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Before the last Crisis D.C. boasted probably one of the best writing teams ever put together; with the likes of Geoff Johns, Grant Morisson, Mark Waid, Jeph Loeb, Gail Simone and Greg Rucka all on regular books, and with the likes of Metzler and Robinson filling in on other titles. However, Mark Waid, Jeph Loeb and Greg Rucka have left, and grant Morisson has said he will only concentrate on Batman after the crisis. It seems as though D.C. is going to have a tough time emulating its former greatness after the crisis.

I mean when you consider how many great books D.C. where putting out before the Crisis ; Teen Titans, JSA, Flash, Identity Crisis, Birds of Prey, Gotham Central, Seven Soldiers its hard to see which non Geoff Johns books match up. With the exception of Wonder Woman, most of the new non Geoff Johns books really suck. I wish they'd bring in some new talent. I know Mark Miller recently made reference to how much he would like to write Superman, Joss Wheldon has said in the he'd like to write the JLA, why won't D.C. make some effort to sign some established talent. At the moment they are WAY to reliant on Geoff Johns, and if he decides to move on then D.C. truly are screwed.

Variance.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Before the last Crisis D.C. boasted probably one of the best writing teams ever put together; with the likes of Geoff Johns, Grant Morisson, Mark Waid, Jeph Loeb, Gail Simone and Greg Rucka all on regular books, and with the likes of Metzler and Robinson filling in on other titles. However, Mark Waid, Jeph Loeb and Greg Rucka have left, and grant Morisson has said he will only concentrate on Batman after the crisis. It seems as though D.C. is going to have a tough time emulating its former greatness after the crisis.

I mean when you consider how many great books D.C. where putting out before the Crisis ; Teen Titans, JSA, Flash, Identity Crisis, Birds of Prey, Gotham Central, Seven Soldiers its hard to see which non Geoff Johns books match up. With the exception of Wonder Woman, most of the new non Geoff Johns books really suck. I wish they'd bring in some new talent. I know Mark Miller recently made reference to how much he would like to write Superman, Joss Wheldon has said in the he'd like to write the JLA, why won't D.C. make some effort to sign some established talent. At the moment they are WAY to reliant on Geoff Johns, and if he decides to move on then D.C. truly are screwed. Loeb is no loss.
As for the rest of that...
Simone, Morrison, Rucka, Waid and Johns are all still writing for DC.
Waid and Rucka are not exclusive, but Waid is still writing Brave and the Bold and Rucka is writing one of the Final Crisis tie ins, and just finished his Crime Bible and I'm sure plans to work on more books.
Morrison also plans to keep on writing his other titles as well, he mentioned staying on ASSuperman well beyond what was supposed to originally be a 12 issue run, same for Frank Miller/Jim Lee on All Star Batman.

So basically you're just complaining about losing Loeb.

Because DC sucks. You can keep Mark Waid from what ive seen of his writing he sux.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Because DC sucks. You can keep Mark Waid from what ive seen of his writing he sux. lol. He's given a lot of titles some of their best runs. He's one of the most prolific writers in comic history.

Originally posted by Juntai
lol. He's given a lot of titles some of their best runs. He's one of the most prolific writers in comic history.

Ok but his writing on Captain America was.....terrible. His writing on Valor kinda sucked and when he stopped writing the series got better.

I don't know whos idea it was to create the blasters but those characters were dumb.....I mean a guy that turns his torso into a mirror..... baka

Maybe he was having a bad day. Ive probably read other stories written by him but I cant remember but Valor and Cap were so bad I had to see who the writer was.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but his writing on Captain America was.....terrible. His writing on Valor kinda sucked and when he stopped writing the series got better.

I don't know whos idea it was to create the blasters but those characters were dumb.....I mean a guy that turns his torso into a mirror..... baka

Maybe he was having a bad day. Ive probably read other stories written by him but I cant remember but Valor and Cap were so bad I had to see who the writer was. Not every issue is the best ever.... but..he teamed up with Grant Morrison to co-write probably the best JLA run ever. He wrote Kingdom and Kingdom Come, he wrote Flash for 8 years, Waid co-wrote 52. He's wrote most issues of legion in the 90's and this decade. Superman Birthright. He was one of the biggest creators of Crossgen comics, and wrote Crux Sigil and Ruse, some of it's best titles.

Originally posted by Juntai
Not every issue is the best ever.... but..he teamed up with Grant Morrison to co-write probably the best JLA run ever. He wrote Kingdom and Kingdom Come, he wrote Flash for 8 years, Waid co-wrote 52. He's wrote most issues of legion in the 90's and this decade. Superman Birthright. He was one of the biggest creators of Crossgen comics, and wrote Crux Sigil and Ruse, some of it's best titles.

Well i'll have to read those issues but quite frankly some of the characters and stuff DC come up with can be quite goofy.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well i'll have to read those issues but quite frankly some of the characters and stuff DC come up with can be quite goofy. It's true for both companies, and comics in general.

Originally posted by Juntai
Loeb is no loss.
As for the rest of that...
Simone, Morrison, Rucka, Waid and Johns are all still writing for DC.
Waid and Rucka are not exclusive, but Waid is still writing Brave and the Bold and Rucka is writing one of the Final Crisis tie ins, and just finished his Crime Bible and I'm sure plans to work on more books.
Morrison also plans to keep on writing his other titles as well, he mentioned staying on ASSuperman well beyond what was supposed to originally be a 12 issue run, same for Frank Miller/Jim Lee on All Star Batman.

So basically you're just complaining about losing Loeb.

Wrong, Wrong Wrong.

Not well beyond issue 12, he said he'd like to do a one shot

Waid is doing a couple more issues of Brave and the Bold before JMS takes over .... Yeah the guy who wrote that 'Classic' Spiderman tale; One more day.

Rucka has basically said that the company pisses him off, and therefore intends to do less for them.

And Jeph Loeb wrote some of the F*cking greatest D.C. stories there has ever been, so yes he is a loss !

Originally posted by Juntai
It's true for both companies, and comics in general.


Not every comic company has Krypto the superdog or Hootie the superowl but yes Marvel has some goofy characters but DC gets first prize.

Anyway I am starting to have more respect for DC. My opinion of them was not as bad as it used to be, ie use DC comics for fuel.

Originally posted by Juntai
Not every issue is the best ever.... but..he teamed up with Grant Morrison to co-write probably the best JLA run ever. He wrote Kingdom and Kingdom Come, he wrote Flash for 8 years, Waid co-wrote 52. He's wrote most issues of legion in the 90's and this decade. Superman Birthright. He was one of the biggest creators of Crossgen comics, and wrote Crux Sigil and Ruse, some of it's best titles.

Not to mention the best FF4 run since John Bryne.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well i'll have to read those issues but quite frankly some of the characters and stuff DC come up with can be quite goofy.

What the **** ? .... Your basically making Judgements having not read some of the greatest stories ever created by D.C.

Its like saying Spielberg sucks, when you haven't watched Indiana Jones, E.T., Jurassic Park, Schindler's List etc.

Originally posted by jumpmann
Variance.

Well thank you for that amazing contribution !

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
What the **** ? .... Your basically making Judgements having not read some of the greatest stories ever created by D.C.

Its like saying Spielberg sucks, when you haven't watched Indiana Jones, E.T., Jurassic Park, Schindler's List etc.

Yes but in all fairness its not just about stories but appearance of characters are important to. Ive been reading comics for YEARS and there is a reason why I got into Marvel and not DC when I read stories with characters that have bright red skin, slick back hair and a pink suit or talking Gorillas it puts me off because no matter how good the stories are the dumbness of the characters puts me off reading it. Im not saying design of characters is the most important thing but if they look really bad its off putting.

Sometimes when im reading DC comics I have to supsend my judgement for example I enjoyed SBps fights with the superheroes but when Superdog came along I was like "....uhhhhh."

Im aware that I need to keep an open mind and do like some DC comics but like im saying certain things put me off. However I intend to read some DC comics in the future.

P.S. When I said DC sucked I was kinda joking, but yeah some of their characters piss me off

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not every comic company has Krypto the superdog or Hootie the superowl but yes Marvel has some goofy characters but DC gets first prize.

Anyway I am starting to have more respect for DC. My opinion of them was not as bad as it used to be, ie use DC comics for fuel. I believe Sentry has a Superdog.

Lets not get into Peter Porker, Spider-Ham having an ongoing series for a year and a half.


Most comic companies have all sorts of stupid stuff going on.

Originally posted by Juntai
I believe Sentry has a Superdog.

Lets not get into Peter Porker, Spider-Ham having an ongoing series for a year and a half.


Most comic companies have all sorts of stupid stuff going on.

Spider Ham is not canon. Anwyay unfortunately sometimes DC affects Marvel with its wackness sometimes anyway I mentioned other things apart from Krypto. In all honesty though there is no point in arguing because when it comes down to it its subjective.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes but in all fairness its not just about stories but appearance of characters are important to. Ive been reading comics for YEARS and there is a reason why I got into Marvel and not DC when I read stories with characters that have bright red skin, slick back hair and a pink suit or talking Gorillas it puts me off because no matter how good the stories are the dumbness of the characters puts me off reading it. Im not saying design of characters is the most important thing but if they look really bad its off putting.


Don't think you mean characterisation, I think you mean appearance ?

Your entitled to your opinion though. I would have said you where wrong about a year ago, but I prefer the matrix sophisticated look to Nostalgia. Mind you, I can't stand Marvels obsession with edgy 'realism'. The fact is they try so hard to make characters realistic, they miss the mark completely. Also edgy characterisation, doesn't work very well when you try and incorporate into an escapist story telling, such as the Mighty Avengers. The only person whose who always succeeds at utilizing gritty realism is Warren Ellis. Read his Wild-storm comics, he really does find a equilibrium between escapism and gritty realism. The others writers at Marvel, such as Bendis, Brubaker and Wheeldon can nail edgy characterisation, but when it comes to fantastical escapism, you are usually left disappointed. However it can go the other way. For example, I think Mark Miller is a D.C. writer, at the wrong company. He loves to go for the big blockbuster action sequences, with uber mind 'f*cking' themes, but tends to sacrifice consistent characterisation in the process. While trying to appeal to the 'badass' moment, characters end up performing actions totally out of character.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Well thank you for that amazing contribution !
Marvel has most of its A list writers under exclusive contracts. Eventually they'll run out and some might switch companies. Who's to say in 3 years from now DC won't have Bendis, Millar, Brubaker exclusive? WHAT IF MARVEL LOSES THOSE THREE IN THE NEXT 8 MONTHS? They'll be screwed too! JMS is writing for DC now omgawds. New thread.

Like I said, variance. Insert 20 links to definition of variance.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY&feature=related

The insults, swearing, and sarcasm have to stop, CD. Keep it respectful or you'll receive an official warning.

If writers are upset at DC, blame it on Dan Didio and Superboy Prime 'punching reality', cancelling out years & years of continuity.

Things go in cycles. Jim Shooter's heavy act during the 1980's drove a lot of talent from Marvel to DC. Joe Quesada by comparison seems Mr. Personable and knows how to woo good talent. Apparently though, he's not in favour of exclusive contracts, despite the number they have at Marvel.

interesting tidbit i learned today about a difference between marvel and DC. DC offers their writers "the list," which has every comic and trade and hardback coming out that month, and lets them pick which titles they want to have. they used to be able to get thirty copies of each, but apparently it's now down to ten because people were being shady with their copies. anyway, at the end of the month, each writer gets whatever issues they requested for free. ten to thirty copies of each. free.

marvel doesn't do anything like that. marvel's writers have to go out and buy their own copies of titles. bendis even said that he was missing one issue of mighty avengers, which he wrote, because he couldn't get it at a normal comic shop. he never got to see the final copy.


i don't think it's entirely relevant to the discussion, but it is interesting to see the writer appreciation DC shows that marvel doesn't.

Marvel has stronger sales. I don't know why they wouldn't give some free issues to creators.

This might be just perception. Some contracts have expired and creators are moving around; switching between the big two companies could be a way of getting refreshed.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The insults, swearing, and sarcasm have to stop, CD. Keep it respectful or you'll receive an official warning.

They aren't swear words, they are missed spelt words.

You can't stop me from being sarcastic, as there are no rules against it .

And i haven't insulted anybody.

You loose, go Police some elses thoughts you Cognitive Nazi.

You totally lost the chance to make a 1984 reference there.

Originally posted by Bentley
You totally lost the chance to make a 1984 reference there.

Yeah your right .... Dammit

I'm borrowing 1984 from a friend, gonna start reading on Saturday. Is it good? :O

Originally posted by llagrok
I'm borrowing 1984 from a friend, gonna start reading on Saturday. Is it good? :O

In all honesty i haven't read it, but I love Animal Farm.

George Orwell Rules !

loeb, im sad to say, has been pretty crap since his son died... not that i can blame him or anything, but him leaving dc is no loss imo... look what he's done at marvel...

Originally posted by llagrok
I'm borrowing 1984 from a friend, gonna start reading on Saturday. Is it good? :O

The concept its very deep, its a bit depressing to be honest, but a good book nonetheless.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's true for both companies, and comics in general.

Just out of interest though do you know any major marvel supervillains that look as stupid as Sinestro? Im talking top tier villains you Doom, Thanos etc.

Sinistro doesn't look stupid.

Classic Doctor Zemo seemed very stupid to me.

Originally posted by Bentley
Sinistro doesn't look stupid.

Classic Doctor Zemo seemed very stupid to me.

Current Villains please. That doesnt look stupid? He looks like Dick Dasterdly...hell he even had a pink outfit once.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Current Villains please. That doesnt look stupid? He looks like Dick Dasterdly...hell he even had a pink outfit once. http://dccomics.com/media/desktop_patterns/Green_Lantern_Sinestro_Corps_Special_1280x1024.jpg

Much more Hitler than Dick Dasterdly.

Originally posted by Juntai
http://dccomics.com/media/desktop_patterns/Green_Lantern_Sinestro_Corps_Special_1280x1024.jpg

Much more Hitler than Dick Dasterdly.

In all fairness some of his drawings he doesnt look that bad, I just cant get over the first time I saw him and some guy tried to convince me he was hardcore. Yeah I am being a bit hard in the Sinestro Wars he looked ok.

Originally posted by Raoul
loeb, im sad to say, has been pretty crap since his son died... not that i can blame him or anything, but him leaving dc is no loss imo... look what he's done at marvel...

Loeb's been putting out a lot of crappage, sure, but his Hulk run seems to be shaping into something good.

Darwyn Cooke is still with DC.

No worries.

Even though Loeb has been pumping out bad comics ie. Ultimates III they sure are selling very well regardless.

As long as they keep Grant Morrison around, they're good in my book.

And hey, at least DC didn't let Bendis write their big event.

I personally like what bendis has been doing.

morrison aight.............

Originally posted by Bentley
Sinistro doesn't look stupid.

Classic Doctor Zemo seemed very stupid to me.

current zemo hasn't really changed that much.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I saw him and some guy tried to convince me he was hardcore.

and then you realized that no matter the company, they're all just grown men in brightly colored circus outfits...amIrite?

Sinestro is a great villain, if you can't get past the DUR HUR he's PURPLE, well sucks for you.

Originally posted by roughrider
Loeb's been putting out a lot of crappage, sure, but his Hulk run seems to be shaping into something good.

i dunno, maybe if i read it again ill like it more...

Originally posted by -K-M-
Even though Loeb has been pumping out bad comics ie. Ultimates III they sure are selling very well regardless.

still shit, though, ultimates...

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
As long as they keep Grant Morrison around, they're good in my book.

And hey, at least DC didn't let Bendis write their big event.

we had this same conversation yesterday... uhuh

and i personally think sinestro in his sin corps get up is pretty badass...

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
As long as they keep Grant Morrison around, they're good in my book.

And hey, at least DC didn't let Bendis write their big event.

He's only going to be doing Batman after the Crisis. He said he wanted a break from mainstream comics.