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Can the combined Jedi/Sith take down the cyborg saber monster?

just maul could do it.

He's the most dangerous Sith apprentice evah.

That is all that needs be said.

yea, and he beat the most skilled person ever. That is pretty much all that grevious has going for him except brute strength.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
yea, and he beat the most skilled person ever. That is pretty much all that grevious has going for him except brute strength.

maul is not the greatest thing ever. and you guys need to look at this from all angles.

My conclusion: grevous wins

Reasons:

1) both he and anakin are cocky and head strong and severely lacking in the "team work" departments, thus would not support eachother in battle.

2) maul has a saber staff and uses juyo so there would be no room for anakin to use his shien without them carving eachother up before they can get to grevous.

3) maul is no where near grevous who could go toes to toe with dooku.

4)grevous made dooku hard pressed to defeat him, Aotc anakin was swept aside by dooku.

5) the feats of cw grevous especially taking out masters, and i think at one point he took out over 3 or 4 jedi at once puts him FAR above the AOTC anakin and far above maul.

Decision: grevous wins 9/10

Maul woudl ****ing pwn him, dude. Do you even know who Anoon Bandaras is? He's like Tony Bandaras except ten tiems more uber. He's the most technically skilled over any Jedi evah. He could probably solo the LotF Jedi with his technica skilllllsssssssssss alone.

GG stands no chance. He's simply outmatched. There's no way he's beating the deadliest apprentice in Sith history.

xD lolz... Anoon Bondara can effortlessly defeat DE Sidious and NJO Luke together by twitching his finger. He is truly uber.

But now, seriously, I think GG- despite being far cooler than Maul and Anakin- would most likely lose to the combined team of them. Anakin, individually, was able to put up a significant fight against Dooku in AotC (as in he wasn't totally curbstomped in 5 seconds), and even forced him back for a very short period- he's clearly formidable. Meanwhile, Maul was a very tough lightsaber combatant- as multiple people, such as Gideon and D Power proved to me- and had mastery of multiple forms. While I don't think any would stand a chance against him individually, together, they can take him. Definetly no easy defeat, though, there's always a significant chance he could kill one of them.

Meanwhile, as MoC correctly pointed out, they are extremely unlikely to be a well coordinated team. Also, GG's taking of four intimidated, tired masters/knights was still highly impressive; as I've clarified, he is well beyond AotC Anakin and also probably above Maul, but together, they can take him.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Maul woudl ****ing pwn him, dude. Do you even know who Anoon Bandaras is? He's like Tony Bandaras except ten tiems more uber. He's the most technically skilled over any Jedi evah. He could probably solo the LotF Jedi with his technica skilllllsssssssssss alone.

GG stands no chance. He's simply outmatched. There's no way he's beating the deadliest apprentice in Sith history.

as i have stated before anoon was good IN HIS TIME but the jedi council had improved since then

Originally posted by Man of Christ
as i have stated before anoon was good IN HIS TIME but the jedi council had improved since then

Well it's true it has improved but it's also true that it's progressively gotten far worse in periods as well.

?

but maul has the force. If the power of the death star is insignificant next to the power of the foce, then how much more so insignificant is the power of one super-uber android?

your wrong because grevious is awesome bangin

Originally posted by truejedi
but maul has the force. If the power of the death star is insignificant next to the power of the foce, then how much more so insignificant is the power of one super-uber android?

your premise is flawed because simply having the force doesnt mean you beat GG because if it were so he wouldnt have killed so many jedi. the point is GG is the ultimate programmable anti-jedi machine who has succeeded in killing jedi

yes but those jedis who greivous killed were not as strong, fast or as skilled as Maul.

also when Greivous fought 4 masters simultaneously they were exhausted, and he has 4 blades to do that with. Maul with his double bladed weapon could have easily taken on 2 of them, and if they were that exhausted then easily defeated them.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
yes but those jedis who greivous killed were not as strong, fast or as skilled as Maul.

also when Greivous fought 4 masters simultaneously they were exhausted, and he has 4 blades to do that with. Maul with his double bladed weapon could have easily taken on 2 of them, and if they were that exhausted then easily defeated them.

can you quantify and substantiate 3 things for me
1) if those masters are actually inferior to maul as you say
2) if so how much weaker the 4 jedi masters are supposed to be than maul
3) how drained they were? were they at 99% 60%, 50% or what?>

Both sides are going about this argument entirely wrong.

On the one hand, Darth Maul is "one of the most dangerous Sith apprentices in history", a Sith Lord whose training regimen is lightyears beyond anything we've ever seen -- certainly beyond Grievous's own -- to the point that he has "pushed his physical and Force assisted abilities to the utmost", and of course, he is a master of Juyo, a form that requires its masters to be "high end masters of multiple forms" -- it enabled him to overcome Anoon Bondara, a Jedi Master whose technical ability exceeds that of the High Council. So to suggest that the Jedi whom Grievous battled are anything approaching Maul's own prodigious prowess has me somewhat skeptical. And then we have Anakin Skywalker, who even as of Attack of the Clones, demonstrated a greater proficiency as a swordsman than his talented master, who actually forced Count Dooku to work for his win.

On the other hand, General Grievous is a cyborg of vast physical proportion. To quote the omniscient narrator "no human being could move remotely as fast as Grievous" and he demonstrates speeds at various points that make his limbs appear "invisible" to Obi-Wan's own eye. So, while Anakin and Maul are both easily capable of augmenting their own reflexes, Grievous has immediately far more speed than they do. Likewise, Grievous is capable of utilizing up to four lightsabers in complete conjunction moving at speeds in excess of twenty strikes per second, and is capable of giving trouble to the Count during sparring sessions. But perhaps the coup de grace is Grievous's analysis computers that allow the general to analyze, mimic, and return in kind maneuvers from all seven forms of combat as demonstrated in his duel with Mace Windu.

However, Count Dooku flat out told Grievous that he would best to withdraw should he face any upper tier Force users without the element of surprise and fear on his side, though Mace Windu himself said in Grievous's favor that the general is "more than a match for most Jedi". Likewise, though both are ferocious opponents, Anakin and Maul aren't likely to be a supremely effective team.

but gideon, dooku didnt have to work for his win, he was just relaxing the whole time. the point of makashi is to let your opponents tire out. which is why he was backing up sometimes in his aotc duel with anakin.
and anakin wasnt all that great by aotc, im sure dooku wouldnt tell GG to avoid an aotc anakin. ROTS anakin is great but not aotc.

besides, mauls saberstaff makes him a terrible partner and increases the chances of accidently cutting anakin up.

GG's computer chip allows him to mimic JUYO not vaapad. to use vaapad you need the force, not technology.

but speaking of technology, with GG's computer chip he could easily pick up on both of thier styles and take advantage of them.\

maul beat anoon bondara before TPM but the rots jedi and aotc jedi had gotten a lot better.

the point being it may not be VERy easy but i see the ever agile GG taking this comfortably

Originally posted by Man of Christ
but gideon, dooku didnt have to work for his win, he was just relaxing the whole time. the point of makashi is to let your opponents tire out.

Incorrect; Count Dooku was toying with Obi-Wan Kenobi, but when Skywalker engaged him a second time in the hangar, the movie's novelization, screenplay, and the Count's own musings in Labyrinth of Evil all conclude that Skywalker had "proven to be a powerful opponent" and while Dooku certainly wasn't unleashing all of his destructive energies against Anakin, he wasn't screwing around with him either.



Anakin was better than Obi-Wan, who was a skilled and talented Jedi even by that time. Anakin was the most prodigious and powerful learner at the Temple.



I already suggested that the two wouldn't exactly be the greatest team ever.



Wrong, he mimicked Vaapad. Not perfectly, but "close enough". Windu's musings and the omniscient narrator confirm it.



Right... I believe I pointed that out. The problem being that computer analysis =/= experience with the form and it doesn't mean that he will automatically be able to wield it to the degree that they do.



Proof? Anoon Bondara's skills as a swordsman were unmatched. Given how Jedi weren't facing Sith or Dark Jedi , I doubt that as a whole the Jedi Order improved other than field tactics and combat experience, not technical prowess.



I remain undecided.

Originally posted by Gideon
Incorrect; Count Dooku was toying with Obi-Wan Kenobi, but when Skywalker engaged him a second time in the hangar, the movie's novelization, screenplay, and the Count's own musings in Labyrinth of Evil all conclude that Skywalker had "proven to be a powerful opponent" and while Dooku certainly wasn't unleashing all of his destructive energies against Anakin, he wasn't screwing around with him either.



Anakin was better than Obi-Wan, who was a skilled and talented Jedi even by that time. Anakin was the most prodigious and powerful learner at the Temple.



I already suggested that the two wouldn't exactly be the greatest team ever.



Wrong, he mimicked Vaapad. Not perfectly, but "close enough". Windu's musings and the omniscient narrator confirm it.



Right... I believe I pointed that out. The problem being that computer analysis =/= experience with the form and it doesn't mean that he will automatically be able to wield it to the degree that they do.



Proof? Anoon Bondara's skills as a swordsman were unmatched. Given how Jedi weren't facing Sith or Dark Jedi , I doubt that as a whole the Jedi Order improved other than field tactics and combat experience, not technical prowess.



I remain undecided.

1)The fact that dooku could have killed him but didnt shows he wasnt taking him seriously at all.
2)Being a most prodigous learner doesnt mean you are a threat to grevous,
lets look at it. anakin hadnt mastered djem so by aotc, and was too cocky to be wise as a deulist. thus in his atoc state he wont put up a fight against grevous, who actually challeneged dooku.
3)vapaad is basically force enhanced juyo, we pretty much argue the same thing from diffrent angles but i wont be pedantic with the terms here.
4)grevous has had extensive training in many lightsber forms so he has the chip and the experience
5)proof, here you go. yoda wa sstated to be the most devastatingly powerful enemy that darkness had ever known which automatically puts him above anoon, and with the jedi on the council not being too far beind yoda in perfromance as seen in the rots movie, we can safely say they would be able to beat anoon and maul.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
1)The fact that dooku could have killed him but didnt shows he wasnt taking him seriously at all.

The movie's novelization, screenplay, and Count Dooku's own thoughts > your observations.



Bullshit. According to the omniscient narrator, there had been moments where the Count was hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg. It's not like he whooped the shit out of Dooku or held his own on numerous occasions.



I appreciate the insight from your apparent intimate knowledge of Vaapad. Meanwhile, I'll take the narrator's word for it.



LOLZ. By the time of his invasion of Coruscant, Grievous had been a cyborg and in the employ of the Confederacy for three years. Maul's two decades > three years. Hell, Anakin's ten years > three years. Maul's training regimen absolutely shits on anything we've seen from the General. Don't even suggest that Grievous's training is as lengthly, demanding, or complete as that of Maul's or Anakin's.



Did I say that Anoon Bondara was more powerful than Yoda? I said that Bondara's technical skill exceeded Yoda's, not power.



Performance? You mean three of them getting utterly curbstomped by Palpatine in roughly 10 to 15 seconds? While the movie's novelization acknowledges numerous times that Masters Tinn, Kolar, and Fisto are among the finest bladesbeings in the Order's history and Lucas's own words that "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor" -- and thus I agree that the Jedi Council is absolutely formidable -- the only two Council members who can be suggested as on par with Yoda are Mace Windu and Anakin Skywalker.



Possibly.

1) my observations dont negate cannon at all, just cause he was a good duelist doesnt mean dooku took him seriously. i can be soooooo good that i dont take a good duelist seriously. and dooku was soooo good that he didnt have to take padawan ani seriously.

2) my point exactly, grevious gave dooku a challenge. but dooku whoped anakin, so grevous would sautee padawan anakin.

3) dude my point is he is training combined with accurate cybernetic, and mathematical techniques. in your effort to minimize grevous' ability you fail to note that going toe to toe with mace windu and even learning vaapad instantly shows how great he is at dueling.

my good sir years of experience doesnt equal win. case in point, dooku was about 3 times as old as anakin but anakin still beat him in rots.

4) why isnt "more powerful" all inclusive including technichal ability?

5) my only point in this observation of he jedi council's progress is to show how the council's development and thier most powerful jedi dawrf anoons prestige greatly if you need examples i will be happy to provide.

Gideon, I'm not gonna get to this debate, but I want to ask you a question;

First of all, I'm not denying Anoon Bondara's prodigious technical skill, but nevertheless, you have that fact that pre-TPM Sidious completely outclassed Maul in terms of saber mastery. And then again, you have the thing that Maul was capable of completely outclassing the most technically skilled lightsaber duelist in the order. Provided Anoon really was better than Yoda in terms of lightsaber skill, then, logically, at the time, Sidious could curbstomp Yoda in a lightsaber duel; however, then again, you have the thing that by the events of RotS, Sidious and Yoda were perfectly evenly matched in lightsaber combat ability. So- unless you think TPM Maul > RotS Sidious in terms of lightsaber ability, how do you explain this stuff?

And then again, you have the fact that TPM Maul was put on his ass by en enraged Padawan. Of course, Maul did defeat TPM Obi-Wan, but still... how come Maul could completely outclass a being of greater technical skill than Yoda and subsequently get put on his ass by a Padawan- albeit a talented one?

I don't know what to make out of this myself. I suppose it's possible that Yoda completely outclassed Anoon in speed or strength... I dunno.

I don't really buy that part about Anoon's skills being second to none. When I read the paragraph it comes from it seems like it is Darsha's thoughts, not absolute facts.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
can you quantify and substantiate 3 things for me
1) if those masters are actually inferior to maul as you say
2) if so how much weaker the 4 jedi masters are supposed to be than maul
3) how drained they were? were they at 99% 60%, 50% or what?>

because Maul outclassed Qui-Gon who was one of the best in the order. iv already mentioned he usually used to draw with Mace when they used to spar. thats on Mace's bio on starwars.com I think.

so Maul is stronger than the vast majority of jedis by a significant amount. I obviously cant give a figure of just how much stronger he is, but out of those jedis in question Ki-Adi-Mundi would be closest to Maul.

I cant give a figure of just how tired those jedis were. I just know Ki-Adi-Mundi said they were already exhausted when he reported the incident to the council.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Gideon, I'm not gonna get to this debate, but I want to ask you a question;

First of all, I'm not denying Anoon Bondara's prodigious technical skill, but nevertheless, you have that fact that pre-TPM Sidious completely outclassed Maul in terms of saber mastery. And then again, you have the thing that Maul was capable of completely outclassing the most technically skilled lightsaber duelist in the order. Provided Anoon really was better than Yoda in terms of lightsaber skill, then, logically, at the time, Sidious could curbstomp Yoda in a lightsaber duel; however, then again, you have the thing that by the events of RotS, Sidious and Yoda were perfectly evenly matched in lightsaber combat ability. So- unless you think TPM Maul > RotS Sidious in terms of lightsaber ability, how do you explain this stuff?

And then again, you have the fact that TPM Maul was put on his ass by en enraged Padawan. Of course, Maul did defeat TPM Obi-Wan, but still... how come Maul could completely outclass a being of greater technical skill than Yoda and subsequently get put on his ass by a Padawan- albeit a talented one?

I don't know what to make out of this myself. I suppose it's possible that Yoda completely outclassed Anoon in speed or strength... I dunno.

your confused here between technical skills and power. Dooku was a much better swordsman than Anakin (technically) but got beat by Anakin in a sword fight.

and i dnt see Sidious technical sword fighting skills, being FAR above Mauls. Maul had mastered Juyo.. there wasnt really nething more for Sidious to teach him in this department. Sidious outclasses Maul though because hes too fast and strong for him.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
your confused here between technical skills and power. Dooku was a much better swordsman than Anakin (technically) but got beat by Anakin in a sword fight.

and i dnt see Sidious technical sword fighting skills, being FAR above Mauls. Maul had mastered Juyo.. there wasnt really nething more for Sidious to teach him in this department. Sidious outclasses Maul though because hes too fast and strong for him.

Sidious was a master of every weapon and every form, as is Yoda (I believe it was stated on Star Wars Insider 62, but I'm far from sure)- Yoda favors Ataru, however, and Sidious, in my opinion, favors Juyo, although it's very much open to debate.

I would agree with you, however- I don't think Sidious was DA SHIT in terms of technical ability- it's very possible that Dooku has more technical skill than he does in terms of lightsaber skill. However, you have it that Sidious is indeed DA SHIT in terms of force-enhanced speed, reflexes, and agility.

Overall, I agree with you- certainly Dooku is far more technically skilled (and I'd say that he is possibly that most refined person in terms of his form of choice we've seen in the PT) than Anakin, but Anakin overpowered him. Physically.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Gideon, I'm not gonna get to this debate, but I want to ask you a question;

Very well.



First, there are two different schools of thought on this: Nai Fohl tells me that Darth Maul was attacked by his master, effortlessly disarmed, and then was taunted with the fact that Sidious had been training a replacement; Maul then retrieved his lightsaber and attacked with renewed vigor (tapping into one's rage can give one an incredible, temporary advantage: i.e. Obi-Wan Kenobi versus Maul, Luke Skywalker versus Vader) and Sidious "barely deflected" the blows before disarming him a second time. The second school of thought is one subscribed by Lightsnake that Sidious was in control the entire time and laid the smackdown on Maul, despite his rage, with a training saber. I've yet to see the source itself, so I don't know which one is accurate.

Second, do not confuse technical ability with overall combat prowess. Kas'im was a swordsman that outclassed Darth Bane in every manner possible, yet still ultimately lost the duel, because Force prowess > technical prowess. I am not suggesting that Anoon Bondara would defeat Yoda in an all out fight or even in a lightsaber duel, but the fact remains that according to the omniscient narrator, Bondara's technical skills with a lightsaber are second to none in the entire Order, and for a Jedi Master whose career exceeds eight centuries, I doubt the last thirteen years of his profession would yield any significant advancement in ability.

Third, "pre-TPM Sidious" would likely be the most talented incarnation of Sidious as a swordsman. After he became Chancellor, he had no time for training or maintaining swordsmanship and had his lightsaber buried in a statue. While his strength in the Force undoubtably increased, thus making him an overall more terrifying combatant, there is nothing to suggest that his technical ability continued to advance. At best, it stayed the same. At worst, it declined.



Don't take it up with me; take it up with the omniscient narrator of Shadow Hunter.



I'm certain that this is a logic trail that brings a smile to your face, but it's irretrievably false. As a technical swordsman, Bondara was unmatched, his skills were more refined than any in the Order. As a combatant, he lacks Yoda's considerably greater Force attunement and mastery, which are even more essential to a warrior in a lightsaber duel.



And as I said, the logic trail you use is false.



By accepting a mentality that accounts for all of the facts.



Several factors you need to consider.

1.) According to the New Essential Guide to Characters and darthsith19, Darth Maul had been injured or weakened prior to the duel and was thus not in full form.

2.) Obi-Wan happened to catch Maul off guard and merely pressed the advantage; his own thoughts in the Essential Guide to the Force make it explicitly clear that he was still losing and that it was a temporary advantage.

3.) Most important of all, Obi-Wan was pissed off. Haven't you watched the movies at all? Emperor Palpatine makes it explicitly clear during Revenge of the Sith and then Return of the Jedi that giving into one's aggressive feelings allows for an incredibly potent (if temporary) advantage over such things. Giving into his rage allowed Anakin Skywalker to become such a formidable opponent that he defeated Count Dooku, Luke Skywalker overpowered Darth Vader -- a Sith Lord whose mastery of the Force, swordsmanship, and physical strength greatly exceeded his own, and thus Obi-Wan with Darth Maul.



Bingo.

Originally posted by Gideon
Very well.



First, there are two different schools of thought on this: Nai Fohl tells me that Darth Maul was attacked by his master, effortlessly disarmed, and then was taunted with the fact that Sidious had been training a replacement; Maul then retrieved his lightsaber and attacked with renewed vigor (tapping into one's rage can give one an incredible, temporary advantage: i.e. Obi-Wan Kenobi versus Maul, Luke Skywalker versus Vader) and Sidious "barely deflected" the blows before disarming him a second time. The second school of thought is one subscribed by Lightsnake that Sidious was in control the entire time and laid the smackdown on Maul, despite his rage, with a training saber. I've yet to see the source itself, so I don't know which one is accurate.

Second, do not confuse technical ability with overall combat prowess. Kas'im was a swordsman that outclassed Darth Bane in every manner possible, yet still ultimately lost the duel, because Force prowess > technical prowess. I am not suggesting that Anoon Bondara would defeat Yoda in an all out fight or even in a lightsaber duel, but the fact remains that according to the omniscient narrator, Bondara's technical skills with a lightsaber are second to none in the entire Order, and for a Jedi Master whose career exceeds eight centuries, I doubt the last thirteen years of his profession would yield any significant advancement in ability.

Third, "pre-TPM Sidious" would likely be the most talented incarnation of Sidious as a swordsman. After he became Chancellor, he had no time for training or maintaining swordsmanship and had his lightsaber buried in a statue. While his strength in the Force undoubtably increased, thus making him an overall more terrifying combatant, there is nothing to suggest that his technical ability continued to advance. At best, it stayed the same. At worst, it declined.



Don't take it up with me; take it up with the omniscient narrator of Shadow Hunter.



I'm certain that this is a logic trail that brings a smile to your face, but it's irretrievably false. As a technical swordsman, Bondara was unmatched, his skills were more refined than any in the Order. As a combatant, he lacks Yoda's considerably greater Force attunement and mastery, which are even more essential to a warrior in a lightsaber duel.



And as I said, the logic trail you use is false.



By accepting a mentality that accounts for all of the facts.



Several factors you need to consider.

1.) According to the New Essential Guide to Characters and darthsith19, Darth Maul had been injured or weakened prior to the duel and was thus not in full form.

2.) Obi-Wan happened to catch Maul off guard and merely pressed the advantage; his own thoughts in the Essential Guide to the Force make it explicitly clear that he was still losing and that it was a temporary advantage.

3.) Most important of all, Obi-Wan was pissed off. Haven't you watched the movies at all? Emperor Palpatine makes it explicitly clear during Revenge of the Sith and then Return of the Jedi that giving into one's aggressive feelings allows for an incredibly potent (if temporary) advantage over such things. Giving into his rage allowed Anakin Skywalker to become such a formidable opponent that he defeated Count Dooku, Luke Skywalker overpowered Darth Vader -- a Sith Lord whose mastery of the Force, swordsmanship, and physical strength greatly exceeded his own, and thus Obi-Wan with Darth Maul.



Bingo.

It all makes sense now!

xD. Seriously, tho, I think Sidious' technically skill possibly declined between the events of TPM and RotS; not having trained in 13 years tends to have that effect. However, there's also the matter that Sidious' forte in lightsaber combat- his speed and agility- are all force-powered, and seeing as Sidious clearly enhanced his force prowess, at least, it's logical to assume that at least his speed could've increased between that point. According to Maul, Sidious was capable of moving his lightsaber at speeds well beyond what he could see; later on, in RotS, Sidious was capable of doing the same to Yoda and Mace in terms of lightsaber combat, as confirmed by the novel.

Gideon do you have a way of quantifying how weakened maul's injuries made him?
was he at 90% 60%........50%?..............?...........
secondly how do we know that maul wasnt using his leg injury to push im forward and give him a boost, you know how masochistic sith can be

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Sidious was a master of every weapon and every form, as is Yoda (I believe it was stated on Star Wars Insider 62,

im sure he was... but Maul was pretty damn close to that (talking technical skill here only folks)..

i mean maybe not a master of every form, but a high level master of multiple forms.. there are only 6 other forms, so logically multiple should cover most of them.

and then he mastered juyo, the deadliest form and combined his juyo mastery with mastery of a single lightsaber, a double bladed lightsaber, and even 2 lightsabers in combat. so Maul had the different weapons covered as well.

so I dnt really see how "Technically" Sidious was Far beyond Maul. Because as you can see, there wasnt much room for Maul to improve... Had Maul survived TPM he most likely would have continued his training concentrating on improving his Force Mastery and connection to the Force. Would have been very interesting to see just how powerful Maul would have become.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Gideon do you have a way of quantifying how weakened maul's injuries made him?

I recall reading that it was bad enough for him not to tell Sidious that he was hurt so wasn't just a scrape or a balck and blue mark.

In TPM? He tears a muscle in his leg escaping - yeah, running away - from Tuskens.

That novel should thrown into the sun.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
im sure he was... but Maul was pretty damn close to that (talking technical skill here only folks)..

i mean maybe not a master of every form, but a high level master of multiple forms.. there are only 6 other forms, so logically multiple should cover most of them.

and then he mastered juyo, the deadliest form and combined his juyo mastery with mastery of a single lightsaber, a double bladed lightsaber, and even 2 lightsabers in combat. so Maul had the different weapons covered as well.

so I dnt really see how "Technically" Sidious was Far beyond Maul. Because as you can see, there wasnt much room for Maul to improve... Had Maul survived TPM he most likely would have continued his training concentrating on improving his Force Mastery and connection to the Force. Would have been very interesting to see just how powerful Maul would have become.

I didn't disagree with Maul not being too far behind the top dogs in terms of technical skill.

Originally posted by Faunus
In TPM? He tears a muscle in his leg escaping - yeah, running away - from Tuskens.

I thought he got hurt during the fight with the tuskens then realized he was hurt while running so he can try and stop Amidala from escaping tattooine.

Something of interest:

It would appear that the passage in question is taken from the perspective of Darsha herself. Also of note is the Maul vs. Anoon duel itself:
Not quite as ridiculous as others have made it out to be, but it's good see things for myself.

And then there's this:
Although he acknowledged Bondara's skill, he believed that a true test in combat would come only from the Order's 'greats.'

While all of this sheds serious doubt on Anoon's status, it doesn't do all that much to Maul's. The rest of the book is basically dedicated to how much of an uberling he is. That said, it would seem now that there're characters - aside from the 'Big Four,' Anakin, and Obi-Wan - in the PT era who would be capable of defeating him in combat. If a TPM Mace Windu or Plo Koon would be considered great in that Order, the likes of Agen Kolar, Sora Bulq, Depa Billaba, and General Grievous might be able to do the same. I'll have to locate the Maul vs. Sidious duel before elaborating on that further, and I'll post the passage when I do.

It isn't the omniscient narrator putting Anoon Bondara on a lower tier than Mace Windu or Plo Koon, it's Maul himself. That doesn't suggest in any way, shape, or form that Koon is superior to Bondara , and we are arguing from technical skill, as the first passage you cited named Bondara "one of the best fighters in the Order" despite how his skill with a lightsaber was "second to none".

Some people apparently don't undrestand the meaning of techincal skill.
Just because a warrior has superior technical skill it does not mean, nor suggests in any sort of way, that he is an actual superior duelist.

For example, LeBron James may have a better technique in dribbling the ball, but that doesn't mean he possesses the ability or the talent necessary to defeat someone like Kobe Bryant one-on-one.

Technical skill does not equal strength, power, speed, potential, nor any of the sort. Plus, these may very well be more relevant on an actual duel than technical skill. Hence, Bondara > Yoda is completely false, since Yoda is his superior in all of the other abilities mentioned above.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
I didn't disagree with Maul not being too far behind the top dogs in terms of technical skill.

oh ok. and I agree with you that Dooku was probably the most technically skilled swordsman out of the PT's top dogs.