STAR TREK: The Forum...

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Raoul
After asking Raz about the possibility of a Star Trek forum, i was told that if i could drum up enough support, then he would have no problem creating one. So this thread me asking if you'd like to lend your support by endorsing the plan. With the movie coming out, and the already large fanbase (yes, including me stick out tongue), i believe a star trek forum would be easily popular enough to justify its creation...

I'll be posting the names of those who have already given their support as soon as i can...

Also, i've attached a poll, but i would urge people that if they vote (yes OR no), to please give a reason by posting in the thread itself...

Badabing
Yes....YES!!! w00t

llagrok
No.

Schecter
naaaaaaaa

Phucked Up
Nope

Raoul
Why?

Zeitgeist
YES! OH GOD YES!

*cough*

Troop
Yes.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Raoul
i would urge people that if they vote (yes OR no), to please give a reason by posting in the thread itself...

Originally posted by Badabing
Yes....YES!!! w00t

Originally posted by llagrok
No.

Nice job guys.

I vote yes. Trekkies produce enough content (movies, comics, action figures, TV shows, books, geektastic technology discussion, websites, wikis) to keep a forum going as long as people are around.

Newjak
Sure why not

Schecter
Originally posted by Raoul
Why?

because you trekies cant even commit yourself to a thread, and yet you want a whole forum

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=475817&highlight=title%3A%28star+trek%29

Phucked Up
Originally posted by Raoul
Why?

I'd personally never use it, though I love Star Trek. It will all boil down to favorite characters vs. each other.

Raoul
Originally posted by Schecter
because you trekies cant even commit yourself to a thread, and yet you want a whole forum

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=475817&highlight=title%3A%28star+trek%29

there's more to star trek than one movie...

there's the ten other movies and the five tv shows, and the merchandise etc, as symmetric chaos said...

Schecter
Originally posted by Raoul
there's more to star trek than one movie...

there's the ten other movies and the five tv shows, and the merchandise etc, as symmetricchaos said...


read the OP

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
I really didn't see anything. This is about all the tv series and the movies. I can post a few pictures later. Thoughts? Opinions?

Raoul
Originally posted by Phucked Up
I'd personally never use it, though I love Star Trek. It will all boil down to favorite characters vs. each other.

lol, sure, that will be part of it, but i doubt it will be just that...

Originally posted by Schecter
read the OP

one thread is not nearly enough given the massive volume of content within star trek...

Zeitgeist
Originally posted by Schecter
read the OP One obscure thread =/= total possible forum support...

If there was only one thread to discuss comics, it would probably be dead by now too. But look at the comic forums...

Soljer
I voted yes.

However; I will be entirely, bluntly honest here; I'm not a fan of Star Trek. I don't believe I've ever seen a single episode, and I know I've never watched any of the films.

However, the fanbase that Star Trek draws is considerable. Gargantuan, in fact.

I feel that it'd be supportable, even if I, myself, wouldn't partake.

Schecter
people register here because of the comics forums, just as they once registered for the star trek forums. you cant compare them since people wont sign on to these forums to discuss star trek.

look, im a fan myself, but i'd bet real money that it wont happen. and even if by some miracle raz granted your wish, it would go the way of the transformers forum. dont shoot the messenger :/

Zeitgeist
Originally posted by Schecter
people register here because of the comics forums, just as they once registered for the star trek forums. you cant compare them since people wont sign on to these forums to discuss star trek. People log on here to post in the conspiracy forum.

It's quite a claim to make that nobody would be motivated by a star trek forum, even if it was in addition to everything else, to create a KMC account.

Raoul
Originally posted by Schecter
people register here because of the comics forums, just as they once registered for the star trek forums. you cant compare them since people wont sign on to these forums to discuss star trek.

look, im a fan myself, but i'd bet real money that it wont happen. and even if by some miracle raz granted your wish, it would go the way of the transformers forum. dont shoot the messenger :/

when did people register for the star trek forums? stick out tongue

Schecter
Originally posted by Raoul
when did people register for the star trek forums? stick out tongue

ok i got my geek wires crossed.

Schecter
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
People log on here to post in the conspiracy forum.

It's quite a claim to make that nobody would be motivated by a star trek forum, even if it was in addition to everything else, to create a KMC account.

yes but you cant compare the two since trekkies tend to be intelligent while conspiracy theorists tend to be batshit idiots.

on a side note, that forum was only created to clean up the gdf of copy/paste david iyke spam from deano and mr parker.

illadelph12
thumb up

DigiMark007
Just no vs. forum. Otherwise, sounds good. Star Trek seems like it would have more of a fan base than a lot of other franchises.

Peach
I'm not a Star Trek fan so I can't say yes, plus...really, I haven't seen a huge amount of discussion about it that'd warrant a separate section. Though I haven't really bothered to search it out.

But fact of the matter is that a lot of the franchises that people want forums for, those forums die out.

Bardock42
Personally I am of the opinion the more forums the merrier.

Ha-Son
Originally posted by Soljer
I voted yes.

However; I will be entirely, bluntly honest here; I'm not a fan of Star Trek. I don't believe I've ever seen a single episode, and I know I've never watched any of the films.

However, the fanbase that Star Trek draws is considerable. Gargantuan, in fact.

I feel that it'd be supportable, even if I, myself, wouldn't partake.
What he said.

Fuzzy Hawkeye
we all know who's opinions matter here

SnakeEyes
If we have forums for Pirates of the Caribbean, Harry Potter and the Terminator series, I think that for that alone is justification enough for having a Star Trek one.

Not to mention Star Trek kicks ass and will only gain popularity as the new movie approaches.

BruceSkywalker
I have always loved Star Trek ever since City on the Edge of forever and Space Seed. Of course, I'm more partial TNG. I would certainly love a Star Trek forum and look forward to talking pure Trek in one. I am truly in favor of a Star Trek forum and I'll ask others to come and lend their support. As Worf says "Qapla"

Storm
The current traffic on Star Trek isn' t big enough to warrant its own forum in my opinion. The Official Star Trek Thread has only generated 25 posts since its creation in January.

I' m wondering if the people who are voting yes would actually participate in such a forum.

Impediment
I'll support the idea. I'm actually a die hard Star Wars junkie, but Star Trek is an enjoyable series. I think that a forum would generate enough traffic to justify it's creation.

Bardock42
I don't understand the opposition to forums like the History forum. What's the big deal. Sure it didn't kick off in a way to become the biggest forum on KMC. But some people had a good time discussing some topics there, I can understand if it was like a big amount of work or really expensive, maybe I am missing something, but was it really?

starlock
Yes lets have a forum....i joined because of the comic book and versus section......but when i started to look around the site and got familiar with all the sections i was impressed, i never went in some threads but always thought how much it makes the whole site more grand and awe inspiring...i love star trek and would hope to find myself in such threads,but even if i were to not participate...i think its a good idea, i am not sure how the mods are effected......but when all is said and done,it deserves one...just on its history and what its done for many industries


I vote yes thumb up

Troop
Originally posted by SnakeEyes
If we have forums for Pirates of the Caribbean, Harry Potter and the Terminator series, I think that for that alone is justification enough for having a Star Trek one.

Not to mention Star Trek kicks ass and will only gain popularity as the new movie approaches.

Acrosurge
I strongly support this idea. I love Star Trek and all of its spin-offs and would be happy to discuss them anytime. My roommates and I have recently begun watching TNG (season six) on DVD. So many great stories!

So, yeah. I'll talk Trek.

Neo Darkhalen
another vote from me. smile

Mr Shindiggery
One vote from me there should be a Star Trek forum here and kudos to Rauol for trying to gain support for a Trek forum. If there is a HP, POTC and Star Wars forum, then there should be a Trek forum to nuff said...

ScarletSpeed
Well there is a Smallville discussion and a Heroes discussion...Star Trek is way more popular than any of those programmes and the movies are also very popular

I personally don't like Star Trek but it totally deserves a discussion.

Impediment
I own all of the Star Trek movies on DVD, but, admittedly, I don't own any of the series sets on DVD. However, I've always been fond of The Next Generation.

Personally, I don't know how we've ever gone without a Star Trek forum.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by ScarletSpeed
Well there is a Smallville discussion and a Heroes discussion...Star Trek is way more popular than any of those programmes and the movies are also very popular

I personally don't like Star Trek but it totally deserves a discussion.

That's not a relevant argument; external popularity has no bearing on hiow successful it would be as a forum here. We just had this discussion re: Doctor Who and we've seen the logic fail with Lost.

Bardock- there is an important principle that only forums that will have worthwhile use are allowed else the front page will quickly fill with garbage. There has to be some reasonable criteria of use.

And for sure- it will not be as popular as Potter, POTC and Star Wars. We've seen not even a fraction of a demand as there was for the first two and the last is the heart of the site.

The new film is not out until '09. That's a notable way off. I advise waiting to see if a buzz for it grows.

Bardock42
Personally I think KMC is hardly in danger of that, it is extremely well organized.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Impediment
I own all of the Star Trek movies on DVD, but, admittedly, I don't own any of the series sets on DVD. However, I've always been fond of The Next Generation.

Personally, I don't know how we've ever gone without a Star Trek forum.


I own all the series on dvd as well as the movies. Star Trek is such an enjoyable series and I'd be happy talk with anyone and everyone about it. Fans and non fans

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Bardock42
Personally I think KMC is hardly in danger of that, it is extremely well organized.

Yes, in part because we only allow new areas that are worthwhile.

Troop
The Star Trek forum is around still so I disagree. ninja

Badabing
14 movies, 5 TV shows, comics, novels and a cartoon. There's enough material to discuss.

Peach
Originally posted by Badabing
14 movies, 5 TV shows, comics, novels and a cartoon. There's enough material to discuss.

You'd think, but there's so very little discussion on it now.

Fuzzy Hawkeye
Originally posted by Peach
You'd think, but there's so very little discussion on it now.

Really? A new movie, constant conventions, 40 years of television shows, we have a Star Wars thread, but a movie hasn't been made in 3 years. Yeah your logic is about as fool proof as spawing unwanted life...*ahem*

Zeitgeist
Originally posted by Peach
You'd think, but there's so very little discussion on it now. Probably because having an entire forums worth of content condensed into one obscure, disorganized, alienating thread is both a poor measure of the popularity of a subject and completely misses the mark of a forum's ability to spread out, and pander to the specific wants rather than random, uncontrolled conversation.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Peach
You'd think, but there's so very little discussion on it now. Maybe that you're involved with. But need I remind you how you took a stance against one of the more popular forums in the past? It's popularity was so high it spilled over into the creation of other forums rather than the destruction you'd hoped for?

So apparently you have no real concept of what's popular. I'm guessing that since you are obviously unfamiliar with this fandom's popularity you'd be unfamiliar with the popularity of slightly more obscure fandoms such as transformers and that its'd surprise you to know how strong the fandom is, and how many differet other message board sites are dedicated to this forum.

Also Peach? You have this nasty habit of attaching yourself to names that I like with slight variations. And no I'm not very fond of you based on my encounters with you in the past and from the horror stories I've heard about you.

So what I want to know is why do you want to deprive this site of potentially more varied discussion, potentially drawing in more members?

More traffic means more ads being seen that I'm guessing are their to help support the site. Since you Don't want the possability for that extra traffic, you're denying the site potentially more support and thus more money that doesn't have to come from Raz's pocket?

Why do you unintentionally and ignorantly want Raz to pay more in that fashion.

Yes, yes I'm well aware of bandwith and the like, but I've hosted a site before personally the extra traffic was welcome ads it meant more people to see the adds... Heck, I was 17 in the positive from this sort of thing.

So why don't you want it arround? You doubt its popularity because you personally haven't seen much discussion of Star Trek?

illadelph12
I believe a Star Trek Forum is completely viable. The fan base is comparable to just about every other franchise which has a forum on this site, and it's creation will likely lure more fans of the franchise to the site as word spreads of it's existence. We have a James Bond Forum, a Smallville Forum, an Indiana Jones Forum, and a Terminator Forum. There's no logical reason that a franchise that is as popular if not more so than all of these does not deserve it's own forum other than personal bias against the narrative.

Star Trek should have a forum. thumb up

Fuzzy Hawkeye
Ush and lana don't believe in democracy is all fellas, don't cha understand?

Peach
Originally posted by Creshosk
Maybe that you're involved with. But need I remind you how you took a stance against one of the more popular forums in the past? It's popularity was so high it spilled over into the creation of other forums rather than the destruction you'd hoped for?

So apparently you have no real concept of what's popular. I'm guessing that since you are obviously unfamiliar with this fandom's popularity you'd be unfamiliar with the popularity of slightly more obscure fandoms such as transformers and that its'd surprise you to know how strong the fandom is, and how many differet other message board sites are dedicated to this forum.

Also Peach? You have this nasty habit of attaching yourself to names that I like with slight variations. And no I'm not very fond of you based on my encounters with you in the past and from the horror stories I've heard about you.

So what I want to know is why do you want to deprive this site of potentially more varied discussion, potentially drawing in more members?

More traffic means more ads being seen that I'm guessing are their to help support the site. Since you Don't want the possability for that extra traffic, you're denying the site potentially more support and thus more money that doesn't have to come from Raz's pocket?

Why do you unintentionally and ignorantly want Raz to pay more in that fashion.

Yes, yes I'm well aware of bandwith and the like, but I've hosted a site before personally the extra traffic was welcome ads it meant more people to see the adds... Heck, I was 17 in the positive from this sort of thing.

So why don't you want it arround? You doubt its popularity because you personally haven't seen much discussion of Star Trek?

What the hell are you even babbling about? I've never said anything against creating any forums that went on to become popular. Nor do I have any idea where this 'name' thing of yours came from considering the only other name I've used on KMC while you've been a member was my actual real-life nickname ermm

And I don't really see why people think popularity = interest. Yes, Star Trek is very popular. There's no denying that. But, what interest has been shown for it on KMC? How much discussion about is has there been on THIS forum? How many movies and TV shows and etc. is completely irrelevant. Transformers is incredibly popular but how active is that forum here on KMC? People begged for a Terminator forum but look at how that turned out. A dozen times people have asked for a Doctor Who forum - immensely popular show, massive fandom...but almost no discussion on here, and what there is is generally between about a half-dozen of us. People begged for a LOST forum but that failed very quickly.

I'm not saying a Star Trek forum would inherently be a failure. I'm just saying you cannot judge the success by how popular it is in other places and how big other forums about it are and how much discussion there is elsewhere - what matters is now much discussion there is HERE. And I won't say 'yes' because I know I personally would not post in it ever, and so far with every new forum created, the majority of the people who vote yes for the creation never post in there.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Peach
What the hell are you even babbling about? I've never said anything against creating any forums that went on to become popular. Not creation, but destruction. then after this another one of the same type was indeed created.

Originally posted by Peach
Nor do I have any idea where this 'name' thing of yours came from considering the only other name I've used on KMC while you've been a member was my actual real-life nickname ermmHow does that invalidate what I said?

Originally posted by Peach
And I don't really see why people think popularity = interest.Gee.. So people are interested in things that aren't popular? OR are you more trying to equate KMC to an elitest clique?

Originally posted by Peach
Yes, Star Trek is very popular. There's no denying that. But, what interest has been shown for it on KMC? How much discussion about is has there been on THIS forum? How many movies and TV shows and etc. is completely irrelevant. Transformers is incredibly popular but how active is that forum here on KMC? People begged for a Terminator forum but look at how that turned out. A dozen times people have asked for a Doctor Who forum - immensely popular show, massive fandom...but almost no discussion on here, and what there is is generally between about a half-dozen of us. People begged for a LOST forum but that failed very quickly.So lack of knowledge of the existence of something is tatamount to people not being interested?
Originally posted by Peach
I'm not saying a Star Trek forum would inherently be a failure. Then why compare it to such? I see nothing that you stand to gain from a denial of the very tance that you just tried to affirm.

Originally posted by Peach
I'm just saying you cannot judge the success by how popular it is in other places and how big other forums about it are and how much discussion there is elsewhere So because there are people whom exist that are interested in the discussion, due to them being unaware of the existence here means that there is no one that would be willing to come here to discuss it?

Originally posted by Peach
- what matters is now much discussion there is HERE. And I won't say 'yes' because I know I personally would not post in it ever,Nor would I expect you to, butsurely you're not going to vote against something simply because you yourself wouldn't use it would you?

That ounds incredibly selfish don't you think?

"I wouldn't use it, therefore it shouldn't exist."

Originally posted by Peach
and so far with every new forum created, the majority of the people who vote yes for the creation never post in there. So you're going back on your denial of your affirmation of this particular position?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yes, in part because we only allow new areas that are worthwhile. Your bias is showing.

Peach
Um, I still have no idea what you're talking about. I've never said anything about the destruction of any forums, either. There are forums I dislike, yes, but that doesn't mean I want them to go away ermm

And I never said I invalidated anything you said, but that what you said makes no ****ing sense.

And really, I have no idea what you are babbling about, anyway. I never said KMC was an elitist clique. What I am trying to get across is that just because something is popular does not necessarily mean there will be enough interest here on this specific corner of the internet to keep a forum HERE going. We have sections here that are immensely popular and that you can find tons of discussion about on other forums but do not do so well here. Just as we have sections here that are huge that don't do well on other forums. It's simply a quirk as to how the internet can work.

And in all honesty, I'd think that if people were interested in discussing something, they'd be seeking out forums/threads to discuss it in. Such threads ARE available on KMC, but as has been pointed out by other people in here already, they are not terribly active threads.

I am wondering where you got "I wouldn't use it so it shouldn't exist" from anything I've said. It really is a fact that most people who vote for the creation of a forum - people who DO say they are interested - then go on to never post in there. It's been seen on here a number of times. Thus someone like me, who isn't interested, saying yes would be simply nothing but false support. I won't say no - but I won't say yes either.

I honestly have no idea why you're jumping all over me for expressing an opinion based on something I've seen happen many times on here. If people want to discuss Star Trek then go for it. It doesn't bother me. I'm just extending a...cautious warning, I suppose, based on how things have gone down on KMC in the past (multiple times) and how "popularity amongst the entire fanbase" doesn't always equate to "huge amount of interest in discussion on KMC".

Originally posted by Creshosk
Your bias is showing.

I wonder what bias that could be because, unless my memory has completely and totally fried, Ush does like Star Trek.

General Kaliero
Originally posted by Creshosk
Not creation, but destruction. then after this another one of the same type was indeed created.

How does that invalidate what I said?

Gee.. So people are interested in things that aren't popular? OR are you more trying to equate KMC to an elitest clique?

So lack of knowledge of the existence of something is tatamount to people not being interested?
Then why compare it to such? I see nothing that you stand to gain from a denial of the very tance that you just tried to affirm.

So because there are people whom exist that are interested in the discussion, due to them being unaware of the existence here means that there is no one that would be willing to come here to discuss it?

Nor would I expect you to, butsurely you're not going to vote against something simply because you yourself wouldn't use it would you?

That ounds incredibly selfish don't you think?

"I wouldn't use it, therefore it shouldn't exist."

So you're going back on your denial of your affirmation of this particular position?
Dude, I think you're missing an important point here. Peach isn't saying that a Star Trek forum would be BAD. She's not AGAINST it. She's saying that based on previous evidence, it's not a sure thing that such a forum would do well here, specifically, on KMC.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Peach
Um, I still have no idea what you're talking about. I've never said anything about the destruction of any forums, either. There are forums I dislike, yes, but that doesn't mean I want them to go away ermm You totally don't recall when you were supporting the notion of getting rid of the versus forums?

Originally posted by Peach
And I never said I invalidated anything you said, but that what you said makes no ****ing sense. Captain Obvious: IT doesn't make sense when you don't understand what the person is saying.

You invalidated one of YOUR arguments when you tried to show evidence that invalidated another one of YOUR arguments.

"I'm not trying to say that it would instantly fail like all the other ones that have instantly failed, but all the other times a new forum was begged for it instantly failed."

Originally posted by Peach
And really, I have no idea what you are babbling about, anyway. I never said KMC was an elitist clique. What I am trying to get across is that just because something is popular does not necessarily mean there will be enough interest Because popular things aren't interesting...

Originally posted by Peach
here on this specific corner of the internet to keep a forum HERE going. We have sections here that are immensely popular and that you can find tons of discussion about on other forums but do not do so well here. Just as we have sections here that are huge that don't do well on other forums. Got proof of this last part? You know the whole concept of KMC having exclusive forums?

Originally posted by Peach
It's simply a quirk as to how the internet can work. Riiight... You related to Al Gore?

Originally posted by Peach
And in all honesty, I'd think that if people were interested in discussing something, they'd be seeking out forums/threads to discuss it in. Such threads ARE available on KMC, AS SMurph already said, a single thread might become complicated to try and follow discussion in when anything you want to say about a topic with a vast array of subjects is all crammed into one.
"Oh the other day I was talking about phaser modulation, now I have to sift through pages of tribble talk to find it"

And you claim to know how the internet works.

Originally posted by Peach
but as has been pointed out by other people in here already, they are not terribly active threads. THREADS... These people obviously know how the internet works. Obfuscation of ability to discuss things related to a fandom really does wonders to sustain interest in the THREAD... or you know not, people don't like being confused.

Originally posted by Peach
I am wondering where you got "I wouldn't use it so it shouldn't exist" from anything I've said.Your arguing against the idea coupled with statments about how you wouldn't use it OBVIOUSLY...

Originally posted by Peach
It really is a fact that most people who vote for the creation of a forum - people who DO say they are interested - then go on to never post in there. And you're arguing against it and one of your arguments is that you personally would not use it.

Originally posted by Peach
It's been seen on here a number of times. Thus someone like me, who isn't interested, saying yes would be simply nothing but false support. I won't say no - but I won't say yes either. But you will argue against it, and you'll try and stem support for the idea... that's tatamount to saying no without saying the word no itself.

"Its a bad idea"
"Don't say no."
"I didn't, I'm just sayuing its a bad idea."

So basically ... you're trolling again. trying to start fights with the supporters by attacking their ideas, but you're not ACTUALLY opposed to the idea, even though you're arguing with the supporters against it?

Originally posted by Peach
I honestly have no idea why you're jumping all over me for expressing an opinion based on something I've seen happen many times on here.Trolls get attacked... its probably why they troll.

Originally posted by Peach
If people want to discuss Star Trek then go for it. It doesn't bother me. I'm just extending a...cautious warning, A rather vocal warning you mean.

Originally posted by Peach
I suppose, based on how things have gone down on KMC in the past (multiple times) and how "popularity amongst the entire fanbase" doesn't always equate to "huge amount of interest in discussion on KMC".So you attack the idea, argue with the supporters but aren't opposed to the idea?

Doesn't that sound fishy to you?
Originally posted by Peach
I wonder what bias that could be because, unless my memory has completely and totally fried, Ush does like Star Trek. Uh huh... pull the other one. He clearly stated that its not worth while... but star wars apparently is...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&q=forumid%3A6+userid%3A8

Lore check on my name before you say word one about my "bias".

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Dude, I think you're missing an important point here. Peach isn't saying that a Star Trek forum would be BAD. She's not AGAINST it. She's saying that based on previous evidence, it's not a sure thing that such a forum would do well here, specifically, on KMC. That'd be credible if
a.) You weren't her pet.
b.) What you said didn't contradict her statements and actions.

General Kaliero
Originally posted by Creshosk
That'd be credible if
a.) You weren't her pet.
laughing out loud Holy crap did I call that. I love it. Every single time I get called on that, it's hilarious because it's all that ever happens.


Wrong, try again. What I said is precisely what she was saying before you obfuscated everything. She even said she wasn't saying "No" to the idea, just that she wasn't saying "Yes", either. Based on previous experience, within KMC specifically, a Star Trek forum would not last.

Barker
If the forum has use, why not?

If it gathers dust, ban everyone but me who voted yes. haermm

TricksterPriest
Yeah.......screw you Lana. You ruined VG versus, so who are you to say whether a Trek forum would fail. And btw, Star Trek is actually active and far more prolific than half the other movie forums on here.

Not to mention it's a groundbreaking series that has spawned numerous classic and original ideas in the Sci-fi genre.

Trek is infinitely more viable than Star Wars, because it's also social commentary, philosophy, future tech speculation, moral discussions and theoretical concepts.

I vote hell yes.

General Kaliero
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You ruined VG versus
*dies laughing*

Ushgarak
Creshosk, cut out that hostile attitude immediately. Peach was simply stating an absolutely relevant fact when she pointed out that there has not been much discussion about Trek around here at all. And certainly you have no grounds to have accused anyone of trolling. If you continue such an unjustified hostile attitude you will be warned.

I'll make this clear- launching such contemptible attacks on those pointing out simple facts is not going to help you get a forum one tiny bit. All of you attacking other members are doing your cause harm. So let's have no more of this silly arguing.

As for bias- I'm a Star Trek fan, genius. Every film, every series, and I've recreated fights against planet-eating blobs with the classic Star Fleet Battles system. That's hardly the darn point. The ONLY point is whether based on what we have seen and from what we know from previous experience is whether a dedicated Trek forum is needed and sustainable.

And I am afraid from everything I can see the answer has been... no. Not really. Wait for the film buzz to rise and then see. That's honestly the best course.

Troop
Most people want one so for now there should.

Jovan
yeah well, like others said: it's not because most voted yes that it will be active.
I'm new here and I'm already intimidated by the huge amount of sections they have here... adding another and inactive one (as there are apperently only a few threads of Star Trek around?) only adds to the intimidations, scaring off new members

well, I'm new around here, so guess my opinion doesn't matter much when it comes to this sort of talks, just thought to toss in my two cents

Troop
Its a forum, no one should be intimidated.

I am just as new as you..well almost.

ScarletSpeed
Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's not a relevant argument; external popularity has no bearing on hiow successful it would be as a forum here. We just had this discussion re: Doctor Who and we've seen the logic fail with Lost.

Bardock- there is an important principle that only forums that will have worthwhile use are allowed else the front page will quickly fill with garbage. There has to be some reasonable criteria of use.

And for sure- it will not be as popular as Potter, POTC and Star Wars. We've seen not even a fraction of a demand as there was for the first two and the last is the heart of the site.

The new film is not out until '09. That's a notable way off. I advise waiting to see if a buzz for it grows.

Yes there is hardly any interest at the moment, but think of the amount of new Trekkies that will join just by having that discussion.

why not just try it out for a while, if it fails then just close it?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yes, in part because we only allow new areas that are worthwhile.

In part probably. Though obviously such things can go to far.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Jovan
yeah well, like others said: it's not because most voted yes that it will be active.
I'm new here and I'm already intimidated by the huge amount of sections they have here... adding another and inactive one (as there are apperently only a few threads of Star Trek around?) only adds to the intimidations, scaring off new members

well, I'm new around here, so guess my opinion doesn't matter much when it comes to this sort of talks, just thought to toss in my two cents

What are you intimidated by? If you need help you can PM me. It's not that hard to understand, though I guess that the first time you view it it can be overwhelming. What you should maybe do is choose one active forum and stay there and have some conversations and explore the site from there. The first months I came to KMC I didn't post anywhere but in the Comic Book Versus Forum. And after that for quite some time just in the Off-Topic and General Discussion Forum. But you get used to the other forums relatively quickly, the subsets are very organized, imo.


Also, I am not sure if anyone ever said that, but, imo, why the History Forum failed, was a decision right from the start that crippled it, to put it in the Misc section. Lots of people never knew that the History Forum existed and where. What should have been done is to make it a subforum of the General Discussion, that way the traffic that the GDF creates would have at the same time advertised the History Forum. I'd be willing to wager that it had become much more succesful than the Philosophy Forum at least.

Syren
I voted yes, I would probably participate if something interested me, much like any forum here. I don't see a reason why there shouldn't be one, or at least a trial run.
Originally posted by Bardock42
What are you intimidated by? If you need help you can PM me. It's not that hard to understand, though I guess that the first time you view it it can be overwhelming. What you should maybe do is choose one active forum and stay there and have some conversations and explore the site from there. The first months I came to KMC I didn't post anywhere but in the Comic Book Versus Forum. And after that for quite some time just in the Off-Topic and General Discussion Forum. But you get used to the other forums relatively quickly, the subsets are very organized, imo.

Bardock, I do believe that was actual quite sweet of you stick out tongue

T.M
I voted no because I am not a Star Trek fan so I wouldn't use it.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Badabing
14 movies, 5 TV shows, comics, novels and a cartoon. There's enough material to discuss.


Yes their certainly is. Not only can we all discuss the tv shows , comics, novels and original movies, but we can also discuss the upcoming movie by J. J. Abrams and the possibility of more movies and quite possibly a future tv show. We can also discuss Zach Quinto's version of Spock and compare him to the great Leonard Nimoy as well as do the same with the current movie cast.

DigiMark007
The negativity only hurts the chances that this will happen. And a "majority" of people wanting one in this thread is expected...but it's hardly a representative sample of all of KMC. So I voted yes, but the opposition has a valid point.

Also lulz at Trick complaining about someone else ruining an aspect of KMC. That's like Yoko yelling at Justin Timberlake for breaking up N'Sync. But at least try to have some class about it. Disagreeing doesn't have to mean b*tching.

erm

Bardock42
Originally posted by DigiMark007
The negativity only hurts the chances that this will happen. And a "majority" of people wanting one in this thread is expected...but it's hardly a representative sample of all of KMC. So I voted yes, but the opposition has a valid point.

Also lulz at Trick complaining about someone else ruining an aspect of KMC. That's like Yoko yelling at Justin Timberlake for breaking up N'Sync. But at least try to have some class about it. Disagreeing doesn't have to mean b*tching.

erm So, which forum is the Beatles compared to the Video Game forum?

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Bardock42
So, which forum is the Beatles compared to the Video Game forum?

Not a forum. It was just a reference to how Trick has nut-punched every comic tournament he's ever been in, from the minor annoyances (dropping out once battles have started) to the major (ruining one to the point of collapse), and how he openly mocks those who enjoy taking them seriously.

Calling someone out for their mistakes is one thing, if it's intention is to improve the situation rather than just bash. But his remarks did not seem like they were intended as productive, and they struck me a bit hypocritical given his history.

Bardock42
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Not a forum. It was just a reference to how Trick has nut-punched every comic tournament he's ever been in, from the minor annoyances (dropping out once battles have started) to the major (ruining one to the point of collapse), and how he openly mocks those who enjoy taking them seriously.

Calling someone out for their mistakes is one thing, if it's intention is to improve the situation rather than just bash. But his remarks did not seem like they were intended as productive, and they struck me a bit hypocritical given his history.

Yeah, sorry, I just wanted to insult the Video Games forums...cause that's how I roll.


BUt really, how do comic tournaments work. For that matter how do those guilds you have in the Comic Book Forums work? What are they about?

Peach
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, sorry, I just wanted to insult the Video Games forums...cause that's how I roll.

stick out tongue

I do have to admit I'm mildly curious as to how I ruined a forum by fixing things up as best I could, especially considering I get next to no complaints from those who actually post in that forum. Or how someone who joined KMC a year after I became the VG mod would even have a frame of reference to compare by...

Nor do I understand how any of that has anything to do with the fact that a lot of requested forums have not had a good track record, in regards to how much activity they get and how long they last. It's a fact that can't be denied ermm

Bardock42
Originally posted by Peach
stick out tongue

I do have to admit I'm mildly curious as to how I ruined a forum by fixing things up as best I could, especially considering I get next to no complaints from those who actually post in that forum. Or how someone who joined KMC a year after I became the VG mod would even have a frame of reference to compare by...

Nor do I understand how any of that has anything to do with the fact that a lot of requested forums have not had a good track record, in regards to how much activity they get and how long they last. It's a fact that can't be denied ermm Now, I get Ush's point about filling the forum. (doesn't it suck that the forum is a homonym?) But I think, for example one trial forum every 2-3 months would not be in danger of that, and there might possibly be great additions to KMC on a whole. Admittedly, I have no idea about the amount of work involved, but just to counter that argument, ya know?

Also, I still think the History forum should be recreated as a subforum of the GDF.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Bardock42
BUt really, how do comic tournaments work. For that matter how do those guilds you have in the Comic Book Forums work? What are they about?

The guilds or teams are basically glorified off-topic chat rooms for people to collect under a vaguely comic-related moniker. I've put the kibosh on all but a few recently, since there's not much need for them. But if they're active and don't cause trouble, I generally don't have a problem with them.

Tourneys vary wildly, but basically you establish a power level (Superman and below, for example), draft characters from that power level (either in teams or amalgamated characters possessing multiple characters' powers) then enter battle with your wild power combinations and attempt to defeat your opponent in the debate. Usually a few knowledgeable, unbiased members are assigned to be judges and determine the winner. The permutations of power levels, combinations, and rule variations is limitless, though, so that's why there's so many.

They're hit and miss...some are awesome, efficiently run and have exciting debates between intelligent members. Other tourneys suck for a variety of reasons. So it's a mixed bag, but generally they're pretty fun.

I made a thread about them in the comic respect forum if you need more info. Should be in the Misc. directory.

Bardock42
Originally posted by DigiMark007
The guilds or teams are basically glorified off-topic chat rooms for people to collect under a vaguely comic-related moniker. I've put the kibosh on all but a few recently, since there's not much need for them. But if they're active and don't cause trouble, I generally don't have a problem with them.

Tourneys vary wildly, but basically you establish a power level (Superman and below, for example), draft characters from that power level (either in teams or amalgamated characters possessing multiple characters' powers) then enter battle with your wild power combinations and attempt to defeat your opponent in the debate. Usually a few knowledgeable, unbiased members are assigned to be judges and determine the winner. The permutations of power levels, combinations, and rule variations is limitless, though, so that's why there's so many.

They're hit and miss...some are awesome, efficiently run and have exciting debates between intelligent members. Other tourneys suck for a variety of reasons. So it's a mixed bag, but generally they're pretty fun.

I made a thread about them in the comic respect forum if you need more info. Should be in the Misc. directory. Nah, I actually think you gave quite a good introduction. Sounds pretty fun if done correctly, I'd say.

We should do that in the Religion Forum. Powerlevel Jesus and below.

Troop
Originally posted by Bardock42
Nah, I actually think you gave quite a good introduction. Sounds pretty fun if done correctly, I'd say.

We should do that in the Religion Forum. Powerlevel Jesus and below. laughing out loud

Schecter
Originally posted by Fuzzy Hawkeye
Really? A new movie, constant conventions, 40 years of television shows, we have a Star Wars thread, but a movie hasn't been made in 3 years. Yeah your logic is about as fool proof as spawing unwanted life...*ahem*

kmc is only what it is today because of the star wars forums. the sw forums are a bit dead now because the hype is over. stop eating paint chips.

Peach
Originally posted by Schecter
kmc is only what it is today because of the star wars forums. the sw forums are a bit dead now because the hype is over. stop eating paint chips.

I think "stop eating paint chips" might be one of my new favorite phrases.

It's a slightly irrelevant argument anyway. Not only was KMC originally a SW forum...just because there's no more SW movies being made doesn't mean there's not other stuff going on within the franchise.

Schecter
but on this off-topic note, i think its time to merge the pt and ot forums considering there is no longer high volume posting to justify it.

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Not a forum. It was just a reference to how Trick has nut-punched every comic tournament he's ever been in, from the minor annoyances (dropping out once battles have started) to the major (ruining one to the point of collapse), and how he openly mocks those who enjoy taking them seriously.

Calling someone out for their mistakes is one thing, if it's intention is to improve the situation rather than just bash. But his remarks did not seem like they were intended as productive, and they struck me a bit hypocritical given his history.

Alright that does it. I smashed ONE tourney. I had to leave Delph's because my partner flaked on me, and I left Red's because I had more important things to do.

Where the hell do you get off characterizing me as ruining tournaments? miffed

I of all people, do not have the right to critizise Lana? HA! I was a poster in the VG versus forum before I posted anywhere else. Do you know how manyposters left the VG versus and why we left? Because Lana let that forum go to hell. Darkstorm Zero left KMC over it. Brainchild, P-Geyser Superboyprime, and myself went to other parts. Alot of the best posters left because she refused to crack down on trolls.

Like when Shin Nikk got warned during a debate where it was obvious the other person was trolling. I didn't like Shin Nikk that much, but it was obvious the other guy he was debating was a troll.

Bardock42
Hahahaha, best posters and VG forum. Ironic.

Neo Darkhalen
If the forum never works out it could always end up like the history forum....

Impediment
The same kind of hype didn't last with The Transformers forum.

However, Star Trek does have, in my opinion, a far larger fan base.

Shadow Spider
Yay Star Trek forum! big grin

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Impediment
The same kind of hype didn't last with The Transformers forum.

However, Star Trek does have, in my opinion, a far larger fan base.



TBT

WrathfulDwarf
Star Trek Forum...mmm

Hey evil twin, whatchoo think? Should we have a Star Trek forum?



Yeah, my evil twin likes the idea.

(He's the Trekkie of the family and I'm the Bat-geek)

Badabing
Originally posted by Peach
You'd think, but there's so very little discussion on it now. Yeah, this is true. Maybe a section just for Star Trek would stir more interest. The Star Trek fan in me would still like to give it a shot. If not a forum then maybe a sub forum in the Movie Franchise forums.

Trick, you have the nerve to criticize mods?? Your own actions speak volumes about your attitude lately and takes away your credibility. Stop now.

Guys, attacking people for disagreeing with your opinion isn't the way to make a point. The thread was opened to see if there is enough interest. I can say that the arguing in this thread isn't going to reflect positively on any new forum.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Badabing
Trick, you have the nerve to criticize mods?? Your own actions speak volumes about your attitude lately and takes away your credibility. Stop now.

Guys, attacking people for disagreeing with your opinion isn't the way to make a point. The thread was opened to see if there is enough interest. I can say that the arguing in this thread isn't going to reflect positively on any new forum.

I don't think Mods should be beyond logical critique, regardless of how one behaves. That sounds to much like "yeah, sure I am bad...but you are worse". That being said, he obviously didn't put forth logical points and just insulted.

And isn't the arguing part of the idea why this thread is here in the first place. Obviously the arguing has to take place without personal attacks, but the thread is basically a debate as well as a poll about the pros and cons of a Star Trek forum.

Ushgarak
I think it is very clear that he was referirng to the negative, personal attack style of argument that this thread has seen.

Schecter
Cjc9nV9p5M4

Bardock42
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I think it is very clear that he was referirng to the negative, personal attack style of argument that this thread has seen. Good thing I covered that then.

Schecter
screw star trek. i think william shatner should have his own forum

DvQwXOCKNLY

Bardock42
Yeah, that guy is gold.

Also, Stewie's Hero.

Badabing
Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't think Mods should be beyond logical critique, regardless of how one behaves. That sounds to much like "yeah, sure I am bad...but you are worse". That being said, he obviously didn't put forth logical points and just insulted.

And isn't the arguing part of the idea why this thread is here in the first place. Obviously the arguing has to take place without personal attacks, but the thread is basically a debate as well as a poll about the pros and cons of a Star Trek forum.
I actually like input from people but..
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I think it is very clear that he was referirng to the negative, personal attack style of argument that this thread has seen. Originally posted by Bardock42
Good thing I covered that then. ....Oh, okay. cool I only was referring to his negative tone.Originally posted by Schecter
screw star trek. i think william shatner should have his own forum

DvQwXOCKNLY crylaugh No matter how many times I watch that it still cracks me up.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Alright that does it. I smashed ONE tourney. I had to leave Delph's because my partner flaked on me, and I left Red's because I had more important things to do.

Where the hell do you get off characterizing me as ruining tournaments? miffed

I of all people, do not have the right to critizise Lana? HA! I was a poster in the VG versus forum before I posted anywhere else. Do you know how manyposters left the VG versus and why we left? Because Lana let that forum go to hell. Darkstorm Zero left KMC over it. Brainchild, P-Geyser Superboyprime, and myself went to other parts. Alot of the best posters left because she refused to crack down on trolls.

Like when Shin Nikk got warned during a debate where it was obvious the other person was trolling. I didn't like Shin Nikk that much, but it was obvious the other guy he was debating was a troll.

You also missed Evangel's tourney, and your mocking tirade against myself and anyone who took them seriously.

If you have specific issues with a mod, take it up in PM. This clearly isn't the place for it. And at this point, 3-4 people have come on to attempt to diffuse the situation, and all you've done is veer further into off-topic bashing. You've gotten warnings already in this thread, so I won't be adding to it, but just step outside of yourself for a moment and realize how unproductive and insulting this is, then either take it to PMs or cease entirely.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't think Mods should be beyond logical critique, regardless of how one behaves. That sounds to much like "yeah, sure I am bad...but you are worse". That being said, he obviously didn't put forth logical points and just insulted.

Agreed. But like you said, logical critique and bashing are entirely separate, and this was neither the right place for it nor was it intended as reasonable commentary.

Raoul
Apologies for being missing the last few days, i loaned my modem to my bro, supposedly only for one night, but that one night turned into the better part of a week...

back now though, and while i don't want to get into an argument, there is one thing i need to say:

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Probably because having an entire forums worth of content condensed into one obscure, disorganized, alienating thread is both a poor measure of the popularity of a subject and completely misses the mark of a forum's ability to spread out, and pander to the specific wants rather than random, uncontrolled conversation.

this post alone illustrates why one or two threads just isn't enough... star trek is as big as ANY franchise on the planet, and has been one of the longest lasting ones too...

the star trek movie is out next year, and support for it can only get stronger, not weaker given how good it seems to be...

that, added to ten movies (at least half of which are critically acclaimed), 5 tv shows (several of which consistently won emmys every year, as well as massive ratings), books, comics, games, memorobilia...

star trek is still popular, it is still relevant, and with this new movie coming out, it can only get bigger and more popular...

all that said, i want to thank those who have given their support to this idea, i appreciate it very much...

as for those who don't agree, well, to be frank, i don't see any reason why star trek shouldn't have its own forum, nobody will be forced to post in it, but there seem to be plenty of people who DO want to post in it, and that's all that matters imo...

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Raoul
Apologies for being missing the last few days, i loaned my modem to my bro, supposedly only for one night, but that one night turned into the better part of a week...

back now though, and while i don't want to get into an argument, there is one thing i need to say:



this post alone illustrates why one or two threads just isn't enough... star trek is as big as ANY franchise on the planet, and has been one of the longest lasting ones too...

the star trek movie is out next year, and support for it can only get stronger, not weaker given how good it seems to be...

that, added to ten movies (at least half of which are critically acclaimed), 5 tv shows (several of which consistently won emmys every year, as well as massive ratings), books, comics, games, memorobilia...

star trek is still popular, it is still relevant, and with this new movie coming out, it can only get bigger and more popular...

all that said, i want to thank those who have given their support to this idea, i appreciate it very much...

as for those who don't agree, well, to be frank, i don't see any reason why star trek shouldn't have its own forum, nobody will be forced to post in it, but there seem to be plenty of people who DO want to post in it, and that's all that matters imo...


QFT

Troop
Originally posted by Raoul
Apologies for being missing the last few days, i loaned my modem to my bro, supposedly only for one night, but that one night turned into the better part of a week...

back now though, and while i don't want to get into an argument, there is one thing i need to say:



this post alone illustrates why one or two threads just isn't enough... star trek is as big as ANY franchise on the planet, and has been one of the longest lasting ones too...

the star trek movie is out next year, and support for it can only get stronger, not weaker given how good it seems to be...

that, added to ten movies (at least half of which are critically acclaimed), 5 tv shows (several of which consistently won emmys every year, as well as massive ratings), books, comics, games, memorobilia...

star trek is still popular, it is still relevant, and with this new movie coming out, it can only get bigger and more popular...

all that said, i want to thank those who have given their support to this idea, i appreciate it very much...

as for those who don't agree, well, to be frank, i don't see any reason why star trek shouldn't have its own forum, nobody will be forced to post in it, but there seem to be plenty of people who DO want to post in it, and that's all that matters imo... thumb up

ScarletSpeed
Originally posted by Raoul
Apologies for being missing the last few days, i loaned my modem to my bro, supposedly only for one night, but that one night turned into the better part of a week...

back now though, and while i don't want to get into an argument, there is one thing i need to say:



this post alone illustrates why one or two threads just isn't enough... star trek is as big as ANY franchise on the planet, and has been one of the longest lasting ones too...

the star trek movie is out next year, and support for it can only get stronger, not weaker given how good it seems to be...

that, added to ten movies (at least half of which are critically acclaimed), 5 tv shows (several of which consistently won emmys every year, as well as massive ratings), books, comics, games, memorobilia...

star trek is still popular, it is still relevant, and with this new movie coming out, it can only get bigger and more popular...

all that said, i want to thank those who have given their support to this idea, i appreciate it very much...

as for those who don't agree, well, to be frank, i don't see any reason why star trek shouldn't have its own forum, nobody will be forced to post in it, but there seem to be plenty of people who DO want to post in it, and that's all that matters imo...

Ushgarak
Naming the potential volume of material is niot really the point. Again, we've just had this whole discussioin with Doctor Who, which has a longer history still- and which, incidentally, has a thread far more active than any Star Trek thread on these boards.

It's not about what could be talked about, it's simply about judging from existing demand whether one is really needed and I am still very unconvinced that this is the case.

I am afraid there is no excusing the point that existing Trek threads are not used much. Other areas have come about due to demand springing out of threads that definitely WERE being used. So you cannot say that the reason the threrad is not being used is because there is too much to talk about. That is not supported by precedent.

As for the 'why not?' attitude- I will repeat onece more, there is a definit and logical sense in only allowing areas that are going to see reasonable use. Otherwise we'd just open up all sorts of nonsense and it would clog the front page. So, there has to be some criteria that we judge by.

And again, past experience has shown that people in a thread like this just asking for a new area does NOT necessarily translate into that area actually being used.

So the only decent criteria is to judge from what is already apparent on the boards- which for Trek is rather poor. Sorry, just is.

Now, if a large amount of buzz about the new film starts to appear and a lot more Trek discussion happens, then that's a good reason for an area. Until then there is absolutely no reason at all why Trek should not just be discussed in one thread, as Doctor Who is.

Troop
And you decide if there is one...

Raoul
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Naming the potential volume of material is niot really the point.

it is when people complain that one thread that already exists isnt being used... star trek is too large for one or two threads...



which is the same thing as i've already said... given the sheer volume of content, expecting it all to be compressed in to one or two threads is silly, imo...



as was i, which is the reason i'm only asking now, because it is only now, after years of believing i am the only (or one of the few) star trek fan on kmc, i realised it was not the case through msn and pm conversations with various kmc members... there is a decent enough fanbase, which is the reason i'm asking...



it is because of star trek's large volume of content that it can't be compressed, it can't be looked at like doctor who or transformers, because they simply didn't have the massive amount of discussable content that star trek has... you cant ask star trek fans to seriously discuss the entire scope of the series/movies/etc within the confines of one thread...



if i didnt think there would be a decent amount of traffic, this thread wouldnt exist.



this thread is not the only indication that a star trek forum would be widely used...



because we have nowhere to discuss star trek outside of the next movie... one thread isn't sufficient.



there is a large amount of buzz about the new film, and it will only increase as the release date approaches...

put simply, i didn't simply wake up one morning and think 'kmc could do with a star trek forum', i've been considering this for a while, a LONG while, and its only after seeing if there was a base and a decent interest in the possibility of the forum, that i went to raz and then made this thread...

Ushgarak
See, you're plain wrong there. Doctor Who has an exceptionally comparable amount (it is older than Trek), and it is being discussed much more, and yet still it's not seen worth giving it its own area.

Seeing as it is more active, giving Trek its own area on that basis would simply nbe showing baseless favouritsm to Trek. It's getting MUCH less attention than Who is.

It is all very well just SAYING there is a buzz about the film- but not on the boards there isn't, and that is the only relevant part. There is no such buzz yet.

If Trek was as popular here as you say, it would be being discussed more. It is NOT a special case that makes it immune to that logic, I am afraid- and that is another fact I state even through I am a Trek fan.

I know why you made the thread. I disagree with you. I don't think it is a sustainable idea- and I certainly don''t think there is any evidence that it is a sustainable idea. There it is.

I'll repeat once more- saying Star Trek is too 'big for one thread, which is why it has never been much discussed around here, is broken logic. Other franchises managed it, Trek can too.

Honestly, the case would be much better made if a decent Trek discussion thread was getting good use.

Bardock42
You made the point again of a cluttered forum. How would a test try for 2 months of a Star Trek forum clutter everything agan?

Ushgarak
It's the principle. If we 'test' that, why not 'test' ever other idea that people want?

No, again, the logic is simple- there has to be solid reason to think it is a worthwhile idea before it gets given space, trial run or otherwise. And my opinion is simply that it isn't, and I feel the fact that Trek discussion on the boards so far has been close to non-existent backs my stance.

Saying such things is what this thread is here for, so that's why I keep saying it.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's the principle. If we 'test' that, why not 'test' ever other idea that people want?

No, again, the logic is simple- there has to be solid reason to think it is a worthwhile idea before it gets given space, trial run or otherwise. And my opinion is simply that it isn't. That's what this thread is here for, so that's why I keep saying it. Exactly. Why not test the most popular ideas in a monthly rhythm?

Ushgarak
Better still, why not simply try ideas that simply appear to have good grounds to believe they will succeed, and not try ones that don't?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Better still, why not simply try ideas that simply appear to have good grounds to believe they will succeed, and not try ones that don't? Nah, I think my idea is more logical. Why not discuss a point instead of trying to ridicule it. If there is any true reason why you think that isn't feasible I would like to hear it. Either way, Raz seems to be okay with giving it a go based on the support it shows in such a thread...I really do not see the big harm in testing out forums that might be popular, maybe there is some, but all the people so far arguing that it is a bad idea did not really produce and viable reasons.

Ushgarak
Well if you do not think they are viable that is your own affair. I see very little logic in your idea at all- it is arbitrary and silly. It is very much more straightforward just to open new areas if there is good reason to think therte is reasonable demand, inbstead of some strange and pointless 'monthly' idea. It is also sensible to expect that demand to be backed up by something demonstrable in threads that already exist, seeing how fallible we have seen people simply saying "Yes I would post there" have been.

I am discussing points all the while, and I find your comment about not ridiculing things entirely misdirected and inappropriate.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well if you do not think they are viable that is your own affair. I see very little logic in your idea at all- it is arbitrary and silly. It is very much more straightforward just to open new areas if there is good reason to think therte is reasonable demand, inbstead of some strange and pointless 'monthly' idea. It is also sensible to expect that demand to be backed up by something demonstrable in threads that already exist, seeing how fallible we have seen people simply saying "Yes I would post there" have been.

I am discussing points all the while, and I find your comment about not ridiculing things entirely misdirected and inappropriate.

Well, it really depends how much work creating and closing a new section is. Obviously randomly opening sections is not an idea and again also not what you I said. I was saying that if there is enough support in a poll and if creating a section is really not a ridiculous effort then I see no reasons why there shouldn't be one or two ideas be tested at a time. Obviously there doesn't need to be a new section every month, just if there a reasonable demand in a poll it could be tried out. I don't see the harm in it as it doesn't clutter up the forum at all and might possibly create a very viable and interesting section.

And, sorry, if you don't like the word ridicule, but that's what your last and this post seemed to me. Ridiculing my idea without any real reasons.

Ushgarak
Well if that's how you insist on seeing it that is, again, your business.

Meanwhile I think it sets a bad precendent to start opening pointless areas and I think it is entirely reasonable for any new area to have demonstable support inside the forums as is before being opened. And what you feel there is your opinion, so there you go again. I have made my opinion and its reasons quite clear and I disagree with yours.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well if that's how you insist on seeing it that is, again, your business.

Meanwhile I think it sets a bad precendent to start opening pointless areas and I think it is entirely mreasonable for any nee area to have demonstable support inside the forums as is before being opened. And what you feel there is your opinion, so there you go again. I have made my opinion and its reasons quite clear and I disagree with yours. Fair enough, I disagree with yours. I doubt we are going to convince each other, so I guess we can call it quits.

Badabing
Okay, I'm a Star Trek fan. I like all the movies, shows, etc. I live in the USA and didn't hear of Doctor Who until I joined KMC and saw people chatting about it and saw Dr. Who sigs. They just started airing Dr. Who here in the States.

I also never knew there was a Star Trek thread here on KMC. It wasn't a lack of interest on my part that kept me from posting on the thread but that I had no clue it existed until someone linked it in this thread.

There are Star Trek forums which do quite well on other sites. I don't know why KMC would be an exception. We get a lot of traffic here and even a section in the Movie Franchises would be cool. The Matrix and Terminator sections don't have much traffic yet they're still here. All we're asking for is consideration for a Start Trek section if there's support for it.

Peach
The Matrix section was also one of the largest and most active (outside of the GDF and OTF) on KMC during it's heyday. Also, Doctor Who did not just start airing in the US - it's been on here forever (though I didn't really hear about it until a few years ago myself, but that's more because I generally don't watch TV anyway).

Anyway, I agree with Ush, there's really not a lot to show that it'd be active on KMC. And you can't go by what works well on other forums as a benchmark for what'd work well here.

Badabing
Originally posted by Peach
The Matrix section was also one of the largest and most active (outside of the GDF and OTF) on KMC during it's heyday. Also, Doctor Who did not just start airing in the US - it's been on here forever (though I didn't really hear about it until a few years ago myself, but that's more because I generally don't watch TV anyway). Really? What station? I just heard about it on Sci Fi. It's on before Battlestart Galactica.
Originally posted by Peach

Anyway, I agree with Ush, there's really not a lot to show that it'd be active on KMC. And you can't go by what works well on other forums as a benchmark for what'd work well here. Are you and Ush opposed to trying if there is enough support or just don't think it will work regardless? I mean we even have Star Trek Dur smilies now.

durofborg durcan





stick out tongue

Peach
Originally posted by Badabing
Really? What station? I just heard about it on Sci Fi. It's on before Battlestart Galactica.
Are you and Ush opposed to trying if there is enough support or just don't think it will work regardless? I mean we even have Star Trek Dur smilies now.

durofborg durcan





stick out tongue

It's been on various channels for years - right now I know it's on Sci-Fi, BBC America, and also one of the local PBS channels. I've only been watching it for a bit under 2 years myself, though I do love it and am glad I got into it (thanks Ush!) stick out tongue

And I just don't know if there'd be support enough to sustain it. And I'd think that if you want to prove there's enough support, stop saying there is and start showing there is. Because I also agree that the lack of activity in Trek-related threads is very much counter-intuitive to the claims that there's enough interest. Prove there's interest by getting those threads going and active. Stuff like that. It works a lot better than just saying "Yeah, we'll discuss it!"

Custom smilies don't mean anything, though, just that someone was bored and had access to Photoshop stick out tongue

Badabing
Originally posted by Peach
It's been on various channels for years - right now I know it's on Sci-Fi, BBC America, and also one of the local PBS channels. I've only been watching it for a bit under 2 years myself, though I do love it and am glad I got into it (thanks Ush!) stick out tongue

And I just don't know if there'd be support enough to sustain it. And I'd think that if you want to prove there's enough support, stop saying there is and start showing there is. Because I also agree that the lack of activity in Trek-related threads is very much counter-intuitive to the claims that there's enough interest. Prove there's interest by getting those threads going and active. Stuff like that. It works a lot better than just saying "Yeah, we'll discuss it!"

Custom smilies don't mean anything, though, just that someone was bored and had access to Photoshop stick out tongue We're trying but this thread got derailed. I know PR has been actively getting PMs in support. I'll look for the Star Treks threads and see what's happening there. Thanks for the idea.

Custom smilies don't mean a thing?! miffed

durofborg says you'll be assimilated. Resistance is futile.


stick out tongue

Raoul
Originally posted by Peach
It works a lot better than just saying "Yeah, we'll discuss it!"

that is not what is being said, to be honest...

i already said myself that i had no idea there were other star trek fans on kmc until very recently, and it was only then that i considered the idea of a star trek forum to be a worthwhile one... so through MSN, pm's and whatnot, i did some research, i asked people if they would post in a star trek forum... alot of people came back to me telling me that yes, they would...

there are several things star trek fans just can't discuss on kmc, so there are threads that i have wanted to make but can't because they would be out of place in anything but a star trek forum... yes, we could use the tv forum for the shows, the book forum for the books and whatnot, but what about everything else?

the technological advances that were inspired by star trek? the political and social commentary that is strangely accurate and ahead of its time? the writing and casting that goes into each venture? the various differences between the shows and the comics/movies/books? the comparisons between the ships, the technology, the characters, the organisations, the major events? all of these things can't be discussed because there is nowhere to put them bar a star trek forum...

i have no trouble talking about star trek shows in the tv forum, but you're talking about one thread per series, which is 4 or even 5? whats to stop them being merged or closed?

if raz turns around and says to build up traffic in pre-existing and new forums, then fair enough, thats what i'll do, but there is the problem that so many threads that could be made can't, because there is nowhere to put them...

also, resistance IS futile... big grin

Fuzzy Hawkeye
when Lana and ush don't want a Star Trek Forum, it just makes the masses want one more, so in all fairness, we should be thanking them Paul, not argueing with them, and their fruitless arguements. erm

Air Hammer
Q: What did Commander Riker find in one of the Enterprise toilets?




















A: Captain's Log

Creshosk
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's the principle. If we 'test' that, why not 'test' ever other idea that people want? Slippery slope fallacy.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, again, the logic is simple- there has to be solid reason to think it is a worthwhile idea before it gets given space, trial run or otherwise. And my opinion is simply that it isn't, and I feel the fact that Trek discussion on the boards so far has been close to non-existent backs my stance. Argumentum ad Ignorantiam.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Saying such things is what this thread is here for, so that's why I keep saying it. Appeal to motive fallacy

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well if you do not think they are viable that is your own affair. I see very little logic in your idea at all- it is arbitrary and silly.Appeal to ridicule

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It is very much more straightforward just to open new areas if there is good reason to think therte is reasonable demand, inbstead of some strange and pointless 'monthly' idea. Appeal to ridicule.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It is also sensible to expect that demand to be backed up by something demonstrable in threads that already exist, seeing how fallible we have seen people simply saying "Yes I would post there" have been. Sweeping generalization fallacy.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I am discussing points all the while, and I find your comment about not ridiculing things entirely misdirected and inappropriate. Appeal to ridicule.


Logical huh?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Peach
Custom smilies don't mean anything, though, just that someone was bored and had access to Photoshop stick out tongue Actually I made those by request.

smile

BruceSkywalker
When the Star Trek forum is ok'd and I truly hope it will be I will simply say "Qapla"

Ushgarak
Creshosk, this is not some silly vs. debate where you can try and use some faux intellectual words used in a nonsensical fashion and feel you have scored points or demonstrated something. Try and actually make a worthwhile contribution to the thread rather than just a pile of rubbish as you just did. Again, your negative, hostile approach is extremely unhelpful to the thread. If you do not have such a contribution then don't bother posting at all. Instead of just making such pointless, semantically empty commentary to entirely factual and relevant points such as "No-one is using Trek threads", try and actually engage and justify the idea that there is sufficient demand for a whole Trek forum. Else you are just trolling.

Again, talking about the possible broad scope that can be discussed... doesn't in any way prove that there is a huge demand to discuss it.

As for people saying they didn't know there was a Trek thread- why didn;t you start one?

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is an unreasonable view- if there was such a demand to talk about Trek, we would be seeing people already talking about Trek! As it is, even the thread about the only currently existing extant part of the franchise- the film- is barely getting any posts at all.

And so again... this case would be much better made if people actually started making/using Trek threads (example- in the TV area) that then see decent traffic.

Oh and yes; Doctor Who has been showing in the States for more the three decades. I watched it when I was over there in 1990. However, the point is that the Who thread is getting posts, which demonstrates that people want to talk about it, even though it has all the broad variety of potential of a franchise such as Trek, which is the (unusual) reason some feel Trek threads have done badly. If Who can have established a successful thread, why hasn't Trek? That is indicative of a lack of real demand.

Demand may well grow with the upcoming film but that's something better judged as time goes by. I feel it's also entirely possible that the interest will just relate to the release of the one film, which is not great justification for an entire area (for the record, I personally feel that 'Transformers' wasn't really in need of its own section either). A broader interest? From what is in the boards, I really don't think so.

Bardock42
Even in a silly vs. debate (ridiculing the past-time of some people now, gee), you can't just throw out logical fallacies. If you can explain why it makes no sense then fair enough, it also shouldn't be to hard if you already know the name of the fallacy, but the words aren't a debate winner in any way.


I still think that there is no real reason not to try a Star Trek forum, nor a Doctor Who one for that matter. If they bomb, they bomb, but at least we tried and it might possibly be an excellent addition to KMC.

Troop
Originally posted by Bardock42
Even in a silly vs. debate (ridiculing the past-time of some people now, gee), you can't just throw out logical fallacies. If you can explain why it makes no sense then fair enough, it also shouldn't be to hard if you already know the name of the fallacy, but the words aren't a debate winner in any way.


I still think that there is no real reason not to try a Star Trek forum, nor a Doctor Who one for that matter. If they bomb, they bomb, but at least we tried and it might possibly be an excellent addition to KMC. Maybe hes just worried about more reports and more work for him. *Shrug*

Ushgarak
Frankly I think it is pretty obvious how Creshosk has randomly applied terms there without any form of reasoning or sense behind them.

Meanwhile, what is it with this increasing personal commentary? Is this that people dare to say 'No' to Trek so they get singled out for attacks and snide comments? A lot of what I see in here is highly unimpressive, for sure.

This debate would be much more sensible and progressive if it kept to the facts at hand rather than simply having a go at people stating supported reasons as to why they do not think this is a good idea.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I don't know why you feel the need to comment on such things, Bardock. Frankly I think the sheer silliness of Creshosk's post speaks for itself, and I am certainly not going to get into the ridiculous obsessiveness of rebutting it point by point; what a waste of time. If you cannot see how silly it is then that is your own lookout. What the...? I agreed with you.

Ushgarak
Sorry, I mis-read, and edited.

Creshosk

Creshosk
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Frankly I think it is pretty obvious how Creshosk has randomly applied terms there without any form of reasoning or sense behind them. There was nothing random about my naming the fallacies you were commiting. You commit a fallacy I pointed it out. Whenever you said that another person's point was silly, or rubbish I pointed out that you were commiting the appeal to ridicule fallacy. When you said you have'nt seen evidence I pointed out that that was the argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy. An appeal to ignorance as it were. Each name was cited against the fallacy that was commited.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Meanwhile, what is it with this increasing personal commentary? Is this that people dare to say 'No' to Trek so they get singled out for attacks and snide comments? A lot of what I see in here is highly unimpressive, for sure. As opposed to those whom are arguing for trek get threatened to be wanred for their disenting opinion? PErsonally that seems like an abuse of power to me.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This debate would be much more sensible and progressive if it kept to the facts at hand rather than simply having a go at people stating supported reasons as to why they do not think this is a good idea. This debate would be much more sensible and progressive if it kept to the facts at hand rather than simply having a go at people stating supported reasons as to why they think this is a good idea.

Raoul
Guys, PLEASE, if you want to argue about this, please take it somewhere else... this isn't a 'should a star trek forum be made' thread, its a 'do you want a star trek forum to be made' one...

when i went to raz and asked about this, he said to go and get support, which i believe i have done...

this isn't a discussion thread, it was not what i intended at all...

you want a star trek forum? you vote yes, you say why, and you leave, simple...

you don't want one? you vote no, you say why, and you leave...

as far as i can see, the people who do want this forum heavily outnumber those who don't, and that's good enough for me...

if raz thinks otherwise, thats fair enough, and when it comes down to it, its his decision...

so please, stop treating this like its a discussion thread... its not about whether the forum SHOULD be made, its about whether people want one, simple as that...

i repeat myself far too much in each post... messed

Bardock42
Also, could we stop with name dropping logical fallacies. They aren't intended as a win-all argument. To know the name of a logical fallacy is in no way better than explaining why someone's argument failed.

Also, like Raoul said it's not a debate thread, I am sure no one minds if some ideas get bounced off each other in an argumentative manner, but to make it a Superman vs. Gokuesque thread is ridiculous.

Peach
Huh, there's rumors about us, Ush. I wonder what those are?

I am curious how the position of "there is not a lot of actual discussion going on which makes it seems as though there is not enough interest to sustain a forum, based on what's happened before" is illogical and based on personal feelings. It's based on what's seen to be the case here multiple times. Personal feeling...that doesn't even make sense, considering that one of the people saying that it likely would not be a good idea is a big Star Trek fan himself!

And Cresh, you weren't threatened with a warning for having a dissenting opinion, but if you want to try and make yourself into a martyr, whatever. You were threatened with a warning because you took advantage of a chance to disagree with someone in order to get incredibly hostile and attack them. Which IS unacceptable and not at all an abuse of power. It's possible to discuss without hostility.

As for the Doctor Who issue - it is incredibly popular here in the US. Nearly as much so as Trek, and has been running far longer. And it has just as much material, many years of airing, a show setup that has it split into two series, and ten incarnations of the main character, as well as several spinoff shows...and yet we have no problem discussing in one thread. It's really not hard to keep track of one thread of conversation among several.

I still say that if you want to prove there's enough interest and discussion to justify a separate forum, to do as I suggested yesterday and get the pre-existing threads active. That would be the best way to do so, by showing instead of simply saying.

And Raoul, you really can't expect to have a thread about whether or not a forum should exist without people discussing why they think it should or shouldn't exist. Not to mention that anytime a forum gets asked for that gets discussed, why should this be any different?

Bardock42
I just haven't yet understood or heard any argument for why it should not be created. We don't know how much traffic it would generate.

I would like to understand how much work is really involved in creating, sustaining and possibly deleting one forum. That seems to be the only real reason I can think of why it shouldn't be tried. We all know that one forum won't clutter up the front page and the "then we have to make forums about anything" is certainly not a real reason as it doesn't follow.

Ushgarak
Cresh, take the hint that all the lead proponents on BOTH sides are telling you to stop doing what you are doing. It's pretty darn ugly.

Storm
How would we go about a trial forum? Star Trek isn' t the only candidate. Should we allow only one trial forum at a time, or multiple? If only one, why would Star Trek get priority over other ones? Should the decision be based on the date the request was submitted, support, visible demand, the potential volume of material, etc.?

All requests should then be evaluated against the same set of criteria.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Storm
How would we go about a trial forum? Star Trek isn' t the only candidate. Should we allow only one trial forum at a time, or multiple? If only one, why would Star Trek get priority over other ones? Should the decision be based on the date the request was submitted, support, visible demand, the potential volume of material, etc.?

All requests should then be evaluated against the same set of criteria. Either is better than nothing at all.

Badabing
I blame Raoul and Bardock for all of this. uhuh





J/K stick out tongue

Raoul
Originally posted by Badabing
I blame Raoul and Bardock for all of this. uhuh





J/K stick out tongue

you would... durofborg

SpikeSpiegel
Enough of the arguing! Won't someone please think of the children! stick out tongue

Badabing
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel
Enough of the arguing! Won't someone please think of the children! stick out tongue Very true. sad

ZoS8j9eNMZU&feature=related

Captain REX
I have to say that I side with Ush and Lana on this, as much as it looks like I'm asking for the KMC Mafia to pay me a visit by saying so. I have nothing against Star Trek though I have never avidly watched it. My concern is that a Star Trek forum would 1) detract from any discussion occurring in the Television forum that is currently going on and lowering the traffic to that section of the boards, and 2) would wither and die shortly after its creation, no matter how much interest is there. It's disheartening to fans and, no matter how much you would say you still love Star Trek, it just wouldn't be much fun discussing it in a slightly dead section.

Just ask the Matrix fans. Since the Matrix films finished up, people are loathe to really discuss anything in that area, even if they still have no issue with that particular science fiction trilogy. And I know that the Matrix only has three films and some side stuff whereas Star Trek has season after season after season since the 1960's, but that is not the point I'm trying to make.

I'm pretty sure it would be the same way with the Star Wars section, if said section had not been cultivated over the past 8 years, and even now the traffic there has greatly decreased due to the hype of the Prequel Trilogy having vanished.

Personally, I sometimes think that some of the side forums should all just be pushed back into the main forums for the sake of keeping the board topped off with traffic.

Just my opinion, of course. If a Star Trek forum could be proven successful, as Storm suggested with a trial run, then sure, why not. But at this point, I don't think it would flourish on KMC.

Badabing
Originally posted by Captain REX
I have to say that I side with Ush and Lana on this, as much as it looks like I'm asking for the KMC Mafia to pay me a visit by saying so. I have nothing against Star Trek though I have never avidly watched it. My concern is that a Star Trek forum would 1) detract from any discussion occurring in the Television forum that is currently going on and lowering the traffic to that section of the boards, and 2) would wither and die shortly after its creation, no matter how much interest is there. It's disheartening to fans and, no matter how much you would say you still love Star Trek, it just wouldn't be much fun discussing it in a slightly dead section.

Just ask the Matrix fans. Since the Matrix films finished up, people are loathe to really discuss anything in that area, even if they still have no issue with that particular science fiction trilogy. And I know that the Matrix only has three films and some side stuff whereas Star Trek has season after season after season since the 1960's, but that is not the point I'm trying to make.

I'm pretty sure it would be the same way with the Star Wars section, if said section had not been cultivated over the past 8 years, and even now the traffic there has greatly decreased due to the hype of the Prequel Trilogy having vanished.

Personally, I sometimes think that some of the side forums should all just be pushed back into the main forums for the sake of keeping the board topped off with traffic.

Just my opinion, of course. If a Star Trek forum could be proven successful, as Storm suggested with a trial run, then sure, why not. But at this point, I don't think it would flourish on KMC. Rex, don't ever go against the family again!
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/MVC-004S-1-1.jpg
FcFlp6kl508&feature=related









stick out tongue

Captain REX
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/Rexus1214/Barbies1.jpg

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