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First off I'd just like to say that had this story arc came out on time it would've been one of the best Superman arcs in a long time.

Secondly I'd like to say that the art was pretty kickass also.

Now to the real reason for this thread.

It ends with Chris Kent getting pulled back into the Phantom Zone. Does that mean he is gone from the Superman books now? I mean if this was how the arc was supposed to end a year ago or so then does that mean all the other appearances of Chris weren't supposed to happen? The timing of everything was just really thrown off.

Discuss.

It was a pretty good issue. Didn't quite have the impact that the original storyline had when it came out, but not bad. Looks like there may be a few things to sort out in terms of the timing of the storyline.

They really did do Lex dirty in this one. While all the heroes on the planet failed, his plan actually worked and saved the world. Donner has probably the best Luthor out of any I've seen in recent years.

Originally posted by Avlon
They really did do Lex dirty in this one. While all the heroes on the planet failed, his plan actually worked and saved the world. Donner has probably the best Luthor out of any I've seen in recent years.

THis issue was badass.

Amazing issue.

Way too long of a delay, though.

And the thing about Chris' appearances IS an odd question.

kryptonian kill galore.It suck to be kryptonian in this issue.

I think the delay really did a diservice to this comic, as i was reading it, i was thinking more of other comics that i had to read, it just fell flat for me.

Originally posted by starlock
I think the delay really did a diservice to this comic, as i was reading it, i was thinking more of other comics that i had to read, it just fell flat for me. Not sure how that happened, when it was probably the best issue that came out this week.

It's out? AT LAST!!!!

Kuberts art was incredible.

Metallo played a much smaller part in the issue than expected, I was thinking he would do most of the cleaning. The other types of Kryptonite were kind of downplayed, but it was still one of the best issues I've read as of late.

The only thing I disliked about the issue was the fact that Lex was almost written off as comic relief.

Originally posted by Juntai
Kuberts art was incredible.

It sure was.

It was a pretty cool issue. I had almost forgotten the whole"son" thing. Luthor shouldve gotten the credit for saving everyone's ass. Question, Is the fact that humans and kryptonians cant make babies common knowledge? I never heard that before(I dont follow Superman much aside from JLA).

Anyone else notice that Krypto's origin seems to be the precrisis one rather than post crisis?

Originally posted by Juntai
Kuberts art was incredible.
Definitely.

It had almost a cinematic feel. Like I was watching some kind big budget action movie.

Also it's interesting to note that Gold Kryptonite now apparently only removes Kryptonian powers temporarily instead of permanently

Originally posted by Deathstroke
Definitely.

It had almost a cinematic feel. Like I was watching some kind big budget action movie. Exactly.

Really good issue. Luthor reminded me of Norman Osborn a lot in this issue.

Did anyone notice the for shadowing of Doomsday ;

Zod "I decimated the Doomsday terrorists before they unleashed their monster"

Zod "Next time I break free I will unleash him upon your adopted world"

I can't wait for a Geoff Johns revamping of Doomsday. Id love him to have Sun crystals rather than Bony protrusions.

P.S. the Origin is going to be sorted out next year, Dan Didio stated that Robinson and Johns would be doing it together. I don't think it will be the Pre Crisis one, but an amalgamation of the new (Brynne) and old.

Doomsday sucks, they've tried to make him more than a one dimensional plot device but overall he's little more than a filler villain when they can't come up with anything else.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
It was a pretty cool issue. I had almost forgotten the whole"son" thing. Luthor shouldve gotten the credit for saving everyone's ass. Question, Is the fact that humans and kryptonians cant make babies common knowledge? I never heard that before(I dont follow Superman much aside from JLA).

its not really a matter of cant, cant...superman explained it to Lana Lana just about the time when 52 was kicking off, that a kyptonian baby couldnt come to term in a human woman's womb becuz once its starts to develop an errant kick or punch could kill her...though over the yrs some writers have tried to explain it that K-tonian DNA is too eveloved to be compatiable with humans

me personally the only way i see that happeneing is if they put the woman in a room with an artificial red sun... or the other way around...just have a krptonian female mate with a human male...her womb would be strong enuff to take a punch or too

The thing about that is...how much sunlight does the child get in the womb? Why would it be powered at all?

Exactly...didn't it take Clark,who was fully exposed to the sun,years to develop powers

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Exactly...didn't it take Clark,who was fully exposed to the sun,years to develop powers Depends on what you mean by years, since Infinite Crisis, which undid the Crisis reboot of Superman completely and brought back his Pre-Crisis origins and feats, the current continuity of Superman has Clark already established with his powers as a very young boy - as seen in Action Comics annual 10.

Clark also, from his young childhood to now is always holding his awesome powers in reserve, almost incapable of truly grasping his unlimited godlike power, having to slowly evolve and overcome his mental blocks.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Exactly...didn't it take Clark,who was fully exposed to the sun,years to develop powers
That was going to be my next point. Was it ever stated that Clark showed any signs of powers as a new born/infant?

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
That was going to be my next point. Was it ever stated that Clark showed any signs of powers as a new born/infant?

Right now? Who the **** knows.

Pre-crisis, Clark had powers since he was an infant - he even had adventures as 'Super-baby' (no shit), and later Superboy, finally becoming Superman when he went to Metropolis.

Post crisis, he originally developed his powers in his late teens, I believe, and never went around Smallville as Super-baby, OR Boy.

Recent revelations, however, have retconned that. Now, Clark most definitely WAS Superboy in Smallville, and adventured with the Legion - it's unclear just how early Clark first got his powers. He had them as a child, but as a toddler? An infant?

It's really a bit of a cluster****. .

well even in bryne's run Ma and Pa kent did note that he didnt have a scratch on him or wasnt even crying when they pulled him out of the wreckage...and that was mere hours after he was exposed to yellow sun for the first time...

so i believe that a K-tonian baby concieved on earth would have powers start to develop right away.....beucase as it was brought out earlier Supes always had powers he's just been mentally blocking them, thereby fooling himself into thinking that they didnt start to develop until after he hit puberty....cuz when you think about it Chris Kent and all the others that emerged from the N-zone(whove never been exposed to yellow sun b4) wouldnt have powers straight off the bat like they did if they didnt already have the genetic propensity to metabolize solar energy no matter what age

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Did anyone notice the for shadowing of Doomsday ;

Zod "I decimated the Doomsday terrorists before they unleashed their monster"

Zod "Next time I break free I will unleash him upon your adopted world"

I can't wait for a Geoff Johns revamping of Doomsday. Id love him to have Sun crystals rather than Bony protrusions.

Those quotes weren't in direct order. "You don't know the other horror that lurks within the shards of the Phantom Zone, Kal-El!"

Then "when I break free etc".

I don't see Doomsday as the lurking type either.

loved the issue, and i like how johns updated it so that it came right up to speed, and also, no chris kent... not that i don't like the kid, i just prefer the comics without him...

Originally posted by Soljer
Right now? Who the **** knows.

Pre-crisis, Clark had powers since he was an infant - he even had adventures as 'Super-baby' (no shit), and later Superboy, finally becoming Superman when he went to Metropolis.

Post crisis, he originally developed his powers in his late teens, I believe, and never went around Smallville as Super-baby, OR Boy.

Recent revelations, however, have retconned that. Now, Clark most definitely WAS Superboy in Smallville, and adventured with the Legion - it's unclear just how early Clark first got his powers. He had them as a child, but as a toddler? An infant?

It's really a bit of a cluster****. .

when in doubt, i go by donner's superman 1 origin...

i hope they bring the kid back soon to justify his other appearances. id like to see superman deal with a few more problems as a parent then DC can use him as a sacrifice to help superman crack a little and go ballistic. i like it when he gets angry =D

fav part with bizzaro lol. i prefer the other general Zod really =/ awesome story tho.

btw do you EVER thing mon-el is gonna get that damn cure? id honestly like to see this poor kid cured and out in space maybe smackin around some space baddies and reintroducing himself to the universe. cuz seriously earth has enough super people.

Hmm, I didn't really like Mon-El in Legion.

But maybe he has potential on his own.

Originally posted by jumpmann
Those quotes weren't in direct order. "You don't know the other horror that lurks within the shards of the Phantom Zone, Kal-El!"

Then "when I break free etc".

I don't see Doomsday as the lurking type either.

First of all its a 'ittle bit of a coincidence, who else is Zod talking about in the second quote ? Also how the **** do you 'lurk about' in a hyper dimension that with strains metaphysical souls ?

Originally posted by manjaro
well even in bryne's run Ma and Pa kent did note that he didnt have a scratch on him or wasnt even crying when they pulled him out of the wreckage...and that was mere hours after he was exposed to yellow sun for the first time...

so i believe that a K-tonian baby concieved on earth would have powers start to develop right away.....beucase as it was brought out earlier Supes always had powers he's just been mentally blocking them, thereby fooling himself into thinking that they didnt start to develop until after he hit puberty....cuz when you think about it Chris Kent and all the others that emerged from the N-zone(whove never been exposed to yellow sun b4) wouldnt have powers straight off the bat like they did if they didnt already have the genetic propensity to metabolize solar energy no matter what age

From a biological perspective combining such different DNA is never likely to have good consequences, and from a pratical perspective I bet 'Super Ejaculation' is pretty dangerous.

not if he pulls out and blows in his a hand and turkey baste it in with his fingers

Originally posted by manjaro
not if he pulls out and blows in his a hand and turkey baste it in with his fingers

thanks for that...

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
First of all its a 'ittle bit of a coincidence, who else is Zod talking about in the second quote ? Also how the **** do you 'lurk about' in a hyper dimension that with strains metaphysical souls ?
If you kept reading you'd notice Mon-L flying around the zone saying it's a big place. So obviously they can move around with their bodies, and again Doomsday doesn't lurk.

And I'd never said it couldn't be Doomsday or was someone else. Just let everyone know that those quotes were not in order so the context is changed.

But more anti-Doomsday evidence for the sake of argument...

"You don't know the other horror that lurks within the shards of the Phantom Zone, Kal-El!"

Superman is extremely aware of everything that goes on. I'd like to think after beating up DD in Metro he'd remember sending him to the PZ. If you look at that quote and analyze it literally then he's simply does not know what he's talking about so the horror could be anything/anyone. Krypton has been sending shit there for awhile. Such as Brainiac, who has an upcoming arc in Action Comics.

Originally posted by jumpmann


Superman is extremely aware of everything that goes on. I'd like to think after beating up DD in Metro he'd remember sending him to the PZ. If you look at that quote and analyze it literally then he's simply does not know what he's talking about so the horror could be anything/anyone. Krypton has been sending shit there for awhile. Such as Brainiac, who has an upcoming arc in Action Comics.

Whose to say its the same Doomsday, its more than likely to be Geoff Johns remodelling, with a different history.

quick idea. wasnt their a Zod superman in countdown?possible future eh? made me think the Zod kid could be the new superboy. i dont think they would throw away a possibility like that away so the kid probly stick around. maybe.

i really dont get the big deal with the 'super kid' crap. i mean the genetic aspect fine. but in comics more different species have had offspring in one form or another. and kryps and humans arnt that damn different.

the superbaby blowing out the womb like a scene out of aliens... okayyy... maybe. but steps can be taken to take care of this problem. keep the chick under red sunlight until the baby is out. its something. and really just falls on lois or whoever the mother would be on what they will tolerate, how bad they want the kid on what they will endure to have it.



well it was legion, they had superboy more at focus and well it was a while ago. give him so someone with some balls and ideas and he could turn out great. space wars, Vs new ion, bizzaro. make him his own man and things work out fine. keep him in the phantomzone being one of supermans 'failures' and its just sad. plus wtf, supergirl decides to cure cancer and seems to get further in her goal at some point than superman working on Mon-El. i really dont think he gives a sh*t or atleast thinks its a lost cause =_=.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Whose to say its the same Doomsday, its more than likely to be Geoff Johns remodelling, with a different history.
Could be, with the Superman event next year I find it hard to image Johns would resort to a mindless monster being his primary villain.

Originally posted by jumpmann
Could be, with the Superman event next year I find it hard to image Johns would resort to a mindless monster being his primary villain.

doomsday is anything but mindless nowadays, though... there's nothing stopping his reimagining to be a smarter, doomsday wars esque one...

johns is doing brainiac though, for the forseeable future, at least thats what i heard...

still, johns doing DOS round 2? badass. get reis or benes on art, and that would be awesome, imo.

Originally posted by jumpmann
Could be, with the Superman event next year I find it hard to image Johns would resort to a mindless monster being his primary villain.

I find it hard to believe that you are so short sighted !

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I find it hard to believe that you are so short sighted !
K. I posted how it was more likely to be someone else, that's all I had to say, and you're just a silly little funny named poster who will believe what he wants to regardless.

Originally posted by jumpmann
K. I posted how it was more likely to be someone else, that's all I had to say, and you're just a silly little funny named poster who will believe what he wants to regardless.

Oh dear ....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_Doubt

http://dictionary.infoplease.com/cartesian+doubt

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/1350/essays/doubt.html

http://www.freeessays.tv/d14071.htm

http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/4c.htm

http://thalesianfools.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-cartesian-doubt-part-i.html

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4RNWN_enGB268GB268&q=Cartesian+Doubt

Yeah its funny.

I laughed.

Originally posted by jumpmann
Yeah its funny.

I laughed.

At what ? .... there's nothing to laugh at except your ignorance to whom Descartes is, and that isn't funny.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
At what ?
You're name is funny.

Deal with it.

Originally posted by jumpmann
You're name is funny.

Deal with it.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
At what ? .... there's nothing to laugh at except your ignorance to whom Descartes is, and that isn't funny.

It's "funny" in that Descartes was a hack whose contributions to philosophy and the development of science, while useful in their day, is basically worthless.

Of all the intellectuals throughout history, Descartes is in the bottom ten of who I'd choose a name after.

I for one am excited about the upcoming Superman storyline; especially with the Brainiac "Oppression" teaser poster we've been seeing. Hopefully it'll involve this unknown threat within the Phantom Zone.

Personally I always hated Doomsday. He was a plot device created to have the "Death of Superman" arc to increase sales during a particularly bad point in DC's economic history. All his more recent back story just seems kind of shoe-horned in and silly.

Originally posted by tjcoady
It's "funny" in that Descartes was a hack whose contributions to philosophy and the development of science, while useful in their day, is basically worthless.

Of all the intellectuals throughout history, Descartes is in the bottom ten of who I'd choose a name after.

I for one am excited about the upcoming Superman storyline; especially with the Brainiac "Oppression" teaser poster we've been seeing. Hopefully it'll involve this unknown threat within the Phantom Zone.

Personally I always hated Doomsday. He was a plot device created to have the "Death of Superman" arc to increase sales during a particularly bad point in DC's economic history. All his more recent back story just seems kind of shoe-horned in and silly.

He's no more silly than most of the characters Johns has rejuvenated during his runs on Green Lantern, the Flash and JSA. I mean the Rogues where a joke before he took over the flash, now look at them.

I challenge you to come up with a greater contribution to philosophy than the Cogito. Also moder Philosophy was basically created by Descartes. Remembering him for his mistakes is as retarded as Remembering Newton for Alchemy, or Albert Einstein for failing school.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
He's no more silly than most of the characters Johns has rejuvenated during his runs on Green Lantern, the Flash and JSA. I mean the Rogues where a joke before he took over the flash, now look at them.

I challenge you to come up with a greater contribution to philosophy than the Cogito. Also moder Philosophy was basically created by Descartes. Remembering him for his mistakes is as retarded as Remembering Newton for Alchemy, or Albert Einstein for failing school.

Retardedness for the win..........

'I challenge you to tickle my hard on over Descartes by mentioning adversial methods so i can use every logical fallacy in the book that i learnt in freshmans philosophy 101 to prove my crazied fanboyism for Descartes'.



gb2 reading your first year books and prepping for your exams.

Originally posted by GGS
Retardedness for the win..........

'I challenge you to tickle my hard on over Descartes by mentioning adversial methods so i can use every logical fallacy in the book that i learnt in freshmans philosophy 101 to prove my crazied fanboyism for Descartes'.



gb2 reading your first year books and prepping for your exams.

Ummm none of that made any sense ....

are you guys actually going to talk about the comic, or just continue a pointless argument about some philosopher?

last action issue was great, imo...

Originally posted by Raoul
last action issue was great, imo...
I really liked it too. I love John's ability to reinvent/revitalize villains. I'm really psyched for Brainy and he didn't even do anything this issue except stand there and look cool.

Originally posted by Raoul
are you guys actually going to talk about the comic, or just continue a pointless argument about some philosopher?

last action issue was great, imo...

Cosigned. I'm psyched up like crazy.

i do wonder why he takes a very, i dunno, sort of, superman movies-esque scenario when dealing with the daily planet... sure there's the cat grant boob bit and the chair being hv'd, but it all seemed so... i dunno...

anyways, not that it was bad, and it wasnt, it looks like its going to be awesome, and i loved the flashback to krypton...

Originally posted by Raoul
i do wonder why he takes a very, i dunno, sort of, superman movies-esque scenario when dealing with the daily planet... sure there's the cat grant boob bit and the chair being hv'd, but it all seemed so... i dunno...

anyways, not that it was bad, and it wasnt, it looks like its going to be awesome, and i loved the flashback to krypton... Johns whole run on Action has had the movie feel, also exentuated by the fact that Donnor helped him a lot and they tossed ideas back and forth. It's probably a good thing though. This is how most casual fans know the characters. I've loved every bit of it.

Originally posted by Juntai
Johns whole run on Action has had the movie feel, also exentuated by the fact that Donnor helped him a lot and they tossed ideas back and forth. It's probably a good thing though. This is how most casual fans know the characters. I've loved every bit of it.

yeah, it has been a regular thing... and frank's superman looking like christopher reeve only adds to the effect... i just dont want him to go too far with it... i mean, its still supposed to be a modern superman...

probably worrying about nothing, though...

Johnathan and Martha Kent got a page to themselves...incoming death.

Actions Comics lately has been amazing. I'm The Legion Arc probably hits people different ways but being fans of the characters I loved it, and 866 is Johns' Superman issue yet.

And having Frank draw Christopher Reeves is perfect for me. Reeves performance transcended the character and it will always be the iconic image of Superman.

assuming one'll go, smart money's on the dad, imo... given johns affection for the donner movies, and the pages in JLA #0 a year or two back, i don't think he'll last much longer...

seriously how many times has pa kent died??? If they're gonna kill him at least stick with and don't bring him back and then kill him at a later point. At this point if Supes cries it doesn't matter at all.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
seriously how many times has pa kent died???
Once.

Originally posted by Raoul
assuming one'll go, smart money's on the dad, imo... given johns affection for the donner movies, and the pages in JLA #0 a year or two back, i don't think he'll last much longer...
Yeah I just found that issue and would not bet against Pa Kent after reading it. He was dead pre Crisis too, still not really sure why they rezzed him. Superman mythology is better with him gone anyway.

any particular reason why?

More traditional Superman. His death is suppose to have profound effect on Clark Kent's decision to leave Smallville and become Superman. Tragedy shapes heroes, but current Superman faced little to none growing up.

I like Ma Kent in Superman 1 portrayal.

Questions: Has there been a retcon involving Kandor that I missed? What happened to the one that Superman had?

Comments: This story has been really cool so far, and I'm psyched for the real Brainiac. It seems like Pa Kent is seriously going to get the axe pretty soon.

bump