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Meh. I think Gouki takes this, but I was bored.

He sure does. Cloud MIGHT have the speed edge but he's not even in the same solar system as Akuma when it comes to POWWWAHHHHHHHH!

Indeedy doo.

Asura Senku may even give Gouki the speed edge.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
He sure does. Cloud MIGHT have the speed edge but he's not even in the same solar system as Akuma when it comes to POWWWAHHHHHHHH!

You Fail.

Cloud is NOWHERE, and I mean, NOWHERE near as ridiculous as Gouki, Cloud's speed simply does not, and I repeat, does not match Gouki's whatsoever.

In fact, Cloud's speed would not match alot of the Street Fighter character's speed. Ryu and Ken can easily, and I mean, easily dodge bullets, if you emptied a full round on Cloud, he need to parry them with his sword.

If you did that to Ryu, he would simply run foward faster then bullet time speed, dodge them with ease, and own you after.

Now, here is Gouki, someone who is far more powerful then Ryu, Gouki's speed is far greater then Ryu's not only that, Gouki does have the Ashura Warp, which would put nearly almost all speed advantage to shame.

Gouki can rip through solid steel like it where cardboard, so having the advantage of a Sword would do absolutely nothing in Cloud's department.

With this notion, Gouki would easily pummel Cloud to the ground in mere seconds. The fight would be over easily.

Show me one canon scene of Akuma's speed.



Well moving a big hunk of metal the size of the Buster Sword to block a bullet be a lot harder than just moving out of the way. Or are you claiming Ryu can dodge bullets like a Matrix Agent?



Laughable and not provable at all from what we've seen in canon.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Show me one canon scene of Akuma's speed.

Well moving a big hunk of metal the size of the Buster Sword to block a bullet be a lot harder than just moving out of the way. Or are you claiming Ryu can dodge bullets like a Matrix Agent?

Laughable and not provable at all from what we've seen in canon.

READ THE STREET FIGHTER CANON GUIDE you fool.

It has been confirmed by Capcom that Ryu can easily dodge bullets with ease, and Ken would be on par with the same speed, considering Ken has beaten and defeated Ryu twice in the storyline, and Ken's abilities are nearly similair to Ryu's only slightly weaker.

Gouki is almost double the abilities of Ryu, and Ashura Warp with Gouki owns actual movement speed anyday of the week, unless your going at FTL speed's, which Cloud obviously does not move at.

Gouki destroyed an entire mountain with his fist while training, Gouki destroyed an island with his fist, he split an Aircraft carrier in half while training deep under water in super high ridiculous pressure.

Gouki>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cloud.

Again, go and google "Street Fighter Canon Guide" and read it up, Gouki is a super elite and would destroy Cloud with ease.

Bullet-dodge does not equal bullet-time.



Who said he wouldn't?

Um. I read in a comic. that was ganon that ryu got shot protecting a fellow street fighter. Do you realize how they even Dodge the bullets. Their fighting style and they can predict the person Intentions. Also Ryu is not faster than sound. They dodge bullets by moving out of the way before the trigger is pulled. Wow @ the bullet thing. Dodging and being faster are two different things. You can dodge being hit by a car but your sure as hell not as fast as one.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Um. I read in a comic. that was ganon that ryu got shot protecting a fellow street fighter.

No Street Fighter Comic Book in existence is Canon period. The only Canon Events are either confirmed by Capcom or else the stories that take place within the Street Fighter Storyline themselves.

I do say, I did jump the gun too quickly by saying bullet time speed, however, regardless, Any of the Shoto's, wether, Ryu, Ken, or Gouki, they would annihilate Cloud with ease.

Originally posted by JustFrame
I do say, I did jump the gun too quickly by saying bullet time speed, however, regardless, Any of the Shoto's, wether, Ryu, Ken, or Gouki, they would annihilate Cloud with ease.
.. Regardless of how powerful Ryu and Kens martial art is, they are still human.. Cloud is a superhuman, he basically flies building to building chopping up huge pieces of concrete easier then a hot knife through butter, if Cloud is anything like Zack, he should beable to dodge the bullets by MULTIPLE machine guns with ease, 1 bullet would kill the street fighters or critically wound them, Cloud got shot point blank in the head by Yazoo and he was fine.

And even if they were faster then Cloud (which i doubt), Cloud handles people like Loz and Yazoo at the same time, Loz being far faster then any SF character.

Cloud curbstomps any SF character.

My God you know nothing about SF.

Ryu and Ken are certainly not normal humans.

Gouki split a mountain in half, sunk an island, both with a punch, and he can take the pressures of the bottom of the ocean, and then kicked a submarine in half, while in one leap going above the surface, bringing the sub with him.

And saying Cloud can stop any SF character shows extreme bias, M. Bison tanked a nuclear missile for Christ's sake, and Gouki one shotted him.

Gouki destroys Cloud.

Show me the comic, and prove to me that its actually the canon comic, i remember reading the supposedly canon comic online along time ago and i don't recall any of that happening.

Wouldn't the fact that Cloud has a weapon AND Materia give him the edge over Akuma ? Ie : Doesn't matter how many cars Spiderman can lift If I prod a gun into the back of his head.

I mean, if Clouds gots Materia he's gonna win.

But if this is just a fight between Akuma and his natural power VS Coud and is natural power (wit a sword)...the guy who split Ayers Rock wit one hand is gonna win.

Originally posted by Project Jedah
I mean, if Clouds gots Materia he's gonna win.

But if this is just a fight between Akuma and his natural power VS Coud and is natural power (wit a sword)...the guy who split Ayers Rock wit one hand is gonna win.

Umm, no, first off, the Gouki who destroyed the Entire Mountain, sunk an island with his fist, and destroyed an aircraft carrier while training deep under water.

That's a Gouki not even using his full power, so yeah even with materia, it would still be a complete curb stomp, unless with Materia Cloud is capable of clearing a mountain with his sword then he's not going to win.

Gouki is head over heel's over Cloud, considering Cloud has beaten opponents around his level who utilized Materia. Gouki is nearly 10x more powerful then Cloud on any level and that is a Gouki holding back.

"If" Gouki utilized his full potential, it wouldn't even be a match up, it would be equivalent to a human taking on a single ant.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Show me the comic, and prove to me that its actually the canon comic, i remember reading the supposedly canon comic online along time ago and i don't recall any of that happening. Those feats I mentioned were from the games.

Again, show the comic, and prove that its canon.. I reccall a comic where Gouki punched and destroyed a meteor the size of the planet, but that was uncanon as well.. and i'm not sure but didn't he sink his island in the anime? The animes aren't canon either.

From which games? In his ending?

Cloud in a curbstomp. He'd win this even with Geostigma.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Cloud in a curbstomp. He'd win this even with Geostigma.

This has to be a joke. You heavily underestimate Gouki. Please stop being biased.

I'm not the one who resorts to horribly underrating everything FF. Take a look at your own biases, you might be surprised at what you find.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I'm not the one who resorts to horribly underrating everything FF. Take a look at your own biases, you might be surprised at what you find.

I was never saying you underestimated "FF". I do, every single day of my life, there's no surprises to me.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I'm not the one who resorts to horribly underrating everything FF.

Yeah. Instead you overrate everything you like until it's literally ****ing pointless to bother debating with you.

What a surprise...Fascist thinks the FFVII character wins this one too.

Hey fascist, you may like it on the Narutomania forums. They think Sephiroth is above all DBZ characters there. Seems right up your alley.

Bird brains of a feather flock together ya know.

Cloud can win this, but only with high end materia, or very specific combos. And of course, he has to hit Gouki with most of his attacks. Summons are among the only things Gouki can't outright counter with speed or sheer durability.

Time stop or haste would greatly improve his chances, assuming he can connect with time stop or that haste upgrades his speed to be able to match Gouki's.

But.......then there's the Ashura Senkuu...... Instant dodge on most of Cloud's tactics and of course, the SGS, which can be setup from it. Coupled with the fact that Cloud can't fight Gouki in H2H, and minus said high end materia, Gouki takes a majority.

Materias are too versatile and powerful. Cloud wins with them IMO.

You didn't read that fine man's paragraph at all did you?
*Facepalm*

I don't overrate anything blax. Well, actually, I do kind of overrate some Darkstalkers and WoW characters so they wouldn't die upon simply seeing Sephiroth, but other than that I'm completely objective.

That's what she said!

I'm still waiting on the proof that these "feats" are even canon on Gouki's part..

Stop waiting. Go to McDonald's instead.

Because they are faster?

Originally posted by Terryc250
I'm still waiting on the proof that these "feats" are even canon on Gouki's part..

Terry, go to Google type in "Street Fighter Canon Guide" and read up about Gouki and see if his "feats" of mountain destroying and island sinking are "false".

Read it and learn, Gouki would completely and utterly annihilate Cloud with the ease of a rag doll. The mere fact that Gouki can destroy a whole mountain, something that even Sephiroth himself has not shown to be able to do (although we do not know the full power of Sephiroth yet) pretty much will put the fact that Gouki would destroy Cloud.

Btw, Gouki destroyed this mountain in his completely underpowered training form (So yes, we do not also know the full potential of Gouki storyline wise either as well).

Gouki has Ashura Warp, although not a true teleport, like say, what M. Bison does, at least from what I can tell from in-game facts and all, it would still be faster then the majority of speed out there, unless your moving at like FTL speed.

Gouki's durability should not be in question, the guy was training deep under the ocean for crying out loud, and we all know what deep ocean water pressure would do to a human being.

Didn't Cloud need a submarine to go under water in VII? That's another notion of Gouki's durability over Cloud.

I like Cloud, love his character and storyline, however, he loses out on here, and no offense, summons are an absolute joke man, considering even the non-super elites where able to go on and fight someone as powerful as Bahamut in FFVII.

So how could Gouki, someone who is leagues stronger, better, far more skillful then Cloud would have any difficulty with a summon? If Gouki can already sink islands with his fist...one single smack from his fist to Bahamut would break him into multiple pieces.

Cloud's only hope would be the fact that Gouki see's him as an inferior opponent and thus choses to let him live instead of outright blowing him out of the water.

However, it is within Gouki's nature to not truly fight opponents who are vastly inferior to himself, one such as Cloud.

wtf? when did ryu become Neo. dude, he can dodge bullets but nowhere did it say that:
-he can do it easily
-he can move bullettime ( )
-or in fact if he actually ever has.

stop overrating.

As for Gouki fighting Cloud, I'm just wondering how gouki is going to sink islands with his hands and feet hacked off
ashura senkuu has lag time. pulling it off in the middle of a fight with someone as fast as cloud is next to impossible. check out his SFA2 ending which is about the only time we see him teleporting and it takes him a while to do it. it wasn't instantaneous. so that leaves speed out.
sure, gouki is toptier when it comes to h2h, but this isn't h2h. this is one guy against a person who can parry bullets with a 6-foot sword. the sword fighting speed we're talking about for Cloud is insane. on top of all that if you people are inclined to bring up teleportation and SGS, I can bring up Omnislash FFAC version where he teleports sixways and becomes intangible. i'd love to see Akuma punch that.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
wtf? when did ryu become Neo. dude, he can dodge bullets but nowhere did it say that:
-he can do it easily
-he can move bullettime ( )
-or in fact if he actually ever has.

stop overrating.

As for Gouki fighting Cloud, I'm just wondering how gouki is going to sink islands with his hands and feet hacked off
ashura senkuu has lag time. pulling it off in the middle of a fight with someone as fast as cloud is next to impossible. check out his SFA2 ending which is about the only time we see him teleporting and it takes him a while to do it. it wasn't instantaneous. so that leaves speed out.
sure, gouki is toptier when it comes to h2h, but this isn't h2h. this is one guy against a person who can parry bullets with a 6-foot sword. the sword fighting speed we're talking about for Cloud is insane. on top of all that if you people are inclined to bring up teleportation and SGS, I can bring up Omnislash FFAC version where he teleports sixways and becomes intangible. i'd love to see Akuma punch that.

~Sado Omnislash V. 5 is not intengible nor is it teleportation. I am too tired to sort out the rest of your post lolz.

in other words you're coping out

well it seemed like teleportation to me at the very least since he was phasing right through sephiroth in FFAC.

Originally posted by Sado22
wtf? when did ryu become Neo. dude, he can dodge bullets but nowhere did it say that:
-he can do it easily
-he can move bullettime ( )
-or in fact if he actually ever has.

stop overrating.

As for Gouki fighting Cloud, I'm just wondering how gouki is going to sink islands with his hands and feet hacked off
ashura senkuu has lag time. pulling it off in the middle of a fight with someone as fast as cloud is next to impossible. check out his SFA2 ending which is about the only time we see him teleporting and it takes him a while to do it. it wasn't instantaneous. so that leaves speed out.
sure, gouki is toptier when it comes to h2h, but this isn't h2h. this is one guy against a person who can parry bullets with a 6-foot sword. the sword fighting speed we're talking about for Cloud is insane. on top of all that if you people are inclined to bring up teleportation and SGS, I can bring up Omnislash FFAC version where he teleports sixways and becomes intangible. i'd love to see Akuma punch that.

~Sado

Using In-Game Wise is a complete joke, considering it's animated so that the normal human eye can see and react to it in the game to counter it.

How stupid would it be if Gouki's Ashura Warp was made to be less then half a second? Or how about Bison's Teleport which is actually Instantaneously yet in-game wise, you can see it happen in order to punish it?

Ashura Warp>>>>Cloud's speed. Lastly, you didn't read my post correctly, I even stated that most likely Gouki's ashura warp would not be instantaneous however it's much faster then anything Cloud has ever done pertaining to speed.

Gouki would be easily destroy things such as swords like a whim. Charlie was seen wiping out the whole facility of Shadowloo/law whatever you want to call it with basic blows and his special attacks. These are steel structure facilities, and well...as powerful as Charlie is, he's nowhere near in league with someone like Gouki.

Ryu and Ken can smash over steel, boulders, etc etc, with simple basic blows...and these two shoto's are vastly inferior to Gouki...so what can swords do Gouki?

Steel<<<<<Gouki's Fist.

Swords mean nothing up against a body that can sustain under water pressure and is capable of sinking islands and mountains.

Can Cloud's sword cut through an entire mountain??? No. Can Cloud's body sustain deep under water pressure? No.

If you've ever noticed, Cloud's special attacks take a moment for them to come out (As seen within AC which is a canon visual of how the FF VII cast would attack, and cast their magic/attacks). The SF Cast's moves are near instant casting. While Cloud was "trying" to do Omnislash, Gouki would have ashura warped in and gave him a Shungokusatu and it's ggpo.

You completely underestimate Gouki, this is a guy who came into the SFIII scene and owned a God...a.k.a. Gill with a Shungokusatsu, lucky for Gill he can auto-revive...something that Cloud can't do.

Gouki is on the same lvl as Ingrid in the SF World...guess who Ingrid is? She's a Goddess who can hop across clouds for fun, not to mention she can time travel and levitate huge items (The Thai Monument for example) and taking off with it.

Basically put, Gouki is a human being who is super-ridiculous to the point in which he's able to contend with God's/Goddesses. I swear after SFIII I wouldn't even be surprised if he's able to blow up a planet (of course sarcasm on the last part, but Gouki is becoming stupidly strong by the time SFIII is around).

I could go on, and on, however why bother. Gouki utilizing half his abilities already completely outclasses Cloud by a vast, vast, vast, vast margin.

Owning a god means nothing. Its just a title.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Owning a god means nothing. Its just a title.

Saying something without even backing it up with anything legit means absolutely nothing.

He's still correct.

"God" is nothing more then a name. It's not even an indication of power, and isn't a feat.

I dunno if Guki would lose or win to Cloud, however.

What SBP also did was commit a strawman fallacy. So meh.

Erm... no he didn't.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Erm... no he didn't. Yeah he did. Tried to invalidate a whole post by discrediting one point.

You'd have to prove he was trying to invalidate the whole post, and not just noticing and picking out a rather big flaw. If someone is debating someone else about Spiderman vs. Wolverine, and one of the guys says in his post that Spidey is a class 50, and you point out that Spidey isn't a class 50, are you strawmanning?

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
You'd have to prove he was trying to invalidate the whole post, and not just noticing and picking out a rather big flaw. If someone is debating someone else about Spiderman vs. Wolverine, and one of the guys says in his post that Spidey is a class 50, and you point out that Spidey isn't a class 50, are you strawmanning? Yes.

Funny. Nowadays one can't make a simple comment without being harrassed for it. I just felt the need to point out the fact that defeating a god means nothing. Shit gods get pawned left and right in almost all of fiction. To be honest I don't really care about the debate.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yes.

Then you're a douche.


I gots your back Master Chef!

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Funny. Nowadays one can't make a simple comment without being harrassed for it. I just felt the need to point out the fact that defeating a god means nothing. Shit gods get pawned left and right in almost all of fiction. To be honest I don't really care about the debate. That's no excuse for what you did. Niggas get lynched for makin Strawmans in my hood. Remember that. dur

I am a bad Spartan. masdurchief

Don't make me get my boy Superman Prime to take you out.g_sbp2

wtf...? ryu and ken could smash a boulder? when? all I know is ryu can only lift boulder.

cloud would win this. no way gouki could surpass cloud's speed. he won't use ashura senkuu anytime. cloud is much faster. maybe gouki can destroy an island. but he only split an ayers rock in half several years later with more power(kongou kokuretsuzan). no. I'm not saying gouki is weaker in SFIII. even gouki can sustain deep under water pressure. but don't forget that cloud's omnislash is DEADLY! he defeated the mighty sephiroth who can manipulate weather and cut the giant steel with little effort.

don't underestimate cloud.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Cloud in a curbstomp. He'd win this even with Geostigma.
I laughed long and loud at this.

Omnislash Version 5 would destroy Gouki. Even Sephiroth's regeneration couldn't save him, and we are talking about a guy who can regenerate his entire body in seconds, using only a few cells in a box.

Gouki isn't going to stand there and orgasm in awe at the big glowy thingies like Sephiroth did. We all saw Seph's face in AC when Cloud did the omni-slash. It looked like he came.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Gouki isn't going to stand there and orgasm in awe at the big glowy thingies like Sephiroth did. We all saw Seph's face in AC when Cloud did the omni-slash. It looked like he came.

That scene was in slow-motion. It's officialy stated that Omnislash Version 5 happens in an instant, in a blink of an eye.

That's not instant.

Originally posted by SHM
Omnislash Version 5 would destroy Gouki. Even Sephiroth's regeneration couldn't save him, and we are talking about a guy who can regenerate his entire body in seconds, using only a few cells in a box.
Assuming Akuma leaves such a ridiculously large opening for Cloud to pull that off which I HIGHLY doubt.

ditto.


and yet cloud will just stand there long enough to let gouki do the SGS? or his other moves which are far and by not even half as fast as omnislash?
besides what part of "instant/blink of an eye" didn't you get?

The blink of an eye is not instant.

*nitpicks*

It's amasing the amount of times one has to repeat the same information for the same character over the course of a few years...

Well, time to explain it to the next generation... All over again...

Originally posted by Terryc250
Again, show the comic, and prove that its canon.. I reccall a comic where Gouki punched and destroyed a meteor the size of the planet, but that was uncanon as well.. and i'm not sure but didn't he sink his island in the anime? The animes aren't canon either.

From which games? In his ending?

Goukiu sunk the Island Gokentou with a punch in his Street Fighter Alpha 2 ending, which is confirmed canon.

He split Ayers rock in half with the Kongou Kokuretsu Zan in his Street Fighter 3 Double impact ending, also canon.

He blasted the wreckage of a sunken ship from the ocean floor to the ocean surcace, demolishing a submarine and a research vessel in the proccess with the Tenshou Kaireki Jin in his Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike ending.

3 events right there that you tried to disreguard, but are well known canon facts from the game...

didn't it say that the island "disappeared"? i'm still skeptical about it actually sinking.


are you for real?
*checks previous posts*
oh...yeah...sadly you are

omnislash>>gouki

cloud able to levitate, very fast, has an omnislash, and able slash bahamut down to the city at first round battle(second round he got help from his friends. remember when he leap with his friends help?). gouki can't win this. even he can split ayers rock in half, sunk an island, but his speed is doubtful. while cloud can levitate, gouki can do only squat. don't underestimate cloud's power. maybe his power wasn't as strong as gouki, but he still able to cut the giant steel effortlessly.

cloud would slash him to pieces with omni slash V5 and left only gouki's forehead.

Originally posted by Sado22
didn't it say that the island "disappeared"? i'm still skeptical about it actually sinking.

Because there is no other reason for it to dissapear... Anyways, it's irrelevant, the island is gone thenks to Gouki's power, wether it sunk, outright was destroyed, or simply vanished. I'm inclined to beleive the 1st option, because it was exploding... And having him outright destroy it is overhyping the feat rediculously...

Originally posted by kenshirou
cloud able to levitate, very fast, has an omnislash, and able slash bahamut down to the city at first round battle(second round he got help from his friends. remember when he leap with his friends help?). gouki can't win this. even he can split ayers rock in half, sunk an island, but his speed is doubtful. while cloud can levitate, gouki can do only squat. don't underestimate cloud's power. maybe his power wasn't as strong as gouki, but he still able to cut the giant steel effortlessly.

cloud would slash him to pieces with omni slash V5 and left only gouki's forehead.
Are you saying that Gouki is unable to take on a Bahamut, out of all things?

Honestly, if Akuma is breakin mountains and battle ships in single strikes, don't really see what's stoppin the dude from just breakin Cloud's sword/swords if he tries cuttin'im wit it. Or just vape'im wit a Messatsu Gou Hadou, I mean Cloud almost died when he got shot by that one Sephiroth lookin guy in AC. So I don't see huge chances in Cloud survivin Akuma's projectiles. Like ALL Akuma's moves are SUPPOSE to kill after just one use.

If it's any consolation to the FF7 fans, if Cloud had materia he could potentially kill Akuma in one move. But Cloud just by his self gets his ass beat like Rodney King.

i know what you mean. just pointing it out.
IMO, i think he just destroyed the island. that makes it less ridiculous than crumbling the techtonic plates etc.


cloud was parrying bullets at point blank range in FFAC. in fact, two guys were shooting at him simultaneously and he kept parrying them. i'm not even saying dodging...i'm talking about parrying. i doubt akuma can hit him with gou-hadoukens. and i also doubt gouki'd want to come close to a guy who weilds his 6foot sword faster than bullets.

akuma gets his arms and legs hacked off. now if only someone would kill wolverine so we can finally be rid of two of the most overrated pieces of sh!t in this solar system.

~Sado
P.S. nothing personal darko.

Gouki can jump from the bottom of the ocean to above the surface while kicking a submarine in half, he carried it over the surface basically. Akuma can move faster than cloud.

Misogi is instant, and will one hit Cloud, it is the same attack Gouki used to destroy the island in his ending, only more focused.

Originally posted by Sado22
didn't it say that the island "disappeared"? i'm still skeptical about it actually sinking.




I'm pretty sure the only way an island could "disappear" is if it were sunked. Unless your claiming the island didn't disappear? Which would be strange since Gouki doesn't reside there anymore.

Originally posted by Sado22
cloud was parrying bullets at point blank range in FFAC. in fact, two guys were shooting at him simultaneously and he kept parrying them. i'm not even saying dodging...i'm talking about parrying. i doubt akuma can hit him with gou-hadoukens. and i also doubt gouki'd want to come close to a guy who weilds his 6foot sword faster than bullets.
Considering the bullets in that movie moved slow enough to be seen and swatted at (yes, swatted at, I just watched that movie on DVD again this weekend) without use of any effects to indicate changes in perception of speed that doesn't really tell me anything that he's faster than Gouki. At all. Besides, Cloud's been shown to hack through a fifty foot section of pipe in two instantly, but how does that pertain to something like a gou-hadouken? They're two entirely different things. As said before Gouki rips through steel.
Originally posted by Sado22
akuma gets his arms and legs hacked off. now if only someone would kill wolverine so we can finally be rid of two of the most overrated pieces of sh!t in this solar system.
Jesus Christ...come back and debate when you're not so bloody biased, will you.

my... cloud's really underestimated here. both bullets and gou hadouken are projectile type attacks. it has the same type of attack. and gou hadouken wasn't as fast as bullets (don't know about it's power). cloud swing a six combined sword with one hand and parry those bullets. that's an impressive speed. I don't see how would gou hadouken hit cloud.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
my... cloud's really underestimated here. both bullets and gou hadouken are projectile type attacks. it has the same type of attack. and gou hadouken wasn't as fast as bullets (don't know about it's power). cloud swing a six combined sword with one hand and parry those bullets. that's an impressive speed. I don't see how would gou hadouken hit cloud. Maybe not. But a Misogi would, and would kill him.

*Enters super fanboy mode*

Messatsu Gou Hadou is a huge beam attack thats instantaneous!

What drugs are people on these days...

*Exits super fanboy mode*

j/k

Well it would kill Cloud. And easily.

well, i never saw gouki fly. and how could he use kongou kokuretsuzan while jumping? if he could do it, maybe he can win. otherwise, I hate to say this but... no. powerwise : I never doubt gouki's power. but if you want gouki vs bahamut sin, think again. bahamut is a giant, can fly and has great firepower. I wonder how gouki would fight bahamut while bahamut shot him from air? if you say shin gouki, then the story would be different.

and even if he able to use kongou kokuretsuzan while jumping, I don't think he can jump that high.

so now because the bullets were seen, they are no longer applicable? what kind of logic is this anyway. the bullets used were regular were charged with materia too (the silverhairedfags shooting at cloud were shown with the materia in their arms). they were swatted? call it what you want, i call it being parried. either way, you're missing the point. if a man can swing a 6foot sword and "swat" bullets with it, then he's pretty damn fast. fast enough to dodge giant fireballs no less.


and what's the greatest speed feat of gouki do you have in mind, DarkC?


i said he'd hack off Gouki, not his gou-hadoukens. besides, if he can go right through a hugeass ball of flames that the dragon shot at him, what makes you say he can't do the same to a gou-hadouken. on top of that, he's powerful enough to smack the dragon that was 50 times his size and he sent it crashing to earth.


like i said above.


so now i'm biased because i don't agree with you? yes i don't like gouki. that's been established before you even showed up here. but that never stopped me from admitting that gouki one tough SOB and i've voted for gouki winning in a number of threads.
i hate gouki as much as ClassicNES hates Ryo. and that's saying a lot. and i think he's overrated as well. but in a fight between him and terry bogard, i was routing for gouki. in fact, i had him beat terry on my own site.

biased? i don't think so. stop throwing that word around needlessly.


*takes materia and hacks off DS into tiny little peices and mails them to other SFfanboys*

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
cloud was parrying bullets at point blank range in FFAC. in fact, two guys were shooting at him simultaneously and he kept parrying them. i'm not even saying dodging...i'm talking about parrying. So...
Dude has got like 7 GIANT swords. Parryin bullets aint a big deal, not when you got a guy splittin Ayers Rock wit one hand. Lol, you see what happened when he didn't parry....damn near died.

Originally posted by Sado22
i doubt akuma can hit him with gou-hadoukens. Lol, straight denial, blockin tiny bullets is a whole lot easier then blockin body vaporizing chi blast...Cloud and his blade are reduced to ashes.

Originally posted by Sado22
and i also doubt gouki'd want to come close to a guy who weilds his 6foot sword faster than bullets. You mean cloud wouldn't wanna come close to a guy who could rip his body apart wit a single punch...or vape'im wit a fireball.

Originally posted by Sado22
akuma gets his arms and legs hacked off. now if only someone would kill wolverine so we can finally be rid of two of the most overrated pieces of sh!t in this solar system. As soon as Cloud strikes wit his sword, Akuma grabs it and breaks it over his knee, talks down to him for not relying solely upon his fist and snaps his neck like an early 90's action movie.

reduced to ashes? think again dude. cloud didn't vaporize when he sucked into bahamut's giant fireball. so, that's no problem if it's against gouki's gou hadouken. besides, gou hadouken, although fast, but it's speed is nowhere near bullet's speed.



that's if he can catch it. cloud's swing is fast. now ay gouki would catch it. cloud parry a bullet with a 6 combined sword. would gouki catch such a fast swing? i guess not.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
reduced to ashes? think again dude. cloud didn't vaporize when he sucked into bahamut's giant fireball. Who did Bahamut's fire ball kill? Some chumps? Anyone important, Anyone capable of fighting back? Instead of thinkin Cloud is so strong that he can just jump through blast, all evidence points to Bahamuts fire ball just bein weak.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
so, that's no problem if it's against gouki's gou hadouken. Yet and still Cloud can be killed by regular bullets and Akuma can survive deep sea pressure that is almost 10 times more deadlier and uses more pressure than a bullets hitting your body.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
besides, gou hadouken, although fast, but it's speed is nowhere near bullet's speed. how do you know that?



Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
that's if he can catch it. cloud's swing is fast. now ay gouki would catch it. cloud parry a bullet with a 6 combined sword. would gouki catch such a fast swing? i guess not. Unless cloud could replicate a force that resembles being so deep in the ocean you would need a sub to stop from imploding, his blade/blades wont do'im much good. Cloud can never swing anything wit that much force, its over for'im.

first, he has six swords. and when he was parrying he was using two of them and the most impressive bit where they were shooting at him up close, he was using only one sword. and nice of you to point out the fact that he can spin GIANT SWORDS so fast that he can parry bullets with them. which is what we're saying all along.


body vaporizing? when did akuma vaporize somebody? when did capcom even state that he CAN vaporize someone?


again...who did he rip apart with one punch?


you're entitled to an opinion. i say, that long before akuma even thinks about it his arms go flying off, then his legs and then his neck.
akuma=overrated no more


you see, whats wrong with your argument is this:
-akuma hasn't killed ANYBODY with his gou-hadoukens. not even chumps.
-has his gou-hadouken been shown to vaporize somebody. even something. no.

hence your reasoning is flawed. saying the bahamut's fireball is weak based on the fact that he just killed chumps with it is something i can counter by saying that akuma has never even be shown to kill a chump with his gou-hadoukens. or even messatsu-hadoukens.


that has nothing to do with being hacked off. he can resist excess pressure? good for him. what we're talking about is being cut off. now unless you have proof that gouki is Kenshiro or goku, we all know that he isn't immune to swords and being cut.
nuff said.


he knows because the gou-hadouken's speed is never stated. heck, its power is actually considered weaker to ryu's for pete's sake. and ryu's hadouken is as strong as a well landed kick....no one's incinerating anybody, so let go of the dream.

~Sado
P.S. according to Saiki and Tiamat, the beam hadoukens are just for the MvC games. they aren't canon.

Originally posted by Sado22
so now because the bullets were seen, they are no longer applicable? what kind of logic is this anyway. the bullets used were regular were charged with materia too (the silverhairedfags shooting at cloud were shown with the materia in their arms). they were swatted? call it what you want, i call it being parried. either way, you're missing the point. if a man can swing a 6foot sword and "swat" bullets with it, then he's pretty damn fast. fast enough to dodge giant fireballs no less.
Dress it up how you like. The bullets were slow enough to be seen in flight in terms of "real life" time.

So if it's a "bullet" does that mean it automatically travels at a constant speed, has a constant range? No, it doesn't. You are in no position to lecture someone else on logic, based on this reasoning of yours.
Originally posted by Sado22
and what's the greatest speed feat of gouki do you have in mind, DarkC?
Misogi (completely instantaneous).
Originally posted by Sado22
i said he'd hack off Gouki, not his gou-hadoukens.
Null point. Gouki is more durable than steel.
Originally posted by Sado22
besides, if he can go right through a hugeass ball of flames that the dragon shot at him, what makes you say he can't do the same to a gou-hadouken.
Because Gouhadouken and Bahamut flame are two different things?
Originally posted by Sado22
on top of that, he's powerful enough to smack the dragon that was 50 times his size and he sent it crashing to earth.
Gouki sinks an island with one punch and splits a mountain in half.

Originally posted by Sado22
so now i'm biased because i don't agree with you?
No, it's because of this:

If you don't have similar like/hate for contending characters then you're biased, no argument. Me, I am not biased; Gouki is my favourite SF character lore wise, Cloud is my second favourite in the FF series (Sephiroth, predictably, is first), I have the FFAC final fight favourited on YouTube, etc, etc.
Originally posted by Sado22
that's been established before you even showed up here. but that never stopped me from admitting that gouki one tough SOB and i've voted for gouki winning in a number of threads.
That doesn't make you unbiased at all. It has to do with personal preferences, Sado. And as you admitted above and below, you hate Gouki.
Originally posted by Sado22
i hate gouki as much as ClassicNES hates Ryo. and that's saying a lot. and i think he's overrated as well. but in a fight between him and terry bogard, i was routing for gouki. in fact, i had him beat terry on my own site.
...and so?
Originally posted by Sado22
biased? i don't think so. stop throwing that word around needlessly.
Um, yes you factually are biased, you admitted inadvertently to it yourself just now.

no they weren't. they were bullets charged with materia which makes them even stronger and faster. as far as my reasoning is concerned, you're still denying the fact that Cloud was fast enough to parry bullets. furthermore, the one dressing things up is you by calling it 'swatting' and actually pretending that it nulls my point while clearly ignoring what i'm trying to say. what i'm saying is that he's very, very fast in his swordweilding and can definitely parry off fireballs from akuma...considering especially that the fireballs are weak and have no speed feat.


tatsumaki-senpuukyaku=tornado whirldwind kick
so now from your reasoning ryu or ken become tornados.


you have no proof of that. and cloud cuts right through steel or anything. in fact, the buster sword's description it is said to be able to cut through "anything" (source, wiki)


cop out.


try to understand the context of what the other person is saying, DarkC.


well that's good to hear. i hate cloud and i hate akuma. the only reason i watched final fantasy AD and played the game was because of Tifa. i also said several times that cloud is horribly overrated (even more than akuma) and its a shame that he hogs away attention from characters with as much depth as Solid Snake.


you are supporting the character that you like more than the one that comes much lower on your fav list or about the same, as far as i can tell. as opposed to me who is supporting the character he considers even more overrated than gouki. does that imply that you're biased. no it doesn't. it just means that you're entitled to an opinion.

so please, don't use the "biased" card on me again.

~Sado
P.S. here's something for you to consider (source wiki):
Gunblades have a gun-like handle which contains a firing mechanism but are not considered projectile as the firing mechanism only makes the blade vibrate causing extra damage, and does not fire any actual shells, with the exception of Yazoo's gunblades from Final Fantasy VII Advent Children, and Weiss's twin Gunblades, shown in Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus

Originally posted by Sado22
first, he has six swords. and when he was parrying he was using two of them and the most impressive bit where they were shooting at him up close, he was using only one sword. and nice of you to point out the fact that he can spin GIANT SWORDS so fast that he can parry bullets with them. which is what we're saying all along. Like dude, I don't understand, how is that above gonna help him beat Akuma?


Originally posted by Sado22
body vaporizing? when did akuma vaporize somebody? when did capcom even state that he CAN vaporize someone?Have you seen the Alpha movie and how Ryu vaporized his foes wit...Gou Hadoukens, weaker than those of Akuma, have you ever seen Akuma even throw a Gou Hadouken wit the intent to kill before?


Originally posted by Sado22
again...who did he rip apart with one punch?Oh wait, my fault, Akuma SUNK AN ISLAND and SPLIT AYERS ROCK wit a punch, not a person, my bad. Cuz Cloud has clearly shown the feats necessary to make the assumption that he's more durable than a friggin mountain.

I'll try to forget that Cloud has been penetrated with bullets and swords through out the FF7 series, unlike mountains.

LOL


Originally posted by Sado22
you're entitled to an opinion. i say, that long before akuma even thinks about it his arms go flying off, then his legs and then his neck.
akuma=overrated no more What ever you say buddy, unless Cloud has the power necessary to cut Akuma he wont be hackin anything. And last time I played the game Cloud's sword can't replicate the pressure of 3000 leagues in the sea, which still wouldn't cut it cuz...akuma survived it.

But what ever, you stick wit Cloud cuz you hate Akuma, I'll stick wit Akuma cuz it's correct logic.


Originally posted by Sado22
you see, whats wrong with your argument is this:
-akuma hasn't killed ANYBODY with his gou-hadoukens. not even chumps.
-has his gou-hadouken been shown to vaporize somebody. even something. no.

hence your reasoning is flawed. saying the bahamut's fireball is weak based on the fact that he just killed chumps with it is something i can counter by saying that akuma has never even be shown to kill a chump with his gou-hadoukens. or even messatsu-hadoukens. lol, but Ryu is shown that he is capable, wit WEAKER versions of AKUMA's moves. So that pretty much closes the above argument.


Originally posted by Sado22
that has nothing to do with being hacked off. he can resist excess pressure? good for him. what we're talking about is being cut off. Are you sure that you know what the hell you talkin 'bout?

If bodies are crushed at 2000 leagues and Akuma is kickin battle ships to the surface at 3000, do you know how hard and fast Cloud would have to swing to hack off one of his limbs...it have to be a whole lot better than what he has shown so far. Hell he would have to move so fast that we couldn't even see him for 90% of the battle.

Originally posted by Sado22
now unless you have proof that gouki is Kenshiro or goku, we all know that he isn't immune to swords and being cut.
nuff said.What? Akuma aint no Goku but I don't think I ever seen dude even get his skin pierced, I take that back, he bled from his mouth after gettin his ass kicked by Gouken in the UDON comic when he was younger...if that counts for anything.


Originally posted by Sado22
he knows because the gou-hadouken's speed is never stated So that automatically means it's slow as hell? Pleez.

Originally posted by Sado22
heck, its power is actually considered weaker to ryu's for pete's sake. And that doesn't sound like an official source to me cuz SFEC(an official source) says Akuma's moves can kill instantaneously so once again, do you know what your talkin 'bout or are you just against Akuma cuz your biased as hell and you want deeply in your heart for him to lose, so much so that him losing makes no sense?

Originally posted by Sado22
and ryu's hadouken is as strong as a well landed kick....no one's incinerating anybody, so let go of the dream. Cuz he doesn't intend to kill people wit it.

Dee Dee Deeee.

Originally posted by Sado22
~Sado
P.S. according to Saiki and Tiamat, the beam hadoukens are just for the MvC games. they aren't canon. Saiki and Tiamat must be your only sources and what do you know, none of them work for Capcom!

Originally posted by DarkC
Dress it up how you like. The bullets were slow enough to be seen in flight in terms of "real life" time.

So if it's a "bullet" does that mean it automatically travels at a constant speed, has a constant range? No, it doesn't. You are in no position to lecture someone else on logic, based on this reasoning of yours. It so helps to know a bit about real life elements in debates, like the fact that bullets don't go the same speed forever. But that would just be simple logic.

Originally posted by DarkC
Null point. Gouki is more durable than steel. When you say that guys are gonna start callin'im Goku for some reason, but if the shoe was on the other foot, guys would have no problem then, it only shows biased.


Originally posted by DarkC
Because Gouhadouken and Bahamut flame are two different things? Like does anyone know what Bahamuts blast is?


Originally posted by DarkC
Gouki sinks an island with one punch and splits a mountain in half. Which is why I don't understand why they keep makin points of Cloud's strength, cuz Akuma clearly dwarfs'im in that category.

Originally posted by Sado22
so now because the bullets were seen, they are no longer applicable? what kind of logic is this anyway. the bullets used were regular were charged with materia too (the silverhairedfags shooting at cloud were shown with the materia in their arms). they were swatted? call it what you want, i call it being parried. either way, you're missing the point. if a man can swing a 6foot sword and "swat" bullets with it, then he's pretty damn fast. fast enough to dodge giant fireballs no less.


and what's the greatest speed feat of gouki do you have in mind, DarkC?


i said he'd hack off Gouki, not his gou-hadoukens. besides, if he can go right through a hugeass ball of flames that the dragon shot at him, what makes you say he can't do the same to a gou-hadouken. on top of that, he's powerful enough to smack the dragon that was 50 times his size and he sent it crashing to earth.


like i said above.


so now i'm biased because i don't agree with you? yes i don't like gouki. that's been established before you even showed up here. but that never stopped me from admitting that gouki one tough SOB and i've voted for gouki winning in a number of threads.
i hate gouki as much as ClassicNES hates Ryo. and that's saying a lot. and i think he's overrated as well. but in a fight between him and terry bogard, i was routing for gouki. in fact, i had him beat terry on my own site.

biased? i don't think so. stop throwing that word around needlessly.


*takes materia and hacks off DS into tiny little peices and mails them to other SFfanboys*

~Sado 1. Bullets don't travel at the same speed forever, and some don't even top soundspeed. And the fact that Cloud's swords are giant makes it easier to block them since he has the strength to wield it.

2. Misogi is instant and will one shot Cloud, it is the mountain cracking move to a more focused extent.

3. Gou Hadoukens incinerated people apparently when used by Ryu, they can with Gouki as well. Bahamut Sin would be kicked in half by Gouki.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Bullets don't travel at the same speed forever, and some don't even top soundspeed. And the fact that Cloud's swords are giant makes it easier to block them since he has the strength to wield it.

2. Misogi is instant and will one shot Cloud, it is the mountain cracking move to a more focused extent.

3. Gou Hadoukens incinerated people apparently when used by Ryu, they can with Gouki as well. Bahamut Sin would be kicked in half by Gouki.

I'll answer this one by one.

1. cloud blocks those bullets with his 6 combined sword. swinging that sword with one hand is awesome. so what if that's a giant sword? it's a shame if he can't parry those bullets with his sword. maybe bullets doesn't have a sound speed. but it is very fast. can you even see the bullet if someone shot you with a handgun?

2. please note that gouki split ayers rock in half with kongou kokuretsuzan.

3. we're not talking about ryu. we're talking about gouki. and since when ryu has gou hadouken? even ryu's hadouken is just a well landed kick. don't tell me cloud would be killed with a "well landed kick"

okay, the fact that he can parry bullets means that he can dodge about anything that akuma will throw at him. the fact that he can smack bahamut down with a single swing shows that he's capable enough to do the same with Gouki, considering that gouk isn't several stories tall nor is he several hundred kilos in weight...if not tons. the fact that he can swing his sword fast enough to parry supercharged bullets means that he can hack off at akuma with relative ease.


for one, capcom said that SFA movie shows how the characters would "fight" outside of the realm of the games. basically referring to them flying around and defying gravity for the bulk of the movie. the fact that they were disintegrating people with hadouken DIRECTLY contradicts their initial remark about hadouken feeling like being hit with a well-landed kick.


very funny.
fact of the matter is, he did that with his self-proclaimed, self-confessed "ultimate technique". it wasn't a "single punch" as much as it was a ki based move that literally was his strongest move to date. you are making it sound like its his regular punch. which it isn't. clearly. besides, the chances of him landing THAT punch on cloud is one in a million considering cloud's speed and the time it takes gouki to actually pull it off.
and lastly, he never actually has been said to sink an island. the island just "disappeared". so stop right there because what capcom meant by the island "disappearing" is vague.


once again, withstanding pressure is miles away from being cut. you're not making any sense .


no its not.


ryu's hadouken is stronger than akuma's. that's the only move of ryu which is actually stronger than akuma's. on top of that, you don't disintegrate people with well landed kicks....which happens to be the description of hadouken FROM CAPCOM in an interview with its officials.

interview with official>>licensed anime.


localized pressure is a different ball park. the edge of a blade pressed against your skin is a different ball park then being pushed against a metal wall.
and don't start assuming how fast he needs to move either.

the best example i can come up with is the fact that wonderwoman can take blows from berserk superman but still can get peirced by ordinary bullets.


he lost to Gen aswell. but that's another story.
you dont' see his skin peirced cuz for the most part of it he's never directly involved in any story.


slow as hell compared to a bullet. yes. even in your beloved SFA the hadouken never travelled that fast..........in fact, that was one thing that surprised me considering the load of bull that movie was actually showing.


no need to start flaming. calm down, its just a videogame.
akuma's moves can kill instantaneously, i know. that however doesn't mean that he can disintegrate people as you've been saying all this time nor is it saying anything about it being stronger than ryu's or weaker for that matter. all its saying is that he can kill. and we all know he can. yet, he never managed to kill anyone worth speaking (not talking about SGS on Bison). ryu and ken's moves are also "lethal" moves but neither of those two have killed anyone either. ryu couldn't even kill Hugo who is midtier character with his ULTIMATE move.
and that's where you'll understand something:
just cuz a move is called lethal or whatever doesn't mean it can actually kill a real fighter. those moves can kill ordinary people. if it could, ryu wouldn't have survived his fight with gouki, adon would've died when ryu smacked him with the shoryuken in SF1, ken would have died three times over by now considering the amount of fighting he's done with ryu. heck, sakura and karin kanzuki also fought ken and didn't die.

to go back to the question: who has akuma killed "instantaneously" anyway?
no one.


evil ryu says otherwise. even evilryu with all his satsui no hadou, wasn't able to kill sagat. that's your hint to stop taking everything for granted.
think about it, Art of fighting and KoF moves are called lethal moves, super deadly and murderous as well. no one dies there either.


grow up


and the SFA anime was only licensed. besides Saiki has interviewd the officials there.


you're missing the point. the bullets were shot from point blank range or very close by. i know bullets don't top sound speed. cloud was parrying the bullets upclose and from far away. in fact, when he was close by he was swatting them away...if cloud was standing behind his sword, i'd say so. but he wasn't. he was smacking them away or parrying them.


wasn't that move only done by "orochi akuma" in CvsSNK2 only? my memory's vague at the moment.


probably. gouhadouken or hadoukens don't incinerate. never did. SFA movie was noncanon and directly contradicts interviews with capcom officials which stated that hadouken feels like being hit by a well landed kick.

case in point: ryu can incinerate people with punches and kicks...but couldnt KO midtier Hugo. he didn't even scar him. also, why didn't sagat just disintegrate when evil ryu did the MESTU-shoryuken on him?

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
no they weren't. they were bullets charged with materia which makes them even stronger and faster.
Evidently not. Can you find a source stating this?
Originally posted by Sado22
as far as my reasoning is concerned, you're still denying the fact that Cloud was fast enough to parry bullets.
What the hell? I never denied this at all, I said that you were overstating the actual implication of this. Keep up.
Originally posted by Sado22
furthermore, the one dressing things up is you by calling it 'swatting'
Oh my GOD, please go and YouTube that fight right now. Go watch it right now and tell me that ISN'T swatting bullets aside. Seriously.

And furthermore how's using the word "swatting" classified as dressing things up? What is this logic?
Originally posted by Sado22
and actually pretending that it nulls my point while clearly ignoring what i'm trying to say.
No, once again keep up. If you read my reply above I was stating that the durability of steel (his sword) < durability of Gouki, that nulls your opint.
Originally posted by Sado22
what i'm saying is that he's very, very fast in his swordweilding
He's much faster than the actual human at swordplay, but watch the final battle from FFAC. He's very, very fast, just not beyond-the-eye superhuman-fast. In fact, he's not much speedier than martial artists; he simply is a lot stronger and can weird a gigantic broadsword the same way normal humans weild rapiers and sabers.
Originally posted by Sado22
and can definitely parry off fireballs from akuma...
Considering that Sephiroth wasn't even able to parry more than two or three fireballs from Genesis? Also, watch the part in the Malheim fight where Sephiroth pretty much breaks off the upper part of an entire building and Cloud separates his sword into two to parry all the falling debris. Cloud's projectile parry speed is fast, but not significantly fast.

If Gouki pulled off the Level 2 super (the one with like 20 spammed air-Zankuhadokens) then he wouldn't be able to parry them all.

Originally posted by Sado22
considering especially that the fireballs are weak and have no speed feat.
It's been stated with Ryu's fire-hadouken that anyone who comes into contact with it is singed badly, while on the other hand whoever comes into contact with Akuma's version "risks instant immolation".

Originally posted by Sado22
tatsumaki-senpuukyaku=tornado whirldwind kick
so now from your reasoning ryu or ken become tornados.
What reasoning? Move translations? I don't even know where that came from.
Originally posted by Sado22
you have no proof of that. and cloud cuts right through steel or anything.
I believe JustFrame (I think it was) provided proof of that earlier in this thread.
Originally posted by Sado22
in fact, the buster sword's description it is said to be able to cut through "anything" (source, wiki)
Didn't cut through Kadaj's double katana, or Sephiroth's Masamune (which is a given anyway). And Wiki's are not an official source of information as it is, sorry to say.
Originally posted by Sado22
cop out.
Deny it how you will, but they are two different things completely.

You're talking about them like they are and when I point this out, you instantly say, "cop out". That's like your number one weapon, you've used it numerous times in debates with me in the past and you've used it more than once in this thread as well.

Excuses, that's all it is.
Originally posted by Sado22
try to understand the context of what the other person is saying, DarkC.
Read above; you're in no position to lecture anyone on misunderstanding concept.
Originally posted by Sado22
well that's good to hear. i hate cloud and i hate akuma. the only reason i watched final fantasy AD and played the game was because of Tifa.
Yeah, I'm sure...

Originally posted by Sado22
you are supporting the character that you like more than the one that comes much lower on your fav list or about the same, as far as i can tell.
No, they're about equal.

I don't know which move I like more, Misogi or AC Omnislash.
Originally posted by Sado22
as opposed to me who is supporting the character he considers even more overrated than gouki.
Quote me where you considered Cloud more overrated than Gouki before it all started then.
Originally posted by Sado22
does that imply that you're biased. no it doesn't. it just means that you're entitled to an opinion.
Yes, and opinions can be biased. You're still not getting it.
Originally posted by Sado22
so please, don't use the "biased" card on me again.
I'm not going to dress it up that you're biased. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Sado22
P.S. here's something for you to consider (source wiki):
Gunblades have a gun-like handle which contains a firing mechanism but are not considered projectile as the firing mechanism only makes the blade vibrate causing extra damage, and does not fire any actual shells, with the exception of Yazoo's gunblades from Final Fantasy VII Advent Children, and Weiss's twin Gunblades, shown in Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus
Sorry, but Wikis are not an "official" source of information.

Not the fireball version; Ryu's only singes (because he doesn't want to hurt), while Akuma's immolates instantly.

Being crushed to paste by water pressure > sword wound

No, "orochi" Akuma is simply enhanced Akuma with much more power. Absorbing Orochi from Rugal Bernstein didn't instantly give him the knowledge of new moves that he's never before pulled off.

U. Rugal on the other hand is different, he learned the Ashura warp and Shungokusatsu by absorbing Akuma. Which technically isn't even canon, according to the layout of CvS2 Akuma won anyway.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
I'll answer this one by one.

1. cloud blocks those bullets with his 6 combined sword. swinging that sword with one hand is awesome. so what if that's a giant sword? it's a shame if he can't parry those bullets with his sword. maybe bullets doesn't have a sound speed. but it is very fast. can you even see the bullet if someone shot you with a handgun?

2. please note that gouki split ayers rock in half with kongou kokuretsuzan.

3. we're not talking about ryu. we're talking about gouki. and since when ryu has gou hadouken? even ryu's hadouken is just a well landed kick. don't tell me cloud would be killed with a "well landed kick" 1. And the sword is like 2-3 feet wide. Which makes blocking the bullets easier.

2. And that is all Misogi is, a super focused Kongou Kokuretsuzan.

3. Well...Yeah actually. A well landed kick from Gouki will blow Cloud in half.

Originally posted by Sado22
you're missing the point. the bullets were shot from point blank range or very close by. i know bullets don't top sound speed. cloud was parrying the bullets upclose and from far away. in fact, when he was close by he was swatting them away...if cloud was standing behind his sword, i'd say so. but he wasn't. he was smacking them away or parrying them.


wasn't that move only done by "orochi akuma" in CvsSNK2 only? my memory's vague at the moment.


probably. gouhadouken or hadoukens don't incinerate. never did. SFA movie was noncanon and directly contradicts interviews with capcom officials which stated that hadouken feels like being hit by a well landed kick.

case in point: ryu can incinerate people with punches and kicks...but couldnt KO midtier Hugo. he didn't even scar him. also, why didn't sagat just disintegrate when evil ryu did the MESTU-shoryuken on him?

~Sado 1. All I am saying is the size of the sword does make it easier. And Cloud does not have Gouki's movement speed btw.

2. No.

3. Hadouken from Ryu does, wanna know why? He weakened them so they would not kill. Gouki's moves are meant to kill in one blow.

Wtf does that have to do with what we were arguing? The Metsu Shoryuken did however cut the fvck out of Sagat with a graze. And Gouki with a kick can blow Cloud in half. And also, picture this, Gouki is faster on his feet than Cloud, he can bum rush him, and just grab him and hold his arms in place, he is much stronger, and can snap Cloud in half.

i know what you're saying. i'm pointing out the fact that you're oversimplifying the whole thing by saying that cloud's doing it cuz his sword is big. that's not the reason. he had the skill to do it...AND he was parrying them with the blade at times.


i don't seem to recall shin gouki doing it ever...except in CvsSNK2.


i know they've been taught a toned down version of ansatsuken ryu. i know that. the point is that, the hadouken feels like a well-landed kick. capcom officials said so. end of story.
all it ever said about ryu "weakening" his moves was about the shakunetsu-hadouken. he can make the flames burn badly but resorts to the mild one.
now please don't tell me ryu is supersaiyan if he "goes into killing mode" because that's bull. case in point: evil ryu does an advanced shoryuken full of dark hadou to Sagat........and only scars him. sf3 ryu who is about as powerful as SF1 evil Ryu does a shinshoryuken.......and couldn't even kill Hugo. he does his ultimate move, which he tauts as the greatest force, and can't knock down hugo. if ryu actually was as powerful as that pile a' garbage anime was showing him to be, why didn't sagat incinerate on impact? why didn't hugo just freakin melt away? surely if he could melt away the guy who was pwning birdie, ken and chunli for free then he can do it to Sagat. and if not sagat, then at least midtier, generic thug Hugo.

that's where "ryu can kill with one move" argument loses me.


not a graze. definitely NOT a graze. full force impact that also caught the poor guy by surprise.


if you mean tenma kyuujin kyaku, then yeah. otherwise, no.


speculation.


MORTAL KOMBAT!!

picture this, cloud is too fast with the sword. unless you're telling me that gouki moves faster than bullets which you have no proof of. and has been shown to jump and dash at far greater speed. on top of that he can teleport six-ways with omnislash.

Gouki=dead
*solid snake then snipes cloud and we have no more overrated bastardsd to worry about*

~Sado
P.S. all i seem to be encountering are what i call "SF Myths" which fans tell eachother and seem to know but actually have no proof of.

Originally posted by Sado22

MORTAL KOMBAT!!

And you're telling someone else to grow up...how rich.
Originally posted by Sado22
picture this, cloud is too fast with the sword. and has been shown to jump and dash at far greater speed.
Those aren't really "in-combat" factors. Agility on his feet would be more appropriate, and from what I've seen, he's not particularly quick on his feet.
Originally posted by Sado22
on top of that he can teleport six-ways with omnislash.
Can he spam that move? No. If he pulls that off, Gouki just teleports through it, and counters with a Misogi while Cloud is landing.

Once Gouki gets in real close the sword will be completely useless. A blade the size of a Buster Sword has a minimum "dead" range where you can't exactly swing it.
Originally posted by Sado22
P.S. all i seem to be encountering are what i call "SF Myths" which fans tell eachother and seem to know but actually have no proof of.

Explain.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. And the sword is like 2-3 feet wide. Which makes blocking the bullets easier.

2. And that is all Misogi is, a super focused Kongou Kokuretsuzan.

3. Well...Yeah actually. A well landed kick from Gouki will blow Cloud in half.

1. but it's harder to swing such a big sword like that.

2. is this gouki or shin gouki?

3. gouki has no kicking feat. every of his feats involved his fist. besides, no one had been killed by gou hadouken.

He kicked a Submarine from the bottom of the ocean out of the water.

Do you know how much stenth would be required to do that? That is Dragon Ball Z level strength.

Actually...

The Misogi is a gigantic slashing chop from the sky, it incorporates instantaneous movement with the ability to slice through objects, including opponents.

The Kongou Kokuretsu Zan however, is an extremely enhanced punch into the ground, designed to destroy (Or in the case of ayers rock, slice in 2) anything beneath him.

The two attacks are very different from each other... both in effect, and in motion.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
1. but it's harder to swing such a big sword like that.

2. is this gouki or shin gouki?

3. gouki has no kicking feat. every of his feats involved his fist. besides, no one had been killed by gou hadouken. 1. I know. I am saying since he has the strength to do it, using a large sword is easier.

2. Does it matter? Shin Gouki is just Gouki going all out, which according to the rules of vs. threads, he is.

3. sawFg3DeTJU

What's that failing sound? It's you.

he's nowhere near DBZ level.

if he has DBZ level strength, he would blow the planet with some of his power. cloud also can smack a giant dragon down, cut the giant steel effortlessly. besides, no proof gouki was immune against blades.

@dark-jaxx : give me the links

do you mean tenshou kairiki jin? you call that a kick?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
he's nowhere near DBZ level.

if he has DBZ level strength, he would blow the planet with some of his power. cloud also can smack a giant dragon down, cut the giant steel effortlessly. besides, no proof gouki was immune against blades. Physically, his feats dwarf the DBZers.

That giant dragon feat is nothing on hacky sacky a submarine from 3,000 leagues under the sea to above the surface.

Gouki kicks through steel. Woopty doo.

Fixed the vid.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Physically, his feats dwarf the DBZers.


Just off the top of my head, Vegetto has soccer kicked away a power blast from Buu that could've easily destroyed the planet, DBZ fighters basically crack mountains just by tossing eachother into them.

Goku transforming into SSJ3 quaked the entire planet.

Come on now, Gouki physically superior to DBZ fighters? I mean I heard Gouki was overrated on this board but wow, I guess it really is true.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Actually...

The Misogi is a gigantic slashing chop from the sky, it incorporates instantaneous movement with the ability to slice through objects, including opponents.

The Kongou Kokuretsu Zan however, is an extremely enhanced punch into the ground, designed to destroy (Or in the case of ayers rock, slice in 2) anything beneath him.

The two attacks are very different from each other... both in effect, and in motion.

Hey. Shut up.

i gave you a source. now its just your word against wiki's. besides, why would they make up stuff for this particular info?


for all your intelligence and maturity you seem to fall short the moment the argument gets a little tangled. calm down.
you've seem to be implying that since he's swatting the bullets that its not as much of a speed feat. infact, he's been parrying some and swatting others throughout the movie. that pretty much makes his already impressive feat, all the more impressive.


that whole calm down thing again.
like i said, swatting makes it all the more impressive, really.


you accused me of "dressing things up". you tell me.


gouk is not superman. no official source or otherwise states that can he is immune to sword attacks or blades. in fact, prior to you and dark-jaxx i've never heard of such SF folklore in all my years of research and gaming.


gouki isn't "beyond-the-eye" at all. also cloud has the omnislash which IS instantaneous.


for one, he was standing one one of his swords cuz he was about to fall down. its logical that he takes out the other sword. what's even more logical is that once he lunges forward, he uses both swords to slash through the debri which would make sense too. why use one sword to do something when you can use two? and seriously, are trying to insinuate that although cloud can parry/swat bullets with one sword that he cant do the same with giant slow-ass debri?


that's a different move altogether. its not a speed feat.


source?
also, i've already pointed out the fact that for all its names, ansatsuken karate seems to be able to kill only normal people. gouki hasn't really killed anyone with moves besides SGS. gen, oro, ryu, gouken etc all fought him and walked away without even scars. its "deadly" about in the same way as kyokugenryu's "super-death attacks".


proof of what?


dude, that's cuz the sword's blade was matching the other sword's blade. use your head. ever heard the expression 'poison matches poison. blade matches blade"? the reason why the sword wasn't cutting through kadage's blade or sephiroth's blade was because their sword's blade was equal in sharpness to cloud's. that's the idea of sword fighting.

the rest i'll debate later. GTG.

~Sado

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. I know. I am saying since he has the strength to do it, using a large sword is easier.

2. Does it matter? Shin Gouki is just Gouki going all out, which according to the rules of vs. threads, he is.

3. sawFg3DeTJU

What's that failing sound? It's you.

1. so? the fact is cloud parry those bullets with a six combined swords and capable to parry it. while it's easier to parry, it's harder to swing it. that's the advantage and also risk.

2. no prob.

3. so is that a kick? if so, ok. but it looks like an uppercut for me. also I still have no proof gou hadouken could kill someone. don't tell me gou hadouken and tenshou kairiki jin are two same thing. besides, cloud could cut the giant steel in half too.

the akuma fans seem to confuse "a kick" with "special arts" which is by no means just a kick. like destroying mountains with "just a punch" when akuma calls it his ultimate techinique which is ki based (and a raging storm spoof).

just a punch.....

if every of gouki's punch and kicks could destroy an island, split a mountain in half, and destroy a ship, then he could kill every SF characters with one punch. one word : bull.

Originally posted by Sado22
the akuma fans seem to confuse "a kick" with "special arts" which is by no means just a kick. like destroying mountains with "just a punch" when akuma calls it his ultimate techinique which is ki based (and a raging storm spoof).

just a punch.....

Unfortunately... his biggest canonicat feat> sinking the island< was just a punch... and he was weaker in Alpha 2 anyways...

Anywho, the Tenshou Kaireki Jin is a kick, just as the Tenma Kuujin Kuyaku and Tatsumaki Zanku Kuyaku are kicks...

Originally posted by Sado22
i gave you a source. now its just your word against wiki's. besides, why would they make up stuff for this particular info?
Find me an official source, as I've said. Trying to avoid it isn't going to help you at all.
Originally posted by Sado22
for all your intelligence and maturity you seem to fall short the moment the argument gets a little tangled. calm down.
As usual, you start patronizing non-existent tempers...quite predictable, really.
Originally posted by Sado22
you've seem to be implying that since he's swatting the bullets that its not as much of a speed feat.
No, not even close. It's a speed feat, but you're taking it a little too far in regard to the actual speed of the bullets as shown.
Originally posted by Sado22
infact, he's been parrying some and swatting others throughout the movie. that pretty much makes his already impressive feat, all the more impressive.
It's a great feat, but then again he isn't using a thin sword like the masamune, is he? He's essentially relying on the massiveness of the First Tsurugi to get most of those parries through.
Originally posted by Sado22
that whole calm down thing again.
Read above, your so-called "debate" tactics remain fresh in my memory even now. You really haven't changed much, have you?
Originally posted by Sado22
like i said, swatting makes it all the more impressive, really.
No, he's essentially swinging a gigantic sword about as tall as him and almost as broad and deflecting bullets.

It's impressive, though not as much as if he were to use a smaller weapon.
Originally posted by Sado22
you accused me of "dressing things up". you tell me.
Normally, Sado, when someone accuses the other of dressing one thing up, it makes no sense at all to simply toss it back with the exact same accusation. You're just evading the question, that's all.
Originally posted by Sado22
gouk is not superman. no official source or otherwise states that can he is immune to sword attacks or blades.
Immune to blades, maybe not, but Gouki > Steel, as JustFrame said earlier.
Originally posted by Sado22
in fact, prior to you and dark-jaxx i've never heard of such SF folklore in all my years of research and gaming.
Originally posted by Sado22
gouki isn't "beyond-the-eye" at all.
Ashura Warp, which is why he's intangible.
Originally posted by Sado22
also cloud has the omnislash which IS instantaneous.
And like I said, Gouki just turns intangible (it's instantaneous, right?) and counters with Misogi while Cloud lands (he's disarmed while he lands too, by the way).

Cloud would be stupid to try to pull off the Omnislash on Gouki unless he had a gigantic opening.
Originally posted by Sado22
for one, he was standing one one of his swords cuz he was about to fall down. its logical that he takes out the other sword. what's even more logical is that once he lunges forward, he uses both swords to slash through the debri which would make sense too. why use one sword to do something when you can use two? and seriously, are trying to insinuate that although cloud can parry/swat bullets with one sword that he cant do the same with giant slow-ass debri?
I wasn't underrating Cloud or insulting any of his abilities at all, so all that is just wasted on me. Noise, in other terms. You still need to learn how to read posts in their context, I see.

Here, I'll quote myself directly.

Fact: Cloud separates his sword into two.
Fact: Cloud parries all the falling debris.

I stated two facts quite clearly and plainly, with no implying whatsoever.
Originally posted by Sado22
that's a different move altogether. its not a speed feat.
Yeah, I never said it was. Keep up.

I was implying that this particular move by Gouki would not be countered by Cloud's speed.
Originally posted by Sado22
source?
Tiamat's Street Fighter Plot Guide I believe. Maybe from somewhere else.
Originally posted by Sado22
also, i've already pointed out the fact that for all its names, ansatsuken karate seems to be able to kill only normal people. gouki hasn't really killed anyone with moves besides SGS.
Shungokusatsu is an ansatsuken move; Gouken never taught it to his students.

All his supers possess the capability to kill from their descriptions. His physical supers slices through the opponent (messatsu goushoryu can kill "instantly" as well).
Originally posted by Sado22
gen, oro, ryu, gouken etc all fought him and walked away without even scars.
Gen was coughing up blood after, and Gouken was technically stronger than his brother at that particular time frame anyways.

Akuma wasn't even trying on Ryu, and I doubt he and Oro were going full out on each other, seeing as it was a "simple, inconclusive battle".
Originally posted by Sado22
proof of what?
You're asking me for proof and now you don't even know what it was for?

Proof that Gouki is stronger than steel.
Originally posted by Sado22
the reason why the sword wasn't cutting through kadage's blade or sephiroth's blade was because their sword's blade was equal in sharpness to cloud's. that's the idea of sword fighting.
And your claim that the buster sword (or First Tsurugi, in this case) can cut through "anything" just got refuted by yourself, congrats.

i found you a source without you asking for one. and now since you've got nothing to actually back yourself up...you copout.


if you don't want me to think you're angry cut back on the caps lock, genius. capslock in online conversation express yelling, anger, frustration and annoyance.
oh and saying "MY GOD" etc isn't helping your case much either.


they were bullets. what do you suggest they were? pellets? just cuz you see them doesn't make them not bullets. on top of that they were materia charged which only makes them faster and stronger.

and exactly what are you assuming was coming out of those pistols anyway? they were gunblades and IIRC they were modified revolvers. or something along those lines.


he's using the blade end a couple of times. infact (i saw FFAC a few years ago) but most of the time in fact i remember him using the blade end.


back at ya. your copouts are as good as ever.
so is your temper


you can say that to feel better. all i see is you blame me for something you're doing yourself.


refresh my memory. there is no proof of "gouki>steel"


what? that's not true. that's teleportation. aint got nothing to do with speed, mang.


er....gouki dies after omnislash.
and not it aint instantaneous either. no proof of that. and the one time akuma teleports on-screen it took a while (Akuma SFA2 ending)
and why am i thinking that misogi was only from CvsSNK2? i don't recall him doing it in anyother game. sorry but i haven't played any SF in a very long time


which he wouldn't need because the move is instantaneous. Sephiroth for instance was already ready for a counter but got pwned before he knew what happened.


didn't say you were insulting him. i said are you trying to suggest that cloud took out TWO swords to parry the debri.
lets take a closer look:

the bold parts say otherwise. why were you pointing it out unless you weren't trying to prove something. are you creating "noise"?


okay, my bad then.


i remember him saying akuma's can be lethal. and you know what, i'll agree with the instantimolation.
still....not disintegration. and not by a longshot. capiche?


you mean goutetsu? gouken was ryu and ken's master. not gouki's. and goutetsu did teach gouken and gouki the SGS. it was a part of anastsuken karate's course then.


i know they can kill. yes. but so far, all they seem to kill are regular people. read over what i said again. these moves don't kill anyone who can actually fight. he's never killed anyone (i repeat anyone) with his moves besides the SGS on Bison...which was also more of a cheapshot considering he just jumped in and did to Bison when they weren't even fighting. but that's another story.


Gen was coughing up blood in akuma's ending....which was non-canon. also coughing up blood is not a good argument considering that we're talking about "so-called" onehit killing moves. also Gen was suffering from lukemia at the time.

as for Gouken, true, but even when he came back for round2, gouken wasn't killed off with one blow.

"wasn't even trying"? nope. he wasn't fighting him on the Shin-akuma level, yes, but still how much was he holding back is unknown. so your point is moot since noone here knows the exact difference between shinakuma and akuma in terms of power.


instead of acting clever, how about you read over that post again. here i'll help you out:

if two swords are equally sharp or comparably sharp, then they wont cut through eachother. that's one of the most commonly known things about sword fighting. that's why when a ronin fought a samurai in the old days they didn't just chop through eachother's sword but instead the battles would be epic. same applied to sword fights in any part of the world in any time or era.


nope it wasn't. i doubt "showing him his true power" means a "just a punch" darko. it was the kongoukokusretsuzan because the action was the same, the explosion of ki was the same and the result was more of less the same. and it was gouki showing off his true power...which was more or less synonomous with what he was doing in SF33rd strike ending as well.
and that island didn't "sink". there is no proof of that nor does it say anywhere that it sank.


i didn't say they were mutated horns or something. i said they aren't "just regular kicks". they are specials. saying akuma destroyed the submarine with "just kicks" is like me saying kyo laid out a god with "just a punch".
they weren't "just kicks or punches". they were fullly powered specials.

you don't kyo would lay out orochi with a half-assed pussyslap now do you?

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
i found you a source without you asking for one. and now since you've got nothing to actually back yourself up...you copout.
Back myself up, on what? I'm asking you here, not the other way around. No. You're the one copping out if anything. I asked you to find me a direct official source that states this; you don't. You simply just avoid it and attempt to turn it around in yet another "cop out" retort.

You've done it numerous times in "Ken Masters vs Paul Phoenix", you're doing it again now. Stop already.
Originally posted by Sado22
if you don't want me to think you're angry cut back on the caps lock, genius. capslock in online conversation express yelling, anger, frustration and annoyance.
Yes, because you're a so-called expert on deciphering emotions, right? Not everyone uses caps lock simply because they're as you said, frustrated/yelling/anger. Suggesting such is VERY narrow minded of you.

I use it when I'm too lazy to type/click the italics to emphasize something, in the previous case exasperation at your blindness, as demonstrated above. It's really sad how you insist on dragging this topic off-track simply for the case of defending the fact that you're patronizing something that doesn't even exist. I'll continue to use capitals to emphasize as I wish, thanks.
Originally posted by Sado22
oh and saying "MY GOD" etc isn't helping your case much either.
My case on what? Saying "MY GOD" in big capital letters turns me into a froth-mouthed, raging poster, right?
Originally posted by Sado22
they were bullets. what do you suggest they were? pellets? just cuz you see them doesn't make them not bullets.
Where on Earth did this come from?

For spirit's sake, stop jumping to ridiculous conclusions. I acknowledged at least once or twice that they were bullets; however, you're overhyping the fact that they are bullets and attempting to use it. Just because they're bullets doesn't make them all travel at constant speed or a path.

Was it a bullet from a handgun?
Was it a bullet from a heavy revolver?
Was it a bullet from an assault rifle?
Was it a bullet from a sniper rifle?

What make was the gun?
Direction? Wind speed?

Saying that "they're bullets" means absolutely nothing to me, Sado; the circumstances do.
Originally posted by Sado22
on top of that they were materia charged which only makes them faster and stronger.
Stronger, yes. They were able to punch dents into the First Tsurugi.

Faster? No, if anything they seemed even slower than a bullet fired from a normal handgun. Even an M68 bullet traveled faster than that.
Originally posted by Sado22
and exactly what are you assuming was coming out of those pistols anyway?
Bullets, as I've just said?
Originally posted by Sado22
they were gunblades and IIRC they were modified revolvers. or something along those lines.
Modified revolvers.
Originally posted by Sado22
he's using the blade end a couple of times. infact (i saw FFAC a few years ago) but most of the time in fact i remember him using the blade end.
No, he was using the flat of the blade most, if not all, of the time.
Originally posted by Sado22
back at ya. your copouts are as good as ever.
so is your temper
What temper?

Seriously, every post I see:
"Now see here, Sado..."
"Copout"
"Actually, Sado..."
"Copout"
"But if you just look at this, Sado..."
"Copout"

If that isn't a poor excuse for a retort, I don't know what is. You just did it again. I keep having to push this under your nose, and judging from what I've seen from you I will likely continue to do so.
Originally posted by Sado22
you can say that to feel better. all i see is you blame me for something you're doing yourself.
I told you to read above because you were taking something entirely out of context. No. MULTIPLE times now, you've taken something that I've said entirely out of context, or misread the question.

Where's your proof that I've been doing more than you have?
You're avoiding the blame by putting it on someone else; in this case, myself.

Which happens to be the typical definition of a "copout". Hypocrite.
Originally posted by Sado22
refresh my memory. there is no proof of "gouki>steel"
Read JustFrame's arguments earlier in this thread.
Originally posted by Sado22
what? that's not true. that's teleportation. aint got nothing to do with speed, mang.
Which explains why he is COMPLETELY invincible during the move, right? I didn't say it had to do with speed, it just makes him intangible. You can't slice nothingness and expect to do damage.
Originally posted by Sado22
er....gouki dies after omnislash.
No, because it doesn't hit him. Period.
Originally posted by Sado22
and not it aint instantaneous either. no proof of that. and the one time akuma teleports on-screen it took a while (Akuma SFA2 ending)
What, Misogi or Ashura Warp? Misogi is instantaneous. Ashura warp is a slow-ass teleport, but it has very fast startup. Ashura doesn't NEED to be fast, it makes him invincible for a short amount of time, just enough to let him avoid Omnislash.
Originally posted by Sado22
and why am i thinking that misogi was only from CvsSNK2? i don't recall him doing it in anyother game. sorry but i haven't played any SF in a very long time
Misogi was used first in CvS2, correct. Gouki had apparently learned it by that time frame.
Originally posted by Sado22
which he wouldn't need because the move is instantaneous.
The charge up for it isn't. As soon as Gouki sees the swords separate he'd just ashura warp through it. The man has reflexes to the point of ridiculousness, remember.
Originally posted by Sado22
Sephiroth for instance was already ready for a counter but got pwned before he knew what happened.
No, Sephiroth was PREPARING for a counter. He was almost ready for it when Cloud pulled Omnislash V5 off and owned him. Your memory fails you.
Originally posted by Sado22
didn't say you were insulting him. i said are you trying to suggest that cloud took out TWO swords to parry the debri.
And he quite plainly did, he separated the F. Tsurugi into two to parry that debris. Also, the First Tsurugi is FAR superior as one united blade than as two different ones. Or are you denying that?
Originally posted by Sado22
the bold parts say otherwise. why were you pointing it out unless you weren't trying to prove something. are you creating "noise"?
You said you haven't seen the movie in years, right?

I'm adding those parts (which are actually relevant) in order to clarify which scene I was talking about in the first place, and describing what happened.
Originally posted by Sado22
still....not disintegration. and not by a longshot. capiche?
Alright.
Originally posted by Sado22
you mean goutetsu? gouken was ryu and ken's master. not gouki's. and goutetsu did teach gouken and gouki the SGS. it was a part of anastsuken karate's course then.
Yes, that's why I said it was an ansatsuken move and that Gouken did not teach it to his students...I'm not even sure why you brought this up.
Originally posted by Sado22
i know they can kill. yes. but so far, all they seem to kill are regular people.
That's because for the most part Gouki has pulled them off on regular people.
Originally posted by Sado22
read over what i said again. these moves don't kill anyone who can actually fight.
And when, canonically, has he actually pulled off any other specials in the fights that he's gotten into?
Originally posted by Sado22
"wasn't even trying"? nope. he wasn't fighting him on the Shin-akuma level, yes, but still how much was he holding back is unknown. so your point is moot since noone here knows the exact difference between shinakuma and akuma in terms of power.
No, but we do know to some extent from what gameplay offers (he has ridiculously low defence and stamina) and what he did to Ryu during that fight; remember, Gouki was taunting him and also encouraging him to embrace Satsui No Hadou. Then when Gouki decided to leave, he pretty much owned Ryu without actually hurting him (sunk the island they were on with Kongoretsu (or whatever it was called) and left. This is why I believe he wasn't even trying with Ryu; Ken was actually trying and he got owned easily by Akuma, and we know that Ryu isn't a whole world better than Ken.
Originally posted by Sado22
if two swords are equally sharp or comparably sharp, then they wont cut through eachother. that's one of the most commonly known things about sword fighting. that's why when a ronin fought a samurai in the old days they didn't just chop through eachother's sword but instead the battles would be epic. same applied to sword fights in any part of the world in any time or era.
No, it has to do with strength of the material, not how sharp it is. Also, the First Tsurugi is more of a crushing weapon with a sharp edge. Sharpness means nothing if the material he's hacking at is stronger.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
1. so? the fact is cloud parry those bullets with a six combined swords and capable to parry it. while it's easier to parry, it's harder to swing it. that's the advantage and also risk.

2. no prob.

3. so is that a kick? if so, ok. but it looks like an uppercut for me. also I still have no proof gou hadouken could kill someone. don't tell me gou hadouken and tenshou kairiki jin are two same thing. besides, cloud could cut the giant steel in half too. 1. What I am saying is that because he has the sufficient strength, blocking bullets is more efficient when he uses that blade.

2. Yeah it is, can't remember the technique name though. And Sephiroth would not be able to replicate that feat with his sword, Cloud can't either.

you didn't ask for proof, official or otherwise. i was supporting my point with a source. something you haven't done. and instead you resorted to claiming my source wasn't reliable. what we have here is you not asking for something, me saying something with a source, and then you claiming that the source isn't reliable. and then i stated that i'm going to take wiki's word over your's. infact, later on in your reply you actually agree that they are bullets. so i don't really need a source now do i?


stop what? proving that you have memory problems?
what needs to stop is you throwing words at people....


...like this.
i'm telling you a general rule of online talking. capslock are considered rude and are actually band on some sites and blogs because of what they connotate. why? because the suggest aggression, anger, frustration and are just plain annoying. you don't want to be misunderstood, well, then stop posting in capslock. simple as that.


nope. just some guy whose taking it all way more seriously than he should. 'twas all.


...
you actually gave it all away right there.
case closed.
and what exactly do you call, calling me "biased", "narrow-minded" and "sad"? expression of joy and mutual respect?


i'm pretty sure somehwere in this thread you claimed that they weren't bullets. but i could be wrong. if you weren't saying that, my bad.
interestingly though, this does put an interesting spin to "ryu being able to dodge bullets" (and by extension akuma). what's your stand on that? can akuma dodge .45 rounds, sniper rounds or good old revolver rounds? and what rounds were being parried by cloud. since they were revolvers they could be any of several. how about you go a wiki source and point out the firing speed of all these bulletheads?
otherwise, we'll just assume that they all travel way too damn fast for the human reflexes...whcih is why cloud swatting them is so impressive. and which is why he'd dodge any projectile from gouki, cuz gouki don't shoot them that fast. not by a long shot.



how about:
"i hate cloud more than gouki but i think cloud wins"
"MY GOD YOURE SO BIASED!"
"chill dude"
"YOURE SO NARROW MINDED!"
"relax. i just think that since he can dodge bullets then he can dodge stuff from gouki"
"BUT GOUKI IS TOUGHER THAN STEEL"
"where does it say that?"
"I DONT KNOW. HE JUST IS CUZ SOMEGUY SAID IT"
"thats not proof"
"YOUR SO SAD"
"chill man."
"YOUR NARROWMINDED, SAD and BIASED"
"well, in communications skills they teach you that capslock signify anger, aggression and frustration in online conversation. that's why i thought you were mad?"
"IM NOT ANGRY OR FRUSTRATED. I'M JUST EXASPERATED!"
"err...like that."
"I AM NOT MAD!" *turns big and green and starts smashing stuff*


another title thrown at me, by Darkc. yay.


-it takes him a while to pull it off, which in an upfront fight with cloud would be pretty hard. if not impossible.
-we were talking about being "beyond-the-eye", in other words we were talking about speed.


true. but whether he can pull it off while having to dodge cloud's sword in an upclose fight is debatable.


i was talking ashura wara in gouki's SFA2 ending.
anyway, granted that ashura warp if used properly would work for gouki. however, for the 3rd time, the one time he actually did it on screen, it took him a few seconds to pull it off...which i don't see happening with cloud. i could be wrong though.
hence, i concede your point. at the same time, the same can be argued for cloud who not only turns intangible, but also has fast start up time, is faster and goes six ways. he just has more advantages as opposed to gouki.
do you concede that much?


so its canon? and is this there on tiamat?


how would gouki know what is coming? if sephiroth was caught off-gaurd by it even though he's seen an earlier version and has fought both zack and cloud before, i doubt gouki who has never even heard of the thing would know what to expect. the way i see it is this:
cloud: *spins his sword around*
gouki: okay, so he' gonna dash towards me...okay, seriously wtf? what's with that sword. oh sh...!" *dead*


i said Sephiroth was ready for a counter. you say he was "preparing" for one. in the end, its the same thing: seph was gonna do a counter hadn't it been for the omnislash, right? and he looked ready to me. having your sword across you with a smirk on your face while your opponent jumps at you means that you have a countermove to pull off...or you're thinking about something funny for absolutely no reason.


i know that. and don't shift the question. i asked you if you are trying to insist that he can't dodge debri though he can dodge bullets...and i'm doing it a third time now.


fair enough.


actually i meant to say the gouki seems to be capable of killing only normal people. my bad there. all his so called "instand killers" seem to fail miserably when it comes to someone who can actually fight.


if he was there to kill gouken and gen, then i assume, yes he did. heck, he went so far as to do the SGS to gen didn't he?


you're entitled to an opinion. but that's just what it is isn't it? and gameplay doesn't really offer too much about a character.


and what if they're made from the same material and are about as sharp? then what happens?

~Sado

i read through 4 pages of Justframe's posts. i see no proof, no backup and mostly fanboy rambling. where is this proof you're talking about?

Sado, I would like you to know the reason I am not answering your posts is they are horrendously long.

no probs

Yeah, that's Dark-Jaxx's favorite cop-out. 131

He likes to call them "word quilts". haermm

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Yeah, that's Dark-Jaxx's favorite cop-out. 131

He likes to call them "word quilts". haermm I pwned you in the Zabuza and Haku vs. Neji and Rock Lee thread. haermm

if RL and Neji were still genin, Zabuza and Haku would pwn them.

Originally posted by Terryc250
if RL and Neji were still genin, Zabuza and Haku would pwn them. It was after timeskip. I still pwned him. 313

I was supporting Zabuza and Haku.

great... gouki vs cloud thread has been changed to zabuza & haku vs rock lee & neji thread.

wel...its still better than Gouki vs cloud turning into another sadomasochism thread whip

There is no need for another thread. I would pwn you on that debate with manga proofz like I did Blax. 313

i don't remember it that way.
and you're talking about karin kanzuki, who fought ken once and lost, then fought him again and lost and is his rival in hotel industry since that's what ken does and that's what karin's family does. or something along those lines. so what irony are you talking about?


well in three paragraphs you've more or less said the same thing so i'm just going to reply to this one.
made mistakes in SF and FF plots? like what?
you're the one whose been resorting to telling me unproved folklores and acting like they are facts. and everytime my memory was shady i always mentioned it because IIRC: if i remember correct


garbage? communication204 says otherwise


.....*what i've said before. and before that. and before that*


which proved i wasn't.


i've said twice already that i hate cloud more than gouki. stop right there.


like saying parrying instead of swatting...even though swatting imo makes it more impressive?


when you say "MY GOD" and "stop being so bloody biased" i'd assume you're angry. its normal for me to think it, because since this is an online discussion i can't do face reading or read your body language. its pretty simple when you think about it.





sorry.


it all boils down to neither of us knowing what make it was and hence, saying they were slower or faster than regular bullets (whatever that is) is pointless. capiche?


in the forest when they were fighting on ground and not on the bikes, cloud was swatting the bullets with much ease. in fact, the most impressive bit was when Loz and yazoo were shooting at him on the tree and he was swatting the bullets even though they were a few feet from him. in fact, i think it was about 5 feet away. that was impressive, and that's the scene i remember best because it was damn impressive. and that's the scene which i keep in mind when i say that cloud can parry\swat bullets because not only was he doing it when very close to the shooter but he was doing it with one sword. and he wasn't holding it in front of him or using the size. if anything, weilding a 6foot blade at close range is very hard. which really makes it all the move impressive.
do you understand now?

to be continued

DarkC is the real KMC thread killer.

so now we have a new topic to be discussed... -_-;

see this is where you lose me.
cloud swats away bullets from yazoo while fighting off Loz at close range who has a powered up materia+gauntled that made him superspeed, superreflexes and superpower (or the other way around perhaps, i forgot the names cuz i hated them both). dodging bullets and fighting a metahuman makes me think that he can handle a gou-hadouken and still be fast enough to handle whatever akuma plans on doing next. in fact, not only that but cloud will be doing it better because compared to the bullets, he has less to worry about when it comes to gou-hadouken since they are far and by, much slower.


i think he could. also as tiamat says, the MvsC specials are non-canon. that means no beams or rain of fireballs.

and sephiroth's another story. i think cloud is faster than sephiroth. also, by FFAC if cloud has made that much progress that most of the guys couldn't even touch him (kadaj and sephiroth were the only people who managed to land a hit on him). i'm sure sephiroth has aswell. but lets not digress. we're tlaking about cluod, not seFAGroth.


emphasized at what you said? yes exactly.


you called me sad, narrowminded, biased, and a hypocrite. on top of that, you also said that you were "exasperated" as well. on top of that you said that JustFrame proved it, instead of actually telling me what he said. i looked over his posts and all i say for fanboyfanatic rambling.
everything there is what you said. and you were the one who started it. typical sado moment? if it means showing you where you're wrong, then yes it is.


it was a joke post. i actually found your post funny. and so i decided to have fun. that's why the "laughing" smiley in the beginning. you're talking like i don't even let you speak and repeatedly say you're coping out. looking back, i've conceded, agreed and apologized for things that you pointed out to be wrong. on top of that, minus this post i haven't really shot labels at you either. i'm just poking fun at your temper at times and that's all...and it does seem to get a reaction out of you too.


again, that was a joke.
oh and that's label number 5 you just dished out. i'm not saying "dee dee dee" and ignoring the facts you're raising now am i? that is childish. like i said, i was poking fun at your temper. let it sink in: i said "poking fun".
summing everything up, you've said:
-i'm biased
-i'm narrowminded
-i'm sad
-i'm childish
-i'm a hyporcite
if you ask me, coming down to name calling in a serious post is more childish than coming up with a hulk reference to someone having temper issues in a joke reference. besides, hulk is iconic when it comes to temper issues. hence the reference.

and what does "having stones" have anything to do with this, ya big sexist pig?!

(also a joke )


proof? SFA2 ending seemed to take longer, though i didn't measure the exact time.


agreed. but would gouki know what's coming, is what i'm asking you?


true.


probably. all in all i think it took cloud less than 5 seconds to pull it off. just pointing it out so that its made clear that it wont be easy.


well it was the only time we do see him teleport...which is what ashura warp is.


really? interesting. was it the same split second thing or a different move? if its there in SNK version of Shin Gouki then i assume its semi-canon at the very least.

~Sado

he was phasing right through sephiroth, wasn't he? i think he turns intangible but the swords dont....or something like that. that move was weird. sephiroth and kadaj "die" but neither of them had a drop of blood on them even though they were pwned by six swords. heck, even their clothes weren't shredded


i was going through what seph did but putting gouki there instead.
what you say is debatable. for one you're ignoring that the move was a secret move. secondly, gouki would at most be expecting a hack/slash attack. third, even if he was expecting a special, i doubt a sword breaking into six and him teleporting and phasing through him would be the first choice of what he'd be thinking of.
and lastly, you nor i know what gouki'd be really thinking.


sephiroth did a cocky "hmph", placed his sword across him and changed his grip style and position. that pretty much sums it up that he was "prepared"


...in other words he was prepared.


how about we stop pretending that we know what the character was thinking. you're not professor X and i'm not the Phoenix. and before you start, the akuma saying "oh sh..." was a joke.


i asked you if you are or not. simple as that.
"yes" or "no" quetsion really. if "no" then i'll move on. if "yes" then you and i are going to have another debate.


no the moves besides that. he has only managed to kill a person with a SGS and that was bison.


i know that. but i'm saying that since gouki went so far as to do the SGS in a battle to the death to Gen, it pretty much means that he failed to kill him with anything else. that is the other so-called lethal moves.
catch my drift?


lore is lore. not canon.
if you find proof in the canon, i'd be happy to concede.


proof of which we don't have. guess we're both screwed then
:laugh"

~Sado

The Omnislash V. 5 turns the blades intangible because the attack is pure Spiritual Power.

what he said

Originally posted by Sado22
sephiroth and kadaj "die" but neither of them had a drop of blood on them even though they were pwned by six swords. heck, even their clothes weren't shredded

That's because none of them have blood(or real clothes) in the first place. Kadaj is just a spirit-body, and Sephiroth is just a bunch of J-cells together.

oh...

Hmmm...I'm pretty much done wit this thread, in my absence others have already prooven points similar to my own...

........you mean say things that are either myth, debatable or plain BS, right?

Originally posted by Sado22
........you mean say things that are either myth, debatable or plain BS, right? If you say so... debatin you is like Guile's move list...it never changes, even when it needs to.

that's anyone from SF really.
and screw you for comparing me to an SF character!! that sh-t is low!

Gouki is a better character than Kazuya.

And Iori. Stronger to. 131

Well Gouki is stronger than both.

And Demitri would solo Tekken, SNK, and Streetfighter. 131

you underestimated KOF, tekken and SF.

No, I really don't.

You know who Demitri Maximov is? They couldn't even do a thing to harm him, let alone kill him. He is from Darkstalkers, a world where the weakest of Makai demons can take down armies, Demitri until Jedah was reborn was the strongest one.

you know in KOF there's someone who could defeat such a godlike character such as igniz. it's K', iori and kyo. also orochi was defeated by kyo, iori and chizuru.

in tekken, jin defeated a fire breathing monster such as ogre. ogre also known as god of fighting. and this is normal ogre. then how about true ogre? must be more powerful.

and don't tell me demitri was stronger than orochi even igniz. or maybe you want to say that this is 1 vs 1 against demitri?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
you know in KOF there's someone who could defeat such a godlike character such as igniz. it's K', iori and kyo. also orochi was defeated by kyo, iori and chizuru.

in tekken, jin defeated a fire breathing monster such as ogre. ogre also known as god of fighting. and this is normal ogre. then how about true ogre? must be more powerful.

in SF... don't know what to say.

and don't tell me demitri was stronger than orochi even igniz. or maybe you want to say that this is 1 vs 1 against demitri? Yeah, Demitri is much stronger. Demitri stood up against a God of an entire dimension without dying. Demitri is physically stronger than Donavan Baine, who is class 100 with one hand. Demitri is faster, stronger, more powerful, and can drain their souls pretty easily with a Midnight Bliss. He fights world eating Gods such as Pyron.

did he won?

Yes.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yeah, Demitri is much stronger. Demitri stood up against a God of an entire dimension without dying. Demitri is physically stronger than Donavan Baine, who is class 100 with one hand. Demitri is faster, stronger, more powerful, and can drain their souls pretty easily with a Midnight Bliss. He fights world eating Gods such as Pyron.

Hmm...

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
God is just a title.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Being a God means jack friggin shit,

Jaxx's point was that even though God is nothing more then a title, if Fuuma can't understand that and uses it as a feat or an example of power, Jaxx can use the same twisted logic.

Even though it really wouldn't hurt to just say Demitri beat "stronger gods".

Doesn't sound as impressive.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He fights world eating Gods such as Pyron.

Who weakened himself, according to Pyron Knight.