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Is there a fundamental difference with the editorial retcon of the DC Lord of Destruction ?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=444217&pagenumber=68

Maybe the mods should just open that one?

Originally posted by Troop
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=444217&pagenumber=68

Maybe the mods should just open that one? Wow,that link is when I first started posting here. It was a long time ago.

Darkseid loses.

Originally posted by I love DC
Darkseid loses.

I see a bit of hyprocrisy in that user name..........

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I see a bit of hyprocrisy in that user name..........

haha good observation

If this were to be the pre-crisis Darkseid, then Darseid would rape thanos and make him his slave.

But if this is current Darkseid, Thanos would rape and make Darkseid his slave.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I see a bit of hyprocrisy in that user name..........

Maybe he loves DC so much, he doesn't want to overrate them......

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I see a bit of hyprocrisy in that user name..........
Not really.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I see a bit of hyprocrisy in that user name..........
Why? Because he's willing to give characters from his preferred company a loss when he feels they are outclassed?

Pc darkseid wins.
post crisis can suck my dick.

I would beat myself post crisis DS.

Thanos 4tw

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I see a bit of hyprocrisy in that user name..........

I wonder who's sock he is.

I think Darkseid is stronger and more physical durable than Thanos (Thanos is probably more energy durable).
Plus Thanos can't beat that OE.

Originally posted by h1a8
I think Darkseid is stronger and more physical durable than Thanos (Thanos is probably more energy durable).
Plus Thanos can't beat that OE. Prove Darkseid is stronger. If you really think he is more durable then you are wrong. Darkseid has been beaten down physically by Superman and Doomsday.


Who has beaten Thanos physically in a fair fight?

The oe has been deflected before by heat vision.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove Darkseid is stronger. If you really think he is more durable then you are wrong. Darkseid has been beaten down physically by Superman and Doomsday.


Who has beaten Thanos physically in a fair fight?

The oe has been deflected before by heat vision.

Prove Superman and Doomsday wouldn't beat down Thanos.

.

Originally posted by Soljer
Prove Superman and Doomsday wouldn't beat down Thanos.

. As if you dont know my viewpoints on this of all subjects.


Thanos took a pounding from Thor with the power gem who was slaughtering a team of characters some of which could singlehandedly beat Supes.


Thanos took a helluva lot from Odin who is more powerful than Doomsday. Thanos has never been beaten in a fair fight physically on panel. Darkseid has been pounded twice on panel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
As if you dont know my viewpoints on this of all subjects.


Thanos took a pounding from Thor with the power gem who was slaughtering a team of characters some of which could singlehandedly beat Supes.


Thanos took a helluva lot from Odin who is more powerful than Doomsday. Thanos has never been beaten in a fair fight physically on panel. Darkseid has been pounded twice on panel.

Prove that Superman couldn't have easily solo'd that team.

Prove that Doomsday wouldn't stomp Odin hand to hand.

Originally posted by Soljer
Prove that Superman couldn't have easily solo'd that team.

Prove that Doomsday wouldn't stomp Odin hand to hand.

No need of proof when you use your logical.

Ds get his ass owned by Sups.
Thanos pummel Surfer to death with his hands.

That just says Superman is on level with DS while Surfer isn't on level with Thanos.

How does losing to Supes erase all his past feats?

Thor lost to Superman and people still argue fiercely for him...

Yet, anyone who loses to Superman from DC automatically becomes weak in the vs forums?

Get that crap outta here.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
No need of proof when you use your logical.

Ds get his ass owned by Sups.
Thanos pummel Surfer to death with his hands.

Prove that Superman couldn't pummel the Surfer to death bare-handed.

Originally posted by Soljer
Prove that Superman couldn't pummel the Surfer to death bare-handed.

There would never be proof provided because everything thinks
Surfer wins automatically via Kryponite blast or some shit!

Apparently, it would never reach bare-hands because Supes would
be dead as soon as the fight begins.

Originally posted by Soljer
Prove that Superman couldn't have easily solo'd that team.

Prove that Doomsday wouldn't stomp Odin hand to hand. Because the Surfer could exploit his weaknesses. Drax and Maxam could give him more than a match. Strange could solo Supes as he is magic incarnate and while Supes has a weakness for it as well.


Doomsday couldnt beat Odin hand to hand as Odin has never been beaten by someone on his level. Odin thus hasnt been beaten up by a top tier. Doomsday beat the crap out of Darkseid and so did Supes. Batman also made him bleed. Orion just recently tore his heart out in a fight. The point is Darkseid has been beaten up a lot lately while you cant name someone who beat Odins ass, let alone someone at Supermans power level.

Originally posted by Avlon
That just says Superman is on level with DS while Surfer isn't on level with Thanos.

How does losing to Supes erase all his past feats?

Thor lost to Superman and people still argue fiercely for him...

Yet, anyone who loses to Superman from DC automatically becomes weak in the vs forums?

Get that crap outta here. They dont erase his past feats but it does cause us(the readers) to take notice how things have changed with the writers and the way they perceive things.

Thor lost to Superman but they are both very close so it doesnt hurt Thors case as they are very comparable. Darkseid was previously untouchable in terms of top tiers say 20 years ago. Nowadays that isnt so. So taking into account everything. He has pathetic showings when you compare his losses to Thanos'. Not only that but the manner in which he lost or failed to dominate Supes changed a lot of peoples minds as they are comparable today but twenty years ago they werent.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
There would never be proof provided because everything thinks
Surfer wins automatically via Kryponite blast or some shit!

Apparently, it would never reach bare-hands because Supes would
be dead as soon as the fight begins. If the fight got up close and personal Supes would beat his head in. He would beat his head in provided tha the Surfer didnt do enough damage to him and that it more or less became a slugfest. I dont think it would be over in twenty seconds but it would end in favor of the Surfer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There is no precrisis Darkseid. Whatever, current Jobberseid is a 'tard now and cant take the majority over superman. Thanos Ftw

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I see a bit of hyprocrisy in that user name.......... So what you are saying is i should give my favorite characters the win just because.

Originally posted by quanchi112

Doomsday couldnt beat Odin hand to hand as Odin has never been beaten by someone on his level. Odin thus hasnt been beaten up by a top tier. Doomsday beat the crap out of Darkseid and so did Supes. Batman also made him bleed. Orion just recently tore his heart out in a fight. The point is Darkseid has been beaten up a lot lately while you cant name someone who beat Odins ass, let alone someone at Supermans power level.

Prove that Superman wouldn't stomp Thanos, that Orion wouldn't rip him in half, and that Batman couldn't make him bleed.

Why are you asking for proof of such stupid things? You can't prove a negative.

Originally posted by Soljer
Prove that Superman wouldn't stomp Thanos, that Orion wouldn't rip him in half, and that Batman couldn't make him bleed. Havent I proven enough. You yourself know that Thanos would beat Superman let alone Orion.

Superman and Thor fought while Supes barely edged him out. Thanos has never even flinched to Thor outside the huge powerup he had and even then Thor couldnt ko him.

Thanos has greater durability than Supes. Thanos has never been abused like when Cyborg beat him quite easily in Sinestro Corps. That would not have happened to Thanos mainly because hes fought more powerful characters and lasted longer,ex: Tyrant and Odin.

Street level humans dont make Thanos bleed.

Originally posted by Soljer
Prove that Superman wouldn't stomp Thanos, that Orion wouldn't rip him in half, and that Batman couldn't make him bleed.

It could happen, unless it's written by Starlin...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove Darkseid is stronger.
Him rivaling Superman's strength is enough to prove he's stronger.
I said physical durability (not energy projection resistance). Thanos would get damaged more than DS was if he took the same blows from Superman or Doomsday. All Thanos can take is energy blasts.


Doesn't matter as I said DS was stronger and more physical durable.


Thanos isn't made out of HV. His a$$ is good as erased if he gets hit.

quote:

Who has beaten Thanos physically in a fair fight?


Doesn't matter as I said DS was stronger and more physical durable.









Darkseid is neither Stronger nor Physically more durable than Thanos!

Thanos has taken Bludgeoning force from Thor w/ Warrior's Madness & the Power Gem (which would imply that he wasn't holding back) and found it exhilarating.

He has also fought both Thing & Thor at the same time, and on a separate occasion battled Hulk & Drax at the same. Which is a STRENGTH feat that Darkseid certainly can't match, based on his display against Doomsday.

Originally posted by h1a8
Him rivaling Superman's strength is enough to prove he's stronger.
I said physical durability (not energy projection resistance). Thanos would get damaged more than DS was if he took the same blows from Superman or Doomsday. All Thanos can take is energy blasts.I'd say Thanos rivals Superman in strength as well. Thanos stood up to a beatdown of punches and Mjolnir shots from a Warrior Madness Thor w/ Power Gem. He smiled and his lips were bleeding. Granted, he made use of his forcefields, some of which shattered in the fight, but considering this is Thanos vs Darkseid and not Thanos (w/o his usual forcefields) vs. Darkseid, it's kind of a moot point. Thanos' high feats include physical durability.
Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter as I said DS was stronger and more physical durable.I think it's reasonable to state that it's not exactly clear who is stronger and who is more durable. Although, Thanos appears to have more impressive physical durability feats. Even when you compare their low feats side-by-sde, Wolverine stab still looks better then Batman blood-drawing kick.
Originally posted by h1a8
Thanos isn't made out of HV. His a$$ is good as erased if he gets hit. Thanos is a "unique" being in the Marvel Universe. He is an anomaly like Adam Warlock. I think it's reasonable to assume that it's hard to say whether or not the OE would work on him. Since OE doesn't work on beings that the Source deems "fundamental" to the universe. Add to that, Darkseid's OE didn't even work on Wonder Woman's bracelets or on Doomsday...

thanos rips his heart outnone

Originally posted by h1a8
Him rivaling Superman's strength is enough to prove he's stronger.
I said physical durability (not energy projection resistance). Thanos would get damaged more than DS was if he took the same blows from Superman or Doomsday. All Thanos can take is energy blasts.


Doesn't matter as I said DS was stronger and more physical durable.


Thanos isn't made out of HV. His a$$ is good as erased if he gets hit. This proves you have no knowledge of the character. Thanos can take a pounding. Did you ever read his fight against his doppleganger and the punishment he took there? Thor was pounding on him physically with his hammer in the blood and thunder arc also. He was energy blasting away at him.

Darkseid is the one who goes down to punches. As I said he was physically mauled in 10 seconds from Doomsday. In Apokolips now he was beaten to the point of submission by Supes fists. In countdown three Supes was knocking him all around. In countdown 4 Orion tore his heart out.

Darkseids beams have been deflected by Mary Marvel,WW bracelets, and deflected by heat vision.

They have never taken out anyone as powerful as Thanos before so you dont have a point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Havent I proven enough. You yourself know that Thanos would beat Superman let alone Orion.

Superman and Thor fought while Supes barely edged him out. Thanos has never even flinched to Thor outside the huge powerup he had and even then Thor couldnt ko him.

Thanos has greater durability than Supes. Thanos has never been abused like when Cyborg beat him quite easily in Sinestro Corps. That would not have happened to Thanos mainly because hes fought more powerful characters and lasted longer,ex: Tyrant and Odin.

Street level humans dont make Thanos bleed.

Prove that Cyborg wouldn't demolish Thanos just as easily.

Never beaten anyone as powerful as Thanos? How about Infinity Man?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Never beaten anyone as powerful as Thanos? How about Infinity Man? Infinity Man isnt as powerful as Thanos.

Originally posted by Soljer
Prove that Cyborg wouldn't demolish Thanos just as easily. Because Thanos doesnt get demolished physically while Superman does on occasion. Cyborg was dealt with and lost his advantage on Superman. Superman was also knocked senseless by a Kalibak punch. From what I saw with what Cyborg did and what Thor with the power gem did Cyborg couldnt even make his nose bleed. Thor had much more impressive feats than beating one top tier senseless. The power gem amps someone exponentially more than say a bunch of sinestro rings.

Originally posted by Soljer
Prove that Cyborg wouldn't demolish Thanos just as easily.
prove your not trying to bait qaunchi 131fist

Originally posted by quanchi112
Infinity Man isnt as powerful as Thanos.

Prove it, schmuck.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Prove it, schmuck. Infinity Man never displayed dominance over darkseid who isnt in Thanos' league. If he cant beat Darkseid he has no chance of beating Thanos whatsoever.

Even as the Source's agent he was run off by Gog.

Prove it.

I wanted to join in.

Originally posted by Nihilist
prove your not trying to bait qaunchi 131fist

I...

Can't. .

Originally posted by quanchi112
Infinity Man never displayed dominance over darkseid who isnt in Thanos' league. If he cant beat Darkseid he has no chance of beating Thanos whatsoever.

Even as the Source's agent he was run off by Gog.

EXTREMELY BIASED ANSWER ALERT! So you refuse to even consider the possibility, that maybe, just maybe, Darkseid isn't weak, but he's up against powerful opposition? Or that someone could conceivably be stronger than Thanos?

And Gog? How is that a low showing? Especially if this is Kingdom Gog. Gog would rape Thanos.

Is Gog in JSA Kingdom Gog or as strong as him?

Originally posted by Mindset
Is Gog in JSA Kingdom Gog or as strong as him?

At this point, no. but this Gog is a herald for the 'true' gog. Besides, he soloed the JSA, something I don't see Thanos doing.

Lately, I've started visiting herochat more often and realized that Quanchi isn't really that bad. The level of stupidity on that board is astonishing.

Seriously now, this has gone beyond the point where it's just a simple insult. It's pretty much sharing something very obvious.

For example, here are a few threads just from first page. The thread title also shows stupidity but reading the replies really is entertaining

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170690.0.html

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170731.0.html

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170687.0.html

I think I'll join lol.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Lately, I've started visiting herochat more often and realized that Quanchi isn't really that bad. The level of stupidity on that board is astonishing.

Seriously now, this has gone beyond the point where it's just a simple insult. It's pretty much sharing something very obvious.

For example, here are a few threads just from first page. The thread title also shows stupidity but reading the replies really is entertaining

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170690.0.html

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170731.0.html

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170687.0.html

Heh, I recommend it to anyone in need of a laugh. .

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,169673.0.html

What idiots. Superman with the ring stomps him.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Lately, I've started visiting herochat more often and realized that Quanchi isn't really that bad. The level of stupidity on that board is astonishing.

Seriously now, this has gone beyond the point where it's just a simple insult. It's pretty much sharing something very obvious.

For example, here are a few threads just from first page. The thread title also shows stupidity but reading the replies really is entertaining

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170690.0.html

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170731.0.html

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170687.0.html

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,169673.msg2765108.html#new

Check out the newest post.

I love Badabing.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
At this point, no. but this Gog is a herald for the 'true' gog. Besides, he soloed the JSA, something I don't see Thanos doing.

Which member of the JSA makes you think he would've problems with them? The glorified brick that is KC Superman?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid is the one who goes down to punches. As I said he was physically mauled in 10 seconds from Doomsday. In Apokolips now he was beaten to the point of submission by Supes fists. In countdown three Supes was knocking him all around. In countdown 4 Orion tore his heart out.

Darkseids beams have been deflected by Mary Marvel,WW bracelets, and deflected by heat vision.

They have never taken out anyone as powerful as Thanos before so you dont have a point. To be fair, Drax ripped out Thanos' heart as well. Kinda funny that both characters went out the same way.

When did Mary Marvel defelct his OE? I've read Countdown and I don't remember that happening. What were the circumstances? And in my opinion, Superman's heat vision was an extension of him and, as such, was imbued with the same protection by the Source. It's the only way that feat really makes sense.

I think the OE is a bit underrated, only because it has had spectacular failings when it is supposedly the most destructive force in DC. Any Darkseid fans know the best feat of the OE? And not the whole 1/5th Cosmic Odyssey thing. Too circumstantial to be a gauge in my view and I certainly think the whole sum was greater then the individual parts together. If it did fail against Mary Marvel... eww...
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
At this point, no. but this Gog is a herald for the 'true' gog. Besides, he soloed the JSA, something I don't see Thanos doing. I definitely see Thanos doing that. He soloed the Avengers, FF and Captain Marvel at one point before his Death upgrade, right?

He let her get away. It didn't fail. Darkseid let her escape.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
EXTREMELY BIASED ANSWER ALERT! So you refuse to even consider the possibility, that maybe, just maybe, Darkseid isn't weak, but he's up against powerful opposition? Or that someone could conceivably be stronger than Thanos?

And Gog? How is that a low showing? Especially if this is Kingdom Gog. Gog would rape Thanos. Darkseid isnt weak and nor do I think he is. But I do think he is weak when compared to Thanos. Darkseid isnt as powerful as he once was(that is until fc when his power levels will go through the roof).

Thanos isnt the strongest guy out there but it really proves nothing. He can still compete and dominate powerhouses in marvel.

Gog isnt as powerful as he was in the kingdom. The kingdom Gog was a maniac. This Gog is powerful as heck but I didnt think he could stand toe to toe with Im who is powered by the Source. Especially after his fight with the JSA thus far.

Gog from jsa isnt raping Thanos no way and no how. But lets wait till that story ends to better gauge his power levels.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Lately, I've started visiting herochat more often and realized that Quanchi isn't really that bad. The level of stupidity on that board is astonishing.

Seriously now, this has gone beyond the point where it's just a simple insult. It's pretty much sharing something very obvious.

For example, here are a few threads just from first page. The thread title also shows stupidity but reading the replies really is entertaining

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170690.0.html

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170731.0.html

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,170687.0.html Ok, for one I dont care what anyone thinks of me but as you have come to realize I dont change my point of view and try to fit in what each particular board feels is the popular opinion or dominant one.

I feel over there dc gets shit on. Not by all but by the majority of them. Over here I tend to think marvel gets the short end of the stick overall. Supes is hated on herochat while Hulk gets a ton of hate on kmc. I think Superman doesnt get enough respect over there but I feel he gets too much praise over here. So again with my opinion I clash with the majority of both the boards opinions. I feel they crap all over Darkseid too. I know I have in the past but its mainly when I am arguing for Thanos and it has created a rift between the Darkseid and new gods fans here.

I dont like how both boards have little to no respect for the other ones. There are differences and different points of view but that doesnt mean the other side is ignorant or inferior it just means they see it from another perspective. Now with that being said there is a lot of ignorance out there on all the boards as well.

But sinastro for instance seems to be very knowledgeable on the new gods and imperial seems to be very knowledgeable over there with regards to Odin. Even though I have disagreed with both of these posters they know their stuff.

Bottom line is their are good posters over there as their are good posters over here. Its good to be different as well. If their was no opposing viewpoint this wouldnt be as fun. Not everything is as black and white as Batman vs the Spectre people.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
To be fair, Drax ripped out Thanos' heart as well. Kinda funny that both characters went out the same way.

When did Mary Marvel defelct his OE? I've read Countdown and I don't remember that happening. What were the circumstances? And in my opinion, Superman's heat vision was an extension of him and, as such, was imbued with the same protection by the Source. It's the only way that feat really makes sense.

I think the OE is a bit underrated, only because it has had spectacular failings when it is supposedly the most destructive force in DC. Any Darkseid fans know the best feat of the OE? And not the whole 1/5th Cosmic Odyssey thing. Too circumstantial to be a gauge in my view and I certainly think the whole sum was greater then the individual parts together. If it did fail against Mary Marvel... eww...
I definitely see Thanos doing that. He soloed the Avengers, FF and Captain Marvel at one point before his Death upgrade, right? But Drax was created with the sole purpose of stopping Thanos and his back was turned when his heart was punched out.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, for one I dont care what anyone thinks of me but as you have come to realize I dont change my point of view and try to fit in what each particular board feels is the popular opinion or dominant one.

I feel over there dc gets shit on. Not by all but by the majority of them. Over here I tend to think marvel gets the short end of the stick overall. Supes is hated on herochat while Hulk gets a ton of hate on kmc. I think Superman doesnt get enough respect over there but I feel he gets too much praise over here. So again with my opinion I clash with the majority of both the boards opinions. I feel they crap all over Darkseid too. I know I have in the past but its mainly when I am arguing for Thanos and it has created a rift between the Darkseid and new gods fans here.

I dont like how both boards have little to no respect for the other ones. There are differences and different points of view but that doesnt mean the other side is ignorant or inferior it just means they see it from another perspective. Now with that being said there is a lot of ignorance out there on all the boards as well.

But sinastro for instance seems to be very knowledgeable on the new gods and imperial seems to be very knowledgeable over there with regards to Odin. Even though I have disagreed with both of these posters they know their stuff.

Bottom line is their are good posters over there as their are good posters over here. Its good to be different as well. If their was no opposing viewpoint this wouldnt be as fun. Not everything is as black and white as Batman vs the Spectre people. I noticed you tend to go against what both boards say...

To be honest it just sounds like you say, ever think you over rate Hulk along with a few others I noticed like Guy and one or two others.

Originally posted by Troop
I noticed you tend to go against what both boards say... Yes because my opinion most likely falls right in the middle. Thats my point I would think most would think Id say on herochat Darkseid sucks and he gets smoked with what I have said in the past on here. I dont. I give Darkseid the credit I believe he deserves and admit arguing for Thanos in the past I have taken things too far as other posters have against Thanos as well.

Like I have been saying from the beginning I like Darkseid a lot as a character and most havent believed mainly do to the crap I talked when arguing for Thanos. But think about it I have always said I liked him while at the same time admitting I hate Superman but yet on herochat I give him the respect I feel he deserves. A lot of you disgaree with that but thats a forum and we all dont see eye to eye on every little matter or any matters at all. Such is life and thats what makes this fun the diverse opinions and different arguments different posters bring to the table.

Originally posted by quanchi112
But Drax was created with the sole purpose of stopping Thanos and his back was turned when his heart was punched out. Because it was his destiny to kill Thanos. Same as it was Orion's destiny to kill Darkseid. I think the two circumstances are similar enough to warrant that neither character's feat can really be held against the other's.

Granted, I feel that Chronos and Mentor imbued Drax with some specific Thanos-cide power. It explains Drax's odd aura when he gets closer to Thanos in 'Annihilation.' But I think it's reasonable that Thanos-cide power is almost analagous to Orion's blood-line, possession of the Astro Force and Darkseid's apparent destiny to die to usher in the Fifth World. Almost.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They dont erase his past feats but it does cause us(the readers) to take notice how things have changed with the writers and the way they perceive things.

Thor lost to Superman but they are both very close so it doesnt hurt Thors case as they are very comparable. Darkseid was previously untouchable in terms of top tiers say 20 years ago. Nowadays that isnt so. So taking into account everything. He has pathetic showings when you compare his losses to Thanos'. Not only that but the manner in which he lost or failed to dominate Supes changed a lot of peoples minds as they are comparable today but twenty years ago they werent.

I'm no DS fan, but here is something that nobody has addressed.

Thanos was killed by being matter manipulated by Adam Warlock. He's been powered up, but it's never addressed as him being immune to matter manip.

The OE should easily be able to affect him.

Also, if we go by the way people bias things against Superman and apply them to Thanos here, then Odin, WM Thor, and Tyrant aren't that powerful since Thanos didn't go down against them.

He also never finished his battles against any of them and was prepped for all of them. Technically, those battles aren't great examples because of that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because it was his destiny to kill Thanos. Same as it was Orion's destiny to kill Darkseid. I think the two circumstances are similar enough to warrant that neither character's feat can really be held against the other's.

Granted, I feel that Chronos and Mentor imbued Drax with some specific Thanos-cide power. It explains Drax's odd aura when he gets closer to Thanos in 'Annihilation.' But I think it's reasonable that Thanos-cide power is almost analagous to Orion's blood-line, possession of the Astro Force and Darkseid's apparent destiny to die to usher in the Fifth World. Almost. Thats the key difference as it wasnt his destiny. He was created to do this but it wasnt predestined.

Ill address avlon in a bit here when I get back.

Originally posted by Avlon
I'm no DS fan, but here is something that nobody has addressed.

Thanos was killed by being matter manipulated by Adam Warlock. He's been powered up, but it's never addressed as him being immune to matter manip.

The OE should easily be able to affect him. In the 'Thanos Quest,' which is post-Death upgrade, he travels through several dimensions with different rules of reality that affect him this way. Apparently, because he is a unique being like Adam Warlock, he maintains his self-being. I personally don't think simple matter manipulation would work on him anymore. Granted, the OE is not simple matter manipulation, but being unique seems to throw the OE into speculation.

What is the OE's single greatest feat, anybody? And please no Cosmic Odyssey.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thats the key difference as it wasnt his destiny. He was created to do this but it wasnt predestined.

Ill address avlon in a bit here when I get back. I understand the distinction you're trying to make. Drax killed Thanos because of his specific attuned capability and Orion killed Darkseid only because it was foretold and he just had sufficient power to do it. But considering that it's never been concretely established on-panel that Chronos and Mentor actually imbued Drax with Thanos-cide power and because it it seems that greater forces were at work concerning Darkseid's death, I still think it's unfair to hold one feat against the other. At least for the moment.

Thanos and Darkseid will both make their respective comebacks. And both their deaths will be explored. You can count on that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In the 'Thanos Quest,' which is post-Death upgrade, he travels through several dimensions with different rules of reality that affect him this way. Apparently, because he is a unique being like Adam Warlock, he maintains his self-being. I personally don't think simple matter manipulation would work on him. Granted, the OE is not simple matter manipulation, but being unique seems to throw the OE into speculation.

What is the OE's single greatest feat, anybody? And please no Cosmic Odyssey.

That is an impressive feat, but I've seen similar things on GL's, Superman, Captain Marvel, etc. The rules of reality for each universe are different.

Matter manip is another thing altogether. Thanos did get more powerful, but that hasn't been addressed.

As for the OE, I'm mostly going from what I've seen on the DS respect threads. It has destroyed Pantheons of Gods if I am correct and managed to hurt Anti Monitor, and Imperiex.... so it's a viable attack at it's peak.

At the very least it can port Thanos into deep space without his tech...where he'd be stuck indefinitely.

Originally posted by Avlon
I'm no DS fan, but here is something that nobody has addressed.

Thanos was killed by being matter manipulated by Adam Warlock. He's been powered up, but it's never addressed as him being immune to matter manip.

The OE should easily be able to affect him.

Also, if we go by the way people bias things against Superman and apply them to Thanos here, then Odin, WM Thor, and Tyrant aren't that powerful since Thanos didn't go down against them.

He also never finished his battles against any of them and was prepped for all of them. Technically, those battles aren't great examples because of that. This has been addressed before but Ill be happy to go into again for you. The can you were provided with shows how Thanos is resistant to his being manipulated in a reality sense as well.

First off Warlock performed this feat as a ghost. And secondly for that matter Thanos has been resurrected and his powers were increased exponentially.

Dont you think if this method would work on Thanos that the Surfer would have tried this sometime in their meetings over the years.
The Surfer can manipulate matter so why doesnt he just manipulate Thanos? Answer he cant.


My fourth reason is that the oe probably wont hit him especially if he doesnt want it to. Darkseids beams have been easily deflected by Mary Marvel and they were deceived quite easily in Superman/Batman by the Supergirl shes not really dead ruse. The omega effect has been flat out met and deflected by heat vision and failed to hit its target there as well. Darkseids beams have failed many times to win him a number of matchups.


Remember when Raker cut off the oe or its beams from Darkseid and thus didnt let him use it with his lantern ring.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I understand the distinction you're trying to make. Drax killed Thanos because of his specific attuned capability and Orion killed Darkseid only because it was foretold and he just had sufficient power to do it. But considering that it's never been concretely established on-panel that Chronos and Mentor actually imbued Drax with Thanos-cide power and because it it seems that greater forces were at work concerning Darkseid's death, I still think it's unfair to hold one feat against the other. At least for the moment.

Thanos and Darkseid will both make their respective comebacks. And both their deaths will be explored. You can count on that. Darkseid had a glorious death at that. I am in no means trying to act like hes any less of a character because of the way in which he died. The fact remains he fought two beings before he engaged Orion. So it wasnt a fresh Darkseid.

My only point is that Thanos' death wasnt prophetic and no one was expecting it I am sure at the time. It just kind of happened. Giffen did alter Drax and gave him new antiThanos abilities unimagined by any previous writers when concerning this character.

Most expected orion would kill Darkseid at some point in time as it did fulfill the prophecy. And I dont believe Thanos would have died had he engaged Drax.

Originally posted by Avlon
That is an impressive feat, but I've seen similar things on GL's, Superman, Captain Marvel, etc. The rules of reality for each universe are different.

Matter manip is another thing altogether. Thanos did get more powerful, but that hasn't been addressed.

As for the OE, I'm mostly going from what I've seen on the DS respect threads. It has destroyed Pantheons of Gods if I am correct and managed to hurt Anti Monitor, and Imperiex.... so it's a viable attack at it's peak.

At the very least it can port Thanos into deep space without his tech...where he'd be stuck indefinitely. This scan basically says no matter the rules Thanos remains true to himself.




It destroyed unknown pantheons which doesnt carry any where near as much weight as you are implying.


When did it hurt the Am. If you recall he didnt fire the oe but he channeled Luthors energies and pressed a button to hurt the Am who was already weakened after his battle with the Spectre. Youd have a point if Luthor wasnt involved or if by pressing a button that released the omega effect.


I think its a viable attack but I dont think its taking out Thanos when it cant take out weaker opponents or anyone who you can prove is more powerful than Thanos.

Thanos can teleport.

When did Mary Marvel defelct his OE? I've read Countdown and I don't remember that happening.


I'll try to find a scan of it, but it bounced off her outstretched arm.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid had a glorious death at that. I am in no means trying to act like hes any less of a character because of the way in which he died. The fact remains he fought two beings before he engaged Orion. So it wasnt a fresh Darkseid.

My only point is that Thanos' death wasnt prophetic and no one was expecting it I am sure at the time. It just kind of happened. Giffen did alter Drax and gave him new antiThanos abilities unimagined by any previous writers when concerning this character.

Most expected orion would kill Darkseid at some point in time as it did fulfill the prophecy. And I dont believe Thanos would have died had he engaged Drax. Drax was altered by Giffen in the 'Earth Fall' storyline, but it had more to do with him being depowered actually and regaining his former intelligence. Any Thanos-cide power was originally imbued by Chronos and Mentor and it was never clear that the power bestowed upon him was specifically attuned to Thanos.
Originally posted by quanchi112
This scan basically says no matter the rules Thanos remains true to himself.

It destroyed unknown pantheons which doesnt carry any where near as much weight as you are implying.

When did it hurt the Am. If you recall he didnt fire the oe but he channeled Luthors energies and pressed a button to hurt the Am who was already weakened after his battle with the Spectre. Youd have a point if Luthor wasnt involved or if by pressing a button that released the omega effect.

I think its a viable attack but I dont think its taking out Thanos when it cant take out weaker opponents or anyone who you can prove is more powerful than Thanos.

Thanos can teleport. I'll agree with you on this, a lot of people say that Darkseid used the Omega Effect on the Anti-Monitor during 'Crisis on Infinite Earths.' But on-panel, no reference was made to the OE, he did push a button, the beam of energy was white and looked nothing like the Omega Effect (straight line), and didn't even clearly appear to come from his body.

And you're right, it still oughtta hurt. But I don't think anybody's arguing that it'd be as ineffective as it was against Galactus in that non-canon crossover.

I think Avlon is saying that he could teleport Thanos and at the same time separate him from his technology. Thanos' ability to teleport has never really been displayed on-panel. Does he have a device on his belt? Is i imbedded in him? Does he have a fleet of ships that just follow him around and are cloaked? I think it's a stretch to say that Darkseid could separate Thanos from his teleportation tech (the best in the Marvel universe btw). Besides, BFR is cheap.
Originally posted by Jugglenaut
I'll try to find a scan of it, but it bounced off her outstretched arm. That...

... that would be just so sad...

Man this topic is so played out, now it's just recaping the same thing over and over again.

Its done to death.
Why do mods allow these retarded duplicate threads to be made?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Drax was altered by Giffen in the 'Earth Fall' storyline, but it had more to do with him being depowered actually and regaining his former intelligence. Any Thanos-cide power was originally imbued by Chronos and Mentor and it was never clear that the power bestowed upon him was specifically attuned to Thanos.
I'll agree with you on this, a lot of people say that Darkseid used the Omega Effect on the Anti-Monitor during 'Crisis on Infinite Earths.' But on-panel, no reference was made to the OE, he did push a button, the beam of energy was white and looked nothing like the Omega Effect (straight line), and didn't even clearly appear to come from his body.

And you're right, it still oughtta hurt. But I don't think anybody's arguing that it'd be as ineffective as it was against Galactus in that non-canon crossover.

I think Avlon is saying that he could teleport Thanos and at the same time separate him from his technology. Thanos' ability to teleport has never really been displayed on-panel. Does he have a device on his belt? Is i imbedded in him? Does he have a fleet of ships that just follow him around and are cloaked? I think it's a stretch to say that Darkseid could separate Thanos from his teleportation tech (the best in the Marvel universe btw). Besides, BFR is cheap.
That...

... that would be just so sad... All I have to say about Drax I already stated. The writer gave him new abilities that he previously didnt have. Any writer can give ceratin characters the means to defeat anyone. With the circumstances that happened I am comfortable with it. Drax was recently altered and defeated Thanos while his back was turned.


Yes Thanos' teleportation has never thoroughly been explained but I also doubt he could separate Thanos from his tech.

Originally posted by Mr Marvel
quote:

Who has beaten Thanos physically in a fair fight?


Doesn't matter as I said DS was stronger and more physical durable.









Darkseid is neither Stronger nor Physically more durable than Thanos!

Thanos has taken Bludgeoning force from Thor w/ Warrior's Madness & the Power Gem (which would imply that he wasn't holding back) and found it exhilarating. WM Thor with power gem isn't as strong as Superman in my opinion. The power gem itself doesn't do anything but decorate. Plus Thanos face was bloody.
Fighting someone and making them look silly has absolutely nothing to do with being stronger and more durable. Agility, skill, and fair strength (just enough to cause pause) is all it takes to make bricks look silly. I don't believe that Thanos will cause Superman to even bleed if Superman gave him 3 free punches. DS can and has indeed caused Superman to bleed. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'd say Thanos rivals Superman in strength as well. Thanos stood up to a beatdown of punches and Mjolnir shots from a Warrior Madness Thor w/ Power Gem. He smiled and his lips were bleeding. Granted, he made use of his forcefields, some of which shattered in the fight, but considering this is Thanos vs Darkseid and not Thanos (w/o his usual forcefields) vs. Darkseid, it's kind of a moot point. Thanos' high feats include physical durability.
I think it's reasonable to state that it's not exactly clear who is stronger and who is more durable. Although, Thanos appears to have more impressive physical durability feats. Even when you compare their low feats side-by-sde, Wolverine stab still looks better then Batman blood-drawing kick. That wasn't regular batman who caused DS to bleed. WW bracelets are magical and magic in many cases>>>science powers. DD evolved on the fly to the OE when he was blasted. Either that or DD probably taps into the source himself after his first fight with the Radiant.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This proves you have no knowledge of the character. Thanos can take a pounding. Did you ever read his fight against his doppleganger and the punishment he took there? Thor was pounding on him physically with his hammer in the blood and thunder arc also. He was energy blasting away at him.

Darkseid is the one who goes down to punches. As I said he was physically mauled in 10 seconds from Doomsday. In Apokolips now he was beaten to the point of submission by Supes fists. In countdown three Supes was knocking him all around. In countdown 4 Orion tore his heart out.

Darkseids beams have been deflected by Mary Marvel,WW bracelets, and deflected by heat vision.

They have never taken out anyone as powerful as Thanos before so you dont have a point.

IMO, Superman is much much stronger than WM Thor with power gem. So DS being beat by Superman is moot. Again magic>>>>science powers. That is why WW bracelets can deflect the OE. HV is not matter and so can easily deflect the OE. Thanos isn't made out of HV.
Mary Marvel is magical (I would still like to see how she did it though).

Originally posted by h1a8
WM Thor with power gem isn't as strong as Superman in my opinion. The power gem itself doesn't do anything but decorate. Plus Thanos face was bloody.
Fighting someone and making them look silly has absolutely nothing to do with being stronger and more durable. Agility, skill, and fair strength (just enough to cause pause) is all it takes to make bricks look silly. I don't believe that Thanos will cause Superman to even bleed if Superman gave him 3 free punches. DS can and has indeed caused Superman to bleed. Just my opinion. This proves you have no idea what the power gem even does and it also proves you havent read the story arc blood and thunder. This explains why you feel this way.

To say that Thanos couldnt cause Superman to bleed with 3 free punches is ignorant at best. Supes has been knocked senseless by a Kalibak punch before.

Originally posted by h1a8
IMO, Superman is much much stronger than WM Thor with power gem. So DS being beat by Superman is moot. Again magic>>>>science powers. That is why WW bracelets can deflect the OE. HV is not matter and so can easily deflect the OE. Thanos isn't made out of HV.
Mary Marvel is magical (I would still like to see how she did it though). Thanos can emit energy blasts from his eyes or his hands. So he could deflect it that way.

Supes isnt stronger than Thor amped by the power gem. Quit posting about something you are totally ignorant about.

You havent addressed how they fooled the oe with in superman/batman. So I guess any magical being can stop the oe just because the are magical? According to your logic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This proves you have no idea what the power gem even does and it also proves you havent read the story arc blood and thunder. This explains why you feel this way.

To say that Thanos couldnt cause Superman to bleed with 3 free punches is ignorant at best. Supes has been knocked senseless by a Kalibak punch before.

I have blood and thunder series (in paper not digital). I've seen the power gem several times. It does nothing. It's just for decoration.
Kalibak and most super strong D.C. characters are much much more stronger than Marvel characters. My friend there is a huge strength difference between D.C. and Marvel. IMO, the average in Marvel for class 100s is somewhere between hundreds of tons and thousands of tons. The average class 100 in D.C. is somewhere between billion of tons and quadrillion of tons. So saying Kalibak knocking Superman senseless only proves that he is much stronger than Thanos.

Originally posted by quanchi112


You havent addressed how they fooled the oe with in superman/batman. So I guess any magical being can stop the oe just because the are magical? According to your logic.
How did they fool with it in superman/batman? And no, magic in general cannot stop the OE. The magic involved has to either form a non-material barrier (like energy aura) or be derived from another dimension that is inconsistent (or resistant) to the OE's erasing powers.



First of all, I addressed directly above how Superman and many other D.C. characters is stronger than Thor with the power gem.

Second and finally,
DS can make his beams teleport through time and space. They don't have to travel linearly or through space period. DS can make his beams appear inside Thanos. The fact that DS hardly does this is comic stupidity. The same stupidity that had Spider-man beat Firelord. The same stupidity that has Superman fighting without his super speed and reflexes (getting hit by much slower enemies). The same stupidity that causes Spiderman to get hit by a slow punch when Spiderman can dodge lasers and multiple machine gun fire easily.

Thank goodness this is a forum fight and not a comic one.

DS and Thanos operate on two very different levels. DS should be operating on a Galactus level powerset but due to overall comic PIS/CIS he isn't. IMO a well written DS would take this 10/10...thanos would lose this fight the same reason he would lose to Odin.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos can emit energy blasts from his eyes or his hands. So he could deflect it that way.

Supes isnt stronger than Thor amped by the power gem. Quit posting about something you are totally ignorant about.

You havent addressed how they fooled the oe with in superman/batman. So I guess any magical being can stop the oe just because the are magical? According to your logic.

IN COUNTDOWN IT'S CLEARLY STATED THAT NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THE OMEGA EFFECT. OBVIOUSLY EVERY TIME DARKY FRIES SOMEONE WITH HIS EYEBALLS, IT ISN'T THE OMEGA EFFECT.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have blood and thunder series (in paper not digital). I've seen the power gem several times. It does nothing. It's just for decoration.
Kalibak and most super strong D.C. characters are much much more stronger than Marvel characters. My friend there is a huge strength difference between D.C. and Marvel. IMO, the average in Marvel for class 100s is somewhere between hundreds of tons and thousands of tons. The average class 100 in D.C. is somewhere between billion of tons and quadrillion of tons. So saying Kalibak knocking Superman senseless only proves that he is much stronger than Thanos. Such ignorance. Saying the power gem is used only for decoration is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard.

At least you admit your dc biased and that you believe Kalibak could take Thanos while no one would agree with that. I dont take what you say seriously because you make completely ignorant comments such as the power gem one.

Originally posted by h1a8
How did they fool with it in superman/batman? And no, magic in general cannot stop the OE. The magic involved has to either form a non-material barrier (like energy aura) or be derived from another dimension that is inconsistent (or resistant) to the OE's erasing powers.



First of all, I addressed directly above how Superman and many other D.C. characters is stronger than Thor with the power gem.

Second and finally,
DS can make his beams teleport through time and space. They don't have to travel linearly or through space period. DS can make his beams appear inside Thanos. The fact that DS hardly does this is comic stupidity. The same stupidity that had Spider-man beat Firelord. The same stupidity that has Superman fighting without his super speed and reflexes (getting hit by much slower enemies). The same stupidity that causes Spiderman to get hit by a slow punch when Spiderman can dodge lasers and multiple machine gun fire easily.

Thank goodness this is a forum fight and not a comic one. They fooled it with a fake death.

You stated Superman was more powerful than Thor with the power gem but didnt give examples to back up this ignorant claim.

When has Darkseid made his beams appear inside someone? I have given examples of people avoiding or deflecting his beams. We cite comics as evidence to back up our claims while you state nothing other than your opinion which is very ignorant.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
DS and Thanos operate on two very different levels. DS should be operating on a Galactus level powerset but due to overall comic PIS/CIS he isn't. IMO a well written DS would take this 10/10...thanos would lose this fight the same reason he would lose to Odin. No it depends on the writer. Morrison will have Ds operating on a Galactus level power but all recent writers including Starlin have him as a peer of Superman.

Ds cant take Superman or Orion 10 out of 10 so how can he beat someone more powerful than him or them that many times?How. Explain.

Originally posted by fangirl101
IN COUNTDOWN IT'S CLEARLY STATED THAT NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THE OMEGA EFFECT. OBVIOUSLY EVERY TIME DARKY FRIES SOMEONE WITH HIS EYEBALLS, IT ISN'T THE OMEGA EFFECT. But we have seen it avoided. It was avoided in apokolips now. It was stated it was the omega effect.

Originally posted by quanchi112
But we have seen it avoided. It was avoided in apokolips now. It was stated it was the omega effect.

COUNTDOWN RETCONNED ALL OF THAT. IT'S A LATER COMIC AND IT SAYS THAT NOTHING CAN AVOID THE OMEGA EFFECT. THAT MEANS IT WASN'T THE OMEGA EFFECT THAT DARKY SHOT OUT WHEN IT WAS AVOIDED. IT WAS SOMETHING ELSE. LASER BEAMS. WHAT EVER.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No it depends on the writer. Morrison will have Ds operating on a Galactus level power but all recent writers including Starlin have him as a peer of Superman.

Ds cant take Superman or Orion 10 out of 10 so how can he beat someone more powerful than him or them that many times?How. Explain.

UM, WHEN HAS DS EVER GROWN REALLY BIG AND FOUGHT SUPERMAN? IT'S CLEARLY OBVIOUS THAT DARKY HAS SOME KIND OF HONOR CODE THING WITH SUPERMAN. CUZ WHEN DARKY AND JIMMY WERE KILLING HUNDRED OF PEOPLE, SUPERMAN COULDN'T INTERVENE. IT'S CLEAR THAT DARKY CAN TURN HUGANTIC ANY TIME AND BEAT THE SNOT OUT OF ANY SUPERMAN TYPE.

Originally posted by fangirl101
COUNTDOWN RETCONNED ALL OF THAT. IT'S A LATER COMIC AND IT SAYS THAT NOTHING CAN AVOID THE OMEGA EFFECT. THAT MEANS IT WASN'T THE OMEGA EFFECT THAT DARKY SHOT OUT WHEN IT WAS AVOIDED. IT WAS SOMETHING ELSE. LASER BEAMS. WHAT EVER. This doesnt cut it. A comics saying nothing can avoid the oe when I have seen it avoided. Sorry.

Originally posted by fangirl101
UM, WHEN HAS DS EVER GROWN REALLY BIG AND FOUGHT SUPERMAN? IT'S CLEARLY OBVIOUS THAT DARKY HAS SOME KIND OF HONOR CODE THING WITH SUPERMAN. CUZ WHEN DARKY AND JIMMY WERE KILLING HUNDRED OF PEOPLE, SUPERMAN COULDN'T INTERVENE. IT'S CLEAR THAT DARKY CAN TURN HUGANTIC ANY TIME AND BEAT THE SNOT OUT OF ANY SUPERMAN TYPE. He didnt access the dead new gods sould until after Superman was dismissed. If he does have an honor code with Supes he didnt honor it in countdown 3. he used Olsen to emit k-nite to defeat Supes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This doesnt cut it. A comics saying nothing can avoid the oe when I have seen it avoided. Sorry.
IT'S CALLED A RETCON. NOW TELL ME WHAT BOOKS WHERE THE OMEGA EFFECT WAS AVOIDED OR BLOCKED. CUZ I KNOW DARKY HAS OTHER BEAMS BESIDES THE OMEGA EFFECT.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Such ignorance. Saying the power gem is used only for decoration is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard.

At least you admit your dc biased and that you believe Kalibak could take Thanos while no one would agree with that. I dont take what you say seriously because you make completely ignorant comments such as the power gem one. I'm am D.C. biased. Because D.C. has more powerful characters. I am somewhat open minded and have supported many marvel characters over D.C. Like Spiderman, Captain America, etc.

I don't think Kalibak can take Thanos. I think Thanos would simply own him. But since these characters all weigh under a ton then any class 100 can knock the sh!t out of them (being hurt is a different story though).

You must know that having a power gem alone means nothing. You must also have good knowledge on how to use it (like Thanos can). With poor knowledge it could possibly only increase your strength by a few tons or so. This is supported by all the times people have lost with it. It seemingly did nothing for them.

huh i guess anything goes seeing as final crisis will render the battle non-canon so im gonna go with darkseid because unlike thanos he isnt driven by love so he wont be distracted by trying to win deaths affections.it would be quite funny if death decided darkseid is the perfect mate and darkseid and death walk of into the(non-existant)sunset

Originally posted by fangirl101
IT'S CALLED A RETCON. NOW TELL ME WHAT BOOKS WHERE THE OMEGA EFFECT WAS AVOIDED OR BLOCKED. CUZ I KNOW DARKY HAS OTHER BEAMS BESIDES THE OMEGA EFFECT. Apokolips now.

And this doesnt constitute as a retcon.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm am D.C. biased. Because D.C. has more powerful characters. I am somewhat open minded and have supported many marvel characters over D.C. Like Spiderman, Captain America, etc.

I don't think Kalibak can take Thanos. I think Thanos would simply own him. But since these characters all weigh under a ton then any class 100 can knock the sh!t out of them (being hurt is a different story though).

You must know that having a power gem alone means nothing. You must also have good knowledge on how to use it (like Thanos can). With poor knowledge it could possibly only increase your strength by a few tons or so. This is supported by all the times people have lost with it. It seemingly did nothing for them. Thor and the people he went through with the power gem means something. At least you admit you are dc biased but you are dead wrong if you think the are more powerful.

Originally posted by carnage52
huh i guess anything goes seeing as final crisis will render the battle non-canon so im gonna go with darkseid because unlike thanos he isnt driven by love so he wont be distracted by trying to win deaths affections.it would be quite funny if death decided darkseid is the perfect mate and darkseid and death walk of into the(non-existant)sunset The thread specifies before final crisis meaning classic Darkseid. All we know about fc Darkseid is hat hes really powerful but havent seen him yet.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor and the people he went through with the power gem means something. At least you admit you are dc biased but you are dead wrong if you think the are more powerful.

I saw nothing that he did that Superman couldn't do with a sunamp.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I saw nothing that he did that Superman couldn't do with a sunamp. Supes with a sunamp couldnt go through Silver Surfer,Strange,the Infinity Watch,and Maxam.

Who has Supes gone through with a sunamp that makes you feel this way.

First let's address some issues here, DS could take Supes whenever he wants....there are multiple occasions when he could have killed him but chose not to. Now as far as this fight is concerned, DS' versatility and overall powerset are to much for Thanos....Thanos can't even bring down Odin.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
First let's address some issues here, DS could take Supes whenever he wants....there are multiple occasions when he could have killed him but chose not to. Now as far as this fight is concerned, DS' versatility and overall powerset are to much for Thanos....Thanos can't even bring down Odin. No he cant and comics would prove otherwise. In the recent issue of countdown Ds had to resort to other means in beating him.

Odin would destroy Darkseid much in the same way Doomsday wrecked him.


So saying that Thanos cant beat Odin is no low showing at all while saying Ds cant beat down Supes straight up is a low showing especially when we factor in how powerful Darkseid used to be.




Darkseid doesnt have the durability to hang with Thanos long at all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Supes with a sunamp couldnt go through Silver Surfer,Strange,the Infinity Watch,and Maxam.

Who has Supes gone through with a sunamp that makes you feel this way.

The watch by that count, should have taken out Thor rediculously easily. They did not. They jobbed like hell. That watch, Supes would tear through as well. As for stalemating Thanos in a slugfest, Supes would have won with an amp.

Thanos is just better than Darkseid. Face it DC boys!

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The watch by that count, should have taken out Thor rediculously easily. They did not. They jobbed like hell. That watch, Supes would tear through as well. As for stalemating Thanos in a slugfest, Supes would have won with an amp. No way. Again you call pis when Thor with the pg was a friggin monster who would beat Supes with an amp.

Again even with the power gem amping Thor which is a huge friggin amp he still couldnt beat him down. Thanos would beat Supes down as he wouldnt have the power gem and would run out while Thanos has the durability to hang with Odin in asgard whos above Supes as well. Like I have been saying for a while Thanos doesnt lose to top tiers on panel in fair fights he dominates them.

The same cant be said of classic Seid. I am not trying to take away anything from him but Thanos is on another level.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No way. Again you call pis when Thor with the pg was a friggin monster who would beat Supes with an amp.

Again even with the power gem amping Thor which is a huge friggin amp he still couldnt beat him down. Thanos would beat Supes down as he wouldnt have the power gem and would run out while Thanos has the durability to hang with Odin in asgard whos above Supes as well. Like I have been saying for a while Thanos doesnt lose to top tiers on panel in fair fights he dominates them.

The same cant be said of classic Seid. I am not trying to take away anything from him but Thanos is on another level.

Strange alone should taken him out easily. Or Warlock with the gem. They didn't want to hurt him, or they jobbed. Either way, it's not that impressive taken in context.

Superman's physical feats completely dwarf Thanos's entire career. You have nothing on his best. Even Darkseid and Odin don't compare to Superman's physical best. They have other powers, yes, but physically, Superman can take on almost anyone.

Darkseid creates beings under his power that can destroy Thanos. None of whom are capable of beating 'seid. Validus, Stayne, Brimstone, etc.


Clearly, your warped biased brain can't begin to imagine someone beating Thanos. but Superman with a sunamp, or worse, dip, is stronger than him. Get over it, Troll.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Strange alone should taken him out easily. Or Warlock with the gem. They didn't want to hurt him, or they jobbed. Either way, it's not that impressive taken in context.

Superman's physical feats completely dwarf Thanos's entire career. You have nothing on his best. Even Darkseid and Odin don't compare to Superman's physical best. They have other powers, yes, but physically, Superman can take on almost anyone.

Darkseid creates beings under his power that can destroy Thanos. None of whom are capable of beating 'seid. Validus, Stayne, Brimstone, etc.


Clearly, your warped biased brain can't begin to imagine someone beating Thanos. but Superman with a sunamp, or worse, dip, is stronger than him. Get over it, Troll. I still find it funny you continue to call others biased when you are so biased its apparent to everyone on this forum.

Strange also has been taken out by WW Hulk and some Doombots before and who knows who else. A lot of times heroes get nutty and the good guys dont want to hurt him but they do. I could say the same of Black Adams opposition in ww3. They didnt want to kill him but the syure as hell were defending themselves.


Superman has great physical feats but that doesnt mean he beats Thanos...ever. The guy punks the Surfer,blasts big G a few football fields,physically hurt the Maker which no one else was able to do right before he mind raped her,fought Thor to a standstill and only received a bloody nose and actually enjoyed the skirmish.


He took on Tyrant by himself after he whipped herald levels like children. He also lasted quite a while with Odin who is the baddest skyfather around. Odin couldnt put him down.


You bring up Darkseid creating beings that are powerful but this happened so many years ago. Darkseid himself was written more powerful back then but times have changed.

Today,he bleeds from Batkicks,has tapped out to Superman,has fled from Superman,and was fighting him to a standstill in countdown three until he used Olsen to end the battle. Clever thinking indeed but it also proved he cant take Supes out with his powers easily at all anymore and that they are in the same league.

It doesnt matter if Superman is stronger than him. I dont get how you equate strength to who wins. Its simply wrong. Thanos has greater durability than Supes and is above him. Supes has been physically annihilated by Cyborg,overtaken by shadow demons easily,and knocked silly by a lucky Kalibak punch. These arent low showings but none of this would ever happen to Thanos,ever.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Strange alone should taken him out easily. Or Warlock with the gem. They didn't want to hurt him, or they jobbed. Either way, it's not that impressive taken in context.Strange's magicks backfired against Dr. Strange when he tried to assault Thor w/ Power Gem. The Power Gem was the reason why they backfired. Warlock w/ Soul Gem's karmic blast doesn't work on classic Thor's immortal soul. And when Thor bore the Power Gem, Warlock's karmic blast backfired also.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Superman's physical feats completely dwarf Thanos's entire career. You have nothing on his best. Even Darkseid and Odin don't compare to Superman's physical best. They have other powers, yes, but physically, Superman can take on almost anyone.

Darkseid creates beings under his power that can destroy Thanos. None of whom are capable of beating 'seid. Validus, Stayne, Brimstone, etc.

Clearly, your warped biased brain can't begin to imagine someone beating Thanos. but Superman with a sunamp, or worse, dip, is stronger than him. Get over it, Troll. Strength range is arguable. Thanos doesn't have any lifting feats. But considering which opponents he has been knocking out with his punches, I'd say it's very arguable either way who's stronger. In either case, Superman with his greatest sunamp was struggling to maintain conscious thought. Thanos would certainly take advantage of that. As would Darkseid.

Validus' origin as a creation of Darkseid was retconned. Stayne, as far as I recall, was summoned out of the Source as the opposite avatar of Takion, and was never personally powered by Darkseid. Brimstone was created through Darkseid's science and never Darkseid's personal power either. I don't know what characters have been created by Darkseid's personal power. Thanos has created beings as well through his science and tapping into other powers. The only being he created through personal power was Reptyle, I think.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Strange's magicks backfired against Dr. Strange when he tried to assault Thor w/ Power Gem. The Power Gem was the reason why they backfired. Warlock w/ Soul Gem's karmic blast doesn't work on classic Thor's immortal soul. And when Thor bore the Power Gem, Warlock's karmic blast backfired also.
Strength range is arguable. Thanos doesn't have any lifting feats. But considering which opponents he has been knocking out with his punches, I'd say it's very arguable either way who's stronger. In either case, Superman with his greatest sunamp was struggling to maintain conscious thought. Thanos would certainly take advantage of that. As would Darkseid.

Validus' origin as a creation of Darkseid was retconned. Stayne, as far as I recall, was summoned out of the Source as the opposite avatar of Takion, and was never personally powered by Darkseid. Brimstone was created through Darkseid's science and never Darkseid's personal power either. I don't know what characters have been created by Darkseid's personal power. Thanos has created beings as well through his science and tapping into other powers. The only being he created through personal power was Reptyle, I think.
stayne and takion were created out of highfather and darksied's power.

Originally posted by fangirl101
stayne and takion were created out of highfather and darksied's power.

Correct

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Strange's magicks backfired against Dr. Strange when he tried to assault Thor w/ Power Gem. The Power Gem was the reason why they backfired. Warlock w/ Soul Gem's karmic blast doesn't work on classic Thor's immortal soul. And when Thor bore the Power Gem, Warlock's karmic blast backfired also.
Strength range is arguable. Thanos doesn't have any lifting feats. But considering which opponents he has been knocking out with his punches, I'd say it's very arguable either way who's stronger. In either case, Superman with his greatest sunamp was struggling to maintain conscious thought. Thanos would certainly take advantage of that. As would Darkseid.

Validus' origin as a creation of Darkseid was retconned. Stayne, as far as I recall, was summoned out of the Source as the opposite avatar of Takion, and was never personally powered by Darkseid. Brimstone was created through Darkseid's science and never Darkseid's personal power either. I don't know what characters have been created by Darkseid's personal power. Thanos has created beings as well through his science and tapping into other powers. The only being he created through personal power was Reptyle, I think. Not pre-crisis Validus, who doesn't apply to that retcon.

Originally posted by fangirl101
stayne and takion were created out of highfather and darksied's power. If you mean to say that Stayne and Takion were created through Darkseid's and Highfather's manipulation of Source energies, then I agree. But their creation is nothing like Galactus' creation of his heralds. Galactus creates heralds nrom nothing but his own personal Power Cosmic. Neither Darkseid, nor Highfather created Stayne or Takion through their own personal power. Which should be obvious since Stayne's and Takion's power comes directly from the Source.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you mean to say that Stayne and Takion were created through Darkseid's and Highfather's manipulation of Source energies, then I agree. But their creation is nothing like Galactus' creation of his heralds. Galactus creates heralds nrom nothing but his own personal Power Cosmic. Neither Darkseid, nor Highfather created Stayne or Takion through their own personal power. Which should be obvious since Stayne's and Takion's power comes directly from the Source.

i don't want to seem like a miss know it all, but i must correct you. galactus's heralds draw power from the power cosmic. which is not solely owned by galactus. so your analogy isn't quite clear. and highfather and darkseid's powers also come directly from the source. so saying they didn't create those two guys out of thier own power isn't right.

Originally posted by fangirl101
i don't want to seem like a miss know it all, but i must correct you. galactus's heralds draw power from the power cosmic. which is not solely owned by galactus. so your analogy isn't quite clear. and highfather and darkseid's powers also come directly from the source. so saying they didn't create those two guys out of thier own power isn't right. It's fair to say that Galactus does not solely own the Power Cosmic. Although he is the foremost wielder and manipulator of the Power Cosmic. However, it's the Power Cosmic inside of Galactus, that changes and imbues heralds with their power. I do not believe that Darkseid and Highfather created Stayne and Takion from their own personal energies. They changed them, but Stayne and Takion have to draw their power from the Source directly. Stayne/Takion were not imbued with Source power themselves.

Which I admit, sort of sounds like equivocation, but from my understanding, seems like a fair distinction to make. Other people can feel differently about it.

It's a false distinction. Considering all new gods draw power from the source. Even Darkseid and Highfather.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
Not pre-crisis Validus, who doesn't apply to that retcon. Well, since Darkseid's creation of Validus has been retconned, I don't see how an old retconned story matters at this point.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's a false distinction. Considering all new gods draw power from the source. Even Darkseid and Highfather. Im not making the distinction between Darkseid, Highfather and Stayne and Takion. I understand that the Source gives each one of them their power. I'm distinguishing Galactus/Heralds and DS+HF/Stayne and Takion. In essence, my opinion is that Galactus creating heralds is far more impressive than Darkseid or Highfather "creating" Stayne and Takion.

I also don't see Darkseid's creation of Stayne as being ultimately superior to Thanos' creation of Reptyle. Which is why this was brought up in the first place. But as I said, you're free to have your own opinions. Still, if you think it's clear that my opinion is completely wrong, some scans would be awesome.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Superman's physical feats completely dwarf Thanos's entire career. You have nothing on his best. Even Darkseid and Odin don't compare to Superman's physical best. They have other powers, yes, but physically, Superman can take on almost anyone.

Please tell me you're kidding. What uber strength feats does Supes have that aren't flight assisted?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The watch by that count, should have taken out Thor rediculously easily. They did not. They jobbed like hell. That watch, Supes would tear through as well. As for stalemating Thanos in a slugfest, Supes would have won with an amp.
Imperiex should have taken down Sun dipped Supes with ridiculous ease. He did not. He jobbed like hell.

See what I did there?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Well, since Darkseid's creation of Validus has been retconned, I don't see how an old retconned story matters at this point.
Im not making the distinction between Darkseid, Highfather and Stayne and Takion. I understand that the Source gives each one of them their power. I'm distinguishing Galactus/Heralds and DS+HF/Stayne and Takion. In essence, my opinion is that Galactus creating heralds is far more impressive than Darkseid or Highfather "creating" Stayne and Takion.

I also don't see Darkseid's creation of Stayne as being ultimately superior to Thanos' creation of Reptyle. Which is why this was brought up in the first place. But as I said, you're free to have your own opinions. Still, if you think it's clear that my opinion is completely wrong, some scans would be awesome.

takion or stayne on thier own are both considerably more powerful than any herald and maybe even thanos. and it is very impressive that highfather or darksied could create beings who could tap directly into the source.

FYI, Geoff Johns has said pre-crisis Legion stories are once again canon.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Well, since Darkseid's creation of Validus has been retconned, I don't see how an old retconned story matters at this point.Pc stories are canon for Ds, and Validus and post-crisis Validus are basically different characters, just like current Superman and pc Superman being seperate beings.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I see a bit of hyprocrisy in that user name..........

rofl


hmm pc darkseid vs thanos mabey 50/50

Originally posted by -K-M-
FYI, Geoff Johns has said pre-crisis Legion stories are once again canon. Which makes Superman when he was much younger, a hell of a lot stronger than he is now as full adult Superman... Boy... do they have a lot of explaining to do there. I won't even try. It's just too much retconning stupidity for me.

Either way, clarify this for me: What version of Darkseid kidnapped infant Garridan and turned him into Validus? 20th century or 30th century?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Either way, clarify this for me: What version of Darkseid kidnapped infant Garridan and turned him into Validus? 20th century or 30th century?

30th century

So to those who first mentioned Validus' creation, why would 30th century Darkseid mean a god damn thing in a current Darkseid vs. Thanos matchup?

I assume their going by the fact 30th Century Darkseid said he was not as strong as what he was in the 20th century.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's a false distinction. Considering all new gods draw power from the source. Even Darkseid and Highfather. The difference is they draw their power from the source whereas Galactus' heralds acquire their power through Galactus.

Originally posted by fangirl101
takion or stayne on thier own are both considerably more powerful than any herald and maybe even thanos. and it is very impressive that highfather or darksied could create beings who could tap directly into the source. It doesnt matter as Darkseid and Highfather arent in Thanos' league. Darkseid is Superman level while Thanos is so much more.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I assume their going by the fact 30th Century Darkseid said he was not as strong as what he was in the 20th century. Which as reader we can discount. I mean the Darkseid we know cant dominate Superman while Darkseid in gds was a beast and is seen as much more powerful than classic Darkseid up until the point where his heart was torn from his chest. We as readers know gds Darkseid is a helluva lot more powerful than Darkseid.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Please tell me you're kidding. What uber strength feats does Supes have that aren't flight assisted?


Imperiex should have taken down Sun dipped Supes with ridiculous ease. He did not. He jobbed like hell.

See what I did there? Using his own logic against him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Which as reader we can discount. I mean the Darkseid we know cant dominate Superman while Darkseid in gds was a beast and is seen as much more powerful than classic Darkseid up until the point where his heart was torn from his chest. We as readers know gds Darkseid is a helluva lot more powerful than Darkseid.

Pre-crisis Darkseid dominated Superman, it was only after Crisis on Infinite Earths was he lowered to more of Superman level.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Pre-crisis Darkseid dominated Superman, it was only after Crisis on Infinite Earths was he lowered to more of Superman level. Yes its very confusing but more or less Darkseid was a real badass in that arc much more than what became of him after the crisis.

So saying he wasnt as strong as the Ds that submitted to Superman and got knocked around by him is wrong.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes its very confusing but more or less Darkseid was a real badass in that arc much more than what became of him after the crisis.

So saying he wasnt as strong as the Ds that submitted to Superman and got knocked around by him is wrong.

The Darkseid from the 30th Century was making reference to pre-crisis Darkseid, who was indeed above Superman. Like I mentioned after Crisis, DS's power was lowered and pre-crisis Legion stories were removed. The quote didn't apply to post-crisis Darkseid

Originally posted by -K-M-
I assume their going by the fact 30th Century Darkseid said he was not as strong as what he was in the 20th century. I've seen Tricksterpriest's and Darthgoober's arguments on this exact topic in other threads. A future 30th century Darkseid has as much meaning to this vs thread as a 30th century Thanos does. Validus' creation being used as a feat for Darkseid is laughable and invalidated through forum rules. Thanks for your clarification though, King Mungi.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thanks for your clarification though, King Mungi.

I no longer go by that name

Originally posted by -K-M-
The Darkseid from the 30th Century was making reference to pre-crisis Darkseid, who was indeed above Superman. Like I mentioned after Crisis, DS's power was lowered and pre-crisis Legion stories were removed. The quote didn't apply to post-crisis Darkseid Ok the crisis did in a sense lower everyones powers whether or officially or not. The dc universe can be very tricky. Now Darkseid should be at Galactus level. Go figure. Who knows when things will change yet again.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I no longer go by that name Is it like a Canadian thing?LOL.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok the crisis did in a sense lower everyones powers whether or officially or not. The dc universe can be very tricky. Now Darkseid should be at Galactus level. Go figure. Who knows when things will change yet again.

I give it another 5 years and things will change all over again

Originally posted by quanchi112
Is it like a Canadian thing?LOL.

Sadly no, King Mungi is an Australian punk band which I'm not a fan of but needed a name so I picked it. I didn't think I would be staying long on this board, so I didn't care and I have actually been trying to change my name for close to a year. Finally it happened and now I plan on doing the same for the other boards I venture to. Need a better name then -K-M- though

Originally posted by -K-M-
I give it another 5 years and things will change all over again



Sadly no, King Mungi is an Australian punk band which I'm not a fan of but needed a name so I picked it. I didn't think I would be staying long on this board, so I didn't care and I have actually been trying to change my name for close to a year. Finally it happened and now I plan on doing the same for the other boards I venture to. Need a better name then -K-M- though I recently thought about changing my name to Quan or something shorter but I like K M. Stick with the same name as you can be known over the boards as either king mungi or km.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I've seen Tricksterpriest's and Darthgoober's arguments on this exact topic in other threads. A future 30th century Darkseid has as much meaning to this vs thread as a 30th century Thanos does. Validus' creation being used as a feat for Darkseid is laughable and invalidated through forum rules. Thanks for your clarification though, King Mungi.

I looked something over on this subject.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SupermanBatman23-27.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SupermanBatman23-28.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SupermanBatman24-01.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/wor2.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=metron3fq5.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/MetronBioPower.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/TheLegion029-05.jpg


Darkseid has advanced temporal awareness. Even to the point of seeing other multiverses and timelines. So even discounting Geoff's statements, there's a very strong case right for Darkseid knowing about his future. 2nd, GDS Darkseid was repeatedly stated as being WEAKER than normal Darkeid. Even after draining Mordru and the Controller, he said he was still weaker than normal. 3rdly, Foundations.

Yeah it does seem like he has some level of temporal awareness, which breifly alluded to in Countdown

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown9p05.jpg

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I looked something over on this subject.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SupermanBatman23-27.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SupermanBatman23-28.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SupermanBatman24-01.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/wor2.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=metron3fq5.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/MetronBioPower.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/TheLegion029-05.jpg


Darkseid has advanced temporal awareness. Even to the point of seeing other multiverses and timelines. So even discounting Geoff's statements, there's a very strong case right for Darkseid knowing about his future. 2nd, GDS Darkseid was repeatedly stated as being WEAKER than normal Darkeid. Even after draining Mordru and the Controller, he said he was still weaker than normal. 3rdly, Foundations. As a reader we can tell like km said that he was weaker than how Darkseid was written in precrisis times. Theres no way they are comparing Darkseid from gds to countdown or current Ds before fc. He couldnt even dominate Supes let alone beat him on his own anymore.

Foundations occurred before Darkseid could gather more power. He was weak as crap there and then young Ds beat him through the help of Orion.

This still up, DS takes it simple as that...next plz.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
This still up, DS takes it simple as that...next plz. Explain to me how?

DS if he is written to his true power is basically comparable to Galactus, he has feats that by comparison cripple Thanos. If DS wanted to, he could create the same energies which Drax used to kill thanos...its very simple how he would go down.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
DS if he is written to his true power is basically comparable to Galactus, he has feats that by comparison cripple Thanos. If DS wanted to, he could create the same energies which Drax used to kill thanos...its very simple how he would go down. No not at all. Plus Darkseid has been written as a peer of Superman up until his death.

Thanos could also physically rip out his heart a lot easier than Orion. Even if Darkseid could mimic Drax's energies he wouldnt get him with his back turned.

DS could just punch through his chest...doesnt matter the direction. He could also mindrape Thanos to turn his back so...yeah lol.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
DS could just punch through his chest...doesnt matter the direction. He could also mindrape Thanos to turn his back so...yeah lol. Thanos cant be mindraped and least of all by Darkseid. Which arc did he possess this ability by the way?



Darkseid cant punch through Supermans chest so he cant punch through Thanos' chest.