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how far does hulk get if the Illuminati were prepared to kill the hulk and no concern for the amount of casualties.?
no bfr

1.black bolt
2.iron man w/spin tech
3.xavier and juggernaut
4.dr strange
5.reed/ff4 with prep
6.sentry

At which point of WWH is he? Why is Blackbolt that low?

Originally posted by Bentley
At which point of WWH is he? Why is Blackbolt that low?
how he started out.

black is the first person he faced upon returning to earth.

Unless he bfr'd Juggernaut like in the comic he stops at 3

Removing PIS and using your stipulation, he stops at 1.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Removing PIS and using your stipulation, he stops at 1.

Ah, you beat me to it.

4/6, Strange was after FF, iirc.

Zom/Strange was much more powerful than Sentry, always thought that was a poor choice for the final conflict.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Removing PIS and using your stipulation, he stops at 1.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Ah, you beat me to it.

I wish some people on this forum would stop screaming PIS.

Where's the Gamma Corps? They did the best against Hulk overall, imo.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I wish some people on this forum would stop screaming PIS.

While I agree with you, it is nigh impossible to ignore certain instances. For example, from the little scuffle we see between the two, Blackbolt did very little to stop Hulk. And for that he got his ass handed to him. We've seen what BB can do with even a small percentage of his power. So, in these cases, we've got to keep these things in mind.

Back on topic: Blackbolt would take Hulk down.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
While I agree with you, it is nigh impossible to ignore certain instances. For example, from the little scuffle we see between the two, Blackbolt did very little to stop Hulk. And for that he got his ass handed to him. We've seen what BB can do with even a small percentage of his power. So, in these cases, we've got to keep these things in mind.

Back on topic: Blackbolt would take Hulk down.

That was a skrull BB by the way.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I wish some people on this forum would stop screaming PIS.

When a voice that has done awe-inspiring feats fails to do anything to Hulk, then yes, it's PIS. Hell, even without his voice, BB was enough to give Thor a run for his money.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
When a voice that has done awe-inspiring feats fails to do anything to Hulk, then yes, it's PIS. Hell, even without his voice, BB was enough to give Thor a run for his money.

I dunno man Hulks skin was flayed its not liek ti didnt do anything.

Well, since the writers chose not to show us the fight, we won't know for sure. It seems stupid that a scream couldn't stop Hulk when a whisper was strong enough to make him release his grip and blow him back.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I wish some people on this forum would stop screaming PIS.

I totally agree with this statement.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I wish some people on this forum would stop screaming PIS. Agreed.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Well, since the writers chose not to show us the fight, we won't know for sure. It seems stupid that a scream couldn't stop Hulk when a whisper was strong enough to make him release his grip and blow him back.

Well Hulk can upgrade his strength when he gets angrier. From what I can remember I think his bio stated that his scream would level Attilan, if thats all it can do it aint stoping WWH.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well Hulk can upgrade his strength when he gets angrier. From what I can remember I think his bio stated that his scream would level Attilan, if thats all it can do it aint stoping WWH.

His scream destroyed the indestructible Negative Barrier. He also put down the Avengers with a whisper, and Sentry wouldn't fight him because he knew Black Bolt would use his voice.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That was a skrull BB by the way.

which is still rediculous. Skruss are far more powerful than thier mimmicked counter parts. they can mimmick the powers of FOUR superbeings. Hulk would have gotten his ass handed to him by a skrull.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
His scream destroyed the indestructible Negative Barrier.

Hulk has done stuff like that with his strength....and?

Originally posted by celestialdemon

He also put down the Avengers with a whisper, and Sentry wouldn't fight him because he knew Black Bolt would use his voice.

So what?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hulk has done stuff like that with his strength....and?

Hulk destroyed the Negative Barrier? When?



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So what?

So his whisper can put down the Avengers but his scream can't stop Hulk? I suppose Black Panther restraining Surfer with an armbar wasn't PIS either.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Hulk destroyed the Negative Barrier? When?


Hes destroyed stuff that supposed to be indestructible.....


Originally posted by celestialdemon

So his whisper can put down the Avengers but his scream can't stop Hulk?

No it cant because this is the most powerful version of the Hulk. Hell a weaker version of the Hulk destroyed an asteroid twice the size of earth.

Originally posted by celestialdemon

I suppose Black Panther restraining Surfer with an armbar wasn't PIS either.

Gimme a break why the hell are you comparing BP to the most powerful version of the Hulk......sheeeeshhh!

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hes destroyed stuff that supposed to be indestructible.....

No it cant because this is the most powerful version of the Hulk. Hell a weaker version of the Hulk destroyed an asteroid twice the size of earth.

Gimme a break why the hell are you comparing BP to the most powerful version of the Hulk......sheeeeshhh!

Because it doesn't matter how powerful the Hulk is, he's still a being of just strength. That's it. What would stop Black Bolt from flying up in the air and constantly unleashing his voice down on Hulk? The WWH series was dumb because everyone was downplayed to make him look good. Sentry let Hulk hit on him. Dr. Strange allowed Hulk to live. Black Bolt's scream didn't do jack. Ghost Rider backed off claiming Hulk was innocent. What a joke.

If I remember correctly blackbolt has beaten the hulk on three separate occasions.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Because it doesn't matter how powerful the Hulk is, he's still a being of just strength. That's it.

WRONG! Hulk can resist non-physical attacks and can see invisilbe and astral beings as well.

Originally posted by celestialdemon

What would stop Black Bolt from flying up in the air and constantly unleashing his voice down on Hulk?

Ermm I think the scream drains BB of energy...I could be wrong but I dont think he can unleash indefintely.

Originally posted by celestialdemon

The WWH series was dumb because I don't agree with how it was written.

What I think >>>>> comics


Originally posted by SuperiorTech
If I remember correctly blackbolt has beaten the hulk on three separate occasions.

That was a weaker Hulk.

BB's scream deals with molecules, Hulk's strength, durability, whatever would play no part in it. He'd be turned into a billion tiny green particles and swept away if BB were going for an actual kill.
I do, however disagree that a Skrull version of BB would be more powerful than the original. When captured, the Skrulls didnt understand how BB was able to be so powerful.
And while we are tossing out feats, BB's scream tore a hole in reality. Iron Man, whos seen it all, was shocked.

Originally posted by redhotrash
BB's scream deals with molecules, Hulk's strength, durability, whatever would play no part in it.

Go to the Hulk respect thread and stop talking rubbish.

Originally posted by redhotrash

And while we are tossing out feats, BB's scream tore a hole in reality. Iron Man, whos seen it all, was shocked.

....and Hulk has done similar stuff with his punches...big deal.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
WRONG! Hulk can resist non-physical attacks and can see invisilbe and astral beings as well.

Did I say anything about his resistence? I said he is a being of strength. He has no attack other than physical. And how can Black Bolt's scream not put Hulk down but a satellite laser can?



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ermm I think the scream drains BB of energy...I could be wrong but I dont think he can unleash indefintely.

I've never seen it stated. It may very well, but unless I see it, it's an incorrect assumption. So how would Hulk stop him?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Originally posted by celestialdemon

The WWH series was dumb because I don't agree with how it was written.


What I think >>>>> comics .

I didn't like the Onslaught saga either, but I had no problem with Hulk breaking Onslaught's armor. Maybe you should try thinking before you put words in someone's mouth.

Oh, all that said, looking at the gauntlet, I think the fights WWH would have the best shot at winning would be...
2.Iron Man :Hard to tell what tech Tony would bring to the table, but still its a variable which gives Hulk a good chance.
5. Reed: wasnt stated how much prep Reed gets, but Hulk could possibly overcome it all.
6. Sentry: On paper Sentry should win, but hes just such a increadible pansy in comics I'd give the majority to the Hulk.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Go to the Hulk respect thread and stop talking rubbish.



....and Hulk has done similar stuff with his punches...big deal.


And none of this stopped bb from handing him his ass the 2 or 3 times they fought before.You are however willing to believe and off panel fight with a skull bb as evidence he can beat him.

That was the Maestro who could see Astral beings for one.
Secondly, how am I wrong? Its a MOLECULAR ATTACK.
And good point, BB's Scream >>> than a man made laser.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Did I say anything about his resistence? I said he is a being of strength. He has no attack other than physical.

What so BB is immune to physical attacks? Actually his attacks have been shown to do more than be just physical.

Originally posted by celestialdemon

And how can Black Bolt's scream not put Hulk down but a satellite laser can?

From what I understood the satelitte was specifically designed to drop WWH.


Originally posted by celestialdemon


I've never seen it stated. It may very well, but unless I see it, it's an incorrect assumption.

Its also an incorrect assumption to think he could do it indefintely, its his most powerful attack so by default it should make him tired....but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by celestialdemon

So how would Hulk stop him?

WWH walks through his blasts and then KOs him.


Originally posted by celestialdemon




I didn't like the Onslaught saga either, but I had no problem with Hulk breaking Onslaught's armor. Maybe you should try thinking before you put words in someone's mouth.

You're just screaming PIS.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
And none of this stopped bb from handing him his ass they 2 or 3 times the fought before.You are however willing to believe and off panel fight with a skull bb as evidence he can beat him.


Ok what part of he was a weaker Hulk arent you getting?

Originally posted by redhotrash
That was the Maestro who could see Astral beings for one.
Secondly, how am I wrong? Its a MOLECULAR ATTACK.
And good point, BB's Scream >>> than a man made laser.

Because HUlk has survived attacks that affect his molecules.

This will be the 2nd time Ive done this rant, but here it goes again. WWH was a event that basically serviced the mindless summer blockbuster masses. The type of people who still buy tickets for the Fast and the Furious sequels. Even some marvel writers have expressed their distaste for the event and openly said they wanted it to be over to move on to other arcs. It dumbed down everyone. Examples: Skrull-bolt whispering at Hulk then TURNING HIS BACK and walking away. Dr. Strange fighting him physically rather than using any of the 1,000+ spells he could have used to end that fight. Punkass Sentry forgetting he had other powers aside from being able to punch people. Hell Iron Man, with all his shield resources, put up less of a fight than he did 10 years ago with much more limited tech. So yeah Im going to patiently wait for this entire event to be retconned away.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What so BB is immune to physical attacks? Actually his attacks have been shown to do more than be just physical.

Like what?


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
From what I understood the satelitte was specifically designed to drop WWH.

Then why wasn't it done before Hulk went on his rampage? Why didn't Iron Man just use it before getting his ass kicked?


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its also an incorrect assumption to think he could do it indefintely, its his most powerful attack so by default it should make him tired....but I could be wrong.

Since he's never been shown to be drained after a scream, then my assumption is more likely than yours.


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
WWH walks through his blasts and then KOs him.

WWH can fly now?


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You're just screaming PIS.

When PIS applies.

Originally posted by redhotrash
This will be the 2nd time Ive done this rant, but here it goes again. WWH was a event that basically serviced the mindless summer blockbuster masses. The type of people who still buy tickets for the Fast and the Furious sequels. Even some marvel writers have expressed their distaste for the event and openly said they wanted it to be over to move on to other arcs. It dumbed down everyone. Examples: Skrull-bolt whispering at Hulk then TURNING HIS BACK and walking away. Dr. Strange fighting him physically rather than using any of the 1,000+ spells he could have used to end that fight. Punkass Sentry forgetting he had other powers aside from being able to punch people. Hell Iron Man, with all his shield resources, put up less of a fight than he did 10 years ago with much more limited tech. So yeah Im going to patiently wait for this entire event to be retconned away.

Well for startes Dr Strange used mind control on two other ocassions so I dont know what you're maoning about.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Then why wasn't it done before Hulk went on his rampage? Why didn't Iron Man just use it before getting his ass kicked?
because it was still not quite ready and, more importantly, because it required the kind of opening that WWH would not provide. Stark only managed to train the satellites on Hulk because Hulk asked - begged - Stark to help him stop himself (which is why it worked at all).

Mind control.... lol. This is the guy whos stood up to Mephisto, Dorammu, and Shuma Gorath. To say "mind control" is all he couldve come up with is amusing. Maybe you should be the one checking out the respect threads. Dr. Strange couldve ended this entire event from his living room while wearing his bathrobe and fuzzy slippers.

in this setup he stops at 2,iron man uses the satellite straight away and uses the spintech as well.seeing as in this situation it wont have been tampered with.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Mind control.... lol. This is the guy whos stood up to Mephisto, Dorammu, and Shuma Gorath. To say "mind control" is all he couldve come up with is amusing. Maybe you should be the one checking out the respect threads. Dr. Strange couldve ended this entire event from his living room while wearing his bathrobe and fuzzy slippers.

Hey you know the madder hulk gets the more resistant to magic he becomes.

Originally posted by Nihilist
in this setup he stops at 2,iron man uses the satellite straight away and uses the spintech as well.seeing as in this situation it wont have been tampered with.
they still require that Hulk stand still and wait for it. no way are they hitting Hulk if he's actually not cooperating.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Hey you know the madder hulk gets the more resistant the magic he becomes.
sarcasm aside, he actually does become more resistant to magic.
Goom or whatever, minaturised Savage Hulk but Hulk just shook it off.

Originally posted by janus77
they still require that Hulk stand still and wait for it. no way are they hitting Hulk if he's actually not cooperating.
stark temporarily stops him with the spintech.

Dr. Strange is the world's most powerful magician, he cant snap his fingers and send Hulk into Mephisto's realm or a dozen other places? How do you shrug off a teleportation?

Originally posted by janus77
because it was still not quite ready and, more importantly, because it required the kind of opening that WWH would not provide. Stark only managed to train the satellites on Hulk because Hulk asked - begged - Stark to help him stop himself (which is why it worked at all).

Hulk's power was out of control. He was still releasing more power than he ever had even when he was restraining himself. If the laser didn't have the power to stop him when he was weaker, it shouldn't have stopped him when he was uncontrollably stronger.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ermm I think the scream drains BB of energy...I could be wrong but I dont think he can unleash indefintely. 1. Black Bolt didn't scream.

2. The Skrull wasn't more powerful than Black Bolt. Or, at the very least, using only Blackagar's powers, he was < Black Bolt. The real Black Bolt has a 4-0 (iirc) record vs. Hulk, and a history of using his entire power set, not just his voice.

Side note, to bring Phantom Zone up to date:

Black Bolt has other powers.

3. Black Bolt's voice uses energy, but most certainly doesn't drain him. Not in the slightest. He's performed feats far greater than anything demonstrated vs. WWH, and wasn't drained.

4. Black Bolt, to the best of my knowledge, has NEVER screamed, in continuity.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Dr. Strange is the world's most powerful magician, he cant snap his fingers and send Hulk into Mephisto's realm or a dozen other places? How do you shrug off a teleportation?
he can - and has - return from dimensional banishment, and certainly, in some dimensions - for example, Nightmare's dimension - you can expect the god of that dimension to return Hulk (especially considering how Hulk ripped Nightmare's head off, the last time they crossed paths).

still, that's a reach, and I accept that, what i'm saying is that Hulk has actually shown resistance to magic, that it is something within the bounds of his powers, that is all.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Hulk's power was out of control. He was still releasing more power than he ever had even when he was restraining himself. If the laser didn't have the power to stop him when he was weaker, it shouldn't have stopped him when he was uncontrollably stronger.
it's all in how you choose to interpret what's shown. as far as I can see, without doubt Hulk wanted to be stopped, was standing in the beam and letting it hit him, was fighting to retain control over himself, all of which gives you quite a strong argument that Hulk was helping the satellites knock him out.

Hulk's power was not - objectively - out of control, it was on the way to going out of control. Hulk was standing still and was clearly attempting to fight back the rage... which is something that wouldn't be the case if his powers were totally out of control.

Originally posted by janus77
it's all in how you choose to interpret what's shown. as far as I can see, without doubt Hulk wanted to be stopped, was standing in the beam and letting it hit him, was fighting to retain control over himself, all of which gives you quite a strong argument that Hulk was helping the satellites knock him out.

Hulk's power was not - objectively - out of control, it was on the way to going out of control. Hulk was standing still and was clearly attempting to fight back the rage... which is something that wouldn't be the case if his powers were totally out of control.

I do agree that that's probably something open to interpretation. In my opinion, if his power was at an all-time high where not even he could fully control it, then a laser shouldn't have the power to stop him regardless of whether he was holding back or not.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
4. Black Bolt, to the best of my knowledge, has NEVER screamed, in continuity. Didn't BB scream during Illuminati, when he tore a hole through the fabric of reality? Or did he just 'speak' in that instance as well?

At least Janus is looking at this intelligently, though I may disagree with some of his points. For instance I think Mephisto would love having the Hulk in his own dimension where he could finally deal with him using the full range of his powers.
I actually like this thread for one reason... Hulk fanboys can argue that Hulk takes a few wins against BB, which isnt completely out of the question. Granted BB should take 9/10, it wouldnt be shocking for a fluke win. However they quickly lose any credibility when matching him against Dr. Strange, who without extreme CIS (as recently seen) should take Hulk 100/100.

Originally posted by Galan007
Didn't BB scream during Illuminati, when he tore a hole through the fabric of reality? Or did he just 'speak' in that instance as well? http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newavengersilluminati00ol6.jpg

"Black Bolt... Speak."

Regardless, I wouldn't label it a scream... even if we have to resort to analyzing the artist's interpretation...

srug

Originally posted by redhotrash
Mind control.... lol. This is the guy whos stood up to Mephisto, Dorammu, and Shuma Gorath. To say "mind control" is all he couldve come up with is amusing. Maybe you should be the one checking out the respect threads. Dr. Strange couldve ended this entire event from his living room while wearing his bathrobe and fuzzy slippers.

First of all, it wasn't PIS that strange lost.
I am a huge HULK FAN, but the Hulk didn't win the fight either.

IMO, no one won the fight.

Strange was more or less trying to "reason" with the Hulk while in Banner's mind.

Banner turned into the hulk and broke his hands without strange expecting it.

For example, if me and you are good friends, but I am stronger than you.

I probably would try to reason with you first, before I went into a fight with you, because we are friends.

Strange didn't want to hurt banner in the first place.
So the story made perfect sense, because lets just say the Hulk pulled a fast one on Strange.

But it's not PIS at all, it's a very plausable storyline IMO.

As for Black Bolt losing to the Hulk.

The biggest thing that the WWH has going for him Vs blackbolt is his healing and durability factor.

IMO, this is what makes Thanos so tough to beat.
It's too darn hard to hurt him in the first place.

The Sentry was hitting WWH as hard as he can pretty much.
He was just that darn tough to hurt.

As for resisting against Bolts other powers.
The Hulk has resisted against the High Evolutionary powers also.

It's not PIS with the HULK IMO.
That's the whole point of the Hulk IMO.

He is suppose to be the guy that can pull off the impossible.

Some people just doesn't want to accept this, and they see him as a guy who can just punch stuff.

Your Dr. Strange explanation works only to a point. When trying to manipulate Hulk's mind, then yeah Strange was more or less trying to reason with him friend to friend. When Strange went through all the trouble of actually preparing the Zom bonding and what not, he knew he was preparing for a fight, and if written by a respectable writer who isnt catering to the "National Tresure" or "Indiana Jones" crowd, he'd have brought a lot more to the table than some cornball plan to physically match a guy whos main power is strength. Why even bother leaving the house when you can defeat the guy from your bedroom using a frigging oujia board and some tarot cards.
As for the Blackbolt thing, durablity shouldnt even play a part in this. Adamantium is unbreakable, but Magneto can bend it to his will. This should also hold true for BB's voice, which manipulated molecules. It shouldnt matter how powerful and durable he is or how quickly he heals if the very fabric of his being is pulled apart.

Originally posted by redhotrash
At least Janus is looking at this intelligently, though I may disagree with some of his points. For instance I think Mephisto would love having the Hulk in his own dimension where he could finally deal with him using the full range of his powers.
I actually like this thread for one reason... Hulk fanboys can argue that Hulk takes a few wins against BB, which isnt completely out of the question. Granted BB should take 9/10, it wouldnt be shocking for a fluke win. However they quickly lose any credibility when matching him against Dr. Strange, who without extreme CIS (as recently seen) should take Hulk 100/100.

What the hell do you mean? For starters you simply dont know tha characters well enough. Lets look at this for example.


Originally posted by redhotrash
That was the Maestro who could see Astral beings for one.
Secondly, how am I wrong? Its a MOLECULAR ATTACK.
And good point, BB's Scream >>> than a man made laser.

WRONG. Savage Hulk can see Astral beings and Hulk has survived molecular attacks. I dont know before you decide to judge people maybe you should know what the hell you are talking about as well.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Your Dr. Strange explanation works only to a point. When trying to manipulate Hulk's mind, then yeah Strange was more or less trying to reason with him friend to friend.

Yes then after that he tried mind-control. So its not like he just decided to get into a slugfest without trying anything else.

Originally posted by redhotrash

When Strange went through all the trouble of actually preparing the Zom bonding and what not, he knew he was preparing for a fight, and if written by a respectable writer who isnt catering to the "National Tresure" or "Indiana Jones" crowd, he'd have brought a lot more to the table than some cornball plan to physically match a guy whos main power is strength. Why even bother leaving the house when you can defeat the guy from your bedroom using a frigging oujia board and some tarot cards.

Maybe because he had already tried two other methods. Yeah it was such a rubbish plan it was working.

Originally posted by redhotrash

As for the Blackbolt thing, durablity shouldnt even play a part in this. Adamantium is unbreakable, but Magneto can bend it to his will. This should also hold true for BB's voice, which manipulated molecules. It shouldnt matter how powerful and durable he is or how quickly he heals if the very fabric of his being is pulled apart.

and I already told you Hulk has survived matter manipulation on many ocassions.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
1. Black Bolt didn't scream.

I think thats open to intepretation it most likely was more powerful than a whisper.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

2. The Skrull wasn't more powerful than Black Bolt. Or, at the very least, using only Blackagar's powers, he was < Black Bolt. The real Black Bolt has a 4-0 (iirc) record vs. Hulk, and a history of using his entire power set, not just his voice.

I dont think you can prove that he was less powerful. He has a history of using his whole powerset, yeah if you're looking at his whole history sometimes all he does is use his strength and flight.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

Side note, to bring Phantom Zone up to date:

Black Bolt has other powers.

Ive been reading marvel comics serioulsy since 1986 of course I know he has other powers. Thats not up to date thats history.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

3. Black Bolt's voice uses energy, but most certainly doesn't drain him. Not in the slightest. He's performed feats far greater than anything demonstrated vs. WWH, and wasn't drained.

Like?

stops at 3.
hulk aint beating juggs without bfr

Hulk fanboys are the best. Better than Wolverine fanboys even.
So tell me about these molecular attacks hes survived. Give a few example. Closest thing that comes to mind is when he was shrunk by the High Evolutionary, which Im sorry but thats not even remotely similiar to BB yelling at you. And still you arent seeing the lagic gap in the Dr. Strange fight. If you are very versatile, and the other guy's main power is strength, are you going to forget everything else at your disposal and try to match him at his own game? Especially when that means risking your own life by channeling a potentially world destroying demon. Or do you use one of the other hundred ways Dr. Strange couldve won that fight, without having to get his hands dirty. The whole arc was stupid, simple as that.
Want yet ANOTHER example, take the Juggernaut fight. He moves, Juggernaut runs in a lake... and is apparently out of the fight? He couldnt, I dunno, stop, turn around, and jump out? Bad enough one of the most powerful telepaths in the marvel universe decides to basically let the big green A-hole beat up with students while hardly making an effort to stop him. And before you go on about "ZOMG Hulk has TP resistance", lets be serious. If Xavier were to go all out on Hulk, he'd shut him down.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think thats open to intepretation it most likely was more powerful than a whisper. More powerful than a whisper? Certainly.

But Black Bolt never screams... ever.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont think you can prove that he was less powerful. He has a history of using his whole powerset, yeah if you're looking at his whole history sometimes all he does is use his strength and flight. When does he only use strength and flight...?


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ive been reading marvel comics serioulsy since 1986 of course I know he has other powers. Thats not up to date thats history. I seriously doubt you could reference much more than strength, flight and the voice, without putting in research or at least a KMC post search.

And the voice really shouldn't have to play a part in this.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Like? Destroying the negative barrier.
Knocking Gladiator out.
Being channeled into a direct power feed to overload Doom with a Watcher's powers.

Etc.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
More powerful than a whisper? Certainly.

But Black Bolt never screams... ever.

Prove it.


Originally posted by Zeitgeist

When does he only use strength and flight...?

Well for starters when he was using strength and flight against Thing.


Originally posted by Zeitgeist

I seriously doubt you could reference much more than strength, flight and the voice, without putting in research or at least a KMC post search.

Yeah really, im not sure if your aware of this but theres this series called Marvel Universe that came out in the 80s.........I know he can manipulate energy as well for example he was able to extinguish Johnny flames. He also uses the fork on his head to channel energy.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

And the voice really shouldn't have to play a part in this.

If you say so. To be quite honest im just arguing that WWH could take BBs scream dont really care about anything else.


Originally posted by Zeitgeist

Destroying the negative barrier.
Knocking Gladiator out.
Being channeled into a direct power feed to overload Doom with a Watcher's powers.

Etc.

Well I dont know what you're talking about concerning Gladiator but all I saw was him whispering into into his ear and Koing him which is not actually greater than what he did in WWH.

Anyway Hulk has punched thorugh a time storm and broken indestructible items.

.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Your Dr. Strange explanation works only to a point. When trying to manipulate Hulk's mind, then yeah Strange was more or less trying to reason with him friend to friend. When Strange went through all the trouble of actually preparing the Zom bonding and what not, he knew he was preparing for a fight, and if written by a respectable writer who isnt catering to the "National Tresure" or "Indiana Jones" crowd, he'd have brought a lot more to the table than some cornball plan to physically match a guy whos main power is strength. Why even bother leaving the house when you can defeat the guy from your bedroom using a frigging oujia board and some tarot cards.
As for the Blackbolt thing, durablity shouldnt even play a part in this. Adamantium is unbreakable, but Magneto can bend it to his will. This should also hold true for BB's voice, which manipulated molecules. It shouldnt matter how powerful and durable he is or how quickly he heals if the very fabric of his being is pulled apart.

durablity is a huge part of it, why do you think that Thanos is hard to beat. Yes he is smart also, but it is really tough to hurt him in the first place. WWH beating black bolt isn't PIS at all.

If this is suppose to be the strongest version of the hulk, than having him losing to Black Bolt would be PIS, and Marvel should just get rid of the Hulk and not write about him again if his strongest version can't be black bolt. There is no point to even write a story for him.

I understand your points about what you are saying for Strange, but if you think about it using your logic.

Than Strange really couldn't be in too many storylines in the first place.
He could just win the match on one page, and the storyline would be over.

They had to write something to keep the storyline going, instead of thinking too logically about what Strange "Should" have done.

If that's the case, there are so many characters that could snap their fingers and end the storyline.

That would suck and be boring.

Since the Hulk is a physical being, then that is what you have to center around to keep the story going.

IMO, I would have left Strange out of the fighting scenes and had him more of an adviser/stratagist.

Just My Opinion

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Prove it. He refused to speak when faced with the destruction of his entire race and enslavement.

Yet he's going to destroy the moon with a scream?

It was stated that he would have destroyed the planet that they were standing on if he had openly spoken even a syllable when the Inhumans faced the Shi-ar.

But he's going to scream on the moon? And "knock off" something the size of "Rhode Island"?

HA.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well for starters when he was using strength and flight against Thing. In one of his very first appearances...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah really, im not sure if your aware of this but theres this series called Marvel Universe that came out in the 80s.........I know he can manipulate energy as well for example he was able to extinguish Johnny flames. He also uses the fork on his head to channel energy. He's also able to manipulate matter, create GL-like constructs, remove a person's thought process, amp his stats to the uber levels... etc.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If you say so. To be quite honest im just arguing that WWH could take BBs scream dont really care about anything else. Well, he couldn't. Blackagar's whispers have caused volcanoes and earthquakes on the other side of the planet...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well I dont know what you're talking about concerning Gladiator but all I saw was him whispering into into his ear and Koing him which is not actually greater than what he did in WWH. I was referring to the level of feat... KO'ing Gladiator with a whisper is much more impressive than Skrull-Bolt's yell at one of the Illuminati members... knocking them back a couple of feet...

Do you really believe that if Glads gets knocked out with a whisper, WWH's going to easily survive a real, true scream?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Anyway Hulk has punched thorugh a time storm and broken indestructible items. I'm glad that that's relevant.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
He refused to speak when faced with the destruction of his entire race and enslavement.

Yet he's going to destroy the moon with a scream?

It was stated that he would have destroyed the planet that they were standing on if he had openly spoken even a syllable when the Inhumans faced the Shi-ar.

But he's going to scream on the moon? And "knock off" something the size of "Rhode Island"?

HA.

Well thats funny he used what looked like more than a whisper and he was standing right next to Cyclops, he can obvoulsy concentrate the force

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers4.png



Here BB whispers and there are lots of people around and it doesnt do jack to the planet.

http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quicksilver0606jd1.jpg

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

In one of his very first appearances...

He's also able to manipulate matter, create GL-like constructs, remove a person's thought process, amp his stats to the uber levels... etc.

Yeah and? The point is that I know he has other powers.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

Well, he couldn't. Blackagar's whispers have caused volcanoes and earthquakes on the other side of the planet...

Is that your evidence? Serioulsy are you having a laugh? Well for starters a weaker version of the Hulk has survived stuff stronger than that. Wow and you're trying to educate me on characters.


Originally posted by Zeitgeist

I was referring to the level of feat... KO'ing Gladiator with a whisper is much more impressive than Skrull-Bolt's yell at one of the Illuminati members... knocking them back a couple of feet...

.....oh.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

Do you really believe that if Glads gets knocked out with a whisper, WWH's going to easily survive a real, true scream?

Well for starters BB whispered in his ear. Hell Apocalypse survived what looked like more than a whisper anyway.

If all a whisper is going to do is create earthquakes on the other side of the plant then yes, because a waker version of the Hulk has survived much more force.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist


I'm glad that that's relevant.

Er the point is that a weaker version of the Hulk has done similar stuff that BB has done with his voice via strength?

no way does BlackBolt have the raw power necessary to KO WWH/King Hulk.

simply put, the planet would be dust but King Hulk would be alright, prolly more pissed off and BB would be dead. no other result possible.

Sakaar was nearly totalled by an warpcore breach, Hulk survived unscathed. seriously powerful beings, Caira - the "Old Strong" - died, but Hulk was unscathed.

He would stop at Strange.

Strange have hold back before Hulk bruise his hands.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well thats funny he used what looked like more than a whisper and he was standing right next to Cyclops, he can obvoulsy concentrate the force



Here BB whispers and there are lots of people around and it doesnt do jack to the planet.

http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quicksilver0606jd1.jpg


Black Bolt's stray whisper has completely annihilated Attilan. He had to speak into the ground on another occasion to avoid damaging those around him. He's usually shown with some control over the direction of his voice... but being able to channel anything more than a whisper in a straight line? Nein.

I've seen the Apocalypse scan before, but it was most likely written by an author with no knowledge of how Blackagar's powers work.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah and? The point is that I know he has other powers.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Is that your evidence? Serioulsy are you having a laugh? Well for starters a weaker version of the Hulk has survived stuff stronger than that. Wow and you're trying to educate me on characters. Let me repeat with emphasis.

Black Bolt inaudible syllables have caused planet-wide disasters.

They've powered a machine capable of tearing holes in reality through every single dimension in the 616 universe.

They've been channeled to overpower someone with the powers of a WATCHER.

They've KO'd Gladiator.

They've KO'd Hulk.

All WHISPERS or SYLLABLES.


I want you to work through this with me.

Whisper the word "no" so low that someone inches away from you wouldn't hear.

Then blast go scream at full tilt for a good second or two.

Do you think that the difference in power is less than the difference of durability between Gladiator and WWH?

Old school Hulk and current Hulk?


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
.....oh.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well for starters BB whispered in his ear. Hell Apocalypse survived what looked like more than a whisper anyway.

If all a whisper is going to do is create earthquakes on the other side of the plant then yes, because a waker version of the Hulk has survived much more force. Should I start highlighting the word "whisper"?

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Black Bolt's stray whisper has completely annihilated Attilan. He had to speak into the ground on another occasion to avoid damaging those around him. He's usually shown with some control over the direction of his voice... but being able to channel anything more than a whisper in a straight line? Nein.

I've seen the Apocalypse scan before, but it was most likely written by an author with no knowledge of how Blackagar's powers work.



Let me repeat with emphasis.

Black Bolt inaudible syllables have caused planet-wide disasters.

They've powered a machine capable of tearing holes in reality through every single dimension in the 616 universe.

They've been channeled to overpower someone with the powers of a WATCHER.

They've KO'd Gladiator.

They've KO'd Hulk.

All WHISPERS or SYLLABLES.


I want you to work through this with me.

Whisper the word "no" so low that someone inches away from you wouldn't hear.

Then blast go scream at full tilt for a good second or two.

Do you think that the difference in power is less than the difference of durability between Gladiator and WWH?

Old school Hulk and current Hulk?






Should I start highlighting the word "whisper"?

You're wasting my time for 2 reasons:

1. Your are ignoring examples that dont fit your perception of what BB is capable of.

2. A weaker Hulk has feats comparable to the BB feats you have listed.

Please go away and pester somebody else.

Originally posted by SouthSpawn
durablity is a huge part of it, why do you think that Thanos is hard to beat. Yes he is smart also, but it is really tough to hurt him in the first place. WWH beating black bolt isn't PIS at all.

If this is suppose to be the strongest version of the hulk, than having him losing to Black Bolt would be PIS, and Marvel should just get rid of the Hulk and not write about him again if his strongest version can't be black bolt. There is no point to even write a story for him.

I understand your points about what you are saying for Strange, but if you think about it using your logic.

Than Strange really couldn't be in too many storylines in the first place.
He could just win the match on one page, and the storyline would be over.

They had to write something to keep the storyline going, instead of thinking too logically about what Strange "Should" have done.

If that's the case, there are so many characters that could snap their fingers and end the storyline.

That would suck and be boring.

Since the Hulk is a physical being, then that is what you have to center around to keep the story going.

IMO, I would have left Strange out of the fighting scenes and had him more of an adviser/stratagist.

Just My Opinion


Thats why Strange doesnt fight people like Hulk, he fights people like Mephisto and Loki, guys who can do more than just punch you. But you bring up the very point I was making. It would be boring. Instead lets have him play out of character and feed him to the Hulk. It completely craps on a established character, but hey it wouldnt be "Boring". It'd give the mindless hulk fanboys exactly what they want.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Thats why Strange doesnt fight people like Hulk, he fights people like Mephisto and Loki, guys who can do more than just punch you. But you bring up the very point I was making. It would be boring. Instead lets have him play out of character and feed him to the Hulk. It completely craps on a established character, but hey it wouldnt be "Boring". It'd give the mindless hulk fanboys exactly what they want.

Strange tried other methods apart from physical fighting so what the hell are you complaining about?

Are you seriously saying Strange stuck to character that fight? Have you ever read anything with him in it aside from Secret Avengers?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You're wasting my time for 2 reasons:

1. Your are ignoring examples that dont fit your perception of what BB is capable of.

2. A weaker Hulk has feats comparable to the BB feats you have listed.

Please go away and pester somebody else. 1. Like? I justified that the Apocalypse feat doesn't express the norm. And, judging by your response, you know this and have no actual argument.

2. A weaker Hulk has feats compared to a whisper, yes... and my whole last post was trying to get through your thick head that you've been arguing about a scream this entire time, and whether Hulk could survive. So once again, your points are irrelevant.

Ive heard enough nonsense on this thread. People are suggesting that Hulk could survive a planet destroying event, and essentially be floating through space hanging on to a piece of debris.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
1. Like? I justified that the Apocalypse feat doesn't express the norm. And, judging by your response, you know this and have no actual argument.

I posted more than one example I even tried to make that very clear. My other argument was also that BB would have expected Hulk to absorb the impact and thats what happened when BB whispered The Hulk he absorbed the impact of the whisper.

Now considering the fact that BB whispered the Hulk and **** all happened to the moon and WWH took it pretty well its not illogical to think that he screamed.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

2. A weaker Hulk has feats compared to a whisper, yes... and my whole last post was trying to get through your thick head that you've been arguing about a scream this entire time, and whether Hulk could survive. So once again, your points are irrelevant.

Why do you think I mentioned it was a WEAKER version of the Hulk?

Now lets have a look at one of those examples shall we.



Originally posted by Zeitgeist


They've been channeled to overpower someone with the powers of a WATCHER.

Well you know what I think you had better go back and read the feat again because:

1. Reed asks him to shout.
2. Since the being had the power of the Watcher common sense dictates that he used more than a whisper since Hulk has survived a whisper.
3. He would not be able to do it without the machine.
4. There is not a big difference between a scream and a shout

Considering that a weaker version of the Hulk cracked a Celestial armours without assistance and 1 Celestial is more powerful than a Watcher, Hulk has a strength feat comparable to BBs shout. Professor Hulk was considerably more powerful than Savage Hulk and WWH is more powerful than Professor Hulk.


Originally posted by redhotrash
Ive heard enough nonsense on this thread. People are suggesting that Hulk could survive a planet destroying event, and essentially be floating through space hanging on to a piece of debris.

Do you know Hulk has already survived planet destroying forces. Now what? You want to complain about what the Hulk is capable of and you dont even know the character.



Originally posted by redhotrash
Are you seriously saying Strange stuck to character that fight?

Dont put word into mouth. You were complaining that he used only one tactic I pointed out to you he had other methods.

Originally posted by redhotrash

Have you ever read anything with him in it aside from Secret Avengers?

Yes I have Strange Tales, some Dr Strange issues etc.

Really this debate is getting to be just plain freaking ridiculous. Indeed WWH there was some PIS in WWH but trying to say that he should have bin unable to defeat anybody in the series and calling the entire series PIS is simply foolish and shows terrible bias.

IF i was to arrange it in order of difficulty id have change strange and the sentry because strange is definitely more powerful and also move BB up. That being said reagrding the rest of the characters id have to say that WWH can taking anyone on the list barring Dr strange of course. Really the only reason he won was because strange did not fight to his best. Besides that there was not really much PIS in the series.

To start with the black bolt incident, the blackbolt was a skrull first of all and really there was no proof that he screamed. Considering that BB has almost never screamed i consider a big stretch to assume the skrull screamed in that incident. Now to assume that the hulk should not have been able to take the scream really is wrong as it blatantly disregards what the writers of the series tried to do in both palnet hulk and WWH, which was portray hulk at a level much stronger than he has been portrayed in the past. Considering that WWH was the angriest version of hulk weve seen it is obviuos that he would be both stronger and more durable than previous hulks. Him taking the skrull BB whisper is not PIS in anyway as it just shows the improved durability and there were many other displays of this during the saga. Now to divert a little there really is no proof that WWH cannot take the reall BBs whisper. Using the past encounters between hulk and blacbolt is foolish because it also disregards the fact that hulk at this point was far stronger and more durable than in the past. Also some of the other feats he did in the arc show this. For example, in the past the durability gap between the hulk and silver surfer was quite a bit during planet hulk the hulk went through the same blackhole as the silver surfer and actually came out better off. Not to say that because of this one feat he is now more durable but it certainly shows the great increase as his durability was now shown to be compaable to the silver surfers. It is also imperative that we remember that the silver surfer has taken BB whisper before without getting koed. Another example is in the case of the sentry, In the past also the void was able to break all the hulks bones. Howver the hulk showed a great increase in durability during WWH as the sentry who is .void actually exhausted his enrgy reserves without actually koing the hulk. The last example of durability that points to him being able to take ythe whisper is the zom strange incident. Although i certainly dont consider hulk the winner of the fight and also dont believe he could evn win the fight, it is still example of great durability. Dr strange is IMO tied with Silver surfer as being the most powerful top tier.
Using his vast amount of powers he certainly should have taken out the hulk and him having to channel zom in the first place was PIS. Howver the hulk showed impressive durability during the zom strange fight.
Now although we really cant determine EXACTLY how powerful zom strange was, it quite simple to produce a range. Personally i seriously doubt that strange would channel an entity less powerful than him. However the zom entity being more powerful than strange is certified with stranges in ability to control the great amount of power. He certainly would not have had such problems doing so if the entity was less powerful. Further from the severe warnings strange received before channeling the power we can infer that the being was quite a bit more powerful than him. Obviously such a being is certainly above hulk and should be able to defeat him. Zom strange not defeating hulk is certainly PIS but hulks ability to take multiple blasts and hits from him and still keep fighting is not. What is PIS about this fight is strange suddenly begiining to struggle to control the power and thus giving the hulk the opportunity to attack. Also another aspect which is PIS is stranges focus on physically koing the hulk when there are a many other things he could have done. Howver the hulk taking multiple attacks from an amped up stranhge is certainly impressive and shows that his durability is certainly enough to take BBs voice.
I have seen an argument however that talks about BBs voice operating on the molecular level. Evn so the great durability of WWH would certainly play a part in determining his resitance to molecular tampering. This was shown in his fight against the vector who could repel matter and was actually able repel reality. The hulk howwver was able to survive this attack without being koed ( most of his flesh had been flayed off though just like in WWH) and WWH is considerably more powerful and more than that version of hulk. Regardless of its mode of operation the the hulk has the feats to prove that he can take it.

In regards to the rest of the people on the list

1. Sentry; Contrary to what some would beleive there was really no PIS
in this fight at all. Ive heard arguments that sentry did not use his speed but i will explain the major fault in this argument. The problem with such an argument is the fact that the sentry really does not have examples
showing his battle speed which is what would be needed for such a fight. He has shown great flight speed but battle speed wise he is lacking seriously. Therefore hitting the hulk a million times in a second or what not was never actually on th cards. Also considering that the sentry who is known mainly for his large enrgy output was constanly using enrgy attacks against the hulk, it cannot be said that he was not doing his best as he admitted he was going all out and this was proved when his enrgy ran out. With that being said id call an evn split with maybe a slight edge to hulk in a forum fight.

2.FF/prep; This is the fight the varies the most as it depends on the kind of equipment obtained by the FF during their prep time. Knowing the ability of reed, i dont doubt that with prep he could take out the hulk. Howwver going by the prepearations actually made in the comic its hulk for the win .

3.Xavier and jugs; WWHs mental resistance would help him alot against xavier and his cunning and superior intelligence make him BFR jugs.

4. Iron man; No explanation needed hulk wins all day.

Originally posted by ultimatethor


To start with the black bolt incident, the blackbolt was a skrull first of all and really there was no proof that he screamed. Considering that BB has almost never screamed i consider a big stretch to assume the skrull screamed in that incident.

Bare in mind im not arguing that WWH can for 100 percent certainity take BBs scream. I am arguing that it is a reasonable possibility. Heres my reasons.

1. BB was a skrull but not all skrulls are weaker than the people they impersonate.
2. I dont think its a stretch that he screamed because:
a) It looked like a scream
b) WWH just survived a whisper unscathed its not illogical to think that he would use a scream because BB realised he would need ALOT more power.
c) I think when WWH said "I want to hear you scream" this is what the writers were implying

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Bare in mind im not arguing that WWH can for 100 percent certainity take BBs scream. I am arguing that it is a reasonable possibility. Heres my reasons.

1. BB was a skrull but not all skrulls are weaker than the people they impersonate.
2. I dont think its a stretch that he screamed because:
a) It looked like a scream
b) WWH just survived a whisper unscathed its not illogical to think that he would use a scream because BB realised he would need ALOT more power.
c) I think when WWH said "I want to hear you scream" this is what the writers were implying

Well i understand what your trying to say. Howver im still not to convinced it was the full scream because of the damage done. I would think that blacbolts scream would be able to do more than what happened in the comic. It might have been more than a whisper but IMO not up to the full scream

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Well i understand what your trying to say. Howver im still not to convinced it was the full scream because of the damage done. I would think that blacbolts scream would be able to do more than what happened in the comic. It might have been more than a whisper but IMO not up to the full scream

Thats fair enough. At least I think it could have been a low showing for the scream. I personally think its open to opinion people can say it was or it wasnt but I dont think its fair to rule out the possibility.

Hulk survives planet break attacks? Lets take a quick look at this first off. Stick with me or skip to the next paragraph if you are having a hard time following this. How many nukes do you figure it would take to destroy the planet? More than 100 easily. Now, keeping in mind that 100 nukes couldnt destroy the planet, Maestro, formerly one of the most powerful Hulk versions, was more or less taken out by 1 gamma bomb. Now lets pretend WWH is say 10 times stronger than Maestro, which I dont believe he is. How much more powerful is a gamma bomb than a nuke? MAYBE twice as powerful. So by that logic, 20 nukes should be able to kill WWH, which is far from a "earth destroying" force. As a side note, I vaguely remember BB's full force scream being compared to something along the lines of 100 nukes. Regardless he hasnt been specifically shown to have screamed in continuity so thats mostly speculation. However he definately did not scream or even shout in the WWH "fight". He is shown whispering, with the word "enough" appearing in very tiny print.

Moving on, the BFR on Juggernaut was a joke. He runs into a lake? Yeah alright explain that. And granted Hulk has telepathic resistance, but Xavier isnt a ordinary telepath, and hes stated with confidence that he could have put the majority of the secret wars participants to sleep. Does Charles really strike you as being so arrogant to make that claim without the ability to back it up?

I dont particularly have a problem with the Fantastic Four or Iron Man fights, as they do have many variables attached to each. However Sentry I can dispute as well. People who move at light speed should NOT be getting clocked by people who cant break the sound barrier. Now granted writers do that often unfortunately. Superman seemed to forget most of his powers when fighting Doomsday, which is somewhat similiar to this.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I posted more than one example I even tried to make that very clear. My other argument was also that BB would have expected Hulk to absorb the impact and thats what happened when BB whispered The Hulk he absorbed the impact of the whisper.

Now considering the fact that BB whispered the Hulk and **** all happened to the moon and WWH took it pretty well its not illogical to think that he screamed.



Why do you think I mentioned it was a WEAKER version of the Hulk?

Now lets have a look at one of those examples shall we. Why would Black Bolt expect Hulk to absorb a whisper when he's used a whisper to KTFO Hulk before?

And as to the latter... what?

The only thing that that would prove is that a skrull's scream is <<<< the real thing.

I concede that if there was any chance of a scream, it's just because they couldn't/didn't replicate Blackagar's full power.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well you know what I think you had better go back and read the feat again because:

1. Reed asks him to shout.
2. Since the being had the power of the Watcher common sense dictates that he used more than a whisper since Hulk has survived a whisper.
3. He would not be able to do it without the machine.
4. There is not a big difference between a scream and a shout

Considering that a weaker version of the Hulk cracked a Celestial armours without assistance and 1 Celestial is more powerful than a Watcher, Hulk has a strength feat comparable to BBs shout. Professor Hulk was considerably more powerful than Savage Hulk and WWH is more powerful than Professor Hulk.

Why would Black Bolt shout?

He was hesitant to do anything, thinking that Reed's machine wouldn't work. Then when he did, the panel read that he spoke for what looked to be a single syllable.

And since when did ABC logic, Hulk's strength, and nonexistant shouts have anything to do with the argument at hand about Hulk's durability?

Furthermore, lest you think that old Hulk is to a whisper what WWH is to a scream... that's still completely irrelevant.

And if you do think that, we might as well end the discussion here.

Jesus christ... give your logic a once-over before hitting that "submit reply" button.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Well you know what I think you had better go back and read the feat again because:

1. Reed asks him to shout.


You might want to look at it again. Reed says "Blackbolt, speak."

World War Hulk with those stips clears this.

Originally posted by skyfather
how far does hulk get if the Illuminati were prepared to kill the hulk and no concern for the amount of casualties.?
no bfr

1.black bolt
2.iron man w/spin tech
3.xavier and juggernaut
4.dr strange
5.reed/ff4 with prep
6.sentry


Going by the rules of the thread hulk would get to three and stop hard, There is still the Question of if the spin tech was not stolen would it have stopped the hulk but from starks little speech even he didnt seem sure if it would work on him or even if it did how long it could keep him down.So even getting past two is still up in the air in my opinion.Seeing that there is not option for bfr I dont see him getting past juggs.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
When a voice that has done awe-inspiring feats fails to do anything to Hulk, then yes, it's PIS. Hell, even without his voice, BB was enough to give Thor a run for his money.
Every time Hulk faced Thor, he gave him a run for his money and beaten Thor a few times. Just saying

Originally posted by Zeitgeist


Furthermore, lest you think that old Hulk is to a whisper what WWH is to a scream... that's still completely irrelevant.

And if you do think that, we might as well end the discussion here.



Good riddance.


Originally posted by celestialdemon
You might want to look at it again. Reed says "Blackbolt, speak."

No you read it again.

http://img44.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=84f20_doom4.jpg

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


No you read it again.

http://img44.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=84f20_doom4.jpg

Ah, didn't see that scan.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Hulk survives planet break attacks? Lets take a quick look at this first off. Stick with me or skip to the next paragraph if you are having a hard time following this. How many nukes do you figure it would take to destroy the planet? More than 100 easily. Now, keeping in mind that 100 nukes couldnt destroy the planet, Maestro, formerly one of the most powerful Hulk versions, was more or less taken out by 1 gamma bomb. Now lets pretend WWH is say 10 times stronger than Maestro, which I dont believe he is. How much more powerful is a gamma bomb than a nuke? MAYBE twice as powerful. So by that logic, 20 nukes should be able to kill WWH, which is far from a "earth destroying" force. As a side note, I vaguely remember BB's full force scream being compared to something along the lines of 100 nukes. Regardless he hasnt been specifically shown to have screamed in continuity so thats mostly speculation. However he definately did not scream or even shout in the WWH "fight". He is shown whispering, with the word "enough" appearing in very tiny print.


The Hulk has resisted force enough to put a planet out of orbit and that was a weaker Hulk. Im pretty sure that force could be used to destroy a plane. Hulks thunderclap combined with another force also destroyed a whole dimension. In all fairness it was not the thunderclap alone but it was a major contributing force.

Originally posted by redhotrash

Moving on, the BFR on Juggernaut was a joke. He runs into a lake? Yeah alright explain that.

What the big deal Juggernaut was moving forward and WWH let go. Juggernaut was producing so much force he went for miles.

Originally posted by redhotrash

And granted Hulk has telepathic resistance, but Xavier isnt a ordinary telepath, and hes stated with confidence that he could have put the majority of the secret wars participants to sleep. Does Charles really strike you as being so arrogant to make that claim without the ability to back it up? .

Hulk has resisted mind control from Loki im pretty sure he can resist Xavier. Xavier was basically wrong, period. Galactus was also in that scan theres no way hes putting Galactus to sleep.


Originally posted by celestialdemon
Ah, didn't see that scan.

Fair enough.

Oh yeah there are scans that show what BB did after the whisper it looked like a scream.

This also could be considered to be a scream

http://img25.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=84243_lilandra3.jpg

Its says it unleashes his pain into the earth. Most likely you dont unleash your pain by whispering and it also states that he was trying to resist screaming so most likely what he did was scream into the earth and the planet absorbed most of it.

edit: It actually says cry out in pain, not scream. Its debateable wether it was a scream because you can obvosuly scream out in pain. Even if it was not a scream its not far off.

Lulz.

Trying to mind rape Hulk would leave Xavier in serious need of Tylenol.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Hulk survives planet break attacks? Lets take a quick look at this first off. Stick with me or skip to the next paragraph if you are having a hard time following this. How many nukes do you figure it would take to destroy the planet? More than 100 easily. Now, keeping in mind that 100 nukes couldnt destroy the planet, Maestro, formerly one of the most powerful Hulk versions, was more or less taken out by 1 gamma bomb. Now lets pretend WWH is say 10 times stronger than Maestro, which I dont believe he is. How much more powerful is a gamma bomb than a nuke? MAYBE twice as powerful. So by that logic, 20 nukes should be able to kill WWH, which is far from a "earth destroying" force. As a side note, I vaguely remember BB's full force scream being compared to something along the lines of 100 nukes. Regardless he hasnt been specifically shown to have screamed in continuity so thats mostly speculation. However he definately did not scream or even shout in the WWH "fight". He is shown whispering, with the word "enough" appearing in very tiny print.

Moving on, the BFR on Juggernaut was a joke. He runs into a lake? Yeah alright explain that. And granted Hulk has telepathic resistance, but Xavier isnt a ordinary telepath, and hes stated with confidence that he could have put the majority of the secret wars participants to sleep. Does Charles really strike you as being so arrogant to make that claim without the ability to back it up?

I dont particularly have a problem with the Fantastic Four or Iron Man fights, as they do have many variables attached to each. However Sentry I can dispute as well. People who move at light speed should NOT be getting clocked by people who cant break the sound barrier. Now granted writers do that often unfortunately. Superman seemed to forget most of his powers when fighting Doomsday, which is somewhat similiar to this.

Really this logic is quite weak. Trying to use a low feat cancel out other feats is just plainly stupid. The maestro may have been taken out by a gamma bomb but regular savage hulk has survived the gamma bomb on multiple occassions not to mention all the other times he has survived multiple nukes. I still dont think he took a scream obviously.

And then talking about Xavier? The hulk has resisted telepathy from the shaper of worlds who is so far superior to xavier its not even funny

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh yeah there are scans that show what BB did after the whisper it looked like a scream.

This also could be considered to be a scream

http://img25.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=84243_lilandra3.jpg

Its says it unleashes his pain into the earth. Most likely you dont unleash your pain by whispering and it also states that he was trying to resist screaming so most likely what he did was scream into the earth and the planet absorbed most of it.

That's a nice speculation.

Originally posted by llagrok
That's a nice speculation. If that.

Medusa (the one with the red hair, Phantom Zone), says he'll obliterate half the planet if he unleashes all his power in one of the panels immediately prior.

Then he lets some power loose into the planet, and the structure remains intact.

Clearly, then Black Bolt was screaming into the ground (I don't know about the rest of you, but I certainly scream with gritted teeth). Granted, it goes completely against every statement about Black Bolt's voice, his established personality, and much continuity, but I think it's OBVIOUS that that's what's happening. I'm definitely not reading too far into this because my infatuation with swinging off the Hulk's gamma-irradiated nut sack gives me the worst sort of tunnel vision.

Ok thats fine. Anyway read and comprehend the post about this incident.

http://img44.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=84f20_doom4.jpg


Originally posted by Phantom Zone


1. Reed asks him to shout.
2. Since the being had the power of the Watcher common sense dictates that he used more than a whisper since Hulk has survived a whisper.
3. He would not be able to do it without the machine.
4. There is not a big difference between a scream and a shout

Considering that a weaker version of the Hulk cracked a Celestial armours without assistance and 1 Celestial is more powerful than a Watcher, Hulk has a strength feat comparable to BBs shout. Professor Hulk was considerably more powerful than Savage Hulk and WWH is more powerful than Professor Hulk.