AOTC Obi-Wan Vs ROTJ Luke

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laser7455
Who would win?

1.Saber
2.Force
3.All out

Blax_Hydralisk
I honestly am this close to saying Rotj has a chance. I was watching Empire Strikes back the other day on Spike and I noticed that the Luke/Vader wasn't that bad. They were dueling pretty well. I think that by Rotj Luke can maybe hang with AotC Obi-Wan.

darthsith19
I say Luke wins the saber duel, Kenobi takes the rest. AOTC Kenobi got manhandled by Dooku, while ROTJ Luke defeated Vader. Vader may not have been trying to kill Luke, plus Luke was using the dark side, but he still got past Vader's saber defenses, which is still impressive. It'd be a good fight though I think.

Superboy Prime
I disagree.

Kenobi definitely takes the saber duel without a problem. Only Sith to have defeated Obi-Wan was the Count and that was simply because of his superior experience and his dueling style that was perfectly suited for blade on blade combat.

Luke doesn't have any of these advantages over the Jedi Master. On the contrary he is lacking heavily.

By the time of Episode 2 Obi-Wan is a 35 years old heavily seasoned Jedi Knight who pretty much works as the Jedi Council's James Bond. What? Why else would they send him to investigate and fulfill every ****ing mission available? Besides Obi-Wan's style is more aggressive in Epsidoe 2, and Luke doesn't really have a style at all. he just swings the lightsaber around like Babe Ruth on coke.

Force-wise Luke has the raw power/untapped potential advantage, but I don't see him doing anything too impressive with it.

Going all out Obi-Wan beats him. The General is quite tenacious and resourceful. He didn't survive the Jedi purge out of sheer luck.

My 2 cents.

Man of Christ
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I disagree.

Kenobi definitely takes the saber duel without a problem. Only Sith to have defeated Obi-Wan was the Count and that was simply because of his superior experience and his dueling style that was perfectly suited for blade on blade combat.

Luke doesn't have any of these advantages over the Jedi Master. On the contrary he is lacking heavily.

By the time of Episode 2 Obi-Wan is a 35 years old heavily seasoned Jedi Knight who pretty much works as the Jedi Council's James Bond. What? Why else would they send him to investigate and fulfill every ****ing mission available? Besides Obi-Wan's style is more aggressive in Epsidoe 2, and Luke doesn't really have a style at all. he just swings the lightsaber around like Babe Ruth on coke.

Force-wise Luke has the raw power/untapped potential advantage, but I don't see him doing anything too impressive with it.

Going all out Obi-Wan beats him. The General is quite tenacious and resourceful. He didn't survive the Jedi purge out of sheer luck.

My 2 cents.

lol vader beat obi wan, dooku beat him in rots too by rendering him unconsius in 3 seconds.

luke takes the saber duel, if we can overlook that they didnt have great special affects in rotj we can see that the intensity of lukes djem so was equal or greater to vader's

all this against an obi wan who hadnt mastered soresu.

luke with difficulty takes this in swords

obi wan takes the force with difficuly

all out luke

Superboy Prime
Originally posted by Man of Christ
lol vader beat obi wan, dooku beat him in rots too by rendering him unconsius in 3 seconds.

LoL. Vader strikes Obi-Wan when he turns off his lightsaber. Impressive victory there. w00tdur

Dooku is Dooku. No arguing there.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

luke takes the saber duel, if we can overlook that they didnt have great special affects in rotj we can see that the intensity of lukes djem so was equal or greater to vader's

all this against an obi wan who hadnt mastered soresu.

At the time of Return of the Jedi Luke was fighting a Vader full of inner conflict, who was a shadow of his former self and no longer in his physical prime, who was also trying to turn Luke to the dark side.

Impressive I tell ya.

Dooku would **** Luke up the same way he did Obi-Wan AND Anakin in Attack of the Clones. Sorry.

Blax_Hydralisk
Originally posted by Superboy Prime

Dooku is Dooku. No arguing there.



At the time of Return of the Jedi Luke was fighting a Vader full of inner conflict, who was a shadow of his former self and no longer in his physical prime, who was also trying to turn Luke to the dark side.

Impressive I tell ya.

Dooku would **** Luke up the same way he did Obi-Wan AND Anakin in Attack of the Clones. Sorry.

But Vader beat Dookee and Anakin and Luke beat Vader who beat 80 year old Obi-Wan and Dooku who beat Obi-Wan so Luke > Vader, and Dooku who > Obi-Wan.

So Luke wins! dur

Superboy Prime
I <3 you.

darthsith19
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I disagree.

Kenobi definitely takes the saber duel without a problem. Only Sith to have defeated Obi-Wan was the Count and that was simply because of his superior experience and his dueling style that was perfectly suited for blade on blade combat.

Lol yes, and he had only ever faced 2 Sith! 1 out if 2 doesn't mean anything, plus he beat Maul by luck, you could say, Maul defeated Kenobi by tossing him into the pit but then Kenobi got lucky and won.

And Dooku pwned Kenobi because he was superior to Kenobi in every way.



Oh, but only one Sith Lord has ever defeated Luke in combat! roll eyes (sarcastic)


"Heavily seasoned"? Dude he has ben a Jedi Knight for 10 years. Plus that doesn't matter, Bane, after a few months of training, was already one of the stronger Sith in the academy, Anakin, after 13 years, was already stronger than almost any Jedi ever, Luke, after 4 years, was able to get past Vader's defenses so how seasoned you are doesn't always make that much of a difference.

Dude, all Jedi get sent on missions, you do know that, don't you? Kenobi wasn't sent to fulfill every mission, there are 10,000 Jedi in the order.
Besides Obi-Wan's style is more aggressive in Epsidoe 2, and Luke doesn't really have a style at all. he just swings the lightsaber around like Babe Ruth on coke.
Bad choreography is no excuse. And Luke's style pwnd Jabba's Guards and took down Vader, who would definitely beat Kenobi. And how is Kenobi's style more agressive than Luke's? Luke's style is hacking away at opponents, Kenobi uses the graceful forum of Soresu.


He did Force Choke 2 Gamorrean Guards at the same time, with ease, that's fairly impressive. And what has AOTC Kenobi done with the Force?


He didn't? If I remember correctly (and I do), it was ROTS Kenobi who survived the Purge, not AOTC Kenobi, and there's a sizable gap between AOTC and ROTS Kenobi. And, he did survive by luck. All the other Jeid who died were walking, or riding ships with Clones riding with them. Kenobi was the only one (that we saw) who was a considerable distance away from the Clones, and was moving at high speeds while they were stationary. Even then he fell down a huge distance, probably several hundred feet, and what are the chances of him landing in a pool of water deep enough to save him? And yet he does. That is not skill, it's luck. Even that Clone says "No one could have survived that fall."


Prove that the inner conflict hampered Vader's fighting ability. And even in the suit, Vader is able to take on mutiple Jedi at a time and he defeated a Darth Maul Clone that was equal to TPM Maul.

Man of Christ
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
LoL. Vader strikes Obi-Wan when he turns off his lightsaber. Impressive victory there. w00tdur

Dooku is Dooku. No arguing there.



At the time of Return of the Jedi Luke was fighting a Vader full of inner conflict, who was a shadow of his former self and no longer in his physical prime, who was also trying to turn Luke to the dark side.

Impressive I tell ya.

Dooku would **** Luke up the same way he did Obi-Wan AND Anakin in Attack of the Clones. Sorry.

like obi wan had a choice, he would have been cut down any way. vader was still a powerful sith, and it was kenobi who was a shadow of his former self. vader was 80% as strong as the emperor thats pretty impressive and for luke to beat that is no small feat.

vader's emotions couldnt have had THAT much of an impact on the duel, after all he swung at luke while his lightsaber was down "you are unwise to lower your defenses"
then he threw the lightsaber at lukes head while his blade was off
"if you will not fight then you will meet your destiny"

luke wasnt going all out either as he was trying to convert vader to the light side

Aotc kenobi doesnt have the soresu to deal with luke's djem so, therefore he wouldnt prevail over luke but would give him a run for his money

Faunus

darthsith19

Faunus
Originally posted by darthsith19
Apart from Han taking care of Boba, Luke took Jabba's entire crime syndicate alone.... Right. So Jabba the Hutt, notorious gangster known across the galaxy, managed to fit his entire crime syndicate on one barge.
Obi-Wan himself takes out eight of them in about thirteen seconds, counting those three he Force-pushes at the end, and then takes out three more in about five seconds just before Qui-Gon starts melting the blast door. He takes out two more while guarding Jinn. That's when the destroyers come in, and after deflecting several vollyes Qui-Gon says "it's a stand-off," and they run away.

Really, really fast. In literally two seconds, they cover the entire length of the hallway and get out of sight.

Here's the link.

Discounting the droids they probably fought between the two skirmishes, and the speed with which the droids were dispatched, that still appears more impressive than Luke's feat, especially when the speed burst at the end is taken into account.
He got shot. By goons. Whereas Padawan Obi-Wan, just a bit older than Luke is (and with well over two decades of training vs. Luke's hours with Ben and days or weeks with Yoda), manages not to.

Luke picks up after RotJ, and fast, but as of then he's still nothing big.
If that's what your argument's come down to.
Not the point. They didn't surround themselves with other Jedi and use them as body shields; they were in the thick of it, the entire time, and managed not to get grazed.

And I like how you completely ignored the bulk of my argument, which centered around Vader's dominance over Luke.

darthsith19
Cut off the head and the body will die. No, he didn't kill all of Jabba's goons from all over the galaxy, but what he did destroyed the syndicate.


Speed isn't all that matters. You could say that Maul was way faster than Vader, which is true if you go by the movies, but who won when they fought? (In case you haven't read that comic, Vader wins). Luke kept up with Vader in the saber duel.


Luke's short amount of training doesn't mean much considering this was 4 years after he picked up a lightsaber, and merely 6 years later (in DE) he is arguably the strongest Jedi ever. He progresses unreasonably fast. And yes, he got shot in the hand, and Kenobi didn't, but again, Leia was there in a bikini. Okay, I am kind of joking around there, but you do realize that the only reason he got shot in the hand was because he was distracted talking to Leia, before that he was manhandling the goons.


It's probably true, though...


But they weren't fighting the entire army by themselves, just the portion of it that was firing at them. Yes, there was stray blaster fire flying around but it was being aimed at Jedi, the droids weren't just firing randomly, and when the Jedi deflected it it wasn't like they were deflecting it back at other Jedi. In Luke's case, all of the fire was directed at him. And he won, had the Clone army not arrived when it had, Kenobi would have been turned into Bantha Poodo.


I replied to the part that was targeted directly at me. For Vader's dominance over Luke, yes, he is above Luke, but Luke still got through his defenses fair and square unless you have proof that Vader let Luke cut his arm off.

Captain REX
Please keep this civil, gentlemen. Thank you.

BetrayedUnicorn
luke hands down

skywalker833
btw, what form does Luke use, if not in ROTJ?

Allankles
ROTJ Luke was good enough to give Obi Wan a decent fight but that's it. Anyone suggesting that a ROTJ Luke is beating an experienced and skillful Jedi like AOTC Obi Wan doesnt't know what they are talking about.

Even looking at his fight with Vader; Vader wasn't even fighting to kill and he had Luke pissing in his pants before Luke gave into his rage and cut Vader's hand off. And before anyone starts arguing over this, Vader was never going to kill the child of the woman he loved.

Luke's skill level both with sabers and the force is well below AOTC Obi Wan's. Obi Wan wins in all three scenarios.

Man of Christ
Originally posted by Allankles
ROTJ Luke was good enough to give Obi Wan a decent fight but that's it. Anyone suggesting that a ROTJ Luke is beating an experienced and skillful Jedi like AOTC Obi Wan doesnt't know what they are talking about.

Even looking at his fight with Vader; Vader wasn't even fighting to kill and he had Luke pissing in his pants before Luke gave into his rage and cut Vader's hand off. And before anyone starts arguing over this, Vader was never going to kill the child of the woman he loved.

Luke's skill level both with sabers and the force is well below AOTC Obi Wan's. Obi Wan wins in all three scenarios.

speculation

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