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Please do not post in this thread before 4/24/08 @ 5:00PM Central Standard Time.


Voting is not allowed for the first 10 hours of the match. Please let the participants debate. Please refrain from making comments. However if you have an unbiased question that you need to ask that pertains to the actual match, you may do so. The match will be 24 hours long based on when this thread is unlocked. Any vote that doesn't have an explanation will be nullified. Those who have their voting privileges removed know who they are. I ask that they do not post in this thread.

Experience and memories from all previous matches fought are granted to all teams. With that in mind, your team should be more experienced and therefore arguably a better fighter, more motivated, more adept at using difficult or foreign equipment, etc.

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Darthgoober
Originally posted by darthgoober
The Silver Adaptoid(Amalgam Lv. 1= 4 pts)

Silver Surfer(Body)= 6 pts
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Silver_Surfer
Super Adaptoid(Mind)= 6 pts
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Super-Adaptoid

Power Copying= 8 pts
Prep Time Lv. 1(15 minutes on the battlefield)= 1 pt.

4+6+6+8+1= 25 pts.

vs

King Kandy

Originally posted by King Kandy
"Professor Strange"

Professor Zoom -6 points
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/zoom.html

Dr. Strange (current and classic)-6 points
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strange

Amalgam Level 1 - combination of two characters - 4 points

BFR (Battlefield Removal): Remove one foe from the field of battle (failure is possible based on plausibility of battle writeup; removed being can come back so long as he/she has the power to do so within 10 minutes) - 5 points

Prep Time level 2: : One(1) hour spent in either a mystic sanctum - 2 points

Knowledge of the opposition level 2: Names and powers provided, but not level of power -2 points

Total: 25 points

Area J


Super-voters will be used for this match along with regular voters. Their votes will count as three regular votes so long as they provide an adequate explanation for their votes. There will be three super-voters for this match. Despite any previous history with the participants, I ask that they should be objective, unbiased and judge the match as fairly as possible.

The three super-voters for this match are the following:
1. id369
2. Mindset
3. Charlotte Debel


This is a direct elimination match. If you lose, you are out of the tournament. If you win, you advance to the final match of the tournament. Good luck.

-Evangel94

Okay, just a short post. First off, Surfer has also displayed significantly lower energy absorbtion powers... he was once driven insane by absorbing a small fraction of the sun during Infinity Crusade. I'd like to see evidence that he was actually powered up in Annihilation as opposed to merely using his powers to their fullest capacity.

Okay, second is that since I have no physical body, his black hole bomb won't hurt me. Maybe it will hurt my demons but I also have thousands of illusions swarming him. His proposed method of attack just won't work. My BFR still works, he'll get sucked in all the same.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Question: If it's impossible to teleport in and out of the forcefield, how is BFR supposed to work?

Originally posted by Evangel94
Let me rephrase...

The forcefield prevents anyone from 'physically' leaving (including teleporters like nightcrawler who can teleport in and out, and in and out), and it prevents you from summoning help from other dimensions (summoning one of your comrades back from a BFR or summoning some giant super powerful monster to help).

However you can 'transport' or 'bfr' your opponents via magic, tech, or other means from the battlefield. So, Dr. Strange opening a dimensional rift via magic, Dr. Doom opening a portal via tech, or Darkseid using the Omega beams to remove one opponent from the battlefield is allowed.

All transported or bfr'd beings can return if they have the power to so. For example, Thor spinning his hammer and transporting himself back to the battlefield or Dr. Strange casting a spell to return.

However you cannot physically return to the battlefield. ie Superman flying really really fast back to the battlefield.

I hope I cleared it up.


-Evangel94

So you CAN leave the battlefield through dimensional travel and other means. You just get eliminated for doing it. But in my case i'm allowed to do so since Evangel took the view that it wasn't BFR if part of the character still remained inside (my astral form.)

I am going to post the PM's I received from King Kandy just so we're clear here.



In reply I wrote.



So basically King Kandy wants to partially BFR his body from the battlefield to avoid taking any physical damage. He is doing that by separating his soul/astral projection/consciousness/spirit from his body, and teleporting his body out of the match. Now once you remove your own body from the match you can't use it anymore for the duration of the match. The only thing left of Dr. Strange on the battlefield is an astral shell containing his spirit.

Now those who are familiar with astral projecting in marvel knows it comes at a certain cost: Your astral self must to return to your physical body within a certain amount of time depending on the user.

But since King Kandy dumped his body to a different dimension to completely avoid a physical battle, he now has no body to return to on the battlefield. King Kandy is basically on a time limit on how long he can last depending on Dr. Strange's endurance before his astral self is also forced to leave and return to his body which is off the battlefield and therefore complete the BFR and give darthgoober the win.

-----------------------------------------

For King Kandy to win: Since King Kandy can't be hurt physically, it all really boils down to if King Kandy can successfully and permanently BFR Silver Adaptoid from the battlefield before his astral form must leave and return to his body. And if King Kandy can BFR darthgoober's amalgam, can he also wait the wait the full 10 minutes to gain the win. King Kandy is going to have to argue about Dr. Strange's abilities in astral projection here since I am not exactly sure what spells Dr. Strange can cast while in astral form.

For Darthgoober to win: Since Darthgoober can't hurt King Kandy physically, it boils down to if Darthgoober can hurt King Kandy's astral/spirit form whether it be psychically, magically, or otherwise. Also, Darthgoober needs to argue if Silver Adaptoid can return to the battlefield despite King Kandy's BFR attempt and outlast King Kandy astral form time limit to get the win, or if he can avoid getting BFR'd altogether.

King Kandy traded his physical body for complete physical protection on a time limit. Was this a good or bad idea? Who knows. This is up for the supervoters and voters to decide.

-Evangel94

The BFR rule has been clarified and re-written a couple of times. As of now, it's a physically impenetrable spherical forcefield with a diameter of 10 miles. If your own character teleports their entire self out of the battlefield (even someone like nightcrawler) then its considered self-bfr and they cannot return. If you remove your enemy from the battlefield via teleporting, transporting via a spell or tech, or throwing them through a dimentional portal into another dimension, they have 10 minutes to return or they are disqualified. The enemy BFR character cannot physically return to the battlefield (no flying at mega speed from wherever they were sent to back to the battlefield). Characters on the battlefield cannot summon help (ala hordes of hell to do your bidding or teleporting in a robotic army) or summon BFR'd characters back.

In King Kandy's case, he partially BFR'd himself from the battlefield, but left his astral/soul essence of the battlefield. His body can no longer be used in the battle, but can still fight in his astral form. However, his astral form has a time limit, and must eventually return to his body. If he can win in astral form before he must return is another matter entirely.

-Evangel94

I know my vote doewsn't count for anything but I'm voting for DarthGoober.

I still don't buy the whole "increaseing speed decreases casting time" non-sense. Goober has been shown to be able to both return from other dimensions and attack astral forms.

Also question wouldn't BFRing the body also get rid of the

Professor Zoom -6 points
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/zoom.html

Aspect of the amalgam? Because I don't recall seeing flash styles of speed increasing the speed of astral projections...

Also I noticed with this:
"Characters on the battlefield cannot summon help (ala hordes of hell to do your bidding or teleporting in a robotic army) "

It'd just be Professor Strange and not the demon army he was talking about.

That timelimit's also going to be a pain for Kandy, so he's really looking crippled here and the SIlver Adaptoid looks... not as hindered...

So that's why I'm voting for Goober with my worthless vote.

First match post was 4:35 PM my time. +10 hours would be 2:35 AM my time. its now 7:59 AM my time.

The Time limit: Dr. Strange lasted days while trying to get his body back from Dracula.

Just a reminder that this match is a 24 hour match. I believe Badabing unlocked this thread at roughly 5:30PM CST, so the end time for today would be 5:30 PM CST which is exactly 4 hours and 30 minutes from now.

Please all voters and super-voters, have your vote in by that time. It's especially important that super-voters get their votes in.

-Evangel94

Also, people should take care not to underestimate the Hex Power of the Scarlet Witch. Even in it's classic days it was quite powerful, it's just that Wanda would tire quickly from it's use(but the Silver Adaptoid's energy reserves are FAR greater than Wanda's)

Here we see Wanda's Hex bolts working effectively against a group of spirits that are so powerful Wanda's strongest spell can't touch them...
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7546/vs0513nk2.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6215/vs0514la3.jpg

I know that the Hex Bolts seem to be a measly attack against someone like Strange, but just remember that EVERY time I tag him with one the odds that he'll make a mistake in his spellcasting and such increase more and more.

And when those tentacles grabbed Strange they grabbed his PHYSICAL form, it's not as if he were astrally projecting. I've yet to see anything to suggest that they can grab the Silver Adaptoid if I'm in astral form myself while I'm attacking Kandy. Kandy would actually have to seek out my body for his BFR tactic to work and he's not going to hae time while I'm tearing into him.

Voting for Goob.

The BFR from Kandy seems iffy at best and the posted evidence makes the SilverAdaptoid at least close to as fast as ProfStrange and superior in virtually every other way (excluding the ever important "Hef factor"

My votes for Goob. He provided a more substantiated offensive strategy and his character is versatile enough to counter Kandy's Astral Projection. Also Evangel's decision that Kandy would not be able to summon his demon horde didn't exactly help either (though Goob accounted for that as well).

Okay, there's some misunderstanding about the realm of unreality, and this is my own fault for not going into more detail. It is NOT Death's realm. Death's realm was simply the only exit from it. Now, Strange had to go through Death's gates first... but something I myself forgot was that the GATES WOULD NOT OPEN FOR ANYONE BUT STRANGE! There was an entire city of souls outside who wanted to die, but they wouldn't because Death didn't want them. Now, since I BFRed Surfer while he was alive, there's no reason those gates should open for him. So i'm not seeing how he could get to Death in the first place. This is why, imo, Id's opinion of why Strange would escape is in fact the opposite.

Other problems are: Strange always has an auto-shield (check the respect thread.) so saying I have no shields is wrong. The shield in fact resisted an attack from a being who was said to be able to "devastate planets."

Okay, Darth has shown NOTHING to prove Surfer can astral project for a significant time. He says he can do it "for but a moment." Darth has not even proven that is figurative, while I believe I have shown reasonable proof that a moment is not very long. And his latest ideas for harming me... well even he admits it is only speculation. I'll get the jump on him and BFR him before he can project.

Hmm...since I haven't heard from Mindset or Charlotte DeBel in this thread yet, I'll keep the voting period extended until the final supervoter casts their vote, or until the start of the next match on saturday. Whichever comes first. I know that Mindset and id369 at least got the latest PM asking him to cast his vote as soon as he could.

-Evangel94

Voting for Goob. He seemed to have Kandy on the ropes the entire time,\. I find most of Kandy's plan rather strained and contrived, and the sheer amount that he needs to prove viable works against him, even if Goob didn't have a number of overlooked methods of attack himself.

Sorry for the late vote- had to get up pretty early to do that- the disadvantage of living in Eastern Europe and miscounting timezones a bit.

So considering everything, I don't agree with a couple of points. First of all, where did you seen physical speedup being transferred to the astral form? It doesn't seem that believeable. Same with ability to cast various spells. That's lack of proper prep.

Goob's plan was farfetched in a couple of points and I don't really see either being able to damage each other. ProfStrange is most likely without spellcasting ability=basically basing his very thing on hideout, Goob hasn't shown anything really damageable for astral projections- as id369 said, there are a lot of them.The battle seems to be a stalemate.

But... Goob has presented a better explanation for his strategy so my vote goes to Darthgoober.

Just to be official we're still awaiting judgment from Mindset, and this thread is still open to those who want to and can vote.

Here's the current:

DarthGoober 9 votes
Creshosk Vote nulled because Evangel94 doesn't think he's an objective voter.
id369
Symmetric Chaos
illadelph12
Zeitgeist
Charlotte DeBel

King Kandy 0 votes

I'm pretty sure that death on the astral plane is akin to a real death.

Originally posted by llagrok
I'm pretty sure that death on the astral plane is akin to a real death.
Well the problem is, they are not fighting in the astral plane. But yes if a match takes place in the astral plane, can end up in fatal results.

Originally posted by id369
Well the problem is, they are not fighting in the astral plane. But yes if a match takes place in the astral plane, can end up in fatal results.

Just needed that confirmed, thanks.

kandy shouldn't have gone astral, voting for darthgoober.

under normal condition i would have picked doctor strange over the silver surfer, but your prep weakened his total effectiveness.

strange at full power is respected by galactus, he doesn't really fear him but he recognizes he can give him a run for his money if he channels power from his many resources.

you should have focused on the vishanti and other powerful assets immediately available to the sorcerer supreme.

Originally posted by darthgoober
When has Marvel said that In Thy Name isn't 616? I've been asking around KMC and everyone said that Marvel hasn't taken a specific stance on it, which is why I felt free to use the scan.

Also Kandy's not allowed to return to his body because he BFR'd it. If his astral form is destroyed Kandy loses.


Actually I remember reading an article, stating it does not fit within the 616 continuity. I'll look for it.

2 real quick things before I cast my vote, sorry it has taken so long, I've been realy busy.

What spells has Strange shown to be able to cast while in his astral form?

Is In Thy Name canon, and if not, what is the extent of SS astral form abilities?

Dr. Strange has a ring that the ancient one gave him that lets him cast all spells. But assuming he doesn't have it, he can cast all spells but can only use the cloak and eye as artifacts.

Well with the new match up, this match is over. Tallying results...

Originally posted by Evangel94
Well with the new match up, this match is over. Tallying results... taking you awhile to tally this match...must be a close one!

It's 10-0...

Supervoters
Charlotte DeBel: Votes in favor of Darthgoober
id369: Votes in favor of Darthgoober
Mindset: N/A -did not vote-

Regular Votes for Darthgoober: 3
Symmetric Chaos
illadelph12
Zeitgeist

Regular Votes for King Kandy: N/A

Darthgoober advances to the final match. And to King Kandy, Thank you for participating. I appreciate the hard work you've put into this tournament.

Final Thoughts on this Match: I think that King Kandy shot himself in the foot early on by separating himself from his body. Though I think BFR'ing himself is good tactic to avoid physical combat, it comes with a cost. Perhaps King Kandy would have had a better chance if he engaged Darthgoober first with his body, weakened Darthgoober's amalgam as much as possible, then as a last resort possibly use his partial BFR tactic to finish off Goober. The BFR tactic seems like a good finisher. I would have liked to see a little more specific spells from Dr. Strange. But who knows? I am only speculating here.

If anyone has any constructive commentary on how King Kandy or Darthgoober should have fought, feel free to politely post here.

Anyway, Thank you both for your hard work. It was a pleasure King Kandy.

-Evangel94

Sorry Evangel

Ah, we all know that you would have voted for Darth anyway.

Yea, I was.

Just scanned this thread and I'm curious. If there is an impenetrable forcefield/dome here...how was Darth supposed to be BFR'd out of it in the first place?

Seems like that strategy would have failed in the 1st place, considering that Kandy's physical body was out of reach.

It was explained by Evangel that you CAN leave through dimensional transport, but you are eliminated if you do.