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Voting is not allowed for the first 10 hours of the match. Please let the participants debate. Please refrain from making comments. However if you have an unbiased question that you need to ask that pertains to the actual match, you may do so. The match will be 24 hours long based on when this thread is unlocked. Any vote that doesn't have an explanation will be nullified. Those who have their voting privileges removed know who they are. I ask that they do not post in this thread.

Experience and memories from all previous matches fought are granted to all teams. With that in mind, your team should be more experienced and therefore arguably a better fighter, more motivated, more adept at using difficult or foreign equipment, etc.

------------------------------------------------

Darthgoober
Originally posted by darthgoober
The Silver Adaptoid(Amalgam Lv. 1= 4 pts)

Silver Surfer(Body)= 6 pts
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Silver_Surfer
Super Adaptoid(Mind)= 6 pts
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Super-Adaptoid

Power Copying= 8 pts
Prep Time Lv. 1(15 minutes on the battlefield)= 1 pt.

4+6+6+8+1= 25 pts.

vs

King Kandy

Originally posted by King Kandy
"Professor Strange"

Professor Zoom -6 points
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/zoom.html

Dr. Strange (current and classic)-6 points
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strange

Amalgam Level 1 - combination of two characters - 4 points

BFR (Battlefield Removal): Remove one foe from the field of battle (failure is possible based on plausibility of battle writeup; removed being can come back so long as he/she has the power to do so within 10 minutes) - 5 points

Prep Time level 2: : One(1) hour spent in either a mystic sanctum - 2 points

Knowledge of the opposition level 2: Names and powers provided, but not level of power -2 points

Total: 25 points

Area J


Super-voters will be used for this match along with regular voters. Their votes will count as three regular votes so long as they provide an adequate explanation for their votes. There will be three super-voters for this match. Despite any previous history with the participants, I ask that they should be objective, unbiased and judge the match as fairly as possible.

The three super-voters for this match are the following:
1. id369
2. Mindset
3. Charlotte Debel


This is a direct elimination match. If you lose, you are out of the tournament. If you win, you advance to the final match of the tournament. Good luck.

-Evangel94

King Kandy again. Sorry that this write up couldn’t be longer, but I’ve been having some serious time constraints and probably won’t be able to post much either. But I’ll do my best.

Okay, the first thing I’ll do is, upon realizing the power at my enemies disposal, I will go into my astral form. Dr. Strange has a ring that allows him to cast all his magic in astral form… he wears it ever since it was given to him very early in his career. So Ill transform into my astral form, take all my artifacts, and then I will open up a portal to a random dimension. Since Dr. Strange has bested Death, he gained the ability to come and go as he pleased. If my enemies go after it though, they will have no chance of escaping. This is important because I don’t think Darth has any characters capable of harming a soul.

After that I will create my demon army again, as well as both of the Strangers. Then I will head into battle. This might not fool him, but I will also use illusions to make my army seem ten times larger, so he can’t tell which foes are real and which are fake. Well given he cannot make duplicates any more, he will probably be easy to find. But no matter what tricks he’s used, I will immediately locate the real him, and then I will go and use the eye of aggamoto to send them to the dimension of unreality. Darth won’t be able to escape since his sorcery is not nearly on Strange’s level. If he does something stupid like try and destroy the realm, he’ll have to contend with the powerful beings that live there… Aggamoto and Death itself ring a bell. That’s it. I’ll elaborate more if I have time.

Here’s just a base run of the possible counters to my plan that Darth may use. First off, he may try to escape the dimension of unreality with dimensional travel of some sort. This won’t work because the dimension only has one means of exit: the gates of death. As for those gates, well… the name says it all. You die if you go through, unless you are a sorcerer supreme and can resist Death like Strange. Secondly he may try and hunt for my body and destroy it. That won’t actually harm me in the slightest. Dr. Strange’s body was killed by Dracula, but he stayed alive by remaining in astral form and resurrecting himself, like I am doing. Again, no scans, but I can find the issue number if you need it.

Perhaps he will make duplicates? Well, I believe he won’t. For one, he himself has said it will no longer be a strategy of his. Secondly, the instant tech rule as well as the numerous difficulties brought up will make execution very difficult. And last, they still cannot harm my astral form. I will simply locate the original one, BFR him, and then wait ten minutes and win.

Alright since my primary plan was barred I'm going to keep things relatively simple, but what I have in mind is still more than enough to take down the opposition.

So here's the deal, I didn't focus on it before because I was pushing the Adaptoid army concept but what people need to realize is that my amalgam isn't just Silver Surfer+Super Adaptoid, the end result is worth FAR more than the individual parts. As Dr. Henry Pym explains here...

http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17625832hc0.jpg

...the reason Super Adaptoid is limited in the number of people who's powers he can copy at once is because Super Adaptoid's body can only store/channel so much energy at a time. But the Silver Adaptoid doesn't have the body of SA, he has the body of Surfer and Surfer's body was MADE to store/channel unreal amounts of energy(I have scans ready if anyone needs proof of just how much) which means that I'll be able to access far more abilities at once than SA without overloading. So just how much power can Surfer store/channel you ask? Well let's take a look...

Here Pre-Annihilation Surfer absorbs and channel's enough energy to jumpstart a dying star for 1,000 years...
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6990/silversurferv3103p16fd9.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6012/silversurferv3103p17qd1.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4230/silversurferv3103p18sa8.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9425/silversurferv3103p19ox6.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3851/silversurferv3103p20jo2.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8063/silversurferv3103p21jo7.jpg
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5201/silversurferv3103p22xs8.jpg

Now think about that, if Surfer’s body can contain enough power to keep a star running for a thousand years and still have some left over(since he was obviously not rendered powerless by it) then it means his capacity to store energy is substantial indeed. And keep in mind that’s Surfer from something like 10 years ago and Norrin’s MUCH more powerful now than he was then.

One especially important upgrade he received(and still retains) in that time period was during the Unilord Saga when he joined with one of the Black Bodies. I won’t bother explaining the whole ordeal cause I don’t want to devote that much time to it, but here’s an ample demonstration on the power of that upgrade…

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2833/silversurfer199612022ft5.jpg

The Uni-Lord is at the very least an Elder God level character(and possibly abstract level) and Surfer was able to absorb enough power to beat him, all he needed was time to do it.


Given that level of storage capacity I could easily make a case for the Silver Adaptoid to be able to use ALL of his powers simultaneously(since even the combined power of all SA‘s templates wouldn‘t approach the power of an Elder God), but just to be safe we’ll set the bar a little lower than that. Since I’m going into this battle blind(having no knowledge of my opponents or spying capacity) and lack the ability to recreate my Adaptoid army, I’m just gonna bulk up for battle in Surfer’s “weak spots” for the most part. So for this fight, I’ll say my guy plays it safe and accesses the abilities of Iron Fist, the Scarlet Witch, and Hercules, the Black Knight‘s mystic armor/sword/shield and skill, and Mar-Vell’s Nega Bands.

For the final part of my prep, I’m going to use Surfer’s powers like this…
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7404/annihilationsilversurfetn0.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1810/annihilationsilversurfelr2.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8894/annihilationsilversurfebl2.jpg

…an set up TWO “ black hole time bombs” that are set to go off and destroy the entire battlefield the instant the prep phase is over. If necessary, I’ll revitalize myself between each with the Nega Bands between bombs to replenish my power reserves(though given the apparent ease with which Surfer created the black hole in Annihilation revitalization shouldn’ be needed).

Finally, I use the Nega Bands to revitalize my energy reserves(since I just expended quite a bit turning the battlefield into a black hole”, raise force fields using the Power Cosmic and Nega Bands, and wait for the bomb to blow before using my two sets of Cosmic Awareness(from Surfer and Marvel) to pick up useful info on my opponent(s) and any conditions that stand once Kandy‘s prep is over. I won’t know what course of action will be best until I know what I’m dealing with, but the Silver Adaptoid will be poised and ready to strike as soon as his “scan” is complete.

Okay, just a short post. First off, Surfer has also displayed significantly lower energy absorbtion powers... he was once driven insane by absorbing a small fraction of the sun during Infinity Crusade. I'd like to see evidence that he was actually powered up in Annihilation as opposed to merely using his powers to their fullest capacity.

Okay, second is that since I have no physical body, his black hole bomb won't hurt me. Maybe it will hurt my demons but I also have thousands of illusions swarming him. His proposed method of attack just won't work. My BFR still works, he'll get sucked in all the same.

Originally posted by King Kandy
King Kandy again. Sorry that this write up couldn’t be longer, but I’ve been having some serious time constraints and probably won’t be able to post much either. But I’ll do my best.
Cool and good luck.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Okay, the first thing I’ll do is, upon realizing the power at my enemies disposal, I will go into my astral form. Dr. Strange has a ring that allows him to cast all his magic in astral form… he wears it ever since it was given to him very early in his career. So Ill transform into my astral form, take all my artifacts, and then I will open up a portal to a random dimension. Since Dr. Strange has bested Death, he gained the ability to come and go as he pleased. If my enemies go after it though, they will have no chance of escaping. This is important because I don’t think Darth has any characters capable of harming a soul.
Couple of problems here KK…

Originally posted by King Kandy
upon realizing the power at my enemies disposal

See because according to your set up, you don’t know how much power I have at my disposal…

Knowledge of the opposition level 2: Names and powers provided, but not level of power -2 points

…so your plan to go Astral doesn’t really make sense. Of course even if it DID it wouldn’t matter because the powers of the Silver Surfer…

Surfer follows a dying Puppet Master onto the Astral Plane, battles Mephisto and his demons, and then brings Puppet Master’s spirit back to his body…
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9602/silversurfer199713304sw4.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1399/silversurfer199713305lb9.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7876/silversurfer199713306wg1.jpg
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2033/silversurfer199713307rd7.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8444/silversurfer199713308zo9.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9118/silversurfer199713309dg2.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/903/silversurfer199713310pu6.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/936/silversurfer199713311cx5.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3465/silversurfer199713312fj9.jpg

Astral form or not, if my guys wants to mix it up with you he’ll do just that.



Originally posted by King Kandy
`After that I will create my demon army again, as well as both of the Strangers. Then I will head into battle. This might not fool him, but I will also use illusions to make my army seem ten times larger, so he can’t tell which foes are real and which are fake. Well given he cannot make duplicates any more, he will probably be easy to find. But no matter what tricks he’s used, I will immediately locate the real him, and then I will go and use the eye of aggamoto to send them to the dimension of unreality. Darth won’t be able to escape since his sorcery is not nearly on Strange’s level. If he does something stupid like try and destroy the realm, he’ll have to contend with the powerful beings that live there… Aggamoto and Death itself ring a bell. That’s it. I’ll elaborate more if I have time.
Again there’s a problem with your plan, and that problem is my “black hole time bombs" that are set to go off the instant the match starts. See spell casting requires things like concentration, so when the blast goes off your illusions and the like will disappear. And if your body is still on the battle field(which I'm assuming it is to prevent a self BFR on your part) it means that it's going to be vulnerable to the blast itself.

Also as this scan amply demonstrates….
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5853/illusionslx7.jpg
…the Super Adaptoid is IMMUNE to illusions(even mystic ones). So your illusions wouldn’t even cause my guy to bat an eye even if you were able to maintain them after your concentration is shattered by the blast’s.

As for BFRing me to another dimension… lol .

We’re talking about someone with the powers of the Silver Surfer here which means that BFR is NOT an option because Surfer‘s powers allow him to easily return to any dimension he‘s been in…

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7988/thor44322zs5.jpg

And as for there only being one “door”, who cares? Surfer can cross THROUGH the boundaries between realms whether there’s a door or not. Notice there’s no actual “door” to the Soul World but Surfer is still able to escape…
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5941/silversurfer198800821esvf7.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7686/silversurfer198800822eslx8.jpg

And that’s all assuming that Strange can BFR Surfer in the first place. Let’s face it, if you try to suck me through a portal all I have to do is fly away from the portal.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Here’s just a base run of the possible counters to my plan that Darth may use. First off, he may try to escape the dimension of unreality with dimensional travel of some sort. This won’t work because the dimension only has one means of exit: the gates of death. As for those gates, well… the name says it all. You die if you go through, unless you are a sorcerer supreme and can resist Death like Strange. Secondly he may try and hunt for my body and destroy it. That won’t actually harm me in the slightest. Dr. Strange’s body was killed by Dracula, but he stayed alive by remaining in astral form and resurrecting himself, like I am doing. Again, no scans, but I can find the issue number if you need it.
Right he was killed and had to resurrect himself. If your body dies then I win, it doesn’t matter whether or not you can revive yourself later.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, just a short post. First off, Surfer has also displayed significantly lower energy absorbtion powers... he was once driven insane by absorbing a small fraction of the sun during Infinity Crusade. I'd like to see evidence that he was actually powered up in Annihilation as opposed to merely using his powers to their fullest capacity.
And do you know what happened AFTER the Infinity Crusade… the Unilord Saga. So Surfer had a “low” showing against the sun Sol, and then went on to receive a significant increase to his absorption powers in a later arc. Tell you what, why don’t you try to find another “low” showing for energy absorbing/storing AFTER the Uni-Lord Saga.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, second is that since I have no physical body, his black hole bomb won't hurt me. Maybe it will hurt my demons but I also have thousands of illusions swarming him. His proposed method of attack just won't work. My BFR still works, he'll get sucked in all the same.
Right… Surfer can teleport at will, do things like enter and exit Mephisto’s realm as he pleases, cross multiversal barriers that are hazardous to Watchers and can even resist having his Soul pulled into the Soul World when he’s ready for it…
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3440/silversurfer198801619soxn0.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8549/silversurfer198801620sohi5.jpg

…but for some reason he’s not going to be completely helpless against a depowered Doctor Strange pulling him into another Dimension.

Face it KK your guy is screwed. As I’ve already shown Surfer himself is able to deal with astral types and demons and is all but impossible to keep in a dimension when he wants out.. On top of Surfer’s powers, my guy also using the mystical abilities and knowledge of Iron Fist and Scarlet Witch and the mystic armor and weapons of the Black Knight and within seconds I can also pull up the powers of Dr. Druid and Brother Voodoo to further increase my mystic might and defenses. What’s more all my guy technically has to do is stall, because within a matter of minutes(tops) I’ll also have the powers of Zoom and Dr. Strange at my disposal which pretty much reduces your overall chances to zero.

Okay Darth, you are a good debater but i'm sorry to say you have incorrectly assumed many things and misinterpreted many others.

Originally posted by darthgoober
See because according to your set up, you don’t know how much power I have at my disposal…

Knowledge of the opposition level 2: Names and powers provided, but not level of power -2 points

…so your plan to go Astral doesn’t really make sense. Of course even if it DID it wouldn’t matter because the powers of the Silver Surfer…
Dr. Strange knows Surfer and the Adaptoid. Once he knows who he's fighting, he'll know everything since he's met the characters before.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer follows a dying Puppet Master onto the Astral Plane, battles Mephisto and his demons, and then brings Puppet Master’s spirit back to his body…

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9602/silversurfer199713304sw4.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1399/silversurfer199713305lb9.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7876/silversurfer199713306wg1.jpg
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2033/silversurfer199713307rd7.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8444/silversurfer199713308zo9.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9118/silversurfer199713309dg2.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/903/silversurfer199713310pu6.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/936/silversurfer199713311cx5.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3465/silversurfer199713312fj9.jpg

Um, no. Pay close attention to the third from last scan. That wasn't Mephisto, it was Puppet Masters inner demons, which appeared as Mephisto. AKA this is a mind issue and not a soul one. Good TP though.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again there’s a problem with your plan, and that problem is my “black hole time bombs" that are set to go off the instant the match starts. See spell casting requires things like concentration, so when the blast goes off your illusions and the like will disappear. And if your body is still on the battle field(which I'm assuming it is to prevent a self BFR on your part) it means that it's going to be vulnerable to the blast itself.
Illusions and souls aren't affected by Black Holes, now are they? Gravity means absolutely nothing. With Zoom's power, I will regain my concentration faster then you can react (I know Surfer has incredible speed but he needs to accelerate first and it's straight line speed.)

As for Self-BFR, I already checked with Evangel and she said it was OK, since part of me is still on the battlefield (my astral form.)

Originally posted by darthgoober
Also as this scan amply demonstrates….
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5853/illusionslx7.jpg
…the Super Adaptoid is IMMUNE to illusions(even mystic ones). So your illusions wouldn’t even cause my guy to bat an eye even if you were able to maintain them after your concentration is shattered by the blast’s.
Perhaps, but I also have tons of demons and the strangers to help me.

Originally posted by darthgoober
As for BFRing me to another dimension… lol .

We’re talking about someone with the powers of the Silver Surfer here which means that BFR is NOT an option because Surfer‘s powers allow him to easily return to any dimension he‘s been in…

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7988/thor44322zs5.jpg

And as for there only being one “door”, who cares? Surfer can cross THROUGH the boundaries between realms whether there’s a door or not. Notice there’s no actual “door” to the Soul World but Surfer is still able to escape…
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5941/silversurfer198800821esvf7.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7686/silversurfer198800822eslx8.jpg
Nope. Dr. Strange has dimensional transport powers as well, but he could not escape the realm. I'd say they are even superior. As explained by Aggamoto, there is no way to escape the realm without dying. Absolutely none. Dr. Strange went through the gates of Death after he realized leaving the realm was impossible.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And that’s all assuming that Strange can BFR Surfer in the first place. Let’s face it, if you try to suck me through a portal all I have to do is fly away from the portal.
Well for one, Zoom's powers mean I will be going to fast for you to get away. But actually when someone is sucked into the dimension, invulnerable snake-tentacle things project and pull the target in, as happened to Strange.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Right he was killed and had to resurrect himself. If your body dies then I win, it doesn’t matter whether or not you can revive yourself later.
Nope, why would that be so? Destroying my body won't kill me, i'll just keep on fighting you. Nothing will be stopping me. But since my body is in an unknown dimension you can't do it anyway.


Originally posted by darthgoober
Right… Surfer can teleport at will, do things like enter and exit Mephisto’s realm as he pleases, cross multiversal barriers that are hazardous to Watchers and can even resist having his Soul pulled into the Soul World when he’s ready for it…
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3440/silversurfer198801619soxn0.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8549/silversurfer198801620sohi5.jpg
Dr. Strange can do the same stuff, but even he was helpless to escape from Unreality. It's not just a dimension it's the border of life and death... you have to die to leave.


Originally posted by darthgoober
What’s more all my guy technically has to do is stall, because within a matter of minutes(tops) I’ll also have the powers of Zoom and Dr. Strange at my disposal which pretty much reduces your overall chances to zero.
How the hell will you stall me when I am intangible to all your attacks? And even if you attack me i'll just keep going with the BFR.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Dr. Strange knows Surfer and the Adaptoid. Once he knows who he's fighting, he'll know everything since he's met the characters before.
Yes he knows the SILVER SURFER and the SUPER ADAPTOID, when has he ever encountered or heard of the SILVER ADAPTOID?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Um, no. Pay close attention to the third from last scan. That wasn't Mephisto, it was Puppet Masters inner demons, which appeared as Mephisto. AKA this is a mind issue and not a soul one. Good TP though.

The Puppet Master has never encountered Mephisto so I fail to see why you think his "inner demons" would assume Mephisto's form. The "inner demons" Surfer was talking about was the Puppet Master's troubled and villainous past, which is the reason he didn't want to be rescued. There’s no indication(at least that I’m aware of) that Surfer faced off against anything other than Mephisto.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Illusions and souls aren't affected by Black Holes, now are they? Gravity means absolutely nothing. With Zoom's power, I will regain my concentration faster then you can react (I know Surfer has incredible speed but he needs to accelerate first and it's straight line speed.)
Illusions are useless against me so that part doesn't matter, as for souls I have other methods for dealing with those. As for who's reacts faster between Surfer and Zoom...proof? Show me one reactionary feat from Zoom that blows Surfer's feats out of the water.

Originally posted by King Kandy
As for Self-BFR, I already checked with Evangel and she said it was OK, since part of me is still on the battlefield (my astral form.)
Ah in that case I have a very simple method of avoiding the BFR. All I have to do is astral project myself before you pull me in(assuming you can in the first place). Then if you somehow manage to suck in my astral form it won't be a BFR because my body remains on the battle field.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Perhaps, but I also have tons of demons and the strangers to help me.
All of which are subjected to my two "time bombs" at the outset of the match(each of which are so powerful they create a black hole upon exploding). You have any durability feats for your guys to suggest they'll still be around after the blast's goes off?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Nope. Dr. Strange has dimensional transport powers as well, but he could not escape the realm. I'd say they are even superior. As explained by Aggamoto, there is no way to escape the realm without dying. Absolutely none. Dr. Strange went through the gates of Death after he realized leaving the realm was impossible.
So because Dr. Strange can't do it NO ONE can? Let me ask you, what dimensional crossing feats does Strange have that equal doing something like escaping the Soul World or crossing a multiversal barrier that keeps the Watcher's at bay?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well for one, Zoom's powers mean I will be going to fast for you to get away. But actually when someone is sucked into the dimension, invulnerable snake-tentacle things project and pull the target in, as happened to Strange.
And what makes you think that they're completely invulnerable, the fact that Strange didn't destroy them?


Originally posted by King Kandy
Nope, why would that be so? Destroying my body won't kill me, i'll just keep on fighting you. Nothing will be stopping me. But since my body is in an unknown dimension you can't do it anyway.
Because dead is dead. If your body "dies" then it's a forum win. By the same token, if Wolverine's body is destroyed he loses the match whether he has the ability to regenerate later or not.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Dr. Strange can do the same stuff, but even he was helpless to escape from Unreality. It's not just a dimension it's the border of life and death... you have to die to leave.
When? When has Strange done the same stuff because to my knowledge Surfer's the only person who ever escaped from the Soul World when the wielder ACTIVELY sought to keep them contained. And when has he ever crossed a multiversal barrier into the Realm of an Elder God for that matter?

Originally posted by King Kandy
How the hell will you stall me when I am intangible to all your attacks? And even if you attack me i'll just keep going with the BFR.
Because your not intangible due to Surfer's own powers...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2003.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2004.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2005.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2006.jpg

Surfer’s astral powers alone can give Strange problems and the Silver Adaptoid also has the mystic knowledge and abilities of Iron Fist, Scarlet Witch, the Black Knight, Brother Voodoo, and Dr. Druid at his disposal as well. If you’d prepped to actually combat me in astral form you MIGHT have a chance, but since pretty much everything you’ve done has been geared towards NOT confronting me directly, your amalgam is going to be caught flat footed when I unload on you while you figure out why the battlefield turned into a double black hole and your little “army” was destroyed.

...You certainly are eloquent, but I don't think you quite understand what i'm saying.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes he knows the SILVER SURFER and the SUPER ADAPTOID, when has he ever encountered or heard of the SILVER ADAPTOID?
Um, no. He gets the information on all the characters on your team, Amalgamated or not. But anyway, here's another reason why it would work... Dr. Strange will hear they have adaptive abilities and the power cosmic. Now, given his experiences with the SILVER SURFER and the SUPER ADAPTOID he'll know how lethal their powers are.


Originally posted by darthgoober
The Puppet Master has never encountered Mephisto so I fail to see why you think his "inner demons" would assume Mephisto's form. The "inner demons" Surfer was talking about was the Puppet Master's troubled and villainous past, which is the reason he didn't want to be rescued. There’s no indication(at least that I’m aware of) that Surfer faced off against anything other than Mephisto.
No indication? SURFER HIMSELF SAID THAT IT WASN'T REALLY MEPHISTO! Read the scans! Read what he says right here, because it's EXACTLY what I've been saying!

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9118/silversurfer199713309dg2.jpg


Originally posted by darthgoober
Illusions are useless against me so that part doesn't matter, as for souls I have other methods for dealing with those. As for who's reacts faster between Surfer and Zoom...proof? Show me one reactionary feat from Zoom that blows Surfer's feats out of the water.
He has powers equal to Barry Allen... you sure you want to argue he isn't faster?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ah in that case I have a very simple method of avoiding the BFR. All I have to do is astral project myself before you pull me in(assuming you can in the first place). Then if you somehow manage to suck in my astral form it won't be a BFR because my body remains on the battle field.
Two problems with that idea:

1. Surfer says that he can only separate his spirit "for a moment." so he couldn't keep it up.

2. There's nothing to stop me from just getting rid of the body as well.

Originally posted by darthgoober
All of which are subjected to my two "time bombs" at the outset of the match(each of which are so powerful they create a black hole upon exploding). You have any durability feats for your guys to suggest they'll still be around after the blast's goes off?
How can you be sure they'll detonate at the exact starting time? What makes you think they have that sort of precision? Besides, I can use a spell to boost their speed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So because Dr. Strange can't do it NO ONE can? Let me ask you, what dimensional crossing feats does Strange have that equal doing something like escaping the Soul World or crossing a multiversal barrier that keeps the Watcher's at bay?
How about going to Shuma-Gorath's dimension against his will and every dimension in between? Or the Dark Dimension? Or astral projecting between universes.


Originally posted by darthgoober
And what makes you think that they're completely invulnerable, the fact that Strange didn't destroy them?
As a matter of fact, yes. It's not just that he couldn't destroy them, but that they would not react to energy at all. They are Death's own tendrils so you'll have trouble breaking them.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because dead is dead. If your body "dies" then it's a forum win. By the same token, if Wolverine's body is destroyed he loses the match whether he has the ability to regenerate later or not.
Not really. Wolverine would be incapacitated by killing him. Me? There would be NO DIFFERENCE. I was fighting without my body before and well... i'd be doing it now. I'm not sure why it would stop me. I'm not dead, all that you did was blow my body up. I'm still perfectly functional.

Originally posted by darthgoober
When? When has Strange done the same stuff because to my knowledge Surfer's the only person who ever escaped from the Soul World when the wielder ACTIVELY sought to keep them contained. And when has he ever crossed a multiversal barrier into the Realm of an Elder God for that matter?
Well he went into Shuma-Gorath's dimension and he is actually beyond elder god level, or at the very least equal. And he went through every dimension between Earth and Shuma. You don't want to play this game.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because your not intangible due to Surfer's own powers...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2003.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2004.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2005.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2006.jpg
So what? Surfer cannot maintain astral form for long, and he needs a lot of concentration to do so. I won't give him any chance to concentrate (Zoom's powers, remember? Just because I don't expound on them as much doesn't mean they aren't active.)

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer’s astral powers alone can give Strange problems and the Silver Adaptoid also has the mystic knowledge and abilities of Iron Fist, Scarlet Witch, the Black Knight, Brother Voodoo, and Dr. Druid at his disposal as well. If you’d prepped to actually combat me in astral form you MIGHT have a chance, but since pretty much everything you’ve done has been geared towards NOT confronting me directly, your amalgam is going to be caught flat footed when I unload on you while you figure out why the battlefield turned into a double black hole and your little “army” was destroyed.
I will instantaneously figure it out because of Zoom's quick thinking, while Surfer is still undergoing the necessary concentration to go astral so that he can even THINK of attacking me. Then I BFR him.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Um, no. He gets the information on all the characters on your team, Amalgamated or not. But anyway, here's another reason why it would work... Dr. Strange will hear they have adaptive abilities and the power cosmic. Now, given his experiences with the SILVER SURFER and the SUPER ADAPTOID he'll know how lethal their powers are.
Where was that stated because from what I understand…

#7 The default is no prep whatsoever and no knowledge of who you are fighting. You must expend points to obtain prep and/or knowledge . Superspeed does not enhance prep time in any way. On the other hand, assume instant familiarity with all teammates. Any damage incurred during prep will carry on to the battlefield.


And what you bought was…
Originally posted by Evangel94
2 – Knowledge of the Opposition, Lv. 2: Names and powers provided, but not level of power

Now since you’re not fighting Super Adaptoid or the Silver Surfer why would you get their names rather than just the name The Silver Adaptoid?

Anyway this is pointless for us to debate over because this particular aspect of the rules comes down to what the rule really means which means we’re going to have to wait on Evangel to clarify it for us.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No indication? SURFER HIMSELF SAID THAT IT WASN'T REALLY MEPHISTO! Read the scans! Read what he says right here, because it's EXACTLY what I've been saying!

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9118/silversurfer199713309dg2.jpg

Oh shit I don’t know how I overlooked that, guess it means I need to make note of it in Surfer’s respect thread.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He has powers equal to Barry Allen... you sure you want to argue he isn't faster?
I don’t see why not. Go ahead and start listing off non travel feats for Zoom and we‘ll see if Surfer can‘t match them.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Two problems with that idea:

1. Surfer says that he can only separate his spirit "for a moment." so he couldn't keep it up.

2. There's nothing to stop me from just getting rid of the body as well.
Exactly how long is a moment to someone who’s lifespan is measured in centuries? I think you’re reading a little too much into the figurative language of the scan.

What’s more, if you notice the thing that Surfer was fighting was powerful enough to stomp all over Surfer on the Material Plane, but Surfer was evidently powerful enough in astral form to destroy him in “just a moment”, so what makes you think it’s going to take an extended battle for the Silver Adaptoid(who has far more abilities and powers than the Surfer) to take down your guy when he’s not even prepared for astral combat?


Originally posted by King Kandy
How can you be sure they'll detonate at the exact starting time? What makes you think they have that sort of precision? Besides, I can use a spell to boost their speed.
Because I set them up that way. You seem to be forgetting that I have the Cosmic Awareness of both Surfer and Mar-Vell at my disposal and I can access the brains of guys like Reed Richards if for some off the wall reason I need to work out the physics of it.

But for the record, here we see Dr. Doom using Surfer’s powers to put a “time release” on one of his feats(the freezing of the island I mean)…
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/3527/16freezesislandevolutiohh0.jpg

Originally posted by King Kandy
How about going to Shuma-Gorath's dimension against his will and every dimension in between? Or the Dark Dimension? Or astral projecting between universes.
Impressive, but I seriously doubt that he can do any of that “at will”. Strange often relies on prep and rituals for that kind of thing, so I’m going to need some evidence before I believe that he can do it “at will”. In fact in the scan I posted earlier of Surfer and Thor returning from Mephisto’s realm, Strange needed a tiring ritual just to send Thor to Hades while Surfer can make the jump with ease.

And for the astral projecting between universes thing, that’s WAY different and less impressive than Surfer’s feat of actually leaving the multiverse.

And you still haven’t named anything along the lines of Surfer escaping the Soul World, which seems to be a pretty fair parallel to your BFR tactic.

Originally posted by King Kandy
As a matter of fact, yes. It's not just that he couldn't destroy them, but that they would not react to energy at all. They are Death's own tendrils so you'll have trouble breaking them.
Scan please or issue number so I can check this out.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Not really. Wolverine would be incapacitated by killing him. Me? There would be NO DIFFERENCE. I was fighting without my body before and well... i'd be doing it now. I'm not sure why it would stop me. I'm not dead, all that you did was blow my body up. I'm still perfectly functional.
Your body is still dead…

Originally posted by Evangel94
#9 Victory is gained by killing , knocking unconscious, or immobilizing all of your opponents for 10 continuous minutes.
Your only real case is whether or not Evangel wanted the 10 minutes to extend to the “death” portion along with the knocking out meaning that you have to stay dead for 10 minutes. If that’s the case though, what makes you think you’ll be able to recreate your body and revive yourself in 10 minutes while under assault from my guy?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well he went into Shuma-Gorath's dimension and he is actually beyond elder god level, or at the very least equal. And he went through every dimension between Earth and Shuma. You don't want to play this game.
Again, scans or issue numbers please.


Originally posted by King Kandy
So what? Surfer cannot maintain astral form for long, and he needs a lot of concentration to do so. I won't give him any chance to concentrate (Zoom's powers, remember? Just because I don't expound on them as much doesn't mean they aren't active.)
We’re not talking about the Silver Surfer though are we, we’re talking about the Silver Adaptoid. And the Silver Adaptoid isn’t dependant on things like Surfer’s concentration, because he has the combined concentration of the Super Adaptoid himself, Iron Fist, Scarlet Witch, Brother Voodoo, Dr. Druid, the Black Knight, and Mar-Vell to draw from.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I will instantaneously figure it out because of Zoom's quick thinking, while Surfer is still undergoing the necessary concentration to go astral so that he can even THINK of attacking me. Then I BFR him.
Proof that Zoom’s mind works “instantaneously”?`

On another note, I want to know why you think Doctor Strange is sending his body to another dimension when the rules clearly state…
Originally posted by Evangel94
An impenetrable force field with a diameter of 10 miles surrounds these environments in all directions and it prevents anyone from going in or out. (This includes teleporters.) Thus, no one can be summoned, even from other dimensions, to help. The locations however do have their natural inhabitants (except evacuated cities), so characters who can control animals can still call on them to help. Opponents start on opposite sides of the battlefield..

Just because Evangel ruled that your plan didn’t qualify as self BFR doesn’t mean that you can actually get past the Force Field that prevents teleportation.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I don’t see why not. Go ahead and start listing off non travel feats for Zoom and we‘ll see if Surfer can‘t match them.
Okay first off Zoom can move so fast he vibrates through matter. That requires constant movement and changes in movement.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Exactly how long is a moment to someone who’s lifespan is measured in centuries? I think you’re reading a little too much into the figurative language of the scan.
And I think you're rationalizing what he says in the scan. Surfer reacts in microseconds, surely he would feel how long it takes in accurate terms. Actually given how fast his consciousness moves a long time could actually be even shorter then I thought.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What’s more, if you notice the thing that Surfer was fighting was powerful enough to stomp all over Surfer on the Material Plane, but Surfer was evidently powerful enough in astral form to destroy him in “just a moment”, so what makes you think it’s going to take an extended battle for the Silver Adaptoid(who has far more abilities and powers than the Surfer) to take down your guy when he’s not even prepared for astral combat?
Because that monster, according to the following scan never thought the astral plane was deadly, and thus it never worked to protect itself. Strange is an expert on astral combat.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2005.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because I set them up that way. You seem to be forgetting that I have the Cosmic Awareness of both Surfer and Mar-Vell at my disposal and I can access the brains of guys like Reed Richards if for some off the wall reason I need to work out the physics of it.

But for the record, here we see Dr. Doom using Surfer’s powers to put a “time release” on one of his feats(the freezing of the island I mean)…
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/3527/16freezesislandevolutiohh0.jpg
Okay, just how accurate is your time bomb? Because if it's not 100% accurate, that tiny, microsecond long gap is enough for Zoom to pwn your character. In fact, Zoom can go pwn your character while the bombs are going off!

Originally posted by darthgoober
Impressive, but I seriously doubt that he can do any of that “at will”. Strange often relies on prep and rituals for that kind of thing, so I’m going to need some evidence before I believe that he can do it “at will”. In fact in the scan I posted earlier of Surfer and Thor returning from Mephisto’s realm, Strange needed a tiring ritual just to send Thor to Hades while Surfer can make the jump with ease.
I don't know why that is. He has shown instantaneous transport before... There's some good scans of his transdimensional travel in his and Shuma's respect threads, I used one of them in my opening match.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And for the astral projecting between universes thing, that’s WAY different and less impressive than Surfer’s feat of actually leaving the multiverse.
I don't see why. And since Dr. Strange has also done this with his physical body it doesn't matter anyway.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And you still haven’t named anything along the lines of Surfer escaping the Soul World, which seems to be a pretty fair parallel to your BFR tactic.
I think him entering Shuma-Gorath's realm against his will qualifies, also he left the realm of unreality against the will of Death itself (high end abstract.)

Originally posted by darthgoober
Scan please or issue number so I can check this out.
In Dr. Strange v2, #1 Death draws him into the realm of unreality against his will. In issue five it is shown that Dr. Strange can preform the same feet using the Eye of Aggamoto. You should also read the issues in between since they show how futile it is to try and leave the realm of unreality.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Your body is still dead…
Well, that's my body. My soul is still very much alive, and i'll keep on fighting thank you very much. This is kind of a moot point though since you have no way of accessing my body anyway.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Your only real case is whether or not Evangel wanted the 10 minutes to extend to the “death” portion along with the knocking out meaning that you have to stay dead for 10 minutes. If that’s the case though, what makes you think you’ll be able to recreate your body and revive yourself in 10 minutes while under assault from my guy?
Dr. Strange was able to resurrect his body after Dracula killed it in under ten minutes. It took him longer but that was because he needed to break Dracula's curse first though. He'll have no such restriction in this fight.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again, scans or issue numbers please.
The scans detailing that exact showing are in the Shuma-Gorath respect thread.

Originally posted by darthgoober
We’re not talking about the Silver Surfer though are we, we’re talking about the Silver Adaptoid. And the Silver Adaptoid isn’t dependant on things like Surfer’s concentration, because he has the combined concentration of the Super Adaptoid himself, Iron Fist, Scarlet Witch, Brother Voodoo, Dr. Druid, the Black Knight, and Mar-Vell to draw from.
Well since it's the Super Adaptoid's mind, what's the proof that you can go astral at all? Adaptoid doesn't know how to do that.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Proof that Zoom’s mind works “instantaneously”?`
Well not instantaneously per say, but faster then light just like every flash.

Originally posted by darthgoober
On another note, I want to know why you think Doctor Strange is sending his body to another dimension when the rules clearly state…


Just because Evangel ruled that your plan didn’t qualify as self BFR doesn’t mean that you can actually get past the Force Field that prevents teleportation.
She has said numerous times that you could send people to other dimensions. In fact, she later modified the rules to "You can leave the sphere, but it's automatic elimination if you do."

I will go dig up the quote.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Question: If it's impossible to teleport in and out of the forcefield, how is BFR supposed to work?

Originally posted by Evangel94
Let me rephrase...

The forcefield prevents anyone from 'physically' leaving (including teleporters like nightcrawler who can teleport in and out, and in and out), and it prevents you from summoning help from other dimensions (summoning one of your comrades back from a BFR or summoning some giant super powerful monster to help).

However you can 'transport' or 'bfr' your opponents via magic, tech, or other means from the battlefield. So, Dr. Strange opening a dimensional rift via magic, Dr. Doom opening a portal via tech, or Darkseid using the Omega beams to remove one opponent from the battlefield is allowed.

All transported or bfr'd beings can return if they have the power to so. For example, Thor spinning his hammer and transporting himself back to the battlefield or Dr. Strange casting a spell to return.

However you cannot physically return to the battlefield. ie Superman flying really really fast back to the battlefield.

I hope I cleared it up.


-Evangel94

So you CAN leave the battlefield through dimensional travel and other means. You just get eliminated for doing it. But in my case i'm allowed to do so since Evangel took the view that it wasn't BFR if part of the character still remained inside (my astral form.)

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay first off Zoom can move so fast he vibrates through matter. That requires constant movement and changes in movement.
Well that’s nifty and all, but exactly how fast does someone have to be to do that kind of thing? See if you’re going to make the claim that Zoom’s faster we need QUANTIFIABLE speed feats. Otherwise we have to count Karnak as having reflexes equal to Zoom do to his being able to vibrate his hand to hit an intangible Vision.

Here tell you what, I’ll start…

Searches the surface of the entire planet in a matter of seconds…
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7694/silversurferannual0508tc4.jpg

Surfer travels to nearly every capital city on Earth and attacks it in a matter of seconds…
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1483/silversurfer0105mo5.jpg

Surfer dodges at FTL speeds in combat…
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-14.jpg

Surfer has nanosecond reaction times
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg

Originally posted by King Kandy
And I think you're rationalizing what he says in the scan. Surfer reacts in microseconds, surely he would feel how long it takes in accurate terms. Actually given how fast his consciousness moves a long time could actually be even shorter then I thought.
You’re making the wrong case if you want to contend that Zoom thinks faster than Surfer.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Because that monster, according to the following scan never thought the astral plane was deadly, and thus it never worked to protect itself. Strange is an expert on astral combat.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2005.jpg
Yes Strange IS an expert at astral combat, but unfortunately he’s not ready for it. You didn’t take any special measures to “protect youself" because you didn’t think my character was a threat there, just like the creature in that scan.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, just how accurate is your time bomb? Because if it's not 100% accurate, that tiny, microsecond long gap is enough for Zoom to pwn your character. In fact, Zoom can go pwn your character while the bombs are going off!
As accurate as Reed’s mind can make it when he has two different forms of Cosmic Awareness working for him. I’d say that’s pretty damn accurate.

Originally posted by King Kandy

I don't know why that is. He has shown instantaneous transport before... There's some good scans of his transdimensional travel in his and Shuma's respect threads, I used one of them in my opening match.
Because Strange isn’t much a very consistent character that’s why. For just about every showing of him going up against someone like Shuma, there’s another of him getting taken down by a single blast from Magneto or getting taken out by ninja’s. But if you’re just wanting to go by the HIGHEST showings then that’s cool with me, because it means that my character’s body can contain energy equal to an Elder God and use ALL his templates at once(which would put him at skyfather level minimum since I‘d have the combined powers and abilities of Surfer, Captain America, Edwin Jarvis, Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell), Thor, Hercules, Masters of Evil, Doctor Druid, Black Knight, Wasp, Hawkeye, Iron Man, Quicksilver, Beast, Giant-Man, Scarlet Witch, Spider-Man, Fixer, Mentallo, Machine Man, Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, Captain Marvel, Hulk, Controller, Vanisher, Dreadnought, Dragon Man, Stature, Mister Fear, Eel, Blitz, Doctor Doom, Madame Menace, Thermite, Tangle, Plantman, Stingray, She-Hulk, Ant-Man, Awesome Android, Sentry 459, TESS-One, Marrina, Namor, Blastaar, Annihilus, Vision, Iron Fist, Baron Zemo, MACH-IV, Songbird, Atlas, Moonstone, Jolt, Todd Martin, Thing, Red Skull, Brother Voodoo, Shang-Chi, Luke Cage, Heroes for Hire, Machinesmith, Multiple Man, Havok, Polaris, Iceman, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Angel, Professor X, Superia, Doctor Minerva, Nick Fury, MODAM, War Machine, Animus, Tyrr, Jarr, War Machines, Sons of the Serpent, Black Panther, Moondragon, and the Phalanx).

Not to mention the fact that I also have the powers of Waverider, Metro, Lex Luthor, Ultimate Reed, and the Doctor from previous rounds since we retain our memories now.


Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't see why. And since Dr. Strange has also done this with his physical body it doesn't matter anyway.
Because Astral Forms work differently than physical forms. Classic Psylock could travel to other dimensions via Astral Form, it doesn’t mean that she could make the trip on foot.

And when has Strange done it with his physical body without prep?


Originally posted by King Kandy
I think him entering Shuma-Gorath's realm against his will qualifies, also he left the realm of unreality against the will of Death itself (high end abstract.)
So you find leaving the Realm of Unreality to be equivalent to escaping the Soul Gem… Cool than it means that Surfer can do it.


Originally posted by King Kandy
In Dr. Strange v2, #1 Death draws him into the realm of unreality against his will. In issue five it is shown that Dr. Strange can preform the same feet using the Eye of Aggamoto. You should also read the issues in between since they show how futile it is to try and leave the realm of unreality.
Doesn’t matter since you just admitted that Surfer should be able to escape since he escaped the Soul World. Also, I thought you said Strange COULDN”T escape…


Originally posted by King Kandy
Dr. Strange can do the same stuff, but even he was helpless to escape from Unreality. It's not just a dimension it's the border of life and death... you have to die to leave.



Originally posted by King Kandy
Well, that's my body. My soul is still very much alive, and i'll keep on fighting thank you very much. This is kind of a moot point though since you have no way of accessing my body anyway.
It doesn’t matter if you’re soul’s still active, the rules clearly state that if you die you lose…


Originally posted by King Kandy
Dr. Strange was able to resurrect his body after Dracula killed it in under ten minutes. It took him longer but that was because he needed to break Dracula's curse first though. He'll have no such restriction in this fight.
No this time he’s supposed to be fighting someone who’s a LOT more powerful than Dracula while he’s doing it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well since it's the Super Adaptoid's mind, what's the proof that you can go astral at all? Adaptoid doesn't know how to do that.
Here you go…
Originally posted by Evangel94
#6 Each team is allowed only one amalgam. These cannot be pre-existing amalgams from cross-overs. They are your own home-made amalgam. Amalgam combinations from the comics, e.g.Doom/Surfer, will not necessarily be like how they appeared in the comics. Amalgam powers are not cumulative, i.e., merging Wonder Man and Wonder Woman does not give you CL 200 strength; you are simply whoever is the strongest in their respective power categories. You must designate whose mind and body the amalgam possesses. All amalgams will have full knowledge of how to use all their powers.



Originally posted by King Kandy
Well not instantaneously per say, but faster then light just like every flash.
And Surfer…


Originally posted by King Kandy
She has said numerous times that you could send people to other dimensions. In fact, she later modified the rules to "You can leave the sphere, but it's automatic elimination if you do."

I will go dig up the quote.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So you CAN leave the battlefield through dimensional travel and other means. You just get eliminated for doing it. But in my case i'm allowed to do so since Evangel took the view that it wasn't BFR if part of the character still remained inside (my astral form.)

I fail to see how that justifies the move. She was answering a question in regards to BFR’ing your opponent, she made no mention of your being able to teleport yourself outside the battlefield. But it seems that we’ve come to another impasse, because this particular issue is one that Evangel’s going to have to rule on.

I am going to post the PM's I received from King Kandy just so we're clear here.



In reply I wrote.



So basically King Kandy wants to partially BFR his body from the battlefield to avoid taking any physical damage. He is doing that by separating his soul/astral projection/consciousness/spirit from his body, and teleporting his body out of the match. Now once you remove your own body from the match you can't use it anymore for the duration of the match. The only thing left of Dr. Strange on the battlefield is an astral shell containing his spirit.

Now those who are familiar with astral projecting in marvel knows it comes at a certain cost: Your astral self must to return to your physical body within a certain amount of time depending on the user.

But since King Kandy dumped his body to a different dimension to completely avoid a physical battle, he now has no body to return to on the battlefield. King Kandy is basically on a time limit on how long he can last depending on Dr. Strange's endurance before his astral self is also forced to leave and return to his body which is off the battlefield and therefore complete the BFR and give darthgoober the win.

-----------------------------------------

For King Kandy to win: Since King Kandy can't be hurt physically, it all really boils down to if King Kandy can successfully and permanently BFR Silver Adaptoid from the battlefield before his astral form must leave and return to his body. And if King Kandy can BFR darthgoober's amalgam, can he also wait the wait the full 10 minutes to gain the win. King Kandy is going to have to argue about Dr. Strange's abilities in astral projection here since I am not exactly sure what spells Dr. Strange can cast while in astral form.

For Darthgoober to win: Since Darthgoober can't hurt King Kandy physically, it boils down to if Darthgoober can hurt King Kandy's astral/spirit form whether it be psychically, magically, or otherwise. Also, Darthgoober needs to argue if Silver Adaptoid can return to the battlefield despite King Kandy's BFR attempt and outlast King Kandy astral form time limit to get the win, or if he can avoid getting BFR'd altogether.

King Kandy traded his physical body for complete physical protection on a time limit. Was this a good or bad idea? Who knows. This is up for the supervoters and voters to decide.

-Evangel94

The BFR rule has been clarified and re-written a couple of times. As of now, it's a physically impenetrable spherical forcefield with a diameter of 10 miles. If your own character teleports their entire self out of the battlefield (even someone like nightcrawler) then its considered self-bfr and they cannot return. If you remove your enemy from the battlefield via teleporting, transporting via a spell or tech, or throwing them through a dimentional portal into another dimension, they have 10 minutes to return or they are disqualified. The enemy BFR character cannot physically return to the battlefield (no flying at mega speed from wherever they were sent to back to the battlefield). Characters on the battlefield cannot summon help (ala hordes of hell to do your bidding or teleporting in a robotic army) or summon BFR'd characters back.

In King Kandy's case, he partially BFR'd himself from the battlefield, but left his astral/soul essence of the battlefield. His body can no longer be used in the battle, but can still fight in his astral form. However, his astral form has a time limit, and must eventually return to his body. If he can win in astral form before he must return is another matter entirely.

-Evangel94

Well that kinda sucks, but it’s no where near the end of the world for my team. It just means that Kandy won’t be dead in the opening second of the match as I’d originally planned.

Anyway that rule clarification actually opens up a whole new path to victory for me. See it goes like this, remember when I said that I’d use Mar-Vell and Surfer’s CA’s to scan for info at the outset of the battle? Well if Kandy’s in astral form I’m going to detect that and I’ll go into astral form myself and press an attack. Now Kandy thinks he’s safe because he only committed a partial BFR, but in actuality that move kinda screwed him because he didn’t know I’d be able to meet him on that plane(if he had, he wouldn’t have done it).

Since Kandy NEVER set himself up for astral combat(since he was convinced I couldn’t attack him) and we’ve seen nothing to suggest that Zoom’s speed is >Surfer’s, it means he’s going to be ill prepared when I come in with guns blazing. Spellcasting require concentration and complicated movements and gestures and Kandy’s not going to have time to open cast the spell necessary if I come blasting as soon as he’s within eyesight. Since Surfer can see lightyears away, it means I’ll see him as soon as I pick him up with my Cosmic Awareness and can start blasting before he finish the spell to open the Eye. Given the vast amount of powers at my disposal and the fact that Kandy was ill prepared for the attack I see my guy making quick work of him. Kandy went astral at the beginning of his prep and he’s burning through huge reserves of power with the army and such so he’s just not going to have enough to hang.

And if he somehow manages to cast the spell it’s still not going to matter because Surfer’s faster than some old mystic tentacles any day of the week and twice on Sunday(at least until I see some speed feats for these “Death Tentacles”). It’s a simple matter for me to teleport behind Kandy…

Surfer teleports in combat…
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7996/ffannual05silversurfer1tl0.jpg


…and get him in an “Astral Headlock” backed by the Power Cosmic. Then even if the tentacles manage to grab me I’m anchored to him and if they pull me in it means I’ll be taking Kandy with me. Since that means that Kandy will be teleporting the only remaining portion of himself to another dimension it goes from “Partial self BFR” to “Full self BFR” and Kandy is disqualified. His only hope is to shut down the spell, and that just makes attacking him even easier.


But honestly, it wouldn’t matter if I DID end up getting pulled in because Surfer CAN escape. All Dr. Strange had to do was confront Death and CHOOSE to be real…
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8686/drstrangemaster0413fc9.jpg
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5898/drstrangemaster0414vq0.jpg

Silver Adaptoid has access to two different versions of Cosmic Awareness and the mystic senses of several characters working for him so he’s going to pick up on that kind of thing right away. Given Surfer’s speed(traveling lightyears in moments and such) he’s going to be getting out a fair share faster than Strange did, I‘ll probably be back in the “real world“ before Strange finishes his victory cheer.

Once he’s in the real world again, it’s a simple matter to teleport back to the battlefield and resume my assault. Unless I’m mistaken Evangel said that the BFR tactic could only be used once per match, when I get back I won’t even have to concern myself with anything other than unloading on Kandy and as we‘ve already covered Kandy doesn‘t have a chance in Hell in direct combat.




And there’s a couple of other POSSIBILITIES for my character to take out his astral form I’d just like to point out. I’m not positive about either of these(I have PM’s out asking about them) but some of the judges might so I want to bring them up and allow the judges to speak up if they have info on them.

One of the characters whose template I’m accessing is the Black knight and with that Template I get the Sword of Light. Mystic blades are often enchanted to hit “ghost” type characters and it wouldn’t surprise me if the Sword of Light could too. Since these things normally have their own astral form(allowing you to take them on the Astral Plane) it would mean that I can end this fight with a single swipe from the sword from behind. So if any of the judges know of the Sword having that kind of enchantment speak up(I’m not much of a BK fan).

Also, another character whose powers I’m using is Iron Fist, and that’s another attack that seems like it would affect the incorporeal(given it’s spiritual nature). If so then just like the Sword of Light it would mean that Kandy’s character could easily be one shotted.

I know my vote doewsn't count for anything but I'm voting for DarthGoober.

I still don't buy the whole "increaseing speed decreases casting time" non-sense. Goober has been shown to be able to both return from other dimensions and attack astral forms.

Also question wouldn't BFRing the body also get rid of the

Professor Zoom -6 points
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/zoom.html

Aspect of the amalgam? Because I don't recall seeing flash styles of speed increasing the speed of astral projections...

Also I noticed with this:
"Characters on the battlefield cannot summon help (ala hordes of hell to do your bidding or teleporting in a robotic army) "

It'd just be Professor Strange and not the demon army he was talking about.

That timelimit's also going to be a pain for Kandy, so he's really looking crippled here and the SIlver Adaptoid looks... not as hindered...

So that's why I'm voting for Goober with my worthless vote.

First match post was 4:35 PM my time. +10 hours would be 2:35 AM my time. its now 7:59 AM my time.

You've been totally twisting my meaning.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well that’s nifty and all, but exactly how fast does someone have to be to do that kind of thing? See if you’re going to make the claim that Zoom’s faster we need QUANTIFIABLE speed feats. Otherwise we have to count Karnak as having reflexes equal to Zoom do to his being able to vibrate his hand to hit an intangible Vision.

Here tell you what, I’ll start…

Searches the surface of the entire planet in a matter of seconds…
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7694/silversurferannual0508tc4.jpg

Surfer travels to nearly every capital city on Earth and attacks it in a matter of seconds…
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1483/silversurfer0105mo5.jpg

Surfer dodges at FTL speeds in combat…
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-14.jpg

Surfer has nanosecond reaction times
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
Dude I thought you said no travel feats. Well I will dig up some scans if i've got time.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You’re making the wrong case if you want to contend that Zoom thinks faster than Surfer.
Not really. Surfer thinks ultra-quick. Zoom thinks faster. Surfer's astral projection lasts "only a moment" to someone who can react in microseconds! That's pretty short!

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes Strange IS an expert at astral combat, but unfortunately he’s not ready for it. You didn’t take any special measures to “protect youself" because you didn’t think my character was a threat there, just like the creature in that scan.
Yes, because CLEARLY the fact that i'm in astral form, am using spells against you, and am wearing that lets me cast astral spells i'm not going to be prepared.

Originally posted by darthgoober
As accurate as Reed’s mind can make it when he has two different forms of Cosmic Awareness working for him. I’d say that’s pretty damn accurate.
But nothing quantifiable? What's Reed's greatest feat of tech precision?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because Strange isn’t much a very consistent character that’s why. For just about every showing of him going up against someone like Shuma, there’s another of him getting taken down by a single blast from Magneto or getting taken out by ninja’s. But if you’re just wanting to go by the HIGHEST showings then that’s cool with me, because it means that my character’s body can contain energy equal to an Elder God and use ALL his templates at once(which would put him at skyfather level minimum since I‘d have the combined powers and abilities of Surfer, Captain America, Edwin Jarvis, Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell), Thor, Hercules, Masters of Evil, Doctor Druid, Black Knight, Wasp, Hawkeye, Iron Man, Quicksilver, Beast, Giant-Man, Scarlet Witch, Spider-Man, Fixer, Mentallo, Machine Man, Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, Captain Marvel, Hulk, Controller, Vanisher, Dreadnought, Dragon Man, Stature, Mister Fear, Eel, Blitz, Doctor Doom, Madame Menace, Thermite, Tangle, Plantman, Stingray, She-Hulk, Ant-Man, Awesome Android, Sentry 459, TESS-One, Marrina, Namor, Blastaar, Annihilus, Vision, Iron Fist, Baron Zemo, MACH-IV, Songbird, Atlas, Moonstone, Jolt, Todd Martin, Thing, Red Skull, Brother Voodoo, Shang-Chi, Luke Cage, Heroes for Hire, Machinesmith, Multiple Man, Havok, Polaris, Iceman, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Angel, Professor X, Superia, Doctor Minerva, Nick Fury, MODAM, War Machine, Animus, Tyrr, Jarr, War Machines, Sons of the Serpent, Black Panther, Moondragon, and the Phalanx).
I don't know how you got that out of what I said. I never said anything about Strange fighting Shuma, only that he displayed great dimensional transport. Like in many other feats.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because Astral Forms work differently than physical forms. Classic Psylock could travel to other dimensions via Astral Form, it doesn’t mean that she could make the trip on foot.
Yes but Strange has actually made the trip on foot before. So it doesn't matter much.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And when has Strange done it with his physical body without prep?
Traveling to every dimension from here to Shuma-Gorath's? But I have prep for my BFR so it wouldn't matter anyway.


Originally posted by darthgoober
So you find leaving the Realm of Unreality to be equivalent to escaping the Soul Gem… Cool than it means that Surfer can do it.
No dude, you totally missed my point. My POINT is that yeah, Dr. Strange ended up escaping, but he had to FIGHT AN ABSTRACT to do so! And he only won because, as Sorcerer Supreme, he can become immune to Death! Surfer cannot use the same method, and thus there is no method available to him.


Originally posted by darthgoober
Doesn’t matter since you just admitted that Surfer should be able to escape since he escaped the Soul World. Also, I thought you said Strange COULDN”T escape…
Strange couldn't escape by dimensional transport. He COULD escape by going through Death's gates, and guess what happens when you do that? YOU DIE! Plus, it took him days to find Death's Gates since you can't go from point a to point b in Unreality.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It doesn’t matter if you’re soul’s still active, the rules clearly state that if you die you lose…
That's the point! I DON'T die when my body's destroyed!

Originally posted by darthgoober
No this time he’s supposed to be fighting someone who’s a LOT more powerful than Dracula while he’s doing it.
You're placing a curse that inhibits magic on my body?

The Time limit: Dr. Strange lasted days while trying to get his body back from Dracula.

Just a reminder that this match is a 24 hour match. I believe Badabing unlocked this thread at roughly 5:30PM CST, so the end time for today would be 5:30 PM CST which is exactly 4 hours and 30 minutes from now.

Please all voters and super-voters, have your vote in by that time. It's especially important that super-voters get their votes in.

-Evangel94

Originally posted by King Kandy
Dude I thought you said no travel feats. Well I will dig up some scans if i've got time. Those aren’t travel feats. I mean don’t get me wrong yeah Surfer traveled in them but that’s only part of it. Searching the entire planet shows unreal mental speed, attacking all those city’s in seconds is basically a world wide speed blitz, and the last two speak for themselves.


Originally posted by King Kandy
Not really. Surfer thinks ultra-quick. Zoom thinks faster. Surfer's astral projection lasts "only a moment" to someone who can react in microseconds! That's pretty short!
Again I think you’re reading to much into the figurative language of the scan if you honestly think that the Surfer can only astral project for a moment, but I’m content to let the judges make that call. Especially since the Silver Adaptoid also has the training/focus/concentration of Iron Fist, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Druid, Brother Voodoo, Mar-Vell, and the Black Knight to draw from as well.

Also, again what makes you think Zoom thinks faster than Surfer? You haven’t posted a single scan or feat to that effect so what are you basing your argument on?


Originally posted by King Kandy
Yes, because CLEARLY the fact that i'm in astral form, am using spells against you, and am wearing that lets me cast astral spells i'm not going to be prepared.
I meant things like force fields (which you NEVER raised during prep because you thought I’d be able to attack) and other combat enhancing spells that might prevent your getting one shotted by the Silver Adaptoid.


Originally posted by King Kandy
But nothing quantifiable? What's Reed's greatest feat of tech precision?
EVERYTHING Reed builds is ultra precise, and this time his brain is working with Cosmic Awareness, the mystic senses of the characters I copied, and the mental processing speed of the Surfer…

And don't forget, I already showed a scan of the Surfer's Power Cosmic being used to set up a time release effect WITHOUT all those things working for me.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yes but Strange has actually made the trip on foot before. So it doesn't matter much.
When? I didn’t say that he never did it without astral projection, I asked WHEN he did it.


Originally posted by King Kandy
Traveling to every dimension from here to Shuma-Gorath's? But I have prep for my BFR so it wouldn't matter anyway.
No left the 616 multiverse(as Sufer did during the Uni-Lord Saga)…


Originally posted by King Kandy
No dude, you totally missed my point. My POINT is that yeah, Dr. Strange ended up escaping, but he had to FIGHT AN ABSTRACT to do so! And he only won because, as Sorcerer Supreme, he can become immune to Death! Surfer cannot use the same method, and thus there is no method available to him.
Strange pretty much “willed” himself back to the real world, and that was necessary was his confronting Death. Once I make it back to the real world it doesn’t matter if Death follows me the way she did Strange because I can teleport back to the battlefield pretty much instantly and the force field surrounding our match will keep her out until the match is over(since it’s completely indestructible and other beings can’t penetrate it). Whether or not she tracks me down later and kills me is irrelevant because you’re already going to be dead and I will have already won.



Originally posted by King Kandy
Strange couldn't escape by dimensional transport. He COULD escape by going through Death's gates, and guess what happens when you do that? YOU DIE! Plus, it took him days to find Death's Gates since you can't go from point a to point b in Unreality.
You die if Death kills you, if you confront Death and choose to you go back to the real world…


Originally posted by King Kandy
That's the point! I DON'T die when my body's destroyed!
Your body does. You’re trying to latch onto a loophole but it’s not going to work. Dead is dead and if your body’s destroyed you lose(as the tourney rules clearly say).

Hey I just thought of something, at the beginning of your prep you dumped your body into a “random dimension”(your words, not mine) and other dimensions are OFTEN hostile to the unwary(such as your unguarded body). What makes you think you body will survive in a RANDOM dimension for over an hour when you took no special precautions to protect it?


Originally posted by King Kandy
You're placing a curse that inhibits magic on my body?
No I’m blasting the shit out of your astral form.



Things to keep in mind.

1. Kandy’s overall strategy doesn’t make sense. He doesn’t know anything about the Silver Adaptoid other than his name and that he’s a power copier with access to the Power Cosmic, but for some reason we’re supposed to believe that he’s going to go through this massive plan that involves abandoning his unguarded body to some random dimension for the duration of the match. Then even though Kandy’s character is unaware of whether or not I’m even a villain or hero, we’re supposed to believe that Kandy’s character is going to BFR my character to pretty much the worst place you can send someone to. When has Strange EVER shown it to be in character for him to actually TRY to kill someone before he even discovers whether or not they’re a hero? I could picture him trying to send me to any number of places, but starting off by sending me to confront Death itself goes against Strange’s character(and Strange is Kandy’s mind).

2. Kandy’s strategy doesn’t guarantee a win. First the “tentacles have to grab me(not easy with Surfer’s speed and my force field raised) and pull me in, and until they do I’ll be able to attack Kandy’s astral form with the Power Cosmic and all the mystical abilities(and hex bolts) I have at my disposal. Strange was caught off guard and was at close range when he was pulled into the Realm of Unreality but the Silver Adaptoid isn't suffering from those drawbacks. I can make the match simple as Hell by simply staying out of range of the tentacles while I unload on Kandy’s guy. If they’re successful., the Silver Adaptoid has more than enough speed and power at his disposal to get out of the Realm of Unreality in record time and continue my assault.

First of all, I want to vary clear that I deem King Kandy gains the speed boost. Its basically Zoom, gaining Dr. Strange mystic knowledge. And no I don’t believe speed is the natural enemy to magic. The only spells that do not gain the speed boost are rituals, and summons. I don’t feel like going technical as to why, but I think some of you are starting to get an idea.


And know I have to place a vote that is going to piss off some members. My vote goes to Darth Goober.

Two reasons or two scenarios.

1) I over looked this, or it didn’t cross my mind. But Professor Strange, retains Zooms mind and his memories. Yes he can pull off any spell, that is not item dependent. However knowledge of the items, and where they are located are not available or no explanation was given as to how they would be obtained. Basically the prep, and strategy is item heavy and with out it. Well KK cant cast spells, while in astral form.

2) Disregarding the above, and say he has the items for arguments sake. He is in the race against the clock, since he BFR himself and is projecting himself. However he attempts to BFR Goob, by what seems to be in inescapable dimension. Goob makes a case, that SS escaped the Soul World…yet I see him holding the gem when he does so. And KK makes a case, that Strange escaped only because he went through the Gates of Hell, besting Death. The problem I see, is that Death was attempting to claim Strange due to his demise.

The situation is not the same for either, KK can successfully BFR Goob. But he is BFR’ed to a deaths realm alive. Death has no reason to lay claim over SA, and SA would apply his power of cosmic to escape.

Upon returning the battle would continue, but you cant harm KK as astral projection. Or at least no evidence was shown SS being capable off. Forms of projection, and/or forms of intangibility are not intangible. A sword that is meant to harm the soul, will do little to an astral projection unless its stated or shown to do so. This is due to the nature, or mechanics behind the various incorporeal projection.

However, KK did not really give me enough to go as to how he would damage Goob. And lets be real, Goob has much to answer, with suffice speed to combat an item ready KK. Most likely the time would be up, before either pull out a killing blow.

Originally posted by id369
First of all, I want to vary clear that I deem King Kandy gains the speed boost. Its basically Zoom, gaining Dr. Strange mystic knowledge. And no I don’t believe speed is the natural enemy to magic. The only spells that do not gain the speed boost are rituals, and summons. I don’t feel like going technical as to why, but I think some of you are starting to get an idea.


And know I have to place a vote that is going to piss off some members. My vote goes to Darth Goober.

Two reasons or two scenarios.

1) I over looked this, or it didn’t cross my mind. But Professor Strange, retains Zooms mind and his memories. Yes he can pull off any spell, that is not item dependent. However knowledge of the items, and where they are located are not available or no explanation was given as to how they would be obtained. Basically the prep, and strategy is item heavy and with out it. Well KK cant cast spells, while in astral form.

2) Disregarding the above, and say he has the items for arguments sake. He is in the race against the clock, since he BFR himself and is projecting himself. However he attempts to BFR Goob, by what seems to be in inescapable dimension. Goob makes a case, that SS escaped the Soul World…yet I see him holding the gem when he does so. And KK makes a case, that Strange escaped only because he went through the Gates of Hell, besting Death. The problem I see, is that Death was attempting to claim Strange due to his demise.

The situation is not the same for either, KK can successfully BFR Goob. But he is BFR’ed to a deaths realm alive. Death has no reason to lay claim over SA, and SA would apply his power of cosmic to escape.

Upon returning the battle would continue, but you cant harm KK as astral projection. Or at least no evidence was shown SS being capable off. Forms of projection, and/or forms of intangibility are not intangible. A sword that is meant to harm the soul, will do little to an astral projection unless its stated or shown to do so. This is due to the nature, or mechanics behind the various incorporeal projection.

However, KK did not really give me enough to go as to how he would damage Goob. And lets be real, Goob has much to answer, with suffice speed to combat an item ready KK. Most likely the time would be up, before either pull out a killing blow.
Thanks for thve vote, but I'm curious as to why you think I'll be unable to damage KK? These scans clearly show Surfer's ability to take down astral forms...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2003.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2004.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2005.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2006.jpg

And that's aside from the mystic abilities I have from the Scarlet Witch, Dr. Druid and Brother Voodoo(remember the "assume the minimum" policy).

Also, in the scan where Surfer escapes the Soul World, the reason he's holding the gems is because he somehow grabs it off of the Supreme Intelligence when he escapes(the Supreme Intelligence was wearing the gem on his head at the time). Surfer wasn't actually wielding the gem while in the Soul World.

Also, people should take care not to underestimate the Hex Power of the Scarlet Witch. Even in it's classic days it was quite powerful, it's just that Wanda would tire quickly from it's use(but the Silver Adaptoid's energy reserves are FAR greater than Wanda's)

Here we see Wanda's Hex bolts working effectively against a group of spirits that are so powerful Wanda's strongest spell can't touch them...
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7546/vs0513nk2.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6215/vs0514la3.jpg

I know that the Hex Bolts seem to be a measly attack against someone like Strange, but just remember that EVERY time I tag him with one the odds that he'll make a mistake in his spellcasting and such increase more and more.

And when those tentacles grabbed Strange they grabbed his PHYSICAL form, it's not as if he were astrally projecting. I've yet to see anything to suggest that they can grab the Silver Adaptoid if I'm in astral form myself while I'm attacking Kandy. Kandy would actually have to seek out my body for his BFR tactic to work and he's not going to hae time while I'm tearing into him.

Voting for Goob.

The BFR from Kandy seems iffy at best and the posted evidence makes the SilverAdaptoid at least close to as fast as ProfStrange and superior in virtually every other way (excluding the ever important "Hef factor"

My votes for Goob. He provided a more substantiated offensive strategy and his character is versatile enough to counter Kandy's Astral Projection. Also Evangel's decision that Kandy would not be able to summon his demon horde didn't exactly help either (though Goob accounted for that as well).

Okay, there's some misunderstanding about the realm of unreality, and this is my own fault for not going into more detail. It is NOT Death's realm. Death's realm was simply the only exit from it. Now, Strange had to go through Death's gates first... but something I myself forgot was that the GATES WOULD NOT OPEN FOR ANYONE BUT STRANGE! There was an entire city of souls outside who wanted to die, but they wouldn't because Death didn't want them. Now, since I BFRed Surfer while he was alive, there's no reason those gates should open for him. So i'm not seeing how he could get to Death in the first place. This is why, imo, Id's opinion of why Strange would escape is in fact the opposite.

Other problems are: Strange always has an auto-shield (check the respect thread.) so saying I have no shields is wrong. The shield in fact resisted an attack from a being who was said to be able to "devastate planets."

Okay, Darth has shown NOTHING to prove Surfer can astral project for a significant time. He says he can do it "for but a moment." Darth has not even proven that is figurative, while I believe I have shown reasonable proof that a moment is not very long. And his latest ideas for harming me... well even he admits it is only speculation. I'll get the jump on him and BFR him before he can project.

Hmm...since I haven't heard from Mindset or Charlotte DeBel in this thread yet, I'll keep the voting period extended until the final supervoter casts their vote, or until the start of the next match on saturday. Whichever comes first. I know that Mindset and id369 at least got the latest PM asking him to cast his vote as soon as he could.

-Evangel94

Voting for Goob. He seemed to have Kandy on the ropes the entire time,\. I find most of Kandy's plan rather strained and contrived, and the sheer amount that he needs to prove viable works against him, even if Goob didn't have a number of overlooked methods of attack himself.

Sorry for the late vote- had to get up pretty early to do that- the disadvantage of living in Eastern Europe and miscounting timezones a bit.

So considering everything, I don't agree with a couple of points. First of all, where did you seen physical speedup being transferred to the astral form? It doesn't seem that believeable. Same with ability to cast various spells. That's lack of proper prep.

Goob's plan was farfetched in a couple of points and I don't really see either being able to damage each other. ProfStrange is most likely without spellcasting ability=basically basing his very thing on hideout, Goob hasn't shown anything really damageable for astral projections- as id369 said, there are a lot of them.The battle seems to be a stalemate.

But... Goob has presented a better explanation for his strategy so my vote goes to Darthgoober.

Just to be official we're still awaiting judgment from Mindset, and this thread is still open to those who want to and can vote.

Here's the current:

DarthGoober 9 votes
Creshosk Vote nulled because Evangel94 doesn't think he's an objective voter.
id369
Symmetric Chaos
illadelph12
Zeitgeist
Charlotte DeBel

King Kandy 0 votes

Originally posted by darthgoober
Thanks for thve vote, but I'm curious as to why you think I'll be unable to damage KK? These scans clearly show Surfer's ability to take down astral forms...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2003.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2004.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2005.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/InThyName2006.jpg

And that's aside from the mystic abilities I have from the Scarlet Witch, Dr. Druid and Brother Voodoo(remember the "assume the minimum" policy).

Also, in the scan where Surfer escapes the Soul World, the reason he's holding the gems is because he somehow grabs it off of the Supreme Intelligence when he escapes(the Supreme Intelligence was wearing the gem on his head at the time). Surfer wasn't actually wielding the gem while in the Soul World. IRRC, “In Thy Name” is not part of the 616 continuality, which is why I ignored it. Anyhow astral projection, is simply projecting oneself across a the planes. It retains none of the physical attributes, and most of the time you cant really do much in astral projection for the same reasons. At best, you could destroy the astral projection. But there is no reason why said character could not re-project himself if his body isn't harmed.

In short, an astral projection, is akin to say a movie projector. Only it retains vary little essence, enough to move around freely, and be aware of its surrounding.

I'm pretty sure that death on the astral plane is akin to a real death.

Originally posted by llagrok
I'm pretty sure that death on the astral plane is akin to a real death.
Well the problem is, they are not fighting in the astral plane. But yes if a match takes place in the astral plane, can end up in fatal results.

Originally posted by id369
Well the problem is, they are not fighting in the astral plane. But yes if a match takes place in the astral plane, can end up in fatal results.

Just needed that confirmed, thanks.

kandy shouldn't have gone astral, voting for darthgoober.

under normal condition i would have picked doctor strange over the silver surfer, but your prep weakened his total effectiveness.

strange at full power is respected by galactus, he doesn't really fear him but he recognizes he can give him a run for his money if he channels power from his many resources.

you should have focused on the vishanti and other powerful assets immediately available to the sorcerer supreme.

Originally posted by id369
IRRC, “In Thy Name” is not part of the 616 continuality, which is why I ignored it. Anyhow astral projection, is simply projecting oneself across a the planes. It retains none of the physical attributes, and most of the time you cant really do much in astral projection for the same reasons. At best, you could destroy the astral projection. But there is no reason why said character could not re-project himself if his body isn't harmed.

In short, an astral projection, is akin to say a movie projector. Only it retains vary little essence, enough to move around freely, and be aware of its surrounding.
When has Marvel said that In Thy Name isn't 616? I've been asking around KMC and everyone said that Marvel hasn't taken a specific stance on it, which is why I felt free to use the scan.

Also Kandy's not allowed to return to his body because he BFR'd it. If his astral form is destroyed Kandy loses.

Originally posted by darthgoober
When has Marvel said that In Thy Name isn't 616? I've been asking around KMC and everyone said that Marvel hasn't taken a specific stance on it, which is why I felt free to use the scan.

Also Kandy's not allowed to return to his body because he BFR'd it. If his astral form is destroyed Kandy loses.


Actually I remember reading an article, stating it does not fit within the 616 continuity. I'll look for it.

2 real quick things before I cast my vote, sorry it has taken so long, I've been realy busy.

What spells has Strange shown to be able to cast while in his astral form?

Is In Thy Name canon, and if not, what is the extent of SS astral form abilities?

Dr. Strange has a ring that the ancient one gave him that lets him cast all spells. But assuming he doesn't have it, he can cast all spells but can only use the cloak and eye as artifacts.

Well with the new match up, this match is over. Tallying results...

Originally posted by Evangel94
Well with the new match up, this match is over. Tallying results... taking you awhile to tally this match...must be a close one!

It's 10-0...

Supervoters
Charlotte DeBel: Votes in favor of Darthgoober
id369: Votes in favor of Darthgoober
Mindset: N/A -did not vote-

Regular Votes for Darthgoober: 3
Symmetric Chaos
illadelph12
Zeitgeist

Regular Votes for King Kandy: N/A

Darthgoober advances to the final match. And to King Kandy, Thank you for participating. I appreciate the hard work you've put into this tournament.

Final Thoughts on this Match: I think that King Kandy shot himself in the foot early on by separating himself from his body. Though I think BFR'ing himself is good tactic to avoid physical combat, it comes with a cost. Perhaps King Kandy would have had a better chance if he engaged Darthgoober first with his body, weakened Darthgoober's amalgam as much as possible, then as a last resort possibly use his partial BFR tactic to finish off Goober. The BFR tactic seems like a good finisher. I would have liked to see a little more specific spells from Dr. Strange. But who knows? I am only speculating here.

If anyone has any constructive commentary on how King Kandy or Darthgoober should have fought, feel free to politely post here.

Anyway, Thank you both for your hard work. It was a pleasure King Kandy.

-Evangel94

Sorry Evangel

Ah, we all know that you would have voted for Darth anyway.

Yea, I was.

Just scanned this thread and I'm curious. If there is an impenetrable forcefield/dome here...how was Darth supposed to be BFR'd out of it in the first place?

Seems like that strategy would have failed in the 1st place, considering that Kandy's physical body was out of reach.

It was explained by Evangel that you CAN leave through dimensional transport, but you are eliminated if you do.