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This happens on mustafar. who wins?
Sabers
Force
All Out

Revan, all.

when fighting the exile, kreia said that he was more powerful than any she had ever trained, that includes. revan.

it depents on the side of both who wins

Originally posted by Man of Christ
when fighting the exile, kreia said that he was more powerful than any she had ever trained, that includes. revan.

it depents on the side of both who wins

She said she was ONE of the most powerful Jedi she trained, not THE most powerful.

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
She said she was ONE of the most powerful Jedi she trained, not THE most powerful.

uh uh buddy check your script in the dialogue with darth traya before you fight her it says THE

Revan takes this. Both are quite powerful, but Revan has been shown to have done a lot more feats than the Exile. (e.g. beating suped-up Malak, fighting through hordes of droids that could easily take down a normal Jedi, killing like 60 Dark Jedi in the Temple on Rakata Prime, etc.)

Also, Kreia's various praises about the Exile were all trynig to ensnare her into that creepy old woman's plan to get rid of the Force.

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
Revan takes this. Both are quite powerful, but Revan has been shown to have done a lot more feats than the Exile. (e.g. beating suped-up Malak, fighting through hordes of droids that could easily take down a normal Jedi, killing like 60 Dark Jedi in the Temple on Rakata Prime, etc.)

Also, Kreia's various praises about the Exile were all trynig to ensnare her into that creepy old woman's plan to get rid of the Force.

i would say that the exile has done equally impresive feats such as slaughtering all the sith assassins, dark jedi, sith marauder, etc.... then after that having the stamina to kill sion multiple times and then kill traya, then her lightsabers, all by himself. thats pretty impressive. sure malak was in the star forge which boosted his power but sion was at malachor 5 which also boosted him. so they have each done imperssive feats so it comes down to what side theyre on

Originally posted by Man of Christ
i would say that the exile has done equally impresive feats such as slaughtering all the sith assassins, dark jedi, sith marauder, etc.... then after that having the stamina to kill sion multiple times and then kill traya, then her lightsabers, all by himself. thats pretty impressive. sure malak was in the star forge which boosted his power but sion was at malachor 5 which also boosted him. so they have each done imperssive feats so it comes down to what side theyre on

This is true, though the Sith Assassins, to be honest, weren't that hard to deal with.

Also, does it say anywhere that being on Malachor V boosted Sion?

Also, totally unrelated, how does one do a spoiler tag? I can't figure it out.

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
This is true, though the Sith Assassins, to be honest, weren't that hard to deal with.

Also, does it say anywhere that being on Malachor V boosted Sion?

Also, totally unrelated, how does one do a spoiler tag? I can't figure it out.

when you fight sion he states that the darkness that fills malachor both gives him strength and hold his flesh together

But I guess the question is...which gives more power:

A huge Rakatan factory forged by the power of the Dark Side
Or...
A planet that for some reason is really Dark while the only thing that ever happened there was a big Mandalorian vs. Republic fight

I never understood what the big "wound in the Force" thing about Malachor was all about. I mean, there have been a lot bigger battles with a lot more people killed in them, so why Malachor?

Also, anyone know about the spoiler tags? Please?

Too close to call.


Which Revan is it?

super godly star forge uberness revan (revan at his peak)

Originally posted by Man of Christ
uh uh buddy check your script in the dialogue with darth traya before you fight her it says THE

Then Show me.
Because I don't see it.

First off: The Exile is a SHE get it right.

Second off: Kreia did NOT train Revan. She enccountered him and even says that looking at revan was like "staring into the heart of the force"

Third: Revan can manipulate multiple sides of the force from dark to light but i doubt he would dwelve into the dark side in this battle not that he would need to.

Fourth: Revan's force knowledge surpasses the exile due to the exiles limited use through her force bonds. Revan however has accessed many sith holocrons and was the single most powerful Sith during the Mandolorian wars.

P.S. the only reason she trumped scion was not through pure skill but an overwhelming strength of will. So basically she is a good politician. Don't get me wrong i have nothing against the exile and im not a sith fanboy but the exile just cant stand toe to toe with Revan plain and simple

Seeing as how there is no evidence that the Exile is even in Revan's league and the only argument you guys have for the Exile is "well Kreia said", it's fairly obvious Revan trumps her in every category. He has the combined knowledge of Malachor V and Korriban, not to mention superior force mastery. It's a no brainer.

No, your wrong, Kreia did train Revan:

"But that is my belief as I knew Revan from long ago as a master knows their apprentice." - Kreia

"At one time Revan was my Padawan in times past long ago" - Kreia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44GeQp6ZFtc

1:46 - look at it.




While I'm not going to argue that Revans force knowledge doesn't surpass the Exile (it most definitely does, he's the most knowledgeable character on both sides of the force in the KOTOR era) What you are wrong about is the Exile she has a near limitless potential, the more force users she's around and the more bonds she can form and leech off their power, the more power in turn she receives:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDbr63GwIVU

As for Revan being the single most powerful Sith during the Mando Wars...its not hard when the only other Sith in the known galaxy are Kun remnants and Malak...

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Seeing as how there is no evidence that the Exile is even in Revan's league

that she was the greatest stdent that kreia had ever trained? aye. and kreia is a valid third party narration.
You forget, that the exile's whole story is pretty much centered around malachor 5. I dont know exactly what you mean by "has the combined knowledge" but The Exile has been to both malochor V and Korriban, and has whiped out the triumvirate that supposedly has the knowledge of malachor 5.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
uh uh buddy check your script in the dialogue with darth traya before you fight her it says THE She said greatest student not the most powerful student. And greatest does not equal to strongest.

u sure?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
u sure? Yes.

Ill explain with a metaphor, arnold schwarzenegger was stated by several magazines to be the greatest bodybuilder to ever exist, but does that mean he is the biggest out there when there are other bodybuilders like ronnie coleman or jay cutler?


Think about it.

.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3466/yarlyte0.jpg

Originally posted by IAMBATMAN
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3466/yarlyte0.jpg http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a256/LordSaboteur/KMC%20Forum%20Pics/loldead.jpg

Originally posted by IAMBATMAN
She said greatest student not the most powerful student. And greatest does not equal to strongest.
This is a very important point to remember. Traya's idea of greatest is not someone strong in the force, she hates the force, wants it to be killed. She praises the exile for doing what the jedi could not, living without the force.
When asked what Revan was like as a student, Traya says, "Revan was power". Traya remarks that the exile is different, saying that looking at exile is "like staring at the death of the Force".
You simply cannot use that quote about Exile being greatest to prove that s/he is more powerful than Revan.

Revan's victory over the terentateks leads me to believe that he would win a saber fight, since we don't know whether exile specialized in force combat or saber combat (or both). In a force battle I would be inclined to say Revan. Clearly I think Revan would win in an all out fight.

Originally posted by IAMBATMAN
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3466/yarlyte0.jpg

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

You simply cannot use that quote about Exile being greatest to prove that s/he is more powerful than Revan.

Read carefully, people were rambling exile > revan because kreia said exile is the greatest student, i was merely explaining to them that greatest is does NOT mean the strongest. I never used that quote to put exile > revan.

Sorry, but your thinking of the wrong Revan. Knightfall said that its the Starforge Revan, so The Exile claerly has the lead in force knowledge since she had a far greater time period of actual practise.

And since the Exile has had more actual duels then Its a safe bet that shes no slacker in a fight.

I still maintain that its too close to call.

Didn't Revan's memory return at one point?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Sorry, but your thinking of the wrong Revan. Knightfall said that its the Starforge Revan, so The Exile claerly has the lead in force knowledge since she had a far greater time period of actual practise.

And since the Exile has had more actual duels then Its a safe bet that shes no slacker in a fight.

I still maintain that its too close to call.

Nobody cares, since you can't seem to make one intelligent post.

The Exile is nowhere near Revan in force mastery, nor has she had greater time to actually practice it. If you're going to sound like an idiot, at least use facts.

post kotor revan has his memory and would rock the exile.

pre kotor revan would still beat the exile but it wouldn't be easy

Originally posted by IAMBATMAN
Read carefully, people were rambling exile > revan because kreia said exile is the greatest student, i was merely explaining to them that greatest is does NOT mean the strongest. I never used that quote to put exile > revan.
I was agreeing with you. When I said 'you' I was referring to people in general.

The Exile had about 20 of practice That She Actually Remembers previous to her losing connection to the force. She then had a couple of months training in the game as well as having to singlehandedly train about 4 apprentices. The Exile most definately had more time to prctice the force in.
I would also like to bring up the fact of her Amazing learning rate, in that she learnt at least the basics of 1-3 Forms simply by duelling with the Jedi Masters/ recieving 2 minutes practice with them.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that The Exile has just about killed more Sith than any other person, so I find it highly unlikely that Revans just going to be able to 'own' her with ease, if at all.




Hey Sexy, why don't you take your stupid MC Hammer dance and F*ck off back to the 80's.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The Exile had about 20 of practice That She Actually Remembers previous to her losing connection to the force. She then had a couple of months training in the game as well as having to singlehandedly train about 4 apprentices. The Exile most definately had more time to prctice the force in.
I would also like to bring up the fact of her Amazing learning rate, in that she learnt at least the basics of 1-3 Forms simply by duelling with the Jedi Masters/ recieving 2 minutes practice with them.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that The Exile has just about killed more Sith than any other person, so I find it highly unlikely that Revans just going to be able to 'own' her with ease, if at all.




Hey Sexy, why don't you take your stupid MC Hammer dance and F*ck off back to the 80's.

And the self pwnage continues..

Wow, THAT hurt.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The Exile had about 20 of practice That She Actually Remembers previous to her losing connection to the force. She then had a couple of months training in the game as well as having to singlehandedly train about 4 apprentices. The Exile most definately had more time to prctice the force in.
I would also like to bring up the fact of her Amazing learning rate, in that she learnt at least the basics of 1-3 Forms simply by duelling with the Jedi Masters/ recieving 2 minutes practice with them.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that The Exile has just about killed more Sith than any other person, so I find it highly unlikely that Revans just going to be able to 'own' her with ease, if at all.




Hey Sexy, why don't you take your stupid MC Hammer dance and F*ck off back to the 80's.

The Exile didn't learn those forms after 2 minutes of fighting. The act of her learning that was an ingame experience and we don't know how much time passes in the game in 2 minutes our time. In reality it could have been a couple hours, still a good feat but also remember she was a jedi during the Mando wars and it's kind of like riding a bike after a couple hours of training how the forms work could come back to her mind.

I don't think she killed more sith than anyone Revan also killed quite a lot sith during Kotor but again all of that is in game

Pre Kotor Revan knows force techniques that Darth Bane was afraid to try. and Revan regained all of his memory after the events of Kotor so he would still knows those techniques, also some of those could have been "techniques in the force to which there is no defense"-Traya

The Exile was good don't get me wrong but Revan is just better in every aspect. and no I don't think it would be pwnage but Revan definantly does come out of this duel the victor.

Just to clarify those techniques Bane was apparently afraid to try were Sith rituals (nothing to do with combat related techniques of which Bane never showed fear of utilizing).

You can't assume Revan knew "techniques to which there was no defense". The quote was referencing Nihilus' immense strength in the dark side, and the specific force power he mastered. We know nothing about Revan's knowledge in combat related force powers.

Revan is inferior to Nihilus in terms of power, and was said to be stronger in his amnesiac state (Kotor 1) than he was as a Sith Lord before Kotor 1.

Beyond that the Exile that fought in the Mando wars with Revan is weaker than the Exile in kotor 2, who is a wound in the force and got stronger with the force bonds she formed and the people she killed.

At this point IMO - given what each character has accomplished - this fight is a toss up.

where does it say rituals because as i recall it was simply stated as force techniques

and traya wasn't referring to just Nihilus's force drain either she said There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense.

techniques as in more than one.

I know that Kotor2 exile is more powerful than she was in the mando wars but it doesn't matter because Revan post kotor is still her superior.

Originally posted by Allankles
Just to clarify those techniques Bane was apparently afraid to try were Sith rituals (nothing to do with combat related techniques of which Bane never showed fear of utilizing).

You can't assume Revan knew "techniques to which there was no defense". The quote was referencing Nihilus' immense strength in the dark side, and the specific force power he mastered. We know nothing about Revan's knowledge in combat related force powers.

Revan is inferior to Nihilus in terms of power, and was said to be stronger in his amnesiac state (Kotor 1) than he was as a Sith Lord before Kotor 1.

Beyond that the Exile that fought in the Mando wars with Revan is weaker than the Exile in kotor 2, who is a wound in the force and got stronger with the force bonds she formed and the people she killed.

At this point IMO - given what each character has accomplished - this fight is a toss up.

Except it's not a toss up. There is NO evidence of the Exile being in Revan's league in terms of force mastery. While I agree Revan is inferior to Nihilus in terms of raw power, he still trumps in him in the force ability category. Nihilus is an anomaly because he's a wound in the force, so his power is very hard to gauge. The exile is an average jedi who happened to have the ability to create force bonds (learned from Revan). This has been argued to death already.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except it's not a toss up. There is NO evidence of the Exile being in Revan's league in terms of force mastery. While I agree Revan is inferior to Nihilus in terms of raw power, he still trumps in him in the force ability category. Nihilus is an anomaly because he's a wound in the force, so his power is very hard to gauge. The exile is an average jedi who happened to have the ability to create force bonds (learned from Revan). This has been argued to death already.

Revan benefits form being over inflated.

Nothing in POD references Revan's knowledge on combat effective force techniques, just a couple of sith rituals one of which Bane tricks Kaan into using.

Kotor 1 Revan is the most powerful Revan to date and he wasn't anymore impressive than the Exile in Kotor 2.

Furthermore Revan's mastery of the dark side of the force pales in comparison to Nihilus', so whatever knowledge you choose to assume he had, it doesn't change the fact that Nihilus' power and feats speak louder than any suppositions.

Post Kotor 1 Revan regains his knowledge, but where is the proof that he's more powerful than what we witness in Kotor 1? He was already doing things by reflex and Malak comments he'd grown more powerful than his knowledgeable past self, no less.

Anyway, it's my opinion, you want to argue the error of my ideas? I've given a logical explanation as to how I've come to these conclusions.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
where does it say rituals because as i recall it was simply stated as force techniques

and traya wasn't referring to just Nihilus's force drain either she said There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense.

techniques as in more than one.

I know that Kotor2 exile is more powerful than she was in the mando wars but it doesn't matter because Revan post kotor is still her superior.

But the quote was in direct relation to what Nihilus did to her, it has no relation to Revan unless you want to make baseless assumptions (the common practice of Revan fans).

"Techniques" mean what exactly? Bane was a neophyte, nothing he said about Revan's holocron carries any weight. Add the fact that all we know about the holocrons is a few references about Sith rituals and you've got no supportive let alone definitive evidence.

Furthermore if we're talking Kotor 2 Exile strictly, she' got just as much chance of beating Revan as Revan has in beating her. The Exile has faced all manner of powerful force users, least of which a virtual immortal. Speaking objectively as I can, there's no reason why she couldn't be able to defeat Revan (he's no Yoda, Mace, Dooku, Anakin)

Revan also always had help from party members, who probably killed a far share of Sith themselves.
The Exile on the other hand took out a full Sith academy singlehanded as well as two powerful Dark Lords.



Revan doesn't gain all her memories back and bastila even makes a point of saying that this would be almost impossible to happen. All Revan definately remembered was the Real sith.
And this is pointless as this is Revan on the Star Forge that we're talking about, not Revan after the Star Forge.



Except the Exile can learn techniques that Revan cannot, like Force Crush, Kill Zone and Force Enlightenment. Also The Exile has demonstrated more actual mastery ingame, like being able to read minds etc.



The Exile was forming Force bonds before the mando wars even began, and likely before she knew Revan.
The Exile was only average Before the war. afterward she even says that shes more powerful, and she would know better than you.



Theres no evidence for that assumption. None at all.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Except the Exile can learn techniques that Revan cannot, like Force Crush, Kill Zone and Force Enlightenment. Also The Exile has demonstrated more actual mastery ingame, like being able to read minds etc.

Bullshit,show me one canon event where the Exile used those powers.

Revan>>>>Exile in anything relating to force mastery.

With Revan it's all about making assumptions nothing (as far definitive evidence is concerned) says that this fight isn't anything but a 50/50 affair.

Hell if we go by feats (who they faced and what they encountered) the Exile is slightly more impressive. Having done a lot in Kotor 2 including facing three powerful Sith two of whom she faced in quick succession.

Not that it affects the outcome of this fight, but Exodus is right about the Exile demonstrating more canon force abilities than Revan.

Breath control in a toxic environment, beast trick on Onderon, battle precognition (not definitive because it's with the hand maiden). Force sight via Visas. Mind reading with Kreia. Not to mention seven force forms and lightsaber techniques.

It's also interesting to note that two of these lightsaber techniques are canon (Makashi and Shi Choo) and one force form (force channel) because they are part of the narrative and are the default techniques and force forms.

Also it is part of narrative that Exile's force bonding ability makes her powerful and capable of learning force techniques and lightsaber forms quickly as Kreia notes and the Jedi Masters are frightened by. Why should the Exile be penalized for an oversight from Bioware with Kotor 1? (No force forms or lightsaber techniques in their narrative).

Revan is often times hyped up beyond the evidence that is available, until new info is made concerning him, I'm justified in thinking this fight is 50/50.

Originally posted by Allankles
With Revan it's all about making assumptions nothing (as far definitive evidence is concerned) says that this fight isn't anything but a 50/50 affair.
There's NOTHING that proves the Exile is in Revan's league.


Except the circumstances were 90% gameplay mechanics. By feats, Revan almost destroyed the Republic, and then killed a Star Force powered Malak with his own abilities.




Except what you just mentioned was all either gameplay mechanics or basic force techniques. The exile has shown nothing to put her anywhere near Revan in the force department.


No, her learning the techniques are a result of gameplay mechanics.


Revan was a master of force bonding. Again, your arguments are pitiful when it comes to the exile seeing as how most of what you mentioned are gameplay mechanics. Now your excuse is Bioware's inabilities to cater to your fanboyism? You're making me laugh.



No, you're really not and you haven't proven it with any kind of argument.

Originally posted by Allankles

It should also be noted that this was happening in Malacchor 5 where the dark side was extremely strong and Revan and his dark Jedi used the dark side force energy of the planet to help in breaking Jedi, it has nothing to do with Revan's abilities in combat (which is the subject of this thread).

I love how you make random, unfounded, bullshit assumptions.

double post

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
There's NOTHING that proves the Exile is in Revan's league.


Except the circumstances were 90% gameplay mechanics. By feats, Revan almost destroyed the Republic, and then killed a Star Force powered Malak with his own abilities.

The Exile beat a Malachor 5 empowered Sion (which confounded the immortal) and a Malachor empowered Traya. We can all play that game.



Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except what you just mentioned was all either gameplay mechanics or basic force techniques. The exile has shown nothing to put her anywhere near Revan in the force department.

Ok. I'm trying to get you to mention where these force abilities have manifested themselves as combat effective techniques and then continue to wait for you to realize that Nihilus (even while weakened) was still the Exile superior in the force and Traya also had impressive combat effective force abilities.

We can assume Revan's force abilities will make a difference but there's nothing to suggest that they'd make him superior to the Exile in a fight, because the Exile has faced an opponent that was definitely her superior in the force (Nihilus) and prevailed.

We don't know if Revan is the Exile superior in the force because they are on the same level in terms of feats and combat related evidence. 50/50 scenario.


Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, her learning the techniques are a result of gameplay mechanics.

Of course they formed part of the gameplay, but they were still part of the narrative which makes them canon. The feat abilities and force powers are purely gameplay.

The force bonding and the speed of learning the techniques were a big part of the narrative and the reason why the Exile was very powerful in Kotor 2.


Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Revan was a master of force bonding. Again, your arguments are pitiful when it comes to the exile seeing as how most of what you mentioned are gameplay mechanics. Now your excuse is Bioware's inabilities to cater to your fanboyism?

When did this development occur? Since when was Revan a master of force bonding and how come this apparent mastery has never surfaced in any narrative? And gameplay mechanics are gameplay mechanics, I've clearly pointed out to you that the abilities I've mentioned were part of the narrative, the mechanics are irrelevant.

What excuses? Did my point fly right over your head? Bioware didn't think to consider putting in lightsaber forms or force forms in their narrative. And forget the gameplay please, we know what the gameplay is, I'm talking about narrative/story.


Originally posted by Darth Sexy


You're irrational. Revan = zero combat related force feats.

Sexy, do you actually think that you're making logical arguments, or have you realised that you aren't but are just too stubborn to stop?

Originally posted by HomoSuperior
Sexy, do you actually think that you're making logical arguments, or have you realised that you aren't but are just too stubborn to stop?

You would have valid points if you had any comprehension of logical arguments. Seeing as how you've been banned more than 40 times and have still yet to win a debate, I find your post hilarious.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Exile beat a Malachor 5 empowered Sion (which confounded the immortal) and a Malachor empowered Traya. We can all play that game.
1. She talked Sion to death. The circumstances of the fight are unknown.

2. Nothing suggests Traya was going all out against her star pupil.





Except there were at least 3 characters to fight Nihilus so you have NO knowledge of who killed him.


No, the Exile faced Nihilus with 2 other party members and her being a wound in the force was the direct determinant of the fight. Her being a wound in the force will not have any effect on Revan, rendering your comparisons moot.


They are NOT on the same level. Revan has the knowledge of plundered Korriban tombs, and underground cities on Malachor V. He may very well have the most broad dark side knowledge next to Palpatine.


Except speed is relative in a game when it's all gameplay. For all you know, there could have been a year or two in between everything. You're using speculation to form your argument and it's failing.





Except it did surface. Kreia said he had amazing force bonding techniques, which also helped him on Malachor V.


Her learning any forms is part of gameplay mechanics. There is not a single IOTA of canon that states which form the Exile knew.






You're an exile fanboy. Revan>Exile.

Lol wut?

One can plainly assume that with such a complete force mastery and knowledge that Revan has been described as having, comes the ability to direct the force in an offensive manner, given all we know of the man and his ridiculously powerful connection to the force (I'd put it on Yoda/Kar Vastor/Starkiller the Secret Apprentice level, since that seems to be the definitive tier below "Luke Skywalker" Assuming that he can't is pure idiocy.

Given that simple force pushes from individuals on that scale are enough to kill, and given that Revan was a seasoned combat veteran who fought in two back to back wars, faced the best the Mandalorians had to offer and won (He kills the Mandalore) and develop specific ways for even non-force sensitives to fight and kill Jedi, this all coupled with the facts that he beat Malak (Pre mind wipe) in a duel for Sith supremacy and Malak in turn murked the best the Jedi at the time had to offer in a duel (the famed leader of the Jedi Guardians: Kavar) means his skill with a blade is pretty fierce to say the least, also dueling is 50% force power/mastery as Path of Destruction points out and Revan has that in abundance. All this makes Revan a most formidable killing machine.

Moreover, as its been stated previously Revan has plundered the planet wide underground cities of Malachor learning and taking Sith artifacts and knowledge at his leisure. He also ransacked Korriban when it was still worth a shit. What this means is he has a pretty deep understanding of the Dark Side and its numerous abilities which the few that we've seen present themselves have been insanely dangerous: The Force Drain, The Force Storm, Sions power , The Sith's camouflage. Once again to assume he WOULDN'T know these things are foolish. And canon actually says he knows the force storm.

Revan has displayed a greater force mastery then that of Darth Caedus whom was stated to be stronger then Vader, when Caedus attempts to force information out of Fetts daughters mind he fails and ends up giving her an aneurysm. Revan mimics this with the Rataka on a mass scale and literally forces and entire language system into their (their being the entire race) minds, that type of force mastery and power rival feats Luke Skywalker has pulled off.

Revan is simply too strong in the force for a relative unknown like The Exile, even when untrained the kind of power that Revan represents is extremely dangerous, look at Kar Vastor for example, whom was stated to be on Yoda and Anakins level in terms of raw force power, he beat the ever loving shit out of Mace Windu whom was a Jedi for 40+ years, master of its deadliest form of combat: Vaapad, and beat the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith Palpatine in a duel.

Its on you to prove that the Exile can even stand against Revan given the apparent vast difference in their power.

(Note I'm not saying the Exile is weak or anything I'm just saying she's no Revan, just as Caedus is stronger then Vader and was the second strongest Jedi in the NJO, he's still no Luke.)

Sion, Atris, and Kreia are her only true tests of skill and each of those mentioned would lose to Revan.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Lol wut?

One can plainly assume that with such a complete force mastery and knowledge that Revan has been described as having, comes the ability to direct the force in an offensive manner, given all we know of the man and his ridiculously powerful connection to the force (I'd put it on Yoda/Kar Vastor/Starkiller the Secret Apprentice level, since that seems to be the definitive tier below "Luke Skywalker" Assuming that he can't is pure idiocy.

And how is this definitive evidence? I haven't doubted Revan's force abilities (reread my posts) merely questioned where you derive these ideas about for his apparent "force level" let alone the level of his combat abilities.

Stating that he's on Kar Vastor/Yoda/Starkiller level is pure bs, seeing as those characters have definitive combat feats that give us a good platform with which to estimate their combat level. Revan has no such evidence, hell everything about his knowledge hasn't manifested into anything tangible.

His force abilities can be reduced to a few sentences form a couple of characters. The only thing that speaks for Revan's abilities in a fight are the results of his biggest fight (Malak) and that doesn't put him above the Exile (who was equally an experienced war veteran etc etc).

Hell, even suggesting that Revan could beat someone like Dooku (with his impressive combat displays) is baseless speculation.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx



Given that simple force pushes from individuals on that scale are enough to kill, and given that Revan was a seasoned combat veteran who fought in two back to back wars, faced the best the Mandalorians
had to offer and won (He kills the Mandalore) and develop specific ways for even non-force sensitives to fight and kill Jedi,

You do realize that Mandalore acknowledged the Exile as being an equal of Revan? Beyond that we know - from Kreia's words - that the Exile was feared by the Mandalorians during the Mando war. As far as Revan's elite soldiers are concerned, non of what they were taught (judging from what Atton said about them) involved combat prowess. So it doesn't affect a straight fight between Revan and the Exile. You're putting in a lot of irrelevant info.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

this all coupled with the facts that he beat Malak (Pre mind wipe) in a duel for Sith supremacy and Malak in turn murked the best the Jedi at the time had to offer in a duel (the famed leader of the Jedi Guardians: Kavar) means his skill with a blade is pretty fierce to say the least, also dueling is 50% force power/mastery as Path of Destruction points out and Revan has that in abundance. All this makes Revan a most formidable killing machine.

That just proves that Malak> Kavar. But we also know that The Exile > Kavar and naturally Revan > Kavar. I hope you're not making some weak attempt at ABC logic? It doesn't prove anything about Revan's skill with a blade in relation to the Exile. And please note I haven't made any argument about the Exile's skills.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Moreover, as its been stated previously Revan has plundered the planet wide underground cities of Malachor learning and taking Sith artifacts and knowledge at his leisure. He also ransacked Korriban when it was still worth a shit. What this means is he has a pretty deep understanding of the Dark Side and its numerous abilities which the few that we've seen present themselves have been insanely dangerous: The Force Drain, The Force Storm, Sions power , The Sith's camouflage. Once again to assume he WOULDN'T know these things are foolish. And canon actually says he knows the force storm.

We no doubt know that Revan was powerful. However the question is what does Revan have that would overwhelm the Exile to a degree that The Exile becomes clearly the inferior combatant?

How has this knowledge manifested itself in any narrative? And to what degree did this knowledge augment his combat abilities t? Plenty of characters have plundered great knowledge (remember Jerec who apparently became omniscient for a short while?). The difference between Kun/Caedus and Revan is that we know the degree of power these characters unlocked, we don't know Revan's or whether this power would clearly make him the Exile's superior.

The degree of power becomes significant because as i said before, both have the same level of combat feats/accomplishments and are in the same era. You almost wish there was a comic with a Kun VS Ulic type of encounter for which to judge them on.

Where is this evidence that this knowledge made Revan a combat demi-god (or something close)? Because all I see (Kotor 1 and Kotor 2) suggest that these two characters are equals albeit with very different backgrounds and reasons for their power.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Revan has displayed a greater force mastery then that of Darth Caedus whom was stated to be stronger then Vader, when Caedus attempts to force information out of Fetts daughters mind he fails and ends up giving her an aneurysm. Revan mimics this with the Rataka on a mass scale and literally forces and entire language system into their (their being the entire race) minds, that type of force mastery and power rival feats Luke Skywalker has pulled off.

I know you're trying to relate force abilities with combat effective force abilities but this doesn't prove anything. I don't want the discussion to get derailed with a pointless argument about what Caedus did to Fett's daughter vs Revan's dealings with the Rakata. Suffice to say they were two different scenarios with different characters and different outcomes.

Anyway I wouldn't put much stock in the whole Caedus> Vader line as I don't see a fully capable Vader losing to Jaina (I know the circumstances). And besides it was just a tagline, it could be significant or it could be pure marketing.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Revan is simply too strong in the force for a relative unknown like The Exile, even when untrained the kind of power that Revan represents is extremely dangerous, look at Kar Vastor for example, whom was stated to be on Yoda and Anakins level in terms of raw force power, he beat the ever loving shit out of Mace Windu whom was a Jedi for 40+ years, master of its deadliest form of combat: Vaapad, and beat the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith Palpatine in a duel.

That's the thing, for me Revan is an unknown himself. Outside of his holcron in POD (which in truth doesn't give us anything about his force level) we've got nothing on Revan's actual force level. He's above Malak who could throttle a couple of nameless Jedi and could control the star forge which requires and unknown amount of force power to control. Given that Revan and Malak were the only notable Sith to try to control the SF, we can't even use that.

As far as Vastor I have the book Shatterpoint and Vastor was very powerful, tossing Windu around with TK which is very difficult to do, but I see nothing to put Revan on Vastor's level.


Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Its on you to prove that the Exile can even stand against Revan given the apparent vast difference in their power.

(Note I'm not saying the Exile is weak or anything I'm just saying she's no Revan, just as Caedus is stronger then Vader and was the second strongest Jedi in the NJO, he's still no Luke.)

Sion, Atris, and Kreia are her only true tests of skill and each of those mentioned would lose to Revan.

Again, I see no vast differences in their power, that would involve assumptions on my part, assumptions with no real evidence to support them. One was a naturally gifted force user who was a prodigy in his era. The other due to her experiences and her specific gifts gained the ability to expand her force potential. To me they seem like equals, and I would easily and gladly retract this statement if there was more info proving otherwise.

Once again: Lol wut?

- Kreia saying it was as if looking into the heart of the force

- Jolee literally seeing the force swirl around him

- He being called a prodigy by Vandar at the end of KOTOR, and a prodigy as a knight before the mind wipe

- Having the most complete knowledge of the Dark Side of the force that is second only too Palpatine that we know of

- Had the most advanced, highly developed form of Battle Precognition that allowed him to see the outcome of battles months into the future. (Anther thing that puts him above Darth Cadick whose only precognition failed him and lured him into the clutches of Lumiya)

- Having his name be synonymous with power

- Bastila was literally feeling overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of his power

- His force mastery (that you conveniently ignored) that surpasses Caedus whom himself surpassed Vader in terms of force power, who is you know 80% of Darth f*cking Sidious

- Him ripping through the Star Forges defense that were called a match for any Jedi, then beating Bastilla multiple times while she was being constantly revived and amped up by the Star Forge, THEN proceeding to beat Malak at least 2 times in a row while he was empowered by the Star Forge and revived by the life force of dead Jedi.

- Surviving and not being broken by the Dark Side power of Malachor (a PLANET full of raw Dark Side energy, which Kreia was broken by)

- His force bonding ability that he used en mass on his followers according to Kreia

- During his start as Dark Lord the chronicles say his dark power was "tremendous" and only continued to grow, then in KOTOR he's stated as being stronger then he EVER was as the Dark Lord.

- Revan using force storms to slaughter Rataka scouting parties on Lehon

- He slaughters the Sith Academy by himself (showed in KOTOR1, confirmed by Kreia in KOTOR 2)

- His holocron alone was enough in itself to turn Bane from a neophyte to a very dangerous, very powerful Dark Lord

- Sion, the mans whos pull on the force is so strong it holds his dead body together through sheer hate, admits to being his inferiority to Revan, he even goes as far as to give him the honorific "Lord" when he speaks of him, something he DOESN'T do for his current master or any of his peers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVQJwIrswMs&feature=related 2:26

Really now, this is a bit silly, Revan is a Gary Stu, you complaining won't change that fact and as a Gary Stu he extremely powerful with few flaws, to NOT put him in the Yoda/Vastor/Starkiller/ tier is just plain foolish. The mind rape of the Raataka puts him above Mr. Solo whom failed to pull off a similar feat against ONE person, that in itself is enough to place him in the league of the before-mentioned.

As I've stated its on you to PROVE that the Exile is even in his league considering she has nothing in the way of quotes from strong reliable characters that place her power on Revans scale, and all of her solo major victories (Atris, Sion, and Traya) are all foes that are definitively weaker then Revan, she's never faced someone of Revans caliber, what makes you think she has a prayer of a chance in a fight with him?

I can understand not liking the character, but shit, give credit where credit is due, stop being a dense hater, its really lame.

NOTE: I didn't read your second part when I posted this

They are very much the same in my eyes: using the force to manipulate the mind and force something IN or OUT, they were both met with opposition: Revan was being attacked by the Raataka and had to force the info in so they could understand him and Fetts daughter was naturally being defiant to the torture Solo was unleashing. The difference is Revans force mastery allowed him to succeed on a mass scale where Solo failed with a single person. The only way you could twist this would be something similar to what Kar Vastor does and makes the language appear in their minds but that doesn't account for Revan understand their language/them still understanding Revan when he comes back post mind wipe.



Its in the book, so its canon, however shitty it is, and yes there were ALOT of extenuating circumstances that allowed Jaina to win, part of them being Jacen is a complete f*cking loon and was injured before both the duels.


I know you SEE them as equals but your going to have to offer up some evidence that they actually ARE equals in anyway.

Uh, you do know the current Mandalore (Canderous) regards Revan as the single greatest warrior ever...

Last post:

I think the line in the Chronicles isn't stressed enough his dark power at the very beginning of his Sith tenure was called "Tremendous" defined as:

1: being such as may excite trembling or arouse dread, awe, or terror
2 a: notable by reason of extreme size, power, greatness, or excellence

Following this line it was stated that his power only countiued to grow, what surpasses the adjective tremendous? It seems that stronger words like colossal, monsterous and such are only synoyms. So his as the dicitnary defines it awe inspiring, trembling enducing power seems to only rise, then in KOTOR after having his mind wiped of the terrible power he once held, were told that he is simply STRONGER then what-ever seems to surpass tremendous.

After KOTOR1 in part two of the series where given a revelation that Revan regained all his previous memories, and along with his old sense of identity comes the return of the knowledge and dark powers, cultures he studied, fighting techniques he learned, force powers he held before his mind wipe that made him "tremendous" in the first place. So that doubled with his power in KOTOR, makes for one scarily powerful force user at its end result, one that I wouldn't hesitate for a second to put on Yoda and Vastors level.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx



Its in the book, so its canon, however shitty it is, and yes there were ALOT of extenuating circumstances that allowed Jaina to win, part of them being Jacen is a complete f*cking loon and was injured before both the duels.
Vader would defeat jaina anyways so it wouldn't matter. I hate to admit though that yes, caedus > vader though by not a large margin seeing that caedus is still inferior to sidious.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

I know you SEE them as equals but your going to have to offer up some evidence that they actually ARE equals in anyway. Equals? Vader and caedus or exile and revan?

Neither of these relate to power. Kreia's comment is just wierd and doesn't really mean much anyway and Jolee's comment was clearly about Destiny, not power, as he then goes on to talk about destiny and that odd story, and in fact says that Revan has a great destiny. Not power.



Revan was called 'the Prodigal Knight' at the end of KOTOR, which means that she perfectly represented the Jedi order of the time.



All of which were lost after the mind wipe untill after the end of KOTOR 1. Knightfall clearly said that this was Revan at the end of the game, so she would not have regained this knowledge.



This was a theory put forward by the Handmaiden. However, as the handmainden wasn't actually a canonal member of the party (you only got her if you were male), this can be discounted.



??????



First, thats the wrong Revan and second, What???? Where has that been stated?



- Her ripping through countless Sith which had almost wiped out the Jedi, then beating Sion multiple times when he was constantly being revived and amped by the power of malachor V, THEN beating Kreia twice as well when she was impowered by malachor and beating 3 floating lightsabers each with a mind of its own .

Equalled.



Both of which the Exile has Equalled, yet actually surpassed Revan with the Force-bonding.



The Exiles power could also be called 'tremendous', judging from her victories and her shear stamina, and the Exile's power continues to grow as well.



Traya used Force drain to kill dozens of Sith, yet was still raped by the Exile. And the Current Revan doesn't now how to do Force Storm.



- She slauhtered a much bigger Sith academy by herself, and What? Revan had two party members to help.



NOT THIS REVAN. And someone with high force mastery can still get beaten by someone with high power Exile>Traya&Atris.

Sorry, but everything shows them to be equals at this point.

pwnt.

"Heart of the Force" is smply hyperbole.... Using it as any evidence of power is ludicrous.

There is no "heart of the Force" for one... The closest thing be Jacen in the last NJO book. Does Revan equal him?



As Advent and any objective party (ie. not you) has pointed out several times:
A) you can't quantify how powerful the SF made Malak.
B) You can't quantify how Revan actually won the fight.

So, it's useless.



Thank you for showing why quotes are basically worthless when unsupported by feats.

It doesn't matter if the quote is unsupported by feats canon is canon whether you like it or not.

Well I was thinking of destroying that point but I realized I made an error.
"surpasses even that of his grandfather""

For some reason (possibly drug-related) I thought it wa stalking about Luke. But it obviously meant the crippled half-droid Vader.

No worries then. The quote is fine.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
"Heart of the Force" is smply hyperbole.... Using it as any evidence of power is ludicrous.
It's also a measure of significant power coming from the master who trained Revan.


In raw force powers? No. In broad techniques and dark side mastery? Yes

It has its merits considering there was a half a page of other facts and quotes, that prove Revans all around general awesomeness. So ah go away failure...





I'd like to give anther: Who the f*ck are you?

*SWISHHHHH!!!* Hey listen everyone thats the sound THE POINT flying right over this handitard's head. If you weren't an utter moronic piss stain, you'd realize that I wasn't even talking about him beating Malak in that instance, I was talking about and proving that he regained his former memories from his past life.

Reading Comprehension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This guy.




LULZ FEAT WARS!!!

I haven't seen this much fail in a long time...

And everyone Revan solo'd was weaker than the Exile. And Revan could sneak by most of the star forge defenses anyway, so yeah.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
And everyone Revan solo'd was weaker than the Exile. And Revan could sneak by most of the star forge defenses anyway, so yeah.

That argument if for anther day and you' probably lose that one too. Revan HAVES too fight the Star Forges Jedi killing droids, he HAVES to fight Bastila alone, He HAVES to fight Malak alone, all this within minutes of each other. Moreover who gives a shit, AGAIN Revan has laundry list of quotes and evidence to back him up where as The Exile has gameplay mechanics and headache inducing ramblings of fangirls.

So yeah. Next.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight



Thank you for showing why quotes are basically worthless when unsupported by feats. Don't be an idiot. I guess by your logic ill need feats for ROTS sidious alone to be stated to be the most powerful sith lord ever.

I've read everything that's been posted on this thread and I've seen these arguments all before, and it comes down to the same thing for Revan in the context of this battle- insubstantial, irrelevant.

You mention any quote about Revan's force abilities, and I've known it before hand. Of course I've taken them into consideration but using quotes like "he's the heart of the force", don't mean anything.

Wasn't the Exile in turn described as the "death of the force"? That seems to be like ying & yang, two equal but opposing forces. Not nearly enough info on Revan to prove that he's a better combatant than the Exile - given the simple fact that their combat feats are clearly at the same level.

And stating his power was "tremendous", like that doesn't describe just about every celebrated dark jedi/sith? Of course I wouldn't note it, it's an unquantifiable description. Unless a canon source claims he was more powerful than so-so, then feats are all that count. A good example is Ragnos. He has no feats but we know he was stronger than Sadow and Kressh because he was their overlord and they feared his power, even when he was on his death bed.

As far Revan's knowledge is concerned we've never seen it put into practice. Malak who was Revan's apprentice, showed force lightning and force choke.

There's nothing to suggest that Revan used exotic techniques in combat that would absolutely confound the Exile, that just comes off as wishful thinking.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Uh, you do know the current Mandalore (Canderous) regards Revan as the single greatest warrior ever...

Yes! I played Kotor 1 several times. Canderous 5 years later stated in front of the Exile that he was wrong, that Revan wasn't the only exceptional Jedi of his time, that there was now the Exile.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
That argument if for anther day and you' probably lose that one too. Revan HAVES too fight the Star Forges Jedi killing droids, he HAVES to fight Bastila alone, He HAVES to fight Malak alone, all this within minutes of each other. Moreover who gives a shit, AGAIN Revan has laundry list of quotes and evidence to back him up where as The Exile has gameplay mechanics and headache inducing ramblings of fangirls.

So yeah. Next.

The part you don't get is that Revan was a prodigy of the Jedi order whereas the Exile became powerful because of her experiences, she was not merely born with a very powerful force connection, it came because of the Mando Wars. That's there difference.

And besides that we know from Malak's statement that the Jedi Masters spoke highly of the Exile's skills in combat before the Mando Wars. So we know she was noted for her combat ability as well.

I actually just looked up the word 'Prodigal' on the spell check and apparantly it means:wasteful, reckless, dissolute, profligate, extravagant, uncontrolled, cautious.
Which just confuses me, mabye its an oversight.



Notice that it doesn't say 'now in possession of all his memories', only the memories that the jedi masters had erased. And seeing as how Bastila said that revan was already in a bad way before the mind wipe and that she had already suffered sever damage, its not a huge stretch to suggest that Revan most of the memories herself and The Jedi masters simply helped that along. And anyway that quote completely contridicts the game in that Bastila says that revans memories are dead and that if you had recalled all the memories then you would have got much, much better that the relatively untrained status that Revan then possessed.



'Shrugs' It doesn't really matter as it was just a theory and so is not fact/canon.



1: Make me &
2: How does that have any relavance whatsoever.



it wasn't a contradiction, I was merely asking where it said that revan had greater Mastery than Caedus.



A: You can't sneak past them, trust me I've tried. They're even positioned next too doors so you have to stop sneaking next to them.
B: Revan also had to talk Bastila into giving up and anyway you still need to kill him a couple of times. In fact, if you keep killing him then he just realises that he's no match for you and dies anyway.
C: Her very philosophy was survival of the fittist, She was a Sith so didn't believe in mercy and Its very hard to still go easy on someone when they cut off your hand, trust me. It would have gone against her 'ideals' to go easy on the Exile.



My Names Darth Exodus, pleased to meet you.


According to Jolee Bindo, the maker of the quote, Yes.



trayas opinions do not = Fact.

She also said that the Exile was 'The greatest person have ever trained'. So I guess that puts The Exile ahead of revan, huh?



Being a prodigy doesn't automatically put you above another powerful individual. Mabye you should try taking your own advice.




revan's not going to be able to think the Exile dead. War Stragegy has no overall influence on close-combat. Also the Exile was Revans lead general, so isn't a slacker in that department.



I'd also like too bring up the fact that the Exile beat Revan on Korriban, I wonder if that has any reference, considering that it was most likely based off the abilities of Darth Revan.

Something too ponder on.

That was some of the dumbest crap I've ever read.

By the way Sexy, do you have a sister by any chance? I have a theory I want to test.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I actually just looked up the word 'Prodigal' on the spell check and apparantly it means:wasteful, reckless, dissolute, profligate, extravagant, uncontrolled, cautious.
Which just confuses me, mabye its an oversight.lol, that's just whack. What they were probably meaning was that Revan was a prodigy, which isn't all too surprising.



Revan's knowledge of Sith magics and the like would be high priority to wipe from his mind. And as for Bastila, how would she know anything? She was a Padawan-turned-Sith Apprentice attempting to turn Revan to her side, of course she'd try to pull at his strings and make him lose faith in ever truly knowing who he was and force him to become what everyone said he was. Third, in all consideration to the in-game quotes, they got retconned to hell and back.



A theory based on knowledge of Revan's tactics, victories, and her peoples' affinity for Battle Precognition.




1: Internetz say hi.
2: ??? is irrelevant.


You basically agreed with the statement, then made a 90* turn on it.




A: Since this has a touch to do with gameplay, prestige class and stealth skill level?
B: Comparison has a problem, Bastila's a headstrong Sith Apprentice whose ambition served as a catalyst for her trying to kill Revan repeatedly and got wounded in the process; whereas Sion was stated by the omniscient narrator of KotOR 2 to have been going downhill in terms of willpower from the beginning. And also, given that the Exile is female and Sion is a sexist dumbass, he's already having problems fighting off his hormones which stuck with him since puberty.
C: Kreia was never a hardcore Sith, fact. Kreia is a heretic to both Jedi and Sith, fact. And the concept of Kreia believing in no mercy to the Exile, the person she's been protective of like a mother bear until the end, and even aids on her death bed strikes me as odd.

Unless she'd ( I won't change that) already lost those memories.



i'm pretty sure thatshe only says iy after you've already joined the Sith.



Which is still pure speculation on her part and in no way is a fact.



1: I'm confused
2: ??? is an offer too explain & a statement of my confussion.



No, first of all I told you that only pre-mindwipe revan had that knowledge then I asked where it was stated that Revan has a higher level of mastery than Caedus. Which you still havn't elaborated on.



'Shrugs' My computer broke two yrs ago and I don't know much but I spent the whole game as the middle class, Sith, turned into an assassin and I'm pretty sure that I always leveled up my stealth. But I remember that I kept trying to sneak past this sithload of sith and got the crap killed out of me every time.



She was also insane from the weeks of torture and was in love with Revan. Her willpower probably wasn't that high.



Well I still think that considering that she actually lectures you about the evils of mercy throughout the game, that Sith really aren't that merciful and that She actually tells you that she won't go easy on you, that she wouldn't.

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree






Which I don't.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Unless she'd ( I won't change that) already lost those memories.Which leads us into the land of heidy-ho speculation.


She says it before you make the choice, thus(imo) throwing it into suspicion of being a ploy.


She(and other Echani) made a theory based on facts presented before her.(I'm too lazy to play up to that part of TSL right now.)


1: You can't make anyone do anything on the internet.
2: It's still relatively irrelevant. Whoa, oxymoron.


I never made the point, I'm the one who pointed out that you practically said "Yes.. wait a minute, what?"



Hah, maybe I should try a playthrough with a Sentinel/Assassin.



She doesn't cross me as a maniac, just someone whose out to kill their tormentor.



She lectured the Exile on the potential consequences of doing the right thing at the wrong time, and that by doing thus, the Exile unwittingly brought pain upon the person she helped.

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree






Which I don't.

And this how the argument ALWAYS goes, I post facts, you say: "I don't SEEZ IT". I want you to use something called LOGICAL DEDUCTION, we don't need to be spoon fed the fact that Revan was pretty 1337 by some book saying well you know that Revan guy was stronger then so and so Sith, its pointless, when we have people like Ajunta Pall (A Sith Alchemy Master, and someone who has slain more then a dozen Jedi in personal combat) saying things about Revan's pure power like this:

"So much power...it is blinding."

"You human, who bristle with power."

"The force is so strong with you human..."

Emphasis mine.

Every time Revan meets anther force user in KOTOR its usually followed by "OMG u is strong in da force!" But please tell what "celebrated" Jedi/Sith who had a connection thats described by an narrator as tremendous, only getting stronger then, stronger then that. Tell me what puts the Exile on that level...oh thats right you can't and your not going to address this properly, your going to go "Well dey be equal cauze I seem em as equals" well newsflash bucko, no one gives a shit about what you "think", prove up or shut the f*ck up. Not to mention that a few thousand years later he's mentioned in the same breath as Naga Sadow (whom they attribute blowing up stars directly too).



But was the Exiles little comment preceded by "You are power"? No. And again what you are so desperately failing to grasp is Force Connection > Skill, we've seen it time and time again that those who are strong in the force butcher those whom have decades of experience:

Luke v Vader ROTJ

Cade v Talon, Nihl, and Krayt

Zahnna(as a child) v two random Jedi Knights

Ulic v Null

Ulic v Ommin

Revan(as a n00b padawan) v Juhani a Jedi Knight being boosted by the DS

Katarn v The Seven Dark Jedi

Jaden Korr v Tavion being amped by Ragnos

And thats relatively new, Jedi/Sith if they have any type of skill + force connection the outcome is more like

Maul v Anoon

Bane v Rastaka, Joun, Farfalla

Bane v Kas'im

Vastor v Mace

Starkiller v All the Jedi he pwns

Yoda v Sidious

Anakin v Dooku

Luke v Lumiya

Caedus v Katarn and 3 other Jedi

You get the picture, and moreover, I have no reason (since you've not provided any) for to believe that the Exile is on any stage Revans equal.



Your starting to annoy me, severly. Yes Malak displayed typical offensive force manuvers, what you fail to mention is he also had the froce drain ability that he used on the Jedi in stasis. His second honorary apprentice Darth Bane, learned how to tramp out the deadliest poisons, learned the thought bomb, learned the force storm that he displays in JvS. Also thats only what he dared to use, he himself admitted that some of the powers Revan held he wouldn't even attempt.

Your argument of "We don't know how much it augmented Revans power" is pure fail, because we have the entire Star Wars as an example that proves you wrong:

- The Ancients themselves who apperently weren't that strong in the force aside from Ragnos, all of there toys brought them to demi god like status in the force.

- Aleema and Satal Keto go from spoiled weak brats playing with the force too Jedi killer, galactic threats with a simple Sith Spell book.

- Kun moves from talented padawan to most powerful being in the galaxy, with the help of Sadows notes, little instruction from Naad an amulet, and some raided knowledge of the Temple on Ossus.

- Bane goes from talented neophyte to strongest Sith in the galaxy with the help of Revans holocron

- Sion goes from nobody Sith to galactic threat with the help of Malachor

- Celeste Morne: Jedi Shadow to taking on Darth Vader

- Hett: Jedi Knight to Galactic Emperor Sith Lord with the help of a few holocrons

These are just off the top of my head, Star Wars is ripe with many more examples. And Revan has more then all those (save for the ancients) combined, not to mention knowledge of the Jedi, and other cultures. So really Revan would be the ONLY exception to the rule of someone who WASN'T empowered by the Sith teachings, are you really, logically, going to assert that?



You don't seem to get the point I'm stressing - Revan, whom is in the leauge of those like Kar Vastor and Yoda, DOESN'T NEED his exotic esoteric force powers to beat the Exile when a simple use of TK or a push would be enough, and even if she managed to get into a lightsaber fight Revan has logically:

-Jedi knowledge: Its stated that he had an insatiable appietie for all information including combat.

-Has the highest form of Battle Precognition

-Massacred dozens of Sith in the Academy, single handidly (he HAVES to do this theres no way around it, and its confirmed in KOTOR2)

-Has all that Sith knowledge which only has one real purpose: to kill, or make one stronger in the force

-Has destroyed the leaders of two warbound cultures (The Echani and Mandalorian) in single combat

Please tell me as I've asked you and anyone else more then 5 times now to prove HOW EXACTLY THE EXILE STANDS A CHANCE AGAINST REVAN, here maybe if I bold it and make it super big you'll see it:


HOW CAN THE EXILE BEAT REVAN, HOW ARE THEY EQUAL

To Darth Dipshit




http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/cheezeguy/n725075089_288918_2774.jpg

From what I could gather out of that mess of text (Proof Reading is ur friend!) your plainly: WRONG. The Jedi Masters sealed Revans memories of his entire past life, not just whatever ramblings you said. And its great that Bastila knows whats going on inside Revans mind...oh wait, she doesn't. Who cares what Bastila says, by your "logic" KOTOR2 is also wrong as it states by Bastila no less that "Revans memories can flooding back."




Hey doofus read the topic



Um when it comes to her padawan, and given the fact that she's the best source of information regarding Revan, her opinion in that case hold a very real relevance.



http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1558/answernoek4.jpg

"Greatest" is subjective ass clown, please tell, what exactly she was the greatest at? The force? Combat? Being spoon fed Kreia's lessons? Eating Traya's puss? We know its automatically not power since Nihlius was you know a shit times stronger then Exile.




Maybe, just maybe you should read the rest of my post.



Actually, he can.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_force

Read it.



http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_Precognition

Read it.




No, son, no. Some ghost =/= Revan.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/diyablo/epic-failure08.jpg

Not to mention Kreia wanted the force to die and saw the possibility of it happening through the Exile. Again, Revan>Exile. This has been debated time and time and and somehow people maintain their ignorance.

Actually, Revan being called Prodigal Knight has nothing to do with being a prodigy. It seems pretty obvious that it is alluding to the christian story of the prodigal son. The is the gist of the story:
A man has two sons. One of the sons asks his father for his share of the inheritance so that he can go live on his own. This son goes away and wastes all his money. Soon after a famine hits, and the son is starving. He decides to go back to his father. The father welcomes his son back and throws a party for him.
As you can see, Revan is the prodigal (jedi) knight because he starts out as a jedi, falls to the evils of the darkside, but then returns to the jedi.

I love these threads both parties turn to hyperbole, insubstantial statements and subjective remarks form npc's to make an argument. It all comes down to one definitive thing: combat feats, and they are on the same level there.

No, they aren't Allankles. I hate to break it to you but combat feats are only 1 issue when deciding the victor between two characters. You also have to put those combat feats into relevant circumstances, as well as force mastery and knowledge. Revan beats out the Exile in every department other than being a wound in the force.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Every time Revan meets anther force user in KOTOR its usually followed by "OMG u is strong in da force!" But please tell what "celebrated" Jedi/Sith who had a connection thats described by an narrator as tremendous, only getting stronger then, stronger then that.

Tell me what puts the Exile on that level...oh thats right you can't and your not going to address this properly, your going to go "Well dey be equal cauze I seem em as equals"

Wow?! So a few Npc comments about his force talents and that proves his the better fighter? Then why is it you haven't taken into consideration what the Jedi Masters said about the Exile, about her growing more powerful with the people she surrounded herself with and killed?

Why is it when there's an example of how the Exile is able to match Revan, you willfully ignore that info? And not every NPC in Kotor 1 acknowledged Revan's talent (that's an exaggeration) a few did, some weren't all too impressed and attacked him regardless. Doesn't really have any real substantial significance when assessing both characters. You don't get regarded as uber just by a few meaningless compliments.



Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
But was the Exiles little comment preceded by "You are power"? No. And again what you are so desperately failing to grasp is Force Connection > Skill, we've seen it time and time again that those who are strong in the force butcher those whom have decades of experience:

Power? How does that even imply anything, given that the Exile was metaphorically described in a manner that signifies an equal but opposing force? Are we going to ignore that it was a her strong connection to the force that her allowed her to become stronger in the first place? Her ability to form strong bonds with the life around her gave her a strong connection to the force. The Exile herself admits that she can feel the force more strongly than she ever did before.


Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Your starting to annoy me, severly. Yes Malak displayed typical offensive force manuvers, what you fail to mention is he also had the froce drain ability that he used on the Jedi in stasis. His second honorary apprentice Darth Bane, learned how to tramp out the deadliest poisons, learned the thought bomb, learned the force storm that he displays in JvS.

We don't even know how that force draining thing worked, because the way it worked in gameplay doesn't imply that it worked the same in the actual canon. Also note that Malak never canonically uses force drain in any offensive way. As far as Bane goes. Why are you attributing Bane's feats to Revan?

Bane himself was powerful force user possessed with enough talent in the force to accomplish those feats. He isn't Revan, nor should we assume that Revan was exactly the same nor capable of the same. This my irritation with you Revan fans, your guy has no actual feats attributed to his person that put him above the Exile therefore you turn to making baseless assumptions without restraint.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Your argument of "We don't know how much it augmented Revans power" is pure fail, because we have the entire Star Wars as an example that proves you wrong:

Look above, you have no actual info regarding Revan's combat abilities outside of his accomplishments (he's above Malak and was the best of his era as of Kotor 1). Anything beyond that and it's really clutching at straws. I like facts, I like honesty, if information arises depicting Revan accomplishing something in the force that puts him above the Kotor 1 feats and the Exile's feats, I'll concede.

All we have now is a neophyte Bane stating he wouldn't want to try some of the techniques on Revan's holocrons (what are they? and why wouldn't he try them?) and some subjective, unquantifiable and ultimately meaningless quotes with regards to his combat level. Stating his Kar Vastor's/Yoda level is pure conjecture, unsupported by any kind of evidence.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, they aren't Allankles. I hate to break it to you but combat feats are only 1 issue when deciding the victor between two characters. You also have to put those combat feats into relevant circumstances, as well as force mastery and knowledge. Revan beats out the Exile in every department other than being a wound in the force.

I've tried to make you understand my perspective better.

Here's basically what I'm saying: Revan is very powerful and as I'm not one to indulge in hyperbole or unsupported compliments and quotes, I live my remarks on his force abilities at that. I then try to discover if there's any evidence (whatsoever) that puts Revan's combat abilities above the Exile based on his force abilities.

And quite frankly there's no evidence on how this force ability would manifest itself in a fight with the Exile or whether it would actually give Revan the edge over the Exile.

I've already taken into consideration their respective talents/abilities and the conclusion I draw is that the Exile has fought characters that were as powerful or more powerful in the force, and not knowing how these fights go down canonically, my conclusion is that I can't know whether Revan's largely unknown level of power gives him the edge.

So I see it being 50/50, if I had more info I would have a better anD more clear idea.

Originally posted by Allankles
I've tried to make you understand my perspective better.

Here's basically what I'm saying: Revan is very powerful and as I'm not one to indulge in hyperbole or unsupported compliments and quotes, I live my remarks on his force abilities at that. I then try to discover if there's any evidence (whatsoever) that puts Revan's combat abilities above the Exile based on his force abilities.

And quite frankly there's no evidence on how this force ability would manifest itself in a fight with the Exile or whether it would actually give Revan the edge over the Exile.

I've already taken into consideration their respective talents/abilities and the conclusion I draw is that the Exile has fought characters that were as powerful or more powerful in the force, and not knowing how these fights go down canonically, my conclusion is that I can't know whether Revan's largely unknown level of power gives him the edge.

So I see it being 50/50, if I had more info I would have a better anD more clear idea.

Explain what definitive talent the Exile has that would be relevant in combat? Revan had the combined knowledge of Malachor V and Korriban, the Exile was a wound with nothing else really going for her. Hell if you want the fight to be a little more even, put Malak in there although it would be the same result. You just need to realize that the Exile is nothing special.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Explain what definitive talent the Exile has that would be relevant in combat? Revan had the combined knowledge of Malachor V and Korriban, the Exile was a wound with nothing else really going for her. Hell if you want the fight to be a little more even, put Malak in there although it would be the same result. You just need to realize that the Exile is nothing special.

What do you mean by nothing special? And what about what she accomplished combat wise suggests that? Because I'm not going to explain anything if I don't know what page you're on.

None of her accomplishments put her near Revan. Nihilus? Any one from your party could have defeated him. Sion? Talked him to death? Kreia? Nothing suggests she was going all out. Anything else?

Exactly thats what I've been asking this ass clown the whole time and he just dodges the question.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
None of her accomplishments put her near Revan. Nihilus? Any one from your party could have defeated him. Sion? Talked him to death? Kreia? Nothing suggests she was going all out. Anything else?

Any from my party could have defeated him? Conveniently forgetting that the outcome of that fight was dependent on whether the Exile was strong enough to face Nihilus? Or are forgetting that the confrontation with Nihilus was determined by whether or not the Exile was ready to face him?

Again, you have to assume that the Exile isn't the overpowering factor behind Nihilus death for that argument to stick.

Talking Sion to death? Are you kidding? That's not even an argument, I won't bother to give such a poor attempt at making a point the benefit of a counter argument. Suffice to say, I get the picture of a rabid fanboy when I read such statements, and will wisely steer clear of certain arguments.

Kreia, nothing suggests she was going all out? Care to provide a quote in their duel that would suggest such a thing? I mean I remember her clearly stating that She would kill the Exile or be killed. I remember her trying to kill the Exile and forcing the fight even when the Exile is reluctant to kill her. I mean, nothing in the fight suggests anything but a duel to the finish between Master and Apprentice. If there's anything that suggests different provide the evidence.

The confrontation between nihilus and the exile was NOT based on whether she was strong enough or ready to face him. The Exile could defeat nihilus because he COULDN'T force drain her because she was a wound in the force, and after he attempted that he became very weak.

watch and see for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpO__IJra4o&feature=related

Now, tell us how the Exile would beat Revan, cause as I said, all those are weaker then Revan, now how does she beat Revan what makes her equal to him combative wise considering Revans got a higher force mastery then Caedus, whom is stronger then Vader, please tell. And if your going to offer some dispute, add proof tool.

Hey man calm down, it's not like Allankles is Noobaris. He just doesn't understand.

also on wookieepedia on both the exiles page and nihilus's page it states that nihilus was destroyed by mandalore, visas, and the exile.

nihilus's page says this

"The Exile, whose tie to the Force had been severed, being basically of the same nature as himself, could not be consumed by Nihilus, so when he tried, he exhausted himself and was made vulnerable. They engaged in a brutal fight, which nearly destroyed Visas, yet when the Exile figured his weakness the battle turned. Visas entered a trance and tried to disrupt the link with her former Master, undermining his connection to the Force, then the three of them managed to defeat Darth Nihilus and escape the vessel's destruction."

the exile's page says this

"the Exile participated in the Battle of Telos IV and faced Darth Nihilus aboard the Ravager to keep him from destroying Telos, which he was doing to fuel his hunger for the Force. With the assistance of Visas Marr and Mandalore with his Mandalorians, the Exile defeated him and headed to Malachor V."

so consider the exiles supposed "feat" of defeating nihilus completely shot down.

The hipocrisy is strong with you.notworthy



Explain what definitive talent Revan has that would be relevant in combat? Sith Rituals? Force Bonding? What?




It's funny how that 'combined knowledge' didn't help Sion, Nihilus or Traya when the Exile pwned their ass's. Or the legions of Sith she butchered.

How about this:


Revan (only) feats:

Took down Juhani
Took down 2 taruantereks
Beat Malak at least twice
Beat Bastila multiple times then talked her round
Took out the Korriban temple, possibly with help
Knew alot of Sith Rituals.
Killed alot of non-force sensitives with lightning
Was a fantastic stratigist
possibly had battle precognition

Exile (only) feats:

Took down Visas
Took out alot of those storm beasts including that giant one.
Took out the Korriban test, including ghosts of 6 jedi, mandalorians, party members and Revan as well as actual monsters.
Beat Traya twice as well as those tricky lightsabers
Beat Sion multiple times then talked him round.
Took out the Malachor temple without help
Killed alot of mercenaries without help
Knew alot of unhelpful techniques
Was a great stratigist
possibly had battle precognition (I don't know if you learn it or if you always had it)

Frankly I beginning to think that a draw is pushing it. But I still say draw.

This isn't a feat wars kid, and your wrong on Revan's list but I'm done arguing with handitards, our point is Revan has showed greater force mastery then Jacen Solo who was stated to be stronger then Vader, Revans force mastery would be far to much for her and his force connection gives him the added advantage of being leet in saber combat.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
This isn't a feat wars kid, and your wrong on Revan's list but I'm done arguing with handitards, our point is Revan has showed greater force mastery then Jacen Solo who was stated to be stronger then Vader, Revans force mastery would be far to much for her and his force connection gives him the added advantage of being leet in saber combat.

Wrong. Revan hasn't shown force mastery that suggests anything, outside of pure speculation.

Was he a master of the force? Yes. Do we have any description on his combat related force abilities? No. The Rakata give a vague description of Revan attacking a few of their number with lightning from above, and that's it. The best we can glim from that is that Revan knows a technique similar to the weather control of the night sisters of dathormir, and you and I both know that's doesn't prove anything either way.

Furthermore his little ambiguous feat with Rakata doesn't prove anything either way. Jacen killed Fett because of the weakness of her mind or maybe because he wasn't deft enough with that particular technique, either way its a piss poor example to use in a comparison of force mastery, given Jacen's many other force displays, and also because we don't have nearly as good a description of what Revan did to the Rakata.

Jacen > Revan (unless proven otherwise with more info). And Vader > Revan (until Revan performs a single canonical feat that eclipses Vader's displays). And please don't underestimate Vader, Sidious' personal opinion was that Vader could still have ecplisped him in power if he became completely dedicated to the dark side, according to Sidious it Vader's psyche that limited his potential not his wounds.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
The confrontation between nihilus and the exile was NOT based on whether she was strong enough or ready to face him. The Exile could defeat nihilus because he COULDN'T force drain her because she was a wound in the force, and after he attempted that he became very weak.

watch and see for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpO__IJra4o&feature=related

I know what happened. The important part is that Nihilus was still "too strong" according to Visas and the Exile had to shake her out of her pessimism and used her to weaken Nihilus. The funny thing though is we know the Exile's canonical participation in the battle as well as Visas' but we don't know Mandalore's. Surely, he can't have been firing shots in the middle of a Jedi duel?

Originally posted by Allankles
]Wrong. Revan hasn't shown force mastery that suggests anything, outside of pure speculation.
Logical deduction. We don't need specific quotes just because you want them. He was a master of the force (whatever the hell that means), who had a wide variety of techniques.


Force lightning, ripping the language out, giving them basic, etc. Something Jacen couldn't do with Fett's daughter.


I love your maybes and your pitiful attempts to diminish Revan's superiority. Jacen failed doing it to one person whereas Revan did it to a species. It just shows Revan's force mastery over some techniques is superior to Jacen's.



Jacen's raw force potential and Vader's (before he became machine) are both superior to Revan's. However, Revan has more techniques under his belt. You need to stop voicing your displeasure over a particular character, or at least offer a cogent argument.

Co-sign^

He keeps wanting for "combat related feats" which is so utterly stupid, considering he just admitted Revans a "master of the force" when your that strong it takes little, little effort to direct the force in an offensive manner, especially considering the three Master were able to subdue the Exile in the force with relative ease while Kreia simply force pushed them away twice then killed them all with a flick of her hand. If thats all it took to pin the Exile down, three Jedi, then Revan would toss her around like a rag-doll. It to the combined effort of the Jedi Council to subdue Revans unconscious mind.

This is the 6TH time I've asked this:

HOW CAN THE EXILE STAND UP AGAINST REVAN? HOW IS SHE EQUAL.

Your not debating, your only bitching about Revan.

acstyles, you have a retarded avatar. but if it were any other presidential candidate, it would still be retarded. cause we are going to hate whoever is president next. no matter what.

Guy who's name I don't care enough to know...your an ass monkey/lame cynic, Obama is the shit, I've been a supporter of his since his 2004 speech at the DNC. Just because most of us have become politically active during the dark times (2000 - Jan 2009) doesn't mean all presidents are like or going to be like "He who shall not be named" need I remind you at one point "The shamed one", and America was almost universally loved. But yea Obama > j00




http://iknowtheledge.com/images/2008/04/obamaposse.jpg



http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9987/c43db51bb44930fullhj5.gif

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Guy who's name I don't care enough to know...your an ass monkey/lame cynic, Obama is the shit, I've been a supporter of his since his 2004 speech at the DNC. Just because most of us have become politically active during the dark times (2000 - Jan 2009) doesn't mean all presidents are like or going to be like "He who shall not be named" need I remind you at one point "The shamed one", and America was almost universally loved. But yea Obama > j00




http://iknowtheledge.com/images/2008/04/obamaposse.jpg



http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9987/c43db51bb44930fullhj5.gif Muahahahaha

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2391/owned9wzfk1.jpg

Originally posted by Allankles
I know what happened. The important part is that Nihilus was still "too strong" according to Visas and the Exile had to shake her out of her pessimism and used her to weaken Nihilus. The funny thing though is we know the Exile's canonical participation in the battle as well as Visas' but we don't know Mandalore's. Surely, he can't have been firing shots in the middle of a Jedi duel?

who said he had to use a gun? he is better off with melee weapons in kotor2.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
at one point "The shamed one", and America was almost universally loved. But yea Obama > j00
universally loved. I take it you speak of regan?

I think he means Bush, or mabye Bill Clinton.




The Exile can handle force lightning considering that the actual power or proficientcy level of it is'nt clear.
And I doubt that Revan's gonna kill her by making her understand wookiespeak or anything. This has no relevence in combat.



Is there really an ect or did you just put that in too look good.



1. This can be accredited too poor training
2. This has no relevence in a fight.




Revan has alot of rituals under her belt, nothing that would put her above the Exile in terms of a fight.



Since both their power levels are relatively unknown the only way too guage how would win is with their respective feats and the victories they achieved. Which are EQUAL.

I disagree. What are all these powers that Revan knows and Jacen does not?

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
I disagree. What are all these powers that Revan knows and Jacen does not?

Dark side knowledge. Sith Rituals. Whatever Revan learned from Malachor V and Korriban.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I think he means Bush, or mabye Bill Clinton.




The Exile can handle force lightning considering that the actual power or proficientcy level of it is'nt clear.
And I doubt that Revan's gonna kill her by making her understand wookiespeak or anything. This has no relevence in combat.



Is there really an ect or did you just put that in too look good.



1. This can be accredited too poor training
2. This has no relevence in a fight.




Revan has alot of rituals under her belt, nothing that would put her above the Exile in terms of a fight.



Since both their power levels are relatively unknown the only way too guage how would win is with their respective feats and the victories they achieved. Which are EQUAL.
no

Bush right after 9/11, n00blets.



We can gauge Revan's proficency and usage by the statements about his force power which was described as (A REHASH for the R'tards)

- Synonyms with Power

- Blinding

- Bristling

- Jolee seeing the force swirl around him

etc.

Now, when Bane a neophyte Sith apprentice BEFORE he had Revan's holocron, who was albiet very strong in the force, but NEVER described how Revan is, within the first few hours of learning force lighting he unleashed this:

"The smell of burning ozone wafted through the archives...the room crackled and hissed as he channeled the energy of the force and flung it about the room in great arching bolts of blue-violet lightning...Githany stood with Bane at the center of a maelstrom...tearing her hair and the fold of her robes."

Now if Bane in his first attempt ever could do that, imagine what Revan a master of both sides of the force could would do to the Exile.

So...the Exile can handle it...cause you say so? The only time we see canon force lighting appearance in the game it comes from Atris zapping Brianna, The Exiles apprentice, now, she makes NO attempt what so ever to defend herself from it, my point being why would the Exile NOT teach her a defense to a technique so widely used by the Sith and Dark Siders in general? Possible answer: The EXILE doesn't know one, aside from probably attempting to dodge, is there even a power in the game that allows you to dodge or redirect force lightning? Or do you just simply tank it. If so, if she tries that shit with Revan she'll get BBQ'D.




You really don't understand the force do you? If Revan could do that to an entire species without killing them, imagine what he could do if he decided he WANTED to kill them? With such subtle manipulations of the force the possibilities are endless in ways he could destroy a foe, he could constrict the blood flow to the brain, burst a blood vessel, liquify the brain, one swift force powered jab at the ear takes away her entire sense of balance. And considering The Exiles defenses were completely dominated by three rather weak Jedi Masters, Revan would easily be able to do the same.


http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1306/youfailve0.jpg

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Dark side knowledge. Sith Rituals. Whatever Revan learned from Malachor V and Korriban.
Except for the fact that Jacen does have dark side knowledge. Revan knows of knows the thought bomb, force storm, and an unknown number of other sith rituals (not that rituals put give an advantage in combat). What did Revan learn from Malacor and Korriban? There is no proof that it is anywhere near what Jacen has been proven to know.
Did you read DN and LotF, or do I have to give you examples of what stuff Jacen definitely can do? The only advantage in knowledge Revan has is sith rituals, and that does not prove that Revan beats Jacen like you say.


Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
That argument if for anther day and you' probably lose that one too. Revan HAVES too fight the Star Forges Jedi killing droids, he HAVES to fight Bastila alone, He HAVES to fight Malak alone, all this within minutes of each other.
And yet there are some enemies that Exile "HAVES" to face. The same arguments you use can be be used against you. My point isn't to say that Exile beats or even equals Revan. I am just annoyed when people try to say that that feat puts Revan way above Exile.

Actually, there is an option for Exile to submit to the jedi's judgement.

True which option is canon though.

Jacen Sith knowledge comes from Lumiya a failed Sith Apprentice, everything else comes from the other force civilizations he visited. Everything that Kreia and company learned from Malachor, Revan has since he plundered it first.




The POINT being, that those the Exile faced were definitively weaker then Revan, as even one of them admits. A case however can be made that Malak empowered by the Star Forge could beat the Exile. The same can't be said for Traya/Atris/Sion. Revans "must" feats surpass the Exiles.

No one has made a single valid case for them being equals, at all. It all amounts to: "Well she beat sion and kRIEA!!!" and I'm sorry that doesn't cut it. Because most of the Exile side can't argue for shit, it all degrades to downplaying Revans feats.



Prove it happened...oh wait

And its irrelevant since if the Exile does refuse she still can't stop it.

Or game play mechanics which is NON-canon

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
Except for the fact that Jacen does have dark side knowledge. Revan knows of knows the thought bomb, force storm, and an unknown number of other sith rituals (not that rituals put give an advantage in combat). What did Revan learn from Malacor and Korriban? There is no proof that it is anywhere near what Jacen has been proven to know.
Did you read DN and LotF, or do I have to give you examples of what stuff Jacen definitely can do? The only advantage in knowledge Revan has is sith rituals, and that does not prove that Revan beats Jacen like you say.
Jacen has NO dark side knowledge whatsoever. The only thing he gains from being a sith is battle awareness, and the way he gains the power is absolutely retarded (Thanks LOTF authors). Revan has holocrons, combined knowledge of Malachor V and Korriban. Sorry, but Jacen doesn't compare in terms of dark side knowledge.

Originally posted by Chick Magnet
He keeps wanting for "combat related feats" which is so utterly stupid, considering he just admitted Revans a "master of the force" when your that strong it takes little, little effort to direct the force in an offensive manner, especially considering the three Master were able to subdue the Exile in the force with relative ease while Kreia simply force pushed them away twice then killed them all with a flick of her hand. If thats all it took to pin the Exile down, three Jedi, then Revan would toss her around like a rag-doll. It to the combined effort of the Jedi Council to subdue Revans unconscious mind.

This is the 6TH time I've asked this:

HOW CAN THE EXILE STAND UP AGAINST REVAN? HOW IS SHE EQUAL.

Your not debating, your only bitching about Revan.

Look to me it's a 50/50 affair. You want to disagree with me? Fine, just keep it civil and acknowledge the fact that there's no evidence for Revan's combat related abilities outside of the outcomes of his duels with Malak and a few others.

I'm not merely going to assume his on Kar Vastor's level based on some inconsequential appearances (as far as combat is concerned) and quotes. Do you understand that?

Based on the only definitive thing I can glim from the canon sources about Revans' combat abilties, he is no better than the Exile, until that changes I'm not going to make assumptions like Revan's force mastery > Jacen or Vader.

That's ridiculous to me. One was the chosen one with the highest raw force potential in the mythos (who Sidious believed could surpass him even after Mustafar) and the other is his grandson (granted he was messed up but very talented in the force, who was described as being almost or more powerful than Vader). There isn't enough info for me to rank Revan above the likes of those sith.

As far as the Exile getting overcome by the Masters? Ever heard of preparation? Betrayal? We saw Revan get overwhelmed by the Sith lightning of that mad former korriban head master, does it matter? Of course not, the two parties had the element of surprise.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Jacen has NO dark side knowledge whatsoever. The only thing he gains from being a sith is battle awareness, and the way he gains the power is absolutely retarded (Thanks LOTF authors). Revan has holocrons, combined knowledge of Malachor V and Korriban. Sorry, but Jacen doesn't compare in terms of dark side knowledge.

Again with the assumptions. Revan had a lot of knowledge, fine but we don't even have an idea of how broad this knowledge was. Also, knowledge is an irrelevant factor for me. Dooku had plenty more knowledge than Anakin. The Jedi librarians probably have more knowledge than just about every Jedi in their generation doesn't mean they are the best fighters/combatants.

Atris had amassed perhaps centuries worth of Sith knowledge from Jedi archives all across the galaxy, didn't matter. Knowledge is one thing, the extent to which it affects combat ability is another. It positively affects combat ability in some instances, doesn't make much of a difference in others.

The point is we don't know anything about how this knowledge manifested itself on Revan's combat abilties.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Jacen has NO dark side knowledge whatsoever. The only thing he gains from being a sith is battle awareness, and the way he gains the power is absolutely retarded (Thanks LOTF authors).
I was thinking you meant techniques traditionally considered "darkside" (ie choke, lightning). What do you mean exactly when you say "dark side knowledge".
I find it silly to assume that Jacen learned nothing else from his two sith masters, AND at the same time assume that Revan learned tons of techniques from Malacor and Korriban.



Can you give me some examples of techniques Revan learns from those places?

That is more reasonable.

sad i registered for this post but one things annoying me i like revan and exile the same but a lot of u are saying revan had to kill all these people by himself the exile did as well she took out trayas academy sith marauders sith lords sith assassins ans sion and traya plus 3 floating light sabers thats the same if not more then revan took on by himself so stop saying revan did this and that by himself he has helpers for alot of the last level the exile is by herself for the whole last level if thats not equal to revan then i dnt know what is

Here's to hoping 'The Old Republic' will solve this problem once and for all, as well as give these two some definitive feat. I'm sure I'm not the only one getting annoyed at the inconclusive 'Revan vs' threads.

The Old Republic deals with events some 300 years later, Revan and the Exile will get a mention at best.

Or maybe they get "frozen in stasis".

That would be effin' lame. Since TOR takes place 300 years after the original KotOR, I find it difficult to believe that Revan's actions will have such an immense effect on the world as to necessitate giving further, more specific information about him and his abilities.

Exile easy. Death of the Force....

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
That would be effin' lame. Since TOR takes place 300 years after the original KotOR, I find it difficult to believe that Revan's actions will have such an immense effect on the world as to necessitate giving further, more specific information about him and his abilities.

I think Revan and the Exile had to do something to the sith empire. After kotor 2 there was barely any jedi left, their potential sith rivals in the triumvirate were dead, the mandalorians are trying to rebuild their numbers and the republic was barely surviving. That is the perfect opportunity to attack, it makes no sense for you wait three hundred years so that your enemies can revive the jedi order and rebuild its government/military.

Well, we certainly have no idea what exactly did Revan do in the Unknown Regions that stopped the 'True Sith' from invading Republic space.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
i would say that the exile has done equally impresive feats such as slaughtering all the sith assassins, dark jedi, sith marauder, etc.... then after that having the stamina to kill sion multiple times and then kill traya, then her lightsabers, all by himself. thats pretty impressive. sure malak was in the star forge which boosted his power but sion was at malachor 5 which also boosted him. so they have each done imperssive feats so it comes down to what side theyre on

The Exile is a SHE

Originally posted by alterangel
First off: The Exile is a SHE get it right.

Second off: Kreia did NOT train Revan. She enccountered him and even says that looking at revan was like "staring into the heart of the force"

Third: Revan can manipulate multiple sides of the force from dark to light but i doubt he would dwelve into the dark side in this battle not that he would need to.

Fourth: Revan's force knowledge surpasses the exile due to the exiles limited use through her force bonds. Revan however has accessed many sith holocrons and was the single most powerful Sith during the Mandolorian wars.

P.S. the only reason she trumped scion was not through pure skill but an overwhelming strength of will. So basically she is a good politician. Don't get me wrong i have nothing against the exile and im not a sith fanboy but the exile just cant stand toe to toe with Revan plain and simple

yeah what u said

because sion could have gotten up like 30000 more times and the Exile would someday get tired and slaghtered by sion.
sry for double post

i thnk its a double post unless some1 posted in 5 min...

Originally posted by kotorfan
yeah what u said

because sion could have gotten up like 30000 more times and the Exile would someday get tired and slaghtered by sion.
sry for double post

i thnk its a double post unless some1 posted in 5 min...

I could pull the post you're agreeing with apart, I could pull your post apart, or I could analyze the whole argument, but why bother? BL is over. I might have to go emo for a while to cope with it. At least there's Heroes, but HRG is no substitute for Alan Shore.

No one is on Alan Shore's level. No one. But HRG and a handful of other fictional badasses are on a tier just below him.

"She said greatest student not the most powerful student. And greatest does not equal to strongest.

I'm pretty sure the greatest person will win over the strongest because strength isn't the only thing that you need in a battle.

"She said greatest student not the most powerful student. And greatest does not equal to strongest."

Greatest triumphs over strongest, strength isn't the only thing you need to win in a battle.

Originally posted by Ultra Nihilus
"She said greatest student not the most powerful student. And greatest does not equal to strongest."

Greatest triumphs over strongest, strength isn't the only thing you need to win in a battle. You're wrong there boyo. Greatest is an ambiguous term and can mean either most powerful, most skilled, most accomplished etc etc.

In a one-on-one duel, strict combat prowess relies not on one's personal achievements in EVERYTHING but on one's ability to fight.

"You're wrong there boyo. Greatest is an ambiguous term and can mean either most powerful, most skilled, most accomplished etc etc.

In a one-on-one duel, strict combat prowess relies not on one's personal achievements in EVERYTHING but on one's ability to fight."

No, strength isn't the only thing that you need to fight. There is skill and speed and in a jedi battle the strongest force user will win.

Originally posted by Ultra Nihilus
"You're wrong there boyo. Greatest is an ambiguous term and can mean either most powerful, most skilled, most accomplished etc etc.

In a one-on-one duel, strict combat prowess relies not on one's personal achievements in EVERYTHING but on one's ability to fight."

No, strength isn't the only thing that you need to fight. There is skill and speed and in a jedi battle the strongest force user will win. Use the quote button in the bottom right of the post box and quote me saying anything about strength.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Strength=win!1