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classic 3 areas of combat

Here is my conclusion:

Light Saber duel: Obi-Wan (after a tough contest)
Force fight: Exile (easily)
All Out: Exile has higher chances of victory.

1. Saber duel=exile (the exile knows all VII forms at this point, while kenobi only knows 2.)
2. Force duel=hard to tell. Haven't seen/heard much on the exiles part, nor on kenobi's-- im going with the exile on this one.
3. all out=Exile

the exile is in a league of his own, having defeated nihilus, scion, and Kreia.

This truly cannot be argued for, as Dark Side Exile is non-canon and somewhat irrelevant. However, for the purpose of this argument:

Sabers- Obi-Wan will likely take this. There has been nothing to suggest the Exile had exceptional lightsaber skills; she did not even defeat any particular saber beasts, unlike Revan, who took down Malak. Please. The Exile, in a short time, LEARNED of all of the forms, not mastered them; and it's not necessarily canon, anyways, as for all we know, the Exile could have not been a Jedi Guardian.

Force- Hmm... it's probable the Exile would take this. Obi-Wan had never displayed any extraordinary force feats, while the Exile did display some inherently force powers.

All Out- Impossible to know. There is no absolute canon source as to evaluate the power of the Exile.

Oh, and by the way- Sion was only formidable due to his permanent life-span, and the Exile mind-raped him. Nihilus was left vulnerable due to his failure to drain the Exile, and his lightsaber skills were hardly exceptional. Traya... well, Traya was possibly not really trying to kill the Exile. Traya was strong, as she exhibited a force drain near Nihilus' level, but she never attempted a similar thing on the Exile, and judging from her in the game, her saber skills were crap.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Oh, and by the way- Sion was only formidable due to his permanent life-span, and the Exile mind-raped him. Nihilus was left vulnerable due to his failure to drain the Exile, and his lightsaber skills were hardly exceptional. Traya... well, Traya was possibly not really trying to kill the Exile. Traya was strong, as she exhibited a force drain near Nihilus' level, but she never attempted a similar thing on the Exile, and judging from her in the game, her saber skills were crap.

"mind raping"=superior intelligence. Nihilus was left vulnerable, but this does not make his defeat impressive. Traya, knowing the exile, and what "force draining" did to nihilus, probably decided NOT to drain the exile. Saber skills=crap, or exiles skills=godly, its just how you decide to take the contrast, and gameplay mechanics are not canon. She fought the exile with lightsabers untill he chopped off her hand. Then she used TK to fight the exile with three lightsabers at a time, each fighting as if they had an individual user. the exile chopped off her hand and then destroyed the lightsabers, and then finally finished traya. This is supreme dueling on his part. Also, the exile has been a jedi before, and learned all of the forms during his exile, not speaking of the ones he knew/mastered as his former jedi self. He has also dueled more then rots kenobi, had far more dueling experience, and perhaps even more war experience; living through both the mandalorian war, and the sith(malak) vs republic(revan) war. He probably has equal cunning to obi wan as "mind raping nihilus" and 50 years of combat experience as a general shows.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
"mind raping"=superior intelligence. Nihilus was left vulnerable, but this does not make his defeat impressive. Traya, knowing the exile, and what "force draining" did to nihilus, probably decided NOT to drain the exile.
Traya was the exile's connection to the force, at least in the beginning. I will find quotes if I must. She also relied on the force to fight, and may have had to resort to fighting without it if she wanted the exile to do the same.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

Saber skills=crap, or exiles skills=godly, its just how you decide to take the contrast, and gameplay mechanics are not canon. She fought the exile with lightsabers untill he chopped off her hand. Then she used TK to fight the exile with three lightsabers at a time, each fighting as if they had an individual user.

Gameplay mechanics are not canon. If the Exile has good saber skills, then the way YOU played the game does not matter. By the end of the "game" the exile has fully recovered the connection with his past and has all of his jedi training, sith expertise, and war experience.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

the exile chopped off her hand and then destroyed the lightsabers, and then finally finished traya. This is supreme dueling on his part.
Agreed.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

Also, the exile has been a jedi before, and learned all of the forms during his exile, not speaking of the ones he knew/mastered as his former jedi self.
Which he remembered by the time of his fights.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

He has also dueled more then rots kenobi, had far more dueling experience, and perhaps even more war experience; living through both the mandalorian war, and the sith(malak) vs republic(revan) war. He probably has equal cunning to obi wan as "mind raping nihilus" and 50 years of combat experience as a general shows.

He has all of his experience, but Kenobi has his years of fighting with Anakin, and his years as a General. He is the "most cunning member of the council" (others have made this claim, it has not been contested. I will check my novelization of Revenge) Kenobi was known as "the negotiator"- so his mind HAS to have been sharp. Kenobi has several impressive Duels: Maul, Grievous, Anakin, sparring with Yoda and Mace (and qui-gon). The exile has Nhilus, Sion (twice) and Traya (and maybe visas- was she impressive?). Obi-wan was counted as a phenomenal swordsman in the heyday of the order.

I think that :
1. Obi-Wan
2. Exile (obi has few force feats-- vs. a hole in the force)
3. Obi wan will barely manage to pull this off, but he WILL win.

Obi Wan. Because exile is non-canon which I prefer as not being fair.

The Jedi Exile is canon you Narutard.

What is a "Narutard" anyway? It sounds like a retarded phrase created by some dumb white assclown.

Is it supposed to be derogatory or just used to refer to someone who reads Naruto?

Well I ain't white nor did I create that insult.
Here it is.

Ah. Yeah, I wasn't saying you were white or anything. Just asking.

Meh, makes sense I guess.

Anyways, Is this a Dark Side induced Jedi Exile fighting RotS Obi-Wan on Malachor?

It's the Nyuuka version of Exile.

Nyuuka? What's that?

BYg0oARynso

Originally posted by Jbill311

Traya was the exile's connection to the force, at least in the beginning. I will find quotes if I must. She also relied on the force to fight, and may have had to resort to fighting without it if she wanted the exile to do the same. your just adding to the proof that kreia would not force drain him, which is pretty much, one of my objectives.

1. Once again you are arguing with me on my side.
2. The exile learned all VII of the forms from the jedi masters he met during his travels. This is canon. Anything he knew from before would have compounded with what he learned after his exile. This would make him supremely proficient in one or two forms, depending on wether he was a guardian/consular/Sentinel, and knowing in the other five or six forms.


goooood. the force is strrooong with you.

I obviously implied this by even mentioning them, so once again, your arguing to my end.



he only had two fights with anakin. one on mustafar, and one on the death star in ANH.


the exile has years as a general too.

This implies that the exile would have had to have been a part of the council for this to apply to him, and that he would have had to have been alive at the time of rots; both of which he wasn't. And he doesnt have anything cunning under his belt like tricking/dun moching a sith lord into suicide.

Quinlan vos sparred with mace windu; this means nothing. to Spar and to lose and to bost on it is to be an ant on the ground and bost an encounter with a god when he steps on you. Are you implying that grevious and maul even close to compare to nihilus/sion?

Also, obi wan has shown incredible weakness when it comes to defending against the force. In ROTS he is force choked, force pushed, and then force crushed by a big object in the middle of a duel. Anakin also pretty easily force chokes him. Where the exile might not be able to get past his defenses in saber combat, he would just force him.

1. The exile knows all VII forms, not to mention the knowledge of the forms he had before his exile. How is obi wan going to win this?
2. Exile, obi wan just can't defend against the force.
3. Exile; obi wan just can't defend against the force.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
"mind raping"=superior intelligence. Nihilus was left vulnerable, but this does not make his defeat impressive.Self-ownage, much?
You do know that Traya only had one hand after Peragus, right?
Exile is female.
Prove that she'd ever mastered a form.
Prove this. Kenobi went through more lightsaber duels in the Clone Wars than the next three Jedi combined.
When'd she "mind-rape" Nihilus? She convinced Sion to kill himself by manipulating his fears and emotional weaknesses - his desire for Traya's attention and the fact that he was in love with the Exile. Nihilus would've owned her if he hadn't accidentally tried to drain her, which basically crippled him.
Pulling more random figures out of your ass? This would put her at around Traya's age.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
2. The exile learned all VII of the forms from the jedi masters he met during his travels. This is canon. Anything he knew from before would have compounded with what he learned after his exile. This would make him supremely proficient in one or two forms, depending on wether he was a guardian/consular/Sentinel, and knowing in the other five or six forms.Prove this. It's not common knowledge, it's pure speculation at best.
Ludicrous amounts of sparring time?
Yeah. That Knightfall guy says she has, like, fifty. And you can't argue that; it's common knowledge.
The "most cunning member" of a Council that included the likes of Mace Windu - recognized for his diplomatic ability on worlds as far-flung as Haruun Kal - and Yoda is pretty damn cunning.
Um, he turned Asajj Ventress away from the Dark side. Not to mention that whole thing with noob-Vader on Mustafar.
As an experiment set up by Windu to test his true alignment, much like Luke would later do with his son.

And you just completely ignored the gist of his point; the people Obi-Wan has opposed or defeated, almost all in fair, unrestricted combat, eclipses the trio that the Exile went through. Just as Obi-Wan beat Maul through sheer circumstance in TPM, the Exile won all of her duels against the three elite Sith without ever doing so under her own skill and power. Obi-Wan's survived Ventress more times than one would care to count, defeated the new Darth Vader, and basically dominated General Grievous. Not to mention his pwnage of A'Sharad Hett on Tatooine some time later, when his skills had either leveled out or decayed somewhat.
Nihilus would've crushed the Exile like your proverbial ant if he hadn't f*cked up, and Sion couldn't be defeated by her. Traya faced the same situation as Nihilus, only she decided not to doom herself immediately.
Against f*cking Count Dooku, who happens to be one of the most powerful Jedi or Sith in history. Yoda mused that "perhaps" only Mace Windu could stand against him on even ground, which was likely due to the nature of his Vaapad. Anakin won through a show of superior physical strength and resilience, but he would've had his ass handed to him in a Force battle.
He never Force-chokes him. What're you talking about?
Obi-Wan ripped a former Jedi Master's arm off with the Force, matched Anakin in a contest, and hurled the several hundred-kilogram Grievous a hefty distance with the most powerful Force-push seen on-screen.
Prove it.

Originally posted by Faunus
Prove this. It's not common knowledge, it's pure speculation at best.
i never said it was, because obviously, you (the common) do not know about it. If you had played Knights Of The Old Republic II, the Sith Lords, you would know that after the exile had found the seven jedi masters, they taught her/him their lightsaber forms. It is in the lightside female exile's cutscene, and therefore cannon. Do not accuse without knowledge.


Your point?




I don't care about yoda or mace, show me some cunning feats and i will join your cause.

No, actually, I read Star Wars obsession and he did no such thing. Assaj was fighting him, and he pointed to the leaving dooku. When she ran after dooku, dooku's troops fired upon her. they then exchanged the following dialogue:



that was stupidity on anakin's part, not cunning on vader's part.

Do i care what his intentions or the point of the storyline here was? IT is irrelivant. The point is, sparring has nothing to do with skill. If you could come up with something about how he beat windu and yoda or windu and yoda could not beat him, I would argue this no more. The sparring is irrelevant as opposed to the result of the sparring.

so you are saying that Assajj Ventress, Grevious, Maul, Dooku, and Anakin each individually are greater then Nihilus, Sion, or Traya? Thats pretty dam biased.

and this means that traya and Sion just let her beat them up/outsmart them? WRONG-O! The only one that could be debated as circumstantial was nihilus's death, and that was not nearly as circumstantial as Maul's. Nihilus was unable to use his singular force mastery against the exile due to the exiles unique passive ability, and was slain for it.
Sion was defeated by her. Nihilus did no such thing. HE did his strategically best move, and the exile just happened to be gifted with a counter do it. What are you talking about, "the same situation as nihilus" she didn't force eat a hole in the force, she went up against him with her power, and in the end the exile made her see things her way, as long as we are comparing turning-to-the-lightside-abilities, and she repented.

Yoda mused that "perhaps"... need I say more? Anakin owned dooku too in sabers, and when you tell me he was one of the most powerful, show me feats and abilities. and it has been established in a different thread that Kreia would obliterate mace. dooku>mace>kreia>exile


http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=anakin+vs+obi+wan&hl=en&sitesearch=
for the record, at 1:07, 1:22, and 2:21, anakin penetrates obi wan's saber defense. and sorry, it wasn't a force choke, it was a normal choke hold with his bare hand. Even more unimpressive on obi wan's part.
whoopy tai ai ai for him. The exile killed nihilus, Matched sion in a contest, and owned three lightsabers controlled by a sith lady/former jedi master at the same time for some of skill. He was also a wound in the force, capable of destroying the force itself for force powers.

done that. Got anything else?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
i never said it was, because obviously, you (the common) do not know about it. If you had played Knights Of The Old Republic II, the Sith Lords, you would know that after the exile had found the seven jedi masters, they taught her/him their lightsaber forms. It is in the lightside female exile's cutscene, and therefore cannon. Do not accuse without knowledge.

What game were you playing? There was not seven jedi masters. The Exile found in her journeys Atris on Telos, Kavar on Onderon, Vrook Lamar on Dantooine, Zez-Kai Ell on Nar Shaddaa, and Lonna Vash on Korriban. I don't recall Atris teaching you any form and Vash was dead on Korriban.

it wasnt like he was without close combat skill.

yea so what? after this she had first one, and then three lightsabers in her command. With the tk ability to effectively fight with three lightsaber lacking hands, why would she need two to fight effectively with one lightsaber?

this is a theoretical thread. Notice the title where it says "dark side exile"? It therefor does not matter wether or not i prefer to call the exile a female or not, unless i cite something only true for the male as cannon.

wel duh, i said knew/mastered. this means she might have known or mastered. She had a lightsaber, so obviously she would have been versed in at least one form, if not master in one.

Hoards of dark jedi in the malachor five academy? that is far more lightsaber duels then obi wan has ever been in, even if the sith that the exile defeated there were not of the calibre of the sith that obi wan dueled (exepting scion of course)

I meant sion. This manipulation is an act of cunning and intelligence, and sion was also unable to breech the exiles defence.

my point is, of course, that sion hated her more then he loved her.

Accident nothing, are you saying that nihilus can't even controll himself to chose the powers he uses, but just has random force drain spasms? He drained her on purpose, not knowing that the exile is a hole in the force. This was a strategic weakness.

1. More?
2. How do you know she wasn't born a general?
3. Mira tells the male exile that he is too old for her, and obviously to old for him to be able to handle her, giving the apparent implication that he looks senile.

Your entire argument comes down to a few, miserable points, which I'll cover here:

1) There is no proof that the Exile had mastered even a single lightsaber form. The fact that she carries a lightsaber doesn't mean she's mastered it; by that logic, every Padawan in the Order was a master swordsman.

And apparently, you played the bootleg version of KotOR II. There were only three Jedi Masters who taught you combat forms, and even then you never learned all of them.

2) The entire point of discussing sparring was to refute your statement that Obi-Wan had only fought pre-suit Anakin once, when clearly he'd engaged him in sparring sessions many, many times. I was correcting you, not making a statement.

3) The Exile never "defeated" Sion or Nihilus in true combat. Sion simply couldn't be killed, and it's highly likely that the Exile would've simply been worn out and cut down in a real fight. Verbally convincing someone with serious psyche issues to lay down his weapon does not mean she's better than him. The situation is even more clear-cut for Nihilus; he didn't know the Exile was a wound in the Force, or else he wouldn't have been stupid enough to try and drain her. She got lucky here, and that's it. He would have completely destroyed her with his tremendous Force powers in an all-out battle.

4) You need to prove that the Exile fought through "hordes" of assassins and Dark Jedi, because a player with high stealth abilities could have easily just snuck past all of them. And since you can't, you need to concede the point.

5) You are making up the "50 year" figure, and you need to admit that and move on. Seriously, this isn't KotOR according to Knightfall. And the Exile "born" a general? Are you really that stupid? Please.

Then there's this, which makes absolutely no sense:
"Anakin owned dooku too in sabers, and when you tell me he was one of the most powerful, show me feats and abilities. and it has been established in a different thread that Kreia would obliterate mace. dooku>mace>kreia>exile"

You need to get your thoughts together before posting. Unless you meant that in reverse order, in which case I would be lead to the conclusion that you spent your elementary school years asleep. "Greater than" and "less than" aren't complicated. Add to that the fact that you're using an astoundingly shitty ABC(D) scenario, and you have one pathetic argument.

Sabers: Draw. Both have faced lots of enemies and hard foes. The Exile defeated the 3 best Jedi in the Galaxy ( this is DS ending ), Sion at least 3 times and Traya. Kenobi defeated Grevious, Anakin and Hutt-guy. The |Exile might have the tactical advantage though, being The Revan's most trusted adviser, whereas Kenobi was more of a diplomat.

Force: Exile- Has shown high end force skills like Force Crush and Kill zone. As well a uniquie abilities

All-out: Epic fight yet Exile still takes it.

Originally posted by Faunus
And apparently, you played the bootleg version of KotOR II. There were only three Jedi Masters who taught you combat forms, and even then you never learned all of them.


btw, you pretty much covered the rest of my arguement, have yet do disprove it, and i am waiting. This part is true. I played a torrent from The One Eyed Dude. I then modified it from filefront.com (nothing storyline wise, just that you visit the empty temple at coruscaunt and learn stuff from jedi crap laying around.

You, apparently, can't distinguish between your points and mine. Read.

Originally posted by Faunus
Your entire argument comes down to a few, miserable points, which I'll cover here:

1) There is no proof that the Exile had mastered even a single lightsaber form. The fact that she carries a lightsaber doesn't mean she's mastered it; by that logic, every Padawan in the Order was a master swordsman.

Neither is their any evidence that revan did either, for that matter. The fact that she has a lightsaber implies that she knows a form.

true, i did play a bootleg version, and i played it 6 months aggo. I looked at the game again, and She learned plenty of the more powerful forms, however, including soresu, makashi, form IV, and i think juyo.

well he said years of fighting, not sparring or practicing, so i was supposing he meant between rots and anh, not TPM and ROTS. And anyhoo, could i have a source saying he sparred with anaking?


show me amaizing powers on the part of nihilus, and i will agree with you. All he has shown to the greatest ammount of my knowledge is basic TK and amaizing planetary drain. He still wouldn't be able to use the drain in an all out battle, unless you took away her "wound in the force" storyline device. I know that the drain represents significant force power, but i would like to see some other skills on his part before I concede. He certainly doesnt have good saber skills.

Same thing with the star forge. People automatically add to the list of revan's accomplishments "fighting hordes of star forge powered darksiders" when maybe he snuck past all of them. However, gameplay mechanics are not cannon.
1. The sith assasins have great stealth skills, and probably would have been able to detect her (questionable)
2. The Dark Siders would have been able to feel her presence. They would be able to isolate it becuase as the ithorian leader guy on telos (not an impressive force user at all) said, he could feel her hurt.
3. besides. Wookiepedia is on my side.

Prove she wasn't born a general. I actually meant that the exile seemed to be close to 50 years old from my take on the game. I did not mean that she was a general for 50 years *oops*

Well, this is a weaker point of my arguement, and you can exploit it and leave the rest of my points alone Mr. ShatterPoint (no matter how cheap this would be). The fact is,
1. its a>b>c
2. Traya>mace is based on the outcome of a debate on a theoretical fight inside kmc that could still be continued if you desired to (actually a debate I won), and therefor isnt even close to cannon.
3. A typo killed it even furthur.

so im not even going to back this point of my arguement...

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
What game were you playing? There was not seven jedi masters. The Exile found in her journeys Atris on Telos, Kavar on Onderon, Vrook Lamar on Dantooine, Zez-Kai Ell on Nar Shaddaa, and Lonna Vash on Korriban. I don't recall Atris teaching you any form and Vash was dead on Korriban.

you are right. I forgot. I modified my game so that you would learn all VII forms when you only learned like 3 or 4.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Neither is their any evidence that revan did either, for that matter. The fact that she has a lightsaber implies that she knows a form.Knows =/= mastered.

I'm not denying that she was proficient in at least one form, just pointing out that baseless assertions don't fly.
Thing is, it depends on what the player did. A Consular, for example, wouldn't learn the same forms as a Guardian.
When They Were Brothers. There's a few panels of them sparring on the way to Boz Pity. Not to mention the description of their relationship in the RotS novel.
Well, the "basic" TK is an extraordinary and almost unparalleled display of power, as is the Force drain. He also managed to cut Traya off the from the Force with nothing but a wave of his hand.
"Too old" is relative. A woman in her early twenties might consider a thirty-something man to be too old for her. In the end, 50 is not a canonically supported figure, not that it's really relevant.
Mr. Shatterpoint, huh? Me likey.

Originally posted by Faunus
Knows =/= mastered.

I'm not denying that she was proficient in at least one form, just pointing out that baseless assertions don't fly.

notice how i said "knows" instead of mastered or "knows/mastered"

all to true. I played with ultimate balance as first a jedi guardain, and then when i got to pick my superclass i chose sith lord. Pluss i modded my game to learn all VII forms. I am in the midst of playing a lightside female sentinel without any modifications (just to see how fun the cannon ride is) and its boring as heck... give me a darkside male anyday and a team of both mira and handmaiden in dancer's outfits

Thank you.


I dont remember it happening that way, as she had her force powers and the like in the begining of the game. I thought they just surprised her, beat her up, and kicked her out.

She also said that he couldn't handle her. thats saying something for age. and no, its not relevant. :/ i didn't mean to compliment you, one who i hate so much...

now i notice how your arguement is just disproving what I said. I think most of my original points remain intact. (that defeating sion is an impressive proof of intelligence and skill; that nihilus's only powerful attack was a force drain that wouldnt work on the exile anyway; That kreia was not holding back, and defeating her was an excessive proof of saber skill; and that she actually did fight through hordes of sith assasins and force users, and through these feats shows superior skill, cunning, and raw force power then kenobi)

So why do you think that obi wan would win, Faunus?