Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

You can be incredibly skilled, predict your opponents every move, have all the counters ready...
But at the end of the day, your skills don't matter if you aren't fast enough to put them to
good use against an opponent who is faster than yourself. Going by logic, Karate Kid wouldn't
beat Spider-Man, and Cap definately wouldn't. All skill in the world won't help if you can't
hit your opponent, and possibly will be knocked out before thinking of it. You might have the
thought of dodging your opponent's attack, but you don't got the speed to live up to it.

My point is, speed counters skill. At least if we debate logically.
Oh, and I am well aware of this not belonging to this section, but the first impression I got of this site was the lack of knowledge on basic psychics, so felt like pointing this out...

Depends on the speed difference.

Originally posted by Mindset
Depends on the speed difference.

If the speed difference is on 1-90%, and the faster one got limited experience, then skill might take it. I know from IRL experiences. However, people here claims that Cap beats Spider-Man in hand-to-hand combat, which is just plain ridicolous. Spider-Man is AT LEAST 100% faster than Cap, and he also got superhuman strenght to make the first punch the lethal one. And Spider-Man do got experience with hand-to-hand combat, so he won't just hit wildly.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
If the speed difference is on 1-90%, and the faster one got limited experience, then skill might take it. I know from IRL experiences. However, people here claims that Cap beats Spider-Man in hand-to-hand combat, which is just plain ridicolous. Spider-Man is at least 100% faster than Cap, and he also got superhuman strenght to make the first punch the lethal one. You're ignoring Cap's speed feats and CIS which still affects Spiderman in fights here.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
If the speed difference is on 1-90%, and the faster one got limited experience, then skill might take it. I know from IRL experiences. However, people here claims that Cap beats Spider-Man in hand-to-hand combat, which is just plain ridicolous. Spider-Man is AT LEAST 100% faster than Cap, and he also got superhuman strenght to make the first punch the lethal one. And Spider-Man do got experience with hand-to-hand combat, so he won't just hit wildly.

so when a police officer shoots out a tire of a car going 50 to 60 miles an hour you mean to tell me speed>>skill? speed is only >>> skill if the skilled person doesn't have the reflexes to react to the speed of thier opponent.

Originally posted by Mindset
You're ignoring Cap's speed feats and CIS which still affects Spiderman in fights here.

Spider-Man is generally accepted to be much faster than Cap. Cap got no speed feats that should put him close to Spider-Man, except his fights against him. But we know Cap's fights shouldn't be taken too seriously, like when he knocked Hulk down in Ultimates.

Originally posted by fangirl101
so when a police officer shoots out a tire of a car going 50 to 60 miles an hour you mean to tell me speed>>skill? speed is only >>> skill if the skilled person doesn't have the reflexes to react to the speed of thier opponent.

You can't compare a car-vs-gun case with a martial arts brawl.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
You can't compare a car-vs-gun case with a martial arts brawl. yes i can. it's all hand eye coordination.

Originally posted by fangirl101
yes i can. it's all hand eye coordination.

That doesn't make any sense. Hand-to-hand combat got circumstances that car-to-gun doesn't. Besides, the bullet travels faster than the car, so it's still speed surpassing the driving skills, to use your own example against you.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
That doesn't make any sense. Hand-to-hand combat got circumstances that car-to-gun doesn't. Besides, the bullet travels faster than the car, so it's still speed surpassing the driving skills, to use your own example against you.

the bullet travels, but the person firing the shot does not. the bullet is fired after the person knows where to shoot. also, reaction speeds that are closer to the body are often faster than reaction speeds away from the body. example, wonder woman has faster than light reaction speed when she blocks. but she does not have faster than light speed when she attacks. more than likely it is just at light speed.

Originally posted by fangirl101
the bullet travels, but the person firing the shot does not. the bullet is fired after the person knows where to shoot. also, reaction speeds that are closer to the body are often faster than reaction speeds away from the body. example, wonder woman has faster than light reaction speed when she blocks. but she does not have faster than light speed when she attacks. more than likely it is just at light speed.

Use the excuses you want, but it's still the speed of the bullet that allows him to hit. Make the bullets move half as fast as the car, and they won't hit, making my example of speed superiorty clear.

And for your reaction speed, yes. You are faster in some areas than others. But the one twice as fast as you should be much faster in all those areas, don't you think? If it's not something lame like handsigns, that is.

Karate Kid has demonstrated ridiculously fast reaction time and reflexes

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
You can be incredibly skilled, predict your opponents every move, have all the counters ready...
But at the end of the day, your skills don't matter if you aren't fast enough to put them to
good use against an opponent who is faster than yourself. Going by logic, Karate Kid wouldn't
beat Spider-Man, and Cap definately wouldn't. All skill in the world won't help if you can't
hit your opponent, and possibly will be knocked out before thinking of it. You might have the
thought of dodging your opponent's attack, but you don't got the speed to live up to it.

My point is, speed counters skill. At least if we debate logically.
Oh, and I am well aware of this not belonging to this section, but the first impression I got of this site was the lack of knowledge on basic psychics, so felt like pointing this out...

It's a logical point, unfortunately people downplay it a lot since comics themselves don't tend to get that right or they create conditions to try and balance the fights.

It also depends on the speed difference of course. Slightly faster won't do too well against superior skill. Now a huge gap in speed makes a huge difference.

Nah Skill is > speed. Flash and Superman get cold cocked all the time by people that shouldn't hit em while Cap and Shang Chi are always tough to hit.

Originally posted by piccolo84
Nah Skill is > speed. Flash and Superman get cold cocked all the time by people that shouldn't hit em while Cap and Shang Chi are always tough to hit.


Difference between the two is Flash and Supes, mainly Flash, doesnt fight people with skill nor people as fast as them. Yea, they get hit, but not from people who have a deal of skill. Its only because Flash and Supes are overpowered, thus have to get jobbed in order to get hit. Usually.

Cap and Shang are hard to hit by people who arent that much slower than them to begin with. Because they have the skill, they can dodge and evade blows easier.

I do agree though. Skill > Speed. Like some have said, it depends on the speed gap.

It doesn't matter how skilled you are if your opponent can get behind you every time.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Difference between the two is Flash and Supes, mainly Flash, doesnt fight people with skill nor people as fast as them. Yea, they get hit, but not from people who have a deal of skill. Its only because Flash and Supes are overpowered, thus have to get jobbed in order to get hit. Usually.

nah it's mos def because they aren't skilled enough or in Flash case it's because he's cocky as shit, not because they are overpowered. put Cap and Shang in Superman and Flash's body and then they'd be overpowered, on the flip, you put Flash and Kal in Cap and Shang's body and they'll already have been bodied 500x's over.

Originally posted by fangirl101
so when a police officer shoots out a tire of a car going 50 to 60 miles an hour you mean to tell me speed>>skill? speed is only >>> skill if the skilled person doesn't have the reflexes to react to the speed of thier opponent.

Ignoring what was already mentioned about this. We're talking about a car which has the maneuverability of rock compared to a human. Cars can go really fast in ONE direction. It can't change directions very fast at all. In terms of the movements of the gun when trying to shoot out a tire, the car is barely moving. most of the time its moving further away in a straight line which is just the target getting smaller. If the car is moving perpendicular to the shooter you still have a car going at a constant velocity which is relatively easy to predict. If you put this in a hand to hand fight analogy that'd be like a car thats 1 foot away from you going 60mph around you in a circle. So like 15 revolutions per second around you. Even if it's going at a constant speed you have to just be lucky to shoot out a tire (ie. constantly shoot in it's direction and hope it runs into your shot.)

Now add onto that a car that can CHANGE directions at 60 mph. it can be coming right at you at 60 mph then sidestep u and come running at 60 mph at your back in like 1/10 of a second. And now imagine the car constantly doing that every second. That would be an analogy for speed vs skill.

Speed for comic characters doesn't just mean you can run in a straight line really fast (This is travel speed which most ppl here agree is totally different for a lot of characters compared to their fighting speed). If you can fight at a higher speed that means your reaction times are faster, your ability to change directions are faster. It's basically the other guy going in slow motion.

If theres a top line martial artist that can only move 5 times slower than I can, I'm pretty sure even I can beat them. The average human reaction time to visual stimuli is like 0.2 secs. So that'd be a full second of "I can do whatever I want" and he won't even be able to react. I don't care what your skill is, if I can punch you before you can twitch (add to this me punching when I see you start to blink at 5x slower rates), I'm winning this fight. I'm of course ignoring the speed you get when training as a martial artist. You do increase your reaction times and speed of punches by a good amount when you train but this thread was straight speed vs skill.

skill wins. Deathstroke put a serious hurting on Flash b4. and could do so again because of his skill.

so the maker of the thread was both an idiot, ignorant and a sock go figure.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
You can be incredibly skilled, predict your opponents every move, have all the counters ready...
But at the end of the day, your skills don't matter if you aren't fast enough to put them to
good use against an opponent who is faster than yourself. Going by logic, Karate Kid wouldn't
beat Spider-Man, and Cap definately wouldn't. All skill in the world won't help if you can't
hit your opponent, and possibly will be knocked out before thinking of it. You might have the
thought of dodging your opponent's attack, but you don't got the speed to live up to it.

My point is, speed counters skill. At least if we debate logically.
Oh, and I am well aware of this not belonging to this section, but the first impression I got of this site was the lack of knowledge on basic psychics, so felt like pointing this out...

The speed difference counts for a whoooole lot. Otherwise linebackers would never catch receivers and running backs.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
Spider-Man is generally accepted to be much faster than Cap. Cap got no speed feats that should put him close to Spider-Man, except his fights against him. But we know Cap's fights shouldn't be taken too seriously, like when he knocked Hulk down in Ultimates.

Yes he does. Any feat Spidey has, Cap has one to match.

Originally posted by complexbrother
skill wins. Deathstroke put a serious hurting on Flash b4. and could do so again because of his skill. While Slade does have way more skill than Wally he also has a ludicrously fast first step and reaction speed.

Originally posted by superbatman86
While Slade does have way more skill than Wally he also has a ludicrously fast first step and reaction speed.

He also uses his hands well to shed blockers