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Hand to hand only...

who wins?...

H2H I'd go with Colossus. Full use of abilities it edges towards Aquaman.

Colossus

Where are they fighting? If Aquaman gets Piotr in the water it's a sure win for him, on land Arthur gets done raw.

Yeah, Aquaman would destroy him underwater thanks to his increased strength and speed, but on land the Ruskie'd take him hand to hand. If Aquaman gets his full abilities though, he could probably pull out a win.

^colossus doesn't need to breath and can stay in organic steel form for indefinite periods of time and his athletic prowess overall gets heightened to superhuman levels.

colossus for the win imo.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^colossus doesn't need to breath and can stay in organic steel form for indefinite periods of time and his athletic prowess overall gets heightened to superhuman levels.

colossus for the win imo.

Aquaman is already nearly as strong as colossus out of water. His skin nearly as durable.

Now Colossus wins, But he'd have to work for it. Especially since Aquaman is far faster and more skilled. Now if this were in Water, big A would win, every time.

Colossus wins, but Aquaman would definitely make him work for it.

But I have a serious question. Even IF the fight was to go to the water, what could Aquaman feasibly do to Colossus? Knock him around? Try to drown him? I'm sure I don't even need to mention that Colossus does not need to eat, breathe, or drink anything while transformed (he is completely sustained) and can stay transformed for, seemingly, as long as he wants--but I just said it anyway. Even Aquaman's Waterbearer Hand shouldn't do any damage to Colossus.

By the way, what Aquaman are we talking about here? Orin or Arthur Joseph?

Arthur...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
Arthur...

Oh damn. Then Colossus wins even faster than previously believed.

cool...

Originally posted by fangirl101
Aquaman is already nearly as strong as colossus out of water. His skin nearly as durable.

Now Colossus wins, But he'd have to work for it. Especially since Aquaman is far faster and more skilled. Now if this were in Water, big A would win, every time. If Aquaman is nearly as strong and as durable but far faster and more skilled how does Colossus win?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
If Aquaman is nearly as strong and as durable but far faster and more skilled how does Colossus win?

Agreed!

I really dont think Aquamans nearly as durable as Colossus.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
If Aquaman is nearly as strong and as durable but far faster and more skilled how does Colossus win?

becuz colosuss is still harder to hurt. someone can be even stronger than colossus but not be able to harm him. I think one woul dneed to be wonder woman/hulk lvl of strength to actually harm colossus.

Colossus.

what about aquaman's telepathy?

i'm not sure if the new, and by new i mean crap, one has it...

He does, but he is much less adept at it....gotta' love DC. Anyway, classic Aquaman would definitely demolish Colossus in the water, and on land he'd put up on heck of a fight, but he'd go down in the end. As for asking what he could do to his metal skinned opponent...well, Aquaman is strong enough to hurt Superman (not beat him, mind, but his punches can hurt him) so he should be able to beat Pitor unconscious eventually underwater. If he gets tired, he could always call in a pod of whales for some ramming attacks.

Aquaman.
If he can take out Olympian and take punches from WW I don't see why he can't take Colossus.

Plus he is faster and more skilled and has his telepathy to play havoc with Piotr.

Well, he had the trident when he took out Colossus....still, he DID take out the Deep Six without it....

is this water hand or no? because the water hand does make a diffrence...it increased his strength lv sooo...

piotr

My mistake, I meant to say "he had the trident when he took out Olympian." I don't know, it would be REALLY close.

I think Aquaman is faster and more skilled, but not as strong nor as durable (at least on land)So I'll give it to Colossus, but in water Colossus would never hit him and Aquaman could just underwater speedblitz him.

Originally posted by BentonGrey
My mistake, I meant to say "he had the trident when he took out Olympian." I don't know, it would be REALLY close.

Yeah
BUT he just threw the Trident at Olympian and just bounced.
He didn't use it like when he fought the Imperiex probe where it was amped.
He beat the crap out of Olympian only by using his strength.
The Trident at BEST acted as a distraction.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Yeah
BUT he just threw the Trident at Olympian and just bounced.
He didn't use it like when he fought the Imperiex probe where it was amped.
He beat the crap out of Olympian only by using his strength.
The Trident at BEST acted as a distraction.

Thanks for the clarification Comicfann, I'm afraid I've only seen scans of the encounter, not read the entire issue. In that case, then Olympian's defeat definitely counts as a high end feat for Aquaman, since that guy took out Martian Manhunter, right?

Originally posted by BentonGrey
Thanks for the clarification Comicfann, I'm afraid I've only seen scans of the encounter, not read the entire issue. In that case, then Olympian's defeat definitely counts as a high end feat for Aquaman, since that guy took out Martian Manhunter, right?

Something like that.
Though Orin has beat many class 100 characters on the past, Olympian was a good feat.

i think aquaman could take this.........probably not h2h though.

Aquaman isn't as strong, and his body armor certainly doesn't approach Colossus', not when Shrapnel could cut him to pieces with a blast. If they slugged it out, and Aquaman chose to stand his ground he would bruise, bleed, and eventually fall.

If Aquaman fought smart, and used his superior speed, managing to get him into water he'd win with ease.

Why are people saying Aquaman isn't as strong, I thought he was mid Class 100?

Yeah Aquaman seems to be close to the big guns in the strength department but I wouldn't give him class 100 status.

If he isn't even class 100 how is he close to the "big guns"?

Aquaman class 100? So he's stronger than Namor?

Well, Aquaman doesn't necessarily have strength as high as some of the guys he's fought, but he is MUCH faster than most of them, and in general a very intelligent fighter.

aquaman is no class 100, even if he was though, he wouldn't be as strong as namor. namor is close up there with herc strength-wise, even stronger underwater(it's been stated)

i do think aquaman could take this though, but not h2h.

Originally posted by Leobama
Aquaman class 100? So he's stronger than Namor? Namor is Class 100...

actually with his water hand he is at class 100 but its lower 100 because the hand amped his ability's up alot...hook hand and before was like what 65-70 something like that. and the new (gay)aquaman idk but hes deff not 100

Hook Hand Aquaman ran a little less than Mr. Hydes level of about 50 tons, so I'd say he was roughly in the 40- 45 ton range. With the water hand he runs at about maximum 50 tons - 55 tons, and that's really pushing it as I have trouble believing that he is above the Vision in power.

He most certainly isn't approaching Namor or Colossus; not when She Hulk can physically bully him about, even tearing his armor apart, while telling him that he's plenty strong but not able to play in her league.

Namor would do much better than that if he were to square off with She Hulk and Colossus is listed as being stronger than Namor.

Originally posted by Stoic
Colossus is listed as being stronger than Namor. And where was this listed?

By feats Namor is stronger from what I've seen.

Originally posted by Mindset
And where was this listed?

By feats Namor is stronger from what I've seen. Here's my understanding of the strenght level....marvel and the various wiki websites are not in sync on namor's maximum strenght level as some have him in the mid to upper class 100 levels and others at exactly 100 tons even max, depends on whos word you want to take for it......wiki database has orin at 60 tons on land and lower class 100 underwater and aquaman to me has been portrayed as that strong only in recent years.......i think he beats either she-hulk or COLOSSUS in water only.

Namor has lifted thousands of tons.

several times. he's an A class 100 tonner. much like herc

Aquaman wins. When AC was fighting She-Hulk wasn't fighting back as he had his eye on the prize.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Aquaman wins. When AC was fighting She-Hulk wasn't fighting back as he had his eye on the prize.

True.
She Hulk

DIDN'T a) Beat him
b) KO him
c) Not even phase him or make him bleed

Anyway his skin is much tougher than some steel armor anyway and he wasn't fighting back either. He took the prize and gave DC the win in that fight.

Originally posted by Stoic
Hook Hand Aquaman ran a little less than Mr. Hydes level of about 50 tons, so I'd say he was roughly in the 40- 45 ton range. With the water hand he runs at about maximum 50 tons - 55 tons, and that's really pushing it as I have trouble believing that he is above the Vision in power.

He most certainly isn't approaching Namor or Colossus; not when She Hulk can physically bully him about, even tearing his armor apart, while telling him that he's plenty strong but not able to play in her league.

Namor would do much better than that if he were to square off with She Hulk and Colossus is listed as being stronger than Namor.

This is wrong on so many accounts.

First of all Orin has supported an 8 store building out of water or beaten Olympian (a character with Hercules strength again out of water)

So She-Hulk made him bleed? KO him? Phase him?

No.She just broke an armor .
Aquaman's skin is tougher than that.
He's taken hits from Wonder Woman before.

So Aquaman being 50 ton is at best laughable.

Originally posted by Stoic
Aquaman isn't as strong, and his body armor certainly doesn't approach Colossus', not when Shrapnel could cut him to pieces with a blast. If they slugged it out, and Aquaman chose to stand his ground he would bruise, bleed, and eventually fall.

If Aquaman fought smart, and used his superior speed, managing to get him into water he'd win with ease.

Shrapnel did not cut him though.
We did not see that.
Claiming something that hasn't happened is just wrong.
For all we know Aquaman could be just fine.

AM has schooled 100 classes before and has took a shot directly from WW without any serious injury...the tin man is outclassed here.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
AM has schooled 100 classes before and has took a shot directly from WW without any serious injury...the tin man is outclassed here.

this is h2h. aquaman can't trade blows with ptior for too long. if this was a regular match though, i'd say aquaman.

Well in h2h im not certain of AM's abilites, I know colossus doesn't move very fast in combat so if Aquaman has h2h superspeed then he could easily take it...although so far im fairly certain he doesnt have superspeed in h2h.

i think he could outmanuever C in battle, but not be really be able to slug it out in the long run.

Hmm, well if he does have h2h superspeed he would take this...but damn no feat is coming to mind right now.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well in h2h im not certain of AM's abilites, I know colossus doesn't move very fast in combat so if Aquaman has h2h superspeed then he could easily take it...although so far im fairly certain he doesnt have superspeed in h2h.

He doesn't have Flash superspeed.
But he can blitz someone like a GL (Powering) or Titus or The Eel.
And he can outrun an enraged angel (while jumping from roof to roof)
He is certainly waaaay faster than a brick (even an agile one like Colossus)
Fast enough for a human NOT TO SEE HIM MOVE.
I don't know if this is called superspeed
but it certainly is FAAAST

Plus I don't get all the doubt.
He has beaten a character with HERCULE'S strength (and superspeed, invulnerability, flight, etc) in h2h and Herc>Colossus.
He even fought Ultraman, Wonder Woman and Despero (after he took out Martian Manhanter) out of water and was fine.
Especially in Despero's case he was more than fine until D used telepathy.

All of these characters are above Colossus physically and in all of those fights Aquaman used only his physical attributes.

I don't see Piotr taking this.
Orin ftw.

Did I seriously hear people say Aquaman is weak? Aquaman literally lifted a entire city block underwater

Originally posted by -K-M-
Did I seriously hear people say Aquaman is weak? Aquaman literally lifted a entire city block underwater its easier to lift things underwater

I'll lift your mom underwater.


Anyway, Colossus drowns him.

aquaman is not that close to as strong or as durable as colossus......at least not on average.

Originally posted by Starscream M
its easier to lift things underwater

Not if it was completly waterlogged, no it's not. If there were air pockets that can leveate some of the weight not all.

Originally posted by Starscream M
its easier to lift things underwater

Yeah things.
Not an entire city block, with buildings, streets, trees, cars, etc.
We are talking thousands of tons here.

Plus he lifted an 8 store building out of water.
And he supported another one.

On average Aquaman is not that strong.

Since 1994 when PAD started writing him and reestablished him as a character he is.
And that is the character's portrayal since then.
That's 14 years.
Not something that happened 1,2 or 10 times and then gone away.

His last 14 years show Orin as a much, much more powerful character than Colossus.

Fact.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Did I seriously hear people say Aquaman is weak? Aquaman literally lifted a entire city block underwater Originally posted by Starscream M
its easier to lift things underwater

Oh snap!

Originally posted by comicfan11
Yeah things.
Not an entire city block, with buildings, streets, trees, cars, etc.
We are talking thousands of tons here.
Or a few hundred pounds.

Back me Brucey!

Originally posted by comicfan11
He doesn't have Flash superspeed.
But he can blitz someone like a GL (Powering) or Titus or The Eel.
And he can outrun an enraged angel (while jumping from roof to roof)
He is certainly waaaay faster than a brick (even an agile one like Colossus)
Fast enough for a human NOT TO SEE HIM MOVE.
I don't know if this is called superspeed
but it certainly is FAAAST

Plus I don't get all the doubt.
He has beaten a character with HERCULE'S strength (and superspeed, invulnerability, flight, etc) in h2h and Herc>Colossus.
He even fought Ultraman, Wonder Woman and Despero (after he took out Martian Manhanter) out of water and was fine.
Especially in Despero's case he was more than fine until D used telepathy.

All of these characters are above Colossus physically and in all of those fights Aquaman used only his physical attributes.

I don't see Piotr taking this.
Orin ftw.

That's what i thought, so basically aquaman can intiate attacks while propelling his body at superspeed to something that is similar to somone like"Flash or Quicksilver". Those scans would be awesome if u had them, oh and has he ever reacted to someone attacking at superspeed?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Not if it was completly waterlogged, no it's not. If there were air pockets that can leveate some of the weight not all. was the city block completely waterlogged? It prob also has alot of wood in the buildings

Originally posted by Starscream M
its easier to lift things underwater not really. water pressure plus displacing that above water make it harder to lift.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Not if it was completly waterlogged, no it's not. If there were air pockets that can leveate some of the weight not all.

Well cement brick and mortar have air pockets.


Colossus would have no problem lifting Aquamans greatest weight, unless someone is suggesting that Aquaman is stronger than Colossus.

rock and stone are not buoyant.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
That's what i thought, so basically aquaman can intiate attacks while propelling his body at superspeed to something that is similar to somone like"Flash or Quicksilver". Those scans would be awesome if u had them, oh and has he ever reacted to someone attacking at superspeed?

The respect thread has them.
But it's 14 pages.
If you have time you can find them.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
rock and stone are not buoyant.

Cement, brick, and mortar all contain tiny pockets of air, so I would say that we can remove at least 10-20% of the total weight that he lifted underwater not to mention air pockets in crawl spaces all over the place.

Colossus' very body would put Aquaman at a disadvantage if they were to fight blow for blow. As a teen Colossus was weaker than he is now, and his body remained mostly intact from a blast by the Beyonder.

Originally posted by Stoic
Cement, brick, and mortar all contain tiny pockets of air, so I would say that we can remove at least 10-20% of the total weight that he lifted underwater not to mention air pockets in crawl spaces all over the place.

Colossus' very body would put Aquaman at a disadvantage if they were to fight blow for blow. As a teen Colossus was weaker than he is now, and his body remained mostly intact from a blast by the Beyonder.

10%-20%
So he lifted some less thousand tons.
Your point?

Point is that Colossus is stronger than Aquaman, and far more durable, while Aquaman is faster, so if they went at it in a slugfest Aquaman would lose, how can i say this? Well a weaker younger Colossus did well against a being that would destroy Aquaman very quickly.... Gladiator.

I've never been a fan of lifting things underwater. But is this feat impressive considering he carried it water logged to shore? And to get it to shore he had to carry it on his back for 2 miles.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus/ColossusliftingX-jet_2.jpg

I have also seen a scan where it's stated the blackbird weighs 300 tons.

Originally posted by Stoic
Point is that Colossus is stronger than Aquaman, and far more durable, while Aquaman is faster, so if they went at it in a slugfest Aquaman would lose, how can i say this? Well a weaker younger Colossus did well against a being that would destroy Aquaman very quickly.... Gladiator. I agree a h2h fight Colossus would win. But if AC gets to use his bag of tricks he'd have the big edge.

Originally posted by Stoic
Point is that Colossus is stronger than Aquaman, and far more durable, while Aquaman is faster, so if they went at it in a slugfest Aquaman would lose, how can i say this? Well a weaker younger Colossus did well against a being that would destroy Aquaman very quickly.... Gladiator.

LOL
Aquaman beat Olympian (a guy with Hercules strength "schizofrenic SUPERMAN of Greece)
Did well (as you say) against ULTRAMAN (Earth -3 Superman)
Manhandled Despero.
Took punched from an enraged Wonder Woman.
KOed with one punch Superboy.
Stalemated Lobo.
Broke through a steel cage with one hand.
Pawned the entire Deep Six (and Slig is stated as a class 100 character)
Beat Trigon who held Wonder Woman with one hand and she couldn't break free.

ALL of these guys would wreck Colossus (especially Despero or Ultraman) easy.

So Colossus feat is only "doing well against Gladiator".
The same glads that Gambit took out with a deck of cards.

I'm still waiting on some proof that Piotr is stronger.
What's the most he has lifted?
The tougher opponent he actually defeat?

Orin has the feats.
Piotr so far in this thread has only hype.

You know why?
Because Marvel has that stupid site with that stupid scale system.

DC doesn't have one.
For all we know Blue Devil or Atom Smasher could be the so called "class 100"

Who cares?
Feats define the characters.
Not someone saying "Colossus is stronger because he has more red bars in Marvel's site"

I won't argue that Aquaman is stronger than Colossus, as I really couldn't say for sure, but I will say that I haven't seen Colossus do anything that really struck me as vastly beyond Arthur. The Blackbird seems to pale in comparison to several of Aquaman's feats (like the aforementioned city block. Going head to head with Gladiator...well, Aquaman did fight a successful delaying action against Ultraman, yet another Superman class figure.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I've never been a fan of lifting things underwater. But is this feat impressive considering he carried it water logged to shore? And to get it to shore he had to carry it on his back for 2 miles.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus/ColossusliftingX-jet_2.jpg

I have also seen a scan where it's stated the blackbird weighs 300 tons.

This is the Kong,a giant sub from the JLApe storyline (look at it's size in comparison with the buildings of Atlantis)
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/60/aquamanannual0536cv0.jpg

Here Aquaman intercepts it (saving another sub) and then proceeds to leap out of the ocean and drag it with him
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4748/aquamanvsthekong2hy3.jpg

Originally posted by BentonGrey
I won't argue that Aquaman is stronger than Colossus, as I really couldn't say for sure, but I will say that I haven't seen Colossus do anything that really struck me as vastly beyond Arthur. The Blackbird seems to pale in comparison to several of Aquaman's feats (like the aforementioned city block. Going head to head with Gladiator...well, Aquaman did fight a successful delaying action against Ultraman, yet another Superman class figure.

That's what I'm saying.
What does Colossus have to back up all of his hype.
Orin's feats are all over the place.

To be fair, the only time Colossus lifted anything underwater it weighed 300 tons and he carried it on his back effortlessly for 2 miles to shore. And the waster isn't his realm it's AC's. So what has AC lifted on land?

Well, he held up a collapsing building...in a fire...by himself.

Originally posted by BentonGrey
Well, he held up a collapsing building...in a fire...by himself. Colossus held up a hospital and a series of massive avalanches.

Snoop where did it say the blackbird was 300 tons? As I think in one of the old handbooks list it around 60-70 tons.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Snoop where did it say the blackbird was 300 tons? As I think in one of the old handbooks list it around 60-70 tons. I have the scan somewhere. Plus, I thought handbooks were not used?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
To be fair, the only time Colossus lifted anything underwater it weighed 300 tons and he carried it on his back effortlessly for 2 miles to shore. And the waster isn't his realm it's AC's. So what has AC lifted on land?

A building on fire.
Supported another collapsing building.
Lifted a spacecraft.

Plus lifting stuff on the surface is not in his realm so it makes perfect sense that most of his feats are underwater.
The three instances I've indicated though are a good indicator of his strength.

Still who has Colossus beaten that put him in Aquaman's league?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I have the scan somewhere. Plus, I thought handbooks were not used?

Generally no their not, this is me actually being curious as I don't know.

Originally posted by comicfan11
A building on fire.
Supported another collapsing building.
Lifted a spacecraft.

Plus lifting stuff on the surface is not in his realm so it makes perfect sense that most of his feats are underwater.
The three instances I've indicated though are a good indicator of his strength.

Still who has Colossus beaten that put him in Aquaman's league? Colossus held up a collapsing underground base that was 200 feet underground....and on top of that was a massive avalanche.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Generally no their not, this is me actually being curious as I don't know. I'll see if I can find it. But it clearly states the bird weighs 300 tons.

No rush, if you find it you can pm me whenever as I trust you

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Colossus held up a collapsing underground base that was 200 feet underground....and on top of that was a massive avalanche.

Impressive.
But still who has Colossus beaten on the level of Superboy or Triton (DC
version son of Poseidon strong enough to hold Wonder Woman with one hand) or Olympian or Despero.

Beaten.
Not fought.

He schooled the New X-Men before....and he wasn't out for blood:

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7008/colossus11hf.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7186/colossus27oa.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4643/colossus33dw.gif

Originally posted by -K-M-
Snoop where did it say the blackbird was 300 tons? As I think in one of the old handbooks list it around 60-70 tons. in the OHOTMU deluxe edition vol. 15 it says the blackbird is 145,000 lbs
(normal take-off weight), that's around 72 imperial tones.

piotr was only a teen when he lifted it though, his strength has at least quadrupled since then.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
in the OHOTMU deluxe edition vol. 15 it says the blackbird is 145,000 lbs
(normal take-off weight), that's around 72 imperial tones.

piotr was only a teen when he lifted it though, his strength has at least quadrupled since then. So we are to use handbooks? I wish people would make up their mind. If we use handbooks Colossus is Class 100 then.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
He schooled the New X-Men before....and he wasn't out for blood:

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7008/colossus11hf.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7186/colossus27oa.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4643/colossus33dw.gif


You think they are on Olympians or Desperos level?

In issue 16 of his PAD series Orin stalemated and then kicked out of Atlantis (out of water Atlantis) a JLA team with WW, MM, Obsidian, Guy Gardner, Ice and Fire.
In issue 48 he fought an entire army of alien conquerors (out of water) and beaten their leader.

Still New X-men is a good feat but has Piotr beaten any character on the level of Olympian or Triton or etc... one one one?

Originally posted by comicfan11


Still New X-men is a good feat but has Piotr beaten any character on the level of Olympian or Triton or etc... one one one? Well he has beaten Juggernaut.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandJuggySW38.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandJuggySW38-2.jpg

And S'ym, and he's a guy who is strong enough to break adamantium:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandSym2.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandSym.jpg

when did aquaman beat despero?

I thought that Despero varied in power.

Originally posted by Raoul
when did aquaman beat despero?
Is he talking about the encounter with the shark?

He also beat Anateus...and he claimed he had the stength to move mountains, Colossus even aknowledges his strengt is far greater than his:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandAntaeus.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandAntaeus2.jpg

Originally posted by snoopdogg
So we are to use handbooks? I wish people would make up their mind. If we use handbooks Colossus is Class 100 then.

That's the problem with DC and Marvel.

Marvel has handbooks (that mean nothing because both Colossus and say... Wonder Man are listed as class 100 but everybody seems to think that WM would murder Piotr)

DC doesn't have because they don't need to.
Everybody knows that Supes is top dog but if Damage lifts a small building everything will be fine becuase he is not restricted by a category that means nothing.

For example Wonder Girl is what level?
I don't know.
Does anybody know for sure?

If Damage beats her nobody will be shocked.
And after that if Wonder Girl lifts a skyscraper again nobody will be shocked because she is just a very strong character that is not restricted by handbooks or ability bars.

If Tigershark beat Grey Hulk in a fist fight out of water evrybody will say "WTF TS is class 80 but Grey Hulk is 90!!! how the heck this happened !!!!"

Originally posted by snoopdogg
So we are to use handbooks? I wish people would make up their mind. If we use handbooks Colossus is Class 100 then. the weight of the blackbird shouldn't change since it's a real (now decommissioned) aircraft, the lockheed SR-71 series blackbird. the x-men's type is the RS-150, the only difference is the x-men's has more seating room (up to 3 pilots as apposed to 2 for the SR-71) and a shi'ar combustion engine. the weight is virtually the same as the real thing.

and handbooks are fine, as long as there used in conjunction with current comics since feats and such are subject to change.

The scans with Juggs show Juggs claiming that he beat Piotr (which actually happened) and then Colossus sneaks up on him and pushes him in a pool or something.

That's not a beating.

The guy with the adamantium I'm not familiar with but t says that that's not Colossus but a conjuration against which Sym has no effect.
Plus when did this guy break adamantium?
Did he break it or used some power to dissolve it?
Thor can't break adamantium as far as I know.
Is this character stronger?

As for Antaeus claiming means little.
Sentry claims to have the power of a million exploding stars yet he can't handle Jim Hammond and a Hellicarier or Wolverine (in Avengers/Defenders)
Plus he claims to have stalemated Galactus.

Originally posted by comicfan11
The scans with Juggs show Juggs claiming that he beat Piotr (which actually happened) and then Colossus sneaks up on him and pushes him in a pool or something.

That's not a beating.

The guy with the adamantium I'm not familiar with but t says that that's not Colossus but a conjuration against which Sym has no effect.
Plus when did this guy break adamantium?
Did he break it or used some power to dissolve it?
Thor can't break adamantium as far as I know.
Is this character stronger?

As for Antaeus claiming means little.
Sentry claims to have the power of a million exploding stars yet he can't handle Jim Hammond and a Hellicarier or Wolverine (in Avengers/Defenders)
Plus he claims to have stalemated Galactus. Are you the type of guy who can get slapped across the face but a ghost and then turn aroud and say "On, that was the wind"?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Is he talking about the encounter with the shark?

Yes.
The same Despero that thrashed Martian Manhunter and Aquaman was punching him like a ragdoll through some decomisioned ships.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Are you the type of guy who can get slapped across the face but a ghost and then turn aroud and say "On, that was the wind"?

No.
Are you the guy who can answer some logical questions (like the whole conjuration think and the whole "I pushed Juggernaut in a pool while he wasn't looking" and not start insulting people?

Originally posted by comicfan11
No.
Are you the guy who can answer some logical questions (like the whole conjuration think and the whole "I pushed Juggernaut in a pool while he wasn't looking" and not start insulting people? The only way to beat Juggernaut is via BFR. That's what Colossus did.

S'ym fought Colossus in Limbo where he was at his most powerful. I think maybe you should read a few more Marvel comics.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
The only way to beat Juggernaut is via BFR. That's what Colossus did.

S'ym fought Colossus in Limbo where he was at his most powerful. I think maybe you should read a few more Marvel comics.

I will.
As you should more DC.

But for now just answer me that or give me a scan or an issue number.
In what issue did this guy Sum break adamantium by strength?
Or did he just claim it on a panel.

As for Juggs I know that the only way is to BFR him, BUT what Colossus did could easily be done by the Beast or Spiderman.
Juggs doesn't way more than a couple of tons at best.
All Piotr did was sneak up on him and push him a little while Cain wasn't looking.

Hardly something impressive.

As for Antaeus claims don't equal feats.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Yes.
The same Despero that thrashed Martian Manhunter and Aquaman was punching him like a ragdoll through some decomisioned ships.

what issue is this?

Originally posted by comicfan11
I will.
As you should more DC.

But for now just answer me that or give me a scan or an issue number.
In what issue did this guy Sum break adamantium by strength?
Or did he just claim it on a panel.

As for Juggs I know that the only way is to BFR him, BUT what Colossus did could easily be done by the Beast or Spiderman.
Juggs doesn't way more than a couple of tons at best.
All Piotr did was sneak up on him and push him a little while Cain wasn't looking.

Hardly something impressive.

As for Antaeus claims don't equal feats. Well Colossus did say Anateus is far stronger than he is. Being they were fighting eachother I would say it's safe to assume he was as strong as he says he is.

Illyana thought Colossus was dead and that that was just a conjuration of Colossus. Which is was not.

Originally posted by Raoul
what issue is this?

Despero appeared and started beating MM in #117 (2005) of the previous JLA series (written by Geoff Johns the same guy who wrote Virtue and Vice- where Despero was manhandling four heavyhitters at the same time)

Aquaman fought him in the next issue #118 (2005)

Originally posted by comicfan11
Despero appeared and started beating MM in #117 (2005) of the previous JLA series (written by Geoff Johns the same guy who wrote Virtue and Vice- where Despero was manhandling four heavyhitters at the same time)

Aquaman fought him in the next issue #118 (2005) I remember that fight. But wasn't there circumstances?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Well Colossus did say Anateus is far stronger than he is. Being they were fighting eachother I would say it's safe to assume he was as strong as he says he is.

Illyana thought Colossus was dead and that that was just a conjuration of Colossus. Which is was not.

Thank you for you reply.

As far as Antaeus goes seems Colossus used his skill which is cool.
But Orin is also skilled (actually extremely skilled if it comes to that and he is used to taking out strong guys)
Anyway Anataeus seems strong but still the whole mountain moving claim is just that a claim.
Cool fight though.

I don't want to sound annoying (which I will probably) but what about the whole "he can break adamantium thing for Sym"?
An issue number at least, because as far as i know many top tiers tried to break adamantium and failed.
It's hard to believe a guy that strong was beaten so easy by Colossus.

Was that the issue that Aquaman's sharks were the only thing that really did anything to Despero, and Despero beat him anyway?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Sympower.jpg

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I remember that fight. But wasn't there circumstances?

Despero arrived on Earth holding MM one handed.
Orin poked him with a still rod and then the fight was on.
The next thing you see is Despero being punched through a ship and thrown in the sea (that had to be some dozen meters punch)

In the sea some sharks attack Despero.
You can see some wounds on Orin (meaning there was trading of hits) and then Orin punches Despero again out of the sea (a punch that sends him some more dozen meters flying)
After that Orin and MM try to use telepathy against Despero.
The fight ends when they are both possessed.

What circumstances you mean?
It was an old school h2h fight.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Despero arrived on Earth holding MM one handed.
Orin poked him with a still rod and then the fight was on.
The next thing you see is Despero being punched through a ship and thrown in the sea (that had to be some dozen meters punch)

In the sea some sharks attack Despero.
You can see some wounds on Orin (meaning there was trading of hits) and then Orin punches Despero again out of the sea (a punch that sends him some more dozen meters flying)
After that Orin and MM try to use telepathy against Despero.
The fight ends when they are both possessed.

What circumstances you mean?
It was an old school h2h fight. I already said AC wins if he can use his bag of tricks. But if it goes melee I side with the man of steele.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Despero arrived on Earth holding MM one handed.
Orin poked him with a still rod and then the fight was on.
The next thing you see is Despero being punched through a ship and thrown in the sea (that had to be some dozen meters punch)

In the sea some sharks attack Despero.
You can see some wounds on Orin (meaning there was trading of hits) and then Orin punches Despero again out of the sea (a punch that sends him some more dozen meters flying)
After that Orin and MM try to use telepathy against Despero.
The fight ends when they are both possessed.

What circumstances you mean?
It was an old school h2h fight.


Comics have always applied CIS, are you suggesting that Aquaman would be able to be a serious match for Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Thor... and others on or around Despero's level.

Is this what you believe?

BTW here is a strenght feat that is probably one of Colossus' best. He smashes a barrier that the combined attackes of Dr. Strange, Wolverine's claws, and Storms lightning could not.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus/Colossusannual_4.jpg

Originally posted by comicfan11
Despero appeared and started beating MM in #117 (2005) of the previous JLA series (written by Geoff Johns the same guy who wrote Virtue and Vice- where Despero was manhandling four heavyhitters at the same time)

Aquaman fought him in the next issue #118 (2005)

oh, that's what you were referring to?

oh, ok...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I already said AC wins if he can use his bag of tricks. But if it goes melee I side with the man of steele.

Cool with me we will just have to agree to disagree.

BTW I just read about the Sy'm thing (not he issue itself) but reviews and summaries say that this was an alternate reality Wolvie and that the magic of that place played havoc with everyone.
Something like Wolverine being alive while his skeleton lying there etc but I'll have to find the issue and read for myself to see what happened.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Cool with me we will just have to agree to disagree.

BTW I just read about the Sy'm thing (not he issue itself) but reviews and summaries say that this was an alternate reality Wolvie and that the magic of that place played havoc with everyone.
Something like Wolverine being alive while his skeleton lying there etc but I'll have to find the issue and read for myself to see what happened. It was an alternate reality Wolverine. But I don't see why the adamantium would be any different....they went through the trouble to still put it on his bones.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It was an alternate reality Wolverine. But I don't see why the adamantium would be any different....they went through the trouble to still put it on his bones.

It could be like that.
But Ultimates is a different reality and their adamantium is nowhere near as strong as the 616 version.
Alternate characters (like Elseworlds) are not one and the same...

Plus the feat with the barrier is impressive but I read that this was an illusion (from X-men Annual #4)
So I don't even know if this is even a physical feat or a mental one.

Originally posted by comicfan11
It could be like that.
But Ultimates is a different reality and their adamantium is nowhere near as strong as the 616 version.
Alternate characters (like Elseworlds) are not one and the same...

Plus the feat with the barrier is impressive but I read that this was an illusion (from X-men Annual #4)
So I don't even know if this is even a physical feat or a mental one. Dr. Strange was still unable to get through the barrier. And they were in another dimension.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Dr. Strange was still unable to get through the barrier.

Yeah but it was an illusion...
Weaker characters have dispeeled illusions before even if more powerful ones couldn't.

Spiderman is used in fighting illusions (Mysterio) he might be able to break free easier than all of them together.

I don't think this has to do with strength.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Yeah but it was an illusion...
Weaker characters have dispeeled illusions before even if more powerful ones couldn't.

Spiderman is used in fighting illusions (Mysterio) he might be able to break free easier than all of them together.

I don't think this has to do with strength. They were in another dimension. Dr. Strange does not get fooled by illusions.

Originally posted by Stoic
Comics have always applied CIS, are you suggesting that Aquaman would be able to be a serious match for Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Thor... and others on or around Despero's level.

Is this what you believe?

You are the poster who believed that Spiderman was stronger than Aquaman correct?
And previously stated that Orin is class 40-50 at best correct?
Um...yeah...


Anyway Aquaman HAS BEATEN characters on that level (Olympian, Triton- at least WW) before.
Don't act like it's something that hasn't already happened.

And it's far from CIS (something that can't be said for Spidey vs Firelord) WHEN THE CHARACTER IN QUESTION PROVIDES THE SAME LEVEL OF FEATS FOR 14 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.
HE ALSO HAD 2 MAJOR POWER UPS.
The Aquaman you have in mind is certainly an older version.

But if you ask me would Aquaman win any of these fights in a DC comic?
Not likely.
They are DC property and some of their holy cows, so in no way would they let him have a good showing that would hurt them.
But the fact remains.
He took hits from an enraged WW and broke free from her hold and in an earlier issue of JLA rushed her and took her down momentarily.
But that's the closer you'll get to this fight, because it has never been depicted on panel before complete.

If you are talking underwater, then Aquaman is certainly taking some wins out of 10 (not even DC would portray him loosing in his element.)
Actually he has beaten Kyle Ryner underwater and Superboy.
And he stalemated Lobo out of water.
And etc... (just read the whole thread I've posted the same stuff again and again)

So to answer you question I could see him taking some wins underwater against some of them but DC wouldn't let something like that happen easy (if at all) and even more difficult out of water.

But he has beaten LESS FAMOUS character WITH THE SAME POWERSET before.
The only thing that change was mainly the name.

Well, I am not necessarily arguing that Aquaman is as strong as Colossus (it seems that Pitor has been upgraded since I was reading X-Men), but just because he isn't as strong as him doesn't mean that he can't beat him in a fight. Aquaman may not be able to BEAT the ultra top-tier characters, but he can go several rounds with them, and even stalemate them on some occasions, much like Colossus.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
They were in another dimension. Dr. Strange does not get fooled by illusions.

I'll also have to read it I guess but fro what I read from other sources it was an illusion, and dispelling an illusion doesn't require physical strength.
Anyway I'll call it a night for now.
Cheers.

Originally posted by comicfan11
I'll also have to read it I guess but fro what I read from other sources it was an illusion, and dispelling an illusion doesn't require physical strength.
Anyway I'll call it a night for now.
Cheers. You will find out they were brought to this dimension in hopes of beating Margali Szardos.

I saw ultimate Colossus trashing wolverine without a heart. Is this some new upgrade? I know he doesn't need to eat and breath in his armored form. Is Colossus now immortal in his metal form? There are so many abilities that you just see once in awhile. ex, resistence to magic. The writers don't write him consistently, there are times he looks bad ass then they portray him as a whimp. It's hard to keep track of what he can or can't do.

on land its close, but I believe Colossus has the advantage so I give it to him. But in the water, near water in a swamp etc. I would give it to Aquaman.