style had to be used with moderation and precision otherwise (yes) it would degenerate into an ineffective and chaotic style.

Originally posted by tauros
I never fail, for it happened as I said it did

No. You think it happened that specific way, but you actually have no idea because you have no evidence whatsoever.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
No. You think it happened that specific way, but you actually have no idea because you have no evidence whatsoever.

No, I know how it happened.

I'd just like to point out that Nihilius did pretty much the same thing as The Secret Apprentice by pulling the Ravager out of a gravity well/ Malachor V.

Originally posted by tauros
No, I know how it happened.

lemme resolve this issue
hayden blackman said he pulls the DS to the ground..he doesnt say he broke the pilots hands, and let the gravity do the work..he says the secret apprentice pulled it down...you can even see the hand and arm motions in the video..
there - issue resolved, he pulled it with pure strength in the force, enough said..

Originally posted by MadMel

lemme resolve this issue
hayden blackman said he pulls the DS to the ground..he doesnt say he broke the pilots hands, and let the gravity do the work..he says the secret apprentice pulled it down...you can even see the hand and arm motions in the video..
there - issue resolved, he pulled it with pure strength in the force, enough said..

No, I disagree. It couldn't possibly be that because he didn't say this: "the apprentices brains tell his right arms muscles to rise up to this and this height, and then his brains tell his fingers to form this and this position, and then his brains tell his left arm to move and his left hands fingers to form this and this position, and then the apprentice uses the Forces dark side to pull down the Star Destroyer from height X to height X and at the same time his brain sends more messages to his muscles what to do and and overpowering the Star Destroyer X's own systems and then finally pulling it down with pure, raw force."



And you don't see his hands before the ship is already falling and he's getting ready to stop it.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck


He can pull a Star Destroyer out of the sky.

so what? yoda said that you might not judge a person by his size = > size doesn't matter
so there is no difference

Originally posted by tauros
No, I disagree. It couldn't possibly be that because he didn't say this: "the apprentices brains tell his right arms muscles to rise up to this and this height, and then his brains tell his fingers to form this and this position, and then his brains tell his left arm to move and his left hands fingers to form this and this position, and then the apprentice uses the Forces dark side to pull down the Star Destroyer from height X to height X and at the same time his brain sends more messages to his muscles what to do and and overpowering the Star Destroyer X's own systems and then finally pulling it down with pure, raw force."



And you don't see his hands before the ship is already falling and he's getting ready to stop it.
1. disagree all you want, its canon, and you cant disprove it
2. wtf? why would he need to? you see it yourself in the video
3. you see him moving his arms in a downwards motion as he pulls the SD down, and then he puts his arms in front of him to stop it hitting him

1. No, you're wrong and the way I said it happened is canon
2. Wtf? Why would he need to say that he does it the way I said he does it then, either? You see it in the video!
3. You see him moving his hands downwards after the SD is ALREADY FALLING and everything is done.

Originally posted by tauros
1. No, you're wrong and the way I said it happened is canon
Originally posted by tauros
2. Wtf? Why would he need to say that he does it the way I said he does it then, either? You see it in the video!
keep telling yourself that
Originally posted by tauros
3. You see him moving his hands downwards after the SD is ALREADY FALLING and everything is done.
which means he was pulling it down, and not doing whatever the hell you said he was

I'll keep telling it to myself, worry not!

Oh, let Tauros be. He won't change his mind no matter what we tell him.

Yes, let me be! You heard the man!

Originally posted by tauros
1. No, you're wrong and the way I said it happened is canon

This poor guy thinks he's me. I am the ultimate power in the universe!

Look, just ignore Tauros. He's nothing but an idiot that can't debate, has no sources and thinks Supershadow is legit. That's as stupid as Nebaris.

On-topic, I think RoT Bane will win, because he's a full Sith Lord that has lots of saber and Force skill as well as orbalisk armor. He could probably kill the apprentice. After all, if the apprentice was so "ultra-pwning" as people like Tauros think he is, then he could have overthrown his Master (Vader) and his Master's Master (Sidious.)

::::::O! You're playing the "LET'S PUT WORDS INTO EACH OTHERS MOUTHS" game, "caedusrulesall"? I can play that too!

caedusrulesall said that Bane could kill the entire universe in a second, and *gasp* think he is SuperShadow's wife! And on top of that, he thinks SS is legit! You may think that is made up, since it sounds to horrible to be true - but I assure you it's the truth. And then once caedusrulesall said that his dog's (johan) dog (jack) could beat Sidious. Can you believe that?!

Gideon: I am not you? Goddagnabit! I immediately take everything I have said in this thread back. But if I take everything back, do I also take back saying that I take everything back? Which would mean I didn't take anything back? But if I didn't, then I did take everything back? Tune in next tuesday for the answer!

Originally posted by tauros
::::::O! You're playing the "LET'S PUT WORDS INTO EACH OTHERS MOUTHS" game, "caedusrulesall"? I can play that too!

caedusrulesall said that Bane could kill the entire universe in a second, and *gasp* think he is SuperShadow's wife! And on top of that, he thinks SS is legit! You may think that is made up, since it sounds to horrible to be true - but I assure you it's the truth. And then once caedusrulesall said that his dog's (johan) dog (jack) could beat Sidious. Can you believe that?!

Gideon: I am not you? Goddagnabit! I immediately take everything I have said in this thread back. But if I take everything back, do I also take back saying that I take everything back? Which would mean I didn't take anything back? But if I didn't, then I did take everything back? Tune in next tuesday for the answer!

Let's back down from attacking the good guys, Tauros.

And now let's look at the facts:

You *have* been debating on and on and on in a clearly losing battle.
You *have* explicitly said Supershadow is legit, accompanied by this smilie
You *have* debated on and on without sourcing.
You *are* an idiot, as your previous post shows.

Oh, back to making up facts are we! Well, I think that's a fairly boring game to play, so I'll let you win the "Make up as many things as you can!" contest. Cookie!

Originally posted by tauros
Oh, back to making up facts are we! Well, I think that's a fairly boring game to play, so I'll let you win the "Make up as many things as you can!" contest. Cookie!

These facts are actually true. Let's take a look at what thread they came from:

Debating on and on: This thread and Tulak Hord vs. Exar Kun vs. Kas'im
Saying Supershadow is legit: Tulak Hord vs. Exar Kun vs. Kas'im
Not sourcing: Tulak Hord vs. Exar Kun vs. Kas'im and (I think) this thread
Idiot: Pretty much every time you post

If you thought making up facts is a boring game, then you must either be the world's biggest hypocrite, or you're schizophrenic.

Am I not right, everyone else?

Oh, I'm sorry. You're not supposed to debate in the versus forum? That's a new one!

I've also said that I'm Britney Spears. However it doesn't make it true. Or does it? Don't think so! Do you? And no, I don't think that SS is "legit."

I did not source, for there is no public source. I have my own sources which I believe are correct; and as I said in the topic, I did not try to make anyone believe me, and I said you can leave it as just my opinion about the fight.

Idiot? I think not.

Billions of flies just LOVE to eat poo. They can't be wrong, right? There are also numerous other factors that make your question just plain idiotic, which would further suggest that it is not I who is an idiot, but someone else in this conversation.
Not to mention it is rather weak to ask the communitys support (which you have belonged in a lot longer than I have) in your "argument".

Originally posted by tauros
Oh, I'm sorry. You're not supposed to debate in the versus forum? That's a new one!

You are supposed to debate, however you are also supposed to provide sources when asked.

Originally posted by tauros
I've also said that I'm Britney Spears. However it doesn't make it true. Or does it? Don't think so! Do you? And no, I don't think that SS is "legit."

Last page of Tulak Hord vs. Exar Kun vs. Kas'im, you said: "supershadow IS legit "

Originally posted by tauros
I did not source, for there is no public source. I have my own sources which I believe are correct; and as I said in the topic, I did not try to make anyone believe me, and I said you can leave it as just my opinion about the fight.

This is where a lot of people will just label you an idiot. We cannot believe that you have private sources that we don't, simply because we have no way of finding out. For example, when you say "oh Tulak Hord had 13 lightsabers at once" and "when the Tulak Hord novel comes out you'll see". If you really wanted to fake sources, you should know that the new novel is going to be about Darth Andeddu.

Originally posted by tauros
Idiot? I think not.

Billions of flies just LOVE to eat poo. They can't be wrong, right? There are also numerous other factors that make your question just plain idiotic, which would further suggest that it is not I who is an idiot, but someone else in this conversation.
Not to mention it is rather weak to ask the communitys support (which you have belonged in a lot longer than I have) in your "argument".

Flies are non-sentient. They are not nearly as intelligent as humans, and as such cannot be judged by acts of intelligence or stupidity. You, on the other hand, are a human. Humans are sentient. They are intelligent enough to know not to eat crap. So you can't compare yourself, a sentient human, to a non-sentient fly.

Yes, and sources I have provided when possible.

Yes, I said that. Read what you just quoted.

Again, read what you just quoted. ""I did not try to make anyone believe me, and I said you can leave it as just my opinion about the fight. " Honestly, then you lose me. The new novel about Tulak Hord is going to be about Darth Andeddu? Right, my friend!

Ahh, flies are non-sentient? Did you know that bears (family Ursidae) are mammals in the order Carnivora? Bears are classified as caniforms, or doglike carnivorans, with the pinnipeds being their closest living relatives. Although there are only eight living species of bear, they are widespread, appearing in a wide variety of habitats throughout the Northern Hemisphere and partially in the Southern Hemisphere.

Originally posted by tauros
Yes, and sources I have provided when possible.

And all these places where you have said something and have been unable to source it?

Originally posted by tauros
Yes, I said that. Read what you just quoted.

I have read it. You said Supershadow is legit. Ergo, you believe that Supershadow is legit. I see no real problem with what I quoted.

Originally posted by tauros
Again, read what you just quoted. ""I did not try to make anyone believe me, and I said you can leave it as just my opinion about the fight. " Honestly, then you lose me. The new novel about Tulak Hord is going to be about Darth Andeddu? Right, my friend!

More stupidity. There will be no new novel about Tulak Hord. There will, however, be a novel about Darth Andeddu.

Originally posted by tauros
Ahh, flies are non-sentient? Did you know that bears (family Ursidae) are mammals in the order Carnivora? Bears are classified as caniforms, or doglike carnivorans, with the pinnipeds being their closest living relatives. Although there are only eight living species of bear, they are widespread, appearing in a wide variety of habitats throughout the Northern Hemisphere and partially in the Southern Hemisphere.

All this crap about bears really has nothing to do with the debate at hand. Not even about sentience.

You're a lost case, aren't you?

Originally posted by tauros
You're a lost case, aren't you?

No, I believe that honor would go to you, who can't source or debate, and who believes the Secret Apprentice is the most powerful ever, who is unable to understand plain English, who believes Supershadow is legit, and who strays off-topic over and over again.

All I'm doing is debating with you.

Great comeback! Who would have suspected you'd throw the "NO YOU!!!!!!!!" "argument" and then spout complete nonsense? No-one, that's who!

And, by the way, I stopped "debating" with you, since you don't seem to get the hints that I'm giving you, nor the very clearly said things. Fruitless, it is.

Originally posted by tauros
Great comeback! Who would have suspected you'd throw the "NO YOU!!!!!!!!" "argument" and then spout complete nonsense? No-one, that's who!

Note I also provided numerous good reasons why you're an idiot and a lost case. Versus you, who really hasn't provided any evidence other than typing like a crack addict with a laptop.

And what would those good reasons be? Really, what kind of evidence would you like me to give you then?

Originally posted by tauros
And what would those good reasons be? Really, what kind of evidence would you like me to give you then?

Those reasons would be (and I quote):



And it doesn't matter what evidence you give. You just need to at least give some evidence that I'm wrong.

Please. Tell me you're joking. You're reaching dangerous levels of idioticism. Let me try to show you what I mean by this (so you'll perhaps understand too):

You, caedusrulesall, are an imbecile. Give me proof that you aren't. By the way, no matter what proof you give, I won't accept it, and still keep calling you an imbecile. Oh and, you also said that the internet is a spider. Yes you did. You ask for proof? I won't give you! But you did, did did! And you can't understand plain english, even though you are communicating with it. How is that possible, you ask? Well, it's just something I say, so it's true. Prove me that's not the case! Oh, you can't! BTW, you believe SuperShadow is legit. You don't? Don't lie. You do, do, do!! And you stray off-topic. What? You say you don't? BUT YOU DO, DO, DO! And to top this all, I'll give you one line that doesn't make any sense at all:

And it doesn't matter what evidence you give. You just need to at least give some evidence that I'm wrong.

Hah! You got yourself proper owned there, mister! It doesn't matter what evidence you give, but you should give me some evidence. But it doesn't matter what. "Pwned!"

Now, since you'll just probably come with another of your repetitive posts, I'll be nice and answer to some of your questions, then I'll go to sleep.

Firstly, I've never said the secret apprentice is the most powerful ever, never even hinted that. I can source, and I can debate. I can understand plain english. I don't think SuperShadow is legit. I stray off-topic only when necessary, and I don't remember doing so often. This conversation right here is certainly off-topic, but it is you who started it.

Now, "All this crap about bears really has nothing to do with the debate at hand. Not even about sentience." It was just to point out that your whole speech about flies has nothing to do with the debate at hand either, or my quote about billions of flies liking poo. You weren't bright enough to spot the point, just as I suspected.

"More stupidity. There will be no new novel about Tulak Hord. There will, however, be a novel about Darth Andeddu."
Are you saying that the novel about Darth Andeddu is the last novel ever to be released about Star Wars? No? Then why couldn't they make one after that? And you claimed it's more stupidity from me..? Sigh.

"I have read it. You said Supershadow is legit. Ergo, you believe that Supershadow is legit. I see no real problem with what I quoted." I already told you I didn't mean it. What was so hard to understand? And you claim I don't understand plain english? Hah.

"I've also said that I'm Britney Spears. However it doesn't make it true. Or does it? Don't think so! Do you? And no, I don't think that SS is "legit."" That is what I said. How much clearer can one make it? And yet you didn't understand?

Originally posted by tauros
Now, since you'll just probably come with another of your repetitive posts, I'll be nice and answer to some of your questions, then I'll go to sleep. good for you, too bad you are being the repetative one

Originally posted by tauros
Firstly, I've never said the secret apprentice is the most powerful ever, never even hinted that. I can source, and I can debate. I can understand plain english. I don't think SuperShadow is legit. I stray off-topic only when necessary, and I don't remember doing so often. This conversation right here is certainly off-topic, but it is you who started it..
1. we thought you said otherwise..
2. if you can source, then why dont you ever show us?
3. actually i belive someone else did...i cant remeber who, but s/he brought the thread off topic by going on about the SA bringing a star destroyer down

Originally posted by tauros
Now, "All this crap about bears really has nothing to do with the debate at hand. Not even about sentience." It was just to point out that your whole speech about flies has nothing to do with the debate at hand either, or my quote about billions of flies liking poo. You weren't bright enough to spot the point, just as I suspected. i thought you were using this as a poor analogy

Originally posted by tauros
"More stupidity. There will be no new novel about Tulak Hord. There will, however, be a novel about Darth Andeddu."
Are you saying that the novel about Darth Andeddu is the last novel ever to be released about Star Wars? No? Then why couldn't they make one after that? And you claimed it's more stupidity from me..? Sigh. if im reading all this right, you apparently stated that you had a source that came from the new "tulak horde" book, which isnt coming out, and therefor doesnt exist, which means you were lying about your source..

Yes, I need to be a little repetitive since mr. Caedus doesn't get it the first time.

We?
Read.
Riiight.

That's something you shouldn't have revealed.

You're not reading it right.