Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I thought it was a joke but alas:

Link

The discussion board are full of joke material. I think they are serious, but it's hard to tell sometimes with stuff like this.

On a more serious note, does anyone have a secular reason for practicing abstinence?

Originally posted by chithappens
On a more serious note, does anyone have a secular reason for practicing abstinence?

The human body repulses me. But I suppose that's more of a personal reason than anything else.

Originally posted by chithappens
I thought it was a joke but alas:

Link

The discussion board are full of joke material. I think they are serious, but it's hard to tell sometimes with stuff like this.

On a more serious note, does anyone have a secular reason for practicing abstinence?

The spread of disease, but education is the answer to that problem.

Over population, but birth control and education is the answer to that problem.

So, no I cannot think of a secular reason for people to not do something as natural as sex.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The spread of disease, but education is the answer to that problem.

Over population, but birth control and education is the answer to that problem.

So, no I cannot think of a secular reason for people to not do something as natural as sex. Don't some Buddhists believe in not having sex?


...and the Pope?

What the **** is that?

Originally posted by lord xyz
What the **** is that?

Besides being a classic pedo trick?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Don't some Buddhists believe in not having sex?


...and the Pope?

I don't know what every type of Buddhists think.

What does the pope have to do with anything?

Originally posted by chithappens
I thought it was a joke but alas:

Link

The discussion board are full of joke material. I think they are serious, but it's hard to tell sometimes with stuff like this.

On a more serious note, does anyone have a secular reason for practicing abstinence?

Whats wrong with their being against pornography?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The human body repulses me. But I suppose that's more of a personal reason than anything else.

That is not healthy.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Don't some Buddhists believe in not having sex?


...and the Pope?

Some Buddhists do not have sex, though the theological reasoning behind that is unknown to me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't know what every type of Buddhists think.

What does the pope have to do with anything?

Well...hes a virgin.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Whats wrong with their being against pornography?



That is not healthy.



Some Buddhists do not have sex, though the theological reasoning behind that is unknown to me.



Well...hes a virgin.

But that is a choice that he made so he could take the path he wished to take.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The human body repulses me. But I suppose that's more of a personal reason than anything else.
Are you into other animals?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But that is a choice that he made so he could take the path he wished to take.
Indeed, noone disputed that...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't know what every type of Buddhists think.

What does the pope have to do with anything? Doesn't speak well of your religion.

Just an example of someone who doesn't have sex.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Doesn't speak well of your religion.

Just an example of someone who doesn't have sex.

Why does my lack of knowledge of what other Buddhists believe speak poorly of my religion? Buddhism is as diverse as Christianity. The only Buddhism I understand is Nichiren Buddhism.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Doesn't speak well of your religion.

Just an example of someone who doesn't have sex.

Do you know what every type of American Citizen thinks?

Teenagers against pronography? How absurd. That's like a black man that hates fried chicken and watermelon.

Originally posted by Devil King
Teenagers against pronography? How absurd. That's like a black man that hates fried chicken and watermelon.

OMG

Or a gay you can safely walk past sans back-wall interface.

T.A.P.?

(Now I've seen it all)

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Or a gay you can safely walk past sans back-wall interface.

*raises hand.

Originally posted by Devil King
Teenagers against pronography? How absurd. That's like a black man that hates fried chicken and watermelon.

*shrug* approved

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Whats wrong with their being against pornography?





I didn't mean to suggest that something was wrong with the intention, but it does seem a little weird to me that this sort of thing ALWAYS has to be done with a religious backing.

There are never people doing it simply because of secular reasoning. It's always based on some "I'm scared of Hell and the wrath of God" sort of thing.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why does my lack of knowledge of what other Buddhists believe speak poorly of my religion? Buddhism is as diverse as Christianity. The only Buddhism I understand is Nichiren Buddhism. Not that. The fact that you are against a part of Buddhism, and are a Buddhist.

Well...I know that some people think pornography is abusive and degrading to the people involved. Even so, does there need to be secular examples?

Originally posted by chithappens
I didn't mean to suggest that something was wrong with the intention, but it does seem a little weird to me that this sort of thing ALWAYS has to be done with a religious backing.

There are never people doing it simply because of secular reasoning. It's always based on some "I'm scared of Hell and the wrath of God" sort of thing.

And I doubt there's a single one of them that hasn't found themselves with their pants around their ankles at some point. And you know they've seen it, otherwise how would they know to be against it?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Not that. The fact that you are against a part of Buddhism, and are a Buddhist.

What part of Buddhism are you talking about? Also, please include the Buddhist school and text.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Not that. The fact that you are against a part of Buddhism, and are a Buddhist.

Catholics tend to be against Protestants but are still Christian.

Stalinists tend to be against Trostkites but are still Socialist...

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Well...I know that some people think pornography is abusive and degrading to the people involved. Even so, does there need to be secular examples?

I don't think you will find many people who are for "pornography bondage forced on the victim without any legal consent!"

Why can't people do things with a dogma behind it? If you are behind a cause then that's awesome, but why is it that when it involves teenagers it is ALWAYS followed by some ministry "spreading the word" i.e. "do this or go to hell!"

Originally posted by chithappens
I don't think you will find many people who are for "pornography bondage forced on the victim without any legal consent!"

A woman might agree to take part in a porno...but a feminist might say it is objectifying and degrading to women...

Originally posted by chithappens
Why can't people do things with a dogma behind it? If you are behind a cause then that's awesome, but why is it that when it involves teenagers it is ALWAYS followed by some ministry "spreading the word" i.e. "do this or go to hell!"

Because you say "dogma" in a negative sense, to the Christian it might be a very positive force.

I said it in a objective/definition sense.

You are not addressing my question

Originally posted by chithappens
I said it in a objective/definition sense.

You are not addressing my question

Well, again you are centering on the religious issue, why don't you go look for a person who objects to pornography who does so not because of their belief in God but because they believe the industry is wrong and harmful etc etc

Originally posted by chithappens
I don't think you will find many people who are for "pornography bondage forced on the victim without any legal consent!"

I believe they're called Russian Mail Order Brides.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Well, again you are centering on the religious issue, why don't you go look for a person who objects to pornography who does so not because of their belief in God but because they believe the industry is wrong and harmful etc etc

Oh yeah. I'm such an ******* for not noticing the part on each KMC members' profile that details their personal beliefs on pornography.

How silly of me!

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
That is not healthy.

I disagree. That's simply who I am.

Originally posted by chithappens
Oh yeah. I'm such an ******* for not noticing the part on each KMC members' profile that details their personal beliefs on pornography.

How silly of me!

Indeed, if your going to make sweeping statements you really should do some research.

How silly of you.

I can't wait to see BackFire's post!

Some women can put in a cucumber and pull out a pickle...

Abstinence has its benefits.




I'd say that informed safe sex is a good way to go about it.





Also, some of those teens may think we are weird for loving movies so much. It's best not to judge other people's beliefs, imo.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Indeed, if your going to make sweeping statements you really should do some research.

How silly of you.

WTF are you talking about?

I asked why can't these "movements" occur without a "religious backing." You named feminists, and offered a reason (objectifying and degrading) that I had already addressed.

I made no negative connotations concerning a dogma. That was simply the interpretation of you assuming your Ms.Cleo imitation works.

Answer my question or stop wasting three of my seconds when I have to read your bias post.

Originally posted by chithappens
WTF are you talking about?

I asked why can't these "movements" occur without a "religious backing." You named feminists, and offered a reason (objectifying and degrading) that I had already addressed.

I made no negative connotations concerning a dogma. That was simply the interpretation of you assuming your Ms.Cleo imitation works.

Answer my question or stop wasting three of my seconds when I have to read your bias post.

Clearly, we are not understanding each other, and its irritating you...I apologise.

Now, what was your question and I will answer it without bias.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, some of those teens may think we are weird for loving movies so much. It's best not to judge other people's beliefs, imo.

Their beliefs are stupid and wrong.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Clearly, we are not understanding each other, and its irritating you...I apologise.

Now, what was your question and I will answer it without bias.

(This is not saying anything about people who do this with a religious backing)

Why is that young adults, are unlikely to take stands against stuff they think is wrong, such as porn, without it coming from some youth ministry group?

For example, I'm neutral on the issue of porn. On one hand, I don't think it harms anyone, but I believe it can have adverse affects on social skills. The porn itself is not what is so harmful, but what can come from it. It's kinda like videogame violence to me - it can be harmful but it is not the product alone that causes the issues.

However, I don't have to include stuff about how it's a sin and you will go to Hell if etc. (I'm not of a particular organized religion today, but I felt that way years ago when I was) to feel as if I have a point even when I was a Christian.

Originally posted by chithappens
(This is not saying anything about people who do this with a religious backing)

Why is that young adults, are unlikely to take stands against stuff they think is wrong, such as porn, without it coming from some youth ministry group?

Well, I believe that is the case because usually only Ministry groups talk about porn being bad...I can't think of any other youth group that would be against pornography...though I imagine they exist.

Originally posted by chithappens
For example, I'm neutral on the issue of porn. On one hand, I don't think it harms anyone, but I believe it can have adverse affects on social skills. The porn itself is not what is so harmful, but what can come from it. It's kinda like videogame violence to me - it can be harmful but it is not the product alone that causes the issues.

However, I don't have to include stuff about how it's a sin and you will go to Hell if etc. (I'm not of a particular organized religion today, but I felt that way years ago when I was) to feel as if I have a point even when I was a Christian.

Well, sometimes non-religious people can object to porn. From a non-religious view I feel that its abit demeaning on both the person watching and the people involved in the actual video. However, the reason that youths who object to pornography are predominantly from Christian backgrounds is because it is predominantly Christian groups who talk about pornography being wrong.

I dunno bout this whole "hell" thing you point out though. Again, as a Catholic from Scotland I have never been around the Evangelicals of America so I don't know how they preach- however, I don't think that "Porn is a sin and you'll go to hell for watching it" is an argument God would approve of, when it comes to educating Children. It is certainly not one I was ever given...in fact, I wasn't really told much about hell...

I don't understand why anybody is against pornography.

If one doesn't like porno, don't watch it.

If the people consent to doing it......and those who like porn (myself) consent to watching it, I don't see what business it is of anyone else.

that's like people not liking CSI Miami. Sure, I don't like it........so I don't watch it. I don't campaign against it to keep other people from enjoying it. If the actors want to act and the viewers want to view.......I couldn't care less. It's not like I'm being forced to watch it.

While I agree with your train of thought, I think the general consensus for those that oppose porn is "it harms society and lowers women".

But both of those thoughts are effectively nullified by:

1) People aren't forced to watch porn.
2) The women are doing it willfully and making a living.

Originally posted by Robtard
While I agree with your train of thought, I think the general consensus for those that oppose porn is "it harms society and lowers women".

But both of those thoughts are effectively nullified by:

1) People aren't forced to watch porn.
2) The women are doing it willfully and making a living.

Yet, does it not still show that women are being objectified by a patriarchal society? Just because it goes on behind closed doors doesn't mean it should be permissible.

Please note I am NOT saying that we should abolish pornos...simply putting forward an alternative viewpoint.

pornography is most adverts on tele

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav


I dunno bout this whole "hell" thing you point out though. Again, as a Catholic from Scotland I have never been around the Evangelicals of America so I don't know how they preach- however, I don't think that "Porn is a sin and you'll go to hell for watching it" is an argument God would approve of, when it comes to educating Children. It is certainly not one I was ever given...in fact, I wasn't really told much about hell...

American evangelicals tend to avoid all context of scripture and go straight for the Hell thing.

Most of them I have gotten to talk to one on one don't know much about Hell either but it doesn't stop them from blindly saying whatever they were told to say.

Originally posted by chithappens
American evangelicals tend to avoid all context of scripture and go straight for the Hell thing.

Most of them I have gotten to talk to one on one don't know much about Hell either but it doesn't stop them from blindly saying whatever they were told to say.

Well, it can be an effective way of intimidating people into believing what you tell them.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Yet, does it not still show that women are being objectified by a patriarchal society? Just because it goes on behind closed doors doesn't mean it should be permissible.

It doesn't, society isn't pressing women into porn, and considering the camera I'd hardly call it "behind closed doors".

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Yet, does it not still show that women are being objectified by a patriarchal society? Just because it goes on behind closed doors doesn't mean it should be permissible.

Please note I am NOT saying that we should abolish pornos...simply putting forward an alternative viewpoint.

Depends on the porn really, some porn is purely homosexual-male and some porn has the female in control of the male partner, neither of those would be male over female dominant, as examples.

Of course not, but what separates porn from say rape, murder or torture in the "anything goes behind closed doors" stance, is that porn isn't harming anyone that doesn't want to be harmed.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It doesn't, society isn't pressing women into porn, and considering the camera I'd hardly call it "behind closed doors".

Well, in the sense that its private and not in the public view- only being watched by those who want to watch it.

It may not be harming then directly, but is it not robbing them of dignity?

Dignity is subjective, and they're not being forced to do it. If so, then it should be illegal.

Would you have the same feelings for someone that had a job where they cleaned other peoples shit and garbage all day long (some people would find that insulting)? Would they be robbed of their dignity and therefore that job should be outlawed?

Originally posted by Robtard
Dignity is subjective, and they're not being forced to do it. If so, then it should be illegal.

Would you have the same feelings for someone that had a job where they cleaned other peoples shit and garbage all day long (some people would find that insulting)? Would they be robbed of their dignity and therefore that job should be outlawed?

Well, if you mean the people who live in the dumping ghettos of Egpyt cleaning the waste...then I'd say yes those jobs should be outlawed.

However, there is no shame in being a cleaner...in the street or office.

Yet, I think pornography is a different thing, its not exactly something where dignity can be found...I dont feel strongly enough on the issue however, as I said...

Not sure what that is, but if people are being forced (that is a the key word) or if the conditions are unsafe, I can see why you'd be against it. But on the latter, the job shouldn't be done away with, just reformed where the conditions are safe.

As there is no shame in being a porn star, people want to do it, they often get paid well for doing it, it's their choice.

As far as you thinking porn performers have no dignity, watch the AVN awards, they seem to love their job. Do you think someone would give a thank you speach and be smiling after winning "best anal sex scene" or "performer of the year" if they thought the job lowered them?

i guess if kids were addicted to porn and didnt want to be then this sort of thing would be beneficial. if not...LOL

Not sure there is a "porn addiction", but if so, alcohol is far more harmful to the addict and it's legal.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure there is a "porn addiction", but if so, alcohol is far more harmful to the addict and it's legal.

anything which gives immediate gratification and pleasure can be addictive

So in theory, one could be addicted to defecating?

Originally posted by Robtard
So in theory, one could be addicted to defecating?

perhaps. one might be so obsessed with defecating that they may overendulge themselves...maybe o.d. on fiber tablets and explode their colon...anything's possible.

plus i know you were going for the 'how can natural functions, however pleasurable, be addictive' angle...probably the first thought was 'eating', but then you stopped and thought of all the fat ****s you encounter when out and about.

No, I just wanted to make a shit reference and see if by some poop-magic Bardock suddenly appears in the thread. B?

There are food and sex addictions, not sure about shit and breathing though. So I'm split.

i dont know about you...but i dont get any pleasure from just breathing. i mean it sucks to not be able to breath, but who sits around and goes "omg this oxygen is some good shit"

While I feel your sentiment, the existance of Oxygen Bars leads me to believe there are indeed such people.

well i meant naturally taking in oxygen. straight oxygen gets you high

Originally posted by Schecter
well i meant naturally taking in oxygen. straight oxygen gets you high

It can kill you, too.

Originally posted by Robtard
While I feel your sentiment, the existance of Oxygen Bars leads me to believe there are indeed such people.

I've heard about these. The things people do...

Wait a minute. There are people who claim to....not watch pornography?

Originally posted by The Rover
Wait a minute. There are people who claim to....not watch pornography?

Dude, I have ZERO porn on my computer.


To prove my innocence, here is a screen shot of my screen.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z238/dadudemon/desktopwithpronz.jpg

good to see you created a subfolder for your kiddie porn. lets see you spot THAT f.b.i..!!!

Originally posted by chithappens
I thought it was a joke but alas:

Link


On a more serious note, does anyone have a secular reason for practicing abstinence?

According to a dj on a radio station in Grand theft Auto 4, abstaining from sex for long periods of times causes your brain to release chemicals which make you high. If that were true, i might actually try it.

I think it is cool any time Young adults take a stand against pornography and drugs and offer an outlet for others who are victim to peer pressure to go. It is when those same people become radical and start protesting and judging responsible people for engaging in adult pleasures that become annoyed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Dude, I have ZERO porn on my computer.


To prove my innocence, here is a screen shot of my screen.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z238/dadudemon/desktopwithpronz.jpg

that proves absolutely nothing, My porn is saved under pictures, labeled family.

Originally posted by Schecter
good to see you created a subfolder for your kiddie porn. lets see you spot THAT f.b.i..!!!

Damn, I didn't know there was a code of conduct for pronographiez.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
that proves absolutely nothing, My porn is saved under pictures, labeled family.

Here is the picture of the "secret stash".

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z238/dadudemon/MIDGETPRONZII.jpg

Yes, if any of you "desktop" stalkers would have guessed, my desktop had the "secret stash" picture months ago...I am just now getting around to posting it.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
My porn is saved under pictures, labeled family.

My porn is saved under History and General Knowledge. I don't know if my boyfriend has found it yet, but he doesn't act as though he has. Besides, there's not much reason to save porn to your hard drive, as one's preference changes based on what's available. I burn my pictures and movies to a CD and file it with my hundreds of albums. Who's going to truley Holms a CD collection that most gay men would consider a "slit your wrists" compilation? Sorry, I like lyric&melody over melody alone.

Originally posted by Devil King
I don't know if my boyfriend has found it yet, but he doesn't act as though he has.

If he did, would he consider it cheating?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
If he did, would he consider it cheating?

If you found porn on your wife's hard drive, would you not assume she was seeking something you were not giving her?

No.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No.

always assuming the most about yourself, eh?

Well, experience tells me that one's significant other is not nearly as understanding as yourself.

(that's why the opprotunity to find it is no longer presented to them)

You people are pussies, I have my porn stored in "My Documents", under a subfolder named "porn".

In case anyone is going to ask, my wife does know about it and my wife has her own porn, just not on her comp, they're DVDs. She calls them "ours", but they're hers, she picked them out afterall.

Originally posted by Devil King
If you found porn on your wife's hard drive, would you not assume she was seeking something you were not giving her?

I have to say "no" as well, I don't watch porn because my wife is lacking something towards me, I wouldn't suspect the same of her.

Though it really depends on the porn, if I found black she-male bestiality porn, then I might suspect she felt something was lacking. Even then, that isn't a solid "yes".

Originally posted by Robtard
She calls them "ours", but they're hers, she picked them out afterall.

So are they really lame with dialogue and themes?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So are they really lame with dialogue and themes?

Surprizingly decent actually.

Originally posted by Robtard
I have to say "no" as well, I don't watch porn because my wife is lacking something towards me, I wouldn't suspect the same of her.

Though it really depends on the porn, if I found black she-male bestiality porn, then I might suspect she felt something was lacking. Even then, that isn't a solid "yes".

No, no, no... I'm not sayng your wife is actauly lacking anything. I'm saying she would suppose she was based on the presence of porn on your hard drive. It's all the argument of the offended person, not on the person who actually has porn on their computer.

Originally posted by Devil King
My porn is saved under History and General Knowledge. I don't know if my boyfriend has found it yet, but he doesn't act as though he has. Besides, there's not much reason to save porn to your hard drive, as one's preference changes based on what's available. I burn my pictures and movies to a CD and file it with my hundreds of albums. Who's going to truley Holms a CD collection that most gay men would consider a "slit your wrists" compilation? Sorry, I like lyric&melody over melody alone. Depressing music is teh awesome.

what is the connection between sex and pornography being drawn here? the former is a natural, often wonderful natural urge which is healthy. the later is an exploitive, disgusting, sexist, manipulative business which takes advantage of people in often the worst situations and is far removed from any actual SEX for pleasure and pumping out extremely unnatural immages of the human body etc etc, among its MANY shortcomings{unless it is hentai or sumthing which doesnt involve actual humans}. i am pretty much anti pornsex entertainment based in organisations or pimps/or the sex INDUSTRY/BUSINESSS etc earning money, but pretty much pro sex.

come to think of it...i cant fathom someone who's married having porn on their desktop. in fact i think thats the stupidest attempt to prove....well...anything that i ever saw on the internets.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the later is an exploitive, disgusting, sexist, manipulative business which takes advantage of people in often the worst situations and is far removed from any actual SEX for pleasure and pumping out extremely unnatural immages of the human body etc etc, among its MANY shortcomings{unless it is hentai or sumthing which doesnt involve actual humans}.

... People in the worst situations? Why the hell is so big a deal about getting a boner and wanting to get rid of excess sperm, for example?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
what is the connection between sex and pornography being drawn here? the former is a natural, often wonderful natural urge which is healthy. the later is an exploitive, disgusting, sexist, manipulative business which takes advantage of people in often the worst situations and is far removed from any actual SEX for pleasure and pumping out extremely unnatural immages of the human body etc etc, among its MANY shortcomings{unless it is hentai or sumthing which doesnt involve actual humans}. i am pretty much anti pornsex entertainment based in organisations or pimps/or the sex INDUSTRY/BUSINESSS etc earning money, but pretty much pro sex.

Ha, you sound like one of those illogical ranting feminist.

So you NEVER watch porn?

I think that everyone, at one point in their life, has taken a look or will take a look at porn. Whether out of curiosity, interest, or just as stimulation while discovering your body.

Well of course, the question was directed at him, since he has this stance of porn being an atrocity, with the exception of things like Hentai, which I'm also am pretty sure just happens to be the pornographic material he beats off too, not very objective of him.

He claims porn depicts people in the worse situations, yet Hentai often involves things like tentacle-rape and girls in schoolgirl uniforms. Yea I know it's just animation and just pretend, but so is porn, they're similar in that they're both just performances. Though I'm certain that some women in porn are actually having sexual pleasure.

That's not even getting into amateur porn, where the people are generally having sex on camera for the pleasure of it and not for a paycheck.

If people don't want to watch it themselves, then fine; don't watch it. It's when they start saying that no one should be able to watch it, when they become an annoyance. The actors do it out of their own free will, people watch it out of their own free will, no one's being forced to do anything, so why does anyone care?

Originally posted by Schecter
come to think of it...i cant fathom someone who's married having porn on their desktop. in fact i think thats the stupidest attempt to prove....well...anything that i ever saw on the internets.

If you're referring to me...I don't get it. If you're not, call me pretentious.

Originally posted by chithappens
... People in the worst situations? Why the hell is so big a deal about getting a boner and wanting to get rid of excess sperm, for example?

urgh so MORONIC{lol, dont worry i still love you } what i MEANT was that the adult movie industry and the sex indistry is FUELED by people in the worst situation{not situation in MEDIA dumasses}. as in, people who will be RECRUITED to be pornstars or prostitutes or strippers will be people with financianl trouble, having perhaps nowhere else to go, owing debts, not having enouigh money for an education, having psychological problems etc which allow them to make the choice to be humiliated etc etc etc. ofcourse im not idiotic enough to contest that hentai often has far more disgusting things than normal porn. im referring to the lives of the sex WORKERS in the broad sence of the word. if that wasnt a problem, i really dont have much to say that in itself pornographic MATERIAL is wrong{other than sexist/pedophelic themes perhaps}. its just the people who mak it and the affects on people involved and exploitation of those people that im talking about.

and ofcourse ive seen porn, but yea ur right, im not a big fan of porn, it seems disgusting to me personally. id rather watch a hot scene in an actual movie etc. hentai, im not a big fan of either, its just that due to there being no actors involved or actual people, thre is nuthign exploitive about the INDUSTRY. ofcourse, i have my reservations about hentai too, mainly due to extreme violence or lolicon/pedophelic elements which i dont think shud be shown outright in that way on media. its like promoting child exploitation.

You know that for sure, do you? That all workers- or even the average worker- in the porn industry is someone desperate and exploited? You don't want to give any weight to the concept that it can be a legitimate economic choice for those who feel it is an area they could thrive in?

not all workers. but most workers. on top of that, the humiliation associated and the treatment as a secx object is almost universally there, it wud be silly to claim that women in the sex industry are given a lot of respect. as far as the LEGITEMATE econominc choice, i dont buy it. the only LEGITEMATE economic choice i wud say wud be a personal contract between two consenting adults{when the one getting the money isnt in a desperate economic or otherwise social position} having no third party at all involved. id still say its a BAD choice as selling your self is selling more than your body, it is giving up your free rights, physical/emotional and your basic human right to be respected to another person who may do with you as they see fit{i.e. the basic reason that SELLING basic human rights in any form is a type of enslavement}, but atleast its a personal one. when your out on the street as a professional sex WORKER, that doesnt apply, and it becomes an organised market. i very much doubt, looking at any of the documentaries or interviews on the subject or the statistics of sex workers or corellation to other negetive social phenomenon like poverty etc, that most sex workers would continue to be sex workers if they could find respectful work elsewhere where their economic needs would be met, or if they havent totally become psychologically dependants and glued to the sex worker lifestyle. to me there is nuthign wrong with SEX, ave lots of it, have lots of it with different parties, have orgies, experiment WATEVER, but when you put MONEY or TRADE in the equation, it turns into sumthing more than sex. and sumthing much uglier. basic human rights should never be TRADED or BARTERED with. only willingly given in the select few who get off on pain or authority etc if you really are desperate.

We should note that women in the porn industry are quite a lot better paid than men. According to feminists that's not the case in most professions. But who trusts filthy feminists.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
hentai, im not a big fan of either, its just that due to there being no actors involved or actual people, thre is nuthign exploitive about the INDUSTRY. ofcourse, i have my reservations about hentai too, mainly due to extreme violence or lolicon/pedophelic elements which i dont think shud be shown outright in that way on media. its like promoting child exploitation.

There's actually a lot of hentai that contains no (in the case of violence, minimal) violence or lolicon.

Certainly millionaires like Jenna Jameson are desperate exploited wretches.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
not all workers. but most workers. on top of that, the humiliation associated and the treatment as a secx object is almost universally there, it wud be silly to claim that women in the sex industry are given a lot of respect. as far as the LEGITEMATE econominc choice, i dont buy it. the only LEGITEMATE economic choice i wud say wud be a personal contract between two consenting adults{when the one getting the money isnt in a desperate economic or otherwise social position} having no third party at all involved. id still say its a BAD choice as selling your self is selling more than your body, it is giving up your free rights, physical/emotional and your basic human right to be respected to another person who may do with you as they see fit{i.e. the basic reason that SELLING basic human rights in any form is a type of enslavement}, but atleast its a personal one. when your out on the street as a professional sex WORKER, that doesnt apply, and it becomes an organised market. i very much doubt, looking at any of the documentaries or interviews on the subject or the statistics of sex workers or corellation to other negetive social phenomenon like poverty etc, that most sex workers would continue to be sex workers if they could find respectful work elsewhere where their economic needs would be met, or if they havent totally become psychologically dependants and glued to the sex worker lifestyle. to me there is nuthign wrong with SEX, ave lots of it, have lots of it with different parties, have orgies, experiment WATEVER, but when you put MONEY or TRADE in the equation, it turns into sumthing more than sex. and sumthing much uglier. basic human rights should never be TRADED or BARTERED with. only willingly given in the select few who get off on pain or authority etc if you really are desperate.

You're making blanket claims without any proof.

As noted, women are higher paid than men in porn, women can make several thousand per scene, while make can only hope for a few hundred, some rare exceptions for men exist.

Not all porn is female submission. Some porn doesn't include women at all and some porn the women are dominant/in control.

Porn is consensual, the women are willingly performing and allowing themselves to be filmed.

What about women who engage in orgies, many multiple partners etc. just like in the porn industry, yet don't get paid because they do it for fun, are they also victims?

Seriously, if you don't like porn, don't watch it, even though you do (hypocrite) despite your claimed disgust, and do stop with the unfounded illogical claims.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're making claims without any proof.

As noted, women are higher paid then men in porn, women can make several thousand per scene, while make can only hope for a few hundred, some rare exceptions for men exist.

Not all porn is female submission. Some porn doesn't include women at all and some porn the women are dominant/in control.

Porn is consensual, the women are willingly performing and allowing themselves to be filmed.

What about women who engage in orgies, many multiple partners etc. just like in the porn industry, yet don't get paid because they do it for fun, are they also victims?

Seriously, if you don't like porn, don't watch it, even though you do despite your claimed disgust, and do stop with the unfounded illogical claims.

women are also higher paid in prostitution than men, does that mean they are RESPECTED????? that is a terrible argument. it is BECAUSE their "services" are so highly valued that they are pain more, and the more you pay, the more you own. also, since more people are hetrosexual, watching women piles in more bucks. doesnt mean they are treated well, also, since the majority of sex workers{even though i was referring to the general state of the entire sex industry, it still applies to pornography too} are women, the problem of male exploitation doesnt come up that much, but i am DEFINATELY not proposing that males are exploited, its just to a lesser degree than females. males in society are often more empowered and have more choices and are less thought of as TARGETS by predaters etc{also true for the porn set or television in general. it is a well known phenomenon of acctresses sleaping with producers/directors etc on film/show sets or recruiting to get roles. but how often have you heard of women sleaping with directors/producers to get a part, and seeing as quite a few higher ups in the business are women, its makes little sense unless we admit that the status of women in society has been made more velneurable and they are more targetted} . men also usually have the dominant role in pornography as opposed to femals{interestingly the dynamic changes in gay porn, where lots and lots of cases of male exploitation exist, due to the paradigm change in position of males being similar to females, just to impress my point}.

there is SOME porn where women are dominant, true, but this is in the absolute minority if you compare the amounts of both present and made.

prostituion is also concensual, marriage to mike tyson is also consensual, wearing the veil is also concensual, becoming a celibate nun is also consensual. yet all of these institutions are oppressive and exploitive. and CONSENT in your atypical{sorry, but ur giving the impression, no offence meant otherwise} libertarian perspective means the final choice, yet you dont take the unfairness leading up to the person making the choice into consideration. i mean, really, would a child choosing to strap on a belt of bombs and blowing himself up in a non muslim neighbourhood seem fine to you based on "the boy made a choice???" NO!, people are pushed into being in places where they take these roles when they dont WANT to.

as for women who engage in orgies etc, i think ive already discussed that in my last post, any women who wants to can do it, but she is WILLINGLKY doing it for no other reason than to please herself. and if she chnages her mind, she can WALK OUT as she pleases. however when youve been PAYED to do the same thing, you have effectively given up your rights to WALK OUT if you dont want to participate, and THAT is what im against. giving up your rights. that and the fact that 99% of women in the porn industry are not there for sexual pleasure.

i HAVE watched porn, on a few occasions out of curiosity, but that is about it. i dont have anything particulalry against WATCHING porn{other than perhaps feeding the porn industry}, its the industry ITSELF that i have sumthing against, i think i made it quite clear that the media depiction in ITSELF isnt what im against. as for the wrest, it just seems like YOU want porn and the sex industry to be around for personal likeness and arent worried enough about theconsequences of it to other people and try to rationalise it in a very idealistic setting so that you can keep enjoying it without feeling guilty. and just because i dont go aroudn posting charts of statistics with every darn post doesnt mean im lacking logic. it is a universal fact that the porn industry is one of the most exploitive in existance.

"Your statements are illogical" -Mr. Spock

I especially found it hilarious that you attribute women who engage is promiscuous sex to be "doing it for themselves", while women being paid for the same thing aren't.

AS far as your "fact" of 99% of porn women are not there for pleasure... they're there for a paycheck, just like almost every other job.

Sure I like porn, what I don't do is make wild claims and accusations based on nothing but my own bias in regards to porn. Also, why should I fell guilty exactly for wathing porn? Should I feel guilty for throwing out garbage, since the garbage-man has the "dirty" job of picking it up?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
that and the fact that 99% of women in the porn industry are not there for sexual pleasure.

i HAVE watched porn, on a few occasions out of curiosity, but that is about it. Yep. I can see that statistic to be very reliable and factual.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Here is the picture of the "secret stash".

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z238/dadudemon/MIDGETPRONZII.jpg

Yes, if any of you "desktop" stalkers would have guessed, my desktop had the "secret stash" picture months ago...I am just now getting around to posting it.

wow, i dont even know what that is, but...,what ever floats your boat

Originally posted by lord xyz
Yep. I can see that statistic to be very reliable and factual.

And I heard Bill Clinton didn't inhale.

Originally posted by Robtard
"Your statements are illogical" -Mr. Spock

I especially found it hilarious that you attribute women who engage is promiscuous sex to be "doing it for themselves", while women being paid for the same thing aren't.

AS far as your "fact" of 99% of porn women are not there for pleasure... they're there for a paycheck, just like almost every other job.

Sure I like porn, what I don't do is make wild claims and accusations based on nothing but my own bias in regards to porn. Also, why should I fell guilty exactly for wathing porn? Should I feel guilty for throwing out garbage, since the garbage-man has the "dirty" job of picking it up?

by doing it for themselves, i mean using sex for its purpose, i.e. personal sexual pleasure, as opposed to financial benefit at the expence of basic human rights when you in bad financial shape. hmm, maybe we shud start legalising torture workers next, who get paid for willingly being tortured by the sadistic part of the richer population, its just a more extreme for of prositution after all and shud be ok by you since its a CHOICE.

99% was obviously blown up to try to make a point, that women in pornography are NOT their for the pleasure. do you really think every women is multi orgasimic and can cum about a hundred times a day and love it with multiple different men shoot after shoot on demand? for heaven's sake, theres sumthing called faking it! as for the paycheck part, ive already described how its a paycheck at the expence of basic human rights and how practically no1 would choose to be there if they cud find better ways to earn money.

really now, im the one making WILD claims????? seems like i havent heard you make a proper argument in oppositin to mine, or FOR pornography, your content trying to disprove mine, and i have rebutted that. and the garbage man;s personal human rights are not being given up for money or violated by him doing his job.

Teenagers should never be exposed to pornography....My god, look at the obesity of with drawl.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
by doing it for themselves, i mean using sex for its purpose, i.e. personal sexual pleasure, as opposed to financial benefit at the expence of basic human rights when you in bad financial shape. hmm, maybe we shud start legalising torture workers next, who get paid for willingly being tortured by the sadistic part of the richer population, its just a more extreme for of prositution after all and shud be ok by you since its a CHOICE.

99% was obviously blown up to try to make a point, that women in pornography are NOT their for the pleasure. do you really think every women is multi orgasimic and can cum about a hundred times a day and love it with multiple different men shoot after shoot on demand? for heaven's sake, theres sumthing called faking it! as for the paycheck part, ive already described how its a paycheck at the expence of basic human rights and how practically no1 would choose to be there if they cud find better ways to earn money.

really now, im the one making WILD claims????? seems like i havent heard you make a proper argument in oppositin to mine, or FOR pornography, your content trying to disprove mine, and i have rebutted that. and the garbage man;s personal human rights are not being given up for money or violated by him doing his job.

Again, you're making ridiculous unfounded blanket claims that porn performers are someone being denied "basic human rights". Absolutely ridiculous blanket statement.

Fake orgasms or real, that is irrelevant, they're doing it for the money and willfully doing it so. Again, they're not being paid to give up "basic human rights" as you claim. That statement is retarded.

You are, you're making blanket statements that insult logic. WTF... I haven't made one proper claim? How about these:

1) They're not being forced to do it (porn stars aren't unfortunate victims as a norm, fact)
2) They're making a living/getting paid, just like any other job.
3) People willfully watch porn.

Please do explain which "basic human rights" porn performers are giving up though? Which is odd, since if they're getting paid in the first place, they'd be willfully giving it up. If you want to give up your rights, that is a basic human right you do have, ergo, if anyone is denying people rights, it would be you.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
that and the fact that 99% of women in the porn industry are not there for sexual pleasure.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

99% was obviously blown up to try to make a point, that women in pornography are NOT their for the pleasure.

Just an FYI, if you're going to state something as "FACT", have proof to back it up and don't dismiss it in the following post, it makes one look like a stupid clown.

Who cares if they're there for pleasure? Do you sit in a cubical entering data all day for pleasure, or work in some warehouse? No, of course not, you do it for money, just like porn stars. I see no real difference between people selling their dignity and working in a job they hate, whether it involves f*cking someone in front of a camera or working at the checkouts at a supermarket, it's all the same.

The difference to Leonheartmm, he might need/benefit from someone entering data, working a warehouse or checking out groceries, while porn does nothing for him, even though he watches it.

oh.my.god

"my dad's taken my bedroom door off its hinges to help me avoid sinning behind closed doors.

now i can't because i haven't got a door.

as i've got three sisters this was highly embarrassing trying to explain why i no longer have a door - but they're very understanding about it and supportive too.

i think it's worth trading a bit of privacy for.

of course, i could still do `it` if i was determined but it definitely acts as a deterrent knowing that people could walk past any time and see inside."

Originally posted by allofyousuckkk
oh.my.god

"my dad's taken my bedroom door off its hinges to help me avoid sinning behind closed doors.

now i can't because i haven't got a door.

as i've got three sisters this was highly embarrassing trying to explain why i no longer have a door - but they're very understanding about it and supportive too.

i think it's worth trading a bit of privacy for.

Your family is full of very sick people.

Originally posted by allofyousuckkk
of course, i could still do `it` if i was determined but it definitely acts as a deterrent knowing that people could walk past any time and see inside."

Not to me. I had a very large blanket and took drama.

Hell, one time my mother walked in so I opened up Yahoo and started writing a letter to my pastor. I tried the "hey look at that" thing on my grandfather once. Didn't work but he was cool about it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Not to me. I had a very large blanket and took drama.

Hell, one time my mother walked in so I opened up Yahoo and started writing a letter to my pastor. I tried the "hey look at that" thing on my grandfather once. Didn't work but he was cool about it.

So in essense, you started writing a letter to your pastor while you had a tent-pole going in your shorts. Sick.

Originally posted by Robtard
So in essense, you started writing a letter to your pastor while you had a tent-pole going in your shorts. Sick.

Yeah . . .

Originally posted by Robtard
Again, you're making ridiculous unfounded blanket claims that porn performers are someone being denied "basic human rights". Absolutely ridiculous blanket statement.

Fake orgasms or real, that is irrelevant, they're doing it for the money and willfully doing it so. Again, they're not being paid to give up "basic human rights" as you claim. That statement is retarded.

You are, you're making blanket statements that insult logic. WTF... I haven't made one proper claim? How about these:

1) They're not being forced to do it (porn stars aren't unfortunate victims as a norm, fact)
2) They're making a living/getting paid, just like any other job.
3) People willfully watch porn.

Please do explain which "basic human rights" porn performers are giving up though? Which is odd, since if they're getting paid in the first place, they'd be willfully giving it up. If you want to give up your rights, that is a basic human right you do have, ergo, if anyone is denying people rights, it would be you.

hate to say it, but i have already replied to all of this. restating doesnt make too much of a difference. if you dont like my reply, then far be it for me to convince you otherwise, but you dont seem to have adequately rebutted point by point as i have, also giving parables to make my point of view easier to understand.

really, i think your reason for not agreeing with me is simply your personal affinity for porn perhaps. but hey thats me. also, given that those are your views, i will repeat my old question. would you be ok then, with people selling their bodies for torture to the sadistic part of the richer population? since all the arguments you are making apply to this situation as well?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
really, i think your reason for not agreeing with me is simply your personal affinity for porn perhaps. but hey thats me. also, given that those are your views, i will repeat my old question. would you be ok then, with people selling their bodies for torture to the sadistic part of the richer population? since all the arguments you are making apply to this situation as well?

Strawman. A poor one at that.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
hate to say it, but i have already replied to all of this. restating doesnt make too much of a difference. if you dont like my reply, then far be it for me to convince you otherwise, but you dont seem to have adequately rebutted point by point as i have, also giving parables to make my point of view easier to understand.

really, i think your reason for not agreeing with me is simply your personal affinity for porn perhaps. but hey thats me. also, given that those are your views, i will repeat my old question. would you be ok then, with people selling their bodies for torture to the sadistic part of the richer population? since all the arguments you are making apply to this situation as well?

Nice, you ignore valid objective points I've made and just cross your arms, stamp your feet and say "I'm right, you're wrong, it's your fault you can't see it." All you're done is make illogical blanket claims that you can't substanciate.

I watch porn, I'm not addicted to it, I don't happen to watch gay, she-male, midget, granny or toilet porn, yet I'm not against that either. I also don't **** prostitutes, yet I'm not against that either. So if anyone is being bias, it's most likely you, as you've adamantly admitted your disgust for porn, despite watching it, odd.

People do pay to be (or do) beaten, burned and cut; it's called S&M, so your point is pointless, yet again.

Edit: I'm still waiting for you to name these "basic human rights" that paid porn actors are being denied.

Originally posted by Robtard
Nice, you ignore valid objective points I've made and just cross your arms, stamp your feet and say "I'm right, you're wrong, it's your fault you can't see it." All you're done is make illogical blanket claims that you can't substanciate.

I watch porn, I'm not addicted to it, I don't happen to watch gay, she-male, midget, granny or toilet porn, yet I'm not against that either. I also don't **** prostitutes, yet I'm not against that either. So if anyone is being bias, it's you, as you've adamantly admitted your disgust for porn, despite watching it, odd.

People do pay to be (or do) beaten, burned and cut; it's called S&M, so your point is pointless, yet again.

Edit: I'm still waiting for you to name these "basic human rights" that paid porn actors are being denied.

sigh. your reply to everything is that "i" am making unfounded statement, yet you dont say which parts are unfounded. you reposted the exact points i dealt with in my last post yet you cudnt categorically point out where i was going wrong. im not in the mood to repeat myself, if any of your points were VALID{as they were in your first and second post to which, if ull notice, i actually took the time to write rather lengthy replies} i wud definately post proper replies again, but if it is merely an argument based in personal oppinion and brushing away opposing arguments then i see no reason to indulge you further.

as for SnM , i am quite aware of what it is, and yet i wasnt referring to leather and razer blades and probes, i was referring to TORTURE, since you have so mich confidence in the arguments you were posting, hardcore, extreme torture. all of my arguments and consecutively, your rebuttals apply to that as it happens. so would you be OK with people giving their bodies up for torture NOT for the pleasure of it, but to earn MONEY{in your own words "its just like ANY job"} ? please answer. {and i have already described the basic human rights i was referring to, re read my posts please}.

You've done nothing but make blanket claims, like I said, name these "basic human rights" which you claim porn performers are being denied, then I can respond directly.

Edit: E.G. Freedom of expression, are they denied that, if so, how? Etc.

I'm curious as to what human rights one gives up when they decide to be paid for being in porn.

I'm also curious about this entire mindset that being in a porn means you're selling your dignity and have no self-respect. Personally? I'd think that it'd require a hell of a lot of self-respect, because you'd have to be very comfortable and confident with yourself for that sort of thing...

This entire argument is so stupid. Some people choose (this is a key word - they are not forced, they decide to do it) to do porn. They are generally paid very well for it. It's ultimately just a job. One that some people do simply because they DO enjoy it. Not to mention, the money's good.

Relating sex workers to torture...that's just ridiculous. Get a grip.

repeating myself{i didnt want to as alone, it wudnt be taken the same as if it were in the context i was initially talking}. those rights would be to do with your body and mind as you wud please. which MEANS, waling off in the middle of a session of rough orgy if you feal like it. when you take MONEY for sex/being shot, you effectively FORFEIT the right to leave or any real say in the act your about to perform, so reguardless of how much you may dislike it{and most people in the sex industry would elaborate on how much they wud rather be doing sumthing else}. you can not WALK OFF, in the middl of sex if your a hooker whose being payed, you can NOT walk off in the middle of an orgy when shooting simply because you dont like it, you can NOT tell a guy to take it easy on you if your having physical or emotional pain, THAT is what basic rights means. your most basic of rights to do with your immediate physical body and your basic emotional state as you please and not have others intrude upon it. it isnt like a garbage man. as a garbage man, reguardless of the unpleasantness of his job, isnt contracted to expose his physical body/sexual self/the ensuing emotional backlash to his job. infact sex workers would be the only ones who have that problem{or perhaps soldiers to some extent in some part}. therefore your parallel doesnt WORK, and my ensuing request of your views on torture in similar JOB LIKE setting{taking your words} for money.

also, you still havent replied{well you havent replied adequately to anything really, not an insult, just a fact} to my query concerning your ignorance of all the facotors leading UPTO people making the choice to be in the sex industry out of necessity , and most not wanting to remain there if they had an alternative.

and now, i really wont indulge you further unless you post adequate rebuttals.

Where on earth have you come up with this idea that just because someone is being paid to be in porn, they give up the right to have any say in what they're going to do? That they can't ask to stop or slow down if they're not comfortable with what they're doing?

I mean, really, I want to know where you've come up with that and if you have anything to actually back it up. Because I have the feeling that if that was the case, there wouldn't be nearly as many people in porn as there are.

Try actually coming up with some sources for your claims instead of just pulling them out of nowhere. It's very hard to take anything you're saying seriously.

^ 1. you are talking about the public aspect of the pornography industry in america, this is no more representative of the actual points of view of its workers as the interviews in making the video are representative of the lives of video hoes. reality is quite different from PR im afraid, the porn industry isnt as clean as you think it is even in america
2. not all porn is american made, and you wud be horrified if you first hand went to half the places in the world where it is made outside america.
3. please read the older arguments i made to get a sense of what im saying. i apologise for not being the most clear or lucid of posters, i just think better than i type and am not that great on spellings.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
repeating myself{i didnt want to as alone, it wudnt be taken the same as if it were in the context i was initially talking}. those rights would be to do with your body and mind as you wud please. which MEANS, waling off in the middle of a session of rough orgy if you feal like it. when you take MONEY for sex/being shot, you effectively FORFEIT the right to leave or any real say in the act your about to perform, so reguardless of how much you may dislike it{and most people in the sex industry would elaborate on how much they wud rather be doing sumthing else}. you can not WALK OFF, in the middl of sex if your a hooker whose being payed, you can NOT walk off in the middle of an orgy when shooting simply because you dont like it, you can NOT tell a guy to take it easy on you if your having physical or emotional pain, THAT is what basic rights means. your most basic of rights to do with your immediate physical body and your basic emotional state as you please and not have others intrude upon it. it isnt like a garbage man. as a garbage man, reguardless of the unpleasantness of his job, isnt contracted to expose his physical body/sexual self/the ensuing emotional backlash to his job. infact sex workers would be the only ones who have that problem{or perhaps soldiers to some extent in some part}. therefore your parallel doesnt WORK, and my ensuing request of your views on torture in similar JOB LIKE setting{taking your words} for money.

also, you still havent replied{well you havent replied adequately to anything really, not an insult, just a fact} to my query concerning your ignorance of all the facotors leading UPTO people making the choice to be in the sex industry out of necessity , and most not wanting to remain there if they had an alternative.

and now, i really wont indulge you further unless you post adequate rebuttals.

Actually, porn actors can call for breaks and they can walk off a shoot, sure they may/won't get paid for it, but no one is forcing them to stay against their will. Similar in how a factory worker, accountant, teacher etc. etc. etc. can leave their job if he/she is displeased. Again, this is just another unfounded blanket claim of yours.

Oh, where are those "basic human rights" being denied you spoke of? Can you not name even one?

Originally posted by Robtard
and they can walk off a shoot

that's asuming they can still walk at all.

Originally posted by Devil King
that's asuming they can still walk at all.

Safe assumption, but if it makes your feel better, I'll say "walk gimply off a shoot".

Originally posted by Robtard
Safe assumption, but if it makes your feel better, I'll say "walk gimply off a shoot".

Well, if they aren't walking crooked when they leave the set, is it really worth my money?

You pay for porn? LoL, sucker.

Originally posted by Robtard
You pay for porn? LoL, sucker.

not at all. But if I was going to, I wouldn't pay for it unless she was ruined. And while I'm at it, I certainly don't pay for porn with chicks in it, do I?

xtube, and any huge number of free sites provide for all my porn needs.

You never sneek a peek at some porn starlet taking cock in either the pink, stink or both, not even for old-times sake?

Originally posted by Robtard
You never sneek a peek at some porn starlet taking cock in either the pink, stink or both, not even for old-times sake?

Not a starlet, unless it's by mistake. I don't seek out porn stars be them mae or female. But yeah, I will occasionally catch some straight porn. But, it's never for old times sake, as there is no such thing as "old times" when it comes to my sexual proclivity. There is nothing worth clinging to when it comes to my first sexual experiences. Chicks just didn't do it for me then, much less do they now.

Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, porn actors can call for breaks and they can walk off a shoot, sure they may/won't get paid for it, but no one is forcing them to stay against their will. Similar in how a factory worker, accountant, teacher etc. etc. etc. can leave their job if he/she is displeased. Again, this is just another unfounded blanket claim of yours.

Oh, where are those "basic human rights" being denied you spoke of? Can you not name even one?

again, READ what i have written, it pertains specially to peoples perception of the public face of porn in america.

i have specifically explained what i mean by the basic human rights, re read if you dont understand.

Your arguments are feeble, leon. They come down to this:

A: Porn is exploitative and bad for women!

B: No it isn't

A: Well, the porn that is exploitative and bad for women is...


It is POSSIBLE for porn to have its exploitative side. But that's the same of many industries- manual and factory labour was WAY more exploitation problems than porn does.

You try and sweep aside the entirity of the legitimate porn industry but instead making comments and attacks on its underground side. Obviously the side of porn that is done underground with exploitative/illegal content is bnad, but that's simply a given, has nothing to do with mainstream porn, and would exist anyway. The fact that such underground stuff exists in absolutely no way or form impinges upon tyhe fact that mainstream porn is legitimate and consists of workers whol chose a job being paid a market rate for it. Whether they enjoy that or not is as irrelevant as whether any office worker or manual labourer enjoys their work- it's a job, that's the point. They chose to be there, they want to be there, they are surviving by being there in a legitimate business.

Don't insult my intelligence by ridiculous comparisons either. Torture is clearly wrong and illegal with good reason; consensual sex is not. Prostitution is in fact legal (if you want to give someone money for whatever reason you lik,e that's your business); it tends to br solicitation that is illegal and that is a public order issue (i.e. some object to haveing prossies on the streets). That being the case, it is the organisation of prostitution that is an underground/illegal activity and THAT is why prostitution is exploitative. No similar situation exists in porn. No-one is exploiting these people, generally. They have all the same rights as you or I do in the work place

Talk to the average porn worker and you won;t find someone wo says they are ruthlessly exploited and their life ruined, you will ust find someone who does a job, moans about their life in general and bitches about some of their idiotic co-workers- kinda like ANY job, really. Some people happen to be very good at it and arepaid well; you would seek, presumably, to deny them that opportunity.

Genuine exploitation in porn should be stamped out. But then a bunch of immigrant cockle pickers drowned on the beach in the UK a coiple of years ago due to exploitation by their gangmasters. That should be stopped too, but that would be a stupid reason to be against all manual labour. Saying that the illegal/underground side of professions is wrong is a no brainer. Using their existence to attack the industry in general simply shows no brains.

There is only one problem here and that is that porn workers tend to get looked down upon. This is an unreasonable view from people spewing outdated Victorian nonsense aboutn them having sold out or lost their respect etc, a view that makes no sense at all in these modern times and says more about those disapproving thasn those being disapproved of. So I'd be careful where you step there, leon- it could be the only problem is those with views like yourself.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Your arguments are feeble, leon. They come down to this:

A: Porn is exploitative and bad for women!

B: No it isn't

A: Well, the porn that is exploitative and bad for women is...


It is POSSIBLE for porn to have its exploitative side. But that's the same of many industries- manual and factory labour was WAY more exploitation problems than porn does.

You try and sweep aside the entirity of the legitimate porn industry but instead making comments and attacks on its underground side. Obviously the side of porn that is done underground with exploitative/illegal content is bnad, but that's simply a given, has nothing to do with mainstream porn, and would exist anyway. The fact that such underground stuff exists in absolutely no way or form impinges upon tyhe fact that mainstream porn is legitimate and consists of workers whol chose a job being paid a market rate for it. Whether they enjoy that or not is as irrelevant as whether any office worker or manual labourer enjoys their work- it's a job, that's the point. They chose to be there, they want to be there, they are surviving by being there in a legitimate business.

Don't insult my intelligence by ridiculous comparisons either. Torture is clearly wrong and illegal with good reason; consensual sex is not. Prostitution is in fact legal (if you want to give someone money for whatever reason you lik,e that's your business); it tends to br solicitation that is illegal and that is a public order issue (i.e. some object to haveing prossies on the streets). That being the case, it is the organisation of prostitution that is an underground/illegal activity and THAT is why prostitution is exploitative. No similar situation exists in porn. No-one is exploiting these people, generally. They have all the same rights as you or I do in the work place

Talk to the average porn worker and you won;t find someone wo says they are ruthlessly exploited and their life ruined, you will ust find someone who does a job, moans about their life in general and bitches about some of their idiotic co-workers- kinda like ANY job, really. Some people happen to be very good at it and arepaid well; you would seek, presumably, to deny them that opportunity.

Genuine exploitation in porn should be stamped out. But then a bunch of immigrant cockle pickers drowned on the beach in the UK a coiple of years ago due to exploitation by their gangmasters. That should be stopped too, but that would be a stupid reason to be against all manual labour. Saying that the illegal/underground side of professions is wrong is a no brainer. Using their existence to attack the industry in general simply shows no brains.

There is only one problem here and that is that porn workers tend to get looked down upon. This is an unreasonable view from people spewing outdated Victorian nonsense aboutn them having sold out or lost their respect etc, a view that makes no sense at all in these modern times and says more about those disapproving thasn those being disapproved of. So I'd be careful where you step there, leon- it could be the only problem is those with views like yourself.

i will only say a few things.

1. i do not look down upon sex workers or porn stars, unless they are bitchy. i simply think they are making the wrong decision and selling off rather precious things, which can be GIVEN as they see fit but not SOLD.

the parallel to torture is severe, but very appropriate. it is covered by all the arguments you are making FOR pornography and all the arguments i am making AGAINST it. saying one is OBVIOUSLY wrong while the other isnt is extremely illogical and tells me that your reasons for supporting porn are more aesthetic and less intellectual/logical. tell me, why is the situation with torture different in the parallels that i am drawing and how isnt IT covered by the free choice etc arguments that you and robtard are making, you will certainly have a hard time doing it.

You really can't see the difference between torture and consensual sex, seriously?

As I pointed out, S&M could be compared to torture, and you're fine with that, as long as money isn't being exchanged. Totally ridiculous. Just as you're fine with a woman engaging in orgies, or having many multiple sex partners; just as long as she isn't paid. Completely retarded thought that is.

Face it, your arguments are baseless, ill-founded and totally based on your bias that you personally find porn disgusting, despite watching it, which is just odd.

I seriously don't see a problem with someone being willingly tortured anyway. Presumably that's what you're on about, leon? If I want to be tortured for money, why should you have the right to stop me? Why should you have a say in how I earn my money, if it's not hurting anyone else but me (under my own will), what's the problem?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i will only say a few things.

1. i do not look down upon sex workers or porn stars, unless they are bitchy. i simply think they are making the wrong decision and selling off rather precious things, which can be GIVEN as they see fit but not SOLD.

the parallel to torture is severe, but very appropriate. it is covered by all the arguments you are making FOR pornography and all the arguments i am making AGAINST it. saying one is OBVIOUSLY wrong while the other isnt is extremely illogical and tells me that your reasons for supporting porn are more aesthetic and less intellectual/logical. tell me, why is the situation with torture different in the parallels that i am drawing and how isnt IT covered by the free choice etc arguments that you and robtard are making, you will certainly have a hard time doing it.

Okay, really, why can't they be sold and only given? Because you say so? Who are you to dictate what someone else can willingly do or not do?

Originally posted by Peach
Okay, really, why can't they be sold and only given? Because you say so? Who are you to dictate what someone else can willingly do or not do? Leonheartmm, DUH!

Originally posted by leonheartmm
not all workers. but most workers.

How could you possibly prove that most porn actors/actresses are in a poor economic situation?

Originally posted by leonheartmm


99% was obviously blown up to try to make a point, that women in pornography are NOT their for the pleasure. do you really think every women is multi orgasimic and can cum about a hundred times a day and love it with multiple different men shoot after shoot on demand?


Now you are assuming that men only do it for pleasure. That is a sexist assumption.

Have you ever heard of "Superhead" aka Karen Steffans? She willing put herself out to have sex with lots of hip hop artists and then wrote a book about it "exposing" loads on their personal life, etc. She says in the book (which I have read part of) that she is doing for money. If she wants to just do it for money, then that is her decision.

It doesn't even matter if circumstance "forced" her into it. That is an issue to discuss among sociologists and to rally around and tell people to talk about classism. Regardless, that is her decision. You should deal with the root of the problem rather than focus on the effect.

And no one thinks all women all "multi orgasmic" but most PEOPLE are not that way. I'm all for supporting women and trying to gain some equal ground on issues that need to be discussed, but damn you come off like the same scum you suggest men are in this case.

Originally posted by Robtard
You really can't see the difference between torture and consensual sex, seriously?

As I pointed out, S&M could be compared to torture, and you're fine with that, as long as money isn't being exchanged. Totally ridiculous. Just as you're fine with a woman engaging in orgies, or having many multiple sex partners; just as long as she isn't paid. Completely retarded thought that is.

Face it, your arguments are baseless, ill-founded and totally based on your bias that you personally find porn disgusting, despite watching it, which is just odd.

i can, but i was merely bringing it up to explain to you that if we take YOUR personal argument for porn, than xtreme torture is also fairgame, unless you wanna come up with different arguments for porn. POINT being, that there are aspects of porn you are willfully ignorant about and only seeing certain aspects of it, which CAN be used to justify torture too. SnM isnt the same as extreme torture. also, either answer my questions or dont speak at all, you havent categorically rebutted any of the arguments ive gven, its always, OH THIS IS SO STUPID, YOU REALLY BELEIVE THIS, YOU ARE SO STUPID, HERE I WILL RETYPE EVERYTHING YOU ALREADY DEALT WITH.

my arguments arent based on my bias, there are quite a few other things i wud personally find distastefull, yet dont argue about them as they have no logical basis to them other than my personal choice. this ISNT one of them. i HAVE watched porn, but dont make a habit of it, just as i HAVE watched crappy popcon flicks and dont make a habit of it. and yet i have sumthing negetive to say about both.

Originally posted by Peach
Okay, really, why can't they be sold and only given? Because you say so? Who are you to dictate what someone else can willingly do or not do?

please look at the context i said that in, and also see that it was a reply to a sumthing else and not a blanket statement in itself.

Originally posted by chithappens
How could you possibly prove that most porn actors/actresses are in a poor economic situation?



Now you are assuming that men only do it for pleasure. That is a sexist assumption.

Have you ever heard of "Superhead" aka Karen Steffans? She willing put herself out to have sex with lots of hip hop artists and then wrote a book about it "exposing" loads on their personal life, etc. She says in the book (which I have read part of) that she is doing for money. If she wants to just do it for money, then that is her decision.

It doesn't even matter if circumstance "forced" her into it. That is an issue to discuss among sociologists and to rally around and tell people to talk about classism. Regardless, that is her decision. You should deal with the root of the problem rather than focus on the effect.

And no one thinks all women all "multi orgasmic" but most PEOPLE are not that way. I'm all for supporting women and trying to gain some equal ground on issues that need to be discussed, but damn you come off like the same scum you suggest men are in this case.

right right, my bad, most pornstars have always had being in the porn business as theu DREAM career, how idiotic of me.

also, you jumped from{women are mistreated etc} to {men are not mistreated} i didnt mean to say that, read my previous posts and the line of argumentation. i was merely referring to directors etc telling em ot do it. and it ws dealing with older points of porn for pleasure etc. please just read what i wrote in the entire argument, ull understand what im trying to say. it isnt at all what your perceiving it to be here.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i can, but i was merely bringing it up to explain to you that if we take YOUR personal argument for porn, than xtreme torture is also fairgame, unless you wanna come up with different arguments for porn. POINT being, that there are aspects of porn you are willfully ignorant about and only seeing certain aspects of it, which CAN be used to justify torture too. SnM isnt the same as extreme torture. also, either answer my questions or dont speak at all, you havent categorically rebutted any of the arguments ive gven, its always, OH THIS IS SO STUPID, YOU REALLY BELEIVE THIS, YOU ARE SO STUPID, HERE I WILL RETYPE EVERYTHING YOU ALREADY DEALT WITH.

my arguments arent based on my bias, there are quite a few other things i wud personally find distastefull, yet dont argue about them as they have no logical basis to them other than my personal choice. this ISNT one of them. i HAVE watched porn, but dont make a habit of it, just as i HAVE watched crappy popcon flicks and dont make a habit of it. and yet i have sumthing negetive to say about both.

FFS... We've all rebutted every single illogical point you've made point for point. You simply refuse to see that you're making blanket claims without any proof.

"Porn actors are desperate victims"
"Porn women can't walk off a shoot, they're trapped"
"No one really wants to be a porn actor"
"99% of the women don't enjoy the porn sex"
"Porn actors are being denied basic human rights"
"Women shouldn't engage in orgies, unless they're not being paid, then it's fine"

Those are only a few of the generalizations you've tried to pass off as fact, despite not having a shred of proof that anything you claim is a norm.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
right right, my bad, most pornstars have always had being in the porn business as theu DREAM career, how idiotic of me.

"Oh Boy, when I grow up I sure want to be a garbage man" - "Really? I always dreamt of spending my live in a cubicle, checking insurance claims" - "You guys are all nuts, my dream is, to one day, drive around town in a truck selling frozen goods to housewives".


Right.

Originally posted by Robtard
FFS... We've all rebutted every single illogical point you've made point for point. You simply refuse to see that you're making blanket claims without any proof.

"Porn actors are desperate victims"
"Porn women can't walk off a shoot, they're trapped"
"No one really wants to be a porn actor"
"99% of the women don't enjoy the porn sex"
"Porn actors are being denied basic human rights"
"Women shouldn't engage in orgies, unless they're not being paid, then it's fine"

Those are only a few of the generalizations you've tried to pass off as fact, despite not having a shred of proof that anything you claim is a norm.

1 word, LIE

Originally posted by Bardock42
"Oh Boy, when I grow up I sure want to be a garbage man" - "Really? I always dreamt of spending my live in a cubicle, checking insurance claims" - "You guys are all nuts, my dream is, to one day, drive around town in a truck selling frozen goods to housewives".


Right.

lol, and IM making blanket statements??????? if you are willingly leaving out the context{i.e. the post to which this was a REPLY to!} then ofcourse its gonna seem like a blanket statement. again, give proper rebuttals or consider mouthing off sumwhere else.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1 word, LIE

Not good enough. Go ahead, and show him all the proof you have.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not good enough. Go ahead, and show him all the proof you have.
whats the point, seeing as were going around in circles and he isnt answering my points directly.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1 word, LIE

Are you claiming I am lying? If so, please show me.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
whats the point, seeing as were going around in circles and he isnt answering my points directly.

I've answered every single one of your questions, as has everyone else. I assume you're still on about the "torture" bit. It's a stupid question, you have even agreed that sex and torture are two entirely different things, you're comparing apples to bagels.

But honestly, if someone wants to willingly sell themselevs for torture, there shouldn't be a problem, they're willingly agreeing to it. And as I pointed out, people already do, S&M can be like torture. Whipping, bleeding, kicking, burning, stepping of genitals etc. etc. etc.

So, now that I've answered your question yet again, please do show your proof for all the idiotic blanket claims you've made about the porn industry. You can begin with the "denial of basic human rights".

Edit: What you're doing is taking a smaller negative in the porn industry, like pedophillia or other coerced porn and blanketing it across and saying "it's all bad, it's all the same". That could be down with almost any industry. Are you goign to shut-down every clothes manufacturer because another is using sweatshop pratices?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
whats the point, seeing as were going around in circles and he isnt answering my points directly.

I'm disapointed in you

Originally posted by chithappens
I'm disapointed in you

That's just Leo's standard response when he can't back-up what he claims. He starts doing the *sigh* thing and claims others are being elusive/dishonest.

My first time seeing it. It's pretty sad.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's just Leo's standard response when he can't back-up what he claims. He starts doing the *sigh* thing and claims others are being elusive/dishonest.

You can't blame him for refusing to hit his head against a brick wall...

Originally posted by chithappens
My first time seeing it. It's pretty sad.

Are you his cheerleader?