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This is Spider-Man with his old new upgrades.

Both are blood lusted.

Fight in the city.


Who wins?

Ultimate Cap 6/10. He was evenly wrestling with Ultimate Spiderman in the 'Ultimate Six' storyline. He gets the majority because he's more of a badass. :P

Cap.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ultimate Cap 6/10. He was evenly wrestling with Ultimate Spiderman in the 'Ultimate Six' storyline. He gets the majority because he's more of a badass. :P

616 Spiderman > Ult. Spiderman

Ult. Cap 8/10

So, by consensus forum logic, Ult. Spidey = Ult. Cap > 616 Spider-Man > 616 Cap.

Originally posted by DigiMark007


So, by consensus forum logic, Ult. Spidey = Ult. Cap > 616 Spider-Man > 616 Cap.



Or for some

Ult. Spidey = Ult. Cap > 616 Cap > 616 Spiderman

Or 616 Cap > Ultimate Cap > Batman > any Spider-man

Originally posted by DigiMark007


So, by consensus forum logic, Ult. Spidey = Ult. Cap > 616 Spider-Man > 616 Cap.

ABC logic and appeal through majority rarely coincide. You know that better than anyone. IMHO, Ult. Cap could take out Ult. Spidey and 616 Spidey through sheer fighting skills, comparable physiques and his ruthless tenacity. 616 Cap can dominate 616 Spidey because he knows his moves inside out despite the physical disadvantages. 616 Cap vs Ult. Spidey? More of a throwup since they're different people. But Ult. Spidey is much much much more inexperienced. Sometimes, he's downright hilarious at how noobish he his. If 616 Cap understands that, he'd be able to take advantage of that.

As for Ult. Cap vs 616 Cap? Toss-up.

Still, Ult. Cap vs 616 Spiderman? Ult. Cap's physical statistics are comparable to 616 Spidey's. He can leap as high as he does, he's one-shotted the likes of Ult. Juggernaut with a jump-kick. He clearly also has better durability. His fighting skills are also superior and he doesn't mind cheating like a bastard. 616 Spidey is good. Not that good. Spiderman gets 4/10 by pissing Ult. Cap off and throwing him off his game.

Ult. Cap 6/10.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
ABC logic and appeal through majority rarely coincide. You know that better than anyone. IMHO, Ult. Cap could take out Ult. Spidey and 616 Spidey through sheer fighting skills, comparable physiques and his ruthless tenacity. 616 Cap can dominate 616 Spidey because he knows his moves inside out despite the physical disadvantages. 616 Cap vs Ult. Spidey? More of a throwup since they're different people. But Ult. Spidey is much much much more inexperienced. Sometimes, he's downright hilarious at how noobish he his. If 616 Cap understands that, he'd be able to take advantage of that.

It was a joke. You realized that, right?

awehermm

Originally posted by Bentley
Or 616 Cap > Ultimate Cap > Batman > any Spider-man



Funniest post of the day.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It was a joke. You realized that, right?

awehermm I phail at recognizing Digi's humor. ;-;

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I phail at recognizing Digi's humor. ;-;

Wait....Digi has a humor side?

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Wait....Digi has a humor side?

Banned.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Banned.

616 Spiderman 7/10


U.Cap hasn't shown the skill to be able to defeat 616 Spiderman. As even U.Spiderman defeated the Green Goblin while U.Cap was unable to to much too GG.

616 Spiderman is "superior" too U.Spiderman.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
616 Spiderman 7/10


U.Cap hasn't shown the skill to be able to defeat 616 Spiderman. As even U.Spiderman defeated the Green Goblin while U.Cap was unable to to much too GG.

616 Spiderman is "superior" too U.Spiderman. Are you kidding me? Ult. Cap was beating up Ult. Green Goblin in 'Ultimate Six.' Not only was he nailing him with punches and kicks and drawing blood, but he was also dancing around him so much that Osborn lost his temper. He only managed to singe him with a fire blast. That's it.

616 Spiderman may be superior, but Ult. Cap's a better fighter and his physical stats either rival or surpass 616 Spiderman's. Please.

Ult. Cap 6/10. Ult. Cap is so underrated it's a joke.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Are you kidding me? Ult. Cap was beating up Ult. Green Goblin in 'Ultimate Six.' Not only was he nailing him with punches and kicks and drawing blood, but he was also dancing around him so much that Osborn lost his temper. He only managed to singe him with a fire blast. That's it.

616 Spiderman may be superior, but Ult. Cap's a better fighter and his physical stats either rival or surpass 616 Spiderman's. Please.

Ult. Cap 6/10. Ult. Cap is so underrated it's a joke.


He drew blood about the size of 3 drops which is nothing to celebrate about since U.Cap hits were only moving his face an inch or two and not doing really anthing.

Now U.Spidermans punch sent GG flying. Even with the help of Wasp, Hawkeye, and even U.Ironman. U.Cap couldn't beat GG.........LOL.

Seriously go read it and look at the art again.

The fact that you say U.Cap wins because he's more bad ass is delusional in itself.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
He drew blood about the size of 3 drops which is nothing to celebrate about since U.Cap hits were only moving his face an inch or two and not doing really anthing.

Now U.Spidermans punch sent GG flying. Even with the help of Wasp, Hawkeye, and even U.Ironman. U.Cap couldn't beat GG.........LOL.

Seriously go read it and look at the art again.

The fact that you say U.Cap wins because he's more bad ass is delusional in itself. Funny how when I look at the art, Ult. Cap's punch knocked his head sideways and so did his kick and drew blood. Also funny how you forget to mention that Ult. Green Goblin was not expecting Parker's punch at all and it was a cheapshot. ALSO funny how you make it sound like Ult. Spidey one-shotted him in that same encounter when all he did was punch him once, whereupon Osborn got pissed off. ALSO funny how you forget to mention that by the time everyone you mentioned, Ult. Wasp, Hawkeye and Ironman got involved in the fight, was when Stark hit him with the gene scrambler that subjected Osborn to a massive genetic mutation burst.

Seriously go read it and look at the art again.

And don't forget the words. They're important. Ult. Cap physically rivals 616 Spiderman in the feats department. His tactical fighting skills are superior. If you want to continue underrating Ult. Cap, go read both volumes of Ultimates, Ultimate War, Ultimate Six and Ultimate Secret. That ought to bring you up to speed.

Ult. Cap 6/10.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Funny how when I look at the art, Ult. Cap's punch knocked his head sideways and so did his kick and drew blood. Also funny how you forget to mention that Ult. Green Goblin was not expecting Parker's punch at all and it was a cheapshot. ALSO funny how you make it sound like Ult. Spidey one-shotted him in that same encounter when all he did was punch him once, whereupon Osborn got pissed off. ALSO funny how you forget to mention that by the time everyone you mentioned, Ult. Wasp, Hawkeye and Ironman got involved in the fight, was when Stark hit him with the gene scrambler that subjected Osborn to a massive genetic mutation burst.

Seriously go read it and look at the art again.

And don't forget the words. They're important. Ult. Cap physically rivals 616 Spiderman in the feats department. His tactical fighting skills are superior. If you want to continue underrating Ult. Cap, go read both volumes of Ultimates, Ultimate War, Ultimate Six and Ultimate Secret. That ought to bring you up to speed.

Ult. Cap 6/10.

Wow.....side ways thats incredible(in case you haven't figure it out I'm being sarcastic)......wow a drop of blood. No were did I say U.Spiderman one-shotted him, quote me I dare you.....LOL.

I said he sent him flying. Because his punch made him travel in the air.........LOL.

The fact that you said U.Cap rivals 616 Spiderman is absurd. Go read 616 Spiderman. Read Amazing, Spectacular, annuals, one shots guest appearances.

That ough to bring you up to speed.

U.Cap doesn't even rival USAgent let alone 616 Spiderman.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Wow.....side ways thats incredible(in case you haven't figure it out I'm being sarcastic)......wow a drop of blood. No were did I say U.Spiderman one-shotted him, quote me I dare you.....LOL.

I said he sent him flying. Because his punch made him travel in the air.........LOL.

The fact that you said U.Cap rivals 616 Spiderman is absurd. Go read 616 Spiderman. Read Amazing, Spectacular, annuals, one shots guest appearances.

That ough to bring you up to speed.

U.Cap doesn't even rival USAgent let alone 616 Spiderman.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!11

Wow. You don't think Ult. Cap rivals USAgent or Spiderman? He evenly wrestled with Ult. Spiderman. One shotted Ult. Juggernaut with a kick (who fugging beat up Ult. Colossus). Went toe-to-toe with Ult. Hulk who was ripping through tanks and actually knocked him out. Leaped several stories straight up from a burning jet. Dove from 600 feet high straight into water. Took half a pint of tetrodotoxin and was still fighting. Got completely double-fist pounded by Ult. Abomination and got straight back up again.

If you think these feats don't place Ult. Cap on the tier next to or above USAgent or Ult. Spidey, you're smoking some dern nasty grass there son. Take your unpatriotic tuckus and read some Ultimates, commie.

Ult. Cap 6/10.

Spidey ftw.

I thought general consensus was that Ultimate Cap was stronger, but had weaker fighting skills then 616 Cap ? He also has a more volatile temper.

Originally posted by grey fox
I thought general consensus was that Ultimate Cap was stronger, but had weaker fighting skills then 616 Cap ? He also has a more volatile temper. General consensus has Ult. Cap stronger, faster and more durable than 616 Cap. General consensus also assumes that he has weaker fighting skills (debateable). What leads me to believe that a lot of people underrate Ult. Cap is that the general consensus also gets it wrong as to just how much stronger, faster and more durable Ult. Cap is compared to 616 Cap. I've seen stupid numbers thrown around like "4-5 tonner at best" or "still street level." Utterly, utterly wrong.

His temper is a weakness though when it causes him to lose composure. You saw that in his fight against Herr Kleiser. 616 Spidey should be able to close the fighting skills gap by pissing him off. Then again, Ult. Cap's only lost his composure once against a Nazi Alien who killed his allies in WWII and was in the process of destroying the world. So I don't think you can place all your eggs in that one basket.

Ult. Cap 6/10.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!11

Wow. You don't think Ult. Cap rivals USAgent or Spiderman? He evenly wrestled with Ult. Spiderman. One shotted Ult. Juggernaut with a kick (who fugging beat up Ult. Colossus). Went toe-to-toe with Ult. Hulk who was ripping through tanks and actually knocked him out. Leaped several stories straight up from a burning jet. Dove from 600 feet high straight into water. Took half a pint of tetrodotoxin and was still fighting. Got completely double-fist pounded by Ult. Abomination and got straight back up again.

If you think these feats don't place Ult. Cap on the tier next to or above USAgent or Ult. Spidey, you're smoking some dern nasty grass there son. Take your unpatriotic tuckus and read some Ultimates, commie.

Ult. Cap 6/10.


Last I checked U.Cap works out with small weights unlike Agent who uses 10 plus tons. He wrestled with a nervous break down Spiderman who holds back a lot. One shotted U.Juggernaut who was never shown to be out anywhere.

Toe to toe? Did you even see that U.Cap got owned by U.Hulk twice he only put him down briefly if any. Add to that there was major circumstances like U.Ironman making U.Hulk puke out his guts to even Wasp calming U.Hulk down to only have a tank fall on him.

LOL

Yeah Lie much. I think you've been exposed.

You lost the battled just like U.Cap back down from U.Thor in the bar.....Son.


Face it Cap is waaaaaaaaaay to American for U.Cap.

Originally posted by grey fox
I thought general consensus was that Ultimate Cap was stronger, but had weaker fighting skills then 616 Cap ? He also has a more volatile temper.

I agree he's stronger but nothing in the 10-15 ton range like USAgent or Spiderman.

More like 2-4 tons at the most.

Definitely has weaker fighting skills compared too 616 Cap.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0


Ult. Cap 6/10. your hard-on for Ult Cap is quite incredible to witness...

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Last I checked U.Cap works out with small weights unlike Agent who uses 10 plus tons. He wrestled with a nervous break down Spiderman who holds back a lot. One shotted U.Juggernaut who was never shown to be out anywhere.

Toe to toe? Did you even see that U.Cap got owned by U.Hulk twice he only put him down briefly if any. Add to that there was major circumstances like U.Ironman making him puke out his guts to even Wasp calming U.Hulk down to only have a tank fall on him.

LOL

Yeah Lie much. I think you've been exposed.

You lost the battled just like U.Cap back down from U.Thor in the bar.....Son. Did it look like Ult. Cap's max capacity? Especially when he's having a casual conversation with Ult. Wasp? No? Sit down and get ready for your lesson, kid.

Ult. Spidey being forced to fight Ult. Cap because he thought his Aunt May would be killed is still a force to be reckoned with. But it's debateable that he was holding back. At the same time, it is equally debateable that Ult. Cap did not want to hurt him either. So considering that Parker was trying to prevent his Aunt May from being killed and Ult. Cap didn't want to beat up a poor kid out of his depth, the knife cuts both ways. You all comfy sittin down yet, kid? Good, there's more.

Ult. Juggernaut wrecked the X-Mansion and was shown to be on par with Ult. Colossus ON-PANEL. I won't fault you for not knowing this as it is painfully obvious you didn't read Ultimate X-Men or Ultimate War. One kick. Surprising? Not really... considering he put down Ult. Hulk. Put that dunce cap on now, kid. More schoolin's a comin.

I know that Ult. Ironman, Wasp and ther tank took their shots at Ult. Hulk. Did you also read the fact that everything they were doing was only making Ult. Hulk stronger and stronger as the fight went on? And despite what you think happened, it's undeniable at that point that Ult. Hulk was still durable enough to emerge virtually unscathed out of the tank and was still strong enough to tear that reinforced tank apart with his bare hands. But then again, your lack of clarity on those events is not surprising. No matter what, he knocked out Ult. Hulk. I never once denied that Ult. Cap took a nasty beating thereafter. Which is completely in line with him getting stronger and stronger as the fight went on. But considering that he took some unmitigated pounding straight on his face, that also speaks volumes about Ult. Cap's durability too. Take your dunce cap and sit in a corner, kid.

I don't lie. You know what I do? I read. You should try it sometime. Take your desperate attempts at undermining my credibility and stuff em under your dunce cap, kid. A lot better have tried and failed.

And while we're calling pots black, making it sound like Ult. Cap backed down from a fight with Ult. Thor in the bar is ridiculous. Ult. Cap confronted him about leaking secrets and Ult. Thor denied them with a simple credible explanation. Ult. Cap got spit on, then Ult. Thor chastized his own followers and finally Ult. Cap walked away with a warning. They never sized up against each other. Take your garbage elsewhere. You don't want to see me gettin nastier than I am past destroying your arguments and overturning your accusations. I will downright embarass you, kid.

Ult. Cap 6/10.

Spidey 9/10

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No matter what, he knocked out Ult. Hulk.

Uh, no. He tripped him with a leg sweep. being knocked over isn't remotely close to being knocked out.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Did it look like Ult. Cap's max capacity? Especially when he's having a casual conversation with Ult. Wasp? No? Sit down and get ready for your lesson, kid.

Big whupp 616 Cap has a feat with weights and he's talking as well. Doesn't mean he's as strong as Agent or 616 Cap. Does it.






So its then becomes debatable both ways one holds back more...one more more prone to being violent. The fact that U.Spiderman was talking and asking questions during this shows this as same for U.Spiderman its just a question of who is holding back more. Thus there is no proof for that. Thus the "feat" becomes moot.





Put down U.Hulk briefly after said circumstances and then got owned by U.Hulk twice and needed to be saved from U.Hulk. LOL yeah right.

They even said U.Cap needed to be saved against U.Thor and this is while U.Cap had a team and relied on a flame thrower. Take some notes.. Fact is it didn't show U.Juggs unconscious.




Him getting stronger doesn't help your case. Did you forget U.Hulk was calmed down by wast and forgot his anger. Shoot of course it look like he got stronger. Calm with Cap and peed off a bit from tank since that occurred after Wasp calming him. To then Cap putting him down but "briefly" and then needed to be saved against U.Cap since he stood no chance what so ever. I see you ignore this fact as well.

Even in a issue were it shows them moving subs and other heavy equipment it shows U.Ironman and Captain Britain doing all the work as U.Cap is not bothering.........hmmmmmm I wonder why.





Too easy. Lie....you ignore.....lie......embellish and recreate.






LOL U.Cap backed down immediately when U.Thor told him he won't fold like U.Hank. And then even in U.Cap's with U.Thor he couldn't hang and relied on a flame thrower and team and they even stated U.Cap would need to be saved. As they only beat U.Thor with circumstances.

Embarrass you did that to yourself.

Originally posted by Starscream M
your hard-on for Ult Cap is quite incredible to witness...



Pretty much. He's way up there on the fanboy scale.

Just to lay any controversy to rest. I'll give you a test. Show me scans where 616 Spidey clearly surpasses these feats:

1) Taking a full-blown double-fist piledriver into the ground from a class 100 like Ult. Abomination and getting up immediately thereafter. No rolling with the blow.

2) Diving straight into water from 600 feet and being completely unharmed (which is essentially concrete at that height, so you can show him falling onto concrete headfirst without being harmed as proof too).

3) Taking half a pint of tetrodotoxin (.0008 grams injected kills an ordinary man, which means he took more than a million times over the lethal dose) and still fighting and struggling against super soldiers.

4) One-shotting a class 100 like Ult. Juggernaut with a single blow. No prior fighting, no outside interference. Just a single blow.

Show me 616 Spidey's feats that far surpass these feats and I will concede that I overestimated Ult. Cap's physicality as compared to 616 Spidey's. Simple enough, right? Go for it. No excuses. Just do it. I don't mind being called a liar, embellisher, etc. by a kid like you who doesn't even read these comics. That's fine, it's like being called slow-footed by a quadripelgic. You read Spidey, so go for it. You don't even need to read Ultimates to do this. These things are all ON-PANEL.

No excuses, no nit-picking. Just do it.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Uh, no. He tripped him with a leg sweep. being knocked over isn't remotely close to being knocked out.

By the way, although that was how he was laid out on his back, Ult. Hulk was indeed knocked out. He was down with his eyes shut and Ult. Cap had enough time to step over him, take out his needle and ask the SHIELD boys to get some med staff for when he "wakes up." Physically speaking, I doubt Ult. Hulk was lying down and letting Cap do and say all this. And Ult. Cap's own words provide more evidence to this conclusion. It's more than fair to say that he wasn't simply "tripped up."

Gnight, Daredevil1. Guess it was your bedtime. It's ok, the challenge will still be there for you in easy black and white when you wake up tomorrow. I look forward to reading your excuses and dodging- *ahem*. I mean I look forward to reading your scans and attempts at greatly surpassing those feats from 616 Spidey lore.

Durability:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7742/feat17durability2kf1.jpg

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4231/feat10skillstr0.jpg

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/896/feat9strengthmm4.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4256/feat4durabilityra9.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3887/feat9durability4ha3.jpg
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3671/feat9durability5er7.jpg

I don't remember Ult. Cap ever showing any strength feats comparable to Spiderman, 616 Cap has koed Rhino with a kick, that doesn't mean he is as strong as Spiderman. And I don't think Ult. Cap has shown one more than one occasion that kind of strength.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
By the way, although that was how he was laid out on his back, Ult. Hulk was indeed knocked out. He was down with his eyes shut and Ult. Cap had enough time to step over him, take out his needle and ask the SHIELD boys to get some med staff for when he "wakes up."

He was down for about a second then got straight back up, he was never knocked out:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3317/11ig6.th.jpg

At the moment im thinking Spiderman 8/10

Originally posted by Starscream M
your hard-on for Ult Cap is quite incredible to witness... Haha

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ult. Cap 6/10. Ult. Cap is so underrated it's a joke.

Ultimate Cap IS underrated.

He still loses to 616 Spider-Man.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just to lay any controversy to rest. I'll give you a test. Show me scans where 616 Spidey clearly surpasses these feats:

1) Taking a full-blown double-fist piledriver into the ground from a class 100 like Ult. Abomination and getting up immediately thereafter. No rolling with the blow.

2) Diving straight into water from 600 feet and being completely unharmed (which is essentially concrete at that height, so you can show him falling onto concrete headfirst without being harmed as proof too).

3) Taking half a pint of tetrodotoxin (.0008 grams injected kills an ordinary man, which means he took more than a million times over the lethal dose) and still fighting and struggling against super soldiers.

4) One-shotting a class 100 like Ult. Juggernaut with a single blow. No prior fighting, no outside interference. Just a single blow.

Show me 616 Spidey's feats that far surpass these feats and I will concede that I overestimated Ult. Cap's physicality as compared to 616 Spidey's. Simple enough, right? Go for it. No excuses. Just do it. I don't mind being called a liar, embellisher, etc. by a kid like you who doesn't even read these comics. That's fine, it's like being called slow-footed by a quadripelgic. You read Spidey, so go for it. You don't even need to read Ultimates to do this. These things are all ON-PANEL.

No excuses, no nit-picking. Just do it.


Hell I can do that with 616 Cap who's inferior to 616 Spiderman.

1. Actually its debatable wheither U.Cap took the impact head on from Abomonation. But 616 took a beat down from a blood lusted Ironman in a annual and was not KO'ed. To taking a hit from King Thor "himself".

2. Cap has fallen from a airplane crash with not his Cap suit on and no use of shield. Cap was in jail clothes at the time. He even fell from the sky going 100 mph to land on the solid rocky Thing from FF4.

3. Cap's healing has shrugged off a living virus that effected true Superhumans like She-hulk and many more. Even healed from a bullet to the head in a mere minute.

4. Cap has one shotted by your definition of it anyhow Korvac, Thunderball, Hulk. And these guys are "superior" to U.Hulk or U.Abom.

I just showed you 616 Cap matching and surpassing U.Cap. Who is actually weaker then 616 Spiderman. No point in doing it with 616 Spiderman.

Anyhow you've misrepresented the feats as seen from above anyhow. Cap's feats are better then U.Cap's feat. All your doing if just focusing on High end feats anyways so I did the say for 616 Cap.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Ultimate Cap IS underrated.

He still loses to 616 Spider-Man.


Definitly agree that he loses to 616 Spiderman. More like a poster overrates U.Cap.

Spiderman everytime.

It's been a while since I read the first 2 volumes of the Ultimates but I can't remember him doing anything that put him on 616 Spidey's level.

Originally posted by Mindset
Durability:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7742/feat17durability2kf1.jpg

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4231/feat10skillstr0.jpg

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/896/feat9strengthmm4.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4256/feat4durabilityra9.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3887/feat9durability4ha3.jpg
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3671/feat9durability5er7.jpg

I don't remember Ult. Cap ever showing any strength feats comparable to Spiderman, 616 Cap has koed Rhino with a kick, that doesn't mean he is as strong as Spiderman. And I don't think Ult. Cap has shown one more than one occasion that kind of strength. Well, at least you tried. So let me take a look at each scan and see if we have feats that clearly surpass the ones I posted of Ult. Cap. 1) The first scan has Rhino slamming his head into concrete. Rhino is class 80 from what I have found. It has nothing in the way of comparing to a double fist piledriver from a class 100+ like Ult. Abomination. If anything, it's comparable to Ult. Hulk beating on Ult. Cap. If Ult. Hulk was as weak as a class 80 character. That scan does not clearly surpass Ult. Cap's feat. 2) The second scan is comparable to Ult. Cap's dive. Even if Ult. Cap weighs twice as much as Spidey and Spidey is obviously injured from the fall, it's comparable. But again, the scan does not clearly surpass Ult. Cap's feat. 3+4) The third scan involves a poison of ambiguous strength. I hardly think that qualifies as even coming close to Ult. Cap's tetradotoxin feat, unless you can find some context there that tells us the poison gas is more than a million times the lethal dose of a healthy man. Also, the fourth scan is quite unclear to me. Has Spiderman been poisoned or is Dr. Octopus saying in the last panel that Parker hasn't been poisoned at all? 5) And the fifth scan is I guess comparable to Ult. Cap getting thrown from his rocket in World War II? Is that what you intended? Well, assuming that is a nuclear warhead and not a regular ballistic missile and that he fell from the height of the
upper atmosphere and not anything less, if he survived then it is comparable. Parker does appear to be going unconscious from the strain of the flight itself whereas Ult. Cap was climbing around and pulling plates, having a conversation and chuckin grenades into the rocket. But I don't know if Spidey was weakened from something else or not. Do you have context or an issue number? Nevertheless, it's still not a feat that clearly surpasses Ult. Cap's anyway.

And I see that you're trying to compare Ult. Cap kicking Juggernaut in one shot with 616 Cap jump-kicking Rhino. Well, in case you weren't aware, Rhino was suffocating from a lack of air in that instance and despite his enhancements to his actual body, his face is nowhere near as durable as his Rhino skin nor is his strength or durability anywhere near Ult. Juggernaut's level.
Originally posted by Scoobless
He was down for about a second then got straight back up, he was never knocked out:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3317/11ig6.th.jpg Did you read the conversation that Cap has with SHIELD over his intercom in that middle panel? Do you really think that takes a single second and that Ult. Hulk was conscious throughout all of that and simply allowed Ult. Cap to get close to him with the antidote? Cmon, now. You're better than that.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Definitly agree that he loses to 616 Spiderman. More like a poster overrates U.Cap. That was... a unique dodge. Instead of actually dealing with 616 Spiderman, you started talking about 616 Cap. And even when you tried, you still failed. Because even if some of them are comparable, most of them are simply not. I mean, you actually compare Thunderball to Ult. Juggernaut? Did you do what I told you and read some Ult. X-Men or are you still ignorant as his strength and durability? Or are you just overinflating Thunderball's strength levels? I mean, Thunderball has been noted in databases as class 10. Personally, I think that's clearly wrong, and consensus puts him at around 15-40. But class 40 against Ult. Juggernaut? Talk about ignorance.

Either way, the feats are not clearly superior. Which is all I asked. You say that 616 Spidey is clearly superior than Ult. Cap in many physical aspects. Well, I gave you the chance to prove it and you didn't. It was put up or shut up time and you quite predictably dodged because you know as well as I do, that you have no proof to back up that assertion. If anything, the above guy was at least able to show comparative feats in durability, and yet, not clearly superior. Consider yourself educated.

Ult. Cap 6/10.

P.S. And show me where 616 Cap actually one-shots Korvac and Hulk without any other interference or damage infliction. This I'd LOVE to see. But maybe it's appropriate for you to stop embarassing yourself.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

P.S. And show me where 616 Cap actually one-shots Korvac and Hulk without any other interference or damage infliction. This I'd LOVE to see. But maybe it's appropriate for you to stop embarassing yourself.

Well for starters arent Hulk and Korvac more powerful than Ult Hulk? Bad logic to me.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well for starters arent Hulk and Korvac more powerful than Ult Hulk? Bad logic to me. Ahem. I was asking for the veracity of his claims. Do you have the scans or issue numbers where 616 Cap physically knocks out either Korvac or Hulk with a single blow? No other fighting, no plot device, no previous damage soak? I'm calling bs on his claims, not arguing that Korvac or Hulk aren't stronger than Ult. Hulk.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ahem. I was asking for the veracity of his claims. Do you have the scans or issue numbers where 616 Cap physically knocks out either Korvac or Hulk with a single blow? No other fighting, no plot device, no previous damage soak? I'm calling bs on his claims, not arguing that Korvac or Hulk aren't stronger than Ult. Hulk.

The answer is no, but I dont see how its relevant. Im assuming that he was arguing that 616 Cap is better than Ult Cap and therefore Ult Cap is not that big a deal. Im also guessing you were arguing that Ult Cap is by comparing his fight with Ult Hulk to 616 Cap fights.

Of course the answer is no. As to relevancy, what exactly are you injecting into this conversation here?

It's arguable that 616 Cap is better than Ult. Cap if you take them as a whole package. But if you're talking about sheer physicality, Ult. Cap is stronger and many times more durable than 616 Cap. And I am not using the Ult. Hulk fist-fight as the only indicia of this. If you reread back to my further posts I give several physical feats that have nothing to do with the Ult. Hulk fight.

But I don't see what point you're trying to make here other than failing to see what is relevant by your projected intentions onto me and what is relevant to the actual purposes of my posts. "Is 616 Spidey vastly superior to Ult. Cap in a physical sense?" The answer is no. They are comparable. Ult. Cap has wrestled evenly with Ult. Spidey, one-shotted Ult. Juggernaut, taken a full piledriver from Ult. Abomination, leapt several stories straight up, fallen from great heights without harm, can still fight despite taking a poison dose a million times more lethal than necessary, etc., etc. That's the point that's been made. Anything else has been a dodge or side debate.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Of course the answer is no. As to relevancy, what exactly are you injecting into this conversation here?

I simply thought the argument was that Ult Cap is nothing like 616 Cap and therefore Spiderman will kick his ass.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

It's arguable that 616 Cap is better than Ult. Cap if you take them as a whole package. But if you're talking about sheer physicality, Ult. Cap is stronger and many times more durable than 616 Cap. And I am not using the Ult. Hulk fist-fight as the only indicia of this. If you reread back to my further posts I give several physical feats that have nothing to do with the Ult. Hulk fight.

But I don't see what point you're trying to make here other than failing to see what is relevant by your projected intentions onto me and what is relevant to the actual purposes of my posts. "Is 616 Spidey vastly superior to Ult. Cap in a physical sense?" The answer is no. They are comparable. Ult. Cap has wrestled evenly with Ult. Spidey, one-shotted Ult. Juggernaut, taken a full piledriver from Ult. Abomination, leapt several stories straight up, fallen from great heights without harm, can still fight despite taking a poison dose a million times more lethal than necessary, etc., etc. That's the point that's been made. Anything else has been a dodge or side debate.

Well heres the thing 616 Cap is not as strong or durable as Spiderman and 616 Cap has feats that are comparable to most of the feats you have mentioned.

I also think the thread starter was refering to 25 tons Spiderman if this is the case Ult Cap loses. That version of Spiderman has handled Shen Kuei ( yes I know hes not as tough as Ult Cap im talking about skill) with ease. Ult Cap is not skillful or fast enough to keep up with this Spiderman and this will be how he will win.

Ultimate Cap isn't really anything like 616 Cap. Ultimate Cap is stronger, more durable and has a greater healing factor. He is also a killer and he cheats. 616 Cap is weaker, less durable, but has more experience (which prove particularly useful against Spidey since he knows him inside and out) and greater proven martial arts skills. So what? You've got a lot of pluses and minuses.

People have already failed to prove that 616 Spidey is more durable than Ult. Cap. His durability is comparable to Ult. Cap's at best. And you're using Shen Kuei, a normal human with no enhancements, as a foil for Ult. Cap?

... k.

It's arguable that Spiderman will win. I only gave Ult. Cap 6/10 anyway. I merely expanded my participation in the thread because I was responding to what other people believe is 616 Spidey's vastly superior physical advantages. As far as I've seen and proved, they're comparable on nearly all physical fronts. If you want to make a Ult. Cap vs. 616 Cap thread, by all means. As far as I see, you're arguing apples and I'm arguing oranges. Keep on topic. Ult. Cap vs. 616 Spidey.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ultimate Cap isn't really anything like 616 Cap. Ultimate Cap is stronger, more durable and has a greater healing factor. He is also a killer and he cheats. 616 Cap is weaker, less durable, but has more experience (which prove particularly useful against Spidey since he knows him inside and out) and greater proven martial arts skills. So what? You've got a lot of pluses and minuses.

Nevermind.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0

People have already failed to prove that 616 Spidey is more durable than Ult. Cap. His durability is comparable to Ult. Cap's at best. And you're using Shen Kuei, a normal human with no enhancements, as a foil for Ult. Cap?

... k.

The point is as far as im concerned Ult Cap is considerably less skilled than Shen, which means Ult Cap is going to get hit alot more times than Spiderman.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0


It's arguable that Spiderman will win. I only gave Ult. Cap 6/10 anyway. I merely expanded my participation in the thread because I was responding to what other people believe is 616 Spidey's vastly superior physical advantages. As far as I've seen and proved, they're comparable on nearly all physical fronts. If you want to make a Ult. Cap vs. 616 Cap thread, by all means. As far as I see, you're arguing apples and I'm arguing oranges. Keep on topic. Ult. Cap vs. 616 Spidey.

It was on topic I already explained why. Anyway as far as im concerned Spiderman can take him in H2H and he has his webbing Ult Cap loses.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Well, at least you tried. So let me take a look at each scan and see if we have feats that clearly surpass the ones I posted of Ult. Cap. 1) The first scan has Rhino slamming his head into concrete. Rhino is class 80 from what I have found. It has nothing in the way of comparing to a double fist piledriver from a class 100+ like Ult. Abomination. If anything, it's comparable to Ult. Hulk beating on Ult. Cap. If Ult. Hulk was as weak as a class 80 character. That scan does not clearly surpass Ult. Cap's feat. 2) The second scan is comparable to Ult. Cap's dive. Even if Ult. Cap weighs twice as much as Spidey and Spidey is obviously injured from the fall, it's comparable. But again, the scan does not clearly surpass Ult. Cap's feat. 3+4) The third scan involves a poison of ambiguous strength. I hardly think that qualifies as even coming close to Ult. Cap's tetradotoxin feat, unless you can find some context there that tells us the poison gas is more than a million times the lethal dose of a healthy man. Also, the fourth scan is quite unclear to me. Has Spiderman been poisoned or is Dr. Octopus saying in the last panel that Parker hasn't been poisoned at all? 5) And the fifth scan is I guess comparable to Ult. Cap getting thrown from his rocket in World War II? Is that what you intended? Well, assuming that is a nuclear warhead and not a regular ballistic missile and that he fell from the height of the
upper atmosphere and not anything less, if he survived then it is comparable. Parker does appear to be going unconscious from the strain of the flight itself whereas Ult. Cap was climbing around and pulling plates, having a conversation and chuckin grenades into the rocket. But I don't know if Spidey was weakened from something else or not. Do you have context or an issue number? Nevertheless, it's still not a feat that clearly surpasses Ult. Cap's anyway.

And I see that you're trying to compare Ult. Cap kicking Juggernaut in one shot with 616 Cap jump-kicking Rhino. Well, in case you weren't aware, Rhino was suffocating from a lack of air in that instance and despite his enhancements to his actual body, his face is nowhere near as durable as his Rhino skin nor is his strength or durability anywhere near Ult. Juggernaut's level.
Did you read the conversation that Cap has with SHIELD over his intercom in that middle panel? Do you really think that takes a single second and that Ult. Hulk was conscious throughout all of that and simply allowed Ult. Cap to get close to him with the antidote? Cmon, now. You're better than that.
That was... a unique dodge. Instead of actually dealing with 616 Spiderman, you started talking about 616 Cap. And even when you tried, you still failed. Because even if some of them are comparable, most of them are simply not. I mean, you actually compare Thunderball to Ult. Juggernaut? Did you do what I told you and read some Ult. X-Men or are you still ignorant as his strength and durability? Or are you just overinflating Thunderball's strength levels? I mean, Thunderball has been noted in databases as class 10. Personally, I think that's clearly wrong, and consensus puts him at around 15-40. But class 40 against Ult. Juggernaut? Talk about ignorance.

Either way, the feats are not clearly superior. Which is all I asked. You say that 616 Spidey is clearly superior than Ult. Cap in many physical aspects. Well, I gave you the chance to prove it and you didn't. It was put up or shut up time and you quite predictably dodged because you know as well as I do, that you have no proof to back up that assertion. If anything, the above guy was at least able to show comparative feats in durability, and yet, not clearly superior. Consider yourself educated.

Ult. Cap 6/10.

P.S. And show me where 616 Cap actually one-shots Korvac and Hulk without any other interference or damage infliction. This I'd LOVE to see. But maybe it's appropriate for you to stop embarassing yourself.



You already embarrassed yourself with this post. You lost this before you even started and its moot since I countered already most of your feats as you still assert the same ideas without them being true.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ultimate Cap isn't really anything like 616 Cap. Ultimate Cap is stronger, more durable and has a greater healing factor. He is also a killer and he cheats. 616 Cap is weaker, less durable, but has more experience (which prove particularly useful against Spidey since he knows him inside and out) and greater proven martial arts skills. So what? You've got a lot of pluses and minuses.

People have already failed to prove that 616 Spidey is more durable than Ult. Cap. His durability is comparable to Ult. Cap's at best. And you're using Shen Kuei, a normal human with no enhancements, as a foil for Ult. Cap?

... k.

It's arguable that Spiderman will win. I only gave Ult. Cap 6/10 anyway. I merely expanded my participation in the thread because I was responding to what other people believe is 616 Spidey's vastly superior physical advantages. As far as I've seen and proved, they're comparable on nearly all physical fronts. If you want to make a Ult. Cap vs. 616 Cap thread, by all means. As far as I see, you're arguing apples and I'm arguing oranges. Keep on topic. Ult. Cap vs. 616 Spidey.


616 Spidey defeats U.Cap it was already shown 616 Spidey takes hits from the real Juggernaut. The U.Version is a watered down version.

Real Juggernaut hit greater then the abomonation who got wrecked by U.Hulk. Spiderman has taken hits from the real Hulk who is also greater then U.Hulk. Also U.Cap clearly did not take it full on the Abom first hit which you misrepresent anyway.

And U.Cap did not go toe to toe with U.Hulk as he lost easily once U.Hulk started fighting back. Even other posters have noticed you fanboy level on U.Cap.


Your credability is so down the drain no one is going to take seriously to whatever you say.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Show me 616 Spidey's feats that far surpass these feats and I will concede that I overestimated Ult. Cap's physicality as compared to 616 Spidey's.

You think U.Cap's strength feats are comparable to Spiderman is even laughable at best.

Show me U.Cap doing something like this.

http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spideyliftstrain15mmhi5.jpg

Or knocking something over thats insanely "heavy" with just a "flick" of his finger.
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Amazing_Spider-Man_32-03.jpg

To throwing a jeep towards the top of a building.

http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jeepxm7.jpg


All you have for lifting on U.Cap is a tree and some weights and lets face it. Those pale before Spiderman strength feats.

Spiderman has lifted even Tanks completely off the ground.


But........but........the tree. LOL

Oh please stop blubbering. I posted the challenge, you choked on all four feats. You haven't shown anything from 616 Spidey that clearly surpasses those four feats I listed. Of course, you outright lie in several of your statements, for instance, how about this doozy, "Cap has one shotted by your definition of it anyhow Korvac, Thunderball, Hulk." Outright lie. Utterly. He neither one-shotted Korvac, nor Hulk.

Or how about this garbage, "Even healed from a bullet to the head in a mere minute." If you notice the scan, he was clinically dead for 12 minutes. So you either can't read or you just outright lied again about some feat:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7548/page003004sn5.jpg

As for strength feats, I never argued that Ult. Cap clearly surpassed Spidey's. But he rivals them. A jeep weighs about 1 and a half tons? Even by your own admission, Ult. Cap's a 4-5 tonner at would at the very least be able to lift the jeep. It'd only take a 10-15 tonner to throw one around. The trees that were falling down and crushing those military trucks are clearly heavier than those trucks, which are heavier than that civilian jeep. If Ult. Cap can hold those trees up, then yes sure, he could reasonably throw a jeep towards a motel window:
http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled5154zw.jpg

In addition to this strength feat, we have Ult. Cap keeping up with Herr Kleiser reasonably well in a brutal H2H fight. And just as a frame of reference, since you like jeeps so much, Herr Kleiser smashed Ult. Hulk with a jeep. Ult. Cap also wrestled free from several Chinese supersoldiers when they were distracted. And just as a frame of reference, a few dozen of those Chinese supersoldiers toppled the Statue of Liberty.

And from what I remember of the 616 Spidey vs. Juggs fight, Juggernaut never double fist-pounded Spidey into the ground:
http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spidermanjuggy7ec.jpg

Whereas Ult. Abomination did fully double fist-pound Ult. Cap into the ground, everyone else can see the scans and see for themselves:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029

As for an outright liar like yourself, losing "credibility in your eyes" means nothing to me. Consider yourself educated AND exposed. Stop embarssing yourself.

You can't even show any type of lifting feat that rivals Spiderman......LOL.


Case closed.

Spiderman threw the jeep like nothing. U.Cap if he's lucky can just lift it up if any.


I've seen Arzrael lift a tree LOL and he's about a 1 tonner. And he's no were near Spiderman in strength.

So I was wrong about the bullet.

Still even with it being 12 minutes is nothing to joke about since he was deemed dead.

Your be-little of the feat doesn't help in comparison to his healing feats in regard to U.Cap's healing.

And again the first hit doesn't connect solidly like the second hid that u.abom does.

You have failed to prove he rivals Spiderman. Especially considering Cap has feats to mach U.Cap. With U.Cap being a bit stronger but nothing like Spiderman in your warped version.

Notice I said by your definition of bring down. But since your ignorant go read Fallen son and you'll see Cap bring down Hulk.

You'll see Cap one shot Thunder ball.

You'll see Cap "hurt" Korvac. The Korvac one I was wrong and I can admit my mistake unlike you. And he hurt Korvac.

But Hulk he did take knock him out and Thunderbal he put him down with one punch for a bit as Thunderbal even spouted blood.

Also I notice that tree feat is the only strength feat you have for U.Cap for lifting.

Meaning its a "high-end feat" in lifting strength. Does not equate to his regular showings.

Its like me showing off a feat of 616 Cap throwing his shield and intercepting a ICBM or Cap making Thor/Ironman feel his strength.

High end feats are not the standard.

Azrael is a genetically modified human. The Order of St. Dumas radically modified his genes at birth by splicing them with animals. I don't think it's ever been established just how strong he actually was. I'm quite sure he's more than a 1 tonner. He's not a regular human and he's quite a beast.

You made honest mistakes? Fine. I can live with that.

In my opinion, Ult. Abomination only hit Ult. Cap once. He then threw him over to Abdul. How you think the double fist piledriver didn't clearly connect, but some second punch does (and it looks more like he just threw him, not punched him) is overreaching a little bit too much. You're straining too hard to belittle his on-panel feats:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029

I read 'Fallen Son,' and even I raised an eyebrow. But you still had Cap and Spidey both fighting Hulk in that flashback. That wasn't a one-shot. And Thunderball is at best, a class 40 by forum consensus. But take that with a grain of salt because databases put him at class 10. One-shotting Thunderball has nothing on one-shotting Ult. Juggernaut.

How many comics has Ult. Cap been in? Three dozen? He doesn't even have a solo title. How many lifting feats is he supposed to have? You've got the tree and then him working out in a gym with old outdated equipment which would never support a single ton of weight in any exercise let alone several tons.

So you look to context and see if it makes sense for Ult. Cap to hold up a tree that looks to weigh 15-20 tons. And the context is revealing: 1) He can go toe-to-toe with Herr Kleiser, who smashed Ult. Hulk with a jeep; 2) can jump several stories straight up just like 616 Spidey; 3) has duked it out with Ult. Green Goblin and Ult. Hulk; 4) fought through SHIELD supersoldiers when pumped with a poison dose 1,000,000X more than lethal dosage; 5) wrestled free from half a dozen Chinese supersoldiers (when a few dozen are all thats necessary to pick up and topple the Statue of Liberty); 6) sustained a double fist piledriver from Ult. Abomination; 7) and one-shotted Ult. Juggernaut. What's so unbelievably ridiculous about Ult. Cap being class 10-20 (which rivals Spiderman) when he does all these things ON-PANEL regularly? When you take the totality of the circumstances of his limited appearances into consideration, is it REALLY that insanely illogical that he might actually just be class 10 or class 20? Honestly?

Either way, I'm not out to conclusively prove Ult. Cap is just as strong or stronger than 616 Spidey. Fact is, the point of this conversation has always been to argue that 616 Spidey is not vastly superior in physical respects. I've made my case, you have your own opinions.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Azrael is a genetically modified human. The Order of St. Dumas radically modified his genes at birth by splicing them with animals. I don't think it's ever been established just how strong he actually was. I'm quite sure he's more than a 1 tonner. He's not a regular human and he's quite a beast.

He's a beast but there are many beasts. And know to my knowledge he's always been around 1 ton from consensus as well as even Phantom Zone showed this in the last debate you were in.




Straining but it doesn't not show the connection he even cries in pain for the second hit. Not the first plus Abom telegraphed that attack from a mile away plus the fist don't look to be actually connecting make it vague at best.

Strain.....not really when its that vague.




One shot know but this is the real hulk unlike the pale imitation of U.Hulk version. Lets not go pretending U.Hulk is superior then Hulk. Plus Spiderman only assisted Cap with "one" punch a abysmal looking one at that. As Cap from memory only did what.......3? That less then U.Cap and his circumstances at that.




Let see the proof with U.Juggernaugt out unconscious last I checked it wasn't shown. Plus wasn't U.Cap wearing a gas mask at that as U.Jugg was not that could have been a factor not sure. But either way if it doesn't show U.Jugg laying limp on the floor and out. You have no proof.




Yeah you also got the quote of him getting weaker as to why he chose that gym. Plus he wouldn't work out with it unless it would aid him. If he can lift what you say he can.




Again his only high end feat. The only other strength feats that you have are in a annual throwing his triangle shield in concrete, breaking through a wooden door, lifting unimpressive weights, to maybe some other minimal ones that I'm forgetting breaking those small metal straps when he first awoke from ice. Then of course that tree again the outline of his standard. Plus again it doesn't look to impressive since Azrael someone who has never been stated to my knowledge to rival Spiderman strength. Which is what your claiming for U.Cap which isn't backed up by anything that remotely resembles Spiderman level strength from his feats.

Cap has his own high feats like bucking a thick steel door that are just as impressive as the tree in there own right.
http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capstrenfdoor1tk0.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capdoor2za5.jpg

To catching a thick torpedo as its going like 60 or 90 mph.
http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericastrenf2no0.jpg

To even breaking out of cryogenic freezing and this was after Cap was weakened as well.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4712/captainamerica444p22uk1.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3151/captainamerica4450405al5.jpg



A Kleiser who was previously hurt by a Jet ramming him and exploding on him. As he was also on fire. A Kleiser who was shot by U.Nick with a machine gun. Yeah he only had the advantage by using his shield to cut him apart.

616 Cap has a similar feat with Baron Blood. Handbooks don't do Blood any proud as they have him at 1000 lbs IIRC but on the books he put down Namor briefly and then later defeated all the Invaders along with Namor. His strength was stated to be in the Namor level in the books as well but not there either.

And during his fight with Cap there was circumstances as the Kleiser fight but in the end Cap decapitated Blood. But it doesn't demonstrate remotely that Cap is as strong as Spiderman. Nor does U.Caps fight with the scroll.





As I've seen 616 Cap accomplish.




As I covered the circumstances for these fights and Cap could replicate. Again nothing demonstrating he's above Spiderman.





Definitely impressive immune or healing from the dosage. But again Cap recovered in 12 minutes from being deemed dead to even block off a foreign living virus that affected true superhumans like She-hulk but not him.

Also in volume 3.. Cap survived inside a nuclear microwave and broke out with none other then his shield. Immediately after this he went through a group of Hyde agents only to fight the supersoilder Protocide. And Protocide easily went through USAgent. Cap IIRC even had a small advantage at that in there fight.




Cap with a kick free himself from the grips of Hulk. To even wrestle with the tentacles of the female version of Dr. Octopus.





Debatable but even if he did Cap has taken a beating from Extremis Ironman as Iroman even flew him through a thick wall. 616 Cap even took a beat down from a blood lust Ironman in another annual. To even take a back hand that sent him flying from King Thor himself.




U.Juggs wasn't shown anywhere KO'ed. Plus Cap has put down Thunderball briefly and even hurt Korvak and had King Thor down with circumstances which is more impressive then a non-seen U.Juggs.




Because there not that superior in comparison to Cap to begin with.

None of his lifting feats are on par with Spiderman. You lack of strength feats and that one outliner feat in no way or shape or form proves this. As even Azrael perfomed that similar feat. But he's no Spiderman.




Yes because

A. His lifting strength feats don't match 616 Spiderman at all.

B. Caps feats seem to be too close to his.

C. Even the first hand-book IIRC listed him at exactly 4 tons and you make the leap to a high of 20.





Indeed. As you have your own opinions as well. But I don't see U.Cap haven proven himself in the least. You say he has low showing and not that many. Maybe then you should wait till he has enough that "actually" rival Spiderman.

Because in this thread it has not been shown at all.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Azrael is a genetically modified human. The Order of St. Dumas radically modified his genes at birth by splicing them with animals. I don't think it's ever been established just how strong he actually was. I'm quite sure he's more than a 1 tonner. He's not a regular human and he's quite a beast.

Yeah and I would put Caps maximum at 2 tons. Wolverine has also lifted up a tree. Basically holding up a tree does not prove that he has strength rivaling Spiderman when street levlers have done it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

In my opinion, Ult. Abomination only hit Ult. Cap once. He then threw him over to Abdul. How you think the double fist piledriver didn't clearly connect, but some second punch does (and it looks more like he just threw him, not punched him) is overreaching a little bit too much. You're straining too hard to belittle his on-panel feats:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029


...beacuse hes not smack bang in the middle of the double-fist attack. It looks like a glancing blow because the force of the blow is making him get pushes to one side. If it was a solid hit he would have crushed underneath it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I read 'Fallen Son,' and even I raised an eyebrow. But you still had Cap and Spidey both fighting Hulk in that flashback. That wasn't a one-shot. And Thunderball is at best, a class 40 by forum consensus. But take that with a grain of salt because databases put him at class 10. One-shotting Thunderball has nothing on one-shotting Ult. Juggernaut.

Ok has Ult Juggernaut taken on anybody as powerful as Thor. From what I remember it was stated that Thunderball has taken shots from Thors hammer.

Oh yeah Cap has one-shotted Namor with a pressure point underwater. I dont think Ult Cap can top that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

How many comics has Ult. Cap been in? Three dozen? He doesn't even have a solo title. How many lifting feats is he supposed to have? You've got the tree and then him working out in a gym with old outdated equipment which would never support a single ton of weight in any exercise let alone several tons.

So you look to context and see if it makes sense for Ult. Cap to hold up a tree that looks to weigh 15-20 tons.

It doesn't matter what it looks like street levelers have lifted up trees so that dont mean nothing



Originally posted by OneDumbG0

And the context is revealing: 1) He can go toe-to-toe with Herr Kleiser, who smashed Ult. Hulk with a jeep; 2) can jump several stories straight up just like 616 Spidey; 3) has duked it out with Ult. Green Goblin and Ult. Hulk; 4) fought through SHIELD supersoldiers when pumped with a poison dose 1,000,000X more than lethal dosage; 5) wrestled free from half a dozen Chinese supersoldiers (when a few dozen are all thats necessary to pick up and topple the Statue of Liberty); 6) sustained a double fist piledriver from Ult. Abomination; 7) and one-shotted Ult. Juggernaut. What's so unbelievably ridiculous about Ult. Cap being class 10-20 (which rivals Spiderman) when he does all these things ON-PANEL regularly? When you take the totality of the circumstances of his limited appearances into consideration, is it REALLY that insanely illogical that he might actually just be class 10 or class 20? Honestly?

Either way, I'm not out to conclusively prove Ult. Cap is just as strong or stronger than 616 Spidey. Fact is, the point of this conversation has always been to argue that 616 Spidey is not vastly superior in physical respects. I've made my case, you have your own opinions.

Oh ok he still loses. Basically Spiderman is going to dance around Ult Cap and punch the crap out of him while Ult Cap tries to hit him. This is 25ton upgraded in speed Spiderman as well. Spiderman probably wins 8/10.

LOL I was actually thinking that Ult Cap was 10 tons but after the evidence you provided im starting to doubt it. I guess the fact that he is able to hurt some really strong guys and the fact he is not that skilled might be proof, but im starting to think that hes around 5 tons. Anyway the Spiderman in this thread seems to be the 25 ton Spiderman and theres no way Ult Cap can lift 25 tons.

Sorry, the utter stupidity of both of your posts has completely made me lose faith in any argumentative merit either of you tried to muster. Because in order to downplay Ult. Cap's strength and durability, you actually read this scan with your own two eyes:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029

... and say stuff like this, "the fist don't look to be actually connecting make it vague at best..." and "...beacuse hes not smack bang in the middle of the double-fist attack. It looks like a glancing blow..."

sp_ike youpi
hysterical hysterical hysterical hysterical

Seriously, someone needs to make this thread into a stickie. I gotta show everyone this...

lol1

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sorry, the utter stupidity of both of your posts has completely made me lose faith in any argumentative merit either of you tried to muster.
Because in order to downplay Ult. Cap's strength and durability, you actually read this scan with your own two eyes:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029

... and say stuff like this, "the fist don't look to be actually connecting make it vague at best..." and "...beacuse hes not smack bang in the middle of the double-fist attack. It looks like a glancing blow..."


hysterical hysterical hysterical hysterical

Seriously, someone needs to make this thread into a stickie. I gotta show everyone this...

lol1

Well if you actually think about what I said instead of assuming you're correct then you will see what im saying.

Furthermore this is a tactic used by people who can't argue their case. Your post is rubbish but your are focusing on one small aspect of my post to make yourself feel better.

Abomination hit Cap....

Originally posted by llagrok
Abomination hit Cap....

Nah really? Thats not the point though is it?

Even if abom did hit U.cap solidly with the first hit(which doesn't seem to be the case) its not "superior" towards Cap durability feats either.

(thanks via Saotome)
Cap takes a nasty beating from a blood lusted Ironman.
http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0918to3.jpg
http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0919zm0.jpg
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0921tj0.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0923ax6.jpg

Even worse from Spiderman/Ironman and then some.
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0020ke1.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0021rz1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0022nz4.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0006hc1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0007nc4.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0008dd0.jpg


Again you failed to show U.Cap is "vastly superior" towards Cap feats anyhow.

The fact that you believe he rivals Spiderman in strength with no proof whatsoever has been showed for what it really is in this thread. So a sticky would be great....LOL.

What a pointless debate. Ult. Cap puts up a good fight, but 616 Spidey takes him down.

Well to be honest, I do agree with cap strength being in the 10 ton range. He did flip and damn take one handed without any stress. That puts him leagues above 10 tons.

By the way, ultimate wolverine would thrash both, cap said this twice that he cant beat ultimate wolverine and ult spiderman has also said this during the ult spiderman/ult xmen team up.

Originally posted by carver9
Well to be honest, I do agree with cap strength being in the 10 ton range. He did flip and damn take one handed without any stress. That puts him leagues above 10 tons.

He did what?

Originally posted by carver9

By the way, ultimate wolverine would thrash both, cap said this twice that he cant beat ultimate wolverine and ult spiderman has also said this during the ult spiderman/ult xmen team up.

What?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
What a pointless debate. Ult. Cap puts up a good fight, but 616 Spidey takes him down.

I dont know about that since spiderman AGAIN has problems with high end top tier fighter and ult cap is just that ingredient. Then he has super strength and dont care about killing. I think ult cap could get a good majority over spiderman. By the way, that showing of him damaging ult. hulk is VERY impressive, that mean that his licks would have a huge impact on spiderman and we have all seen daredevil walk over spiderman with spiderman asking why he cant touch daredevil and I think that ult cap is >> 616 daredevil.

Good fight but I give this to cap 7/10.

Originally posted by carver9
we have all seen daredevil walk over spiderman with spiderman asking why he cant touch daredevil

What?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He did what?



What?

You cant deny something that happen in books. The guy flipped a tank one handed without much trouble.

And yes on panel TWICE cap stated that he isnt a match for wolverine, once was when they were in the sewers in ult xmen vs ult avengers and cap end up shooting wolverine instead stating that he'll be stupid to fight wolverine and the other was when jean, colossus and wolverine fought the avengers again and cap end up throwing a grenade at him.

Ult spiderman admitted this when he was teamed up with the xmen and seen what wolverine could do and he also stated the same thing. Ult wolverine is just as fast, if not faster then ult Spiderman, you do know that wolverine kept up with quicksilver in a battle.

Originally posted by Mindset
What?

Ill be back with the scans, spiderman had to use webbing in order to have the slightest of advantage over daredevil.

Originally posted by carver9
You cant deny something that happen in books. The guy flipped a tank one handed without much trouble.

No bruv I just did'nt get what you were saying. Thats good evidence then, its better evidence than holding up a tree.


Originally posted by carver9

And yes on panel TWICE cap stated that he isnt a match for wolverine, once was when they were in the sewers in ult xmen vs ult avengers and cap end up shooting wolverine instead stating that he'll be stupid to fight wolverine and the other was when jean, colossus and wolverine fought the avengers again and cap end up throwing a grenade at him.

Ult spiderman admitted this when he was teamed up with the xmen and seen what wolverine could do and he also stated the same thing. Ult wolverine is just as fast, if not faster then ult Spiderman, you do know that wolverine kept up with quicksilver in a battle.

Yeah and I was just thinking how is this relevant?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No bruv I just did'nt get what you were saying. Thats good evidence then, its better evidence than holding up a tree.




Yeah and I was just thinking how is this relevant?

I just wanted to bring something else up. That was all, basically I was acting stupid. Disregard it though, its not relevant.

Originally posted by Mindset
What?

Here ya go.

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=36sa.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=49ir.jpg

And this one, daredevil walks all over spiderman, spiderman had to resort to webbing to even get an advantage over daredevil and again ultimate cap>>daredevil.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/560/feat6fight1or0.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2558/feat6fight2jh0.jpg

Ultimate cap 7/10

He is 616 capt, just has super strength, an attitude and could be faster (I think that 616 cap is a slightly better fighter though but not that big of a difference.)

We have witness how spiderman did against 616 cap, he basically got walked all over and wasnt that much of a threat. Now imagine a cap that dont care what he does to his victim, he would thrash spiderman.

I think Ult Cap is slower and alot less skilled. By the way the Spiderman were talking about in this thread is a faster and stronger one. That version of Spiderman made Shin Kuei look stupid and he also humilated Kingpin.

Originally posted by carver9
Here ya go.

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=36sa.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=49ir.jpg

And this one, daredevil walks all over spiderman, spiderman had to resort to webbing to even get an advantage over daredevil and again ultimate cap>>daredevil.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/560/feat6fight1or0.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2558/feat6fight2jh0.jpg

Ultimate cap 7/10

He is 616 capt, just has super strength, an attitude and could be faster (I think that 616 cap is a slightly better fighter though but not that big of a difference.)

We have witness how spiderman did against 616 cap, he basically got walked all over and wasnt that much of a threat. Now imagine a cap that dont care what he does to his victim, he would thrash spiderman.

So you use Spiderman not fighting at 100% to prove DD is better than him?

In the first scans Spiderman was an emotional wreck, which is the only reason DD had a chance, which DD himself states.

The second scans Spiderman's spider sense wasn't working properly, and he wasn't thinking clearly. Also webbing is allowed in this fight so it's a moot point that he used webbing.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think Ult Cap is slower and alot less skilled. By the way the Spiderman were talking about in this thread is a faster and stronger one. That version of Spiderman made Shin Kuei look stupid and he also humilated Kingpin.

and why do you think that ult cap is slower when his stats have him listed at super human speed and the ultimates writer said that this cap is stronger and faster.

By the way you do know that this is the same spiderman that got owned by frogman and also later on during the issue got owned by tilt man. Ult. cap would thrash king pin.

Originally posted by Mindset
So you use Spiderman not fighting at 100% to prove DD is better than him?

In the first scans Spiderman was an emotional wreck, which is the only reason DD had a chance, which DD himself states.

The second scans Spiderman's spider sense wasn't working properly, and he wasn't thinking clearly. Also webbing is allowed in this fight so it's a moot point that he used webbing.



The point of my post wasnt that webbing isnt moot, webbing is spiderman only chance against high top tier fighters, the point of my post was that spiderman got his a** handed to him by someone that is inferior to ult cap. Spiderman didnt land a lick in both scenerios until he resorted to webbing. If you would like for me to post a much clearer fight for you I can post one where he got thrashed by silver samarai or when he got thrashed iron fist, etc.... None of my scans was low showings for spiderman, daredevil was just to much for him during that time. If you want to use that tactic and use that spiderman was clear headed, why did spiderman get stabbed in the chest by a berserk wolverine. Wolverine was focused or thinking right but he could have killed spiderman at any time. HMMMM.

Originally posted by carver9
The point of my post wasnt that webbing isnt moot, webbing is spiderman only chance against high top tier fighters, the point of my post was that spiderman got his a** handed to him by someone that is inferior to ult cap. Spiderman didnt land a lick in both scenerios until he resorted to webbing. If you would like for me to post a much clearer fight for you I can post one where he got thrashed by silver samarai or when he got thrashed iron fist, etc.... None of my scans was low showings for spiderman, daredevil was just to much for him during that time. If you want to use that tactic and use that spiderman was clear headed, why did spiderman get stabbed in the chest by a berserk wolverine. Wolverine was focused or thinking right but he could have killed spiderman at any time. HMMMM.

You are not making any sense, you ignore the main point of my post and focus on the part I talked about the webbing?

Let me make this clear for you, SPIDERMAN WAS HINDERED IN BOTH YOUR EXAMPLES. More times than not Spiderman beats DD, DD may have won one fight were Spiderman was not being affected by someone outside circumstances.

Iron Fist is on par with Cap at least.

Yea, Spiderman got stabbed in the chest by Wolverine in a practice fight when Wolverine got pissed and got serious while Pete was still messing around, real good example.

Btw I forgot to add that Spiderman fought IF evenly.

I was convinced PP would beat the living hell out of Ult. SR until I came into this thread. After reading the debates for several pages I believe Ult. Cap is on par with 616 PP.

Originally posted by carver9
The point of my post wasnt that webbing isnt moot, webbing is spiderman only chance against high top tier fighters, the point of my post was that spiderman got his a** handed to him by someone that is inferior to ult cap. Spiderman didnt land a lick in both scenerios until he resorted to webbing. If you would like for me to post a much clearer fight for you I can post one where he got thrashed by silver samarai or when he got thrashed iron fist, etc.... None of my scans was low showings for spiderman, daredevil was just to much for him during that time. If you want to use that tactic and use that spiderman was clear headed, why did spiderman get stabbed in the chest by a berserk wolverine. Wolverine was focused or thinking right but he could have killed spiderman at any time. HMMMM.

With Spiderman's speed, reflexes agility and spidersense, I don't think webbing is his only chance against skilled MA's. He is fast enough to tag them and with his SS dodge a lot of their blows as well. And with his strength his blows will do all kinfds of damage. I've seen another scan where a mind controlled Spiderman is fighting DD and although DD sees one of Spidey's punches coming (using his radar sense) he is unable to dodge, because of Spidey's greater speed

Originally posted by Mindset
You are not making any sense, you ignore the main point of my post and focus on the part I talked about the webbing?

Let me make this clear for you, SPIDERMAN WAS HINDERED IN BOTH YOUR EXAMPLES. More times than not Spiderman beats DD, DD may have won one fight were Spiderman was not being affected by someone outside circumstances.

Iron Fist is on par with Cap at least.

Yea, Spiderman got stabbed in the chest by Wolverine in a practice fight when Wolverine got pissed and got serious while Pete was still messing around, real good example.

So basically youre telling me that in that practice fight that he had with spiderman, spiderman spider sense didnt work. You do know that spiderman SEEN wolverine coming at him with his claws out, wolverine had his claws out the entire time. Dont you think that spiderman would have known that this was more then a practice section 1st by how wolverine gave him the evil look and then wolverine lunged at him claw 1st ending with spiderman webbing him to the wall.

Yes in the first scan spiderman was in a rage but he was still at full power and daredevil overcame a spiderman that wasnt holding back. I got your point, it was plain and clear but again it was still a bad showing for spiderman but spiderman has had some great showings against daredevil also.

Originally posted by carver9
So basically youre telling me that in that practice fight that he had with spiderman, spiderman spider sense didnt work. You do know that spiderman SEEN wolverine coming at him with his claws out, wolverine had his claws out the entire time. Dont you think that spiderman would have known that this was more then a practice section 1st by how wolverine gave him the evil look and then wolverine lunged at him claw 1st ending with spiderman webbing him to the wall.

Yes in the first scan spiderman was in a rage but he was still at full power and daredevil overcame a spiderman that wasnt holding back. I got your point, it was plain and clear but again it was still a bad showing for spiderman but spiderman has had some great showings against daredevil also.

Post the scans where Wolverine stabbed Spiderman. Why would Spiderman expect to be stabbed in the chest by Wolverine when they are both heroes on the same team and are just practicing? Peter punched Wolverine out of a building, so I guess Wolverine is too slow to dodge his punches.

He can be at full power, but if he is not thinking clearly enough to fight smart it wont matter, which is what DD pretty much said. Again how many times did DD beat Spiderman when Spiderman was affected by some outside circumstances?

Originally posted by BUSTER1
With Spiderman's speed, reflexes agility and spidersense, I don't think webbing is his only chance against skilled MA's. He is fast enough to tag them and with his SS dodge a lot of their blows as well. And with his strength his blows will do all kinfds of damage. I've seen another scan where a mind controlled Spiderman is fighting DD and although DD sees one of Spidey's punches coming (using his radar sense) he is unable to dodge, because of Spidey's greater speed

I agree, spiderman could take some wins against dd but the same can also be said for dare devil. By the way that speed, reflexes, and agility, along with the spider sense didnt help him in the past and sure as hell wont help him in the future against top tier martial artist. Especially against people like wolverine and Captain america. Lets put it like this, rhino has crushed peter under his own speed and strength, so I dont think that wolverine, cap, or daredevil wouldnt have a problem tagging him also.

Spiderman spider sense are so overrated on this forum that its ridiculous. Hell people as low as kingpin has worked around it and your saying that martial artist with almost equal speed, reflexes, and agility would have a problem.

Originally posted by Mindset
Post the scans where Wolverine stabbed Spiderman. Why would Spiderman expect to be stabbed in the chest by Wolverine when they are both heroes on the same team and are just practicing? Peter punched Wolverine out of a building, so I guess Wolverine is too slow to dodge his punches.

He can be at full power, but if he is not thinking clearly enough to fight smart it wont matter, which is what DD pretty much said. Again how many times did DD beat Spiderman when Spiderman was affected by some outside circumstances?

Im not the one that say that spiderman cant tag or hit wolverine. I KNOW that spiderman can hit wolverine, by the way wolverine wasnt even expecting spiderman to hit him, it was basically a caught off guard hit and wolverine dont have a spider sense that warns him.

And you answer why spiderman would expect wolverine to stab him, you must forgot the part where wolverine told spiderman that he is going to get him back for embarrassing him in front of mj. You must forgot the part where wolverine turned around at spiderman and gave him the stare of hell. You must forgot the part where spiderman know wolverine is a character that will kill and dont care about hurting his teammates. You must forgot the part where wolverine dove at spiderman claws out and if spiderman just stood there he would have gotten stabbed anyway. You must also forgot that spiderman has a power that remind him of danger and it went off the charts when wolverine was attacking him.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree, spiderman could take some wins against dd but the same can also be said for dare devil. By the way that speed, reflexes, and agility, along with the spider sense didnt help him in the past and sure as hell wont help him in the future against top tier martial artist. Especially against people like wolverine and Captain america. Lets put it like this, rhino has crushed peter under his own speed and strength, so I dont think that wolverine, cap, or daredevil wouldnt have a problem tagging him also.

Spiderman spider sense are so overrated on this forum that its ridiculous. Hell people as low as kingpin has worked around it and your saying that martial artist with almost equal speed, reflexes, and agility would have a problem.

I have trouble believing you know what you're talking about. People as low as Kingpin?

Originally posted by carver9
Im not the one that say that spiderman cant tag or hit wolverine. I KNOW that spiderman can hit wolverine, by the way wolverine wasnt even expecting spiderman to hit him, it was basically a caught off guard hit and wolverine dont have a spider sense that warns him.

And you answer why spiderman would expect wolverine to stab him, you must forgot the part where wolverine told spiderman that he is going to get him back for embarrassing him in front of mj. You must forgot the part where wolverine turned around at spiderman and gave him the stare of hell. You must forgot the part where spiderman know wolverine is a character that will kill and dont care about hurting his teammates. You must forgot the part where wolverine dove at spiderman claws out and if spiderman just stood there he would have gotten stabbed anyway. You must also forgot that spiderman has a power that remind him of danger and it went off the charts when wolverine was attacking him.

No, I just forgot that you were retarded.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree, spiderman could take some wins against dd but the same can also be said for dare devil. By the way that speed, reflexes, and agility, along with the spider sense didnt help him in the past and sure as hell wont help him in the future against top tier martial artist. Especially against people like wolverine and Captain america. Lets put it like this, rhino has crushed peter under his own speed and strength, so I dont think that wolverine, cap, or daredevil wouldnt have a problem tagging him also.

Spiderman spider sense are so overrated on this forum that its ridiculous. Hell people as low as kingpin has worked around it and your saying that martial artist with almost equal speed, reflexes, and agility would have a problem.

The SS isn't overated-it has genarally been shown in comics to guide Spiderman to help avoid danger. It even guides him when he's webswinging to ensure that he doesn't web onto unsecure anchor points. This is something Marvel themselves have created not something posters on KMC have made up.

Originally posted by Mindset
I have trouble believing you know what you're talking about. People as low as Kingpin?

So I guess king pin havent defeated spiderman.

Originally posted by Mindset
No, I just forgot that you were retarded.

I can be that but what I posted was the truth.

Originally posted by carver9
So I guess king pin havent defeated spiderman.

No, he has, the point I was making is that Kingpin is not a pushover.

You should actually know what the Kingpin is capable of before making him out as some low class fighter.

Even though when Peter actually became serious with Kingpin he completely humiliated him.

Originally posted by carver9
I can be that but what I posted was the truth.

No it's not, you don't even know about Wolverine. Your evidence was that Wolverine gave him the "stare of hell" so Peter should have expected to get stabbed in the chest. You also think Wolverine has not qualms about killing fellow heroes and his team mates. I don't see how or why I should take you seriously.

Originally posted by Mindset
No, he has, the point I was making is that Kingpin is not a pushover.

You should actually know what the Kingpin is capable of before making him out as some low class fighter.

Even though when Peter actually became serious with Kingpin he completely humiliated him.

Thats one good showing for peter against king pin and I give him his props for that. Just like wolverine had a good showing against omega red and lady deathstrike. Wolverine without his powers fought both lady deathstrike and omega red and did quite good BUT he ended up fighting omega red with the aid of colossus and got thrashed. Hell wolverine was partnered up with the entire xmen and still almost got killed facing omega red with the aid of his teammates. Everyone has a good showing against there enemies but that showing shouldnt contradict all of the other showings that has been happening in the past.

Unless youre telling me that spiderman LET kingpin beat him all of those times.

Originally posted by Mindset
No it's not, you don't even know about Wolverine. Your evidence was that Wolverine gave him the "stare of hell" so Peter should have expected to get stabbed in the chest. You also think Wolverine has not qualms about killing fellow heroes and his team mates. I don't see how or why I should take you seriously.

So wolverine dont have a problem hurting his teammates. Why did wolverine stab beast in the chest before they were both sent to that prison (forgot the name of the prison). Why have cyclops on numerous of occasions felt the edge of wolverines blade and on numerous of occasions almost got killed by wolverine. Why did wolverine attack rogue but his claws ended up bouncing off of her due to her invulnerability. Why have wolverine on numerous of occasions almost kill professor due to some rule that professor made and wolverine didnt agree with. Why did wolverine attack and could have killed colossus if his claws would have worked on him, during the time colossus mind was taken over. I can keep going. Wolverine is one of my favorite characters. I know all there is to know about him. I dont think that there are many on the forum that know much more then I do about the character. If wolverine have to or if wolverine does owe a debt he will kill or hurt his partner in a rage. Thats just him and during marvel knight #13, spiderman fell victim to that rage.

Originally posted by Mindset
No it's not, you don't even know about Wolverine. Your evidence was that Wolverine gave him the "stare of hell" so Peter should have expected to get stabbed in the chest. You also think Wolverine has not qualms about killing fellow heroes and his team mates. I don't see how or why I should take you seriously.

By the way, I hope this helps.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20durablity/ColossustakingWolverinedown

Originally posted by Mindset
No it's not, you don't even know about Wolverine. Your evidence was that Wolverine gave him the "stare of hell" so Peter should have expected to get stabbed in the chest. You also think Wolverine has not qualms about killing fellow heroes and his team mates. I don't see how or why I should take you seriously.

are you there.

Originally posted by carver9
Thats one good showing for peter against king pin and I give him his props for that. Just like wolverine had a good showing against omega red and lady deathstrike. Wolverine without his powers fought both lady deathstrike and omega red and did quite good BUT he ended up fighting omega red with the aid of colossus and got thrashed. Hell wolverine was partnered up with the entire xmen and still almost got killed facing omega red with the aid of his teammates. Everyone has a good showing against there enemies but that showing shouldnt contradict all of the other showings that has been happening in the past.

Unless youre telling me that spiderman LET kingpin beat him all of those times.

In a sense he did let Kingin beat him, because he held back, you seriously believe Kingpin would have won all those times to an unrestrained Spiderman?

But again, you do not know how good of a fighter Kingpin is, I suggest you look at his respect thrtead.

Originally posted by carver9
So wolverine dont have a problem hurting his teammates. Why did wolverine stab beast in the chest before they were both sent to that prison (forgot the name of the prison). Why have cyclops on numerous of occasions felt the edge of wolverines blade and on numerous of occasions almost got killed by wolverine. Why did wolverine attack rogue but his claws ended up bouncing off of her due to her invulnerability. Why have wolverine on numerous of occasions almost kill professor due to some rule that professor made and wolverine didnt agree with. Why did wolverine attack and could have killed colossus if his claws would have worked on him, during the time colossus mind was taken over. I can keep going. Wolverine is one of my favorite characters. I know all there is to know about him. I dont think that there are many on the forum that know much more then I do about the character. If wolverine have to or if wolverine does owe a debt he will kill or hurt his partner in a rage. Thats just him and during marvel knight #13, spiderman fell victim to that rage.

Post me some scans of him trying to kill his teammates.

Originally posted by Mindset
Post me some scans of him trying to kill his teammates.


And while he'sw at it he can post scans of the many times Kingpin 'beat' Spidey

Originally posted by BUSTER1
And while he'sw at it he can post scans of the many times Kingpin 'beat' Spidey

I wouldn't say that he beat Spidey. Because SM was holding back a lot.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I wouldn't say that he beat Spidey. Because SM was holding back a lot.

I know,thats why I put apostrophys either side of beat-I was backing up Mindset's request, for Carver9 to post scans of Logan 'trying to kill his teamates'. I suggested he sent scans scans of KP beating SM, sarcastically, as KP has never beat Spidey h2h.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
I know,thats why I put apostrophys either side of beat-I was backing up Mindset's request, for Carver9 to post scans of Logan 'trying to kill his teamates'. I suggested he sent scans scans of KP beating SM, sarcastically, as KP has never beat Spidey h2h.
Oh, my bad.

Originally posted by carver9
You cant deny something that happen in books. The guy flipped a tank one handed without much trouble.

And yes on panel TWICE cap stated that he isnt a match for wolverine, once was when they were in the sewers in ult xmen vs ult avengers and cap end up shooting wolverine instead stating that he'll be stupid to fight wolverine and the other was when jean, colossus and wolverine fought the avengers again and cap end up throwing a grenade at him.

Ult spiderman admitted this when he was teamed up with the xmen and seen what wolverine could do and he also stated the same thing. Ult wolverine is just as fast, if not faster then ult Spiderman, you do know that wolverine kept up with quicksilver in a battle.



You need too say the issue title/number. Because I've never seen U.Cap admit he isn't a match for U.Wolverine. Its possibly by the theory and of him using weapons but I've just never heard of the statement that he said.

Also when did U.Cap flip a tank over. Proof?

Originally posted by BUSTER1
I know,thats why I put apostrophys either side of beat-I was backing up Mindset's request, for Carver9 to post scans of Logan 'trying to kill his teamates'. I suggested he sent scans scans of KP beating SM, sarcastically, as KP has never beat Spidey h2h. Kingpin has proven to be more than a match for Spidey several times:
http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1635ra3.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1975po7.gif

Credit to Digimark's Kingpin Respect thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444580&highlight=title%3A%28respect+kingpin%29

Originally posted by carver9
and why do you think that ult cap is slower when his stats have him listed at super human speed and the ultimates writer said that this cap is stronger and faster.

Prove it.

Originally posted by carver9

By the way you do know that this is the same spiderman that got owned by frogman and also later on during the issue got owned by tilt man. Ult. cap would thrash king pin.

Dont think so.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
This is Spider-Man with his old new upgrades.



Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Kingpin has proven to be more than a match for Spidey several times:
http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1635ra3.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1975po7.gif


Irrelevant that is not the upgraded Spiderman.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Kingpin has proven to be more than a match for Spidey several times:
http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1635ra3.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1975po7.gif

Credit to Digimark's Kingpin Respect thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444580&highlight=title%3A%28respect+kingpin%29

In those scans Kingpin looked equal as opposed to 'more than a match' to Spiderman. And he didn't beat him h2h, ever. Unlike the 'many times' you mentioned earlier. Notice also that this is early Spidey, and Kingpin (peak humanm strength) is stalemating Spiderman (10ton strength) in the test of strength in the 1st panel. This was before Marvel established either SM or KP's strength level. Now, when these early fights are referred too, its stated/retconned that Spiderman held back against KP, for fear of killing him with his spiderstrength

Originally posted by BUSTER1
In those scans Kingpin looked equal as opposed to 'more than a match' to Spiderman. And he didn't beat him h2h, ever. Unlike the 'many times' you mentioned earlier. Notice also that this is early Spidey, and Kingpin (peak humanm strength) is stalemating Spiderman (10ton strength) in the test of strength in the 1st panel. This was before Marvel established either SM or KP's strength level. Now, when these early fights are referred too, its stated/retconned that Spiderman held back against KP, for fear of killing him with his spiderstrength

It doesn't matter anyway alot of people don't realise that the spiderman in this thread is the upgraded Spiderman who has class 25 strength and was even faster.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It doesn't matter anyway alot of people don't realise that the spiderman in this thread is the upgraded Spiderman who has class 25 strength and was even faster.

Even better-but I had to make my point against OneDumbG0, as he was coming out with all these claims about Spiderman being beaten loads of times by Kingpin h2h, then coming up with 2 scans showing them fighting as equals (Spiderman having his arm in a sling in one scan)

http://i32.tinypic.com/k520jo.jpg

ultimate cap FTW

Originally posted by darth fury
http://i32.tinypic.com/k520jo.jpg

ultimate cap FTW

All that proves is that Ult cap is tough, don't mean he wins.

U.Cap is yelling squelling like a girl at the end of that scan. And thats supposed to prove he wins..........LOL

These U.Cap fans crack me up.

The rest of that fight. Notice U.Thor has to save U.Cap. "shruggs"
http://img307.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ult05p161ts.jpg
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/Genis101/Ultimate%20Captain%20America/5-vstheHulk5.jpg
Here's there rematch notice U.Cap gets treated like a insignificant fly.
http://img314.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ult05p214tz.jpg


And the U.Cap can go toe to toe with U.Hulk myth has ended.

ok fine heres another.... this is what he did to Giant Man if you want to see the scans of him actually beating the shit outta him then il post em
ultimate cap FTW!

http://i26.tinypic.com/2rp4ahs.jpg

Originally posted by darth fury
ok fine heres another.... this is what he did to Giant Man if you want to see the scans of him actually beating the shit outta him then il post em
ultimate cap FTW!

http://i26.tinypic.com/2rp4ahs.jpg

So what? Giant man is nothing like Spiderman.

So what??

He defeated GM using lots of metal girders falling on him.


TM defeated 3 GM using just his shield at that.

GM isn't that impressive. Its a nice flashy scene.

But


eh.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So what? Giant man is nothing like Spiderman.


Yeah Rhino could whupp U.GM. But who cares of me showing scans of Spiderman wrecking Rhino. It doesn't really help him at all.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
U.Cap is yelling squelling like a girl at the end of that scan. And thats supposed to prove he wins..........LOL

These U.Cap fans crack me up.

The rest of that fight. Notice U.Thor has to save U.Cap. "shruggs"
http://img307.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ult05p161ts.jpg
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/Genis101/Ultimate%20Captain%20America/5-vstheHulk5.jpg
Here's there rematch notice U.Cap gets treated like a insignificant fly.
http://img314.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ult05p214tz.jpg


And the U.Cap can go toe to toe with U.Hulk myth has ended.


So were are the U.Cap can go toe to toe with U.Hulk supporters now.



LOL Outside from the circumstances U.Cap got "owned" and had to be saved and was treated like non-existent in there rematch.

I swear these U.Cap fanboy's exaggerate way to much.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
So were are the U.Cap can go toe to toe with U.Hulk supporters now.



LOL Outside from the circumstances U.Cap got "owned" and had to be saved and was treated like non-existent in there rematch.

I swear these U.Cap fanboy's exaggerate way to much.

He can't go toe to toe..... but he can hold his own for a time. Hulk threw Ult Cap thats it. he picked him up and threw him.....

ult. cap would beat 616 spiderman, if 616 spiderman get beaten by 616 cap as most people seem to think being that ult. Cap fight dirty uses guns is stronger, faster and more durable with the only advantage to 616 cap is his fighting skill then IMO ult cap > 616 spiderman

Originally posted by darth fury
He can't go toe to toe..... but he can hold his own for a time. Hulk threw Ult Cap thats it. he picked him up and threw him.....

ult. cap would beat 616 spiderman, if 616 spiderman get beaten by 616 cap as most people seem to think being that ult. Cap fight dirty uses guns is stronger, faster and more durable with the only advantage to 616 cap is his fighting skill then IMO ult cap > 616 spiderman




He only held his own with a U.Hulk who was hurt bad from Iroman to the point that U.Hulk was puking his guts out. Then with a last ditch attack he's sent out of a very high building to crash on the ground.

The Wasp calms him down. Which lowers his power extremely.

Than a tank falls on him from the sky to boot.

Then U.Cap holds his own for a bit........LOL. Thats with the help of others major circumstances, so thats not even hold his own since there are others......................period.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
He only held his own with a U.Hulk who was hurt bad from Iroman to the point that U.Hulk was puking his guts out. Then with a last ditch attack he's sent out of a very high building to crash on the ground.

The Wasp calms him down. Which lowers his power extremely.

Than a tank falls on him from the sky to boot.

Then U.Cap holds his own for a bit........LOL. Thats with the help of others major circumstances, so thats not even hold his own since there are others......................period.

He is alone for a period and he obviously is THAT hurt considering he pummels Thor seconds later.... Throwing up makes him weaker now?

Hulk says the attack just makes him hornier......
LOL

Wasp doesn't calm him down .... she strips for him to try and make him follow her

Originally posted by darth fury
He can't go toe to toe..... but he can hold his own for a time. Hulk threw Ult Cap thats it. he picked him up and threw him.....

ult. cap would beat 616 spiderman, if 616 spiderman get beaten by 616 cap as most people seem to think being that ult. Cap fight dirty uses guns is stronger, faster and more durable with the only advantage to 616 cap is his fighting skill then IMO ult cap > 616 spiderman




Also faster?

Again what proof. Cap has played in energy beams and even true bullet time as in get ahead of bullets. To even ran close to 60 mph.

Again you say things without actually knowing what your talking about. Plus Cap has the advantage on 616 Spiderman due to skill not stats.

In this fight 616 Spiderman stats are superior in every way against U.Cap. Despite U.Cap being a bit stronger then 616 Cap. Because of his lower skills, I don't see him defeating 616 Spiderman.

Originally posted by darth fury
He is alone for a period and he obviously is THAT hurt considering he pummels Thor seconds later.... Throwing up makes him weaker now?

Hulk says the attack just makes him hornier......
LOL

Wasp doesn't calm him down .... she strips for him to try and make him follow her


Which makes him stop being angry. Yes he's is alone so now you pretend the other events didn't occur? No but they did occur.

Throwing up and stunned for Ironman do to a last ditch attack show's he was affected. LOL

Originally posted by Daredevil1
U.Cap is yelling squelling like a girl at the end of that scan. And thats supposed to prove he wins..........LOL

These U.Cap fans crack me up.

The rest of that fight. Notice U.Thor has to save U.Cap. "shruggs"
http://img307.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ult05p161ts.jpg
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/Genis101/Ultimate%20Captain%20America/5-vstheHulk5.jpg
Here's there rematch notice U.Cap gets treated like a insignificant fly.
http://img314.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ult05p214tz.jpg


And the U.Cap can go toe to toe with U.Hulk myth has ended.


Yeah U.Cap can definitely hold his own against U.Hulk LOL the scans above clearly show this.LOL

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Also faster?

Again what proof. Cap has played in energy beams and even true bullet time as in get ahead of bullets. To even ran close to 60 mph.

Again you say things without actually knowing what your talking about. Plus Cap has the advantage on 616 Spiderman due to skill not stats.

In this fight 616 Spiderman stats are superior in every way against U.Cap. Despite U.Cap being a bit stronger then 616 Cap. Because of his lower skills, I don't see him defeating 616 Spiderman.

OK. on a side note who do you think would win between Ult. Cap and 616 Cap?

I see him defeating 616 spiderman because he holds various advantages that 616 cap doesn't and he'll fight dirty and erm Cap can run as fast as a bullet? I'd like to see some proof not saying i don't believe you but i haven't seen it.
considering a bullets speed ranges from 180-1220 m/s ...... which would make cap's acceleration MUCH faster than 60 MPH which if true is very damn impressive.

Originally posted by darth fury
OK. on a side note who do you think would win between Ult. Cap and 616 Cap?

I see him defeating 616 spiderman because he holds various advantages that 616 cap doesn't and he'll fight dirty and erm Cap can run as fast as a bullet? I'd like to see some proof not saying i don't believe you but i haven't seen it.
considering a bullets speed ranges from 180-1220 m/s ...... which would make cap's acceleration MUCH faster than 60 MPH which if true is very damn impressive.



And I don't see him defeating 616 spiderman as he isn't as fast as or as agile as 616 Cap. Eh him fighting dirty doesn't mean much considering most of Spidey's villain do the dirty bit. So its not really much of a point.

Cap didn't really run as he leaped in front of the bullets. No matter as thats more a high end feat for him anyhow. Which isn't the standard his regular feats are more as him playing in bullets and dodging bullets even at close range. Or playing in energy beans in zero gravity.

But if you want a scan you'll have to wait as I'll post it later on.

As for your question I see 616 Cap defeating U.Cap.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Even better-but I had to make my point against OneDumbG0, as he was coming out with all these claims about Spiderman being beaten loads of times by Kingpin h2h, then coming up with 2 scans showing them fighting as equals (Spiderman having his arm in a sling in one scan) When did I say that Kingpin has beaten Spiderman loads of times?
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah U.Cap can definitely hold his own against U.Hulk LOL the scans above clearly show this.LOL Does it hurt to embarass yourself on a post-by-post basis? Because it's starting to hurt just watching you spout off stuff like 616 Cap one-shots Korvac, or Ult. Abom never really hits Ult. Cap or that Ult. Wasp flashing Ult. Hulk sucks all of Ult. Hulk's strength away. Bejeezus. Reality check please. You act as if Ult. Cap used to beat you up in school or something. Calm down, kid.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
When did I say that Kingpin has beaten Spiderman loads of times?
Does it hurt to embarass yourself on a post-by-post basis? Because it's starting to hurt just watching you spout off stuff like 616 Cap one-shots Korvac, or Ult. Abom never really hits Ult. Cap or that Ult. Wasp flashing Ult. Hulk sucks all of Ult. Hulk's strength away. Bejeezus. Reality check please. You act as if Ult. Cap used to beat you up in school or something. Calm down, kid.


Shut up and respond to our post. You still haven't proven that Ult Cap wins. You are just focusing on side issues because you haven't proven a damn thing.


So Ult Abom hit Ult Cap with full force? Thats your opinion guess what, it proves nothing but the reason why it proves nothing has already been explained.

So Daredevil1 said he one-shotted Korvac? Don't remember him saying it, but guess what Spiderman still wins.

Hell D1 never said that Wasp sucked Hulks strength away, the simple point being made is that Ult Hulk took one hell of a battering before hand so that obvously helped Ult Cap. I mean you know Tony Starks rammed Ult Hulk into grand central station at full speed?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Shut up and respond to our post. You still haven't proven that Ult Cap wins. You are just focusing on side issues because you haven't proven a damn thing.


So Ult Abom hit Ult Cap with full force? Thats your opinion guess what, it proves nothing but the reason why it proves nothing has already been explained.

So Daredevil1 said he one-shotted Korvac? Don't remember him saying it, but guess what Spiderman still wins. What post? I already responded to your posts and lost all faith in your reasoning ability when you actually tried to argue that Ult. Abom never really hit Ult. Cap. There is no side issue here, you guys act as if 616 Spiderman is vastly superior to Ult. Cap in all physical respects. I gave you dozens of chances to prove this and nobody has. Ult. Cap's physical stats rival 616 Spidey's.

Ult. Cap has a greater tactical mind and arguably better fighting skills. While he doesn't have the experience or intimate knowledge that 616 Cap does, Ult. Cap's physicality helps even the odds greatly. Considering he can take a pounding from the likes of Ult. Hulk, Herr Kleiser and Ult. Abomination and take out foes like Herr Klesier and Ult. Juggernaut with straight up H2H, I really don't understand where this incredulity comes from. And I am equally baffled by where this intense hatred for Ult. Cap comes from.

What are you, French?

I mean seriously, if you want to convince me that 616 Spiderman is vastly superior to Ult. Cap, then try it again, show me some 616 Spidey feats that are vastly superior to those on-panel Ult. Cap feats below:

1) Taking a full-blown double-fist piledriver into the ground from a class 100 like Ult. Abomination and getting up immediately thereafter. No rolling with the blow.

2) Diving straight into water from 600 feet and being completely unharmed (which is essentially concrete at that height, so you can show him falling onto concrete headfirst without being harmed as proof too).

3) Taking half a pint of tetrodotoxin (.0008 grams injected kills an ordinary man, which means he took more than a million times over the lethal dose) and still fighting and struggling against super soldiers.

4) One-shotting a class 100 like Ult. Juggernaut with a single blow. No prior fighting, no outside interference. Just a single blow.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What post? I already responded to your posts and lost all faith in your reasoning ability when you actually tried to argue that Ult. Abom never really hit Ult. Cap. There is no side issue here, you guys act as if 616 Spiderman is vastly superior to Ult. Cap in all physical respects. I gave you dozens of chances to prove this and nobody has. Ult. Cap's physical stats rival 616 Spidey's.

Ult. Cap has a greater tactical mind and arguably better fighting skills. While he doesn't have the experience or intimate knowledge that 616 Cap does, Ult. Cap's physicality helps even the odds greatly. Considering he can take a pounding from the likes of Ult. Hulk, Herr Kleiser and Ult. Abomination and take out foes like Herr Klesier and Ult. Juggernaut with straight up H2H, I really don't understand where this incredulity comes from. And I am equally baffled by where this intense hatred for Ult. Cap comes from.

What are you, French?


*sigh* I'll respond to your post tomorrow. Look even if Cap took a full force punch from Ult Abom it don't prove a god damn thing. If you were paying attention you would know the reason why. Maybe I will go into detail how your reasoning is completely faulty tomorrow.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I mean seriously, if you want to convince me that 616 Spiderman is vastly superior to Ult. Cap, then try it again, show me some 616 Spidey feats that are vastly superior to those on-panel Ult. Cap feats below:

1) Taking a full-blown double-fist piledriver into the ground from a class 100 like Ult. Abomination and getting up immediately thereafter. No rolling with the blow.

2) Diving straight into water from 600 feet and being completely unharmed (which is essentially concrete at that height, so you can show him falling onto concrete headfirst without being harmed as proof too).

3) Taking half a pint of tetrodotoxin (.0008 grams injected kills an ordinary man, which means he took more than a million times over the lethal dose) and still fighting and struggling against super soldiers.

4) One-shotting a class 100 like Ult. Juggernaut with a single blow. No prior fighting, no outside interference. Just a single blow.


All that can be easily rebutted and probably has already I mean I already told you a human has survived a massive fall into water from comparable height but its like you have selective amnesia.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*Hell D1 never said that Wasp sucked Hulks strength away, the simple point being made is that Ult Hulk took one hell of a battering before hand so that obvously helped Ult Cap. I mean you know Tony Starks rammed Ult Hulk into grand central station at full speed? Originally posted by Daredevil1
The Wasp calms him down. Which lowers his power extremely.I don't make this sh1t up.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*sigh* I'll respond to your post tomorrow. Look even if Cap took a full force punch from Ult Abom it don't prove a god damn thing. If you were paying attention you would know the reason why. Maybe I will go into detail how your reasoning is completely faulty tomorrow.


All that can be easily rebutted and probably has already I mean I already told you a human has survived a massive fall into water from comparable height but its like you have selective amnesia.You go do that, Frenchie. Don't bother with my reasoning. Just post 616 Spidey scans are vastly superior to the Ult. Cap scans I presented. Go for it. I can only ask so many times.

Rebut what? It's on-panel. Just show me 616 Spidey scans that are vastly superior. Jesus, is it really that hard to do that?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't make this sh1t up.

What so Hulk doesnt get weaker when he gets calm?



Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You go do that, Frenchie. Don't bother with my reasoning. Just post 616 Spidey scans are vastly superior to the Ult. Cap scans I presented. Go for it. I can only ask so many times.

Rebut what? It's on-panel. Just show me 616 Spidey scans that are vastly superior. Jesus, is it really that hard to do that?

Bloody hell there are 616 Caps scans that are comparable to that. Hasn't somebody posted scans of Cap taking a full force punch from a class80 Iron Man?

Spider-Man takes the majority here. I can't see Ult. Cap beating 616 SM or putting up a really great fight without the the vast knowledge that 616 Cap has on Spidey's abilities.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What so Hulk doesnt get weaker when he gets calm?1) I'm pretty sure that it is more arguable that seeing a nice pair gets him more excited, more horny and thus more agitated. And we know that a horny Ult. Hulk is still effing strong because he screams he's horny when he's attacking Manhattan and looking for Betty before the fight with the Ultimates. And guess what... he was not calm then.

2) "What so Hulk doesnt get stronger when he gets angry?"

Why am I saying this? Because Ult. Cap drops a tank on his head after Ult. Wasp distracts him and he's pretty pissed at that point. Pissed enough to have the strength to rip through the tank like it's paper.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Bloody hell there are 616 Caps scans that are comparable to that. Hasn't somebody posted scans of Cap taking a full force punch from a class80 Iron Man? Cap getting knocked around by his friend Iron Man in Civil War doesn't compare to Ult. Abomination double fist pounding his enemy Ult. Cap. And I'm not even asking for comparable scans for 616 Cap. I'm asking for vastly superior scans from 616 Spidey. Get it through your head. The best people can do is show some reasonably comparable scans. At least they were trying though. You keep trying to derail the thread and mold this debate to the countours of your own wishes, ignore what other people say and miscontrue what I am asking for.

It's easy: "Show me scans of 616 Spidey that are vastly superior to Ult. Cap's on-panel feats." I'll keep asking, you all can keep dodging.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Spider-Man takes the majority here. I can't see Ult. Cap beating 616 SM or putting up a really great fight without the the vast knowledge that 616 Cap has on Spidey's abilities. Well, Ult. Cap gets basic knowledge as per forum rules. He also knows and has been debriefed about Ult. Spiderman from SHIELD. So that'd allow him even greater knowledge through simple inference. But it is absolutely true that Ult. Cap does not have 616 Cap's intimate knowledge. That is an unbelievably huge advantage that he does not possess at all. Neither does Ult. Cap get the benefit of a force absorbing shield. Even furthermore, 616 Spidey would not engage in any CIS hero worshipping during the fight.

Nonetheless, Ult. Cap's physical stats rival 616 Spidey's. Unlike 616 Cap, he can keep up with 616 Spidey in terms of strength and durability. Which is amply supported by his fights with Ult. Hulk, Herr Kleiser, Ult. Juggernaut, Ult. Abomination, etc. He also still possesses a vastly superior tactical mind and arguably has better fighting skills. That and he fights dirty with standard equipment that 616 Cap wouldn't use. Grenades and such.

So as much as you take away the handicap of intimate fighting knowledge. Ult. Cap's physicality evens it back up. And when you have a foe whose fighting skills are comparable and probably better... AND a clearly superior tactical mind... AND comparable physical stats... you'll probably end up losing in a close fight. That's my thinking. Therefore:

Ult. Cap 6/10. Just about. I could live with a 5/10 split too.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I mean seriously, if you want to convince me that 616 Spiderman is vastly superior to Ult. Cap, then try it again, show me some 616 Spidey feats that are vastly superior to those on-panel Ult. Cap feats below:

1) Taking a full-blown double-fist piledriver into the ground from a class 100 like Ult. Abomination and getting up immediately thereafter. No rolling with the blow.

4) One-shotting a class 100 like Ult. Juggernaut with a single blow. No prior fighting, no outside interference. Just a single blow.

I'm not countering your post right now, but I do have a couple things to say.

I really like Ult. Cap. I think he's pretty badass and hardcore. His willpower alone is fantastic and lets him hang with people that he shouldn't.

However, I think it's pretty safe to say that Ult. Abom wasn't hitting him anywhere near full-force. My reasoning? Because it appeared to be pretty well-established between the members of the Liberators that Captain America would be left for Colonel Abdul al-Rahman to fight. Abom was merely softening him up and setting up the stage for the fight between the two super soldiers.

But hey, that's my interpretation. I don't want to tell you how to interpret it. Just saying that it seems VERY likely that this was the case.

Also. There is no evidence whatsoever to say that Ult. Cap one-shot Ult. Juggernaut. He kicked him through a wall. End of story. He probably fell outside the building or something. Cap apparently thought it best to take him out of the fight quickly. So he did. We don't know what happned to Juggy. While he is nowhere near the level of his 616 counterpart, he's still extremely powerful. It would be utterly ridiculous for anyone to think that Cap actually KOed him with that kick.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

Yeah. Ult. Abom looks like he's going easy on Ult. Cap here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029

I get what you're saying and it's possible he kinda just gave him "a half-force blow." But that's really reaching and not very likely. Why? Fact is, we've seen Ult. Cap get pounded on by foes like Ult. Hulk and Herr Kleiser already. We've seen him fight through SHIELD supersoldiers while poisoned to an unbelievable degree. It's very much more likely that Ult. Abomination hit him hard, because in order to soften him up for Abdul, he'd have to hit him hard. And considering Ult. Abomination's stance and the obvious illustration and his own words, "This is gonna hurt." Yeah...

I know you've read Ult. X-Men. You're a big fan of Ult. Colossus. Ult. Juggernaut took on Ult. Colossus and knocked him out in their first encounter. Since when does Ult. Juggernaut get put out of commission from falling out of a building? And if he doesn't get knocked out from falling out of a building... then what happens? Regular ole SHIELD agents come in nonchalantly and handcuff him? I mean, even when you guys ignore the fact that Ult. Cap's kick makes Ult. Juggernaut go flying horizontally through a wall (which is impressive on its own)... you reaaalllllyyyy have to stretch to think that Ult. Juggernaut was either: 1) knocked out from a subsequent fall; or 2) regular SHIELD agents subdue him off-panel. It's an obvious illustration and depiction, Ult. Cap takes out Ult. Juggernaut. Apply Ockham's Razor guys. If it's easier to explain things one way without having to strain, then that's probably the right interpretation. What's so incredibly ridiculous about him taking out a foe like Ult. Juggernaut? He's gone H2H with Ult. Hulk and knocked him out briefly. He took on Herr Kleiser and put him down for a spell. He held up trees that were crushing military trucks. He kicks the utter crap out of SHIELD supersoldiers WHILE poisoned to the Nth degree. He escapes the grip of Chinese supersoldiers who friggin toppled the Statue of Liberty. What's so ridiculous? I mean just look at it:

Originally posted by darth fury
He can't go toe to toe..... but he can hold his own for a time. Hulk threw Ult Cap thats it. he picked him up and threw him.....

ult. cap would beat 616 spiderman, if 616 spiderman get beaten by 616 cap as most people seem to think being that ult. Cap fight dirty uses guns is stronger, faster and more durable with the only advantage to 616 cap is his fighting skill then IMO ult cap > 616 spiderman



Totally agree, ultimate cap would thrash 616 spiderman. By the way good scans and that proved a lot to me. He took down and fought top tiers and giant man is a top tier even though people hate to admit it.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And I don't see him defeating 616 spiderman as he isn't as fast as or as agile as 616 Cap. Eh him fighting dirty doesn't mean much considering most of Spidey's villain do the dirty bit. So its not really much of a point.

Cap didn't really run as he leaped in front of the bullets. No matter as thats more a high end feat for him anyhow. Which isn't the standard his regular feats are more as him playing in bullets and dodging bullets even at close range. Or playing in energy beans in zero gravity.

But if you want a scan you'll have to wait as I'll post it later on.

As for your question I see 616 Cap defeating U.Cap.

Well you need to think about this, Spiderman has been owned by cap, silver samurai, wolverine, elektra, blade, daredevil, black panther, night crawler, king pin, x23 (she basically out dued him the entire fight with agility, speed, etc.. made him look like a da** chump and could have killed him with her claws to his throat), sabertooth. I can keep going. I can see cap name being upon this list if they ever met. Ult cap would mud stomp him.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Spider-Man takes the majority here. I can't see Ult. Cap beating 616 SM or putting up a really great fight without the the vast knowledge that 616 Cap has on Spidey's abilities.

You cant see noone beating spiderman. You said that spiderman would walk all over wolverine, someone that has the ability to keep up with spiderman and one shot him.

Another stupid spite thread. Any version of Spidey wins vs. any version of CA 10/10.

I would say 6-7 out of 10.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Cap getting knocked around by his friend Iron Man in Civil War doesn't compare to Ult. Abomination double fist pounding his enemy Ult. Cap.

Im not talking about civil war you. If Cap can take a shot from a bloodlusted class 80 Iron Man an upgraded 616 Spiderman can take more get it though your head.

Again our point about Ult Hulk, it was impressive but do you undertand that before Ult Hulk fought Ult Cap he was:

smashed into grand central station at full speed.
shot at with lasers from Iron Man
hit with a neural inhibitor
then hit so hard he was sent flying.
then a tank landed on him.

I dont know why but I think that might have helped Ult Cap. I dont care wether he survived full force punch from Ult Abom its obvoulsy a high showing. Owl is alot less stronger than Ult Abom and his punches still hurt, stop looking at the high showings.

Why the hell do I need to have vastly superior scans of 616 Spiderman? Hes strong enough to hurt him and most likely will hardly get hit by Ult Cap. Ult Caps durability will keep him in the fight if he breaks out the webbing hes ****ed.

We also need to take into account that Ult Thor got beaten by Ult Hulk Cap couldn't take him down on his own, which seems to mean looking at things in context it was a high showing for Ult Cap.

If you're talking about the mind-f'ed Iron Man and the Cap who is rolling with the blows feat, then you really are reaching even further. You can't roll with a blow when you're getting double-fist pounded into the ground by a class 100+. And yet again, you still dodge the obvious question... "Is 616 Spidey vastly superior to Ult. Cap physically?" All you have to do is show me strength, durability and stamina feats that clearly and utterly surpass Ult. Cap's. And I will concede that 616 Spidey would handily beat Ult. Cap. That's it! That's all! I've asked for this, what.... 8 times in this thread?! You guys earn yourself a B+ in dodging. That's for utter persistency, whether or not it is laced with ignorance. If the dodging wasn't so obvious to everyone else reading this thread, you might get a A-.

The fact is, you guys have tried undermining the Ult. Hulk fight, the weight room scene, the Ult. Spiderman wrestling scene, the Ult. Goblin fight, the Ult. Juggernaut feat, the tree feat, the Ult. Abom feat, etc. And while you make points that are arguable, they are strained. So strained: "Oh Ult. Wasp sucked all the strength away from Ult. Hulk, even though he's ripping through a reinforced tank," "Oh, Ult. Cap works out with small weights, even though he articulates the reason why he's there and a regular neighborhood gym would never be equipped with heavier weight," "Oh, Ult. Spiderman wasn't really wrestling despite the clear depiction of them struggling, straining and kicking up turf against each other," "Oh, Ult. Juggernaut shouldn't be knocked out, SHIELD agents must have subdued him another way, completely ignoring the fact that Ult. Cap sends him flying through a wall anyway," "Oh, that tree doesn't look to weigh more than a ton even though it's completely crushing a military truck and it's width is wider than 3 men," "Oh, Ult. Abom never really hit Ult. Cap, even though that's exactly what's on-panel, he must have been going easy on him." All these feats are more easily explained as they are illustrated for what they are.

Past these ridiculous excuses you guys offer, you guys haven't even touched the the Herr Kleiser fight, the 600 ft drop feat, the tetradotoxin feat, the kicking the crap out of SHIELD supersoldiers feat while poisoned, or the wrestling away from Chinese supersoldiers feat. You can't come up with a single feat scan that shows 616 Spidey to be clearly superior than ANY of Ult. Cap's. You show comparable scans and that's it. You keep trying to dodge and say, oh well, 616 Cap has comparable scans... but 616 Cap really doesn't have comparable scans and even if he does, THAT IS COMPLETELY BESIDES THE POINT. You guys have failed on every level to show that 616 Spidey is clearly and vastly superior to Ult. Cap, physically speaking. 616. Spidey is neither vastly superior in strength, not vastly superior in stamina, nor vastly superior in durability (ESPECIALLY durability).

If he is not clearly physically superior, then they rival each other physically. And when you add in a vastly superior tactical mind, arguably better fighting skills and a play-dirty-for-keeps attitude for Ult. Cap, then it starts looking bad for 616 Spidey, despite his webs. It's that simple. You want to rebut this argument, then show me scans where 616 Spidey is clearly vastly his physical superior. 616 Spidey. 616 Spidey. 616 Spidey. I'll say it one more time to get it through to you guys, 616 Spidey.

On the last point, Ult. Thor got beat by a Ult. Hulk who was further enraged. One thing that is able to knock him out the first time, would be insufficient the next, if his anger pumped up his strength. If you reread Ultimates #5, you would know that Ult. Hulk kept getting stronger and stronger the more he became agitated. I mean... they say that on-panel. You're not ignorant. You know as god damn well as I do that Ult. Hulk's strength and power fluctuates massively between panels:

Jesus H Christ why did you have to make a fing long post for something so simple? Always complicating things.

What really irritating you keep bringing up points that have been dealt with.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you're talking about the mind-f'ed Iron Man and the Cap who is rolling with the blows feat, then you really are reaching even further.


He didn't roll with the punch.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You can't roll with a blow when you're getting double-fist pounded into the ground by a class 100+.


I ALREADY said it proves nothing because its a high showing.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

And yet again, you still dodge the obvious question... "Is 616 Spidey vastly superior to Ult. Cap physically?" All you have to do is show me strength, durability and stamina feats that clearly and utterly surpass Ult. Cap's. And I will concede that 616 Spidey would handily beat Ult. Cap. That's it! That's all! I've asked for this, what.... 8 times in this thread?! You guys earn yourself a B+ in dodging. That's for utter persistency, whether or not it is laced with ignorance. If the dodging wasn't so obvious to everyone else reading this thread, you might get a A-.

PAY ATTENTION FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! I said we dont have to prove anything....because we know that he is strong enough to hurt Ult Cap and we know hes fast enough to dodge Ultimate Cap all day, plus he has webbing. Did you see the post did you comprehend it??

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The fact is, you guys have tried undermining the Ult. Hulk fight, the weight room scene, the Ult. Spiderman wrestling scene,

No we didn't because 616 Spiderman >>> Ult Spiderman. If Ult Cap can wrestle Ult Spiderman it proves nothing

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

the Ult. Goblin fight,

So what???? Is he as fast as 616 Spiderman?


Originally posted by OneDumbG0

the Ult. Juggernaut feat,

What so he can one-shot class 100s all the time can he? Is he as fast as Spiderman, so spiderman is just gonna stand there and get one-shoted.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

the tree feat,


I ALREADY EXPLAINED THREE MILLION TIMES ALREADY STREET LEVEL CHARACTERS HAVE LIFTED UP TREES. IT PROVES NOTHING SO STOP USING IT!


Originally posted by OneDumbG0

the Ult. Abom feat, etc. And while you make points that are arguable, they are strained. So strained: "Oh Ult. Wasp sucked all the strength away from Ult. Hulk, even though he's ripping through a reinforced tank," "Oh, Ult. Cap works out with small weights, even though he articulates the reason why he's there and a regular neighborhood gym would never be equipped with heavier weight," "Oh, Ult. Spiderman wasn't really wrestling despite the clear depiction of them struggling, straining and kicking up turf against each other," "Oh, Ult. Juggernaut shouldn't be knocked out, SHIELD agents must have subdued him another way, completely ignoring the fact that Ult. Cap sends him flying through a wall anyway," "Oh, that tree doesn't look to weigh more than a ton even though it's completely crushing a military truck and it's width is wider than 3 men," "Oh, Ult. Abom never really hit Ult. Cap, even though that's exactly what's on-panel, he must have been going easy on him." All these feats are more easily explained as they are illustrated for what they are.


Past these ridiculous excuses you guys offer, you guys haven't even touched the the Herr Kleiser fight, the 600 ft drop feat, the tetradotoxin feat, the kicking the crap out of SHIELD supersoldiers feat while poisoned, or the wrestling away from Chinese supersoldiers feat. You can't come up with a single feat scan that shows 616 Spidey to be clearly superior than ANY of Ult. Cap's. You show comparable scans and that's it. You keep trying to dodge and say, oh well, 616 Cap has comparable scans... but 616 Cap really doesn't have comparable scans and even if he does, THAT IS COMPLETELY BESIDES THE POINT. You guys have failed on every level to show that 616 Spidey is clearly and vastly superior to Ult. Cap, physically speaking. 616. Spidey is neither vastly superior in strength, not vastly superior in stamina, nor vastly superior in durability (ESPECIALLY durability).

If he is not clearly physically superior, then they rival each other physically. And when you add in a vastly superior tactical mind, arguably better fighting skills and a play-dirty-for-keeps attitude for Ult. Cap, then it starts looking bad for 616 Spidey, despite his webs. It's that simple. You want to rebut this argument, then show me scans where 616 Spidey is clearly vastly his physical superior. 616 Spidey. 616 Spidey. 616 Spidey. I'll say it one more time to get it through to you guys, 616 Spidey.

On the last point, Ult. Thor got beat by a Ult. Hulk who was further enraged. One thing that is able to knock him out the first time, would be insufficient the next, if his anger pumped up his strength. If you reread Ultimates #5, you would know that Ult. Hulk kept getting stronger and stronger the more he became agitated. I mean... they say that on-panel. You're not ignorant. You know as god damn well as I do that Ult. Hulk's strength and power fluctuates massively between panels:

I ALREADY EXPLAINED HOW A NORMAL HUMAN HAS DIVED INTO WATER FROM ABOUT THE SAME HEIGHT AS ULT CAP SO STOP USING IT.

I'll explain again Spiderman does not need to be as tough or strong as Ult Cap, he fast enough to dodge him and pound him into submission. If Spiderman breaks out the webbing Ult Cap is ****ed

Ok hUlk got stronger but guess what???? Ult Cap got hurt by punches by the Owl who is a street level characters so eventhough Ult Cap has impressive feats he can still get hurt by street levelers. Furthermore I dont even know what your point about Ult Thor is. Ult Thor is comparable to Ult Hulk in power but Ult Cap couldn't take him down, which means Ult cap cant always take people that powerful.

Im pretty sure Ult cap has fought people alot weaker than class 100 and not one-shoted them so we cant assume that Ult Cap is going to do that with 616 Spiderman.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10648636



LOL this link actually helps worsen your case especially with Wasp calming him down.

So they acknowledge he seems to get stronger. That mean they noticed he was at a weaker level with U.Cap. And he got much stronger with his fight with U.Thor.


The more we talk about U.Cap feat with U.Hulk the lesser impressive it becomes.