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So who wins? the overrated NJO luke, or the team?

I know that i broke the three or below rule, but it says within reasonable exceptions, and i couldnt deside who was better, bane or nihilus. So here it is.

RULES:
1. No fanboys. If you find yourself biased towards one of the characters in this fight, dont even post.
2. No closing this thread. AT ALL
3. State why whoever wins wins.

YOUR MOM

who wins.

Luke goes down hard. Yoda was the most powerful jedi prior to Luke existence. Nihilus is strong in the force and arguably second to Sids. as far as sith go. Bane in the orbalisks is a tough beat in lightsaber combat. And DE Sidious alone can put a fight. Luke at best could take one or two of them with him but that seems to be a stretch almost.

Grand Master Skywalker is promptly crushed into the ground. Though he is arguably the most powerful personage to ever grace the mythos, he is facing two of his peers (Nihilus and Sidious) and two alarmingly powerful Force users and duelists in the form of Yoda and Bane.

Luke loses. Badly.

Please... could you possibly change this thread, or at least clarify on the incarnations of the characters? Thanks ^^. Because DE Sidious could put up a tough fight against Luke- saber-wise, he actually might be slightly superior, but Luke, then again, is the simple incarnation of light side godliness and being overpowered.

ROTS Sidious is the strongest sith lord in history. IN HISTORY. That includes Krayt and Caedus later on... which... err... makes no sense, because Caedus was almost as powerful as Luke, but Luke should generally beat ROTS Sidious... oh hell.

Yoda- one of the best fighters in the history of the galaxy, an extremely potent Jedi with extreme lightsaber skills equal to ROTS Sidious' (arguable) and extremely powerful usage of the force. He has extreme experience, and, after Luke, is the strongest Jedi in history.

Nihilus has powerful force skills, but other than his drain- which Luke could probably somehow destroy by some weird crap. Other than that, he's an unimpressive Sith Lord with barely decent lightsaber skills.

Bane is probably the second strongest Sith Lord after Sidious, and is extremely skilled in lighysaber combat and in the dark side of the force.

Is Sidious allowed to Force Storm Luke and kill him instantly? Or is it ROTS Sidious?

Anyway... I'm not in debating mood at the moment (might change soon, tho ^^) but ROTS Yoda and ROTS Sidious together would probably beat Luke.

Personally, I feel that Luke is the strongest ever because of his insane force powers- his saber skills, while good, aren't something well beyond everything that we've seen. Bane, Yoda, and Sidious can all put a VERY good lightsaber fight against him alone and can possibly beat him in exclusively lightsabers.

So... is it DE Sidious or other Sidious? Anyway, Luke loses.

No need to be absurd or illogical; the statement that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history does not apply to his successors unless the statement is made during or after their reign. As for him being superior to Luke Skywalker in lightsaber combat, a much better argument would be made for Force mastery.

This is serious spite, Luke dies painfully.

Luke loses for reasons already posted.

Personally, I believe that Sidious' lightsaber skills- contrary to common opinion- will prove to be more of a real threat to Luke.

Oh, and by the way, if I was incorrect about him being stronger than his successors... well, in NEC- Where he is stated as the strongest Sith Lord- it reached up to the time of the New Jedi Order, meaning Caedus and Luke. But, if I misunderstood, then I admit my mistake.

Luke's lightsaber skills were impressive, indeed, but it did not make him the strongest person in history. He did not show anything beyond anything that we've seen in lightsaber combat. He was capable of striking fast and beating Yuuzhan Vong. Impressive, of coruse, but his force abilites are far more impressive than that- also, I did not say necessarily superior, but rather possibly have a slight advantage in that.

Sidious, by DE, completely pwned DE Luke when it was a fair fight; of course NJO Luke is a lot more powerful than DE Luke, but I doubt that he's reached the point that he can overcome the person who beat him in two blows when he was already a Jedi Master. Sure, Force Storm is good, but Luke might be able to, once again, defeat Sidious' control of it- this time possibly alone because of his increased power- so Sidious' best chance would be to leap at Luke and fight him in lightsabers.

Luke, however, is ultimately stronger because of his raw force power, mastery of the light side, numerous knowledge of techniques, etc...

ROTS Sidious' lightsaber skills aren't that much worse than DE Sidious'- as he IS described in the novel as a blur of speed and such- but is ultimately weaker than Luke.

By the way... a more interesting way to write this thread is add Caedus to Luke's team ^^. It'll actually give him a chance...

this could go either way but if i may make a case for luke, thank you.

1) due to the whole "rule of two" thing, bane, siddious, and nilihus would have crappy lightsaber teamwork together.

2) the only real threat here is siddious,
if njo luke far surpasses DE siddious, then he is way way way stronger than the other two sith who are said to be weaker than siddious who is stated to be the strongest.

3) yoda is a semi threat but he stalemated a rots siddious and luke beat a de siddious (with help from his sister of course).

4) luke surpasses the most powerful sith, and the greatest enemy the darkness has ever known.

5) fight summary
luke makes short work of nillihus with a quick beheading, then while moving at lightening speed, he pulls down yoda's trousers which distracts yoda long enough for luke to duel siddious down to a pulp. bane force pushes luke which causes him to lose balance, and hit a wall. luke gets up, only to find that yoda has launhed at him and he dodges yoda's blade by a mere centimetre. luke quickly recoils and beheads yoda. bane engages luke in a 15 second , djem so brawl in which bane find himself tiring out, but luke is not at 100% either. noticing that bane's orbalisk protect him, luke fires his most fierce force lightening, bringing bane sizzling to his knees. luke uses force judgment to separate bane from the force. bane dies in a master kavarian way.
game over

I didn't disagree. But in all practicality, one doesn't have to be able to defeat someone in order to be a threat to him or her.



Skywalker isn't a Sith, the title doesn't apply to him in any aspect. Caedus is a Sith, but he hasn't demonstrated any unique feat that would make one believe that he is more powerful than the Emperor.



Skywalker's lightsaber skills were so proficient that he was capable of appearing to be wielding over a dozen blades -- this seen through the eyes of Jaina and Jacen Solo -- who are uniquely powerful and trained swordsmen and Jedi. I never said that his Force prowess was inferior or superior to Sidious's own, but a better argument for Sidious could be made in regards to Force mastery, as the Emperor spent decades mastering the Force to a greater extent than any other individual in the mythos.



Skywalker circa Dark Empire was very powerful and very accomplished, but this was mostly through the result of unique aptitude and on-the-job-training, rather than dedicated study and years of practice. His expertise and refinement would have increased beyond comprehension with swordsmanship.



While Skywalker has the clear advantage in raw power and natural affinity, Darth Sidious is miles his superior in terms of Force knowledge and study. One could make an argument that he has a more complete understanding of the light side and Jedi doctrine than Skywalker himself.



And?



A very, very small one.

This is stupid. Luke gets raped.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
this could go either way but if i may make a case for luke, thank you.

1) due to the whole "rule of two" thing, bane, siddious, and nilihus would have crappy lightsaber teamwork together.

This is the thing with these multiple-participant lightsaber duels; it would seem that many people would not work well with each other, so it actually simply comes down to saying if the four combined are stronger than NJO Luke. So it happens that one of them is close to him, and the three other can also pull off a great fight against him, too.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
2) the only real threat here is siddious,
if njo luke far surpasses DE siddious, then he is way way way stronger than the other two sith who are said to be weaker than siddious who is stated to be the strongest.

3) yoda is a semi threat but he stalemated a rots siddious and luke beat a de siddious (with help from his sister of course).

NJO Luke does not necessarily far surpass Sidious; sure, he's more powerful, but as I've said... leave them with just their sabers, and it could possibly go either way.

Yoda a semi threat? Yoda is extremely powerful, as is Sidious; both are, before Luke's time, the strongest of their kind (the Jedi and Sith) and are hugely proficient duelists with extreme levels of experience and force mastery. Bane is a very potent saber duelist, has his armor and Nihilus can do weird Force Drain thing.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
4) luke surpasses the most powerful sith, and the greatest enemy the darkness has ever known.

Accurate, but not by a lot. And remember, they're teaming up here ^^.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
5) fight summary
luke makes short work of nillihus with a quick beheading, then while moving at lightening speed, he pulls down yoda's trousers which distracts yoda long enough for luke to duel siddious down to a pulp. bane force pushes luke which causes him to lose balance, and hit a wall. luke gets up, only to find that yoda has launhed at him and he dodges yoda's blade by a mere centimetre. luke quickly recoils and beheads yoda. bane engages luke in a 15 second , djem so brawl in which bane find himself tiring out, but luke is not at 100% either. noticing that bane's orbalisk protect him, luke fires his most fierce force lightening, bringing bane sizzling to his knees. luke uses force judgment to separate bane from the force. bane dies in a master kavarian way.
game over

I completely and utterly disagree. While Nihilus will probably fall quickly, Sidious, Yoda, and Bane alone would be a significant threat to Luke saber-wise; all are extremely fast and powerful in the force. There won't be a 15 second fight here, and Luke won't duel Sidious to a pulp. Only chance Luke has is to try to fry them with Electric Judgement and other uber force skills, but then again... they're all extremely powerful, and Sidious can probably conjure up more potent lightning than Luke due to lightning being a natural tool of the dark side.

Luke finds himself, after killing Nihilus, quickly overwhelmed in a saberduel and will die a quick and satisfying death.

To Gideon: If I said Sidous > Luke, TYPO, I meant that he was stronger than Caedus ^^. Also... Luke uses Djem So, it's about power, not speed- Sidious is probably the weaker, but faster swordsman. And other than that I agree with everything you said.

How is he even going to kill Nihilus? That's a bold and unsupported statement at best, considering the guy's telekinesis was enough to rip a starship out of a gravity well. Not to mention that he fact that he eats the life energy of planets for lunch...

Originally posted by Faunus
How is he even going to kill Nihilus? That's a bold and unsupported statement at best, considering the guy's telekinesis was enough to rip a starship out of a gravity well. Not to mention that he fact that he eats the life energy of planets for lunch...

Because, Mark Hamill portrayed Luke Skywalker, went on to portray the Joker, who is now being portrayed by the great, late Mr. Ledger. Common sense, narb.

Well if this Mark Hamill vs. the four, he winz. Duh. But it's a Luke Skywalker written by the likes of Troy Denning and the Traviss *****, so PIS makes him think he's shitting a brick and he dies.

QED, nooblet.

Originally posted by Faunus
Well if this Mark Hamill vs. the four, he winz. Duh. But it's a Luke Skywalker written by the likes of Troy Denning and the Traviss *****, so PIS makes him think he's shitting a brick and he dies.

QED, nooblet.

By the way, Troy Denning said that Luke is intentionally being underwritten, "all uniquely powerful characters suffer from deus ex machina" since heroes are supposed to face "overwhelming odds and challenges". One supposes that's why Luke has been put to the background... perhaps they can work on a feasible explanation next time.

I figured his favorite nephew dying, his other nephew turning evil, half the Jedi Order getting WTFpwned, and said evil nephew killing his wife and torturing his son were "odds" enough.

Originally posted by Faunus
I figured his favorite nephew dying, his other nephew turning evil, half the Jedi Order getting WTFpwned, and said evil nephew killing his wife and torturing his son were "odds" enough.

Well, clearly, you were wrong.

Faunus is never wrong. It's "common knowledge." Clearly, post-RotJ authors are tools.

Originally posted by Faunus
How is he even going to kill Nihilus? That's a bold and unsupported statement at best, considering the guy's telekinesis was enough to rip a starship out of a gravity well. Not to mention that he fact that he eats the life energy of planets for lunch...

As Luke has the greatest light-side powers in history, was capable of (with help) cutting off the strongest Sith Lord from the force temporarily, and has saber skills well beyond Nihilus', I really do believe he could last long enough to kill Nihilus.

Though I may be wrong; Nihilus is one extremely unknown character. We can't really say much about him since so little is known of him... shame. He had potential to be a great character.

And it's all possible that Luke will be cut into pieces before he gets to Nihilus.

Originally posted by Faunus
How is he even going to kill Nihilus? That's a bold and unsupported statement at best, considering the guy's telekinesis was enough to rip a starship out of a gravity well. Not to mention that he fact that he eats the life energy of planets for lunch...

do you know hoe hard he has to concentrate and how much time he needs to do all that stuff?

btw this fight is like pitting frieza against the ginyu force. sure the team has powerful members but NONE of them can take him out alone. and given how much more powerful he is, not even team work may save them.

but lets be more technichal here.

1) yoda needs a lot of room for his ataru, and with three other partners he may not be able to whip out his best moves.
2) nilius needs to concentrate, which takes time, time in which he can be beheaded.
3) siddious' juyo faces the same difficulty as his EQUALLY poweful nemisis yoda.
4) Bane is IMO the biggest threat only because of the orbalisk

6) luke moves so fast as to be a blurr. something i havent seen any of the other guys do

they all move so fast as to be a blur... jedi just do. anytime they talk about jedi moving in combat, or sith, its always a blur, or "eye can't follow" or "unbelievable speed" its just what they do.... i don't think speed is really something we can debate on here.

Luke of course, loses, except, MOC makes a good point, chances are, the four of them would carve each other up getting to luke. If luke stands in a hallway (watch 300)? and they have to come at him one at a time, he's going to win. B/C NONE of them are powerful enough to hurt luke in the force. Their force attacks would just fail. I'll go so far to say that he would not even have to raise his hands, or his lightsaber, or anything, i don't think one of them have the power to hurt luke through the force, and if he is standing in a hallway, he schools them one at a time.

If its in an arena, he loses eventually, but i bet he takes a couple with him.
(not necassarily either, its possible my analysis of his power to resist their force attacks is incorrect, and if that's the case, then 2 attack him constantly through the force so he can't defend himself with a saber, and then he is cut down pretty quickly)


ridiculous thread by the way. (something tells me u just wanted to see luke lose one.... )
that's easy, just put him against Boba, the "greatest threat to the jedi"
lol...

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
So who wins? the overrated NJO luke, or the team?
SERIOUS spite thread.

mmm... Maaaybeee

No, it is.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
mmm... Maaaybeee

It is. And it isn't amusing. Most of us tend to try to pit combatants against those whom they stand a considerable chance of defeating, not create hypothetical, lopsided matches. For all of his power, Skywalker has no chance of success. Essentially, you've composed a waste of time and space for this forum.

IMO out of all these combatants if were to be faced on a 1v1 scheme, i see sidious as the most formidable foe and has a considerable chance to win. No easy fight though for either contestant.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
do you know hoe hard he has to concentrate and how much time he needs to do all that stuff? Not very, at least when he does it to single opponents.

Originally posted by Ivalice
IMO out of all these combatants if were to be faced on a 1v1 scheme, i see sidious as the most formidable foe and has a considerable chance to win. No easy fight though for either contestant.

What I find most disturbing is the rather inaccurate delusion that Skywalker circa New Jedi Order or Palpatine circa Dark Empire are completely peerless; this is not the case. It can be safely concluded that both of them are the most powerful and most proficient Force users of their respective orders, but there are still a select few individuals who would represent a formidable threat. The problem is moreso aggravating for Palpatine, as it has been established in canon by the New Essential Chronology and the Complete Visual Dictionary that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord even during the prequel trilogy -- and we see a considerable growth in power from the prequel trilogy to the original trilogy to Dark Empire. Whereas, in Skywalker's case, we have seen foes challenge him on equal footing. Darth Caedus in Inferno, Supreme Overlord Shimrra in the Unifying Force, and Lord Nyax in Rebel Dream.

Originally posted by Gideon
What I find most disturbing is the rather inaccurate delusion that Skywalker circa New Jedi Order or Palpatine circa Dark Empire are completely peerless; this is not the case. It can be safely concluded that both of them are the most powerful and most proficient Force users of their respective orders, but there are still a select few individuals who would represent a formidable threat. The problem is moreso aggravating for Palpatine, as it has been established in canon by the New Essential Chronology and the Complete Visual Dictionary that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord even during the prequel trilogy -- and we see a considerable growth in power from the prequel trilogy to the original trilogy to Dark Empire. Whereas, in Skywalker's case, we have seen foes challenge him on equal footing. Darth Caedus in Inferno, Supreme Overlord Shimrra in the Unifying Force, and Lord Nyax in Rebel Dream.

lol he wasnt even trying to kill caedus dude. he was going soft on him. if luke wanted to he couldve murdered jacen quickly

Originally posted by Man of Christ
do you know hoe hard he has to concentrate and how much time he needs to do all that stuff?

btw this fight is like pitting frieza against the ginyu force. sure the team has powerful members but NONE of them can take him out alone. and given how much more powerful he is, not even team work may save them.

but lets be more technichal here.

1) yoda needs a lot of room for his ataru, and with three other partners he may not be able to whip out his best moves.

Not necessarily. Yoda is extremely small, something that allows him to get over the natural disadvantages of Ataru- namely the poor defense and the needing of space- thus making him the strongest master of Ataru around. Note his level of defense when he fought Sidious; yeah, it's that good.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
2) nilius needs to concentrate, which takes time, time in which he can be beheaded.

Imagine the following scenario- Sidious attacks Luke from his front, Yoda attacks Luke from his back. Both (maybe Yoda isn't) are faster than Luke, although he can probably overpower them in saberlocks and such. Even without the concentration, they'll have an excellent chance of beating Luke alone- I mean, even Yoda and Sidious one on one against Luke in pure sabers have a good chance against him. But together? Uh-uh. It will give Nihilus all the time he needs.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
3) siddious' juyo faces the same difficulty as his EQUALLY poweful nemisis yoda.

Sidious used his exemplary Juyo mastery against Yoda in the Senate; he didn't need ANY space to launch extremely fast and vicious attacks. Of course, he won't be able to pull off his good acrobatics, but if he has good teamwork with Yoda- providing they aren't enemies here, both are extremely smart and can probably pull it off- they can kill Luke very, VERY fast in saber-range.

Oh, and btw, if it's DE Sidious, he's stronger than Yoda. ROTS Sidious is Yoda's equal.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
4) Bane is IMO the biggest threat only because of the orbalisk

False. Bane, along with Nihilus, is weaker than Sidious and Yoda; his orbalisks make him vulnerable to electric judgement, and his saber skills are good, but probably inferior to Luke's. Bane will most likely be, along with Nihilus, force-support.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
6) luke moves so fast as to be a blurr. something i havent seen any of the other guys do

Sidious moves faster than the eye can see. Yoda is extremely fast. Hell yeah they're as fast as he is... maybe even more.

But this thread is pointless. We all know Luke will get completely crushed... of course it's fun to say it, but NJO Luke vs. Sidious, or Luke vs. Yoda and Bane... that's far more interesting. Lol.

And, although Sidious is the strongest Sith Lord ever... well, it's kinda wierd. Caedus put a good fight against Luke. If ROTS Sidious > Caedus, he can logically be Luke's equal. If that's the case, DE Sidious >>> Luke. Which makes no sense xD.

And, by the way, did Sidious get a noticeable power up between ROTS and ROTJ? Maybe force-wise, but saber-wise, I don't think there's any reason why he would become any better.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
lol he wasnt even trying to kill caedus dude. he was going soft on him. if luke wanted to he couldve murdered jacen quickly

There must be two editions of that book floating about. My copy is the one where Luke sneaks up on Caedus and attempts to butcher him in a lightsaber fight.

What about yours?

Originally posted by Gideon
There must be two editions of that book floating about. My copy is the one where Luke sneaks up on Caedus and attempts to butcher him in a lightsaber fight.

What about yours?
same. still, Luke can beat caedus any day.

Originally posted by skywalker833
same. still, Luke can beat caedus any day.

That's true, but Caedus managed to prove himself to be a worthy adversary in their lightsaber duel.

Agreed.

I cannot believe this thread...

Originally posted by Gideon
It is. And it isn't amusing. Most of us tend to try to pit combatants against those whom they stand a considerable chance of defeating, not create hypothetical, lopsided matches. For all of his power, Skywalker has no chance of success. Essentially, you've composed a waste of time and space for this forum.

hmm. call my thread a waste of time and a spite thread?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=480401&highlight=ode+to+janus

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=480402&highlight=ode+to+faunus

I wouldnt know if he had a chance or not, i thought he was an udder god. So which 2 combatants would he be well matched against?

i think any two of them would be a fair fight. there was a yoda and sidious versus luke, and i think many people were picking luke.

yes, udder god... as in "moo"

anybody disagree with my assessement of the fight if placed in a hallway with no combatants behind him though?

Originally posted by truejedi

ridiculous thread by the way. (something tells me u just wanted to see luke lose one.... )
that's easy, just put him against Boba, the "greatest threat to the jedi"
lol...

BOBA WINZ!!!111!! KAREN TRAVIS SAID SO!!!

Ironically, Lord Knightfa11, both of those spam threads you cited were greeted with higher praise than this joke you authored. Common sense, please: no Star Wars character is capable of taking on the likes of Sidious, Nihilus, Bane, and Yoda at the same time.

Lol, though it was fun to say that Luke would get defeated ^^.

Seriously though. Luke isn't as invincible to the point that he needs four of the strongest people in Star Wars history to be defeated.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Lol, though it was fun to say that Luke would get defeated ^^.

Seriously though. Luke isn't as invincible to the point that he needs four of the strongest people in Star Wars history to be defeated.

Correct. I'd speculate that the Emperor and either Bane, Yoda, or Nihilus would be sufficient enough to defeat Luke somewhat comfortably.

Originally posted by Gideon
Ironically, Lord Knightfa11, both of those spam threads you cited were greeted with higher praise than this joke you authored. Common sense, please: no Star Wars character is capable of taking on the likes of Sidious, Nihilus, Bane, and Yoda at the same time.

Unfortunately, my "joke" has more place in the STAR WARS VERSUS forum. This is not the "fling random joke threads at each other" forum. Yours were a far greater time waste, and i was actually kind of serious. After hearing so much "god stuff", i wondered who would win if the 4 best fought njo luke, as i am proud to say that i have never read any NJO period literature, I just know that luke can singly take anyone in the star wars universe. Im not saying its not a spite thread. It is a valid question that has been answered.

Originally posted by Gideon
Correct. I'd speculate that the Emperor and either Bane, Yoda, or Nihilus would be sufficient enough to defeat Luke somewhat comfortably.

DE Sidious alone could put up a very good fight against Luke. And yeah, you're right.

Originally posted by Gideon
What I find most disturbing is the rather inaccurate delusion that Skywalker circa New Jedi Order or Palpatine circa Dark Empire are completely peerless; this is not the case. It can be safely concluded that both of them are the most powerful and most proficient Force users of their respective orders, but there are still a select few individuals who would represent a formidable threat. The problem is moreso aggravating for Palpatine, as it has been established in canon by the New Essential Chronology and the Complete Visual Dictionary that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord even during the prequel trilogy -- and we see a considerable growth in power from the prequel trilogy to the original trilogy to Dark Empire. Whereas, in Skywalker's case, we have seen foes challenge him on equal footing. Darth Caedus in Inferno, Supreme Overlord Shimrra in the Unifying Force, and Lord Nyax in Rebel Dream. When i said "these" combatants, it was in reference to the ones mentioned in this thread, yes i am totally aware of the others that are formidable thanks to you.

By the way can you tell me a little bit more about lord nyax?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Irek_Ismaren#Lord_Nyax

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Irek_Ismaren#Lord_Nyax Thanks but the information inputted in that profile is very vague which is why i asked gideon to elaborate on lord nyax, but thanks anyways.

np. I tried, unfortunately, i havent read anything past Star wars unity or something, the mara jade vs luke skywalker wedding. and i have read very little of that time frame. otherwise, i would help far more.

Everyone agrees that the team of four would win, this is pointless.

You're a little late buddy.