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Who wins this Multiversal battle

Thanos was above LT.

Thanos HOTI >> LT = / > Scathan >> Infinites >> Phoenix

Thanos wins without even getting out of his chair!

THOTI

Thanos

I though Thanos with HOTU is even stronger then.....Anything

Yep HOTU is toaas power he crushes these guy with the slightest thought

Is the HOTU multiversal? I thought it only worked in the 616 universe?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Is the HOTU multiversal? I thought it only worked in the 616 universe?
THOTI was the greatest source of power ever to appear in all of Marvel. (Omniverse)

Imo, only when it comes to the Infinity Being, or classic Beyonder,
is there a possible debate.

How? Hotu had toaas power.

Originally posted by Mr Master
THOTI was the greatest source of power ever to appear in all of Marvel. (Omniverse)

Imo, only when it comes to the Infinity Being, or classic Beyonder,
is there a possible debate.

Ok, thanks. I know the IG was multiversal. I wasn't sure about the Heart though.

it doesn't exist anymore

Originally posted by CaPz

How? Hotu had toaas power.
THOTI makes one the Almighty Supreme being, withIN the Omniverse,
one could argue that Beyonder and the Infinity Being,
were Almighty Supreme beings in their own right.

The Beyonder was created by Shooter,
to be another "God" separate from the one associated with the Marvel Universe.
In fact,
Beyonder's Multiverse was completely disconnected from the prime Marvel Multiverse,
so hence, the Beyonder's reality was like another company withIN Marvel.
(best way I can explain it by paraphrasing Shooter's own words)

The Infinity Being originally created all of Marvel, (all it's realities)
and was considered the Supreme being of the previous Universe,
the Infinity Being was everything, and everything was it,
it had no peers, it was absolute, and all of infinity was in it's power.

That's basically the same thing that Thanos acquired,
power over all of infinity in Marvel,
in other words, absolute power over all of Marvel; (or the Marvel Omniverse)

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Ok, thanks. I know the IG was multiversal.
I wasn't sure about the Heart though.
The IG is trans-multiversal if you ask me.

IG makes one "God" beneath the LT.

That means that everyone beneath the LT, is beneath the IG,
and the IG is an incomplete Infinity Being ... so go figure.

Infinity Being must've been no joke,
and Beyonder definitely was.

Originally posted by Mr Master
THOTI makes one the Almighty Supreme being, withIN the Omniverse,
one could argue that Beyonder and the Infinity Being,
were Almighty Supreme beings in their own right.

The Beyonder was created by Shooter,
to be another "God" separate from the one associated with the Marvel Universe.
In fact,
Beyonder's Multiverse was completely disconnected from the prime Marvel Multiverse,
so hence, the Beyonder's reality was like another company withIN Marvel.
(best way I can explain it by paraphrasing Shooter's own words)

The Infinity Being originally created all of Marvel, (all it's realities)
and was considered the Supreme being of the previous Universe,
the Infinity Being was everything, and everything was it,
it had no peers, it was absolute, and all of infinity was in it's power.

That's basically the same thing that Thanos acquired,
power over all of infinity in Marvel,
in other words, absolute power over all of Marvel; (or the Marvel Omniverse)


The IG is trans-multiversal if you ask me.

IG makes one "God" beneath the LT.

That means that everyone beneath the LT, is beneath the IG,
and the IG is an incomplete Infinity Being ... so go figure.

Infinity Being must've been no joke,
and Beyonder definitely was.

very interesting read thumbup1

Originally posted by Mr Master
THOTI makes one the Almighty Supreme being, withIN the Omniverse,
one could argue that Beyonder and the Infinity Being,
were Almighty Supreme beings in their own right.

The Beyonder was created by Shooter,
to be another "God" separate from the one associated with the Marvel Universe.
In fact,
Beyonder's Multiverse was completely disconnected from the prime Marvel Multiverse,
so hence, the Beyonder's reality was like another company withIN Marvel.
(best way I can explain it by paraphrasing Shooter's own words)

The Infinity Being originally created all of Marvel, (all it's realities)
and was considered the Supreme being of the previous Universe,
the Infinity Being was everything, and everything was it,
it had no peers, it was absolute, and all of infinity was in it's power.

That's basically the same thing that Thanos acquired,
power over all of infinity in Marvel,
in other words, absolute power over all of Marvel; (or the Marvel Omniverse)


The IG is trans-multiversal if you ask me.

IG makes one "God" beneath the LT.

That means that everyone beneath the LT, is beneath the IG,
and the IG is an incomplete Infinity Being ... so go figure.

Infinity Being must've been no joke,
and Beyonder definitely was. Interesting. would you put classic molecule man above the infinity being? and Is the infinity being above LT?

Thanos wins.

Always bothered me how Molecule was ranked so highly i mean he is very very amazing but how he got his powers is sooo mundane and yet he is up there with the likes of cosmic beings and gods lol

Originally posted by Lord Feron

very interesting read thumbup1

Originally posted by CaPz

Interesting.

1. would you put classic molecule man above the infinity being?

2. and Is the infinity being above LT?

1. Nah, MM was the closest thing to the Beyonder,
but the Infinity Being did not exist at this point,
besides, the Infinity Being created MM, because it created everything.
The Infinity Being did not however create classic Beyonder,
since Beyonder's realm was a separate reality all its own.
According to Shooter (creator/writer of Secret Wars I-II and Editor in-Chief at the time)
literally stated that he created Beyonder to be "God" before Genesis.
(that's insane)


2. That's a good question,
and we've debated this in my personal thread in the past,
we came to the conclusion that the Infinity Being would've been above the LT.
The Infinity Being was seemingly in the previous Universe,
what the THOTI made Thanos in the current Universe.

Originally posted by Lord Feron

Always bothered me how Molecule was ranked so highly i mean he is very very amazing but how he got his powers is sooo mundane and yet he is up there with the likes of cosmic beings and gods lol
It's in Mankind's destiny to become and rule the entire Omniverse,
one day, Mankind will literally have the LT bowing down to them.

This is the fate of Man/Woman, (the Human race) to become Eternitys themselves,
to control their own beginnings/finalities,
to become one with "God" ...

So, it's not too surprising when we see Human evolution equalling/surpassing the cosmics,
someday, it will not be just an anomaly here and there like Owen Reece,
someday ... every Human being will personify "God-like" cosmics, including Aunt May.

Owen Reece

Originally posted by Mr Master
Imo, only when it comes to the Infinity Being is there a possible debate

Nah.

Originally posted by Mr Master
or classic Beyonder

With CB yes.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Beyonder was created by Shooter

That is why it can be a debate.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Infinity Being originally created all of Marvel, (all it's realities)
and was considered the Supreme being of the previous Universe,
the Infinity Being was everything, and everything was it,
it had no peers, it was absolute, and all of infinity was in it's power.

That's basically the same thing that Thanos acquired,
power over all of infinity in Marvel,
in other words, absolute power over all of Marvel; (or the Marvel Omniverse)

Still no. He is not absolute like THOTI (in terms of power), the power of TOAA. THOTI would probably still make out of IB like he did with everyone else, no matter what IB achieved and made. Nothing can compare to THOTI in terms of absolute.
IB was creted by TOAA and was given some kind of a job (to create Marvel Omniverse, except if IB literally had the power of TOAA like Thanos, or was only empowered or of course created to do his job and to be what he was in the previous, but was never stated like with THOTI), Thanos had his power. And IB was actually ended.

But we can debate that they pretty much have an equal feat (except that THOTI destroyed the opposition), but logical tells us that in a battle THOTI would prevail, because no one can challenge TOAA.
That is about TOAA, trully omnipotent, no matter how powerful someone is, Protege, SW, Scathan, especially LT, they seem truly omnipotent, but when TOAA comes, everything else becomes insignificant (like proven with THOTI).

Where was it shown HOTU was multiversal?

Nothing within the Omniverse can step up to the HOTU, numbers dont make a difference.

Originally posted by CaPz
How? Hotu had toaas power.

I can respect MR Masters when he says it was a supreme power, but when was it proven it was TOAA's Power? it is an assumption that has never been proven(if it has point me to it)...i understand if people assume it is....but i need proof

Originally posted by starlock
I can respect MR Masters when he says it was a supreme power, but when was it proven it was TOAA's Power? it is an assumption that has never been proven(if it has point me to it)...i understand if people assume it is....but i need proof

There is a scan on panel which it says he is GOD, he has the power of Almighty, the one who is everything. The power for whom nothing should be impossible. Also Eternity says to Thanos to give up the supreme power. And then he also punks the Marvel Universe like nothing, so there you go. There are surely scan on this forum. I am sure that someone here can put them up and show you. It's no an assumption.

There are more quotes in the comics about him having the supreme power (Marvel Universe - The End #5).

Originally posted by Xplosive
There is a scan on panel which it says he is GOD, he has the power of Almighty, the one who is everything. The power for whom nothing should be impossible. Also Eternity says to Thanos to give up the supreme power. And then he also punks the Marvel Universe like nothing, so there you go. There are surely scan on this forum. I am sure that someone here can put them up and show you. It's no an assumption.

There are more quotes in the comics about him having the supreme power (Marvel Universe - The End #5).

I agree...and i have seen these scans and i have read the comic...but where is the proof?

When a poster sums up his view with "there you go" i expect proof, not assumptions...where is it stated...show me and i will gladly apologize

Show me a scan stating thanos had The One Above All's Power...that would be proof enough...not the power being called supreme....not that thanos was tricked by a supreme power...not the power for whom nothing should be impossible....not thanos punking the MU

Don't you think even if its true...that the purpose of the writer was to intentionally to leave it out...i mean it is simple to just add the words in the story...if the writers are purposely leaving it out....who are you to tell me with certainty that it was TOAA's power...it is your opinon nothing more...and it might be that a majority believe it is so....it does not change the fact that there is no proof


And i am not here to upset or disrespect you in any way...i rather like your debating here, so no hard feelings

Originally posted by Xplosive
Nah.
Actually, Ya!

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1466/in1hy6.th.jpg

"This Being was the only Living Thing that Existed within Any and ALL Realities"

"It ALL That Was and ALL that Was, Was it "


Then Thanos says,

"I wouldn't blame you for calling it GOD ...

What other name would fit?"


(which makes sense)
................................................................................


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7470/in2uq6.th.jpg

"ALL That Was, Was already Part of Itself ... there was NO Other in it's Life"

"It chose to put an End to itself ...

from it's Ashes rose ALL That is currently Reality ... in ALL it's many forms"

................................................................................


Diana of the Dark Shoppe (from another Multiverse) basically tells the same tale:

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2944/in3gn0.th.jpg

"Many Millennia ago in your Universe, (the Prime Multiverse that is)
there was a God with the power of Infinity,
even with control of ALL that is,
the God's loneliness could not be soothed, by his own hand he died"

................................................................................


The Infinity Being is still that Entity that was once the ONLY Sentience in all of Marvel,
until it committed suicide cause it had no peers.
.............................................................................

And This Truth, has NEVER been retconned:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Infinity_Gems

"The Infinity Gems ...
Each one allows its owner complete Omnipotence ...
wielded together, nothing is impossible for their bearer ...

The Gems were actually once part of the primordial entity Nemesis,
who, eons ago,
ended its existence rather than live as the ONLY sentience in the Universe."

.............................................................................

In fact,

Marvel.com states the Infinity Gauntlet grants,

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Infinity_Gauntlet_%28item%29

Powers: "Absolute Omnipotence when the Gems are used altogether"

.............................................................................

=================================

The IG alone makes one "God" (absolute Omnipotence) beneath the LT,
and that's just a partial demonstration of the Infinity Being. ====

=================================


Originally posted by Xplosive

With CB yes.
As with the Infinity Being, imo.

For reasons proven above.

Originally posted by Xplosive

That is why it can be a debate.
Right, ... caaaause that's all I posted. dontgetit

Perhaps you should try the rest of my post below you left out:
Originally posted by Mr Master

The Beyonder was created by Shooter,
to be another "God" separate from the one associated with the Marvel Universe.

In fact,

Beyonder's Multiverse was completely disconnected from the prime Marvel Multiverse,
so hence, the Beyonder's reality was like another company withIN Marvel.

(best way I can explain it by paraphrasing Shooter's own words)
The PROOF .. as always!

.............................................................................

Jim Shooter - creator/writer of Secret Wars/Beyonder
(while he was Editor in chief of Marvel)

Get's interviewed ... about the Beyonder.

.............................................................................

Marvel Age is an official Marvel title, created to strictly discuss Marvel stories,
and other intricacies concerning Marvel comics.
.............................................................................

Jim Shooter himself describes classic Beyonder:

Jim states:

1. Beyonder "is a Multi-verse."

2. Beyonder "was like God before there was Genesis."

3. Beyonder's discovery of "our Universe ...

.... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scope ...

.... and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ... "

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3339/jim1wp8.th.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7402/jim2mj1.th.jpg

Originally posted by Xplosive

Still no. He is not absolute like THOTI (in terms of power), the power of TOAA. THOTI would probably still make out of IB like he did with everyone else,
no matter what IB achieved and made.
Nothing can compare to THOTI in terms of absolute.
It seems you're not familiar with what the Infinity Being was.

Well, now with the proof I presented, you know the facts.

The Infinity Being was absolute, as absolute as one can get.

Originally posted by Xplosive

IB was creted by TOAA and was given some kind of a job
(to create Marvel Omniverse)
Interesting, I would love for you to prove that.

Because that's never been stated, and/or depicted anywhere, ever.

In fact,
it was I who speculated that TOAA used the Infinity Being as his creation tool,
but there'a NO proof of that in any comic or bio.

Originally posted by Xplosive

except if IB literally had the power of TOAA like Thanos,
or was only empowered
or of course created to do his job and to be what he was in the previous,
but was never stated like with THOTI), Thanos had his power.
I never said the Infinity Being had anything to do with TOAA.

And btw. ... Thanos had the power of TOAA withIN the Omniverse,
but Thanos did NOT have the power of Toaa/God's avatars,
Toaa/God's avatars (FF#511) create and draw everything that takes place On Panel,
including LT/Thanos/THOTI/IB and anything else.


Again, as depicted/stated On Panel above:

The Infinity Being was the only individual Sentience in all Creation,
every other particle in existence was part of the Infinity Being,
the Infinity Being was God absolute and only in the previous Universe.

Originally posted by Xplosive

And IB was actually ended.
THOTI ended as well in case you forgot.

The Infinity Being committed suicide, it ended itself!

Thanos destroyed THOTI.


So, it's the same outcome for both.

Originally posted by Xplosive

But we can debate that they pretty much have an equal feat
(except that THOTI destroyed the opposition)
And Beyonder scared the opposition,
including the LT who wasn't scared to attack Thanos.

As far as equal feats are concerned, No way friend.

Beyonder has the greatest feat ever in Marvel under his belt.

Beyonder created a Universe,
that was infinitely bigger than the prime Multiverse,
and,
was Millions of times more powerful than all the combined power in the prime Multiverse.

To this day,
ALL the Cosmic hierarchal power of Marvel is concentrated withIN the Prime Multiverse.

Originally posted by Xplosive

but logical tells us that in a battle THOTI would prevail,
because no one can challenge TOAA.
That is about TOAA, trully omnipotent, no matter how powerful someone is, Protege, SW, Scathan, especially LT, they seem truly omnipotent,
but when TOAA comes, everything else becomes insignificant
(like proven with THOTI).
Unfortunately this is THOTI, Not TOAA!

TOAA/God created and drew the HOTI on a piece of paper,
and made a story out of it called "The End: Marvel"

Again, THOTI is Toaa/God's power withIN the Omniverse,
but THOTI does not literally make one Toaa/God situated in "Marvel heaven."

Originally posted by starlock

but where is the proof?

Show me a scan stating thanos had The One Above All's Power...
that would be proof enough...

who are you to tell me with certainty that it was TOAA's power...
it is your opinon nothing more...and it might be that a majority believe it is so....

it does not change the fact that there is no proof

(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook 2006 - LT - bio)
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5738/lt1df4.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"

......................................................................................

Logic dictates that ONLY TOAA or a power = to or superior could defeat the LT:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1825/teb9.th.jpg

LT gets stomped!

......................................................................................


The rest of this evidence below,
simply solidifies the scans right above:

..................................................................................................

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9954/th17wg4.th.jpg

Thanos says:

"Eternity, you must sense that Everything the Almighty was I now am,

did you ever dare demand anything from Him"


Eternity responds,

"No, but" .... (Eternity is actually acknowledging that Thanos speaks the truth)

..................................................................................................

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/500/th18br2.th.jpg

"And I, like He was, am now the Author of All That Will Be ...

my Will is Supreme"


noneyes


.............................................................................

Like I said, it was also confirmed in official handbook Bios:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2069/akbioyu7.th.jpg

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................


THOTI is:

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7385/th1mn4.th.jpg

"The Source from which all other power throughout Time & Space springs"

.............................................................................


It made Thanos "SUPREME"

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/39/t2lo0.th.jpg

.............................................................................


It made Thanos Everything ... of All things in the Marvel Omniverse:

................................................................................

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3922/43563012fv8.th.jpg

"How dare these cretins defy their Supreme Being?

Was I not Now the End-All and Be-All of Reality?

Their very existence was by My Whim"

...............................................................................


Indeed!

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg

"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"

................................................................................


................................................................................


If you still think this isn't sufficient evidence,
that's fine.

But imo, this is an insurmountable amount of undeniable proof.

Originally posted by Mr Master
(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook 2006 - LT - bio)
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5738/lt1df4.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"

......................................................................................

Logic dictates that ONLY TOAA or a power = to or superior could defeat the LT:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1825/teb9.th.jpg

LT gets stomped!

......................................................................................


The rest of this evidence below,
simply solidifies the scans right above:

..................................................................................................

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9954/th17wg4.th.jpg

Thanos says:

"Eternity, you must sense that Everything the Almighty was I now am,

did you ever dare demand anything from Him"


Eternity responds,

"No, but" .... (Eternity is actually acknowledging that Thanos speaks the truth)

..................................................................................................

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/500/th18br2.th.jpg

"And I, like He was, am now the Author of All That Will Be ...

my Will is Supreme"


noneyes


.............................................................................

Like I said, it was also confirmed in official handbook Bios:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2069/akbioyu7.th.jpg

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................


THOTI is:

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7385/th1mn4.th.jpg

"The Source from which all other power throughout Time & Space springs"

.............................................................................


It made Thanos "SUPREME"

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/39/t2lo0.th.jpg

.............................................................................


It made Thanos Everything ... of All things in the Marvel Omniverse:

................................................................................

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3922/43563012fv8.th.jpg

"How dare these cretins defy their Supreme Being?

Was I not Now the End-All and Be-All of Reality?

Their very existence was by My Whim"

...............................................................................


Indeed!

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg

"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"

................................................................................


................................................................................


If you still think this isn't sufficient evidence,
that's fine.

But imo, this is an insurmountable amount of undeniable proof.

Sorry, but with all due respect, it is not what i asked for, and it is only evidence for an assumption, it is not definitive proof.... only an opinon...thats all

Originally posted by starlock

Sorry, but with all due respect, it is not what i asked for,
and it is only evidence for an assumption, it is not definitive proof....
only an opinon...thats all
As you wish. That's your honest opinion and I'll respect that.

I'd like to know something though,
what do you make of this?
Originally posted by Mr Master

(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook 2006 - LT - bio)
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5738/lt1df4.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"

......................................................................................

Logic dictates that ONLY TOAA or a power = to or superior to TOAA could defeat the LT:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1825/teb9.th.jpg

LT being defeated easily.

......................................................................................
We know Thanos has "someone's" power,
there's no denying that, I'm sure you'll agree.

And if according to Marvel,
the ONLY power above the Living Tribunal's is TOAA's,
who's power do you believe Thanos has?

Originally posted by Mr Master
As you wish. That's your honest opinion and I'll respect that.

I'd like to know something though,
what do you make of this?

We know Thanos has "someone's" power,
there's no denying that, I'm sure you'll agree.

And if according to Marvel,
the ONLY power above the Living Tribunal's is TOAA's,
who's power do you believe Thanos has? God?:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/th_thanos_god1.jpg


mmm



======



http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/dp1.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
As you wish. That's your honest opinion and I'll respect that.

I'd like to know something though,
what do you make of this?

We know Thanos has "someone's" power,
there's no denying that, I'm sure you'll agree.

And if according to Marvel,
the ONLY power above the Living Tribunal's is TOAA's,
who's power do you believe Thanos has?

To be fair, i can see your point...but the fact that LT's only superior is TOAA, does not make the HOTU his power...does that make the Beyonder TOAA's power? just because we have seen a power that clearly defeated LT does not mean its the proof we need


I have a question also...If a writer goes out of his way to not use the words TOAA......and i would think you would agree that its on purpose, than is not the writer purposely leaving it unknown....and if so who are we to say that it is TOAA's power?

This is not a versus match were we can come together and debate an outcome, where appearences are scanned and used to see an outcome and try and sway peoples opinon...... its about definitive proof it was TOAA's power...which noone has produced.....i have no problem with someone saying they have an opinon it is TOAA's power

Originally posted by Mr Master
As you wish. That's your honest opinion and I'll respect that.

I'd like to know something though,
what do you make of this?

We know Thanos has "someone's" power,
there's no denying that, I'm sure you'll agree.

And if according to Marvel,
the ONLY power above the Living Tribunal's is TOAA's,
who's power do you believe Thanos has?

for all we know it could be the power of some punk kid from the 31st century he was above the LT as was scathan
(some theorise he was acting on behalf of tooa)

Originally posted by xjustice69x
for all we know it could be the power of some punk kid from the 31st century he was above the LT as was scathan
(some theorise he was acting on behalf of tooa)

Protege.....i see your point...which is...we dont have definitive proof on panel or in a handbook who's power it was....and i am sorry Galaan but common sense is not the right tool to work on this problem..it is flawed

Originally posted by starlock

To be fair, i can see your point...

Originally posted by starlock

but the fact that LT's only superior is TOAA,
does not make the HOTU his power...
just because we have seen a power that clearly defeated LT
does not mean its the proof we need

Originally posted by starlock

does that make the Beyonder TOAA's power?
The Beyonder was Shooter's boy,
Shooter created the Beyonder, Shooter was the Writer of Secret Wars I and II,
Shooter was also the Editor in-Chief of Marvel at the time.

The Beyonder (according to Shooter description of him)
would've been completely disconnected from Toaa and his creation,
because the Beyonder was a "God" unto himself,
because Beyonder existed separated from the Marvel Universe in his own Reality,
because Beyonder existed before the "God" of the Marvel Universe started Genesis.

Shooter had considered the Marvel Universe ... "Our Universe" (as in yours and mine)

So,
basically the answer to your question is, no, because of said reasons above.

Originally posted by starlock

I have a question also...
If a writer goes out of his way to not use the words TOAA......
and i would think you would agree that its on purpose,
than is not the writer purposely leaving it unknown....
and if so who are we to say that it is TOAA's power?
The writer also went out of his way to indeed make it clear it was the Supreme Being's power.

The Supreme Being of Marvel is TOAA

And again,
Marvel clearly states in their Handbooks that ONLY TOAA>LT

THOTI>LT

Originally posted by starlock

This is not a versus match were we can come together and debate an outcome,
where appearences are scanned and used to see an outcome
and try and sway peoples opinon......
its about definitive proof it was TOAA's power...which noone has produced.....
As you wish, your opinion is respected, but disagreed with.
Originally posted by starlock

i have no problem with someone saying they have an opinon it is TOAA's power
There ya go, peace and love always.

To be fair, if its stated that LT has no superior other than the mysterious TOAA, only for a power to come along and trump his, that doesn't automatically make that power TOAA's.

Logic would dictate that it is. You're right in saying that Mr Master. Thats a reasonable assumption to make, however that is ALL it is. An assumption.

It is NOT canon fact that the HOTI is the supreme beings power. LT doesn't recognise it as such on panel and his power is said to stem from TOAA's. No bio in existence recognises it as such.

Thanos said on panel that he was god with this power. He said that he was the supreme being. Whilst he was undoutably vastly powerful and more so than any being he faced, that does not equate to him ACTUALLY being the supreme being.

As far as we know for a fact. Thanos gained power that made him more powerful than just about any being Marvel has ever shown. Supreme power within reality?

THE supreme being? Not necessarily

Originally posted by xjustice69x

for all we know
it could be the power of some punk kid from the 31st century
he was above the LT
as was scathan
(some theorise he was acting on behalf of tooa)
Interesting,
can you show me when Protege or Scathan were ever depicted as being above the LT.

Because on panel,
Protege copied the LT's power,
but Protege never confronted the LT, Protege never defeated the LT.

(so I can't see how THOTI is Protege's power)

Scathan muzzled amped Protege, making Protege ineffective.
the LT had the final judgement, even directing Scathan,
the LT was the one that absorbed Protege.

Btw. Protege had been absorbed nearly 10 years before "The End: Marvel"

Phoenixs power was said to be second only to TOAA's, does that mean a Shiar canon was channeling the power of TOAA?

No it means Phoenix got taken out by a Shiar canon.

Things change. No character or hierarchy is set in stone. LT said he has no superior other than TOAA. Subsequently a comic came out where he got stomped.

It would be understandable for people to ASSUME that this power was then TOAA's, however that assumption is not fact, as the point was never verified by an official source. It could just be the case that the hierarchy got revised once again.

Not saying that IS the case, saying that could be. See what i did there? I'm admitting i dont know for a fact, therefore im not going to treat my speculation or assumption as fact in a debate where fact should reign supreme.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

To be fair, if its stated that LT has no superior other than the mysterious TOAA, only for a power to come along and trump his,
that doesn't automatically make that power TOAA's.
I disagree.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Logic would dictate that it is. You're right in saying that Mr Master.
Thats a reasonable assumption to make, however that is ALL it is.
An assumption.
Imo, there's no room for interpretation,
but ... as you wish.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

It is NOT canon fact that the HOTI is the supreme beings power.

LT doesn't recognise it as such on panel
and his power is said to stem from TOAA's.

Thanos erased the LT and all of Time-Space (all reality/all existence)

ONLY TOAA > LT

THOTI > LT

That's my opinion (if we can call it an opinion)
and nothing's gonna change that,
unless there's on panel proof that says otherwise.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

No bio in existence recognises it as such.
Except for Thanos' own Bio:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Thanos said on panel that he was god with this power.
He said that he was the supreme being.
And Eternity/Thor and Warlock all acknowledged that as fact.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Whilst he was undoutably vastly powerful and more so than any being he faced, that does not equate to him ACTUALLY being the supreme being.

As far as we know for a fact. Thanos gained power that made him more powerful than just about any being Marvel has ever shown.
Supreme power within reality?

THE supreme being? Not necessarily
I agree THOTI was the most powerful force ever in current continuity.

But,
I disagree on the other point,
according to the plethora of evidence, Thanos was the Supreme Being.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Phoenixs power was said to be second only to TOAA's,
does that mean a Shiar canon was channeling the power of TOAA?

No it means Phoenix got taken out by a Shiar canon.
This is inconsequential.

Phoenix has never created even a single universe on panel,
Phoenix has never destroyed more than a single Universe twice, both times in "What If" issues.
Phoenix has never defeated Eternity or Infinity let alone the Living Tribunal.

So you're right on one thing,
there really is absolute NO reason whatsoever,
why Phoenix would ever be thought to be "second to TOAA"

Unlike THOTI, which did erase all of Space-Time,
did absorb the entire Hierarchy including the Living Tribunal,
did re-create all existence/reality in Space-Time including the LT.


Big, I mean big difference,
between unsupported Phoenix hyperbole,
and what THOTI literally did On Panel.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Things change. No character or hierarchy is set in stone.
LT said he has no superior other than TOAA.
Subsequently a comic came out where he got stomped.

It would be understandable for people to ASSUME that this power was then TOAA's, however that assumption is not fact, as the point was never verified by an official source. It could just be the case that the hierarchy got revised once again.
What,
based on the hyperbolic statement made by a single source about Phoenix?

That was never, has never,
and still hasn't come even remotely close to being a plausibility?

You got jokes.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Not saying that IS the case, saying that could be. See what i did there? I'm admitting i dont know for a fact, therefore im not going to treat my speculation or assumption as fact in a debate where fact should reign supreme.
Fact: According to Marvel, ONLY TOAA > LT

Fact: THOTI > LT

Yall decide what that means.

Originally posted by Galan007

God?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/th_thanos_god1.jpg

mmm

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/dp1.jpg
and ...

Originally posted by starlock

Protege.....i see your point...which is...

we dont have definitive proof on panel
or in a handbook who's power it was...
You "see his point?"

Protege has absolutely nothing to with THOTI or the events in "The End: Marvel"

Protege was erased from existence 9 years prior.

Also, Protege never proved to be above the LT,
neither did Scathan.

Of course theres room for interpretation, the point isnt verified by any official source.

Hierarchy changes regularly in comics. Because LT said he was second to only God, does not mean that in subsequent comics where he was defeated that the power Thanos wielded was Gods.

It could mean that the hierarchy changed.

That is a possibility that cant be denied. The very fact that such a possibility exists is because there is no official verification of the point youre trying to make. Therefore there is very much room for interpretation.

Thanos claiming to be the supreme being and someone in his presence not disagreeing on panel, does not equate to agreement. It just means they said nothing.

On top of that Lower beings can be forgiven for not contradicting Thanos' assertions because as far as their comparatively limited perceptions allow them to know, the power Thanos wielded was supreme.

LT who works for TOAA made no such agreement. LT who abides by the power of TOAA stood against Thanos.

The power Thanos wielded made him the supreme being of reality. That doesnt equate to the supreme being. Its different.

I'm quite certain that Eternity and his counterparts dont compose the sum of all that is Marvel.

You use Marvel.com when it suits your purpose, otherwise you condemn it as fan composed in cases where the site contradicts your argument

Can you post some scans of Thanos' most recent bio stating whats said on that link please?

No selectively cropped paragraphs. Just throw in the whole thing, i've got good eyes

Originally posted by Mr Master
and ...


You "see his point?"

Protege has absolutely nothing to with THOTI or the events in "The End: Marvel"

Protege was erased from existence 9 years prior.

Also, Protege never proved to be above the LT,
neither did Scathan.

The point is he is guessing...just like everyone else who thinks its TOAA's Power

It's a openion starlock, like GS and you discredit it as being the Supremes Power, Galan and Mr Master thinks the statements and the On Panel showing is enough to make that conclusion. In the end it really doesn't matter much Thanos still wins.

One question have the TOAA ever been mentioned as The One Above all in Comics???

Originally posted by Utrigita
One question have the TOAA ever been mentioned as The One Above all in Comics???

I don't believe he ever has.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Of course theres room for interpretation, the point isnt verified by any official source.
Not imo.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Hierarchy changes regularly in comics.
Because LT said he was second to only God,
does not mean that in subsequent comics where he was defeated
that the power Thanos wielded was Gods.

It could mean that the hierarchy changed.
I disagree.

The Cosmic Hierarchy has been virtually the same since 1985:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

That is a possibility that cant be denied.
The very fact that such a possibility exists is because there is no official verification of the point youre trying to make.
Therefore there is very much room for interpretation.
I disagree.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Thanos claiming to be the supreme being
and someone in his presence not disagreeing on panel,
does not equate to agreement. It just means they said nothing.
Nice spin on the facts.

But actually, On Panel, Eternity did answer, and his answer was concrete:
Originally posted by Mr Master
..................................................................................................

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9954/th17wg4.th.jpg

Thanos says:

"Eternity, you must sense that Everything the Almighty was I now am,

did you ever dare demand anything from Him"


Eternity responds,

"No, but" .... (Eternity is actually acknowledging that Thanos speaks the truth)

..................................................................................................

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/500/th18br2.th.jpg

"And I, like He was, am now the Author of All That Will Be ...

my Will is Supreme"

.............................................................................

Hmm ... and Thor agrees that Thanos does in fact possess "The Supreme Power" ...

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6682/th1fl1.th.jpg

"Thanos has usurped the Power Supreme,
and now reigns over All Reality"

......................................................................................

So did Eternity:

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5800/th2qb7.th.jpg

"Relinquish the Supreme Power you have stolen"

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

On top of that Lower beings can be forgiven for not contradicting Thanos' assertions because as far as their comparatively limited perceptions allow them to know, the power Thanos wielded was supreme.
So Eternity (embodiment of All Time) is a being of limited perceptions?

Yet, although Eternity/Warlock/Thor said it on panel,
although it was stated in Thanos' bio he became the "SUPREME BEING"
although Thanos proved it by absorbing the LT, all Heroes, and all Space-Time,
we should still dismiss all of their claims, and all of Thanos' actions as evidence.

Cool.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

LT who works for TOAA made no such agreement.
LT who abides by the power of TOAA stood against Thanos.
Is that why LT who works for TOAA,
decided to bring with him practically the entire Marvel Universe to back him up?

Seems like the LT knew Thanos was packing a bigger punch than him,
which tells me the LT recognized Thanos did in fact possess the Supreme Power.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The power Thanos wielded made him the supreme being of reality.
That doesnt equate to the supreme being. Its different.

Master please keep it down this could turn into a interesting discussion to observe

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

I'm quite certain that Eternity and his counterparts
dont compose the sum of all that is Marvel.
Eternity/Infinity's essence/consciousness stretches across the prime Multiverse,
the substance of their form (Space-Time) continues on into the infinite MultiverseS.

Eternity/Infinity and the LT's bio all stated,
that Thanos either erased "All Reality" or "All Existence"

The story was titled: "The End: Marvel"
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

You use Marvel.com when it suits your purpose,
otherwise you condemn it as fan composed in cases where the site contradicts your argument
So basically you're gonna now dismiss Thanos' bio evidence,
by diverting attention to an off-topic drivel concerning your interpretation of my debating tactics.

Nice twist of a spin.

Doesn't change this FACT though:

(excerpt from Thanos' bio)

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Can you post some scans of Thanos' most recent bio
stating whats said on that link please?

No selectively cropped paragraphs.
Just throw in the whole thing, i've got good eyes
Where am I selectively cropping scans?

I posted the freakin link dude,
I quoted the relevant excerpt that pertains to this specific debate.

You claimed there wasn't a bio that stated Thanos was the Supreme Being,

well you were Wrong,
now you wanna wiggle your way around that,
this is where our debates degenerate cause that just pisses me off.

Originally posted by Utrigita
It's a openion starlock, like GS and you discredit it as being the Supremes Power, Galan and Mr Master thinks the statements and the On Panel showing is enough to make that conclusion. In the end it really doesn't matter much Thanos still wins.

One question have the TOAA ever been mentioned as The One Above all in Comics???

Utrigita i know that.... and you would know i know if you would have read my posts...I never even made a attempt to say who would win, i was reading the thread when Xplosive..dubbed the HOTU as TOAA's Power

And i quoted him and got into a discusion with masters...a very respectfull discussion i might add, i said in my post...i dont have a problem with someones opinon, that it is TOAA's power, but when in a vs thread it is stated as definite...i need proof, and i have not seen any....

Originally posted by starlock
Utrigita i know that.... and you would know i know if you would have read my posts...I never even made a attempt to say who would win, i was reading the thread when Xplosive..dubbed the HOTU as TOAA's Power

And i quoted him and got into a discusion with masters...a very respectfull discussion i might add, i said in my post...i dont have a problem with someones opinon, that it is TOAA's power, but when in a vs thread it is stated as definite...i need proof, and i have not seen any....

Sorry my bad just looked over the last post. And the last part of my post was not directed towards you but simply to state my own opinion on who would win the battle.

I will ask my previous question to you too then, Has The One Above All ever been mentioned by that name On panel ore simply by a multitude of references???

Originally posted by starlock
Utrigita i know that.... and you would know i know if you would have read my posts...I never even made a attempt to say who would win, i was reading the thread when Xplosive..dubbed the HOTU as TOAA's Power

And i quoted him and got into a discusion with masters...a very respectfull discussion i might add, i said in my post...i dont have a problem with someones opinon, that it is TOAA's power, but when in a vs thread it is stated as definite...i need proof, and i have not seen any....

I can't remember an instance where the TOAA has ever actually been referred to as TOAA. I think that's just what we call him/ her here to get the point across.

I don't think there will be reference to TOAA as TOAA. But there was reference to THOTI being ALMIGHY, and SUPREME, which are two words that perfectly describe TOAA.

It may or may not be an opinion that THOTI was the Almighty's power. But if it IS an opinion, it's a very well supported opinion......IMO.

Just my two cense

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Thanos was above LT.

Thanos HOTI >> LT = / > Scathan >> Infinites >> Phoenix

Thanos wins without even getting out of his chair!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, Ya!

I already saw the scans, no need to show them again, I know what I am talking about. If you agree, disagree, that's cool.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Right, ... caaaause that's all I posted.

When I said it can be debated between Beyonder and THOTI I meant it. So, you didn't need to bring again those scans. And I already saw them and agreed with you.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It seems you're not familiar with what the Infinity Being was.

Well, now with the proof I presented, you know the facts.

The Infinity Being was absolute, as absolute as one can get

We also don't what was going when IB existed. Who existed with and everything else...
He was absolute, but again, only THOTI is mentioned to be the supreme power within Omniverse, having actually TOAA power within Omniverse. So, literally absolute power form the absolute being. That is enough to be above anyone ever withing Omniverse.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I never said the Infinity Being had anything to do with TOAA.

And btw. ... Thanos had the power of TOAA withIN the Omniverse,
but Thanos did NOT have the power of Toaa/God's avatars,
Toaa/God's avatars (FF#511) create and draw everything that takes place On Panel,
including LT/Thanos/THOTI/IB and anything else.

Yes, but still only with THOTI it was said to be the supreme power.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Infinity Being was the only individual Sentience in all Creation,
every other particle in existence was part of the Infinity Being,
the Infinity Being was God absolute and only in the previous Universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And Beyonder scared the opposition,
including the LT who wasn't scared to attack Thanos.

I was saying about IB and THOTI, not Beyonder. But still, about scaring LT and destroy LT, it's a no contest. THOTI wins here.
Not that Beyonder wouldn't be able, but still, he scared him and others, but that really isn't something.
No need to bring what Beyonder did, I know, I am only talking about that case. Destroying and scaring, THOTI was more impressive here.

Originally posted by Mr Master
TOAA/God created and drew the HOTI on a piece of paper,
and made a story out of it called "The End: Marvel"

Yes, but THOTI is the only thing that TOAA write to give his power within Omniverse, only THOTI. It was never mentioned about IB or anyone else. But Thanos literally wielded the supreme power.
That is why I give THOTI above anyone else in Marvel. IB was absolute when he was, but never said he truly wielded the supreme power in the Marvel. There is the difference.

Without TOAA, LT could be absolute if he went mad and wanted to do what he want. No one would be able to stop him, he could become absolute and end Marvel Omniverse. But when THOTI comes, even such as LT becomes insignificant. Besides Beyonder, THOTI is the only one who shown no limits.
Scarlet Witch was pretty much omnipotent, more than IG ever shown, but we know (can logically assume) when she would face LT she wouldn't be able to do much against him.
That is why I think no matter how powerful, what IB was, against THOTI wouldn't matter much like no one else did. That is my opinion.

Originally posted by starlock
The point is he is guessing...just like everyone else who thinks its TOAA's Power

Yes, literally we are guessing, because there is nowhere said it's TOAA powers, only supreme power, that is why we say THOTI is a TOAA (supreme being) power, supreme power within Omniverse.
But Thanos with THOTI wasn't supreme being, but wielded supreme power.

I think we can safely say it was TOAA power within Omniverse and he actually shown no limitations (something we can expect only from true supreme being).
But the point is that TOAA has never being mentioned as TOAA, even when Stan Lee entered the Marvel and debated with Impossible Man.
But we can guess that he is the true Almighty.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I already saw the scans, no need to show them again,
I know what I am talking about. If you agree, disagree, that's cool.
If you're saying,
that the IB was not the absolute Supreme Being in the previous universe,
then I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're saying.

So yea, I disagree with you.

Originally posted by Xplosive

We also don't what was going when IB existed.

Who existed with and everything else...
Actually right above you just said,
you "know what you're talking about" concerning the IB,
and yet,
now don't know anything about the IB you're saying.

You said you "already seen the scans, no need to see them again"
and now you're saying,
you "don't know what was going on when the IB existed"
"who existed and everything else"

???

I already posted the scans explaining it all, (you said you saw them)
so how can you not know?


The Infinity Being was the embodiment of EVERYTHING in the previous Universe,
the IB had power over EVERYTHING in the previous Universe,
the IB was the "GOD" "Supreme Being"of the previous Universe,
of course it was the Supreme Being (GOD)
because it was the ONLY Sentience in existence.

Everything else, (as in All other life in the previous universe)
was part of the IB's sentience,
this is why the IB was lonely, cause nothing was apart from it.

Originally posted by Xplosive

He was absolute, but again,
only THOTI is mentioned to be the supreme power within Omniverse,
having actually TOAA power within Omniverse.
So, literally absolute power form the absolute being.
That is enough to be above anyone ever withing Omniverse.
Again, they were both absolute powers.

The IB was everything in the previous Universe, with power over everything.

THOTI made Thanos everything in the current Universe, with power over everything.


btw. For the last time,

Thanos did NOT become,
Toaa/god that are creating/drawing what takes place on panel in Marvel heaven.

Thanos became the Toaa/god (Supreme Being withIN the Omniverse.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Yes, but still only with THOTI it was said to be the supreme power.
Well the Infinity Being was the Supreme power of the previous Universe,
the IB was the ONLY Sentience in existence,
the Infinity Being not only originally created ALL the Realities in Marvel
but it also created the Infinity Gems,
(which as we know the IG also makes one God, Supreme Being beneath the LT)

So imagine what the Infinity Being itself would be,
when the IG is only part of it's totality.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I was saying about IB and THOTI, not Beyonder.
But still, about scaring LT and destroy LT, it's a no contest. THOTI wins here.
Not that Beyonder wouldn't be able, but still, he scared him and others,
but that really isn't something.
No need to bring what Beyonder did, I know, I am only talking about that case. Destroying and scaring, THOTI was more impressive here.
I disagree.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Yes, but THOTI is the only thing that TOAA write to give his power within Omniverse,
only THOTI.
It was never mentioned about IB or anyone else.
But Thanos literally wielded the supreme power.
That is why I give THOTI above anyone else in Marvel.
IB was absolute when he was,
but never said he truly wielded the supreme power in the Marvel.
There is the difference.
What the heck are you talking about?

What do you mean nothing was mentioned about the IB having Supreme power?


AGAIN!!!

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1466/in1hy6.th.jpg

"This Being was the only Living Thing that Existed within Any and ALL Realities"

"It ALL That Was and ALL that Was, Was it "


Then Thanos says,

"I wouldn't blame you for calling it GOD ...

What other name would fit?"


(which makes sense)
................................................................................


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7470/in2uq6.th.jpg

"ALL That Was, Was already Part of Itself ... there was NO Other in it's Life"

"It chose to put an End to itself ...

from it's Ashes rose ALL That is currently Reality ... in ALL it's many forms"

................................................................................


Diana of the Dark Shoppe (from another Multiverse) basically tells the same tale:

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2944/in3gn0.th.jpg

"Many Millennia ago in your Universe, (the Prime Multiverse that is)
there was a God with the power of Infinity,
even with control of ALL that is,
the God's loneliness could not be soothed, by his own hand he died"

................................................................................


Originally posted by Xplosive

Without TOAA,
LT could be absolute if he went mad and wanted to do what he want.
No one would be able to stop him,
he could become absolute and end Marvel Omniverse.
But when THOTI comes, even such as LT becomes insignificant.
Besides Beyonder, THOTI is the only one who shown no limits.
Several beings can takes over all of Space-Time in Marvel if they wanted.

The LT is (in a way) the Supreme Being of Marvel, (in terms of power)
but he's really not of course,
because the LT is the voice/representative of Toaa/god in Marvel heaven (sorta speak)

So its no surprise if Toaa/god ceased to exist,
the LT would be the next in line in power.

Although, without Toaa/god in Marvel heaven,
the Marvel Universe would cease to exist as well.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Scarlet Witch was pretty much omnipotent, more than IG ever shown,
but we know (can logically assume)
when she would face LT she wouldn't be able to do much against him.

That is why I think no matter how powerful, what IB was,
against THOTI wouldn't matter much like no one else did. That is my opinion.
Cool, I completely disagree, especially based on your reasoning.

Btw. IG > Scarlet Witch.

Originally posted by Xplosive

that is why we say THOTI is a TOAA (supreme being) power,
supreme power within Omniverse.

But Thanos with THOTI wasn't supreme being, but wielded supreme power.
This didn't make any sense when GS said right here in previous page:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The power Thanos wielded made him the supreme being of reality.

That doesnt equate to the supreme being. Its different.
And it still makes no sense now.

Research your own material,
develop your own opinions,
I know you usually swallow anything he says but,
regurgitating other's fallacies isn't cool

Originally posted by Xplosive

But the point is that TOAA has never being mentioned as TOAA
This isn't true either friend.

The One Above All (referring to LT's master)
has been mentioned several times on panel,
and his name personifying the Supreme Being creator of Marvel,
is confirmed in 2008 Marvel Handbooks:

Here Protege mentions TOAA twice:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4459/toaa1mb2.th.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6671/toaa2be3.th.jpg



Here the LT says, there is ONLY ONE ABOVE the LT:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5056/toaa3sl6.th.jpg


Marvel tells us the name of that ONE entity above the LT:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5738/lt1df4.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"

......................................................................................

Here (On Panel) the LT himself mentions who that one is by name:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4492/toaa4kx0.th.jpg

"May The One Above All forgive you"

......................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbooks of 2008,
also clarify for us what the Marvel Omniverse is,
and,
what TOAA is,
what TOAA did:

......................................................................................

1. Omniverse

2. TOAA

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/928/omni2mz6.th.jpg

1. "Group of alternate universeS which encompasses ALL Reality"

2. The entity believed to be the Supreme being/Creator of the Omniverse"

..........................................................................

..........................................................................


Btw. On Panel evidence agrees 100% with this bio:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7541/omni3py5.th.jpg

"Reality ... Brian came to realize the size and breadth of Reality,
he learned of the Omniverse and its unending alternatives,
Alternative Realities ...
the Omniverse is the collection of All those possibilities"

..........................................................................

Originally posted by Mr Master
If you're saying,
that the IB was not the absolute Supreme Being in the previous universe,
then I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're saying.

So yea, I disagree with you.

I never said he wasn't absolute then. But then again, for IB it's only said he was the only living thing then. So of course he will be absolute.
You don't see what I am trying to say. THOTI and IB were created by TOAA, but only for THOTI is mentioned to be the power directly from TOAA withing the Omniverse. That is enough for me to be above all ever in Marvel Universe.
If you take IB from then somehow and Thanos with THOTI to face each other, I say THOTI makes out of him like he did it with everyone else.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Research your own material,
develop your own opinions,
I know you usually swallow anything he says but,
regurgitating other's fallacies isn't cool

I said that not because of him. It is logical and true and it does make sense (I don't know how you can't see that), THOTI was the supreme power from the absolute being withing the Omniverse, but still the one who wields it, is not the supreme being.
There is still The One Above All

Originally posted by Mr Master
This isn't true either friend.

Ok, I see. Thanks! Cool.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If you're saying,
that the IB was not the absolute Supreme Being in the previous universe,
then I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're saying.

So yea, I disagree with you.


Actually right above you just said,
you "know what you're talking about" concerning the IB,
and yet,
now don't know anything about the IB you're saying.

You said you "already seen the scans, no need to see them again"
and now you're saying,
you "don't know what was going on when the IB existed"
"who existed and everything else"

???

I already posted the scans explaining it all, (you said you saw them)
so how can you not know?


The Infinity Being was the embodiment of EVERYTHING in the previous Universe,
the IB had power over EVERYTHING in the previous Universe,
the IB was the "GOD" "Supreme Being"of the previous Universe,
of course it was the Supreme Being (GOD)
because it was the ONLY Sentience in existence.

Everything else, (as in All other life in the previous universe)
was part of the IB's sentience,
this is why the IB was lonely, cause nothing was apart from it.


Again, they were both absolute powers.

The IB was everything in the previous Universe, with power over everything.

THOTI made Thanos everything in the current Universe, with power over everything.


btw. For the last time,

Thanos did NOT become,
Toaa/god that are creating/drawing what takes place on panel in Marvel heaven.

Thanos became the Toaa/god (Supreme Being withIN the Omniverse.


Well the Infinity Being was the Supreme power of the previous Universe,
the IB was the ONLY Sentience in existence,
the Infinity Being not only originally created ALL the Realities in Marvel
but it also created the Infinity Gems,
(which as we know the IG also makes one God, Supreme Being beneath the LT)

So imagine what the Infinity Being itself would be,
when the IG is only part of it's totality.


I disagree.


What the heck are you talking about?

What do you mean nothing was mentioned about the IB having Supreme power?


AGAIN!!!

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1466/in1hy6.th.jpg

"This Being was the only Living Thing that Existed within Any and ALL Realities"

"It ALL That Was and ALL that Was, Was it "


Then Thanos says,

"I wouldn't blame you for calling it GOD ...

What other name would fit?"


(which makes sense)
................................................................................


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7470/in2uq6.th.jpg

"ALL That Was, Was already Part of Itself ... there was NO Other in it's Life"

"It chose to put an End to itself ...

from it's Ashes rose ALL That is currently Reality ... in ALL it's many forms"

................................................................................


Diana of the Dark Shoppe (from another Multiverse) basically tells the same tale:

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2944/in3gn0.th.jpg

"Many Millennia ago in your Universe, (the Prime Multiverse that is)
there was a God with the power of Infinity,
even with control of ALL that is,
the God's loneliness could not be soothed, by his own hand he died"

................................................................................



Several beings can takes over all of Space-Time in Marvel if they wanted.

The LT is (in a way) the Supreme Being of Marvel, (in terms of power)
but he's really not of course,
because the LT is the voice/representative of Toaa/god in Marvel heaven (sorta speak)

So its no surprise if Toaa/god ceased to exist,
the LT would be the next in line in power.

Although, without Toaa/god in Marvel heaven,
the Marvel Universe would cease to exist as well.


Cool, I completely disagree, especially based on your reasoning.

Btw. IG > Scarlet Witch.


This didn't make any sense when GS said right here in previous page:

And it still makes no sense now.

Research your own material,
develop your own opinions,
I know you usually swallow anything he says but,
regurgitating other's fallacies isn't cool


This isn't true either friend.

The One Above All (referring to LT's master)
has been mentioned several times on panel,
and his name personifying the Supreme Being creator of Marvel,
is confirmed in 2008 Marvel Handbooks:

Here Protege mentions TOAA twice:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4459/toaa1mb2.th.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6671/toaa2be3.th.jpg



Here the LT says, there is ONLY ONE ABOVE the LT:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5056/toaa3sl6.th.jpg


Marvel tells us the name of that ONE entity above the LT:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5738/lt1df4.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"

......................................................................................

Here (On Panel) the LT himself mentions who that one is by name:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4492/toaa4kx0.th.jpg

"May The One Above All forgive you"

......................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbooks of 2008,
also clarify for us what the Marvel Omniverse is,
and,
what TOAA is,
what TOAA did:

......................................................................................

1. Omniverse

2. TOAA

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/928/omni2mz6.th.jpg

1. "Group of alternate universeS which encompasses ALL Reality"

2. The entity believed to be the Supreme being/Creator of the Omniverse"

..........................................................................

..........................................................................


Btw. On Panel evidence agrees 100% with this bio:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7541/omni3py5.th.jpg

"Reality ... Brian came to realize the size and breadth of Reality,
he learned of the Omniverse and its unending alternatives,
Alternative Realities ...
the Omniverse is the collection of All those possibilities"

..........................................................................

Is this the only time TOAA has been mentioned by name??? In a comic filled with PIS, and by a kid that seemed close to insanity???

Originally posted by Xplosive

I never said he wasn't absolute then.
But then again,
for IB it's only said he was the only living thing then.
So of course he will be absolute.
Actually the IB was only Sentience, not the only living thing.

There was an infinite Universe filled with beings of all sorts,
heck, even the PF was there, and it too, was just a part of the IB.

The IB was lonely because everything was a part of it,
so in order to have a separate existence from the rest of reality,
the IB created the current Marvel Universe, which the IB did not encompass,
but the IB wanted to continue to exist,
so the IB also created the Infinity Gems,
in order to exist withIN the current Marvel Universe, and yet still be apart from it.

Originally posted by Xplosive

You don't see what I am trying to say.
THOTI and IB were created by TOAA,
but only for THOTI is mentioned to be the power directly from TOAA withing the Omniverse.
That is enough for me to be above all ever in Marvel Universe.
TOAA created THOTI and the IB,
but THOTI did not create the IB,
and THOTI is not TOAA either.

THOTI makes you the Supreme Being ("God" withIN the Marvel Reality,
but THOTI does not make you the Toaa/God ("writers/artists" situated in Marvel heaven,
Marvel heaven is a fictional representation of the comic studios of Marvel.

The mistake you're making is that you're equating TOAA with THOTI,
and that just isn't the case.

TOAA >infinity> THOTI

Originally posted by Xplosive

If you take IB from then somehow and Thanos with THOTI to face each other, I say THOTI makes out of him like he did it with everyone else.
Who knows,
but imo,
since they were both absolute Supreme Beings (God) over all creation,
there's an argument where the IB stalemates.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I said that not because of him.
It is logical and true and it does make sense
(I don't know how you can't see that)
Still doesn't make sense, not now, not ever.
(I don't know how you can't see that) either.
Originally posted by Xplosive

THOTI was the supreme power from the absolute being withing the Omniverse, but still the one who wields it, is not the supreme being.
There is still The One Above All
TOAA/God, is inconsequential,
cause everything in the Marvel Omniverse is just drawings on a piece of paper to them,
so TOAA/God shouldn't even be categorized with their drawings on paper.

TOAA/God (writers/artists) avatar,
created and drew a story on paper called "The End: Marvel" (a comic book)
a story where THOTI made Thanos the Supreme Being of the Marvel Omniverse.

Simple and plain.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Ok, I see. Thanks! Cool.
Anytime friend.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Is this the only time TOAA has been mentioned by name???
Nah, TOAA has been mentioned several times,
but I didn't think I had to post every instance,
I just wanted to show X that indeed, TOAA has been mentioned on panel,
and confirmed to be exactly that withIN several Handbooks as well.

Originally posted by Utrigita

In a comic filled with PIS, and by a kid that seemed close to insanity???
Never knew he was insane,
but I guess you missed the Living Tribunal mentioning TOAA's name friend:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4492/toaa4kx0.th.jpg

"May The One Above All forgive you"

......................................................................................


This is why I always tell folks,
please review a post before replying to it.

At the end of the day, it has never been officially confirmed that the HOTI was actually the Marvel Gods power.

It was suggested on panel, but never confirmed.

Not a single bio(and there were several which referenced the event) confirmed the HOTI as the supreme beings power.

LT the only being we know who has direct contact with Marvels supreme being, did not acknowledge it as his masters power.

LT who serves his masters wishes even stood up against the power.

Im not saying the power is NOT the supreme beings power, i'm saying it was never officially confirmed only alluded to on panel.

Thanos has called the IG gods power, it conclusively was NOT. It was nothing of the sort. Lower beings of comparatively limited perception and power could and would understandably acknowledge a power as supreme if it is beyond all that they know and hold sacred. To a hero like Thor who is puny in the scheme of things, of course a power beyond the likes of Odin and even the abstracts is going to seem supreme. His word is not gospel.

Eternity knows nothing of the supreme being.Only LT has that honour as far as we know. A power far beyond his own, given who and what he is is going to be supreme as far as he is concerned. His word on matters he has no knowledge of, matters far beyond his understanding similarly is not the gospel truth.

Its like taking the opinion of Jubilee on the inner workings of Galactus and his World Ship as conclusive evidence about a debate regarding Galactus. It just isnt good enough.

The only reputable on panel opinion would be from a character that by canon has interaction with the supreme being and that is LT.

This point cannot be denied.

Whilst your opinion is understandable, it has not been verified as fact, therefore it needs to be made clear in debates that what you're presenting to us is just opinion that is alluded to on panel, but never conclusively proven.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah, TOAA has been mentioned several times,
but I didn't think I had to post every instance,
I just wanted to show X that indeed, TOAA has been mentioned on panel,
and confirmed to be exactly that withIN several Handbooks as well.


Never knew he was insane,
but I guess you missed the Living Tribunal mentioning TOAA's name friend:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4492/toaa4kx0.th.jpg

"May The One Above All forgive you"

......................................................................................


This is why I always tell folks,
please review a post before replying to it.

It's out of curiosity master that I would like this information regarding the direct mention of TOAA's name in more then this one comic one more would survice.

He seemed close to insanity imo based on the fact that he seriously believed that he would gain the power of TOAA by copying the power of LT. And I didn't in any way overlook the scan master, I simply asked the question that IF this was the only place TOAA's name had been mentioned? in a comic that again imo is filled with PIS.

Originally posted by Utrigita

It's out of curiosity master that I would like this information regarding the direct mention of TOAA's name in more then this one comic one more would survice.
Cool.
Originally posted by Utrigita

He seemed close to insanity imo based on the fact that he seriously believed that he would gain the power of TOAA by copying the power of LT.
He bit off more than he could chew, but he wasn't insane,
he was a spoiled brat with absolute power.
Originally posted by Utrigita

And I didn't in any way overlook the scan master,
I simply asked the question that IF this was the only place TOAA's name had been mentioned?
in a comic that again imo is filled with PIS.
Actually you said is this the only mention of Toaa name,
is this pis comic and by an insane boy?

I pointed out the scan where the LT mentioned TOAA's by name.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
At the end of the day
I have my roller skates on.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

At the end of the day,
it has never been officially confirmed that the HOTI was actually the Marvel Gods power.

It was suggested on panel, but never confirmed.
I disagree.

At the beginning and at "the end of the day,"
it was officially confirmed that the HOTI was actually God's power,
that made Thanos the Supreme Being of the Marvel Universe.

It was blatantly presented On Panel, and confirmed in Thanos' bio.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Not a single bio (and there were several which referenced the event) confirmed the HOTI as the supreme beings power.
Really?

Hmm ...


Here's Thanos' 2008 bio: (at the bottom)

Except for Thanos' own Bio:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "

.................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbook as well:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2069/akbioyu7.th.jpg

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

LT the only being we know who has direct contact with Marvels supreme being,
did not acknowledge it as his masters power.

LT who serves his masters wishes even stood up against the power.
LT didn't have to spell it out for us, are you kidding?

LT? ... LT what?

LT tried to go up against Thanos,
because LT knew the power was in the wrong hands, (Thanos')

LT brought with him practically the entire Marvel Universe to Help Him:

=== The Set UP ===

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5121/ltbf6.th.jpg



=== The Attack ===

(Heroes ... and Villains) lol! ... Everyone!

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9886/lt3xv1.th.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7682/lt4uy0.th.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3394/lt5xu5.th.jpg



LT KNEW he was going up against the power that was SUPERIOR to his own.



We KNOW what that ONLY power that's SUPERIOR to the LT is:


(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook - LT bio 2006)
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5738/lt1df4.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal's ONLY Superior is TOAA"

......................................................................................

Does it really need to get any clearer?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Im not saying the power is NOT the supreme beings power,
i'm saying it was never officially confirmed only alluded to on panel.
I completely disagree.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Thanos has called the IG gods power, it conclusively was NOT.
It was nothing of the sort.
Thnaos never called the IG god's power,
he and others called him and Warlock "God,"
and indeed they were,
but the LT serves one who is above even "Gods"

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7757/ltorderswl0iy.th.jpg

The IG was thought to be the "supreme power,"
until we saw the LT's authority and power above it on panel and confirmed in his bio.

BIG difference friend!

The IG was depicted as being below the LT,
while THOTI was depicted as being above the LT.

ONLY power above the LT's is TOAA's.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Lower beings of comparatively limited perception and power could
and would understandably acknowledge a power as supreme
if it is beyond all that they know and hold sacred.
To a hero like Thor who is puny in the scheme of things,
of course a power beyond the likes of Odin and even the abstracts
is going to seem supreme. His word is not gospel.
LOL!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Eternity knows nothing of the supreme being.
Only LT has that honour as far as we know.
A power far beyond his own,
given who and what he is is going to be supreme as far as he is concerned. His word on matters he has no knowledge of,
matters far beyond his understanding similarly is not the gospel truth.
Yo, this is just hilarious.

Eternity's "Lord and Master" is the Almighty Supreme Being TOAA/God.

Thanos knew "Eternity could SENSE" he had become the new Supreme Being because of this:

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3120/lt2fc6.th.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Its like taking the opinion of Jubilee on the inner workings of Galactus and his World Ship as conclusive evidence about a debate regarding Galactus. It just isnt good enough.
This is inconsequential to this scenario,
but don't think I don't appreciate the reach.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The only reputable on panel opinion would be from a character that by canon has interaction with the supreme being and that is LT.
This is false,
the conversation between Thanos and Eternity clearly indicates,
that Eternity ALSO has a relation with the Supreme Being.

Don't play yourself.

Jim Starlin made it clear through out the arc,
from the mouths of many characters, (Starlin speaking really)
he gave Thanos the power to absorb the LT easily,

uhh ... nuff said.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Whilst your opinion is understandable, it has not been verified as fact, therefore it needs to be made clear in debates that what you're presenting to us is just opinion that is alluded to on panel, but never conclusively proven.
It's an opinion ... in your opinion,
that's the only thing that should be made clear.

Okay GS, just what WOULD have needed to be said for you to think it was conclusively stated?

I always wondered, why there wasn't the Phoenix Force in the battle against Thanos with THOTI.

Originally posted by Xplosive I always wondered, why there wasn't the Phoenix Force in the battle against Thanos with THOTI.
What could a bird have done against a god?
Better spend their time screwing over a picutre of Cyclops (which's probably what Jean did) than die sooner than you have to.

Still no definitive proof, how many times will the same scans be used to say nothing?...The writers stated a supreme power...i am fine with that, as supreme power has been used many times before.....but until i see a scan or bio stating it was TOAA's Power ......its all speculation...

Originally posted by starlock
Still no definitive proof, how many times will the same scans be used to say nothing?...The writers stated a supreme power...i am fine with that, as supreme power has been used many times before.....but until i see a scan or bio stating it was TOAA's Power ......its all speculation...

Maybe good buddy.

But Thanos absorbed LT, effortlessly absorbed LT, and the only thing more powerful than the LT is.......?

I personally believe it was the Almighty's power. The Marvel Handbook states that the only thing more powerful than the LT is the Supreme being, and with reference to the Almighty and the Supreme One, in the actual story on panel, i find it hard to see otherwise.

Originally posted by starlock
Still no definitive proof, how many times will the same scans be used to say nothing?...The writers stated a supreme power...i am fine with that, as supreme power has been used many times before.....but until i see a scan or bio stating it was TOAA's Power ......its all speculation...
If x * y = z, then y = z/x

You have to use ABC logic here.

Originally posted by Astner
If x * y = z, then y = z/x

You have to use ABC logic here.

No sorry i dont have to...i use the logic that the writers purposely left out the name "The One Above All" for a reason, thats it, anything else is speculation..no matter how many scans or how much abc logic is applied....Does TOAA appear in the comic? simple question?

what some are doing is trying to make a set rule that the HOTU cannot be beaten because its TOAA'apower......let the feats speak for themselves...i think its enough on its own

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Maybe good buddy.

But Thanos absorbed LT, effortlessly absorbed LT, and the only thing more powerful than the LT is.......?

I personally believe it was the Almighty's power. The Marvel Handbook states that the only thing more powerful than the LT is the Supreme being, and with reference to the Almighty and the Supreme One, in the actual story on panel, i find it hard to see otherwise.

Your personal beliefs, are only your opinon, i am ok with that

The fact that you bye into the Only thing more powerfull that LT is TOAA...is disturbing...no disrespect...show me those words? show me the scans that state that exactly how you phrase it?

This is the actuall quote, and phrased the way it is with a judge of the multiverse, its kinda misleading
"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"


Now how misleading is that....my superior here at my job....would make in his pants if i were to threaten him and start fighting with him...whats that proove....now about 50 new posters and people who are not so savy will say "The Only thing more powerfull that LT is TOAA...., i look to a fair and even debate...when the heirarchy is set in stone....where is the debate? why not just make a thread and ask Mr Master who wins?

No disrespect intended, fellow team member

Originally posted by Astner
What could a bird have done against a god?

And what would have Thor do to God, what he did? Or Hulk, Logan,...?
Your answer is meaningless. No one would be able to do anything, but there were more than 95% lesser beings than PF against THOTI.

Probably they just forgot PF. But if there were Eternity, Galactus, Celestials and..., there should be Phoenix Force.
Although it would not help anything, of course.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree.

At the beginning and at "the end of the day,"
it was officially confirmed that the HOTI was actually God's power,
that made Thanos the Supreme Being of the Marvel Universe.

It was blatantly presented On Panel, and confirmed in Thanos' bio.


Really?

Hmm ...


Here's Thanos' 2008 bio: (at the bottom)

Except for Thanos' own Bio:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "

.................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbook as well:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2069/akbioyu7.th.jpg

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................

You're telling me it was officially confirmed. Where?

On panel it was alluded to. However the only being on panel that could give a creditable assessment of the matter was LT and he said no such thing.

In Marvel, LT is the only being who communes directly with the supreme being. ANYONE other than LT's opinionis not good enough.

"... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe "

That quote from the bio tells us what Thanos thought its not stating what actually is the case.

If destroying the universe is what it takes to become a supreme being then we've got a problem here

Originally posted by Mr Master
LT didn't have to spell it out for us, are you kidding?

LT? ... LT what?

LT tried to go up against Thanos,
because LT knew the power was in the wrong hands, (Thanos')

LT brought with him practically the entire Marvel Universe to Help Him:

=== The Set UP ===

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5121/ltbf6.th.jpg



=== The Attack ===

(Heroes ... and Villains) lol! ... Everyone!

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9886/lt3xv1.th.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7682/lt4uy0.th.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3394/lt5xu5.th.jpg



LT KNEW he was going up against the power that was SUPERIOR to his own.



We KNOW what that ONLY power that's SUPERIOR to the LT is:


(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook - LT bio 2006)
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5738/lt1df4.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal's ONLY Superior is TOAA"

......................................................................................

Does it really need to get any clearer?

LT is the only on panel reputable opinion in this matter.

Not once did LT refer to the HOTI as Gods power or his masters power. Thats all this comes down to.

LT getting heroes to fight for him does not equate to HOTI was Gods power. That point is your OPINION.

The point isnt stated on panel or within a bio. Please dont present such supposition as fact Mr Master.

Hierarchy is continually in flux. It is never set in stone. LT is stated to be second to TOAA.

He was defeated by HOTI.

That suggests that HOTI is gods power. It doesnt confirm it.

There is a difference.

For all we know there was a hierarchy change.

The point was never confirmed by LT. The point was never confirmed by a bio.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I completely disagree.


Thnaos never called the IG god's power,
he and others called him and Warlock "God,"
and indeed they were,
but the LT serves one who is above even "Gods"

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7757/ltorderswl0iy.th.jpg

The IG was thought to be the "supreme power,"
until we saw the LT's authority and power above it on panel and confirmed in his bio.

BIG difference friend!

The IG was depicted as being below the LT,
while THOTI was depicted as being above the LT.

ONLY power above the LT's is TOAA's.


LOL!


Yo, this is just hilarious.

Eternity's "Lord and Master" is the Almighty Supreme Being TOAA/God.

Thanos knew "Eternity could SENSE" he had become the new Supreme Being because of this:

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3120/lt2fc6.th.jpg


This is inconsequential to this scenario,
but don't think I don't appreciate the reach.


This is false,
the conversation between Thanos and Eternity clearly indicates,
that Eternity ALSO has a relation with the Supreme Being.

Don't play yourself.

Jim Starlin made it clear through out the arc,
from the mouths of many characters, (Starlin speaking really)
he gave Thanos the power to absorb the LT easily,

uhh ... nuff said.


It's an opinion ... in your opinion,
that's the only thing that should be made clear.

Thanos stated in Thanos Quest that the Infinity Being was God.

This was later revealed to be far from the truth.

The only person in Marvel that has regular contact with TOAA is LT. The only reputable authority on TOAA is therefore LT.

LT never confirmed Thanos' boasts. The bios never confirmed Thanos boasts.

In fact, all that was stated about the HOTI in Akhenatens bio was that it was a vastly energy source. Nothing of the divine was indicated or referenced. Aside from Thanos' posturing, nothing was confirmed, only alluded to by characters who knew nothing of the supreme being.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay GS, just what WOULD have needed to be said for you to think it was conclusively stated?

There is a difference between allusion and confirmation.

I'm not saying HOTI is NOT the supreme beings power. That was certainly suggested on panel.

I'm just saying it was not confirmed conclusively on panel or in a bio.

The fact that Thanos constantly used references such as "Almighty" and "Supreme being" is not confirmation. He called the Infinity Being supreme and "God". That was far from the case.

The ONLY character to be any kind of authority on the supreme being is LT. No confirmation came from LT.

Would we accept what Jubilee says about the nature of Galactus just because she says it? Would we accept what she said about Galactus because Cyclops or Storm never disagreed with her? They just let her babble on?


LT is said to be second only to TOAA. Lt was defeated by HOTI. Does that mean HOTI equals Gods power?

Not necessarily. It certainly suggests that. It doesnt confirm it.

For all we know, the hierarchy was revised. It is not set in stone.

Phoenix was stated to be second only to God. Does that mean every being who has defeated a host was channeling the power of God?

For all we know, it was just an M Body of LT's. An LT M Body was found in the Dimension of Manifestations so we know he uses them.


Akhenatens bio refers to the HOTI as a vast power, no divine reference was made. None has been in any bio and none was made on panel by the only authority on the supreme being we know of........LT


There is a difference between that which is alluded to and that which is made conclusive via official sources.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I always wondered, why there wasn't the Phoenix Force in the battle against Thanos with THOTI.
Because the PF is a joke to the cosmic hierarchy.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Because the PF is a joke to the cosmic hierarchy.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Originally posted by Mr Master
He bit off more than he could chew, but he wasn't insane,
he was a spoiled brat with absolute power.

Clear not absolute power, but as said he seemed close to insane, him believing himself to be TOAA and so forth.

Actually you said is this the only mention of Toaa name,
is this pis comic and by an insane boy?

I pointed out the scan where the LT mentioned TOAA's by name.

Yes I can see the formulation isn't quiet accurate from my part regarding that question, a more accurate formulation would simply be is this comic the only time TOAA has been mentioned, btw do you have more scans illustrating that TOAA has been named more then at this incident?

Originally posted by starlock

Still no definitive proof,
how many times will the same scans be used to say nothing?...
Actually you should pay more attention rather than just posting blindly.

I clearly posted NEW scans.
(although I'll post whatever scan/s I feel like,
who ever doesn't like it,
can simply ignore my name and my scans)

On top of that,
make no mistake,
I am NOT trying to convince you of anything,
it's apparent no amount of evidence will do that.

Originally posted by starlock

The writers stated a supreme power...i am fine with that,
as supreme power has been used many times before.....
Really?

Show us the many times before,
that a so called "Supreme Power" has been depicted stomping the LT.

Meh, try and show just one incident.

Originally posted by starlock

but until i see a scan or bio stating it was TOAA's Power ......
its all speculation...



Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER

Thanos absorbed LT, effortlessly absorbed LT,
and the only thing more powerful than the LT is.......?

I personally believe it was the Almighty's power.
The Marvel Handbook states that the only thing more powerful than the LT is the Supreme being,
and with reference to the Almighty and the Supreme One,
in the actual story on panel, i find it hard to see otherwise.


Only intransigence would see it otherwise,
that,
or an agenda driven person.


Originally posted by starlock

the writers purposely left out the name "The One Above All" for a reason,
thats it, anything else is speculation..
no matter how many scans or how much abc logic is applied....
TOAA is the Almighty Supreme Being/Creator of the Marvel Universe.

..........................................................................

2. TOAA

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/928/omni2mz6.th.jpg

2. The entity believed to be the Supreme being/Creator of the Omniverse"

..........................................................................

Thanos became the Almighty Supreme Being/destroyer/Creator of the Marvel Universe.

..........................................................................


Here's Thanos' 2008 bio: (at the bottom)

Except for Thanos' own Bio:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "
..........................................................................

I mean, come on already!

Meh, I won't entertain these circles much longer.

Originally posted by starlock

Does TOAA appear in the comic? simple question?
Inconsequential.

TOAA/God has only officially appeared once on panel in FF#511.

Originally posted by starlock

what some are doing,
is trying to make a set rule that the HOTU cannot be beaten because its TOAA'apower......

let the feats speak for themselves...i think its enough on its own
Funny you should say that,
because it IS the FEATS that tell us,
the HOTI was indeed the Supreme Being's power withIN the Omniverse.

THOTI can't be beaten,
because it absorbed effortlessly the most powerful entity in Marvel (LT)

The LT's ONLY Superior is TOAA.

On Panel, according to the LT himself,
there is ONLY One above him in power. (TOAA again)

Originally posted by starlock

The fact that you bye into the Only thing more powerfull that LT is TOAA...
is disturbing...no disrespect...
dontgetit
Originally posted by starlock

show me those words?

show me the scans that state that exactly how you phrase it?

This is the actuall quote,
and phrased the way it is with a judge of the multiverse,
its kinda misleading
"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"

Now how misleading is that....
my superior here at my job....
would make in his pants if i were to threaten him and start fighting with him...whats that proove....
The mistake you're making dude,
is you're comparing your real world logic to a comic book.

One of the meanings of the term "SUPERIOR" is,

"Greater in size or Power"


And evidently,
that's exactly what Marvel is referring too concerning the term "Superior"


PROOF .. as always!

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5056/toaa3sl6.th.jpg

Protege tells the Living Tribunal and Eternity:

"My POWER escalates, it frightens the next level of the Hierarchy,
acknowledge my SUPERIORITY ...

I am the most POWERFUL being there ever was,
I will SURPASS you all"


Living Tribunal responds

"Impossible! There is ONLY One above the Living Tribunal"

..........................................................................


hmm ... Power - Superiority - Powerful!

hmm ... "There is ONLY One above" (more Powerful) than the LT:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5738/lt1df4.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal's ONLY Superior is TOAA"


Originally posted by starlock

now about 50 new posters
and people who are not so savy will say
"The Only thing more powerfull that LT is TOAA....
So about 50 new posters,
plus all the other posters lack your savy,
because we all agree that TOAA is more powerful than the LT?



I never seen anyone toot their horn so undeservingly so.

Originally posted by starlock

why not just make a thread and ask Mr Master who wins?
Why not just make a thread and wait for GS to post so you can know what to say next.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

There is a difference between allusion and confirmation.

I'm not saying HOTI is NOT the supreme beings power. That was certainly suggested on panel.
I'm just saying it was not confirmed conclusively on panel or in a bio.
The fact that Thanos constantly used references such as "Almighty" and "Supreme being" is not confirmation. He called the Infinity Being supreme and "God". That was far from the case.
The ONLY character to be any kind of authority on the supreme being is LT. No confirmation came from LT.
Would we accept what Jubilee says about the nature of Galactus just because she says it? Would we accept what she said about Galactus because Cyclops or Storm never disagreed with her? They just let her babble on?
I love when you come to debate high.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

LT is said to be second only to TOAA. Lt was defeated by HOTI.
Does that mean HOTI equals Gods power?

Not necessarily. It certainly suggests that. It doesnt confirm it.
hum
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

For all we know, the hierarchy was revised. It is not set in stone.
Now the hierarchy was revised behind closed doors.

This just gets better and better.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Phoenix was stated to be second only to God.
Does that mean every being who has defeated a host was channeling the power of God?
HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Phoenix has never even created a single Universe.

Phoenix has never destroyed all that is,
heck, not even just the 616 reality,
bah, only two single alternate realities, and they were in "What If" issues..


So of course anyone claiming that Phoenix is second or third or tenth to God is preposterous.


Thanos, on the other hand,

did in fact, absorb the LT & the hierarchy, and nearly every other hero/villain ever,
did in fact absorb all of Time-Space,
did in fact, re-create all of Time-Space/the hierarchy including the LT.


BIG ass difference dogs.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

For all we know, it was just an M Body of LT's.
An LT M Body was found in the Dimension of Manifestations so we know he uses them.
All we know is that this is more bull shit

The LT exists everywhere simultaneously,
One LT, One M-body, that can manifest anywhere/everywhere simultaneously.

Not that this matters,
because M-bodys possess the Full Power of the Concept they give form to.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Akhenatens bio refers to the HOTI as a vast power,
no divine reference was made.
None has been in any bio
and none was made on panel by the only authority on the supreme being we know of........LT
5funny

Except for Thanos' own Bio:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "

.................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbook as well:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2069/akbioyu7.th.jpg

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

There is a difference between that which is alluded to
and that which is made conclusive via official sources.
There'a also a difference between truth and bull shit

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

You're telling me it was officially confirmed. Where?
Round and round we go.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

On panel it was alluded to. However the only being on panel that could give a creditable assessment of the matter was LT and he said no such thing.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

In Marvel, LT is the only being who communes directly with the supreme being. ANYONE other than LT's opinionis not good enough.
Bull shit

Eternity also relates to the Supreme Being:
...............................................................................

Eternity's "Lord and Master" is the Almighty Supreme Being TOAA/God.

Thanos knew "Eternity could SENSE" he had become the new Supreme Being because of this:

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3120/lt2fc6.th.jpg


Nice try, as usual.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

"... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe "

That quote from the bio tells us what Thanos thought its not stating what actually is the case.

If destroying the universe is what it takes to become a supreme being then we've got a problem here
lmfao

Spin, spin, spin away.

Originally posted by Mr Master


inlove

Originally posted by Mr Master
Round and round we go.



Bull shit

Eternity also relates to the Supreme Being:
...............................................................................

Eternity's "Lord and Master" is the Almighty Supreme Being TOAA/God.

Thanos knew "Eternity could SENSE" he had become the new Supreme Being because of this:

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3120/lt2fc6.th.jpg


Nice try, as usual.


lmfao

Spin, spin, spin away.

All according to Thanos.

Therein lays the problem

Good try though

Originally posted by Mr Master
Because the PF is a joke to the cosmic hierarchy.

Mr Master, no offence, but you do know that is the most stupid answer you could provide?

Having so many jokes compared to Phoenix Force who battled THOTI,
also having so many non cosmic beings who fought THOTI, the answer is really just stupid.

I don't know, they probably just forgot it.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Clear not absolute power,
but as said he seemed close to insane,
him believing himself to be TOAA and so forth.

Again, Protege didn't think he was TOAA,
he wanted to be TOAA:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6517/prorx2.th.jpg

Protege was a spoiled brat with near absolute power.

Like all spoiled children he wanted everything,
in his innocence he thought he could achieve that.

Originally posted by Utrigita

a more accurate formulation would simply be is this comic the only time TOAA has been mentioned
Actually TOAA has been mentioned in other arcs.

Originally posted by Utrigita

btw do you have more scans illustrating that TOAA has been named more then at this incident?
I'll post them soon.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Mr Master, no offence,
but you do know that is the most stupid answer you could provide?


Originally posted by Xplosive

Having so many jokes compared to Phoenix Force who battled THOTI,
also having so many non cosmic beings who fought THOTI,
the answer is really just stupid.
lol
Originally posted by Xplosive

I don't know, they probably just forgot it.
Or they probably knew the PF is a joke. shifty

Originally posted by Mr Master
Again, Protege didn't think he was TOAA,
he wanted to be TOAA:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6517/prorx2.th.jpg

Protege was a spoiled brat with near absolute power.

Like all spoiled children he wanted everything,
in his innocence he thought he could achieve that.

He did at one point think he was TOAA
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toaa1mb2.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toaa2be3.jpg

I Agree near absolute power, but the spoiled part where do you see that?

Actually TOAA has been mentioned in other arcs.

I'll post them soon.

Cool thanks

Originally posted by Mr Master
Or they probably knew the PF is a joke. shifty

Then they should exclude 99% of those who fought THOTI, because they are joke to the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Like all spoiled children he wanted everything,
in his innocence he thought he could achieve that.




Nice bit of speculation there.

Send me a PM when your opinions stated on panel.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Inconsequential.

TOAA/God has only officially appeared once on panel in FF#511.


Funny you should say that,
because it IS the FEATS that tell us,
the HOTI was indeed the Supreme Being's power withIN the Omniverse.

THOTI can't be beaten,
because it absorbed effortlessly the most powerful entity in Marvel (LT)

The LT's ONLY Superior is TOAA.

On Panel, according to the LT himself,
there is ONLY One above him in power. (TOAA again)


dontgetit

The mistake you're making dude,
is you're comparing your real world logic to a comic book.

One of the meanings of the term "SUPERIOR" is,

"Greater in size or Power"


And evidently,
that's exactly what Marvel is referring too concerning the term "Superior"


PROOF .. as always!

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5056/toaa3sl6.th.jpg

Protege tells the Living Tribunal and Eternity:

"My POWER escalates, it frightens the next level of the Hierarchy,
acknowledge my SUPERIORITY ...

I am the most POWERFUL being there ever was,
I will SURPASS you all"


Living Tribunal responds

"Impossible! There is ONLY One above the Living Tribunal"

..........................................................................


hmm ... Power - Superiority - Powerful!

hmm ... "There is ONLY One above" (more Powerful) than the LT:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5738/lt1df4.th.jpg

"The Living Tribunal's ONLY Superior is TOAA"



So about 50 new posters,
plus all the other posters lack your savy,
because we all agree that TOAA is more powerful than the LT?



I never seen anyone toot their horn so undeservingly so.


Why not just make a thread and wait for GS to post so you can know what to say next.

I agree with the feats and would have ThanosTHOTU win against all odds, that was not my intention, his feats are amazing and cant be denied.......
but you get one pass at trying to insult me...thats all...dont try and tell me to wait for GS and be all tuff, i will respond and i wont be nice...try an get some perspective when dealing with me, i have been nothing but polite and respectfull....but i will bring your name and all your foul mouthed post and the lies and the misleading scans i still have saved for the tuff guy you think you are...so go and get my first post i made and get ready to show every post of yours around it, you have been good for awhile, but i dont play with children well, and i will have nothing but pleasure from showing the boards what you really are...got it...good

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

All according to Thanos.

Therein lays the problem
Right, what would a being that is everything in the Omniverse, know about it?

................................................................................

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg

"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"

................................................................................


What would a being that absorbed the LT like a mote in a storm, know about it:

................................................................................

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1825/teb9.th.jpg

......................................................................................


What would a being that erased all of Time-Space in Marvel, know about it?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9067/th1rn4.th.jpg

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg

"Nothing remained"

......................................................................................


Meh, not to mention that the "embodiment of ALL Time" also said it:

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5800/th2qb7.th.jpg

"Relinquish the Supreme Power you have stolen"

......................................................................................


But what does Eternity know. durznuts

Originally posted by Mr Master
Right, what would a being that is everything in the Omniverse, know about it?

................................................................................

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg

"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"

................................................................................


What would a being that absorbed the LT like a mote in a storm, know about it:

................................................................................

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1825/teb9.th.jpg

......................................................................................


What would a being that erased all of Time-Space in Marvel, know about it?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9067/th1rn4.th.jpg

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg

"Nothing remained"

......................................................................................


Meh, not to mention that the "embodiment of ALL Time" also said it:

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5800/th2qb7.th.jpg

"Relinquish the Supreme Power you have stolen"

......................................................................................


But what does Eternity know. durznuts


Im not even going to get into that uni/multiverse argument with you.

On panel and within bios its confirmed that only a universe was affected, but whatever, i cant be bothered to start that up, just so i have to ignore pages of you ignoring canon.

Where you're going wrong is that you're using Thanos word to prove that Thanos' opinion that you think is right.

Do you see why thats a bit silly?

When you have a statement from the only character confirmed by canon to commune and have contact with TOAA, when you have a bio that actually states your opinion as opposed to just calling HOTI a vast power source, then you'll have something.

Good effort all around though clapping

Originally posted by starlock

I agree with the feats and would have ThanosTHOTU win against all odds,
that was not my intention, his feats are amazing and cant be denied.......
Cool.

Originally posted by starlock

but you get one pass at trying to insult me...thats all...
dont try and tell me to wait for GS and be all tuff
You want respect,
keep my name out of your posts when you're trying to be funny:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=482044&pagenumber=4
Originally posted by starlock

why not just make a thread and ask Mr Master who wins?
... You thought I missed that?

Originally posted by starlock

i will respond and i wont be nice...
I will respond too, and I won't be nice either.
Originally posted by starlock

try an get some perspective when dealing with me,
i have been nothing but polite and respectfull....
And so was I, until you broke that trust with you off-topic personal attack.

If you were dealing with the poster, Unnatural Power,
you should've kept it there, and kept my Name out of it.

You're disrespecting Unnatural Power by telling him that,
and you're disrespecting me, by using my name to disrespect him.

Originally posted by starlock

but i will bring your name and all your foul mouthed post and the lies and the misleading scans i still have saved for the tuff guy you think you are...
Gibberish.

Originally posted by starlock

so go and get my first post i made and get ready to show every post of yours around it, you have been good for awhile, but i dont play with children well, and i will have nothing but pleasure from showing the boards what you really are...got it...good
Ahh, shut up, and get back on topic.

GS can you post the scan/s wherein Phoenix has sub-atomic control of the Universe 616 within the palm of her hand please pal?

It's not that i don't believe it, i would like to see it, if you have them accessible.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Or Mr M if you have them and you don't mind uploading for my benefit, it's a learning curve!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Right, what would a being that is everything in the Omniverse, know about it?

................................................................................

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg

"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"

................................................................................


What would a being that absorbed the LT like a mote in a storm, know about it:

................................................................................

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1825/teb9.th.jpg

......................................................................................


What would a being that erased all of Time-Space in Marvel, know about it?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9067/th1rn4.th.jpg

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg

"Nothing remained"

......................................................................................


Meh, not to mention that the "embodiment of ALL Time" also said it:

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5800/th2qb7.th.jpg

"Relinquish the Supreme Power you have stolen"

......................................................................................


But what does Eternity know. durznuts

Look, it doesn't work that way. They are asking you for giving them, where it says directly that THOTI is the TOAA power.
You can't give them that and you know it. Admit that you can't give them for what they are asking you, but can only provide them connections and for what you think is logical that you can assume THOTI being TOAA power withing the Omniverse. GS is not denying it may very well be, but you cannot prove them directly that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im not even going to get into that uni/multiverse argument with you.

On panel and within bios its confirmed that only a universe was affected, but whatever, i cant be bothered to start that up, just so i have to ignore pages of you ignoring canon.

Where you're going wrong is that you're using Thanos word to prove that Thanos' opinion that you think is right.

Do you see why thats a bit silly?

When you have a statement from the only character confirmed by canon to commune and have contact with TOAA, when you have a bio that actually states your opinion as opposed to just calling HOTI a vast power source, then you'll have something.

Good effort all around though clapping

Wow. You fail. I would call this trolling since you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

EDIT

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER

GS can you post the scan/s wherein Phoenix has sub-atomic control of the Universe 616 within the palm of her hand please pal?

It's not that i don't believe it, i would like to see it, if you have them accessible.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Or Mr M if you have them and you don't mind uploading for my benefit, it's a learning curve!
I would, but there's no such feat in existence.

Phoenix never held 616 in her hands,
never sub-atomically controlled 616,
in fact,
never did jack to 616.

Now,
if you're referring to the Alternate Reality 15104 Timeline Jean held in her hands,
that I have.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I would, but there's no such feat in existence.

Phoenix never held 616 in her hands,
never sub-atomically controlled 616,
in fact,
never did jack to 616.

Now,
if you're referring to the Alternate Reality 15104 Timeline Jean held in her hands,
that I have.

Well, to be honest i don't know what i am referring to because i don't have knowledge of this feat anyway.
I think GS was saying this was Phoenix's greatest feat, but i don't know for sure.

Help me out pal, i'm of the ignorant concerning certain things Marvel!

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Well, to be honest i don't know what i am referring to because i don't have knowledge of this feat anyway.
I think GS was saying this was Phoenix's greatest feat, but i don't know for sure.

Help me out pal, i'm of the ignorant concerning certain things Marvel!

Maybe it would be better to read yourself. Here Comes Tomorrow and judge it by yourself. They are all great issues.

Then you can agree with the view of Mr Master of GalacticStorm.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Maybe it would be better to read yourself. Here Comes Tomorrow and judge it by yourself. They are all great issues.

Then you can agree with the view of Mr Master of GalacticStorm.

True pal, that would be easier, but i don't have access to the comic you mentioned.

Mr M particularly, seems to have an encyclopedic amount of scans concerning the Marvel cosmology.

If he can post the scans i can read and make my own interpretations thereafter.

Marvels cosmology isn't my strong point when discussing comics, i don't keep that secret

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Well, to be honest i don't know what i am referring to because i don't have knowledge of this feat anyway.
I think GS was saying this was Phoenix's greatest feat, but i don't know for sure.

Help me out pal, i'm of the ignorant concerning certain things Marvel!

a link to where you can find the comics you need I think

http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=13396773&postcount=20

Originally posted by Xplosive
Look, it doesn't work that way. They are asking you for giving them, where it says directly that THOTI is the TOAA power.
You can't give them that and you know it. Admit that you can't give them for what they are asking you, but can only provide them connections and for what you think is logical that you can assume THOTI being TOAA power withing the Omniverse. GS is not denying it may very well be, but you cannot prove them directly that.

Thank you!

Im not denying that it could be, i'm just saying that it was never conclusively confirmed on panel.

The bios talk of HOTI and even they dont mention anything about God.

Originally posted by Air Legend

Wow. You fail. I would call this trolling since you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Precisely.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Thank you!

Im not denying that it could be,
i'm just saying that it was never conclusively confirmed on panel.
Thank you?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The bios talk of HOTI and even they dont mention anything about God.
Still ling I see.

The Truth ... Marvel.com and Marvel Handbooks both dismiss your bull shit

God?

How about ....

.... SUPREME BEING ... and ... GOD!

..........................................................................

TOAA is the Almighty Supreme Being/Creator of the Marvel Universe.

..........................................................................

2. TOAA

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/928/omni2mz6.th.jpg

2. The entity believed to be the Supreme being/Creator of the Omniverse"

..........................................................................

Thanos became the Almighty Supreme Being/destroyer/Creator of the Marvel Universe.

..........................................................................


Except from Thanos' own Bio:



http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "
..........................................................................


=========== SUPREME BEING =============


..........................................................................


And GOD!

.................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbook as well:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2069/akbioyu7.th.jpg

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................


=========== GOD =============


.............................................................................

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thank you?


Still ling I see.

The Truth ... Marvel.com and Marvel Handbooks both dismiss your bull
God?

How about ....

.... SUPREME BEING ... and ... GOD!

..........................................................................

TOAA is the Almighty Supreme Being/Creator of the Marvel Universe.

..........................................................................

2. TOAA

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/928/omni2mz6.th.jpg

2. The entity believed to be the Supreme being/Creator of the Omniverse"

..........................................................................

Thanos became the Almighty Supreme Being/destroyer/Creator of the Marvel Universe.

..........................................................................


Except from Thanos' own Bio:



http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "
..........................................................................


=========== SUPREME BEING =============


..........................................................................


And GOD!

.................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbook as well:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2069/akbioyu7.th.jpg

"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...

.............................................................................


=========== GOD =============


.............................................................................

I think that should be enough to really believe THOTI was the power of TOAA. It doesn't directly say from TOAA (for what is asked for), but it is said for TOAA other name, the supreme being.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
There is a difference between allusion and confirmation.

I'm not saying HOTI is NOT the supreme beings power. That was certainly suggested on panel.

I'm just saying it was not confirmed conclusively on panel or in a bio.

The fact that Thanos constantly used references such as "Almighty" and "Supreme being" is not confirmation. He called the Infinity Being supreme and "God". That was far from the case.

The ONLY character to be any kind of authority on the supreme being is LT. No confirmation came from LT.

Would we accept what Jubilee says about the nature of Galactus just because she says it? Would we accept what she said about Galactus because Cyclops or Storm never disagreed with her? They just let her babble on?


LT is said to be second only to TOAA. Lt was defeated by HOTI. Does that mean HOTI equals Gods power?

Not necessarily. It certainly suggests that. It doesnt confirm it.

For all we know, the hierarchy was revised. It is not set in stone.

Phoenix was stated to be second only to God. Does that mean every being who has defeated a host was channeling the power of God?

For all we know, it was just an M Body of LT's. An LT M Body was found in the Dimension of Manifestations so we know he uses them.


Akhenatens bio refers to the HOTI as a vast power, no divine reference was made. None has been in any bio and none was made on panel by the only authority on the supreme being we know of........LT


There is a difference between that which is alluded to and that which is made conclusive via official sources.
So basically you are saying that you would only believe it if LT said it was TOAA's power? No one else is acceptable?

Originally posted by Xplosive

I think that should be enough to really believe THOTI was the power of TOAA.
It doesn't directly say from TOAA (for what is asked for),
but it is said for TOAA other name, the supreme being.



Originally posted by King Kandy

So basically you are saying
that you would only believe it if LT said it was TOAA's power?

No one else is acceptable?
Yea, haven't you heard, only the LT interacts with TOAA.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9029/toaa5dt4.th.jpg

Well, and the Fantastic Four.

......................................................................................


Anyway, that comedy aside,
he said Eternity's word wasn't sufficient, that's nonsense but I'll knock that too.


Here Eternity comes with a direct order from "the power that the LT represents"

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2936/oaaec5.th.jpg
(excerpt from Infinity War)

......................................................................................

So much for Eternity not relating to TOAA,
although, "The End: Marvel" clearly depicted a relationship between them
during the Eternity and Thanos conversation.

Also,
Thanos was in a state of Omnipotence,
to suggest he didn't know what he was talking about is absurd.