BW/Leo Vs. Charlotte/Gundam

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Ok then once again good luck to everyone.

The Match is going up Wednesday 9:00 EST

It will end Monday 7:00 EST.

Judges will be Digimark, batdude, Bada

Pool A:
Locations: Welcome to the frozen planet of Nimoy. A planet made completely of ice with many tunnels and caverns littering it's inside. It's core is a giant hole in the planet. It is 200 miles wide. The planet is twice the size of Earth. Water mines dot the planet using plasma generators to melt the ice and ship it to other planets for use. It often said even emotions become frozen here. In reality though it is only the molecules of the people brave enough to face it's almost absolute zero temperatures. Unfortunately the high death total, and high expense to get the water eventually drove the miners to abandon it.

Prep Time: 1 Week






Charlotte DeBel
Charlotte's post #1 of 8

Laziness and simplicity are two different things. And you guys were too lazy in that match.

So, your suns melted the ice around our artificial planet- nice and wonderful, but B-Dub has capitalised so much on Inetron properties, that I won't repeat that once again (and the "core" of our living planet, where majority of our team is resting, is made of Inetron and Captain America's alloy). And what's more, you gave my Adapting Apollo, who already has the abilities of JLA heavy hitters, Lightray, Thor etc and has been sundipping for nearly a week courtesy of Lightray's powerset even MORE solar energy to sundip- since he can easily use Spartan's template to teleport in front of your suns as they explode. Your first stage of attack will be your last one as well.
Think something along the lines of that attack on you, but magnituded hundredfolds and thousandfolds due to amouth of solar energy absorbed. Who's crispy cookie now, darlings?
Speed- no problem, Apollo is already incredibly fast and that attribute can be increased even more. Single characters- without amping and under thier own power- are limited to lightspeed, but we have upgraded him by "adaptoidising" him. Sundipped Apollo is already moves at subluminal speeds- and then we stack speeds of Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, Lightray, Savitar and god knows who else- the amouth of templates I've collected so far is enormous- on top of that. The guy would EASY be far faster than light speed.
Super Adaptoid stacking multiple degrees of abilities from different characters- in that case combined strength of Thor and Hercules, but that's just as easy to do with speed:
He's fast, incredibly fast, has superluminal reactions and amazing fighting skills, he has Cosmic Awareness courtesy of Mar-Vell, Air Walker and Terrax, has electromagnetic powers embedded into him as well to protect him both from his weakness and possible contact with outer surface of Shifter which is made of antimetal, he's sundipped as hell, he's what Superman Prime dreams of becoming. And that's just Apollo.

Now, to Savitar's incredible speed part. I don't deny it, except the moment that there's TK stasis field surrounding the planet, and that psi-shileding is established at the end of prep time (see Gundam's prep for more explanations). The picosecond he gest into it, the picosecond he becomes incredibly slowed down and has his mind destroyed. We can stop his motoric functions like that:
In addition to that we can use the combination of New Son and Vulcan's power to give him the taste of his own medicine- aka steal all kinetic motion from him. And that's without having to resort to speed force thingy. You're not the only ones playing slo-mo game here.

Leo, also I'd like to say you that "molecular level TP" is something as nonsensical as X-ray hearing- you (Rachel and Nate) have molecular level telekinesis, not telepathy. But that's all pales compared to our titanic psi-assault- and we're amped by Cerebras, neurostimulants etc.

BTW, I just realised that kinetic energy steal is useless to our adaptoids. Why? Because of nice handy thing called Nega Bands that revitalise wielder's energy supply based on the energy of nearby stars.
You've created plenty of suns to compensate for the energy you've drawing. Our Terminatrixes and Apollo can survive your initial attack, since the stolen supply of kinetic energy can be recovered instantly.

Also it should be noted that high level TP users don't depend on physical brain- some of them can easily transcend physical body and exist as living astral projection. And Xavier and Exodus are the ones capable on that. Stealing kinetic energy from our bodies won't save you from massive mindwipe- my team is immune to that courtesy of Nega-Bands, Gundam's can just enter astral projection state and still give you ass whooping.

The triplet of telepathic Terminatrixes already have FTL TP due to having Omega Kid among their TP templates (and backup speedsters templates):
Not to mention that telepathy\telekinesis in itself is instant thing. Your "outrunning the teleportation" sounds like nice semantic- but that's not that unique of a feat.
Flash was caught in TK freeze before, so...

Our psi-attack is >>>>>>>>>>>anything you can in that department.
Your suns do jack to us except powering us up.
You are a bunch of mindless vegetables picoseconds after match starts.

Charlotte DeBel

first -- cuz i forgot, my team is 3 adaptoids (emperor speed is one and the others are forge and taki, though it doesn't really matter since all my team have been changed into adaptoids . . .)

now then, some misconceptions and plain inaccuracies that need to be cleared up round here . . .

there is no sample of cap's shield -- SA uses only an approximation of the weapons he copies, not EXACT copies. so that bit is out. whatever you make from his copy<<<cap's shield.

you'll need to explain a little more clearly this whole 'astral resurrection thing' again, cdb . . .

sorry cdb -- that is utterly inaccurate. jay brought this up in his vote as well and i wanted to clear this up now. i have no clue where everyone gets the notion that black box needs to have any knowledge WHATSOEVER of a system in order to access it. he DOES NOT NEED TO "HACK" ANYTHING. he DOES NOT need any info on 'tech' or specific 'systems'. when he was a 5 year old kid he was getting knowledge from systems ALL ACROSS THE WORLD! you think he understood how to 'hack' all those systems when he was a child living in poverty??

judges, please be clear -- BLACK BOX DOES NOT NEED TO HACK ANYTHING. ALL INFORMATION COMES TO HIM PASSIVELY WITHOUT HIS ASKING FOR IT. read his bio, see how his powers work. there was a time he wanted to STOP the flow of info and couldn't. the dominus objective that cdb referenced is -- in this case -- redundant. all it did was allow him to 'SEE' all the info that was coming to him (his human brain was unable to process it) and once seeing it, he was then able to RETRIEVE IT AT WILL. with the computer-speed brain, speed force powers and psi-skills, the objective is no longer required as he can process and recall the information ON HIS OWN in my amalgam. and with his awareness of dc and wildstorm, and the fact that i have telepathically linked with characters from those current universes, i can access whatever materials EXIST within those universes (nj already ruled that this is completely LEGAL).

so, yeah, FYI -- hacking and tech knowledge have exactly NOTHING to do with Black Box's ability to access information. smile

wow, cool idea -- wish i'd thought of it . . . big grin

oops, gonna have to interrupt again. the adaptoid tech i shared with you was the techno-organic tech (the same one i'm using). you never specified anything different. there is precisely ZERO evidence to suggest that this style of adaptoid can stack powers -- ie -- combine hercules' and thor's strength, or flash and savitar's speed. believe me -- if i thought i could convince anyone that i could stack powers, i would have tried it myself. smile

regardless -- even if you COULD stack your speed, my access to SF STILL ensures i will ALWAYS be faster than you. even stacked, your speed has limits. access to SF grants essentially LIMITLESS speed as has been demonstrated numerous times by flash and other SF users.

however, i don't need to be that fast since you can't stack speeds and are moving at a piddly sub-lightspeed . . .

btw -- you keep referencing this vast database of powers you have access to (like your list of psi-guys). you do recall i have access to all the same powers, right? all the databases i have accessed have proven -- ON-PANEL -- to be downable as regards to the powersets housed in them. any proof that any wildstorm powerset has been not only catalogued but downloaded . . .?

???? what the heck IS this thing? scans??

holy confusion batman . . . you have covered yourself (i think? or is it the planet???) in 1-mile thick anti-metal and want inertron to protect you? that . . . doesn't even make sense. anti-metal destroys ALL metal. you just destroyed your own prep . . .

like what -- we wouldn't have time to sense that or react to such an inefficient attack? cosmic awareness ring a bell? and we CAN fly. AND teleport. REALLY fast . . .

that's all well and good. well, except for the part where you think you can stack speeds. and even if you are working in picoseconds (10x-12), i'm more in the septosecond (10x-21) range . . . in other words -- i'm faster. WWWAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY faster. i steal your speed and you're finished.

huh? how?

i just . . . don't get this void-sucking thing . . . no

which, with access to the exact same templates, i am equal to . . . accessing madrox's powers, i can create 6 dupes instantaneously to counteract any number advantage as well.

what exactly keeps me from simply vibrating out of it and going completely intangible? or accessing vision's powers to phase out? or . . . a host of other powers i could use to free myself . . .?

seriously -- phase out, vibrate out, BLAST out . . .

oh my human minds can handle your assault -- since i'm armed with all the same powers. smile

whatever i meet inside (not that i would ever BE inside) i would copy, and with my speed-forced enhanced metabolism copy INSTANTLY.

whew. and people say i write a lot . . .

now then, a quick word about what's going to happen in this match.

first, i get to the world. if they haven't killed themselves somehow by surrounding themselves in mile-thick anti-metal blink i steal their speed. i do this before they have a chance to do ANYTHING. AT ALL. the speeds at which i am moving are only possible via direct access to the speed force. i;ve shown you flash outracing INSTANTANEOUS SPEED, and moving so fast that even superman was basically standing still. you can NOT stack speeds, and even if you could it wouldn't matter -- i'm STILL faster.

now, the idea that i couldn't drain your kinetic energy because it is constantly being replenished: that's the old silver surfer argument. the problem with it is this -- i can drain your kinetic energy FASTER than you can absorb it. smile you will be absorbing ambient energy at the speed of light.

i will be DRAINING it from you at a FAR faster rate. beyond that, there is this little tidbit:

the speed force is the SOURCE of all motion -- it FEEDS all motion. essentially, by cutting you off from the speed force, i am cutting you off from all kinetic energy. i am eliminating your access to kinetic energy AT THE SOURCE. you can TRY to absorb more, but i am denying you that ability because i am not allowing kinetic energy to REACH you. or, again, look at from the point of pure speed -- i'm draining it faster than you can absorb it. either way, you are frozen -- and that means (as the scan illustrates) at the SUB-ATOMIC LEVEL. nothing in you works -- even your neurons are robbed of kinetic energy. no thought. no movement. perfectly frozen.

and if you think it's too much -- here's wally stealing the speed of a PLANET. recall: savitar has FAR greater control than wally ever did, and with vulcan (not to mention all the other energy manipulators now at my disposal) he has even GREATER control AND unlimited access:

so . . .

you're screwed. while you're frozen, my dupes and bw's group can simply use our OWN matter manip skills to change all your metals and anti-metals into . . . whatever we want. or one of my dupes can simply lend thom speed and he can slice through to you and kill all of you with his axe. my own dupes can find you and kill you with their own molecular tK (yeah, i said tp earlier -- oops embarrasment )

bottom line is this -- my prep wasn't lazy in any way. it was simple and utterly foolproof and completely indefensible. even if we just convert your metals into something like air, we can still drop the suns on you. apollo likely has a limit -- has he ever survived INSIDE a sun?? and if he CAN survive: who cares? we copy his powers and are STILL faster than him and i can always just steal his speed again.

sorry cdb -- there's really no way for you to win this one. erm

Charlotte DeBel
A mile out of 200 miles of other materials, most part of which don't let antimetal vibration to get through. Remember, there's plenty of stuff to block those things (Ironman was able to hide from it under the rock etc). And a good 190 miles between anti-metal surface and our team. Nothing suicidal, darling- Cap America's shield alloy and Interon take care of those radiations since their molecular structure is too hard to be disintegrated. I'm not that stupid to commit suicide.

And the part about revitalising is not the best one here- I'm not playing only that card, as it's not enough to beat you. You'll be fighting over the control of kinetic energy with another high-end energy manipulator. The New Son template is active from the start of the match (from the early episodes of prep, actually) , and you'll be fighting another being's (assisted by the very same templates as yours) kinetic energy control that has been shown to be planetarywise and stretching as far as a control over time itself.

BTW, I found a thing that sort of busts your plans on Speed Force being uncopyable and you being the only one in the match with acess to it.
Green Lightning, freaking GREEN LANTERN CONSTRUCT, demonstrates the access to the speedforce.
Speed stealing and metabolism acceleration
Speed lending

That was a GL construct, artificially created being. So the chances that our adaptoids would show off the powers copied from Savitar and Wally other than their speed (making it a good tug-of-war of a fight- enough for our psionics to toy with your minds at least).
Kyle confirms that his creations were made by his imagination. If a freakin' GL construct can use SpeedForce in those ways- it SHOULD be copyable.

wow, nice find, cdb. smile

a couple things about green lightning for those who don't know her -- first, you're right, she was a construct. BUT, like all the other members of circle of fire, she was an UNCONSCIOUS construct. all of the members were purely figments of kyle's injured psyche, conjured DIRECTLY BY THE RING ITSELF. throughout the arc, even kyle himself did not know they were constructs. in her case, she was "supposedly" from the future, born of a speed-force using mother, and a green lantern (deadly combo!) her ability (if it was 'real') was consistent with what kyle's ring (not kyle) CREATED her to be.

what you're supposing is that because a ring (the most powerful weapon in the universe!) could POSSIBLY access the speed force (not inconceiveable to me) that you or anyone should be able to copy it?


despite all he's done since, kyle has never shown the ability to duplicate that feat. his ring essentially CREATED LIFE in that arc. but KYLE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. his RING did. no gl -- kyle, hal, no one -- has EVER shown to be able to consciously access the speed force. certainly with the knock-off rings you, i, or bw may possess, not to mention the lack of training and willpower, we could not logically suppose we could CONSCIOUSLY do what the greatest gl's have never been able to do. erm

a ring is said to be capable of ANYTHING (and many feats support this). but just because a ring can create an imaginary character capable of accessing the force does NOT mean you can access it through copying -- especially when everything we copy is simply imperfect knock-offs. besides, how can we say that she wasn't using an 'imaginary' speed force, or that the ring was simply duplicating its properties somehow? or maybe because the character was NEVER ALIVE, the force allowed access?? the situation you're referencing is simply too unique to help you. erm

ring=most powerful weapon in the universe
our copying ability? NOT the most powerful weapon in the universe . . .

oh, and if no one buys that perfectly sensible explanation: it was retconned anyway since it was later revealed that the force CHOOSES who can access it. and the fact that not even a gl has accessed it again in ANY way since, lends credence to BOTH my above arguments.

we win via speed steal, matter manip and making it rain suns, or by simply hacking through the planet to kill you all with bw's axe.

Charlotte DeBel
Charlotte's post #4 of 8

Now, to your points. First, what is the Void-sucking device
Here Engineer "de-Voids" Captain Atom and cure works until he contacts another piece of Void. A huge amount of microscopic nanites getting your Void signature away from you.

Now to the part of "current Adaptoids being unable to stack powers". Well, Elena Belova was shown to access multiple power signatures simultaneously- a sum of Senrty, Spiderman's and Cage's powerset at once. There's no proof that she CAN'T stock powers (and enough material to assume than she can do that since she has used multiple power signatures "overlaping" each other in some ways ( signatures of three superstrong characters at the same time))- but that doesn't matter since the range of templates we have access to is almost the same. But the key word is ALMOST.

Extra ones are New Son (+Darkstar and Airwalker)- from Nate's psi-resurrestion done in previous round, Stormwatch data and JLA data from adjusting Infonet to Wildstorm\DC verses computer nets. Three resurrested templates and Stormwatch templates are the only unique ones that you don't have- and those will matter in the eventual outcome (you never tried accessing Bendix' database on Stormwatch, for example). So no, we don't have THE SAME templates- most of ours are the same, but there's some important differences.

Good thing that I possess two characters that have proved themselves to be able acessing assloads of information there- Engineer and Brainy 8 respectfully.
Leo, I'm fully aware HOW the Infonet works:

You're right, the ability is passive. But you need the template or mind of someone who is already parasyting on his\her world's computer net to perform adjusting it (Dominus) to that. And we did that in prep- thus the data on entire JLA roster (not just Big Seven) and Stormwatch.

Now to mental resurrestion part- as I've proven in previous rounds, that thing is totally plausible.
Nate has resurrested people from the residual thoughts on Astral Plane before- all he needs is memories.
If the person has lived and died in 616 multiverse, his mind is connected to the astral plane.
Even if it's the alien one.

The resurrested "psionic shell" has all the properties of the body of original. Upper power limit is unknown- but Nate was able perfectly resurrest Maddie Pryor- a wielder of Goblin Force, that is rivalring Phoenix Force. So the powers of New Som (along with Airwalker and Darkstar) are ours without any doubt.

The argument about Green Lightning was that being artificial in its origin construct with human\seemingly human mind is not an obstacle in diplaying access to the Speed Force. But that's just to put a grain of doubt in there.
You're completely overlooking one part- we have a template of planetary level kinetic energy manipulator (perfectly working since there's no any mythical selectively working plot devices) assisted by templates of Vulcan and Winter (two A-list energy manipulators) active from basically the first hours of our prep. And that means it will be in effect when you start your little speed steal. You'll have to fight for control over that speed.
Once again, I'm repeating the scans:
New Son has Archangel frozen in time, not "frozen" as in using the kinetic energy steal to cool one's molecules to absolute zero (ala Iceman). Gambit, who was given exactly the same powers as New Son (but with zero experience) "repolarizes" the effect- we can do the same with you, since your stealing the motion is really close to using kinetic energy manip to freeze someone in time, cutting even from the flow of kinetic energy that's timestream.
Since those powers are active since prep (we have all the experience of New Son, since we've temporary resurrested him in last round from his psyche\memories and those were shared with the Terminatrix Prime), then you have ZERO advantage inititative no matter how fast you are. As I've said, in prep we use those powers to control molecular motion inside Shifter's body, accelerating it if needed.
Here New Son talks about training Gambit to use his kind of power- he has him to perform the trick opposed to Flash's vibration through the matter- accelerate the molecular motion in the knife so that it phases through his body without causing any harm.
Gambit proves himself capable student as here he tortures Mystique by destabilising her form via kinetic acceleration of molecules.
So speeding up the processes inside Shifter's body is totally plausible. Note- despite having Gambit's powerset from Cerebra, you don't have access to New Son's powers- Gambit had New Son's powers for 10 issues exactly and ended up returning to his normal low meta level. So New Son is our "joker card" - assisted by Vulcan's and Winter's templates.

Once you don't have any initiative in manipulating our kinetic energy- and your style of kinetic steal can be countered, as proven, it doesn't have to be Iceman-like one to be resisted, sophisticated ones like using kinetic energy manip to put somebody out of timestream can be resisted, as shown above- your point about matter manipulating Shifter's body goes to the dustbin. Why?
In conscious state Shift and Metamorpho both have resisted their bodies being matter manipulated:

Since there most likely won't be instant kinetic energy steal, then no offencive matter manip for you- no UNCONTERABLE offencive matter manip.

Now to free solar energy for everyone part. You're right, Apollo can be overloaded by solar energy- when Winter (whose powers we have as well, BTW) became living embodiment of the sun, he did that to him- or at least attempted.
But the thing is, we've changed him in a technoorganic Adaptoid during prep and gave him the template of Superman... We also used Lightray's powers to sundip him for nearly a week... and guess what happened when you sundip Supes to the extreme?
All-Star Supes. I'm aware I won't be able to hold that kind of power for too long- I'm realist. But most of that power (thank you for it, BTW) would be directed towards you in the blast like the one that sterelised the moon... or the one that damaged continent-sized space station:

Just HUGELY increased in magnitude. So don't worry, I won't be holding that power for too long- just long enough to make cookies out of you.

Charlotte DeBel
As for Stormwatch database, well- that's very interesting thing, but I'll concentrate on that later- like on Skyfather level body Henry Bendix was able to make for his mind using the templates of powersets of any Stomwatch members. And given the ending of Authority Prime- the backup copy of that data still exists. At least knowing Bendix and properties of Infonet, it's more gettable than Garrison Kane's database you've tried to copy last round.
Just a glimpce of it- Winter (this time not amped, in a body cloned by Doctor using the very data on Stormwatch powerset- consciousnss being transferred from the trap in the sun by Battalion, whose template we also have) manipulating solar charge in Apollo's body.
His powers also allow to convert positive energy into negative and vise versa- also handy against kinetic energy steals\negation.
So his powerset will be handy in any of our energy manipulating actions, or in making Apollo's own solar absorbtion much more effective that it is on normal level, giving him better control- along with Supes', Winter and Vulcan's powersets would make sure there will be no overload and your team would be easily fried.
I's like to remind that Stormwatch powersets are among the only ones making difference in our powerlist.

Now to your other argument. Aka covering surface of Shifter into antimetal would kill our own team- not going to happen. Antimetal is 1 mile deep out of 200 miles of Shifter's mass- less than 1% of him, and we have access to three types of metal to make good shielding for us- Interon (has superdense molecular structure, totally unbreacable and unlikely to let anti-metal radiation through), Captain America's shield and Uru (due to Mjolnir template- Super Adaptoid was never capable to replicate Mjolnir fullym but that was about enchantments and not molecular structure, and Uru has blocked anti-metal radiation successflly enough to make a good shielding). You, on the other hand, never mentioned your spaceship being made of any of that, protected by electromagnetic\gravitational\psionic field or anything. So if anyone dies from antimetal tonight, that will be you.

psycho gundam
^all that plus their mind's are wiped.... big grin

hmm, so you ARE using mile-thick anti-metal?? you know it was theorized that if the vibranium mound in wakanda were anti-metal, is would liquify ALL THE METALS ON THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA! you are surrounding the entire surface of the PLANET with it a mile thick. no expression not that it would matter much to me -- nothing metal on my guys to actually damage and it is perfectly logical (in fact, the judges seemed to think it was assured in the last rd . . .) that i could use my OWN energy manipulation skills from one of my adaptoids to simply negate the anti-metal radiation, or at the very least, SHIELD myself from its effects BEFORE it did me or my teammates any harm. smile

and i already explained last round that inertron<adamantium and small pieces of anti-metal have destroyed adamantium. you really are screwed in that regard . . . and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the uru the adaptoid manufactures is the same as real uru. same goes for the shield.

as far as the techno-organic adaptoid 'stacking' powers. i WISH you could have proven that. sad when belova battled the avengers she was using a wide range of abilities, but each was being used singly. she didn't possess the strengths of warbird, ironman and sentry -- least that was never said or indicated in any way. she simply had sentry's strength.

there is -- i repeat -- no evidence whatsoever that these types of adaptoids can stack powers. i really WISH there was . . .

as far as the rest: none of those energy manipulators you're accessing have ever shown any kind of kinetic energy control -- not the type you're hoping for. really, i don't have any idea WHAT they could do with kinetic energy -- next to nothing going by on-panel evidence. erm

and regardless, it doesn't matter in the least. there is no 'tug-of-war' for the energy. i react faster than you. i arrive on the planet, steal your speed, cut you off from all contact with kinetic energy (speed force supercedes kinetic energy as my previous scan showed) and it's over.

once your speed is gone, you are basically sitting ducks and we can do whatever we want. disassemble you molecule by molecule, transmute you into cute little chipmunks, chop you into pieces with the axe, drop suns on you . . .

serioulsy, at that point there are simply too many options to even try and list them.

we're faster. you lose. simplicity itself. erm

Great match Charlotte/Leo.

Gundam. Blair. no expression


psycho gundam
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Great match Charlotte/Leo.

Gundam. Blair. no expression what?....we are psi-cloaked, he won't even realize we are present. and during his confusion he gets turned into an invalid...cake walk.

and the bit about being "faster than instantaneous travel"...... what the fu(k does that even mean? for real, not even pretaining to this battle I just want to know what that implies and what heavy drugs the flash writers were on.

Eel O'Brian
Originally posted by psycho gundam
what?....we are psi-cloaked, he won't even realize we are present. and during his confusion he gets turned into an invalid...cake walk.

and the bit about being "faster than instantaneous travel"...... what the fu(k does that even mean? for real, not even pretaining to this battle I just want to know what that implies and what heavy drugs the flash writers were on. Food for thought:

Post more.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Food for thought:

Post more.

laughing out loud

don't you have your own match to be worrying about . . . aka: butt out. no expression

and psi-cloaked?? i have the SAME level of psionic power and cosmic awareness, not to mention micrscopic vision and about a thousand other extra-sensory abilities to use. no one is turning anyone on our team into an invalid. laughing out loud anything you can do, i can do. only faster. even if i didn't WANT to instantly steal your speed, i could easily stalemate you long enough telepathically to steal it, or have a dupe steal it. even my MIND functions at a FAR faster rate than your guys'. trying to actually get into any sort of tp war with me would likely end very badly for you guys. like 2 swords men battling, only one of them is a million times faster than the other one. erm

besides (something i've neglected to mention) -- please explain and prove to the judges how anyone on your team would even FIND me moving at the speeds i enter the match. flash can and HAS outrun telepathy (jonnz lost tp contact with flash who simply accelerated and outran the tp connection -- scan available on request) in the past. so you can't see me, and can't use your mind to sense me. perhaps you have other sensory abilities that would allow you to find me, but that would take time -- by THAT time, all your speed is long gone and you're dead.

it's irrelevent though -- at the speed my mind is working, my cosmic awareness and sensory abilities and my OWN vast psi-powers, would locate you instantly and your speed would be gone before you could even enter into a psi-battle with me.

as regards your tk freezing (again, something i neglected to mention) -- the very unfortunate part for you is that threnody's MIND is still functioning in that scan. even if by some miracle someone thought you could somehow get the drop on us and freeze us telekinetically (and the only way to ensure they did that was how??? by using tk to freeze not just us, but the ENTIRE PLANET which is btw, TWICE as large as the EARTH!!) my MIND still functions at hyperspeeds. the instant you attack us with your minds (if anyone actually believes you can tk freeze a planet TWICE as large as the whole earth!) we'd know where you were and that's all the info i need to steal your speed and shut off your powers -- or i could just have vulcan do that. or i mess with the neuronal speed of your brains via my own tp while waging psi-combat:

kinda hard to do anything when i've altered the speeds in your mind. but still, stealing it is easiest and the most sure-fire way to a win.

your prep is so convoluted that i STILL don't quite understand it all. the only way you have of trapping us and getting any of your other attacks to work is by tk freezing a planet twice as large as the earth. no expression the devices you are making, the size of everything, the ANTI-METAL that would destroy all your tech??

it's too much, and we're too fast.

psycho gundam
no, all of that was insinuations on your part, i never mentioned holding any planets in telekinetic force.

what a telepathic cloak is in a nutshell is the ability to be in effect undetectable. like an opaque substance in blackness, the signals that tell your brain's we are there don't make it there so you are oblivious to us even if we are standing in front of you.

we have three top notch psychics and the power of nate grey backing it and all of them individually can perform psi-cloaks so together it's elementary.

and psychic energy is omni directional, unless directed towards an individual thats why when the average telekinetic mutant's power awakens objects all over the room starts to fly about.
prefessor xavier has performed planet wide mind scans before(and the trio of psychics can back him) so finding a moving needle in a hey stack isn't as hard as it seems.

and that clown that you have getting downed by flash is by no means
legion level, let alone legion + exodus + xavier + nate' power backing synced.

you can be as fast as you want to be but it won't matter if you don't know we are there. then it's curtains for your team.

Charlotte DeBel
Charlotte's post #6 of 8

Explained when? Inetron never was shown to be>>>> adamantium on panel, AFAIR. Sentry has bent and broken one of Wolverine's claws- Validus failed to break out of Inetron cage. Also there's primary and secondary adamantium- secondary being a little bit more than glorified steel and I easily do believe it was destroyed by anti-metal.
Uru has resisted anti-metal on panel (due to structure and not enchantments), and it's also replicable. Not to mention we (staying NOT on that surface, but in the middle of a planet- we're not coming to the surface, except maybe Apollo- who was given more than enough powers to defend himself- telekinetic shields, gravity shields, electromagnetic shields, negating their energy or more likely redirecting it (having one Terminatrix dupe on energy monitoring duty that's the most plausible defence, so the energy will be coming only in one direction, towards you)- anything to stop small vibration frequency which is anyways<<speed of light (tourney cap speed) which is plausibly reachable since we CAN use powers of multiple indiividuals. Belova hasn't shown upper limits in what she's copied. As for never mentioning using the strength of opponents- Warbird was weaker than Senrty, she's barely class 100, so stacking strength to the one of Supes' cheap ripoff was uunsignificant.

Flash thought too fast for someone to read his thoughts- well, that doesn't even matter as we won't be trying to read his thougths- we'll be killing him.
As for putting up omnidirectional stasis field...
Here it's stated, than all-out Nate has enough TK to extinguish stars- AKA normal sized stars- with little effort. He confirms that by overloading the Great Beast Tundra, who is a skyfather level being capable on feeding on stars\planets to the point of big kaboom.
Nate's powers tripled and backed up by Legion and Exodus, whose powersets are amped= have fun being surrounded in stasis field.

As for kinetic energy steal- once again, you're trying to INTERRUPT the action, that was started in prep and is carried out by at least three top level energy manipulators vs your two (Savitar and Vulcan). Throw that scan around all you wish- you're not outracing anything here, as you're interrupting the action started in prep. Repolarising your assault on our energy so that energy will come towards us, negating the sucking, is child's play. Show me Savitar beating another top-notch kinetic energy manipulator and we'll play. From what I know, never happened. Especially the one who uses kinetic energy to manipulate time itself.
The only time Flash (in the state you've describing- totally connected to the Speedforce, outracing teleportation and blah-blah-blah) went against somebody with control over time among his abilites (Zom, and Zom has nothing on New Son in the regard of controlling time- he isn't capable on existing totally outside of timeframe), he got pwned and pwned really hard.
So even Flash knows that it's silly to try and outrace time manipulator.
That's the thing about psionically eracing our presence Gundam's talking about. You have cosmic awareness- not that it's matters as spying during prep isn't allowed- and we have one themselves, from 3 different sources.

Charlotte DeBel
More on your speed problem.

Flashes state that stealing Zoom's speed fails, failed and will fail by simple reason- he glides along the timestream while connected to the point outside of it. You may ask- "that half-Russian girl must have gone crazy... how is Zoom thing connected to the New Son?".

Let's explain that. Zoom got his powers by being connected to the wormhole outside of our universe.
New Son tried to use his absolute control over kinetic energy to turn the flow of the time backwards and redo the events he has caused by destroying his universe's Earth. He fails and creates wormhole that allows him to travel the multiverse. Zoom can't travel backwards at all. As for moving forward the timestream- it's pretty easy, according to New Son, as when Gambit was granted New Son's powers (ZERO experience of them ,while we have ALL) he time-jumped from Victorian England into present MU effortlessly.
Result of New Son's actions- a wormhole, a breach in the multiversal spiral.
The guy has created the base (Crystal Cathedral) outside the flow of time and space, using his kinetic energy control. "A hideaway outside of time and space"

He can actually "freeze" other beings in time by cutting them off any aspect of kinetic energy, including the timestream.

So stealing the speed of someone with that power and experience is close to attempts of stealing Zoom's speed which has been proven utter failure. New Son's powerset is assisted by Vulcan's and Winter's one (and Winter's template is another one that I have and you never downloaded) and if anything New Son's overall power over timestream is>>>Zoom.

Charlotte DeBel
And now to the point of TP. AKA a few simple facts.
Telepathic communication doesn't equal offensive telepathy.

Moving faster than light doesn't instantly makes one faster than thought. OK, he can run too fast for stable TP connection being possible, but I think that the real reason was him speeding up his thought processes. That was brought in that SS vs Flash thread, I know, but never was analysed properly. You presented "cutting off TP communication" as a counter for the fight. Communicating and attacking are two different things. I can show you the same Martian's astral projection beating up Flash- so speed clearly isn't an issue when it comes to offensive TP.
A psionic projection slaps Flash into the face.
Flash going on the incredible speeds doesn't interrupt TP link. It's all relative and one instance doesn't mean Flash (or Savitar in that case) is immune to TP- I'm talking about Flash since you're using him as a benchmark.

What's more, those two events even doesn't actually contradict. One can move too fast for a telepath to "grab hold" on his thoughts- but when the aim isn't psi-link but a mindfry. You don't need to be Flash to make it impossible for telepaths to grab your conscious thoughts. Well, Flash (Wally) himself is afraid of mindfry. Just because he moves too fast for his thoughts to be decyphered means close to nothing. Telepathy is instant and its speed is certainly more than speed of light.

I don't see Savitar faring well against mindblast on that level- not even with Vulcan's powerset. Than was unamped, unassisted (almost) Xavier.

Also you asked for more proof of planetary level stasis field other than on-panel power description?
A Moon gets blasted into pieces with a TK blast. That display of power shows that "extinguishing the stars" level of TK isn't that impossible neither it's a hyperbole.

Now to the "outracing instanteous travel". Instanteous travel in it's essence is teleportation, and moving from point A into point B faster than someone manages to teleport there isn't the thing that makes it the end all speed feat. Though that was all explained a post above- "brushing the Speed Force" isn't end all be all thing and I won't be going over it again.

Thank for the good match, Leo. You certainly had me to do lots of researchsmile

psycho gundam
a little light on the vibranium "radiation"

A regular-sized iceberg was good enough to cancel out the vibration frequency of several of tons of anti-metal.
Now, we have a mile of anti-metal vs 198 miles of other materials (and all our metallic stuff is made of alloy of Cap America's shield, Inetron and Uru) .
The relative percentage is even smaller than here, in iceberg's case- I'm not that stupid to commit suicide.

Captain America's shield material is actually really good as a shielding- seeing as Black Panther's suit of wakandan vibranium didn't get turned into nothingness.
The waves are also pretty slow, meaning we can redirect it from us in any manner we wish.

the thing about vibranium is that it doesn't "radiate" like plutonium 238 or uranium 235, it has a constant vibrational frequency that matches all frequencies of metallic substances causing them to vibrate to liquid.

but, they can be blocked by glacial ice (see above scan), a force field or more importantly the alloy making up captain america's shield will not only block but reflect the vibrations.

Charlotte DeBel
Working scans:

just so's you don't think i'm being cheap, i'm telling you guys in advance that i can't post right now. i will try and slide i post in before the time limit though and rebut some of the points you have both raised. it may seem like i'm trying to sneak a last post in under the gun, but i just walked in from work and have to run back out. like i said, i'll try and get one more post in.

and thanks cdb. it has been an entertaining match. though i'm wondering if the scoring on this shouldn't be of the handicap variety . . . shifty

Blair Wind
Light vs Thought:
It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles

Light is much much faster than that, and considering that our team can go faster than that, I see no reason to believe that you can convincingly attack us with a PSI stop.

Astral BS
I also see no reason to believe any of the BS you guys sprout about resurrecting people in the astral plane and getting their powers. It has been said in the past matches and I truly feel like the entire list of judges have rightfully been ignoring it. Why? Because it makes no stinking sense. You do not have New Sun, no matter how much you wish you did. We do however have Savitar who is on Leo's team and an established speed force user. The speed stealing? You have no truly foundational counter for it at all.

Plan, huh?
Beyond that I am STILL at a loss for what you guys are planning. Leo has taken point because I was wondering what you guys were doing. You basically terraformed the planet with Anti Metal? and then uh...built tech? uzzah? No comprehende. Also, who ever gave you the specifics on how to create Inertron? I gave my team a covering, how did you end up with it?

Suns attack formation delta. Plan? Blow shit up
Beyond all this you have to realize our plan of attack trumps yours by a landslide. Savitar goes down there before you can think, react, or act. The suns are dropping into the planet, gravity is bringing them all together, and a hot toasty surprise is waiting for you. You cannot beat that. You cannot survive that. Especially in the resulting explosion that would occur (and for those who wonder about my spaceship, Brainiac 5 can create spaceships that go hyper lightspeed.) Really, it was not lazyness but the biggest explosion of an attack you have ever witnessed in tournament history. Cheap? Maybe. Effective? Always.

You cannot deny the fact. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be blown to pieces.

I'm really sorry Leo, and everyone. Had an unexpected weekend where I was not home or able to really get online...that and I didnt understand their prep laughing out loud

laughing out loud

no problemmo. wink

i'll second most of what bw said. when nate resurrected maddie, he did it UNCONSCIOUSLY. much the same way kyle made green lightning. resurrecting new son is a HUGE stretch -- especially given that maddie herself was a powerful psi so traces of her might be believeable. new son? why would he leave traces in the astral plane? and the source of zoom's power is time itself. the source of new son's powers is an x-gene. no expression

astral resurrection=dubious at best of new son. a point i neglected to mention as well -- even if you did resurrect him, he was INSANE. why wouldn't he just kill all your guys in prep? again, too much left up to chance, too dubious and too many things that can go wrong. erm in fact, so complex, that apparently gundam himself didn't know that for the whole thing to work, you needed to tk freeze the entire planet! laughing out loud

again -- finding you wouldn't be an issue. you said you were cloaked telepathically. so? vulcan can and has both used, controlled AND shut-off tp abilities in the past. i wouldn't need my psi-guys to find you. you are EXPENDING tp energy to cloak yourself. vulcan would sense that energy and simply follow it. finding you would NOT be an issue.

as far as nate -- blowing up a small moon<<<<<<<tk freezing a planet twice the size of earth.

again -- no proof of adaptoid stacking (which limits you considerably because you are then forced to use only ONE psi-guy at a time and NOT vast combinations of people like you are inferring . . .) you do not have cap's shield material or uru. seriously. no expression the adaptoid makes REPLICAS. not the real deal. besides, without enchantments, uru isn't really great -- it's been shattered with a co2 blast! laughing out loud

nate extinguishing stars IS hyperbole. when he overloaded tundra, he did so with other-earthly energy. tundra is an earth god. it wasn't nate's power, it was the TYPE of power that tundra couldn't handle . . .

you keep assuming your energy manipulators can somehow manipulate kinetic energy in some way that will help you. first, you have NO examples of ANY of them doing anything with KE. second -- it wouldn't matter. you wouldn't be ABLE to access the KE as i would be preventing you from ACCESSING it in any way. and i could drain it faster than you could absorb it.

you still never proved how you would find me. your only reply is to tk freeze the whole planet using a character resurrected from the astral plane before i can find you. no expression and even if you DID that, somehow . . . i am your equal in psi-power WITH A FASTER MIND. as soon as we entered psi-battle, i'd OWN you. my thoughts and attacks would be FAR faster than anything you could counter. and of course i'd then know EXACTLY where you are.

you say you build this huge void-sucking . . . thing, but with our tech guys and speed, we could easily negate that effect even if you could somehow use it. not to mention i could access blink anyway . . .

and having a bunch of suns falling on you might put a crimp in the whole freezing the planet thing . . . erm

to even have a CHANCE in this match, you need a hundred things to first be believed, THEN to work AND you literally need to KILL all of us before we simply find you. if you don't kill all of us instantly, YOU die. NOTHING you've come up with (and really, what WAS your offense? void sucking, adhesive . . . thing, mindrape??) is capable of that as i've shown repeatedly we can easily counter or stalemate everything you've thrown at us.

i just need a nano-second to steal your speed and it's over.

and it is. smile

still have a couple posts left so . . .

just to reiterate -- inertron was broken by mon-el, superboy and validus. it would be disintegrated by that much anti-metal.

psi-combat: they die as i'm mentally far faster and would have direct access to their minds to screw with with the speed force. smile

their adhesive thingy . . . confused blink let's me teleport out or we blast out, i vibrate out or we . . . fly. no expression

tk feeze the whole planet?? with someone resurrected from the astral plane who even if you did believe it, would probably kill them all and ask questions later. but the real question is: THEN what? even FROZEN we would beat you. i would know where you are and steal your speed because my MIND remains free.

too complicated, too many things can go wrong and even if all things went RIGHT, you'd STILL lose.

good match guys. smile

An unholy alliance indeed...

This is done, yes? I'll vote later on tonight.

K, running commentary as I read through the match. Please note, early opinions may be subject to later evidence/arguments.

Simplicity vs. prep city

Seems to be charlotte's adaptive-ness vs. leo's speed. Was leaning toward charlotte initially. But duplicating speed force access seemed sketchy, and leo rightly called her out on it. Ironically, I don't see the suns as a huge issue. Durability + shielding + speed + absorption of pretty much every team means that they'd be effective but not fatal to most.

Hasn't addressed telepathy. Seems an edge to charlotte.

To answer leo's question, Apollo can survive in a sun, and has done so more than once. Though Cpt. Atom tweaked his body with some matter manip once to overload him. So he has a limit, but probably wouldn't reach it by passively existing in a sun.

Mile-deep anti-metal. Yeah, Iron Man hid behind a rock once, but it was a piece of AM that was maybe the size of a few bricks. A mile's worth of the stuff would be emanating like crazy. Not sure what I think about it yet, but charlotte's playing with fire here.

It hasn't been brought up, but what's stopping Black Box from ganking tech-info from charlotte's team, especially in characters who essentially store info like a computer database (like Angie, for example)?

Love the Void-negation Char, but Angie had direct access to Nate. I don't see the same trick working remotely, so I have to wonder how an undoubtedly faster team would allow you the opportunity to remove it.

But props on lending doubt to the un-copy-ability of the speed force with the GL scans. Noted.

Damnit. Forgot about Winter overloading Apollo. Way to remember stuff Charlotte. You're the only person who still surprises me with Authority stuff that I forget occasionally. Winter can be overloaded too, though. You overstated his powers a bit, impressive as they are.

Adaptoid's Mjolnir isn't enchanted Uru. Not really helping the cause when you're starting to look for ways of getting out of the anti-metal jam. Though gundam's example with the iceberg laid to rest some of my fears about it.

...k, getting toward the end. Summary time:

In matches like these, I work with what I can know, rather than what might be true. I'm actually able to accept most of both teams' prep, given their personel and meshes. But that the speed force might be copy-able, and was done so through vastly different means than charlotte would be employing, leads me to give it the thumb down

...a mind-rape is entirely possible imo, which is the biggest edge gundam/char has, but amidst the chaos and blinding speed, I see it a concerted mind-assault as being harder to pull off, especially when its uncertain what kind of speeds they'd be operating at (arguing with your own kinetic energy users helped you charlotte, but I can't shake the feeling that Savitar and friends would be able to do a fair amount of kinetic draining even despite some countermeasures). Some of them are also going to be psi-defended to a point (though not all of them), whereas the only sure counter to the kinetic drain was copying the speed force, which like I said seems too suspect to me to seriously consider. So it was speed or psi, and I see more pros on the speed side.

I don't think the anti-metal is a concern, but the above couple paragraphs is what it boils down to for me. Others may see the same points and vote differently. Close match.

Vote: leo/Blair

Well here it goes. This is the type of match I like to read but is difficult to judge. Both plans need a leap of faith to some degree. I'll make this short because my vote came down to a few points. First the opening posts.

Leo/BW: Six suns left left me with a bit of a WTF moment. I wasn't buying 6 suns but 1 or 2 are within reason imo and all that's needed, for rell. And 1 or 2 is all that's needed. I was cool with everything else though.

Char/PG: I didn't believe everything they stated was absolutely proved but most was close enough imo.

Both teams left some things open to speculation and imagination but I was buying most of what they offered.

I'm thinking the tech and psi powers are close to even between the two teams. Nothing stood out a a great advantage but Char has the psi powers better explained and proved.

It seems Team Leo/BW had Team Char/PG backing up after the opening posts due to the speed stealing. Team Char/PG did a very good job countering and making a case for their team

So I'm left wondering if Team Leo/BW can detect Team Char/PG for the speed steal. I'm saying yes, they can. Team Char/PG has some scans to suggest they have powers over kinetic energy. But the Speed Force is a cosmic force which I've never seen trumped.

Team Char/PG had a very good and detailed plan but I just don't see a counter to the speed stealing. It has been stated that high end speedsters move faster than thought. I know Team Char/PG have speedsters but it came down to the Speed Force imo. I believe that Team Leo/BW will have the edge in the first picoseconds with the speed steal thus leaving them on the planet with the suns and no speed to deal with.

My vote is for team Leo/ a picosecond.

I do want to make a special note that Team Char/PG made a great case and I think their plan was very solid. I enjoyed the depth and versatility.

It's just as well that both Bada and Digi voted before I did. To be honest, there was tons of hokey nonsense in both teams' strategies about which I had serious doubts. At this point, I don't really know who I would've voted for...

Anyway, congratulations to both teams. I really hope I don't have to read this much in another match... uhuh

Originally posted by batdude123
It's just as well that both Bada and Digi voted before I did. To be honest, there was tons of hokey nonsense in both teams' strategies about which I had serious doubts. At this point, I don't really know who I would've voted for...

Anyway, congratulations to both teams. I really hope I don't have to read this much in another match... uhuh

Yes, an entire one and a half suffer for your art.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

stick out tongue

Originally posted by batdude123
It's just as well that both Bada and Digi voted before I did. To be honest, there was tons of hokey nonsense in both teams' strategies about which I had serious doubts. At this point, I don't really know who I would've voted for...

Anyway, congratulations to both teams. I really hope I don't have to read this much in another match... uhuh

"hokey nonsense." no expression

Originally posted by batdude123
It's just as well that both Bada and Digi voted before I did. To be honest, there was tons of hokey nonsense in both teams' strategies about which I had serious doubts. At this point, I don't really know who I would've voted for...

Anyway, congratulations to both teams. I really hope I don't have to read this much in another match... uhuh You're like a lady. duryes

Originally posted by leonidas
"hokey nonsense." no expression And mumbo jumbo, for rell. uhuh

stick out tongue


Originally posted by leonidas
bada-->conk<--leo That's not keeping it rell. uhuh

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yes, an entire one and a half suffer for your art.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

stick out tongue

An entire page and a half of convoluted garbage... uhuh

Originally posted by leonidas
"hokey nonsense." no expression


Originally posted by Badabing
You're like a lady. duryes

And you're gay, for rell. malfoy

like you could have done better . . .



Originally posted by batdude123



unpinning . . .

big grin

(closest i'll ever get to being a mod . . . erm )

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