Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Weapons and webs are not permitted.

Fight takes place in NYC

Who wins?

Cap.

Cap should take this, Spiderman speed, reflexes
wont be enough

Cap

Cap 6/10

errm idk. SM keeps his distance he should be okay. SM 7/10

spiderman has his own style which is not hand to hand thus steve has the advantage. If Spidey fights his own style then hed be ok

Close. 5/10 either way.

Spiderman.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
errm idk. SM keeps his distance he should be okay. SM 7/10

Not really Cap has studied his style.

Captain america would exploit the spider sense FTW

Spiderman without a doubt!

Spider-Man takes this. Cap should not be able to beat him for the majority. Spider-Man is superior to Cap. SM 8/10.

Originally posted by jadervason
Captain america would exploit the spider sense FTW

....How?

Yeah, come on kids. Class 15. Greater durability. Greater speed. Pre-cog. Even if he just stands still and boxes Cap or something, skill advantage alone doesn't account for all that. Every punch of his would be like 40 of Cap's given his greater strength and Cap's relatively lower durability (especially sans shield).

Fighting to a victor in a KMC thread isn't the same as a 3-page fight where plot is more important than the fight, one or both are likely pulling punches, and nothing is ever actually decided.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, come on kids. Class 15. Greater durability. Greater speed. Pre-cog. Even if he just stands still and boxes Cap or something, skill advantage alone doesn't account for all that. Every punch of his would be like 40 of Cap's given his greater strength and Cap's relatively lower durability (especially sans shield).

Fighting to a victor in a KMC thread isn't the same as a 3-page fight where plot is more important than the fight, one or both are likely pulling punches, and nothing is ever actually decided. Agreed.

Don't forget what a no holding back Peter did to Fisk.......

I agree with Digi and Bada.

Spiderman ftw

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, come on kids. Class 15. Greater durability. Greater speed. Pre-cog. Even if he just stands still and boxes Cap or something, skill advantage alone doesn't account for all that. Every punch of his would be like 40 of Cap's given his greater strength and Cap's relatively lower durability (especially sans shield).

Fighting to a victor in a KMC thread isn't the same as a 3-page fight where plot is more important than the fight, one or both are likely pulling punches, and nothing is ever actually decided.

Didnt Spiderman say something to the effect that Cap fights without thinking thus his spider sense struggles against him?

(maybe I dreamt that)

Originally posted by tkitna
Didnt Spiderman say something to the effect that Cap fights without thinking thus his spider sense struggles against him?

(maybe I dreamt that)

That wouldn't effect his spider sense, if he did say that, it's bad writing.

SM for the win.

lol fights without thinking thats awesome!!

Originally posted by tkitna
Didnt Spiderman say something to the effect that Cap fights without thinking thus his spider sense struggles against him?

(maybe I dreamt that)

I don't know about that. It doesn't work like that, lets say Spider-Man is in a building that's about to blow. The bomb the doesn't have a brain, Spider-Man's SS would still go off. It's the danger around him, not the mind. That be more like TP.

Hey, like I said, I wasnt sure and i'm probably wrong. I admit defeat.

My statement came from when Spiderman had that armor suit around Civil War when he and Cap fought. I'll have to reread it. Sorry.

Anyways, Spiderman should win with his advantages even though Cap is a much better fighter.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really Cap has studied his style.

Pretty much. Peter a super genius and yet even he admitted he could study the art of combat for 100 years and still not be good as Captain America.

This is how ridiculous good guys like Daredevil and Cap are. And with Peters more sense of holding back.....Cap holds back but not as much as Peter. I just see Parker losing the majority.

Originally posted by tkitna
Hey, like I said, I wasnt sure and i'm probably wrong. I admit defeat.

My statement came from when Spiderman had that armor suit around Civil War when he and Cap fought. I'll have to reread it. Sorry.

Anyways, Spiderman should win with his advantages even though Cap is a much better fighter.

I have to reread it as well. I don't remember that part and it was a good story.

Spider-Man, marginally.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Pretty much. Peter a super genius and yet even he admitted he could study the art of combat for 100 years and still not be good as Captain America.

This is how ridiculous good guys like Daredevil and Cap are. And with Peters more sense of holding back.....Cap holds back but not as much as Peter. I just see Parker losing the majority.

Being able to perform MA, Spider-Man may not be good at. That doesn't mean that he won't beat Cap in fight for the majority. You don't have to know MA to be a good fighter.

Doesnt peter have a pretty bad record against street levelers?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Doesnt peter have a pretty bad record against street levelers?

No

Originally posted by Mindset
No

Really?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Doesnt peter have a pretty bad record against street levelers?

Spiderman record isn't superior against them thats for sure.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Being able to perform MA, Spider-Man may not be good at. That doesn't mean that he won't beat Cap in fight for the majority. You don't have to know MA to be a good fighter.

Didn't say you do have to know MA to be a good fighter. His Spidermans stats and powers make up for that.

But his stats isn't enough IMO against a low level enhanced and skilled fighter. Especially considering Parker holds back more so then Cap leads me to say. Cap wins the majority IMO.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Didn't say you do have to know MA to be a good fighter. His Spidermans stats and powers make up for that.

But his stats isn't enough IMO against a low level enhanced and skilled fighter. Especially considering Parker holds back more so then Cap leads me to say. Cap wins the majority IMO.

Cap and spiderman both fight without thinking, in different ways. One can turn it off. If cap can overwhelm peter's spider sense ala mysterio he pwns, otherwise he gets wore out.

Originally posted by Marvelknight


Your entitled to your opinion. But there matches so far have Cap "having" the advantage.

Oh wait your that batman fan who thinks Batman can match Cap in strength and speed. LOL........yeah sure.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Your entitled to your opinion. But there matches so far have Cap "having" the advantage.

Oh wait your that batman fan who thinks Batman can match Cap in strength and speed. LOL........yeah sure.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, come on kids. Class 15. Greater durability. Greater speed. Pre-cog. Even if he just stands still and boxes Cap or something, skill advantage alone doesn't account for all that. Every punch of his would be like 40 of Cap's given his greater strength and Cap's relatively lower durability (especially sans shield).

Fighting to a victor in a KMC thread isn't the same as a 3-page fight where plot is more important than the fight, one or both are likely pulling punches, and nothing is ever actually decided.

Originally posted by Badabing
Agreed.

Don't forget what a no holding back Peter did to Fisk.......

Cap smacks spideys ass down.

Didn't spiderman pretty much admit cap would take him in H2H, even if the fight was cut short and/or written for a good story?

Spidey admitting Cap could take him in H2H and needing to create "distance" between him and cap is pretty solid evidence.

Not saying either combatant would take the majority, but it will not be a stomp for either side.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Didn't spiderman pretty much admit cap would take him in H2H, even if the fight was cut short and/or written for a good story?

Spidey admitting Cap could take him in H2H and needing to create "distance" between him and cap is pretty solid evidence.

Not saying either combatant would take the majority, but it will not be a stomp for either side.

Luckily this fight is not happening in the comics where they bring Spiderman's level down and Cap's up.

Originally posted by Mindset
Luckily this fight is not happening in the comics where they bring Spiderman's level down and Cap's up.

Yet, in spidermans history he has consistently had problems with street levelers.

Not just this one fight.....

Originally posted by Mindset
Luckily this fight is not happening in the comics where they bring Spiderman's level down and Cap's up.


No this fight is hand to hand. No weapons and in New York. This fight happens by our decisions from the comics.

So thats really not much of a point.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
No this fight is hand to hand. No weapons and in New York. This fight happens by our decisions from the comics.

So thats really not much of a point.

Yes, it is. You're using a couple pages from one issue of a comic where the fight didn't even finish, and Spiderman was too busy admiring Cap ti show any skill to show Cap wins.

If that's not your proof then what are you using?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Yet, in spidermans history he has consistently had problems with street levelers.

Not just this one fight.....

For instance?

Originally posted by Mindset
For instance?

?

Dude, name a major street leveler and he's more then likely given spiderman problems and/or has beaten him.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yes, it is. You're using a couple pages from one issue of a comic where the fight didn't even finish, and Spiderman was too busy admiring Cap ti show any skill to show Cap wins.

If that's not your proof then what are you using?


There scuffles and both Cap had the advantage.

Yes your right they did not end and no one won, to either please both sides of the fans or such, but Marvel has shown Cap to have a small edge in there fights.

Thats what I'm using.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
?

Dude, name a major street leveler and he's more then likely given spiderman problems and/or has beaten him.



So in other words you don't have any examples?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
There scuffles and both Cap had the advantage.

Yes your right they did not end and no one won, to either please both sides of the fans or such, but Marvel has shown Cap to have a small edge in there fights.

Thats what I'm using.

What scuffles, when else did they fight?

Originally posted by Mindset
What scuffles, when else did they fight?


They've had some scuffles in there past encounters.

One was in the past as Spiderman attacking Cap. As Cap blocked with his shield and then punched Spiderman down. Spiderman commented that Cap punches as if he has mini a-bombs in his fists as he's dizzy on the ground. Spiderman leaves immediately as no one won the fight but Cap a very small advantage.


The other was very brief in civil war with Spidey hitting Cap with his own shield. As then Cap uppercut Spiderman. Then Ironman interfered. The fight was a tie.

Third fight happened in Spideys own book again Civil war with Cap having a small advantage. As Cap landed the physcial hits with Spiderman just getting a small scratch on Cap.

Again no one wonbut Cap had the small advantage IMO. I'll get you issue numbers later.

I remember all but the first one you mentioned.

During Civil War Spiderman never wanted to fight Cap, while Cap did temporarily a have small advantages, Spiderman didn't even fight like he usually does, at least it didn't look that way to me.

Like I said, they bring Spiderman's level of fighting ability down.

Originally posted by Mindset
I remember all but the first one you mentioned.

During Civil War Spiderman never wanted to fight Cap, while Cap did temporarily a have small advantages, Spiderman didn't even fight like he usually does, at least it didn't look that way to me.

Like I said, they bring Spiderman's level of fighting ability down.

Agreed. But not on KMC.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Agreed. But not on KMC.


And you would be wrong. Read the rules. I copied and paste them below.



"It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. "

Notice it states-
"Still within the character's personality."

If its within the character's personality to hold back or not give it there all. Its what is used for the standard.

Your the thread starter so its your fault for not indicating in your starting thread, that they will be fighting out of character to kill or in true blood lust.

Originally posted by Mindset
I remember all but the first one you mentioned.

During Civil War Spiderman never wanted to fight Cap, while Cap did temporarily a have small advantages, Spiderman didn't even fight like he usually does, at least it didn't look that way to me.

1. Cap didnt want to fight Spiderman either.
2. You do realise that Spiderman was upgraded. He had added protection, class 25 strength and his spidersense had improved and he didnt even hit Cap once...only with the mechanical arms and he does not have them in this fight.
3. A robot clone of Spiderman said he couldnt take Cap in H2H, the clone fought Spiderman it lost but it could have gone either way

Originally posted by Mindset

Like I said, they bring Spiderman's level of fighting ability down.

Prove it.


Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, come on kids. Class 15.

What good is that if he cant even hit Cap? Even if he can Cap can take some of his punches.


Originally posted by DigiMark007

Greater durability.

Which is not going to make a difference.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Greater speed.

Which isnt great enough to make a difference.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Pre-cog.

Cap has enhanced senses and his pre-cog is not good enough to make a difference.


Originally posted by DigiMark007

Even if he just stands still and boxes Cap or something, skill advantage alone doesn't account for all that.

Yeah it is.

1. Robot clone couldnt take him in H2H. Clone was not holding back
2. Civil War.

Originally posted by Badabing
Agreed.

Don't forget what a no holding back Peter did to Fisk.......

Has Fisk analysed Spidermans fighting style? Nope. Spiderman loses.

Spider-Man not holding back to molly whoop Captain America because mainly he is superior to peak humans more superior when peak human's are to normal humans

"Class 15"




"Greater durability"



"Greater speed"





... srsly? Even with Spiderman having the advantage in virtually every pracitcal way, he'd still lose only due to the fact that "Cap has analyzed his style"?

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
"Class 15"




"Greater durability"



"Greater speed"





... srsly?

Yes seriously. Cap was owning Spiderman in the civil war also a robot clone of Spiderman said he couldnt take Cap H2H.

Yes serioulsy the speed difference between Cap and Spiderman is not huge. Yes Cap is good enough to dodge alot of Spidermans punches and is durable enough to take some of his punches.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes seriously. Cap was owning Spiderman in the civil war also a robot clone of Spiderman said he couldnt take Cap H2H.

Yes serioulsy the speed difference between Cap and Spiderman is not huge. Yes Cap is good enough to dodge alot of Spidermans punches and is durable enough to take some of his punches.

No he is not durable enough to withstand Spidey punches with full force behind it. That is the most stupid statement I've ever heard. Spidey could rip him in half if he wanted to, more durable my ass. Cap doesn't have his shield. He isn't taking any kind hit from Spidey, with full force behind it. And robots will never be better than humans with great potential . They have limitations that humans can surpass. That was another stupid comment.

Speed. No Spiderman is faster but he can't overwhelm Cap with it. As seen in his fights with him. Plus Cap has nasty speed feats as well.




Speed/Agility

Cap outruns DiamondBack as we see Cap is so far he's just a spec on the page.
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5898/captainamerica319p16nt3.jpg
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3755/captainamerica319p17nz1.jpg

While Punisher runs up the stairs, Cap beats him to the top of the building.
http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherwarjournal66p12pj4.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherwarjournal66p13vl9.jpg

Cap runs past Daredevil like he's a breeze. DD attests that Cap is faster then himself.
http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil23314bt0.jpg

Ironfist states he has never faced anyone like Cap. Cap's speed is incredible as Danny states this.
http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironfist1207jd1.jpg

Cap hits a flying rammer up close as it was in mid-flight.
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/7015/captainamerica19312ii7.jpg

Catching a mid-flight Arrow.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4394/cap17906jd5.jpg

Cap moves quicker then a swirving van.
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4385/captainamerica35008va9.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3000/captainamerica35009ei5.jpg

Cap moves quicker then a thrown car by the superhuman Armadillo.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3396/captainamerica316p19tv4.jpg

These advanced tracking balls move quick as we see Cap can tag it.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/7725/captainamerica24803hb9.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8140/captainamerica24903xo6.jpg

Cap dodges lots of impact weapons.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4340/captainamerica386ocd04wr7.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2296/captainamerica386ocd05ji5.jpg
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/7664/captainamerica386ocd06mi5.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8152/captainamerica386ocd07hh2.jpg

Cap dodges bullets the second guy doesn't even bother trying from up close.(This scene I've always liked)
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6139/captainamerica253p04fw3.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/166/captainamerica253p05jf5.jpg

Cap blocking bullets after they were fired.
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9535/avgrs6916fv7.jpg

Cap blocks bullets with a shield throw. Notice the bullets were fired first.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7411/avengersv139614xh5.jpg

Cap dodges these bullets and then gets infront of them.
http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/451/avengersv300505ng4.jpg

Cap dodges bullets at point blank range.
http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/8299/ca14016ur2.jpg

Cap dodging bullets and explains he see's faster.
http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/9880/ca17014az4.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/269/ca17015lw0.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/742/ca17016np5.jpg

Cap dodging lots of bullets.
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4099/captainamerica34910wn5.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7605/captainamerica34912bw1.jpg

Cap slipping between bullets.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1950/captainamerica19903si4.jpg

Cap moving so fast they didn't even know were he went.
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7426/captainamericav48p15hgwrm4.jpg
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4567/captainamericav48p16hgwellsrh5.jpg

Cap moves so fast they couldn't fathom were he went.
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/4171/ca2105qq7.jpg

Again Cap moves so fast he's else where.
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7559/captainamericawhatpricecr2.jpg

Moving fast.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7016/ca2419fq3.jpg

Cap moves with the speed of his shield.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/360/captainamerica24102hp3.jpg

Again Cap moves so fast he's behind the shooter.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9020/10ts0.jpg

They can't get a bead on Cap.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5545/captainamerica24206zv3.jpg

The Shooters couldn't follow Cap as they were even ready.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8014/captainamerica449p19ls6.jpg

Cap strikes before shooters could do anything.
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/681/captainamerica322p18oh7.jpg

Cap hits the trip wires and jumps before explosion.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/574/21yu1.jpg

Cap impresses Quicksilver with his speed.
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8775/avengersv101707jx5.jpg

Cap fights a freak that compares Cap's speed to Quiksilver.(That same guy tagged QSilver.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1369/avengersv103716lx9.jpg

Cap counters Quicksilver.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2128/avengersv102203bf3.jpg

Cap dodges a speedster.
http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/207/avengers15309lc7.jpg

Again dodges a speedster.
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1818/avengersannual0824uz9.jpg

Cap tags the superfast Android(Who was able to keep up with Quicksilver)
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1868/avengers04518ft4.jpg

Again tags the Android.
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3378/avengers04515ti8.jpg

The Superfast Whirlwind.
http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/3881/avengers100004605xp1.jpg
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/4080/avengers100004608yn9.jpg
Cap tags Whirlwind.
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/447/avengers100004612mm9.jpg

Cap meets Punisher at the top of the building while Punisher goes up the stairs.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1553/punisherwarjournal66p12pj4.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/9960/punisherwarjournal66p13vl9.jpg

Cap goes through a training in 5 minutes. This same training was designed for Beast.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/159/avengersv125102on2.jpg
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4717/avengersv125103fa8.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/9783/avengersv125104nx7.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/891/avengersv125105dg7.jpg

Cap keeps up with Beast.
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/6199/captainamerica261p07ht8.jpg

Cap grabs the fast Puma in mid-leap.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1088/avengersv130421rv5.jpg

An atleantean can't keep up with Cap.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7503/captainamericavol411p07ae7.jpg

Cap caught up with the Mystical Superhuman Black crow as he reaches quickly the top.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9424/captainamerica292p18ht0.jpg

Cap runs through before Nazis can do anything.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5/captainamerica0535ud9.jpg

This entire army can't even scratch Cap, as Cap even escaped the explosions leaving them in the dust.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1084/captainamerica454p18andku4.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5515/captainamerica454p20cy6.jpg

Cap avoids tons of stars from a being that got the upperhand on the SilverSurfer.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6587/avengers21615vf7.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4285/avengers21616aj4.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8559/avengers21617cp4.jpg

Typical Cap blocking a energy beam aimed at his upper body.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3733/avengersv103202rg7.jpg

Dodging beams.
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1327/captainamerica35119uw4.jpg
Cap rolls with a energy beam.
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2041/captainamerica26717uk6.jpg

Cap dodging beams while falling.
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4413/captainamerica26604ff3.jpg

Cap with metal glove blocks random energy beams, definitely fast hand speed.
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers17004yb3.jpg

Cap dodges beams unders zero gravity.
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123516rougherpv4.jpg
http://img421.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123518rougherbg7.jpg

Cap blocks mulitple beams in different areas.
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv300506mm5.jpg

Again blocks mulitiple beams in different areas.
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv300807tk8.jpg

Cap trapped in a floor designed to spin with beams coming from all direction.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6793/avengersv103217or6.jpg
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4910/avengersv103218yi9.jpg

Cap in volume 3 dodging beams again.
http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav303913jt7.jpg

Cap's durability is up there as well.

Durability

Cap handles this nuclear furnace.
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav303808ue2.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav303809jx2.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav303810oh7.jpg

Survives a big explosion.
http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca24015cz1.jpg

Without shield survives a extreme high airplane crash.
http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica20704co4.jpg
http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica20705lx5.jpg

Jumps out of helicopter leaves small foot craters on ground.
http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page30wa0.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page31tq3.jpg

Jumps out of helicopter onto vehicle.
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherbloodglory0335ct8.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherbloodglory0336ch8.jpg

High quint-jet fall strikes Onslaught on the way down.
http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img005zk2.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img006lc4.jpg

Cap falls, notice the Quinjet is close to the buildings height.
http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=36314bd8.jpg

Cap falls, releases from parachute.
http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca06017ik1.jpg

Another release from parachute.
http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericadmr1of303kn7.jpg

Cap jumps off a building through the glass of another building and lands on the ground of the the second building.
http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca24006fn4.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca24007dp5.jpg

High building fall.
http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav5019pageln3.jpg

Building fall.
http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericavol407p06ro2.jpg

Cap falls from two or three hundred feet before crashing in the ocean.
http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica38802mf5.jpg
http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica38803mw4.jpg

Falls off a building to the top of another building.
http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica1999p33qs9.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica1999p34pg9.jpg

Fall from a high-Shield building.
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil23324qg5.jpg
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil23325kt0.jpg

Building jump to another.
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2984/captainamericaiii25p17la0.jpg

Nasty elevator crash.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3016/captainamericav303317mr1.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5962/captainamericav303318ou5.jpg

Leaps out of a crashing plane into the ocean.
http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica42315it3.jpg

Insane fall traveling over 100 mph, lands on the hard Thing Ben Grimm.
http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strangetales160101zn8.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strangetales161021pm3.jpg

Fall into ocean.
http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica449p11eu6.jpg

Canon ball crash into ocean.
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=talesofsuspense08421hv2.jpg
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=talesofsuspense08422gv3.jpg

Falls ontop of a Shield Sub?
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaandthefalng2.jpg

Gets hit by a vehicle going 40 mph, doesn't hurt him much.
http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica34013xz4.jpg
Survives being crushed by Dragon Man.
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica24901on7.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica24902ej8.jpg

Entire building falls down as Cap, as the Red Scull uses Cap's durable body as the wrecking ball "ouch".
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca320405tm4.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca3206zu8.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca3209jj1.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca3210dy2.jpg
http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca3211aj9.jpg
http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca3212ti2.jpg
http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca3213of7.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca3214co6.jpg
http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca3215uc1.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca3216pz3.jpg

Cap takes a nasty beating from Namor.
http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica42315jw4.jpg
http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica42316ul0.jpg
http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica42317ug9.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica42318xb5.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica42319ic5.jpg

Cap takes a nasty beating from a blood lusted Ironman.
http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0918to3.jpg
http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0919zm0.jpg
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0921tj0.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0923ax6.jpg

Even worse from Spiderman/Ironman and then some.
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0020ke1.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0021rz1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0022nz4.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0006hc1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0007nc4.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0008dd0.jpg

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
"Class 15"




"Greater durability"



"Greater speed"





... srsly? Even with Spiderman having the advantage in virtually every pracitcal way, he'd still lose only due to the fact that "Cap has analyzed his style"?


Analyzed his style.....not just that. Cap's is superior in skill. and Parker holds back. That is why Cap has had the advantage on him in the past.

All hail Captain lol ... damn i knew he was good but not that good.

Also something else thats not being considered.

Cap has defeated Spiderman rogues. All of whom don't hold back and have defeated Spiderman. Now does this constitutes for Cap winning against Spiderman.........No. I've already given my reason why Cap wins.

And thats because Parker holds back and Cap has "superior skill". But Cap has defeated Scorpion, Tarantuala, Doc Octopus, and even Rhino. He can because he's that skilled. Now Spiderman has beat these guys as well but so has Cap.

Rhino was the most difficult as in he outwitted him and used the environment as they fight continued underground with low-oxygen and Rhino fatigued and struggled to breath.....while Caps stamina and oxygen was just fine. This show how impressive Cap's body from its internal is impressive even in comparison to a powerhouse like Rhino.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
All hail Captain lol ... damn i knew he was good but not that good.


He's superior to great athletes like Daredevil and Batman. But I'm not going to lie. In Stats Spiderman is Cap's "superior".

But the rules state the characters shall fight while "in character" and Spidey is his own worst enemy as he holds back more so then most and respects Cap more then most.

Now if this was a blood-lust fight(out of character.) Spiderman I'll give him the majority for 7-8/10. But even that fight Cap will give him problems.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Also something else thats not being considered.

Cap has defeated Spiderman rogues. All of whom don't hold back and have defeated Spiderman. Now does this constitutes for Cap winning against Spiderman.........No. I've already given my reason why Cap wins.

And thats because Parker holds back and Cap has "superior skill". But Cap has defeated Scorpion, Tarantuala, Doc Octopus, and even Rhino. He can because he's that skilled. Now Spiderman has beat these guys as well but so has Cap.

Rhino was the most difficult as in he outwitted him and used the environment as they fight continued underground with low-oxygen and Rhino fatigued and struggled to breath.....while Caps stamina and oxygen was just fine. This show how impressive Cap's body from its internal is impressive even in comparison to a powerhouse like Rhino.

just a random question, i was debating with my friend in the other thread and I want to know, you think BAtman can win against Cap w/ standard equipment. And what would happen for the result of the fight if bats took the SSS and had standard equipment will he be able to beat cap?

Posting a respect thread isn't debating. It's also insulting to think most people aren't familiar with both characters, or couldn't look them up themselves. 1-2 of his best = acceptable. 30-40 = childish.

I said my piece on page 1, and don't feel like reiterating, but at the moment this thread has the maturity level of a 5th grader from quite a few parties involved. At least try to use reason and be respectful. Otherwise, threads like this justify a lot of the bad stuff people say about teh vs. forum.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
just a random question, i was debating with my friend in the other thread and I want to know, you think BAtman can win against Cap w/ standard equipment. And what would happen for the result of the fight if bats took the SSS and had standard equipment will he be able to beat cap?


With standard equipment IMO, its a toss-up 5/10. But of course I'm going to go with Cap. Since I am a Cap fan.

Bats with the SSS and standard equipment will get the majority IMO.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Posting a respect thread isn't debating. It's also insulting to think most people aren't familiar with both characters, or couldn't look them up themselves. 1-2 of his best = acceptable. 30-40 = childish.

I said my piece on page 1, and don't feel like reiterating, but at the moment this thread has the maturity level of a 5th grader from quite a few parties involved. At least try to use reason and be respectful. Otherwise, threads like this justify a lot of the bad stuff people say about teh vs. forum.


No it isn't debating put it lets others see as even Lord Feron is now more knowledgable.

I think your mathematical equation of 1-2 is acceptable and 30-40 is childish. That type of thinking is childish and immature IMO.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
No it isn't debating put it lets others see as even Lord Feron is now more knowledgable.

I think your mathematical equation of 1-2 is acceptable and 30-40 is childish. That type of thinking is childish and immature IMO.

Why? See, you're entitled to your opinion, but should really provide reasoning for it. Maybe your issue with my opinion is valid, but at least I said why with mine.

But I'd really rather not get into a flame war with you. There's not much point to it, and it was intended as constructive criticism, not demeaning insult. I don't have a problem with you, or those who think Cap would win, I just don't like seeing sub-par debating and insults being thrown around when none are needed.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
With standard equipment IMO, its a toss-up 5/10. But of course I'm going to go with Cap. Since I am a Cap fan.

Bats with the SSS and standard equipment will get the majority IMO.

K thanks!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Why? See, you're entitled to your opinion, but should really provide reasoning for it. Maybe your issue with my opinion is valid, but at least I said why with mine.

But I'd really rather not get into a flame war with you. There's not much point to it, and it was intended as constructive criticism, not demeaning insult. I don't have a problem with you, or those who think Cap would win, I just don't like seeing sub-par debating and insults being thrown around when none are needed.


Say what you will. But even before the scans got posted you stated.


Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, come on kids.

To be little even if you meant by joking. I don't want to get into a flame war with you either. I hope no one does. But just calling it how I see it as well.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
K thanks!



Your welcome. But the scans I thank the poster Saotome on another forum.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Say what you will. But even before the scans got posted you stated.




To be little even if you meant by joking. I don't want to get into a flame war with you either. I hope no one does. But just calling it how I see it as well.

I use the term kids all the time, usually when doing mod stuff but it leaks into my normal speech (I'm a teacher, so it's part of my daily repertoire of phrases). Heck, I call adults that sometimes for comedic value. How is it an insult? I can understand not liking to be insulted, but there's a difference between than and just being overly sensitive.

And you're also likely seeing the whole comment as directed toward you. The part about insults and such was directed in general, because we had a lot of "nuh-uh, yuh-huh" style stuff, and implying that anyone who thought otherwise was not smart. The only part of that comment that was directed at you was the comment about posting a ton of scans. I'm here to make things better, even if it involves criticism...and not to insult anyone.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I use the term kids all the time, usually when doing mod stuff but it leaks inot my normal speech (I'm a teacher, so it's part of my daily repertoire of phrases). Heck, I call adults that sometimes for comedic value. How is it an insult? I can understand not liking to be insulted, but there's a difference between than and just being overly sensitive.

And you're also likely seeing the whole comment as directed toward you. The part about insults and such was directed in general, because we had a lot of "nuh-uh, yuh-huh" style stuff, and implying that anyone who thought otherwise was not smart. The only part of that comment that was directed at you was the comment about posting a ton of scans.


Thank you for admitting its too me. I guess you ignore the other poster who posted more then 5 scans of Spidey and nothing towards him. He posted 26 scan links of Spidey but you target the Cap fan. Wheres that on your mathematical equation.

Calling me Kid can be taken as a insult. And you calling me childish and immature is a insult.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Thank you for admitting its too me. I guess you ignore the other poster who posted more then 5 scans of Spidey and nothing towards him. He posted 26 scan links of Spidey but you target the Cap fan. Wheres that on your mathematical equation.

Calling me Kid can be taken as a insult. And you calling me childish and immature is a insult.

Well, I thought it was. Like I said, force-feeding us numerous scans of Cap when most are quite familiar with him is a bit condescending, especially when 1-2 would suffice. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, though I already clarified that while I agree with those comments it's intended as criticism but not personal insults. Though as for the first part, I didn't call you a kid. That was earlier, not intended toward anyone in particular, and also intended as light humor. Deciding it wasn't intended as that doesn't change that fact...or are we taking a consequentialist stance and judging actions by their consequences rather than their intentions? I'm sorry you feel insulted by it, but I can't say I'd do anything differently because none was intended.

Also, I didn't see the other scans you were talking about. I can't really defend myself there because it's an invalid attack on me in the first place. I can't be everywhere at once, and it's also citing another person's post to justify your own....it doesn't actually refute my original gripe. Why are you continuing this anyway?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Well, I thought it was. Like I said, force-feeding us numerous scans of Cap when most are quite familiar with him is a bit condescending, especially when 1-2 would suffice. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, though I already clarified that while I agree with those comments it's intended as criticism but not personal insults. Though as for the first part, I didn't call you a kid. That was earlier, not intended toward anyone in particular, and also intended as light humor. Deciding it wasn't intended as that doesn't change that fact...or are we taking a consequentialist stance and judging actions by their consequences rather than their intentions? I'm sorry you feel insulted by it, but I can't say I'd do anything differently because none was intended.

Also, I didn't see the other scans you were talking about. I can't really defend myself there because it's an invalid attack on me in the first place. I can't be everywhere at once, and it's also citing another person's post to justify your own....it doesn't actually refute my original gripe. Why are you continuing this anyway?


I think the above answers everything I need to say. Continue believing what you want. Others see and read.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
No he is not durable enough to withstand Spidey punches with full force behind it. That is the most stupid statement I've ever heard. Spidey could rip him in half if he wanted to, more durable my ass. Cap doesn't have his shield. He isn't taking any kind hit from Spidey, with full force behind it. And robots will never be better than humans with great potential . They have limitations that humans can surpass. That was another stupid comment.


This just sums up this thread, "Nu -uh I dont think so'". I dont even think I can be bothered to argue you guys basically dont know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap's is superior in skill. and Parker holds back. That is why Cap has had the advantage on him in the past.

Dont forget the robot clone of Spiderman that was not holding back.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I don't have a problem with you, or those who think Cap would win, I just don't like seeing sub-par debating and insults being thrown around when none are needed.

Robot clone of Spiderman could not take Cap in H2H? With all due respect that deserves a response.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
This just sums up this thread, "Nu -uh I dont think so'". I dont even think I can be bothered to argue you guys basically dont know what you're talking about.

We do know what we are talking about, you're not in-touch with reality. You try to bring up rules about they're "fighting in-character", that's weak and desperate. And most of all, it doesn't make any sense. This vs forum where he are given the power (god-like) to take any character from any universe and make battle each other. There is nothing holding them back and no pis. they are going to have either one of two attitudes going into this. I'm going to do my best and get it over with or I'm going to kick his/her f***ing ass. And anytime Spidey wants to kick someone f***ing ass, it gets done. DigiMark007, said it best and I completely agree with him. And I fully agree with Mindset, that Spidey skills are lowered. There way that Cap should land a single hit on Spidey. Nor should he take any attack from Spidey when he's not holding back. Consider what he is capable of when he is pissed off. Even when comparing their feats, it not even completely the same. Spidey is on another level all together. Cap does not dodge bullets to the same degree as Spider-Man nor is he anywhere near his level of speed, agility, and reflexes. Spidey stomps all over him in this battle.

Spidey takes this 8/10.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Robot clone of Spiderman could not take Cap in H2H? With all due respect that deserves a response.

With the same respect, what you quoted of mine wasn't even a point for Spidey. It was part of my discussion with DD. I haven't actually been debating in this thread after offering my two cents on page one.

So maybe someone else will field it, and I'm sure it's a valid point that should be addressed, but I'm not really a fan of vs. threads for the most part and actually don't know the incident you're referring to, so I wouldn't be the best qualified to answer it anyway.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I think the above answers everything I need to say. Continue believing what you want. Others see and read.

K.

srug

As digi said earlier, copy and pasting scans from a respect thread is not debating. Most people in this thread have debated on this forum for a decent length of time so most of us are very familiar with what the characters are and are not capable of.

We all know that spiderman is stronger, more durable and more agile then cap; with cap being infinitely more skilled. Spidey could put cap down in a but a few well placed blows, and cap could just as easily disable spiderman with but a few well place nerve strikes. (Hell even one well placed nerve strike could disable spiderman to the point where the fight is effectively over)

Basically, either combatant has the ability to end the fight rather quickly. I believe the only thing that should matter is speed and reaction time; who will be able to get the first blows in?

Spiderman is 15 times more agile then normal humans however this does not equate to being 15 times faster.

Spiderman has been shown in the past to have problems against street levelers in H2H. There are times when he has made them look foolish, and there are times when he has looked foolish, and most top streetlevers have victory's or have gotten the better of spiderman, some multiple times. Some may argue he pulls his punches, but pulling your punches is still no excuse for getting tagged in the face as much as spiderman does, I mean if he does have superior speed in all, why couldn't he just keep dodging right?

The only plausible median is Spiderman is not much faster (reaction and speed wise) then most top street levelers, I mean if they are able to hang and keep up with him consistently, I don't see how anyone can say "OMG Spiderman is so fast cap will be standing still" when in fact comics has shown us otherwise.

Is spiderman faster then cap, sure he is, i have no problem admitting that. Is he so fast that cap will not be able to cope with it, HELL NO. Just because spidey dodges bullets with a triple hand spring doesn't make caps dodging feats any less. Hell I could say Cap dodges bullets more efficiently to waste less energy and move in much faster to his target.

Cap has already study Pete's style, he already knows how Pete fights. Cap may not be as fast as Pete but he is definitely fast enough to keep up. Couple this with caps immense skill advantage and we have one hell of a fight.

The fight would not last but a few seconds, either combatant has the ability to end the fight quick. I just think that since spidey has outright admitted cap was better them him in H2H, Pete's going to have problems.

People can say spidey is so much faster all they want but again cap, black panther, wolverine, daredevil and others have proven otherwise.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
People can say spidey is so much faster all they want but again cap, black panther, wolverine, daredevil and others have proven otherwise.

I don't know that anyone questions this. But I'd only agree with saying they've proven otherwise if by proven we mean that they are in Spidey's league and able to compete with him, not > Spidey in speed/reflexes/agility. Pete wouldn't be running circles around him...far from it. But he does have every edge, some greater than others, besides skill of course. To argue otherwise would just be false. The question, probably largely subjective, then becomes to what extent would Cap's H2H skill negate Pete's strength, slight speed edge, and durability advantage.

I, and I would assume most of the other Spidey supporters, are of the mind that Pete wouldn't have to land nearly as many blows to put Cap down, so even if the punch/kick total is heavily in Cap's favor, he's more likely to fall, given the amount of damage Pete has taken before and Cap's lower durability mixed with Pete's strength.

Also lost, imo, is the fact that Cap's ability to take punishment stems in part from his shield, which he doesn't have for this fight. He wields it masterfully, but it's pretty much the reason he can hold his own against opponents that are >>> he is. Pete's webs aren't nearly the loss that Cap's shield is in this fight.

...

I look at it like this. I have no training in any sort of fighting. But if you pitted me against a skilled martial artist, and told me that I'd be given 15x his strength, maybe 1.5x durability, and 1.5x speed (cautious estimates imo), I'd happily take it and consider myself the favorite in the fight. He'd hit me lots, and it would hurt. Beating me wouldn't be impossible, and he might experience his way to a few wins out of 10. But I'd still like my chances the vast majority of the time.

It isn't just that Spiderman is faster, more agile and stronger, he also has his spider-sense. Unfortunately, writers have made this sense somewhat into a plot device: depending on what the story calls for, Spiderman sometimes senses danger (including individual blows), sometimes not. Then again, Spidey's physical prowess has varied quite a bit too, depending on where that particular story is going and who his nemesis is.

At their best, I don't see Cap laying a finger on Spiderman, while Spiderman could land a real haymaker. Cap's main advantage will be his knowing how Spiderman tends to fight and applying skill accordingly.

Lastly, Spiderman is not exactly a slouch when it comes to tactical fighting. He'll have had experience as well fighting Cap and realize what he has to do and avoid.

Spiderman 2/3

Originally posted by Mindship
It isn't just that Spiderman is faster, more agile and stronger, he also has his spider-sense. Unfortunately, writers have made this sense somewhat into a plot device: depending on what the story calls for, Spiderman sometimes senses danger (including individual blows), sometimes not. Then again, Spidey's physical prowess has varied quite a bit too, depending on where that particular story is going and who his nemesis is.

At their best, I don't see Cap laying a finger on Spiderman, while Spiderman could land a real haymaker. Cap's main advantage will be his knowing how Spiderman tends to fight and applying skill accordingly.

Lastly, Spiderman is not exactly a slouch when it comes to tactical fighting. He'll have had experience as well fighting Cap and realize what he has to do and avoid.

Spiderman 2/3

Originally posted by DigiMark007

I look at it like this. I have no training in any sort of fighting. But if you pitted me against a skilled martial artist, and told me that I'd be given 15x his strength, maybe 1.5x durability, and 1.5x speed (cautious estimates imo), I'd happily take it and consider myself the favorite in the fight. He'd hit me lots, and it would hurt. Beating me wouldn't be impossible, and he might experience his way to a few wins out of 10. But I'd still like my chances the vast majority of the time.

And I believe that's what most spidey backers believe. But sadly, that's just not the case when it comes to cap. Think about it like this, you said you would be given all those abilities against a skilled martial artist; however calling cap just a "Skilled" martial artist is downplaying what he really is.

Take every athletic world record we have in the world today and give them all to one man, then take those athletic abilities and increase them even more. After that, give this man the ability to master a entire style of martial arts in a few days, and the fighting ability and all of the worlds greatest marital artist combined...x2.

After that give this man the tactical genius of nearly every military commander in history, not the mention the tactical minds of the greatest martial artist mentioned above.

And finally give him near unlimited stamina.....

After all that, we might be in the realm of what cap really is in comics.

On top of that this man would not have to hit you lots of times, one nerve strike and your superior stats and abilities that you were so heavily leaning on are now cut in half if not more.

I understand wholeheartedly what you are trying to say, spideys abilities are so far Superior to cap that they will make up for his lack of skill.

But that's exactly what guys like cap and bp want guys like pete to believe. They have every advantage in this fight, so why should they be worried about a mere human, even if he is skilled?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And I believe that's what most spidey backers believe. But sadly, that's just not the case when it comes to cap. Think about it like this, you said you would be given all those abilities against a skilled martial artist; however calling cap just a "Skilled" martial artist is downplaying what he really is.

You misunderstand. I'm not saying Cap is merely skilled. I realize he's more than that. But I feel like the percent gap between myself and a skilled MAist is analagous to Spidey/Cap, since it's not like thousands of fights didn't give Pete any skill. You took my analogy and applied it literally to the fight, in a way that skews it to seem like it's unfair to Cap. I don't believe it to be so. Saying a Skilled MAist = Cap is preposterous, but so is saying Digi = Spidey in skill.

Spider-Man has dodged bullets. Cap was killed by a bullet. End of discussion. Spidey is the fastar!!!

Originally posted by AngryManatee
Spider-Man has dodged bullets. Cap was killed by a bullet. End of discussion. Spidey is the fastar!!!
...
http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capdamanta2.jpg

Originally posted by Mindship
It isn't just that Spiderman is faster, more agile and stronger, he also has his spider-sense.

The gap isnt big enough to make a difference. Cap is capable of dodging a large number of Spidermans punches so for starters that doesnt even matter if hes stronger.

Originally posted by Mindship

Unfortunately, writers have made this sense somewhat into a plot device: depending on what the story calls for, Spiderman sometimes senses danger (including individual blows), sometimes not. Then again, Spidey's physical prowess has varied quite a bit too, depending on where that particular story is going and who his nemesis is.

So were going to assume that every time that Spiderman has trouble with street levelers its PIS, despite the fact hes had trouble with street levelers for 100s of years?

Originally posted by Mindship

Lastly, Spiderman is not exactly a slouch when it comes to tactical fighting.

He is when it comes down to H2H fights.


Originally posted by Mindship

He'll have had experience as well fighting Cap and realize what he has to do and avoid.



Yes and it helped a great deal when he fought Cap in the civil war, but lets just ignore that.

Originally posted by DigiMark007



Also lost, imo, is the fact that Cap's ability to take punishment stems in part from his shield, which he doesn't have for this fight. He wields it masterfully, but it's pretty much the reason he can hold his own against opponents that are >>> he is. Pete's webs aren't nearly the loss that Cap's shield is in this fight.

...

Cap didnt use his shield to protect himself once in the civil war fight.

Originally posted by DigiMark007


I look at it like this. I have no training in any sort of fighting. But if you pitted me against a skilled martial artist, and told me that I'd be given 15x his strength, maybe 1.5x durability, and 1.5x speed (cautious estimates imo), I'd happily take it and consider myself the favorite in the fight. He'd hit me lots, and it would hurt. Beating me wouldn't be impossible, and he might experience his way to a few wins out of 10. But I'd still like my chances the vast majority of the time.

You can look at it anyway you want but the actual evidence in comics indicates that Caps skill is good enough to give him the majority.



Originally posted by AngryManatee
Spider-Man has dodged bullets. Cap was killed by a bullet. End of discussion. Spidey is the fastar!!!

He was wearing strength dampeners that inhibited his speed.

I don't go by what happened in the comics if they contradict common sense. Spiderman wins 10/10. Cap is a statue to him. Plus no punch or kick can land if someone has precog and the speed to dodge and weave through machine gun fire easily.

If someone says Cap wins then please answer these questions to convince me

1. How can someone get hit by a punch or kick if they both know it's coming and how to get out of the way (hence spider-sense)?

2. How can a punch or kick hit someone who is fast enough (speed and reflex wise) to weave through machine gun fire?

Originally posted by h1a8


1. How can someone get hit by a punch or kick if they both know it's coming and how to get out of the way (hence spider-sense)?

His Spidersense is not perfect it may warn him that a right hook is coming but it doesnt warn him that the right hook is a trap that sets him up for another move, he gets warned a split second before he doesnt get a detailed warning of whats going to happen several seconds later.


Originally posted by h1a8

2. How can a punch or kick hit someone who is fast enough (speed and reflex wise) to weave through machine gun fire?

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1327/captainamerica35119uw4.jpg

Thats just 1 example you obvoulsy dont know anything about Captain America do you?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The gap isnt big enough to make a difference. Cap is capable of dodging a large number of Spidermans punches so for starters that doesnt even matter if hes stronger.

He is when it comes down to H2H fights.

Yes and it helped a great deal when he fought Cap in the civil war, but lets just ignore that.
Originally posted by Mindship
It isn't just that Spiderman is faster, more agile and stronger, he also has his spider-sense. Unfortunately, writers have made this sense somewhat into a plot device: depending on what the story calls for, Spiderman sometimes senses danger (including individual blows), sometimes not. Then again, Spidey's physical prowess has varied quite a bit too, depending on where that particular story is going and who his nemesis is.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So were going to assume that every time that Spiderman has trouble with street levelers its PIS, despite the fact hes had trouble with street levelers for 100s of years? A bit of an exaggeration, but yup. It's just an unfortunate fact of comic storytelling that happens to many characters (usually to make the lesser character look better). Regardless: Cap = peak human, Spider-Man = superhuman, and super > peak (or should) more than peak > super.

Originally posted by Mindship
A bit of an exaggeration, but yup.

Well if its a bit of an exaggeration its not really that good a point is it?

Originally posted by Mindship

It's just an unfortunate fact of comic storytelling that happens to many characters (usually to make the lesser character look better). Regardless: Cap = peak human, Spider-Man = superhuman, and super > peak (or should) more than peak > super.

Prove that its PIS. If you say something is PIS without explaining why its just blantant bias.

I also dont know what you're saying about the peak, Cap is enhanced human not a glorified athelete.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well if its a bit of an exaggeration its not really that good a point is it?
I was referring to this...Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So were going to assume that every time that Spiderman has trouble with street levelers its PIS, despite the fact hes had trouble with street levelers for 100s of years?


Prove that its PIS. If you say something is PIS without explaining why its just blantant bias.

I also dont know what you're saying about the peak, Cap is enhanced human not a glorified athelete. That's the nice thing about respect threads: one can refer to them for what a character is capable of. But c'mon: we all know that PIS is a common element in comic storytelling. Lord knows I have to deal with it everytime someone brings up how Thor beats Surfer ( ). All "canon" means is that what happened is "official," not necessarily that it's right.

We've all read a ton or two of Spiderman's books.

Spiderman always goes into a fight stressing about paying the rent, trouble with his girl, aunt being blackmailed, JJJ, responsibilities with his students, ressurrected Goblin and a lot of other stuff. In addittion his powers and costumes are in constant flux.

street levellers with territorial advantage will always be able to get a few kicks in on a daydreaming Spiderman

Originally posted by Mindship
I was referring to this...

You get the point.

Originally posted by Mindship

That's the nice thing about respect threads: one can refer to them for what a character is capable of. But c'mon: we all know that PIS is a common element in comic storytelling. Lord knows I have to deal with it everytime someone brings up how Thor beats Surfer ( ). All "canon" means is that what happened is "official," not necessarily that it's right.

Ok you do realise that you still have not given me an explanation? Can you see whats wrong with debating like this? Debating does not just involve makig statements it involves an explanation as well. If your just going to keep saying its PIS you might as well debate by literially saying "Nu-uh" or "You're wrong" with no explanation at all.



Originally posted by shiv
We've all read a ton or two of Spiderman's books.

Spiderman always goes into a fight stressing about paying the rent, trouble with his girl, aunt being blackmailed, JJJ, responsibilities with his students, ressurrected Goblin and a lot of other stuff. In addittion his powers and costumes are in constant flux.

street levellers with territorial advantage will always be able to get a few kicks in on a daydreaming Spiderman

Stop making excuses all heroes have problems.

Originally posted by Mindset
Luckily this fight is not happening in the comics where they bring Spiderman's level down and Cap's up.

So you're going to disregard on panel evidence that goes against your preference?

Originally posted by jinzin
So you're going to disregard on panel evidence that goes against your preference?

Yes that is basically what is going on in this debate. IDLIDH. I Dont Like It it Did'nt Happen.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yes, it is. You're using a couple pages from one issue of a comic where the fight didn't even finish, and Spiderman was too busy admiring Cap ti show any skill to show Cap wins.

If that's not your proof then what are you using?

The fact that Cap has shown to be Spiderman's superior in h2h combat on at least 4 seperate occassions now?

The fact that Spiderbot who was Spiderman's match, had his powers, and ran through the Avengers new he shouldn't be messing with Cap in h2h because Cap was simply too savy in his fighting knowledge?

The fact that Cap is a superior h2h combatant to Spiderman by MULTITUDES by stats, by feats, and by Spiderman's own admission?

The fact that Spiderman's had trouble in h2h against everyone from Fancy Dan to Taskmaster and back again and that Cap is a tier or three above most of those guys if not all of them?

Or maybe it's just that by Spiderman's own admission... "Cap always finds a way!"

Originally posted by Mindset
For instance?

Black Cat, Black Panther, White Tiger, White ninja, X-23, The Enforcers, Daredevil, Taskmaster, Punisher, Nightcrawler (h2h), Kingpin, Backlash, Doc Doom (h2h), Cage (h2h)..and the list truly goes on and on....



Oh oh! And the 5 times that Spiderman has engaged Captain America in combat with webs and hasn't won....

Originally posted by jinzin

Or maybe it's just that by Spiderman's own admission... "Cap always finds a way!"

Even the robot clone that was not holding back said that he could'nt take Cap, so that excuse cant be used. Yeah im gonna keep mentioning that robot clone. :

If there is no PIS involved, Spiderman takes it. H2H skill wise Cap is the better. Experience wise, although Cap has more under his belt, it doesn't give him any real advantage, as Pete is also very experienced- having fought numerous foes from street muggers to cosmic heralds.
In spiderman's favour he is at least 25 times stronger, is faster and more agile-and he has Spidersense.
His poor showings were wre down to incosistanciesby writers. There was one story, from the 70's, where he teamed up with Punisher and Nightcrawler in which Spiderman was beaten up and knocked out by TWO of Jigsaw's hired thugs. In another story he struggled to overturn a limo. In a story written by someone who knows what Spiderman's true power level is, he would overturn the limo EASILY with 1 hand and those 2 ordinary thugs wouldn't lay a finger on him and he would ko them with a couple of playful slaps. At the other end of the scale though, Pete should never beat Firelord. But Cap isn't Firelord. A couple of good punches from even 10ton Spiderman should end the fight

Originally posted by BUSTER1
If there is no PIS involved, Spiderman takes it. H2H skill wise Cap is the better. Experience wise, although Cap has more under his belt, it doesn't give him any real advantage, as Pete is also very experienced- having fought numerous foes from street muggers to cosmic heralds.
In spiderman's favour he is at least 25 times stronger, is faster and more agile-and he has Spidersense.
His poor showings were wre down to incosistanciesby writers. There was one story, from the 70's, where he teamed up with Punisher and Nightcrawler in which Spiderman was beaten up and knocked out by TWO of Jigsaw's hired thugs. In another story he struggled to overturn a limo. In a story written by someone who knows what Spiderman's true power level is, he would overturn the limo EASILY with 1 hand and those 2 ordinary thugs wouldn't lay a finger on him and he would ko them with a couple of playful slaps. At the other end of the scale though, Pete should never beat Firelord. But Cap isn't Firelord. A couple of good punches from even 10ton Spiderman should end the fight

ARGGGHHHH!!!!! THERE IS NO PIS!!!!!!! durhulk

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
ARGGGHHHH!!!!! THERE IS NO PIS!!!!!!! durhulk

What are you going ARGGGHHH about Phantom?? I'm merely stating my opinion that if there is no PIS, then Spidey wins

Originally posted by BUSTER1
What are you going ARGGGHHH about Phantom?? I'm merely stating my opinion that if there is no PIS, then Spidey wins

Yeah and im stating that with no PIS Cap still wins. You are implying that win Spiderman has fought Cap its PIS and thats just not true.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah and im stating that with no PIS Cap still wins. You are implying that win Spiderman has fought Cap its PIS and thats just not true.

Yeah I am stating that, and I beleive its true. Thats my opinion. Have you got a problem with that??

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Yeah I am stating that, and I beleive its true. Thats my opinion. Have you got a problem with that??

Ok can you back that up with a logical explanation?

Spidey kills him.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
If there is no PIS involved, Spiderman takes it. H2H skill wise Cap is the better. Experience wise, although Cap has more under his belt, it doesn't give him any real advantage, as Pete is also very experienced- having fought numerous foes from street muggers to cosmic heralds.
In spiderman's favour he is at least 25 times stronger, is faster and more agile-and he has Spidersense.
His poor showings were wre down to incosistanciesby writers. There was one story, from the 70's, where he teamed up with Punisher and Nightcrawler in which Spiderman was beaten up and knocked out by TWO of Jigsaw's hired thugs. In another story he struggled to overturn a limo. In a story written by someone who knows what Spiderman's true power level is, he would overturn the limo EASILY with 1 hand and those 2 ordinary thugs wouldn't lay a finger on him and he would ko them with a couple of playful slaps. At the other end of the scale though, Pete should never beat Firelord. But Cap isn't Firelord. A couple of good punches from even 10ton Spiderman should end the fight

Don't know what leads you to that conclusion. Spiderman having problems in h2h with good fighters is a norm and in no way representative of PIS. It's a standard.

Cap's durability is strong enough to take class 10 punches and it always has been.

Originally posted by jinzin
Don't know what leads you to that conclusion. Spiderman having problems in h2h with good fighters is a norm and in no way representative of PIS. It's a standard.

Cap's durability is strong enough to take class 10 punches and it always has been.

In my opinion it is PIS - a man who can punch Rhino unconscious, with a handful of punches and who can knockout Firelord should have no trouble with street levellers. Do you think Spidey should've beat Firelord?

Originally posted by BUSTER1
In my opinion it is PIS - a man who can punch Rhino unconscious, with a handful of punches

Cap has Koed people tougher than Rhino.

Originally posted by BUSTER1

and who can knockout Firelord should have no trouble with street levellers. Do you think Spidey should've beat Firelord?

Thats PIS comparing SvFL to Sv Cap is illogical, for starters the main difference is that Spiderman only has a big advantage in terms of strength. FL was superior to Spiderman in every way.

Cap's knocked Rhino out with kicks and punches.

Spiderman knocked out Firelord after heapload of plot devices and hitting him most likely hundreds of times before FL went down and even that is considered PIS... in fact that's the feat that set a standard for PIS...

Spiderman has had trouble with street levels on a far more massive consistency than he has KOing bricks and heralds...

Not really my place to say. But I think that Firelord was written down and Spiderman up in that instance.. As do most.

SM is at least class 15, though I personally think class 25, faster, more durable, and has precog...How does Cap win?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
SM is at least class 15, though I personally think class 25, faster, more durable, and has precog...How does Cap win?

It would help if you actually looked over the posts. Its like we keep repeating the same stuff again and again.

Jinzin and Phantom-you are making my arguement for me. I have already said thet Spidey shouldn't beat Firelord-that fight was PIS. But he shouldn't lose to street levellers either. You state correctly that in the Firelord fight Firelord was written down. Spiderman is written down in a lot of stories, including ones where he faced off against Captain America.
As for Spiderman's own comments about Captain America, regarding his H2H skill, if you know anything about Spiderman, it is he reveres Cap and he tends to play down his own abilites

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Jinzin and Phantom-you are making my arguement for me. I have already said thet Spidey shouldn't beat Firelord-that fight was PIS. But he shouldn't lose to street levellers either. You state correctly that in the Firelord fight Firelord was written down. Spiderman is written down in a lot of stories, including ones where he faced off against Captain America.


Im not making your arguments Firelord is vastly superior to Spiderman in every aspect, Spiderman is only superior to Cap in strength by a big margin, but Caps massive skill advantage is enough to give him the majority.

You cant compare SvFL to SvCap that is absurd.

Originally posted by BUSTER1

As for Spiderman's own comments about Captain America, regarding his H2H skill, if you know anything about Spiderman, it is he reveres Cap and he tends to play down his own abilites

1. A robot clone of Spiderman that was stalemating Spiderman said the samething.
2. Cap has beaten Spiderman villains.

Why is comparing Spidey vFL to Spidey v Cap absurd? Why are you of the opinion, that FL being beaten by Pete is FL being written down, but Parker having a low showing is acceptable.
You said Spidey's only noticeable advantage is his strength-what about his Spidersense??

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
SM is at least class 15, though I personally think class 25, faster, more durable, and has precog...How does Cap win?

Because the factors that would make the difference in this fight don't defect to strength alone?

Originally posted by jinzin
Because the factors that would make the difference in this fight don't defect to strength alone?

Dark-Jaxx didn't just mention Spidey's strength in that post, he also mentioned Spidey's speed and durability advantage, and Spidersense

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You get the point. Yes, when you stated...
So were going to assume that every time that Spiderman has trouble with street levelers its PIS, despite the fact hes had trouble with street levelers for 100s of years? ...I understood your point then, to which I replied you were exaggerating (with the "100s of years", and you replied...
Well if its a bit of an exaggeration its not really that good a point is it? Basically, you shot down your own point, and I was just trying to clarify that (since I'm pretty sure that wasn't your intention).

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Jinzin and Phantom-you are making my arguement for me. I have already said thet Spidey shouldn't beat Firelord-that fight was PIS. But he shouldn't lose to street levellers either.

Hmmmm... Not really. The difference between Spiderman and high end street levels is minimal. They're in the same league when it comes to what kinds of feats they have, what kind of enemies they take down, and what it takes to bring them down.

The difference between Spiderman and a friggin Herald of Galactus is absurdly and vastly monumental in comparison.

It's like the difference between two olympic runner; Gold and Silver place medal winners, one might be marginally better than the other but neither are as fast as a turbo jet which is what the difference between FL and SM is when you consider outright power.


Firelord shouldn't lose to Spiderman because he regularly competes at another level completely it's not even logical to compare him to streetwalking metahumans. Spiderman on the other hand has been in street level contests since his incarnation.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
You state correctly that in the Firelord fight Firelord was written down. Spiderman is written down in a lot of stories, including ones where he faced off against Captain America.
How is that even remotely the same?
The only advantage Spiderman brings to a street level fight at Cap's level is strength... that's the only thing he has over any 1st class streeter in h2h...
The advantages that Firelord has over Spiderman range from a strength and durability hundreds of times greater, to reaction times that can compensate for lightspeed intersteller travel, to power that can bring down planets...

It's like comparing a baseball to a golfball, and then comparing the same baseball to a Hummer II and calling the comparative differences between them to be in the same range.. they aren't and are far from it.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
As for Spiderman's own comments about Captain America, regarding his H2H skill, if you know anything about Spiderman, it is he reveres Cap and he tends to play down his own abilites Sure he reveres Cap, but his abilities have never shown to have a good use of h2h combat knowledge especially up against high class streeters not including Cap.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Why is comparing Spidey vFL to Spidey v Cap absurd? Why are you of the opinion, that FL being beaten by Pete is FL being written down, but Parker having a low showing is acceptable.
You said Spidey's only noticeable advantage is his strength-what about his Spidersense??
What about it? Everyone from Wolverine, to Cap to Iron Fist to even Rogue are able to feel the shifts of pressure in the air and react to attacks accordingly. Spiderman's SS is an equalizer to his lack of formal training and developed abilities and he's admitted to that too.

Originally posted by jinzin
What about it? Everyone from Wolverine, to Cap to Iron Fist to even Rogue are able to feel the shifts of pressure in the air and react to attacks accordingly. Spiderman's SS is an equalizer to his lack of formal training and developed abilities and he's admitted to that too.

Its more than equalizer, its a definite advantage. A sniper pulling a trigger from 30feet away doesn't create a shift in air pressure, but the fired bullet will. Spiderman's Spidersense will alert him to the danger as soon as a sniper takes his aim, before he even pulls the trigger. His vast experience (rememeber he has been Spiderman since he was in high school) is what makes up for his lack of formal training

Originally posted by Mindship
Yes, when you stated...
...I understood your point then, to which I replied you were exaggerating (with the "100s of years", and you replied...
Basically, you shot down your own point, and I was just trying to clarify that (since I'm pretty sure that wasn't your intention).

Im not sure if I shot down my own point because when I said....

Well if its a bit of an exaggeration its not really that good a point is it?

I thought when you said its a bit of an exaggeration that refered to Spiderman having trouble with street levelers is PIS.




Originally posted by BUSTER1
Its more than equalizer, its a definite advantage. A sniper pulling a trigger from 30feet away doesn't create a shift in air pressure, but the fired bullet will. Spiderman's Spidersense will alert him to the danger as soon as a sniper takes his aim, before he even pulls the trigger. His vast experience (rememeber he has been Spiderman since he was in high school) is what makes up for his lack of formal training

Cap had already been through WW2 and was adept at every style known to man.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Its more than equalizer, its a definite advantage. A sniper pulling a trigger from 30feet away doesn't create a shift in air pressure, but the fired bullet will.
It IS an equalizer when all it does is help Spiderman to acheive the same result as what Streeters like Cap, IF, and BP do on the regular without one.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Spiderman's Spidersense will alert him to the danger as soon as a sniper takes his aim, before he even pulls the trigger.

And DD's senses allow him to do much the same in some scenarios. That doesn't mean that DD's reflexes and ability to cope with what's coming at him is also vastly superior to other street levels... It's compensation for things he doesn't have.

Spiderman's spider sense is an equalizer to Cap's experienced and honed awareness when it comes to a hand to hand competition and it's been repeatedly proven.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
His vast experience (rememeber he has been Spiderman since he was in high school) is what makes up for his lack of formal training No it doesn't... If that was the case he wouldn't have trouble with the Enforcers 40 years into his career.. but guess what...

His experience is nice but it doesn't compensate for Cap's skill.
His S.S. is nice but it doesn't overshadow Cap's honed awareness and reflexes either. They have the same reflexive feats. They DON'T have the same feats of skill and h2h fighting application.

Originally posted by jinzin
It IS an equalizer when all it does is help Spiderman to acheive the same result as what Streeters like Cap, IF, and BP do on the regular without one.



And DD's senses allow him to do much the same in some scenarios. That doesn't mean that DD's reflexes and ability to cope with what's coming at him is also vastly superior to other street levels... It's compensation for things he doesn't have.

Spiderman's spider sense is an equalizer to Cap's experienced and honed awareness when it comes to a hand to hand competition and it's been repeatedly proven.

No it doesn't... If that was the case he wouldn't have trouble with the Enforcers 40 years into his career.. but guess what...

His experience is nice but it doesn't compensate for Cap's skill.
His S.S. is nice but it doesn't overshadow Cap's honed awareness and reflexes either. They have the same reflexive feats. They DON'T have the same feats of skill and h2h fighting application.

Spiderman is faster than Cap-I don't recall Cap being referred to as having reflexes 15 x better than human.
Spidersense> experinced honed awareness
add to this the fact that Spidey is vastly experienced at direct combat and I can't see how Cap can win

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Spiderman is faster than Cap-I don't recall Cap being referred to as having reflexes 15 x better than human.
Spidersense> experinced honed awareness
add to this the fact that Spidey is vastly experienced at direct combat and I can't see how Cap can win

You really need to read some Cap comics or go to the respect thread. If you knew anything about the character you would'nt be saying some of the stuf you are saying now. This is just basic stuff.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You really need to read some Cap comics or go to the respect thread. If you knew anything about the character you would'nt be saying some of the stuf you are saying now. This is just basic stuff.

Ihave read Cap comics and I've read plenty of Spiderman comics and I have seen both respect threads. The fact i disagree with you doesn't mean I know nothing of the characters. I'm basing my opinions on the considerable knowledge that I have of both characters

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Ihave read Cap comics and I've read plenty of Spiderman comics and I have seen both respect threads. The fact i disagree with you doesn't mean I know nothing of the characters. I'm basing my opinions on the considerable knowledge that I have of both characters

*shrug* Ok, anyway a robot clone of Spiderman said he could not take Cap in H2H.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*shrug* Ok, anyway a robot clone of Spiderman said he could not take Cap in H2H.

But a robot clone ain't the same as the real deal

Originally posted by BUSTER1
But a robot clone ain't the same as the real deal

The fact it was stalemating Spiderman shows it was just like the real deal.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The fact it was stalemating Spiderman shows it was just like the real deal.

That doen't mean any assessment it makes is entirely correct

Originally posted by BUSTER1
That doen't mean any assessment it makes is entirely correct

Let me break this down to you....the robot was a clone of Spiderman....if the robot cant take Cap in H2H that means most likely Spiderman cant either.

Also the fact it was stalemating Spiderman shows how close the clone was to being like Spiderman.


Cap wins the majority.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Spiderman is faster than Cap-I don't recall Cap being referred to as having reflexes 15 x better than human.
Spidersense> experinced honed awareness
add to this the fact that Spidey is vastly experienced at direct combat and I can't see how Cap can win


Agility.

15x Agility, not reflexes.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Spiderman is faster than Cap
Oh you think so? PROVE. IT.
Spiderman MIGHT be slightly faster than Cap but the difference would be irrecognizeable and it definitely would not pose as a matter of difference in this fight.

You feel differently? Great! Why don't you do what 1,000 pages of arguing and hundreds of Spiderman fans and fanboys alike have failed to do and show EVIDENCE past the point of hyberbole that shows Spiderman being legitimately faster than any high class street level like Cap....

I haven't seen it done yet and I've argued with A LOT of Spidey fans.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
-I don't recall Cap being referred to as having reflexes 15 x better than human.
Does he have to?
Do Quicksilver and the Flash have to be stated as XXX amount of times faster than a human for you to infer that they're faster than Spiderman? Can't you tell that from on panel evidence alone or are you not so inclined?
Why does Captain America need to be stated as being X amount of times greater than human to credit his speed when he's 1) not a normal human, and 2) every feat he does is clearly outside the scope of human capability?
And just because he doesn't have that stated...so what? You think that automatically detracts from the things he's done?

Hell even minimally trained MA's are faster than the average human being. some move so fast they can't be recorded on film.
Now multiply that by "peak human" or "enhanced human" and you're looking at one fast mofo.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
-Spidersense> experinced honed awareness
lol... In a h2h fight?
Really?
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7031/captainamericakicksassqu7.jpg

Originally posted by BUSTER1
add to this the fact that Spidey is vastly experienced at direct combat and I can't see how Cap can win So what if he's "vastly experienced"? He's "vastly experienced" at taking down stupid super powered clowns who get owned by their own stupidity, random mindless clowns who get owned by their lack of brains, super intelligent clowns who still get tricked into defeat or can't hack a real fight.. The only thing Spiderman's "vastly experienced" in when it comes to fighting dangerous and skilled streeters, is getting his Spider butt handed to him, or at the least having a hard time... I don't see how you can think he can't win when every bit of evidence points to the contrary.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Ihave read Cap comics and I've read plenty of Spiderman comics and I have seen both respect threads. The fact i disagree with you doesn't mean I know nothing of the characters. I'm basing my opinions on the considerable knowledge that I have of both characters

Considerable knowledge?
Like equating Cap to a human being?
I dunno about that. Originally posted by BUSTER1
But a robot clone ain't the same as the real deal The real deal said he couldn't take cap in h2h either..

Originally posted by jinzin
Considerable knowledge?
Like equating Cap to a human being?
I dunno about that. The real deal said he couldn't take cap in h2h either..

As I've stated before Spidey reveres Cap and sometimes plays down his own abilities

Originally posted by BUSTER1
As I've stated before Spidey reveres Cap and sometimes plays down his own abilities

What of the multitude of other streetlevelers whom had their way with spidey?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
What of the multitude of other streetlevelers whom had their way with spidey?

What about them-as I've said Spiderman has been written down alot over the years, losing to or being stalemated by people who, with his powerset, he should demolish. Oh and his reflexes are 15 x faster than a normal persons (and yes I do know Cap is far superior to nomal people)

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
His Spidersense is not perfect it may warn him that a right hook is coming but it doesnt warn him that the right hook is a trap that sets him up for another move, he gets warned a split second before he doesnt get a detailed warning of whats going to happen several seconds later.

I must be the only true Spider-man fan here. It seems as none here knows about Spidey. When Spider-man's spider sense is acting it causes his reflexes to increase 20-40 times faster than a human (depending on the level of threat). This makes him see things in slow motion (like bullets).

Here's another thing only true spider-man fans know. The spider-sense guides him out of the way of an attack. It also sometimes jerk his body away without his knowledge or permission (like when a human touches something hot and jerks away before they realize it was hot).

Your right hook scenerio contradicts these things along with him weaving through high calibur machine gun fire (He dodges left but another bullet is there). We spider-man fans don't like Spidey for no reason.



Impressive in human eyes indeed, but still a statue to Spidey.
Spiderman is superior to cap in every way (strength, speed, agility, etc.) except martial art skill. But Spidey's powers give him a fighting skill and style that is superior to cap's. For example, the highest ranking ninja has better fighting skills than I, but give me spider powers and my fighting skill automatically exceeds his (even if I hold back my strength to equal his).

ANY TIME SPIDEY LOSES, IT'S JUST PIS!!!!

Originally posted by jinzin
So you're going to disregard on panel evidence that goes against your preference?

I am!
Because my preference goes along with common sense.

Give me spiderman powers and you take captain america powers. Now watch me easily and effortlessly beat the sh!t outta you.

Originally posted by Soljer
ANY TIME SPIDEY LOSES, IT'S JUST PIS!!!!

I would say over 90% of the time this is the case (It's PIS or comic stupidity).

Originally posted by Soljer
ANY TIME SPIDEY LOSES, IT'S JUST PIS!!!!

Actually I'd say a lot of times that is the case. Comic book writers are concerned about plot, not fights their fans put them in.