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Okay this one will require minimal effort. It's a safe bet to say this is his strategy: Have DKRTYZY attack my mind an some feeble attempt to "outlast me." This will be easily beaten.

Okay, for my prep I merely make sure I have all my artifacts, and i'll make a bunch of illusions. Let's say 1000. And I will shield my mind with my Eye of Aggamoto, fending off any attempt to attack my mind. I have shown numerous scans of Strange resisting TP far, far above Dkrtzy or Shadow King. I can dig them up if you want to question his resistance.

Okay, once the battle starts I will locate all of Smurph's characters with the eye of Aggamoto, and then I will go to them and open up the eye, sucking them all into the realm of Unreality.

About the Realm of Unreality: Strange got sucked into it when Death drew him into the orb of Aggamoto. Later Dr. Strange sucked Silver Dagger into it using the eye. I will do the same to his team. The realm of Unreality is controlled by Aggamoto and Death itself. All conventional knowledge does not apply there. It is stated to be IMPOSSIBLE to leave unless you have Strange level magic. Strange had to defeat Death to leave in a fight. None of his characters have that kind of magic, so they will not be able to escape.

Next, they can't outlast me either. Anyone remember that Strange is also immortal? He can only die in battle, not of natural causes, since he defeated Death. So they don't actually have that edge either. Well, that's how I win. Yup. I can also just destroy their minds if I want, using the eye.

Prep:

Drytzky hangs out in Loa's head.

Shadow King possesses Mystique, right after he mindwipes Loa.

Deadman possesses Mr. Immortal.

Dead Girl, Mystique and Doorman are all going to go incorporeal and chill out in the walls around the tunnel.

Loa's going stay in open view in the tunnel.

Mr. Immortal's going to in open view at the opposite side.

--------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Strange, the mind of this amalgam, isn't going to strike down some poor little girl who has no idea WTF she's doing there. So Loa, until further notice, is safe.

RRR's going to just hang out in her head, without her knowledge or consent, until he has an opportunity to attack or is attacked.

Not that Strange attacking him is possible, but I'll just add that clause for the heck of it.

Yeah... anyways, game on.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, once the battle starts I will locate all of Smurph's characters with the eye of Aggamoto, and then I will go to them and open up the eye, sucking them all into the realm of Unreality.


Originally posted by Evangel94

BFR (Battlefield Removal): Remove one foe from the field of battle (failure is possible based on plausibility of battle writeup; removed being can come back so long as he/she has the power to do so within 10 minutes) - 5 points

Originally posted by Cerpin Taxt
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/picard-no-facepalm.jpg




....

Also, you're gonna need a lot of scans to prove:

a) Anything at all in your write-up
b) That it's still cannon, now that Strange is much weaker

Okay, well in that case Strange will BFR Dkrtsy. He has basic knowledge of his opponents, so he will know that Dkrtsy is the biggest threat and BFR him after locating him. The rest will be contained with the crimson bands of Cyttorak.

Okay, so just why is everyone in your prep doing what they're doing? It certainly doesn't seem very in character. Why is Dkrtzy in Loa's mind? I've yet to see any evidence that is an in-character action. Why would Deadman possess an ally? That seems very implausible as well. And why would they just hang out intangible in a wall for all eternity? They are people of action. Bad characterization is all over the place in your write up.

Anyway, the Eye of Aggamoto has never been depowered. It is the same as always. None of his artifacts have been depowered and it is the eye that is preforming the BFR.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
More on Drtzky.

http://www.glcorps.org/dkrtzy_r.html

"Drtzky can only be percieved by the Guardians"

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:2o06laY3swIJ:www.negativespace.net/wildcat/archives/004203.html+dkrtzy+RRR&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

"Dkrtzy Rrr, on the other hand, does attend meetings. But since he is an abstract mathematical progression, only the Guardians notice his presence." (A. Moore) Originally posted by Zeitgeist
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2/greenlantern18818kp0.th.jpg


Eye of Agamotto or not, you can't perceive RRR. It's not a physical thing (invisibility, etc), it's a mental thing.

Only Guardians (and presumably people on similar levels of the power hierarchy and mental hierarchy) can percieve RRR.

He's an abstract concept, without an M-Body.

You see a lost little girl, and no math equation.

While you're talking to her, Deadman possesses you, Drtzky wipes your brain, Shadow King ****s with your mind or any of them mess with Loa's mind and she one-shots you.

Or Dead Girl does the same thing. Or Mystique. Hell, even Doorman can beat up on you and you can't do anything about it.

As for my other characters, you haven't presented a resonable option to reach them, much less attempt to cast the bands of Cyttorak on them. Which wouldn't work on Shadow King, Doorman or Dead Man.

So, we beat on you until you fall. Half the team or more can one-shot you. Half or more you can't affect.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, so just why is everyone in your prep doing what they're doing? It certainly doesn't seem very in character. Why is Dkrtzy in Loa's mind? I've yet to see any evidence that is an in-character action. Why would Deadman possess an ally? That seems very implausible as well. And why would they just hang out intangible in a wall for all eternity? They are people of action. Bad characterization is all over the place in your write up.

Anyway, the Eye of Aggamoto has never been depowered. It is the same as always. None of his artifacts have been depowered and it is the eye that is preforming the BFR. Drtzky's chilling in Loa's mind because his normal place to reside is inside a mind, and as the epitome of logic he would know that she's the best place to remain in order to stage an attack.

Or perhaps he stays there to protect an innocent girl.

Deadman's possessed the supers before for basic communication. Possessing someone he knows can recover from it in seconds in order to combine a mind that never sleeps with a body that never dies, and to hang until he decides to possess Strange isn't out of character at all. Hell, do you even know Deadman... at all?

And they would hang out intangible because they all have extremely good survival instincts, and know nothing about who they're up against. So they move out to observe before launching an attack. And I wouldn't describe Doorman as a "man of action". Dead Girl knows how to stay back and wait, and is extremely logical. Shadow King's very smart, clever and sneaky, so it's not at all out of character.

Did you really just apply a base super hero motif to each of my characters, and shoot blindly hoping to establish something resembling a valid point?

Because it certainly seems likely.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Eye of Agamotto or not, you can't perceive RRR. It's not a physical thing (invisibility, etc), it's a mental thing.

Only Guardians (and presumably people on similar levels of the power hierarchy and mental hierarchy) can percieve RRR.

He's an abstract concept, without an M-Body.
The eye of Aggamoto can perceive abstract beings...


Originally posted by Zeitgeist
While you're talking to her, Deadman possesses you, Drtzky wipes your brain, Shadow King ****s with your mind or any of them mess with Loa's mind and she one-shots you.
TP defense and eye of aggamoto remember? Neither the IG nor numerous Gods could affect him with TP. His TP resistance is godly. And how the hell can Loa one shot me?

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
As for my other characters, you haven't presented a resonable option to reach them, much less attempt to cast the bands of Cyttorak on them. Which wouldn't work on Shadow King, Doorman or Dead Man.
I detect them with the eye of Aggamoto, and then use the Crimson bands, which can hold spirit bodies so holding you shouldn't be any problem, even if you are intangible.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Drtzky's chilling in Loa's mind because his normal place to reside is inside a mind, and as the epitome of logic he would know that she's the best place to remain in order to stage an attack.

Or perhaps he stays there to protect an innocent girl.
Okay. Show me evidence that he normally resides in people's mind. He does it as an attack, but how do you know it's his normal residence? How do you know he's logical? I'd like some evidence. How do you know he's the type to protect an innocent girl?

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
And they would hang out intangible because they all have extremely good survival instincts, and know nothing about who they're up against. So they move out to observe before launching an attack. And I wouldn't describe Doorman as a "man of action". Dead Girl knows how to stay back and wait, and is extremely logical. Shadow King's very smart, clever and sneaky, so it's not at all out of character.
Hows it even going to help you? Dr. Strange fights intangible people all the time (Hello, does Astral bodies ring a bell? The thing Dr. Strange spends like half his time fighting?)

Originally posted by King Kandy
The eye of Aggamoto can perceive abstract beings... Proof of being able to percieve something only Skyfather +'s can (an abstract concept without an M-Body)?

Followed by proof that when you try to use a dimension suck on something you can't physically effect, that it could work.

Originally posted by King Kandy
TP defense and eye of aggamoto remember? Neither the IG nor numerous Gods could affect him with TP. His TP resistance is godly. And how the hell can Loa one shot me?
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
....

Also, you're gonna need a lot of scans to prove:

b) That it's still cannon, now that Strange is much weaker

And Loa can walk through you. What if the little girl walks up to give the kind stranger a hug... and it turns out Shadow King just made her deconstruct your torso?

Originally posted by King Kandy
I detect them with the eye of Aggamoto, and then use the Crimson bands, which can hold spirit bodies so holding you shouldn't be any problem, even if you are intangible. Shadow King isn't a "spirit body"... nor is Door Man... and I'd like to see proof of this anyways. The bands have been defeated before, numerous times, so this being your failsafe defense seems unlikely.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Proof of being able to percieve something only Skyfather +'s can (an abstract concept without an M-Body)?
Okay, fine. Dr. Strange perceived Shuma Gorath when he was hiding his true form.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Followed by proof that when you try to use a dimension suck on something you can't physically effect, that it could work.
Okay, sure. It was Strange's astral form that was sucked into the orb, not his body. AKA an intangible being. Strike two.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
And Loa can walk through you. What if the little girl walks up to give the kind stranger a hug... and it turns out Shadow King just made her deconstruct your torso?
Because I have knowledge of my foes. I won't let her walk through me. Plus, Zoom's powers... she'll be standing still compared to me.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Shadow King isn't a "spirit body"... nor is Door Man... and I'd like to see proof of this anyways. The bands have been defeated before, numerous times, so this being your failsafe defense seems unlikely.
My POINT was that astral bodies are intangible. Thus, the bands can constrain intangible beings. AKA every time Dr. Strange uses them during and astral battle.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay. Show me evidence that he normally resides in people's mind. He does it as an attack, but how do you know it's his normal residence? How do you know he's logical? I'd like some evidence. How do you know he's the type to protect an innocent girl? Because he's a GL, responsible, trusted by the Guardians, lent power by Mogo, and is a fighter of good backed by will.

We know he's smart enough to act on his own without any other support from other characters, smart enough to attack the mental element of a character and smart enough to regularly attend meetings, etc.

We also know he'll be granted his fondest wish, etc., if his enemy is defeated.

If he DOESN'T need to hang in somebody's head? Fine. He hangs in the air.

NONE of this is important to the overall plan.

You're gonna have to reach a little bit farther to make this at all relevant.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Hows it even going to help you? Dr. Strange fights intangible people all the time (Hello, does Astral bodies ring a bell? The thing Dr. Strange spends like half his time fighting?) That's fantastic.

Proof that he can cast the Eye of Agamotto and the Crimson Bands while in astral form.

I'd also like to point out that his body would be extremely vulnerable while he did this. He's off mentally battling with Shadow King in some random five feet of wall, and Dead Girl comes from the other side and kills him. Or Loa does. Or Door Man does. Etc, etc.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, fine. Dr. Strange perceived Shuma Gorath when he was hiding his true form.

Not the same thing at all.


Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, sure. It was Strange's astral form that was sucked into the orb, not his body. AKA an intangible being. Strike two. An intangible being can be affected by a number of things.

Wasn't his intangible form's hands just CRUSHED BY THE HULK?

You can crush a math equation. Meaning you're still hooped on this point.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Because I have knowledge of my foes. I won't let her walk through me. Plus, Zoom's powers... she'll be standing still compared to me. You know their names and powers... you won't know it's her.

Loa hugs you. End game.

Originally posted by King Kandy
My POINT was that astral bodies are intangible. Thus, the bands can constrain intangible beings. AKA every time Dr. Strange uses them during and astral battle. When has Dr. Strange even cast the bands while in astral form, on an intangible creature post his depowerment?

He can't even beat a ninja, or teleport out of Japan.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Because he's a GL, responsible, trusted by the Guardians, lent power by Mogo, and is a fighter of good backed by will.

We know he's smart enough to act on his own without any other support from other characters, smart enough to attack the mental element of a character and smart enough to regularly attend meetings, etc.
So he can attack and attend meetings. Oh yes, sounds very smart. That's something any retard can do. Seriously.


Originally posted by Zeitgeist
That's fantastic.

Proof that he can cast the Eye of Agamotto and the Crimson Bands while in astral form.
I find it very hard to believe that you have no read any comics in which he has done so. But I can provide issues in which he does so (I have no scanner though.)

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
I'd also like to point out that his body would be extremely vulnerable while he did this. He's off mentally battling with Shadow King in some random five feet of wall, and Dead Girl comes from the other side and kills him. Or Loa does. Or Door Man does. Etc, etc.
That WOULD be true, except that Dr. Strange has Zoom's powers and thus everyone is pretty much standing still compared to him. And BTW, if someone enters my mind I can just overload them like Flash did to Thinker.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist


Not the same thing at all.
Actually they are VERY similar scenarios. Both involve an imperceivable Skyfather+ being, who Strange can easily detect.


Originally posted by Zeitgeist
An intangible being can be affected by a number of things.

Wasn't his intangible form's hands just CRUSHED BY THE HULK?

You can crush a math equation. Meaning you're still hooped on this point.
Okay... so you concede that intangible beings can be sucked into the orb? You kind of have to, given it's happened in the past.


Originally posted by Zeitgeist
You know their names and powers... you won't know it's her.

Loa hugs you. End game.
I won't approach anyone. Given how there are ENEMIES ALL AROUND ME why would I possibly accept a hug from her? Plus she is standing still relative to me. Fail.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So he can attack and attend meetings. Oh yes, sounds very smart. That's something any retard can do. Seriously. And does he need to have above retard intelligence in order to hand around and then attack you when he sees you?

Lulz?

Originally posted by King Kandy
I find it very hard to believe that you have no read any comics in which he has done so. But I can provide issues in which he does so (I have no scanner though.) Post depowerment, affecting intangible creatures?

Kind of important side notes.


Originally posted by King Kandy
That WOULD be true, except that Dr. Strange has Zoom's powers and thus everyone is pretty much standing still compared to him. And BTW, if someone enters my mind I can just overload them like Flash did to Thinker. All it takes is one shot, and you'd have no idea.

Also, proof that the Crimson Bands will cast if you're moving at high speeds?

I am done with you. You are asking such stupid questions. Like that high speed thing, WTF?

"Can you prove that the bands can be cast in the presence of a broken down subway?" will be your next question. Or if I can PROVE the bands will work on DC characters. This is beyond ridiculous. I am so done with you. Here's a question of my own "can you prove that your powers have any effect on the sorcerer supreme?" that is about the quality of these questions. You do not give me much hope for this tourney. This is just stupid.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Actually they are VERY similar scenarios. Both involve an imperceivable Skyfather+ being, who Strange can easily detect. No. One involves an imperceivable abstract concept without an M-Body, whose existence Strange likely wouldn't even realize.

(He has, for info, the name: Drytzyky RRR, and Powers: Anything he can imagine, so long as he has the willpower... hardly enough to locate something. He wouldn't even be looking for an abstract concept)

The other involves a magical illusion cast by an easily perceivable being...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay... so you concede that intangible beings can be sucked into the orb? You kind of have to, given it's happened in the past. Proof that Strange can cause this affect, post depowerment? That he still has the magic within him to do it?

And proof that every intangible being works like an astral projection? I have half a dozen different forms of intangibility on my team, so I know for damn certain you can't prove the last one.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I won't approach anyone. Given how there are ENEMIES ALL AROUND ME why would I possibly accept a hug from her? Plus she is standing still relative to me. Fail. You can tell through magic that she's only a little girl. Hell, Loa wouldn't even know her powers, she could kill you by accident. And it's not up to you.

It's up to Strange.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I am done with you. You are asking such stupid questions. Like that high speed thing, WTF? If there needs to be any sort of magic gathered within a certain radius, then you can't be moving at lightspeed in order to cast it.

Like meditation in order to astral project, etc.

Originally posted by King Kandy
"Can you prove that the bands can be cast in the presence of a broken down subway?" will be your next question. Or if I can PROVE the bands will work on DC characters. This is beyond ridiculous. I am so done with you. Here's a question of my own "can you prove that your powers have any effect on the sorcerer supreme?" that is about the quality of these questions. You do not give me much hope for this tourney. This is just stupid. Doctor Strange has been affected physically and mentally in enough ways to completely encapsulate what I'm attempting.

You're attempting, with a character vastly depowered from his previous showings, to use powers in conjunction when you have no idea (obviously) concerning the parameters of the powers themselves. You're then attempting to make abstract correlations in order to prove you can pull off a half-assed write-up that you decided upon after doing NO research on my characters and giving no thought to the arena (which you expressed even after Evangel gave you fair warning). You then had a hissy fit upon the realization that I can even post more relevant scans concering DRTZYKY than you can concerning Strange.

Next time read up.

This is how it plays out:

-Strange arrives, and uses the eye of agamatto. The eye misses RRR, because Strange can't conceptualize him, has no idea he's up against an abstract math equation, and the eye was MADE by a former sorcer supreme, who would have all of these same problems.

-All he sees is a little girl. Using magic, he can tell she's completely alone, has no idea who she is or why she's there, is very scared, and innocent.

-Even suspecting it might be a trap, Strange has always been extremely noble and kind. He approaches her, cautiously.

-Eventually, even if he just reaches out to touch Loa or vice versa, Shadow King, RRR or Deadman can cause her to take out his stomach, limbs, or any other intervening body part.

-Meanwhile, Deadman can possess him, Shadow King can attack his mind while his defenses are lowered, Drtzky can enter his mind and start erasing memories, all things he can't protect against.


I've thoroughly pointed out the faults in every method of attack he's attempted to cover his ass with after his initial mistake.

He's failed to put down one of mine, or prove any of his even valid.


End match.

My vote: Zeitgiest

Originally posted by Ha-Son
My vote: Zeitgiest

You cannot vote, because the first 10 hours has not passed.





























...And even if you could vote now



























...you have no questions to ask?




































....No comments to make about the battle?





































Not even a full sentence to explain your vote?









































































...I don't appreciate that mister.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/8018/annoyeddogiy5.jpg

































I don't mind who you vote for as long as you clearly explain why. I really do enjoy reading the voters thoughts on the battle.









I can't wait to read what you have to say when you re-cast your vote after 10 hours!
-Evangel94

That was annoying.

Question: since both debators(and I use the term lightly) said they were done, could we start voting for Smurph now?

Originally posted by Creshosk
That was annoying.

Question: since both debators(and I use the term lightly) said they were done, could we start voting for Smurph now?

Answer: No.

But is this supposed to be a hint that your going to vote Zeitgeist regardless?

Kandy.

Smurph made far too many assumptions about his characters' actions. I don't think that Strange has been depowered so much as he was implying either -- in any event he fail to really prove it.

Originally posted by Ha-Son
My vote: Zeitgiest

Originally posted by Evangel94
You cannot vote, because the first 10 hours has not passed.





























...And even if you could vote now



























...you have no questions to ask?




































....No comments to make about the battle?





































Not even a full sentence to explain your vote?









































































...I don't appreciate that mister.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/8018/annoyeddogiy5.jpg

































I don't mind who you vote for as long as you clearly explain why. I really do enjoy reading the voters thoughts on the battle.









I can't wait to read what you have to say when you re-cast your vote after 10 hours!
-Evangel94 Nice spam buddy boy.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Kandy.

Smurph made far too many assumptions about his characters' actions. I don't think that Strange has been depowered so much as he was implying either -- in any event he fail to really prove it. Strange has said it twice hes depowered.

Originally posted by Ricardo Potter
Strange has said it twice hes depowered.

I didn't say he hadn't been depowered.

I'ma bit drunk sorry I missed it lol

Originally posted by Ha-Son
My vote: Zeitgiest

My vote: Zeitgiest

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Kandy.

Smurph made far too many assumptions about his characters' actions. I don't think that Strange has been depowered so much as he was implying either -- in any event he fail to really prove it. What critical assumptions did I make about my characters?

That RRR resides inside heads? Not critical in the least. Even better if he doesn't. I don't care.

That the bands aren't the end-all? That's up to him to prove, not me. And the bands can't bind bodies that doesn't exist... ie, Shadow King, RRR, etc.

That the Eye won't hit RRR? That's up to him to prove, not me. And the point is hardly important... RRR is one of the many characters who can end this easily.

As for Strange, it's not up to me to prove. I simply asked for proof. But, I CAN prove that Strange can't teleport out of Japan, can't beat Elektra and a bunch of Ninjas, can't handle the summons that he used to be able to, doesn't have the level of astral immunity he was once reported to, and believes that he's not nearly as powerful as he used to be.

Hell, none of this is in character for Strange anyways nowadays. Even though he's supposed to be able to use the Eye of Agamotto to see all truth even when in Astral Form (so says Kandy), he was still fooled by a fake cadaver dressed as Captain America.

The fact is, there was no point in objecting to Kandy getting Strange for 6 points, because, nowadays, he's likely worth 4. True, he should still probably be able to rank up there given decent prep. But Kandy had all the prep in the world and refused to use it.

It's not like you're going to lose anyway

Originally posted by King Kandy
Actually, I believe I will have an ESPECIALLY easy time with your team.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay this one will require minimal effort.

--- Kandy meets Smurph ---

Originally posted by King Kandy
I am done with you.

...

You do not give me much hope for this tourney.

Go Smurph! Rah rah rah!

slide

Voting King Kandy. Symmetric Chaos should have been in this round anyways.

People are voting for the person they like more, rather than looking at the match objectively and voting for the person who actually presented the better case.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Voting King Kandy. Symmetric Chaos should have been in this round anyways.

People are voting for the person they like more, rather than looking at the match objectively and voting for the person who actually presented the better case.


Hmm... Do you have any suggestions to change the voting system?

even though i am certainly late, there seems to be a lack of votes so it should count.

voting for kandy----

Zeitgeist.

I'm nullifying all votes in this match (and all votes in all subsequent matches) that do not have an adequate reason or explanation as to why they are voting for a certain participant. I've asked time and time again that, as a courtesy for the participants who are competing in the match, to provide at least a minimal explanation for your vote.

Consider it the status quo from now on. No reasonable explanation = vote invalid.

A blind vote doesn't help a participant improve their debate style or strategy.

-Evangel94

The new voting system will be implemented after this match, and will be used first in the "Typhus vs Devil Lance" and later used in all subsequent matches. This match will be the last one to retain the old voting system.

-Evangel94

sorry for the lack of explanation--

kandy wins because it clearly states he drafted "Dr. Strange (current and classic)-6 points" so all this talk of current only is unwarranted.

plus he is amalgamated with a wielder of the speed force so it is entirely possible for strange to spam the battlefield with spells in seconds.

and the all revealing eye of aggamotto sees all and can illuminate any area enough to blind a large city. that would put most of your team out of commission in one shot.

Zoom is a speedster now?

lmao

Originally posted by llagrok
Zoom is a speedster now?

lmao

The original one (the one he's using) was.

dur me!!

doctor strange for christ's sake

Since Typhus vs Devil Lance was pushed back to Sunday, I am going to close this battle match. It has run its course and has been on for over 48 hours.

Match officially ends at 6:45 PM CST. Those who still need to provide reasons for their vote must do so in order to have their vote counted. Votes that occurred before the 10 hour debate was up will not be counted unless they re-state their vote along with an explanation.

-Evangel94

I vote for Smurph.

Don't count my vote I dare ya.

Originally posted by Ricardo Potter
I vote for Smurph.

Don't count my vote I dare ya.

Well.....you need a minimum 1000 posts to vote in all matches of this tournament. Sorry.

Trust me, ask around.

I have way more than that.

Originally posted by Ricardo Potter
Trust me, ask around.

I have way more than that. you also needed an explanation of why you voted a certain way A...Ricardo

Damn it its probably too late to vote, but if my vote counts I want to vote for smurph... Why? Well I bleeived his arguments more, dur what other reason does a person have to vote for someone?

Plus that "I'm done with you" bit by Kandy was pretty poor debate skills.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Damn it its probably too late to vote, but if my vote counts I want to vote for smurph... Why? Well I bleeived his arguments more, dur what other reason does a person have to vote for someone?

Plus that "I'm done with you" bit by Kandy was pretty poor debate skills. you have to say which argument per say was most convincing for you

otherwise people can just vote for their buddies and say oh 'he's argument was better' without even reading the debate...and that would be unfair

Originally posted by psycho gundam
sorry for the lack of explanation--

kandy wins because it clearly states he drafted "Dr. Strange (current and classic)-6 points" so all this talk of current only is unwarranted. Current and Classic was put there by Evangel and Kandy determining that there would be no official differentiation between the Stranges.

Besides, that doesn't make sense...

Could I draft "Drax" by himself and put (Current and Classic) to argue that his strength and durability remain unchanged?

L-U-L-Z

Originally posted by psycho gundam
plus he is amalgamated with a wielder of the speed force so it is entirely possible for strange to spam the battlefield with spells in seconds. Which not only was not his presented route of attack, but is also entirely out of character.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
and the all revealing eye of aggamotto sees all and can illuminate any area enough to blind a large city. that would put most of your team out of commission in one shot. Um... most of my characters either can't physically be blinded, are inside a wall, or would not affect my plan if they WERE blind... so... I don't see your point.


--------------------------------------------

This is over, I assume. I don't really appreciate having all the votes in my favor nullified when none of the voters could possibly know that that had happened... but, whatever. I don't really care anymore.

I will add this though: people don't really understand the situation well enough to think it through.

First of all, casting spells at light speed is asinine. Staples of magic like casting time and location would most likely interfere, unless someone could provide me any evidence of the physics of Marvel's magic.

Second, my plan doesn't rely on someone approaching Loa. But, may I remind you, Strange is the mind of the amalgam... not Zoom, and actions must be in character for Strange, not Zoom.

If he doesn't walk up to Loa, he has to meditate to go Astral. Lightspeed meditation...? No. As soon as he starts, Shadow King can attack his mind, RRR can start erasing his mind, Loa can one-shot him, Deadman can possess him... Door Man can't be touched by him.

Finally, could someone at least provide an explanation within reason of how my team could be beat by Strange, seeing as everyone says Kandy's plan seems more "solid" without actually giving reason... I'm just curious.

------------------------------------------

On a final final note, no matter what the outcome of this battle is, I'd like to make a note that I'm withdrawing from the tourney.

Nobody is putting forth any effort any more, the whole thing has gone to shit, and I didn't really make my team in hopes of winning... just seeing how far I could get based on attrition and debating.

I'm truly amazed I got this far.

I was hoping to solidify my win over Kandy before hand, but with the way the voting was ****ed with mid-game and how people seem to be basing their votes not on actual thought out "so and so's plan could win", but on an apparent general feeling about the whole thing... meh. I just lost what Slugfest Spirit I had left.

Anyways, future tourney participants... expect to see me in Illadelph's, Red's and Newjak's... but I'm done with what's left of this one.

Anyways, who is left in this? Sym and... Sym?

Good luck SC.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
you have to say which argument per say was most convincing for you YEs because it was only ONE argument of Smurphs that swayed me... cause the rest of them were crap.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
otherwise people can just vote for their buddies and say oh 'he's argument was better' without even reading the debate...and that would be unfair I already told you which one REALLY didn't impress me.

Kandy basically saying "I'm done with you, I do not have the debating ability to handle your arguments, regardless of how ridiculous I personally think they are. So rather than DEBATING in a DEBATE tournament I'm going to throw a fit and leave."


Cause you know that this whole thing was just a "pick characters and be judged soley on them rather than your actual ability to debate."

Smurph. Kandy did a terrible job of convincing me of...well...anything.

I've no reason to believe that current Strange could even hope to find RRR.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Current and Classic was put there by Evangel and Kandy determining that there would be no official differentiation between the Stranges.

Besides, that doesn't make sense...

Could I draft "Drax" by himself and put (Current and Classic) to argue that his strength and durability remain unchanged?

L-U-L-Z

Which not only was not his presented route of attack, but is also entirely out of character.

Um... most of my characters either can't physically be blinded, are inside a wall, or would not affect my plan if they WERE blind... so... I don't see your point.


--------------------------------------------

This is over, I assume. I don't really appreciate having all the votes in my favor nullified when none of the voters could possibly know that that had happened... but, whatever. I don't really care anymore.

I will add this though: people don't really understand the situation well enough to think it through.

First of all, casting spells at light speed is asinine. Staples of magic like casting time and location would most likely interfere, unless someone could provide me any evidence of the physics of Marvel's magic.

Second, my plan doesn't rely on someone approaching Loa. But, may I remind you, Strange is the mind of the amalgam... not Zoom, and actions must be in character for Strange, not Zoom.

If he doesn't walk up to Loa, he has to meditate to go Astral. Lightspeed meditation...? No. As soon as he starts, Shadow King can attack his mind, RRR can start erasing his mind, Loa can one-shot him, Deadman can possess him... Door Man can't be touched by him.

Finally, could someone at least provide an explanation within reason of how my team could be beat by Strange, seeing as everyone says Kandy's plan seems more "solid" without actually giving reason... I'm just curious.

------------------------------------------

On a final final note, no matter what the outcome of this battle is, I'd like to make a note that I'm withdrawing from the tourney.

Nobody is putting forth any effort any more, the whole thing has gone to shit, and I didn't really make my team in hopes of winning... just seeing how far I could get based on attrition and debating.

I'm truly amazed I got this far.

I was hoping to solidify my win over Kandy before hand, but with the way the voting was ****ed with mid-game and how people seem to be basing their votes not on actual thought out "so and so's plan could win", but on an apparent general feeling about the whole thing... meh. I just lost what Slugfest Spirit I had left.

Anyways, future tourney participants... expect to see me in Illadelph's, Red's and Newjak's... but I'm done with what's left of this one.

Anyways, who is left in this? Sym and... Sym?

Good luck SC. Sym dropped out of this farce of a tournament.

Originally posted by Soljer
Smurph. Kandy did a terrible job of convincing me of...well...anything.

I've no reason to believe that current Strange could even hope to find RRR.
Same here.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Anyways, who is left in this? Sym and... Sym?

Good luck SC.

I dropped out actually.

That's it, I'm out too.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
There are many, many characters who could benefit from a speed boost. Karnak, for example. Or a psychic. Or an energy weidler. Or Juggernaut. Or the huge list of characters we could choose from.

Characters merge. They have both powersets. That doesn't mean that you can then adapt and change the rules governing those powers. If I amalgamated Banshee, Human Torch and a symbiote, I wouldn't suddenly lose the Symbiote's weaknesses because it would be detrimental to my case if I didn't. That's asinine.

Speedsters rarely have any trouble speaking to one another. Jay, Wally and Bart once had an entire conversation in nanoseconds (speed of sound be damned). Magic users are -- at the most basic level -- just energy wielders that need special words or gestures to make the power work. Super speed shouldn't matter.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Speedsters rarely have any trouble speaking to one another. Jay, Wally and Bart once had an entire conversation in nanoseconds (speed of sound be damned). Magic users are -- at the most basic level -- just energy wielders that need special words or gestures to make the power work. Super speed shouldn't matter. And yet, once again, we have no indication summoning the magic, be it through incantation, symbols or whatever, and drawing forth a fireball works on the same level that simply using your energy manip to shoot forth a fireball does.

We have no indication that the time it takes for a spell to work amplifies with speed.

This was my point alone.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
And yet, once again, we have no indication summoning the magic, be it through incantation, symbols or whatever, and drawing forth a fireball works on the same level that simply using your energy manip to shoot forth a fireball does.

We have no indication that the time it takes for a spell to work amplifies with speed.

This was my point alone.

Casting time is reduced. I think that's the only thing Kandy was arguing for.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Casting time is reduced. I think that's the only thing Kandy was arguing for. And we have no indication that was given a boost either.

Does it work on the basis that a person must say all the words, or that they must focus their power for 20 seconds in addition/with an incantation?

One of the many reasons magic is flawed, and a flawed tool for amalgamation.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
And we have no indication that was given a boost either.

Does it work on the basis that a person must say all the words, or that they must focus their power for 20 seconds in addition/with an incantation?

One of the many reasons magic is flawed, and a flawed tool for amalgamation.

Well it would be up to you Zeitgeist to prove that it is wrong and that certain spells King Kandy was accessing do take a certain amount of time to cast. Just a single scan of Dr. Strange saying, "It takes take to cast this spell! I can't rush it! Magic doesn't work like that!" would have been enough to disprove King Kandy. Otherwise people would have to assume that King Kandy does in fact get a speed boost.

It's the same as how we all assume, despite having no feat history and just one single scan that you posted, that RRR can infact erase minds. It would be up to King Kandy to prove that RRR can not erase minds.

I guess this is all a moot point now, that you've withdrawn from the tournament, but I wanted to at least share my thoughts on the matter.

-Evangel94

Originally posted by Evangel94
but I wanted to at least share my thoughts on the matter.

-Evangel94 no one asked for your thoughts on the matter

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
And we have no indication that was given a boost either.

Does it work on the basis that a person must say all the words, or that they must focus their power for 20 seconds in addition/with an incantation?

One of the many reasons magic is flawed, and a flawed tool for amalgamation.

That's a huge (not to mention baseless) stretch.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Well it would be up to you Zeitgeist to prove that it is wrong and that certain spells King Kandy was accessing do take a certain amount of time to cast. Just a single scan of Dr. Strange saying, "It takes take to cast this spell! I can't rush it! Magic doesn't work like that!" would have been enough to disprove King Kandy. Otherwise people would have to assume that King Kandy does in fact get a speed boost.

It's the same as how we all assume, despite having no feat history and just one single scan that you posted, that RRR can infact erase minds. It would be up to King Kandy to prove that RRR can not erase minds.

I guess this is all a moot point now, that you've withdrawn from the tournament, but I wanted to at least share my thoughts on the matter.

-Evangel94 I never claimed they did. I simply asked for proof that they would work in such a manner.

On a side note, it's not up to any body to prove a negative.

But I've provided my proof for RRR, and it's not contradictory of anything.

Furthermore, I'd finally like to point out that, once again (this isn't directed at any one person, mind you), none of this is critical to my plan and to assume that losing this point would lose me the match is simply ignorant.

And, what would be a much more important point for Kandy to debate would be his own ability to meditate at lightspeed (lulz?). Because if he tries to go Astral, he's dead.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's a huge (not to mention baseless) stretch. And to say that lightspeed + magic = lightspeed magic isn't baseless?

Such things can certainly be proven in respect to super strength, energy wielding, thinking... etc.

But magic? What base do we have for that?

I'm glad to see that the lost of you don't understand how magic works. The magic words, the intricate gestures the focal points such as wands are all used to help the person focus. Speeding these things up will get the mind focused faster however I do not see how it would enhance the speed of controling the magical energies of the spells. I n the various magic systems I've seen there is a casting time not just to recite words and to focus, but part of the problem is also based on how fast the magical energy flows. In some cases speeding up the rituals will cause the spell to botch.

I still don't buy that enhancing ones speed will cause a spell to become an instant cast when it previously had a casting time. Because despite the person moving faster the energy would still channel at the same speed as that's how fast that magical energy flows.

Now if someone would like to prove that a spell that has a longer casting time would be cut short because somehow the Magical energys required to complete the spell would be enhanced feel free to.

But NO the burden of proof is on Kandy's shoulders to prove that this trick of his WOULD work rather than just saying it will.

Smurph says that the method will NOT work.

You do not go "Well my speed increase will decrease casting time, prove me wrong"

YOU have to prove that the casting time WILL decrease as you cannot prove a negative.

you could actually prove a negative...ie show an example of where a magic user speeded up a spell and therefore failed

I'm not clear where I stand on this debate, since I feel it is speculation both ways unless some onpanel evidence is shown to support either

hmmm . . . mhmm

Should've gone for Zolomon.