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Who wins.

is this the jedi academy game?

Its the Jedi Academy trilogy which plays host to the spirit of Exar Kun, Kyp Durron and the sun crusher.

oh, okay. Close fight then, Luke is powerful in the force, i don't think Bane could hurt him with force attacks, so i take Luke in that one. with a saber, i really don't know. bane mebbe 6/10, all out, i'm picking luke, but in all honestly, its probably a toss-up.

Bane is also powerful in the force, even in POD, and grow's in power by ROT. However, that isn't to say that Luke isn't great, 'cause he is, but I'm giving it to Bane because of his advanced force mastery and the possibility that he is stronger than Luke, which is likely.

On the subject of 'sabers I also have to give this to Bane, owing to the fact that he's actually been given training and that he has impressed me alot more than Luke. I know that I sound like a one track record but the orbalisk's also make it highly unlikely that Bane's gonna lose. Bane would most likely pwn him but it might be a good fight.

I don't think bane would win that easily. Luke had already made some amazing force feats, and just defeated the greatest sith lord in saber combat to become a jedi master.

but the orbalisk that he has in ROT does give him an almost insurmountable headstart in saber combat. Luke has to hit to him the face, right? he can't be decapitate, the orbalisks cover his neck too, right? the book never explains how bane keeps his mobility with those things though. how does that work out?

Another plus for Bane is that I'm fairly certain(correct me if im wrong) is that I Luke has not demonstrated force lightning yet.

Who really cares anyway? To overpower a prepared Ro2 Darth Bane with Force lightning, you'll need to get past his force shield, lightsaber, and orbalisk armour (which was capable of absorbing hundreds of thousands of volts of lightning), in other words, not only match him in force ability (thereby negating the force shield), but overpower him to the point where hundreds of thousands of volts of lightning get past his lightsaber defence as well, and not a single Force User has ever displayed that kind of superiority over Bane, so it's a moot point.

Stfu noobaris

WOW! What a great contribution to the argument DS. Surely you couldn't have come up with that by yourself. Admit it, your baby sister must have helped you, what with those long words and the mentally strainious task of you lifting your hands. Even so....... I'm proud of you. You deserve a gold star!!

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
WOW! What a great contribution to the argument DS. Surely you couldn't have come up with that by yourself. Admit it, your baby sister must have helped you, what with those long words and the mentally strainious task of you lifting your hands. Even so....... I'm proud of you. You deserve a gold star!!

I'm surprised your stupid ass hasn't gotten banned either. Guess Rex is either on vacation or very lenient with the morons on this forum.

Originally posted by ??????????????
Who really cares anyway? To overpower a prepared Ro2 Darth Bane with Force lightning, you'll need to get past his force shield, lightsaber, and orbalisk armour (which was capable of absorbing hundreds of thousands of volts of lightning), in other words, not only match him in force ability (thereby negating the force shield), but overpower him to the point where hundreds of thousands of volts of lightning get past his lightsaber defence as well, and not a single Force User has ever displayed that kind of superiority over Bane, so it's a moot point.

i hope we are at least in enough agreement that NJO Luke would beat bane, right? we don't have to argue that one?

Originally posted by truejedi
i hope we are at least in enough agreement that NJO Luke would beat bane, right? we don't have to argue that one?
You're wrong. Noobaris thinks Bane > NJO Luke.

man... durn it.

Originally posted by truejedi
i hope we are at least in enough agreement that NJO Luke would beat bane, right? we don't have to argue that one?

Very few people could beat NJO Luke. Luke would curbstomp Bane.

And, as always, drop dead Nebaris, you worthless sack of crap.

Now...

I think that JA Luke could take this. Electric Judgement would kill the orbalisks (provided he knew how to do it at the time), which would release their toxins into Bane's body. Luke could then just leave Bane for dead.

Oh, and I think the mods need to get quicker on the uptake. When Noobaris was "IKP" he got to like a hundred posts before they banned him.

Give Rex a break, he can't be online constantly searching for Nebaris,

Sabers=bane (orbalisks, all sorts of awesome crap like killing that noob guy who was the master swordsman)
Force=luke
All out=bane (bane doesnt have to do much to get luke, and luke isnt that powerful by now. luke also hasn't shown lighting, the ability that could take apart the orbalisks. luke would have to get a headshot, and luke's lightsaber form isn't known for its accuracy)

Im not a bane fanboy, this is just my opinion.

this=ja luke, not njo luke.

How would Luke win the Force battle?

i dont know, it just seemed fair to give him it, because he sucks at everything else.

Originally posted by skywalker833
I don't think bane would win that easily. Luke had already made some amazing force feats, and just defeated the greatest sith lord in saber combat to become a jedi master.

Indeed? Sidious pwned him when they fought evenly, and he required the assistance of the entire light side of the force aka Leia's battle meditation to overcome him later on.

You know why I so absolutely hate Luke? Because he's the ultimate good guy... he's the friggin' avatar of light, with no sense of humor or any sort of personality quirks. He's just... good, and all-powerful. He's the counterpart to Sidious; but evil people are more interesting . So yeah...

But, unfortunately, Luke at his peak- he's close to his peak in JA, but he's not NJO level yet- would defeat ALMOST everyone in the Star Wars universe.

In the force, I'd personally have to give this to Luke. I mean... Luke's displays incredible force powers, capable of cutting off the strongest dark side user in history from the force- albeit with help- and I see no doubt that he would do the same to Bane. Luke has achieved his father's potential in the force, and thus, it would be logical that he can overpower Bane.

In sabers... well, it'd be very close, but ultimately it can go either way. Both were extremely good saber fighters, and masters of Djem So, but it's possible that Bane might have a slight edge. Maybe, but not necessarily; so, all in all, I'd call it a tie with a slight edge to Bane.

All in all, Luke would beat Bane after a particularly tough and vicious fight.

ok you dont know much. he didn't cut the most powerful one from the force. Trapped and alone vs 5 jedis, sideous's faulty and overpowered body was decaying and getting old. When he died of old age and getting constantly pounded on by the 5 jedis, he entered the body of one of the jedis, and the jedi's will was strong enough to contain him inside his body, sacrificing himself in the process. When the jedi died, so did sideous. Luke did pretty much nothing to kill sideous.

Bane would take it in sabers. he has orbalisks, and has killed the master of djem so of his era. Bane would kick him with sabers.

I haven't seen very much forcewise from luke at this point. I have read dark empire, and although he looks his best, kinda darksidey, in this comic book, he shows very little force power. I do understand that this is a while after, but he still isn't that powerful.

Bane however has done alot. he excercised ultra powerful sith lightning, and extreme cunning.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
ok you dont know much. he didn't cut the most powerful one from the force. Trapped and alone vs 5 jedis, sideous's faulty and overpowered body was decaying and getting old. When he died of old age and getting constantly pounded on by the 5 jedis, he entered the body of one of the jedis, and the jedi's will was strong enough to contain him inside his body, sacrificing himself in the process. When the jedi died, so did sideous. Luke did pretty much nothing to kill sideous.

You don't know much. In DE, Luke,Leia, and the unborn Anakin Solo did cut him off from the force and he lost control of his force storm and then it destroyed the eclipse and Sidious's clone body.

You are thinking of his final death In Empire's End.

obviously they didn't cut him off from the force enough for it to do anything to him... I thought he meant cut off from the force like ulic vs nomi, not a temporary keep the force away from sideous untill his ship is destroyed thing. ANd yes, i read all of dark empire.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Sabers=bane (orbalisks, all sorts of awesome crap like killing that noob guy who was the master swordsman)
Force=luke
All out=bane (bane doesnt have to do much to get luke, and luke isnt that powerful by now. luke also hasn't shown lighting, the ability that could take apart the orbalisks. luke would have to get a headshot, and luke's lightsaber form isn't known for its accuracy)

Im not a bane fanboy, this is just my opinion.
OMG, look at his sig! He is lying, he is a Bane fanboy!!!

lmao yea right. I said i was sorry, ok?

DS you forgot that he is an aluminum falcon fanboy as well

lmao thats ROBOT CHICKEN STAR WARS fanboy lmao.

Anytime i see ur a sig i'm compelled to watch it.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
lmao yea right. I said i was sorry, ok?
Ok, but, you said that after I posed here. So, didn't get it in time.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Anytime i see ur a sig i'm compelled to watch it. Lmao well now i gotta put it back in my sig! haha.

I think that Bane would probably win this, unless luke can somehow get through the orbalisks.

yea i havent heard of luke using super lightning at this point either. Is there a Comic book about grand master luke where he uses emerald lightning and/or superforce anywhere in star wars, because i would like to read up on it.

He only uses it on the cover of the swarm war and in the NJO.

Still, Luke was so good with the force by then that he used the force to walk on lava AND protect himself from the extreme heat.

He also fought a lava monster while walking on the lava. Lava pwnd ROTS Anakin.

lol, true. Anyway, even if he doesn't have electric judgment, doesn't mean he can't beat Bane. He still is very powerful, and almost at his full potential.

maybe not easily, but, what is floating on lava is going to help when fighting bane, unless they were on mustafar?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
maybe not easily, but, what is floating on lava is going to help when fighting bane, unless they were on mustafar?

It shows that he has almost completely mastered the force, and no one else ever had walked on lava.

hmm. it still makes me wonder if anyone else was presented the necessity or the opportunity.

anyway, for reasons stated before, i am sticking with bane for this one, unless you could give me some amaizing skill that he had in ja that could kill orbalisks and/or some amaizingly accurate lightsaber combat.

hmm, can't think of anything right now, I sure some one who has read the series will have something

Originally posted by skywalker833
It shows that he has almost completely mastered the force, and no one else ever had walked on lava. I guess those people in ragged clothes huddled at the edge of the lava were masters of the Force, too.

i didn't read it, so i wouldn't know.

Name one logical way that Luke could realistically harm Bane with the force.

Oh, and Bane would take a SithShit on Luke in the saber' department, unless Bane makes the mistake of dissin' Lukes sister. Then Luke would go all aggro on him and start hacking at him like Jack the Ripper on steriods chair bangin death

Luke is much more powerful than he was before. Remember, this is almost at the point of the NJO.

I'm not saying that this would happen, or if Luke even knows the technique but how would force crush work on Bane covered with the orbalisks. Would the attack affect Bane himself,the orbalisks or both?

could luke crush bane INSIDE his orbalisks?
or could he just crush the orbalisks?
wouldn't that be something like force crushing a blast door?

Don't forget that when the orbalisks get hit by Force lightning, they both die and release a toxin into their host's body. So, if Luke uses Electric Judgement on the orbalisks, and Bane gets a full-body dose of poison, Luke can win.

I don't think he knows electric judgement yet. But he would probably know force cruch.

probably has some tk, but has a force user ever been dammaged by force crush? i haven't heard of it. and he certainly hasn't used lightning at this point. bane is the established winner.

I don't think Bane will win just because of the orbalisks, but I don't know much about them. Anyone like to tell me?

orbalisks are a venemous parasite that would kill most normal beings. They may feed off of the darkside energy of the host. They recycled the darkside energy into adreneline and other steroid like substances into the bloodstream of the host. The steroids would allow the host to draw from his anger even more, and would give him more darkside powers. The orbalisks are lightsaber proof, cover banes entire body, and regenerate most wounds. When the orbalisks are hit with a large electric charge, they die, injecting toxins into the host's body as they die, which would kill the host. Bane had enough darkside energy to feed them without killing himself in the process, making him the only one to survive the parasite for a very long period of time (ten years).

Luke would sqeeze the orbalisks into banes flesh untill they nock into eachother, lose space and get stuck.

He might be able to use it inside of Banes body but I doubt that Luke can overpower ROT Luke by such a huge degree.

I've heard there are some spots that the orbalisks don't cover. Surely luke can aim for those parts?

Originally posted by skywalker833
I've heard there are some spots that the orbalisks don't cover. Surely luke can aim for those parts?

I believe that his wrists are not covered and he wears a helmet to protect his face from the orbalisks but it is not able to block a lightsaber.

And as Knightfall said, they regenerate most wounds, but I don't think they will heal a cut off head, right?

no, but all bane has to do is defend that one small part of his body. Dooku might be able to get him in the head with makashi, but luke has not shown anything exceptionally accurate. Bane would probably easily defend his head.

very true. How much damage can orbalisks take from lightsabers?

Bane basically charged through the attacks of three Jedi, so a lot.

yea and he tried to kill the orbalisks by continually hacking them with his lightsaber and was rather impressed.

they remain, however, a plot device, as nothing could withstand a beam of light 9000 degrees hot.

Other than Boba Fett.vampire

lmao and him...

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Other than Boba Fett.vampire
true.

I'm sure Luke could find a way to beat Bane, but until I think of some way, I am going to say Bane wins this.

Well don't tax yourself. We'd all hate it if you had a heart attack and went into anabalactic shock. cry

we would?

oh, yea, yea we would.

"Anabalactic"? WTF?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Well don't tax yourself. We'd all hate it if you had a heart attack and went into anabalactic shock. cry
I know.

"Shrugs", I'm not a doctor.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
You know why I so absolutely hate Luke? Because he's the ultimate good guy... he's the friggin' avatar of light, with no sense of humor or any sort of personality quirks. He's just... good, and all-powerful. He's the counterpart to Sidious; but evil people are more interesting :evil


AHHHHHHHH so true. Luke is just SO boring, stupid and unrealistically good.

I hate Luke because of that too. If it was Obi-wan who had Luke's powers, it'd be really nice. Even better if it was someone who's neutral rather than dark or light side. But Luke, as of now? "OH NOES I KILLED AN ANT OH AND YES I COULD PWN ANYTHING WITH THE FORCE BUT I WILL NOT USE THE FORCE TO DO IT BECAUSE I ARE GOOD!"

There's.. so many things.. he could have done to end the threats to him or the Republic or whatever before they even begun, if he had any brains.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
"Shrugs", I'm not a doctor.

Clearly, since "anabolactic" isn't exactly a real word -- much less a medical term -- hence Faunus's reaction. You likely meant 'anaphylactic'.

lol

Ouch!!!boxed



For this you get a Chuck Norris thumbs-up!!! So true!!

but if you show to much power, you will turn to the darkside!!! luke must act like a weakling and jsut let whoever wins win!

for a luke fan, your certainly supportive of us when we make fun of him...

Ok... that was completely random. Who said I'm a Luke fan? It is like me calling you a Bane fan. There is no proof of it and especially saying it at such a random time. You are an odd one...

anymore proof necessary? and didn't say fanboy. I said fan.

Fans and Fanboys are the same thing. Except fans can be girls. The thing is though, you haven't given any proof.

Fine, you aren't a fan. so touchy...

thankyou

where did you get your avvy?

My what?

this

Oh, my avatar. I got it in the animated section.

5 to 5. A tie! man, those are rare...

What???!!!!!

Bane would tool Luke at this point!!

Please, people.... See Sense!!!!

its just the way the poll fell.

*cries in corner*

lol. Luke isn't that weak at this point, although I agree by now Bane would probably win.

This one is hard for me, because I like both characters a lot.
Force contest would be Luke.
Saber duel would be Bane.
All out is a toss up.
If I had to pick then I'd say Luke with extreme difficulty.

LUKE CAN'T GET PASSED THE ORBALISKS!!!!!

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
LUKE CAN'T GET PASSED THE ORBALISKS!!!!!

a.) Why have you, apparently, invested so much emotion and thought into a hypothetical debate that -- quite frankly -- you had no real effect on?



b.) You lecturing the public on "seeing sense" is sort of like those times when Nebaris has lectured others on getting a life. The lecture loses its luster when one considers the source; he's an individual who has made dozens upon dozens of accounts for the sole purpose of returning to this very forum to the point that, now, the moderators and others don't even care to deal with him -- they just ban him. As for you, you fellate Bane more than he does. While his actions might appear to be much more pathetic than yours, at least Nebaris has the advantage in that he is actually considerably intelligent.

c.) Remember, life is a popularity contest (which is likely why you'll never make it anywhere). Don't be too upset that Luke lost in the polls, people just happen to like him far better than Bane.

Originally posted by Gideon
c.) Remember, life is a popularity contest (which is likely why you'll never make it anywhere).
Get f***** pwned!

Profiled. Cuz Escape's funny, in an inferior-to-Faunus kinda way.

i believe that those posts were a joke, m8.

lol

Wow, you must really care about me to spend so much time simply to insult me. How charming.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Wow, you must really care about me to spend so much time simply to insult me. How charming.

Or perhaps I'm just one of those miserable young people who enjoy mocking those of lesser stature, nature, and intelligence. Or maybe I have a crush on you and the insults are a juvenile, grade school attempt at shielding it.

Definitely the latter.

Originally posted by Faunus
Definitely the latter.

Don't go giving things away, Faunus, or I'll have to attack you with a dead frozen salmon.

Originally posted by Faunus
Definitely the latter. Lawlz, agreed.

Luke wouldn't win a force battle. But his saber abilities at this point were good enough that Leia couldn't follow Luke as he dueled Palpatine. He wasn't even a blur, just a light.

According to LS, he was in some sort of state akin to Ganner Rhysode's last stand, or Jacen's transformation in TUF, so it's not really an accurate gauge of his own ability at the time.

If that is the case, then so was Palpatine.

Guess so. Supposedly, this all comes from an audiobook, so we'd have to ask him.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
If that is the case, then so was Palpatine.

How in the hell can you conclude that? The gap between Skywalker and Sidious in terms of acquired mastery and ability is monumental; the Emperor had already kicked the shit out of Luke in a lightsaber battle not too long before their second round.

Leia pretty much feels the two have just become pure avatars of light and darkness.

yea yea yea. I wish both of them had some sort of personality.

And Banes saber abilities were good enough 10 years Before this point that for him, time itself stood still and he easily curbstomped someone who was thought to be the Sith'ari

Yes. At no point was Bane described moving THAT fast. Especially in RoT when other combatants seem to be able to watch him just fine

Did you read the post above yours? He was completely invisible to other trained Force-users, and he was fast enough in RoT that the likes of Farfalla and Raskta were nearly trampled to death when he rushed at them, and only managed to get out of the way because they were being empowered by battle meditation.

Clearly, he's fast.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
And Banes saber abilities were good enough 10 years Before this point that for him, time itself stood still and he easily curbstomped someone who was thought to be the Sith'ari

And? Anakin Skywalker "curbstomped" someone who was suspected to have possibly been the Chosen One . Since, clearly, the Chosen One > Sith'ari, I guess Skywalker curbstomps Bane.

1. I've never heard of Dooku being considered the Chosen one.
2. It can't really be called a 'win' for Skywalker as clearly Vader wasn't going full out, as Luke himself actually acknowledges.
3. The Sith'ari> the Chosen one.





'moving so fast it seemed as if time had stopped'-POD p.g. 205

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
1. I've never heard of Dooku being considered the Chosen one.

I believe it was either Dark Rendezvous or Labyrinth of Evil. Or perhaps I'm wrong alltogether, and if proven so, will concede.



Huh? I was merely using your circular logic against you and this response isn't relevant, but the point is that if Bane's supposed to be uber for kicking the ass of someone thought to be the Sith'ari, Anakin Skywalker is even more uber since he kicked the ass of a much more experienced, seasoned, and powerful opponent who may or may not have been thought to have been the Chosen One.



Because you say so? You're most decidedly not me, and only my opinions can be considered fact without the basis of logical support. The Chosen One was a.) the person with the most powerful attunement and potential within the Force and b.) the person who brought total balance to the Force by defeating the most powerful Sith in history . If we are to assume that Bane is the Sith'ari, all he did was institute a new code for the Sith before dying without any significant achievement. The only dark sider who compares to the Chosen One would be the Emperor.

But I guess it does help your case to randomly assert "LOLZ SITHARY > CHOZUN ONE!!1!" so I suppose I'll permit you to do so.





'moving so fast it seemed as if time had stopped'-POD p.g. 205

Originally posted by Gideon




Because you say so? You're most decidedly not me, and only my opinions can be considered fact without the basis of logical support.





what? i agree with your points on this thread, but thats not true.

Well, he is Gideon after all.

And just why the hell not? Even the mighty Faunus, Captain REX, and Blaxican fear my wrath!!1!oneone!!1!



You have done well... my apprentice...

Originally posted by Gideon
And just why the hell not? Even the mighty Faunus, Captain REX, and Blaxican fear my wrath!!1!oneone!!1!
And yet, *I* do not. You've failed. I am annoying like my father before me.

Originally posted by Gideon
And just why the hell not? Even the mighty Faunus, Captain REX, and Blaxican fear my wrath!!1!oneone!!1!





lol, nice

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
'moving so fast it seemed as if time had stopped'-POD p.g. 205
Obviously bane *is* on lukes level in saber combat, and even if he wasn't, I don't see luke getting through the orbalisks.

don't you get it yet? every fight in novelization involving a force sensitive talks about increased speed for the force user. It can't really be compared, its just the words the author uses to describe them. "faster than the eye can follow" , and "time stood still" and "moving like a blur" all mean pretty much the same thing. We can't really have an intelligent conversation about which speed is faster, its truly all a matter of opinion.

what woulda been cool is if all of the duels were in matrix time. Like the lava drops on mustafar fall slowly while the jedi move normally.

Hmm... I'm not sure if that would work out.

It would be cool to have seen how they did it.

or just speed up the tape of the individuals. No slow motion background, but normal speed background with an even more speed enhanced fight scene off the blue screen.

yes, but not old 1932 movie style.

Presumably with amazingly powerful force abilities that had tripled about a year previously thanks to Palpatine's tutelage, and a good deal of knowledge on Sith power and ability

But what he did after that quote was not mere opinion. After that description Bane lands three strikes 'in the blink of an eye', which is pretty much instantaneous, on Sirak, one of which involves a very flashy and time consuming spin. Next it go's on to say that it takes a few seconds for the spectators to even become aware of this, for their eyes to catch up, so fast did he move.
From this, it is clear that Karpyshyn means it to be an explosion of speed and not at all an average feat.

And the description 'time stopped' is obviously faster than 'moved in a blur'.

Err... yeah, Exodus, whatever you say. People in the friggin' MOVIE striked faster than the eye could clearly see the blade. Great job, Bane.

'Time stood still' is the same way of describing great speed as 'faster than the eye could follow' and 'invisible to the naked eye', etc, etc... you have to use your common sense to figure out who is faster.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
But what he did after that quote was not mere opinion. After that description Bane lands three strikes 'in the blink of an eye', which is pretty much instantaneous, on Sirak, one of which involves a very flashy and time consuming spin. Next it go's on to say that it takes a few seconds for the spectators to even become aware of this, for their eyes to catch up, so fast did he move.
From this, it is clear that Karpyshyn means it to be an explosion of speed and not at all an average feat.

And the description 'time stopped' is obviously faster than 'moved in a blur'.
"in the blink of an eye" is also a figure of speech that is used in writing routinely to describe something that is NOT LITERALLY in the blink of an eye. It is just something that is fast. "time stood still" is also a figure of speech, because time cannot literally stand still, or you would NEVER reach the next moment. So that is a physical impossiblility. If it really truly appeared as if time stood still, then time would never move on. My point is, these are authors describing enhanced speed. We can't grab two quotes from two different books, and say "this literally means that this was faster."
i mean, you said it yourself in your quote. "in the blink of an eye" is pretty much instantaneous. "as though time stood still " is too. So which is faster? we can't really know. (and to be thorough), time standing still is technically INFINITELY longer than "the blink of eye" or any other time period for that matter. 0 is infinitely smaller than . 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
001 for instance. Could you truly say one force user is infinitely faster than another? especially two of the power discussed?

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Err... yeah, Exodus, whatever you say. People in the friggin' MOVIE striked faster than the eye could clearly see the blade. Great job, Bane.Gee, and here I was thinking that I actually saw every duel in the movie saga. Silly me.

Originally posted by Faunus
Gee, and here I was thinking that I actually saw every duel in the movie saga. Silly me.

Pfft, glad I'm not the only one.

What Exodus said was 'striking in an instant'; ANYONE can strike with a blade and have it hit the target in the blink of an eye. It does not necessarily make the duels invisible, because you can still see the outline of the saber due to its color.

Originally posted by Faunus
Gee, and here I was thinking that I actually saw every duel in the movie saga. Silly me.

According to Mr. Chee, speeds depicted in the movies do not contradict the speeds represented in the EU.

Which is what I said earlier, almost word-for-word. I was clearly referring to Sidi-Boy's comment that sequences in the movie were actually invisible.

they were actually pretty awesome.

You misunderstood me; I meant that strikes landed when they needed IN AN INSTANT. Hell, even I, not even a professional swordsman can strike with a blade and have it hit my target 'in the blink of an eye'; it just sounds more uber on paper.

It never actually said that time stood still, just that it seemed as such becuase Bane was moving so much faster than everyone else.



Nor do we want to as they'll never be used in an comparison as they described pretty much the same thing for the same character.



Then you must blink really slowly.

Err... lol. I'm sure you can do that yourself; it's not DIFFICULT to wield a normal blade and strike with it so fast that it can barely be seen; the reason why lightsaber are seen is because they're bright and have a certain outline. In addition, take any fast prequel fight (The likes of Obi vs. Anakin, Sidious vs. Yoda, Dooku vs. Yoda, Grievous vs. Obi-Wan...) and try to blink before a strike is made. Once the blink is over, the strike would already have landed; you see, while describing it on in and paper makes it seem more impressive, it's not really that hard to do it.

Nobody is denying Bane's exceptional skill and speed. Using common sense to figure out who is faster is better- of course, someone of, say, ANH Vader's caliber can't be seen as 'really fast' cuz he's not one of the few characters whose speed are emphasized, time and time again.

By NJO, Luke would be logically faster than Bane because he has far more raw power and has a better mastery of the force. See what I mean?

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Err... lol. I'm sure you can do that yourself; it's not DIFFICULT to wield a normal blade and strike with it so fast that it can barely be seen; the reason why lightsaber are seen is because they're bright and have a certain outline. In addition, take any fast prequel fight (The likes of Obi vs. Anakin, Sidious vs. Yoda, Dooku vs. Yoda, Grievous vs. Obi-Wan...) and try to blink before a strike is made. Once the blink is over, the strike would already have landed; you see, while describing it on in and paper makes it seem more impressive, it's not really that hard to do it.

The difference is, Bane moved his entire body far beyond what the eyes of trained Force sensitives could see, to the point where he appeared invisible to them. No other Force User has ever displayed that level of speed, and this was something Bane was capable of at a point in time when he was far from his known peak of power, and before obtaining the orbalisk armour, which near continuously pumped adrenaline and darkside energies into his body (both of which would enhance his speed).



Far more raw power? Nothing even suggests that he possesses any superiority in the department. The only Force User who we can undeniably claim to possess more raw power than Bane is Anakin Skywalker, due to him being the Chosen One, but even then, it's up for debate as to exactly how much more raw power he possesses.

Luke being the son of the Chosen One might imply as much, but that's all that it would be: an implication. We still don't fully understand exactly how Force potential is genetically passed down from one generation to another, and it's highly possible that the gap in raw power between Anakin and Luke is greater than it is between Anakin and Bane.

We don't know either way, which is why it's silly to make such outrageous claims.



Bane's displayed the ability to use the Force on the subatomic level, and can use the Force on a planetary scale. Not any other Force User has displayed that level of mastery, and that includes Luke, so really, what justification do have for making such a claim?

Originally posted by HomoSuperior


The difference is, Bane moved his entire body far beyond what the eyes of trained Force sensitives could see, to the point where he appeared invisible to them. No other Force User has ever displayed that level of speed, and this was something Bane was capable of at a point in time when he was far from his known peak of power, and before obtaining the orbalisk armour, which near continuously pumped adrenaline and darkside energies into his body (both of which would enhance his speed).



Far more raw power? Nothing even suggests that he possesses any superiority in the department. The only Force User who we can undeniably claim to possess more raw power than Bane is Anakin Skywalker, due to him being the Chosen One, but even then, it's up for debate as to exactly how much more raw power he possesses.

Luke being the son of the Chosen One might imply as much, but that's all that it would be: an implication. We still don't fully understand exactly how Force potential is genetically passed down from one generation to another, and it's highly possible that the gap in raw power between Anakin and Luke is greater than it is between Anakin and Bane.

We don't know either way, which is why it's silly to make such outrageous claims.



Bane's displayed the ability to use the Force on the subatomic level, and can use the Force on a planetary scale. Not any other Force User has displayed that level of mastery, and that includes Luke, so really, what justification do have for making such a claim?

Are you Nebaris? Because if you are, it's no wonder you get caught so easily. Using the same reasonings every single time ('Subatomic level') is just bound to get you caught. Although I have no will to debate with you, just for the sake of the argument, I'll counter the specific things you said in that post...

Lol. Luke has a slightly inferior force potential than Anakin, but still, as he IS a Skywalker- you know why he's the most powerful character in Star Wars? Because he has the absolute greatest raw power imaginable. Maybe the fact that Luke had displayed far more impressive feats than Bane, displaying a greater mastery of the light side than any before him...

And I suppose Sidious' 'blur of speed/invisible to other people', Luke's '20 sabers at once' don't match Bane. Yeah, right.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Are you Nebaris? Because if you are, it's no wonder you get caught so easily. Using the same reasonings every single time ('Subatomic level') is just bound to get you caught. Although I have no will to debate with you, just for the sake of the argument, I'll counter the specific things you said in that post...

You know, you really do have a nasty habit of saying that you're going to counter someone's points, and then failing miserably. It's adorable, really.



Only "slightly" inferior? Substantiate this highly idiotic and completely unsupported claim.



Substantiate what effect BEING a Skywalker has, and prove that it automatically puts his potential above Bane's.



Fallacy of many questions.



Fallacy of Division.



Like? What's far more impressive than being able to absorb and contain a planetary level of Force power, and then being able to redirect it with a planetary scale? That's a planetary level of both power and mastery; Luke's never displayed anything far above that.



Bane's not a lightsider, and he's displayed a greater mastery of the Force (period) than anyone before or after him (that we've yet to see, which includes Luke).



As much as you wish the opposite was the case, the fact remains that George Lucas retconned the part of the novel that frames Sidious and Mace moving at such speeds, and made no effort whatsoever at even hinting that Mace and Sidious may have been moving at such speeds in the final product.

Not that it matter anyway, as Bane was likely moving faster than Sidious would have been anyway (appearing invisible to the likes of Kas'im >>> than appearing like a blur to the likes of Anakin Skywalker (I don't care if he was the Chosen One, his developed power and Force mastery was severely lacking at that particular point of time, whereas Kas'im was able to defend against an attack that would have been able to disintegrate his undefended body, which suggests that he was at a higher level of power than Anakin)), and again, at a time where he was miles away from his highest level of power.



Sidious has never displayed that level of speed, and to reiterate, Bane appeared that way to trained Force Users (Kas'im being one that was among them) when he was literally miles away from being as fast as he would be by RoT.



All that was said was that Luke might as well have been wielding twenty lightsabers, which essentially amounts to him being able to wield his lightsaber with twenty times the efficiency than that of an unknown measuring device, and even then, that's if the statement wasn't an exaggeration. There's also the fact that he was in a powerful Force meld with Jacen and Jaina at the time, enhancing his abilities to a similar degree that Battle Meditation likely would. Hell, the fact that Jaina was capable of seeing him during the entire process at least tells us that he wasn't moving faster than what such a calibre of Jedi were capable of seeing.

I fail to see how that compares to what Bane displays in Pod, and comparing the circumstances (Luke being in powerful Force Meld/Bane far from his known peak of power) behind what they display even further undermines how what Luke displays stacks up to Bane's level of speed.

Originally posted by HomoSuperior
Only "slightly" inferior? Substantiate this highly idiotic and completely unsupported claim.

If you've proven anything in your posts, it's merely simply about how much of a blatant idiot you are. Very nice.

And you know what? According to George Lucas, Luke had the same; yes, same force potential as Anakin Skywalker, the being who was known to have potential to be the strongest person in Star Wars history. Yes, even above Bane! *gasp*. According to Lucas in the ESB Director's Commentary, Luke's force potential is actually twice as much as Sidious', and also happened state in the making of RotS that Anakin could have went on to become twice as powerful as Sidious. See the similarities? Like it or not, Luke's raw power FAR exceeds Bane's.



Originally posted by HomoSuperior
Substantiate what effect BEING a Skywalker has, and prove that it automatically puts his potential above Bane's.

How about my evidence above, made by GL, who is TEH source, superior to anything else? Also, how about the fact that Leia, a being who had almost no training with her friggin' FETUS could channel the entire light side of the force to cut off Sidious from the force? Yeah, if there was ever something that screams out "raw power!!!" more than this, I'll probably eat my hat. If I had a hat.



Originally posted by HomoSuperior
Fallacy of many questions.



Fallacy of Division.

How could I forget that you think that Sion is the most powerful being in Star Wars.



Originally posted by HomoSuperior
Like? What's far more impressive than being able to absorb and contain a planetary level of Force power, and then being able to redirect it with a planetary scale? That's a planetary level of both power and mastery; Luke's never displayed anything far above that.

Err... Sidious replicated the same feat with his force storms, and this is WITHOUT the aid of 25 other Sith Lords; and Luke is stated to be more powerful than Sidious. The same Luke whose attunement to the force was to the extent that he could construct a lightsaber- something that only Padawans who had their training almost entirely complete, training that generally spanned several years- with basically no training whatsoever? Yeah.



Originally posted by HomoSuperior
Bane's not a lightsider, and he's displayed a greater mastery of the Force (period) than anyone before or after him (that we've yet to see, which includes Luke).

I basically "ROFL" at this. Bane would get trashed in the force by Luke, both due to Luke's raw power, his EXTREME saber skills. How about him being able to use lightning to a potency that he was able to WTFpwn friggin' Yuuzhan Vong slayers? Deflect blasts from AT-ATs using the force exclusively? Yeah, as much as you like, Bane is trumped in mastery of the force by a large amount of people.



Originally posted by HomoSuperior
As much as you wish the opposite was the case, the fact remains that George Lucas retconned the part of the novel that frames Sidious and Mace moving at such speeds, and made no effort whatsoever at even hinting that Mace and Sidious may have been moving at such speeds in the final product.

The only thing he 'retconned' were the fact that Anakin did not see the actual fight; he implied absolutely no where that they were fighting slower. According to Ian McDiarmid- who has no motive to lie- Sidious was supposed to be one of the fastest duelists around. Sure, his 500 times the speed was an exaggerration, but still, the fact remains that BOTH Sidious and Mace fought with extreme speeds. Think of the novel as "What Anakin would've saw had he seen the duel".

Originally posted by HomoSuperior
Not that it matter anyway, as Bane was likely moving faster than Sidious would have been anyway (appearing invisible to the likes of Kas'im >>> than appearing like a blur to the likes of Anakin Skywalker (I don't care if he was the Chosen One, his developed power and Force mastery was severely lacking at that particular point of time, whereas Kas'im was able to defend against an attack that would have been able to disintegrate his undefended body, which suggests that he was at a higher level of power than Anakin)), and again, at a time where he was miles away from his highest level of power.

And what the f*** implies the fact that force = enhanced vision? I didn't see it anywhere; sure, you can use the force to 'see' your opponent's strikes, that's how these sorts of people can keep up with each other; but nevertheless, these points are made from merely visual sight, and therefore, Anakin and Kas'im are equally reliable sources.

Oh, and by the way, maybe Bane's 'moving so fast time stood still' is also an exaggerration, like you claim Luke's 20 sabers to be?



Originally posted by HomoSuperior
Sidious has never displayed that level of speed, and to reiterate, Bane appeared that way to trained Force Users (Kas'im being one that was among them) when he was literally miles away from being as fast as he would be by RoT.

Right. How about DE? Oh, I forgot, you think that Bane's breathe could kill DE Sidious.

I'm not gonna turn this into another Sidious vs. Bane debate; it ended being a very murky and annoying debate between Faunus and myself.



Originally posted by HomoSuperior
All that was said was that Luke might as well have been wielding twenty lightsabers, which essentially amounts to him being able to wield his lightsaber with twenty times the efficiency than that of an unknown measuring device, and even then, that's if the statement wasn't an exaggeration. There's also the fact that he was in a powerful Force meld with Jacen and Jaina at the time, enhancing his abilities to a similar degree that Battle Meditation likely would. Hell, the fact that Jaina was capable of seeing him during the entire process at least tells us that he wasn't moving faster than what such a calibre of Jedi were capable of seeing.

The fact that 20 sabers basically means that Luke seemed to be wielding 20 sabers, as you yourself said, which actually means the fact that he attacked so fast he looked like he wasn't attacking with one saber, but rather with twenty sabers- basically, with 20 times the speed of what would likely be expected of the average Jedi; like it or not, that is still far more impressive than anything Bane could do. 'Time stood still' isn't particularly clear, and just as 20 sabers at once could appear to be an exaggerration, time stood still is even MORE likely to be an exaggerration. Unless your own rules don't apply to Bane.

Other than you, basically every single person agrees that Luke's capacity with the force is well beyond what Bane could do; indeed, this is the same Luke that canonically, unless you want to argue with GL, has the highest (tied with Anakin) recorded raw power in history. While he may not have the highest mastery or the broadest knowledge, he certainly isn't lacking in that; as you could see, Luke, a far superior user of the force in comparison with Bane, could logically empower himself and allow himself speed beyond what Bane could do.

During the battle of Yuuzhan'tar, Luke is described as a malestorm of force energy, and shocked the likes of Jacen and Jaina with his incredible speed and ferociety; essentially, he became one with the force and allowed himself to be put into a 'trance' by its power. It's similar to his duel with reborn Sidious upon the Eclipse, when the entire light side of the force and the extreme battle meditation offered by his sister and nephew empowered him to a similar degree; however, this time, he is doing it himself, and is displaying power greater than anything Bane could even come close to displaying during his lifetime.

Originally posted by HomoSuperior
I fail to see how that compares to what Bane displays in Pod, and comparing the circumstances (Luke being in powerful Force Meld/Bane far from his known peak of power) behind what they display even further undermines how what Luke displays stacks up to Bane's level of speed.

As you fail to see that, you're absolutely blind and cannot see the most obivious thing in Star Wars history. Now, I'm going to take the advice of my wise comrade, Ivalice, and stop debating with you. You obiviously cannot see the obivious, and none can point it out to you, either.

just don't argue with him, report him, move on with your life...

Apparently you can't quite grasp the entire concept behind moving faster than the eye can see. It doesn't actually mean that your vision is in any way lacking (though even if that were the case, Jedi do use the Force to augment their senses, as explained by Qui-Gon to Obi-Wan in the Jedi Apprentice series), what it actually means is that something is moving so quickly that your brain isn't capable of keeping up with it. Reaction speed, reaction timing, reflexes, whatever you want to call it, is what determines whether your brain can keep up with a particular movement or not, and it's something that Jedi are fully capable of enhancing. So no, Kas'im would be far more capable than Anakin in keeping up with such a movement.



Except for the fact that the author goes completely out of his way to make it clear that Bane really was literally invisible to these Force Users, three different times (the first time with the statement "it seemed as if time had stopped for the rest of the world," the second with a detailed description of how he was able to pull of the manoeuvre in the blink of an eye, and the third time with the description that he had moved "so much faster than their eyes could see,". It was made explicitly clear that these Force Users quite simply weren't able to see a single thing throughout the entire manoeuvre. The statement that Luke might as well have been wielding twenty lightsabers, however, is always going to be subject to hyperbole, simply because the idea that he was wielding his lightsaber with exactly twenty times the efficiency of someone else wielding one is far too precise a calculation for it to realistically be taken 100% literally.



Right. How about being elaborate?

Cite examples, and substantiate them, because as it stands, you haven't in any way supported the idea that Sidious' speed equals or surpasses Bane's (primarily due to the fact that it doesn't).



RotS Sidious, actually.



Thanks for the newsflash.



Again:

1. The statement's naturally subject to hyperbole, due to the extremely precise number given.

2. All it means, if you take it completely literally, was that Luke was wielding his lightsaber with 20 times the efficiency of an unknown measuring device. It could be an average Jedi, it could be an average Human. We don't know either way.

3. He had been in a powerful Force Meld with his niece and nephew at the time.

4. Bane's level of speed was, again, when Bane was far from his peak, and before obtaining the orbalisk armour.

Really, you have no argument whatsoever. Based on what they've displayed, in terms of speed, Bane has Luke beaten by a mile.



I've already explained how this isn't the case.

The narrator quite clearly elaborated on the description by explaining the exact effect it hand on those around them, and exactly what he was capable of pulling off in a defined period of time



Am I supposed to care? The majority of people here are either fanboys or morons. The popular consensus is only as reliable as the setting.



Except he states no such thing.



No, he logically can't.

Developed power: Bane's is at the very least on par with Luke's, given the method in which he absorbed and contained a planet destroying level of energy.

Mastery: Bane has Luke beaten quite firmly here, given how he's able to use the Force on a planetary scale, or alternatively a subatomic scale.

Physical conditioning: Bane was a mountain of muscle, and while that would add on weight, it would have a far greater effect in fueling his speed. Luke's beaten in this category as well.

Then, of course, there's the orbalisk armour, which pumps Bane up with adrenaline, and dark side energies. An advantage Luke doesn't possess.

Logic is with Bane on this one.



Most of that is unsupported nonsense. No indication is given whatsoever that would suggest he was channelling the entire lightside of the Force or anything. And while he clearly awed Jacen and Jaina, they were relatively still pretty unimpressive at the time. Jacen only really got especially powerful after his five year journey, and Jaina not until the LotF era. Meanwhile, they were still capable of seeing Luke, which can't quite be said for Kas'im and Bane, and most importantly, the entire scene featured a Battle meld empowered Luke. None of what he performed was done under his own power.



You're absolutely right Sidi-Boy, I can't quite see the "obivious," mainly due to the fact that it's not even a word.

You probably mentioned this already HomoSuperior, but what specific examples are you talking about when you say that Bane is "able to use the Force on a planetary scale, or alternatively a subatomic scale"?