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Jack Nicholson portrayed an awesome Joker but if you get down to it, he basically played himself if he had gotten drunk on Halloween. Still, he's the best live action Joker to date but Heath Ledger is bringing something totally new to the role. He's going to bring in a darker version of the character and I don't see many people hating his Joker.

I post this in another thread but I am gonna post it here as it is relevent to the thread. (Warning Long Post)

I have three main problems with Jack`s performance as The Joker.

1. Too big of a name for the role- His casting meant huge number of people were going to pour into cinemas just to see the movie thats all fine and well. But I feel he was too big a name for the role and people see him as a big legend that they wanted to preserve this because of what they think of "Jack" outside of his acting. And if you don`t believe me all you have to do is watch the extras for on the Batman DVD when doing the makeup for Jack they said they wanted to preserve as much as Jack as possible now in my exprince as a Drama student you are supposed to sink into a role that you almost become unregoniseble thats like acting 101. Ledger did this perfectly but unforuntnly the people working on the movie did not see it this way because of Jack`s name and they wanted to preserve that which was just wrong.

2. Joker in the comics is Batman`s arch nemesis and in the movie it did not feel like that at all and they had to dramatically change the source material to make it this way which was just wrong imo. Now from what I have seen from Ledger he seems more of the joker from the comics he seems to have really caused Batman troubles and looks like he will become Batman`s arch nemesis in the movie unfourtnaly the way Jack`s Joker was written he did not come across as the arch nemesis that has caused batman so much pain like in the comics.

3. Jack did get the sick twisted humor of the Joker down to a t in this movie but from interviews with Burton I think thats all he understood of the Joker character this dark sick twisted sense of humor and Jack`s joker did not come across as threatening really.

In conclusion I don`t think Jack`s Joker was all that bad he had some pretty good moments in the movie but it was not consistent with the comic book Joker which I think Ledger has already played so successfully from what I have seen. I think if Jack played Joker like he played his role in The Shinning he would have been a much better and scarier Joker+ if he was written better without him killing Batman`s parents angle and just hurt Batman in a way or really caused Gotham City chaos then he would have been better. Jack is not a bad actor imo it was just how The Joker was written and how he performed him left much to be desired imo and imo really overrated.

As for Heath Ledger`s Joker okay his look might not be 100% to Comic Book Joker but to me he is still regonisble as The Joker. But as from what I have seen so far he has beaten Nicholson, Ledger`s Joker is the Joker from the darker Batman stories such as Arkham Asylum, The Killing Joke and his early apprences. To me Nicholson was an extension of Ceaser Romero`s Joker for the 80s but with a bit more of a dark humor added in there, Ledger`s Joker is gonna push the envlope he is dark, scary and still has that twisted sense of humor but most importantly of all in this movie people are gonna realise why he is Batman`s arch nemesis which in the previous incarnations apart from TAS series they have never really gotten right.

Jack was very good and so was the original Batman '89. Just because I'm in the Nolan camp now doesn't change that. I loved that film as a kid, and still appreciate it today.

The Jack performance was as many have said, "Jack playing Jack." More often then not, he comes off as this goofy fat uncle type of guy.

That said, he has 4 or 5 truly awesome "Joker moments in the film"

1.) When the doc tells him he can only do so much and he smashes the mirror, rips the bandages off and leaves cackling.

2.) When he zaps the mob boss and sings and cackles again.

3.) When he asks Bruce if he's ever danced with the devil and then shoots him in the apartment very casually.

4.) When Batman is on the ledge and he's stomping the bricks and laughing.


But.....(not having actually seen all of Ledgers performance yet) it appears that rather than 4 or 5 great Joker moments what we'll be getting from Heath is a performance that is complete. An entire new character from beginning to end. This character, different from the comics in some ways, will be what we'll have to decide on. Is it a better version of Joker or not?

My money is on it being better.

Sir. Michael Caine and Gary Oldman say he blows Jack's portrayal out of the water, and everything of Heath's performance we've seen so far backs up their claims. I see no reason to think it will be otherwise.

i saw Batman '89 yesterday and i constantly keep asking myself this (thread) question. And honestly i don't know. Both are incredibly good actors. Jack Nich won a best actor Oscar before and Heath was the youngest dude to be nominated for best actor by the Oscars for BareBack Mountain.

I think both may be on par with each other. The only thing that i think would be the determining factor would be looks. And Heath would win that contest kinda. Cause of the slim factor. But the new grungy look is something i haven't gotten used to yet, but a slim joker is what i grew up with, but Jack Nich had the kinda perfect Joker face. Like facially, Jack Nich looks more like a Joker that Heath's facial Joker. I think Jack Nich's laugh is better too, but a fat Joker? Never got over that, my take.

Originally posted by Mr Shindiggery
I post this in another thread but I am gonna post it here as it is relevent to the thread. (Warning Long Post)

I have three main problems with Jack`s performance as The Joker.

1. Too big of a name for the role- His casting meant huge number of people were going to pour into cinemas just to see the movie thats all fine and well. But I feel he was too big a name for the role and people see him as a big legend that they wanted to preserve this because of what they think of "Jack" outside of his acting. And if you don`t believe me all you have to do is watch the extras for on the Batman DVD when doing the makeup for Jack they said they wanted to preserve as much as Jack as possible now in my exprince as a Drama student you are supposed to sink into a role that you almost become unregoniseble thats like acting 101. Ledger did this perfectly but unforuntnly the people working on the movie did not see it this way because of Jack`s name and they wanted to preserve that which was just wrong.

2. Joker in the comics is Batman`s arch nemesis and in the movie it did not feel like that at all and they had to dramatically change the source material to make it this way which was just wrong imo. Now from what I have seen from Ledger he seems more of the joker from the comics he seems to have really caused Batman troubles and looks like he will become Batman`s arch nemesis in the movie unfourtnaly the way Jack`s Joker was written he did not come across as the arch nemesis that has caused batman so much pain like in the comics.

3. Jack did get the sick twisted humor of the Joker down to a t in this movie but from interviews with Burton I think thats all he understood of the Joker character this dark sick twisted sense of humor and Jack`s joker did not come across as threatening really.

In conclusion I don`t think Jack`s Joker was all that bad he had some pretty good moments in the movie but it was not consistent with the comic book Joker which I think Ledger has already played so successfully from what I have seen. I think if Jack played Joker like he played his role in The Shinning he would have been a much better and scarier Joker+ if he was written better without him killing Batman`s parents angle and just hurt Batman in a way or really caused Gotham City chaos then he would have been better. Jack is not a bad actor imo it was just how The Joker was written and how he performed him left much to be desired imo and imo really overrated.

As for Heath Ledger`s Joker okay his look might not be 100% to Comic Book Joker but to me he is still regonisble as The Joker. But as from what I have seen so far he has beaten Nicholson, Ledger`s Joker is the Joker from the darker Batman stories such as Arkham Asylum, The Killing Joke and his early apprences. To me Nicholson was an extension of Ceaser Romero`s Joker for the 80s but with a bit more of a dark humor added in there, Ledger`s Joker is gonna push the envlope he is dark, scary and still has that twisted sense of humor but most importantly of all in this movie people are gonna realise why he is Batman`s arch nemesis which in the previous incarnations apart from TAS series they have never really gotten right.

I agree with everything in this post.Jack was pretty much just being Jack in that god awful Burton/Schumacher Batman franchise.Where Ledger from what we know,really sunk into and immersed himself in the role and became the joker from the comics.Yeah writing it so that he killed his parents,really hurt the idea that he was Batmans arch enemy,especially after that idiot Burton had Joker killed. at that point,Batman might as well have hung up the cape and cowl because thats whats motivates him to keep fighting crime is the fact that he CANT get revenge for the person that killed his parents.

Ledger is going to be the better of the two, just from watching the trailers it looked like he did more to prepare for the role and he seems like hes going to be scarier where jack's wasn't all that scary it was more like he was trying to make us laugh

From what I have seen, Ledger, easily. The Sociopathic and deranged killer clown played by Ledger is much more appealing to me.

That's the main reason I think his Joker is going to end up being more well received in the long run.

Originally posted by Il.Mozalini
Sir. Michael Caine and Gary Oldman say he blows Jack's portrayal out of the water, and everything of Heath's performance we've seen so far backs up their claims. I see no reason to think it will be otherwise.

QFT.

Ledger's performance will be iconic.

Jack who?

No

I wont say until I see the movie, but I agree with everyone saying that Jack's Joker was still Jack, its hard to see Heath in this new Joker. I can imagine people who havent been keeping track of the new movie, may be surprised when the scene of him without his makeup comes on, and they go "hey thats Heath Ledger!".

While i like Jacks role, he never got that deep into the villains mind or habits, if it is indeed the case with HL, i believe we will get a more accurate representation of the Jokers madness and cruelty, where jacks joker had the madness it lacked that serious, threatening demeanor, he seemed more like the trickster Joker of the 60's, 70's era.

HL was dedicated to the role and many of his co-stars have backed up claims of his spectacular performance, i see no reason to doubt it, i will like many batman fans enter the theatre with high expectations and i believe like so many of us our confidence is not misplaced.

I guess we can all agree that the best thing about Jack Nicholson's Joker is that it helped spawn TAS Joker who was just badass.

No, the best thing about Jack's Joker was that he TOLD JOKES TO PEOPLE HE RECENTLY KILLED... That is one of the most badass moments in ANY Batman film (besides Keaton's "I'm Batman" and Bale's "Where are you?" "Here..."

herez a few of my favorite things from jack's joker in 89 and wat ive seen of heaths joker from trailers and junk...

jackz:
1the scene wher the dr shows him his face and the joker laughs...FOREVER! his laugh throughout the entire movie is wonderful..its always full, ya know?

2 the joker makin jokes bout dead people that were actually funny (it allowed me to feel evil rite along wif the joker!)

3 the joker messin up that girls face and causin her to kill herself (thats an underplayed effed up aspect to the movie which i loved)

4 the joker invading peoples tvs and tellin them they probably already are going to die from his joker poison cuz his tampered material is already released to the public.

5 the part where the joker is edgin away from batman and then pulls some glasses out of nowhere and goes "you wouldnt hit a guy wif glasses wouldja?!" (actually a lil gud and bad cuz the joker would never run away from batman..but the scene waz hilarious)

6 wher the joker starts laughing super loud and then looks at the gargoyle and goes "WHAT ARE YOU LAUGHING AT?!!" that cracks me up every.. single. time i see it.

7 the joker lying dead with a smile on his face and a prerecorded laugh still goin strong..

now for heath:

1. his entire presence, how hez all hunched over and sorta twitches his mouth and liks his lips every 5 seconds...its creepy.

2. his voice, it sounds funny, like an unhinged cartoon (which is puuurfect)

3. his laugh.. its different than jacks, but still sounds full. if i heard that laugh from a painted faced clown wif a chelsea grin, id prolly never get over it.

4. his degenerating make up (lotz of people dont seem to like it, but i think it just adds to his scary factor.. he starts lookin more and more messed up.)

5. his self established purpose to make batman "break his one rule". thats sooo straight up joker! super evil for no gud reason..

6. that one scene in the imax featurette where batman confronts the joker in the interrogation room, he says "you wanted me, here i am" or something along those lines and then the joker just starts laughin super hard..

7 his smile... wen hez not actually smilin the make up and chelsea grim give him this ominous dark smile and then wen he really smiles it just looks gleeful..in a messed up way..like he seriously enjoys wat he does, which is exactly wat he shud look like.



i cant wait for this movie!

Short answer.... yes

Jack Nicholson's Joker look more evil. Whereas Ledger's looks more psychopath.

Wait till the movie and then we really compare.

yeah the comparisons will REALLY be pouring out then which will be in about a month and a half from now.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Jack Nicholson's Joker look more evil. Whereas Ledger's looks more psychopath.

Wait till the movie and then we really compare.

great idea.

People hate Batman '89 yet it was the movie that, i think, influenced "Batman: The Animated Series" a.k.a. the best batman series in both the live action and cartoon field, ever. Hell, even the cartoon's theme song used the Batman '89 theme/ending song. The cartoon also has the Tim Burton look and feel to it too.

The Dark Knight will be up against some comp. to me..

Hell, "Batman Begins" (which is playing right now on F/X) took the "I'm Batman" from Batman '89 with the way it went.

With the fearful bad guy asking who or what is he then he goes "I'm Batman" while he has the villain by the collor.

Batman: TAS is the best superhero animated series....just thought I'd throw that out there. As for B('89), I don't really see a lot of hate for it now adays. The movie was pretty good so I don't see how people could hate it anyway.

I don't know how it will be yet for Heath's I will have to experience it first. I have to say that so far mostly because of his appearance and a couple minor things I haven't associated the new Joker as THE JOKER yet in my mind. That's based on the Joker I am used to seeing though through out the years.

I didn't see Batman 1989 till after I saw the animated series growing up and I had no problem reconciling Jack Nicholson as the Joker probably because the animated series one was sort of based after him. He fit to me. He was funny, and yet sadistic and he scared me...and at the same time I found myself rooting for him, even though I wanted Batman to win. His best moments in my mind

1) The mirror scene...I think that is one of the great scenes in 80s cinema PERIOD. Him slamming that mirror down, sobbing and then bursting into that maniacal laughter, smashing that light bulb and lurking up the stairs howling in laughter in the dark...if ever there was a moment that I think perfectly capture the Joker's insanity it was that.

2) Storming the mob meeting and then disposing of Antoine the way he did. And joking with his corpse. Classic.

3) Killing Vinny with the poison tipped feather and quipping about the pen being mightier than the sword with the mimes. That scene always creeped me out as a kid.

4) "I'm melting!" "Boo!"

5) His annoyance with Batman stealing the spotlight from him in general was so completely Joker.

6) The commercial for Smilex was crazy good. "Love that Joker!"

7) The parade scene "go with a smile"

9) "You IDIOT! You made me. Remember, you dropped me into that vat of chemicals. That wasn't easy to get over, and don't think that I didn't try!"

10) Him trying to stomp Batman off the top of the cathedral.

The only things in the movie that I felt were more Jack than the Joker was the bird dance maybe and the phantom of the opera ending but to me not distractingly so. I think what I like so much about the Batman 1989 Joker and the Animated series Joker is they had fun while killing people and causing mayhem. You could see the sheer delight and enjoyment that the characters got for upsetting Batman's world.

The new Joker seems to be more dark and brooding and less like he will be enjoying himself much. But I will have to wait and see. I'm expecting a completely different kind of performance. I don't expect one to be better than the other, contrary to that I expect them to be incomparable because they will be so different.

How the **** are we supposed to know???????

I hope Heath's Joker's not too serious. Like he seemed angry in one part where he said "C'mon, hit me!". That part, although sick looking, isn't very Joker-like.

In the comics, every other sentence the Joker says is a sarcastic poetry. Even when he's mad he still fools around but'll still kill you..hehe.

Heath's Joker should be hysterically delirious but in an insane way. The way the comics did it. The way Jack Nich did it in Batman '89.

Yeah so far I haven't seen the Joker say anything particularly funny in the released stuff. Hopefully he gets some jokes off.

Even this semi amateur Joker is somewhat funny, lol
http://youtube.com/watch?v=szAp6gleJd4

Let's do some pics:

Jack

http://dcartnews.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/Jack-as-the-Joker-795919.jpg

Heath

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/301/24840433561c4d00a62anr1.jpg

Notice that Jack's eyes are so sinister looking. Whereas Heath eyes are more manical.

Truth be told....even my nightmares are disturbed by both.

Jack's Joker should lend Heath's Joker the number to his stylist and put him in a chemical bath so his make up doesn't run like that.

Jackie
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh134/FlintStillHatesBandwidth/JackNicholsonasJokerblackwhitewa-2.jpg

Heathy

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l254/fruitnuggets/Tv%20Plays%20Books/joker-1.jpg

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I don't know how it will be yet for Heath's I will have to experience it first. I have to say that so far mostly because of his appearance and a couple minor things I haven't associated the new Joker as THE JOKER yet in my mind. That's based on the Joker I am used to seeing though through out the years.

I didn't see Batman 1989 till after I saw the animated series growing up and I had no problem reconciling Jack Nicholson as the Joker probably because the animated series one was sort of based after him. He fit to me. He was funny, and yet sadistic and he scared me...and at the same time I found myself rooting for him, even though I wanted Batman to win. His best moments in my mind

1) The mirror scene...I think that is one of the great scenes in 80s cinema PERIOD. Him slamming that mirror down, sobbing and then bursting into that maniacal laughter, smashing that light bulb and lurking up the stairs howling in laughter in the dark...if ever there was a moment that I think perfectly capture the Joker's insanity it was that.

2) Storming the mob meeting and then disposing of Antoine the way he did. And joking with his corpse. Classic.

3) Killing Vinny with the poison tipped feather and quipping about the pen being mightier than the sword with the mimes. That scene always creeped me out as a kid.

4) "I'm melting!" "Boo!"

5) His annoyance with Batman stealing the spotlight from him in general was so completely Joker.

6) The commercial for Smilex was crazy good. "Love that Joker!"

7) The parade scene "go with a smile"

9) "You IDIOT! You made me. Remember, you dropped me into that vat of chemicals. That wasn't easy to get over, and don't think that I didn't try!"

10) Him trying to stomp Batman off the top of the cathedral.

The only things in the movie that I felt were more Jack than the Joker was the bird dance maybe and the phantom of the opera ending but to me not distractingly so. I think what I like so much about the Batman 1989 Joker and the Animated series Joker is they had fun while killing people and causing mayhem. You could see the sheer delight and enjoyment that the characters got for upsetting Batman's world.

The new Joker seems to be more dark and brooding and less like he will be enjoying himself much. But I will have to wait and see. I'm expecting a completely different kind of performance. I don't expect one to be better than the other, contrary to that I expect them to be incomparable because they will be so different.

How about an issue of the comic book? Did you ever read the comic book? How about graphic novels and anthologies of the character? Did you ever see those?

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Jackie
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh134/FlintStillHatesBandwidth/JackNicholsonasJokerblackwhitewa-2.jpg

Heathy

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l254/fruitnuggets/Tv%20Plays%20Books/joker-1.jpg

Both look incredibly creepy but in the long run I'd choose Heath Ledger's Joker's look because it looks more gritty.

God, I want to vomit when I see Jack's half-ass joke of The Joker...truly ridiculous.

Originally posted by Il.Mozalini
God, I want to vomit when I see Jack's half-ass joke of The Joker...truly ridiculous.
Half ass? LMAO his Joker at least has the decency to have on full make up and his hair combed

Originally posted by Devil King
How about an issue of the comic book? Did you ever read the comic book? How about graphic novels and anthologies of the character? Did you ever see those?
Yes I've read Batman comics including the Killing Joke and I still think Heath's Joker looks like crap and I am sure there are other people who like the Joker and have been exposed to him in all mediums who feel the same way as well

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Half ass? LMAO his Joker at least has the decency to have on full make up and his hair combed

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, I meant his acting. Seeing his ugly mug reminds of his half-ass acting.

Ah, well I thought his acting was pretty good but different strokes I guess

No. Jack's Joker will likely never be topped

But they both have two completely different approaches to the character. Like everything that has been said above, Jack took more of a sinisterly jestful path while Heath takes it more artfully and tries the sadistic, disturbing, almost feral approach.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Half ass? LMAO his Joker at least has the decency to have on full make up and his hair combed

I think its funny. You'd think the clean cut looking one would be the one that applied make-up while the ugly rigged one would be the one that was burned by acid. Who would have guessed acid makes you look more like a clown than make-up.

Originally posted by Myth
I think its funny. You'd think the clean cut looking one would be the one that applied make-up while the ugly rigged one would be the one that was burned by acid. Who would have guessed acid makes you look more like a clown than make-up.
Well when Batman 1989's Joker unraveled his mask he wasn't looking well put together. His hair was a complete mess, but I am glad he found time to stop and get a comb and clean up pretty good before he offed his boss. LOVE THAT JOKER

Ledger FTW

Originally posted by Emil Blonsky
Ledger FTW


Agreed.. All the pics I have seen and all the reviews I've read all imply the same thing. Ledger's Joker faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar outweighs Jack's Joker. Not just that. It has been rumored around here in L.A. a whole lot that Ledger may receive a posthumous ocsar nomination.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Agreed.. All the pics I have seen and all the reviews I've read all imply the same thing. Ledger's Joker faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar outweighs Jack's Joker. Not just that. It has been rumored around here in L.A. a whole lot that Ledger may receive a posthumous ocsar nomination.

I have heard this as well, Ledger has already beaten JN imo. Also what I`m hearing is that this movie is up there with some of the best Crime Drama movies and transcends the Comic Book movie genre it be great if TDK was nominated for Best Film.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Half ass? LMAO his Joker at least has the decency to have on full make up and his hair combed

exactly.the only half assed Joker here is Ledgers.At least Jacks Joker cares about his appearance.

Would you shut up? If you're not going to contribute to the thread, gtfo.

Anyway, if Heath is nominated for an Oscar, he deserves to win. I've heard so many good things about his movies. Can't wait to see TDK next week.

Originally posted by Mr Shindiggery
I have heard this as well, Ledger has already beaten JN imo. Also what I`m hearing is that this movie is up there with some of the best Crime Drama movies and transcends the Comic Book movie genre it be great if TDK was nominated for Best Film.

Let me guess, you heard that from BOF?

Honestly, they're over-hyping this movie...

Up there with the best crime drama films?

Better than GODFATHER? Better than GOODFELLAS? Better than HEAT?

Maybe the best comic book film, and maybe even the best film of the summer, and MAYBE even best film of the year, but I seriously doubt it's anywhere NEAR Godfather Part II's quality... I just can't see it...

There are many people overhyping this movie. I can't believe people are saying it's the best movie ever....when there are movies like the Godfather & Scarface are out there.

Not a fair comparation because we havent seen the dark knight yet, but Ledger's joker looks far superior to Jack's in the trailers and scenes that we have seen. Never a fan of Jack's joker, too much jack and too little joker. He was jack with a joker costume. Althought he had his good moments, he failed witht the character in my opinion. Also,making him the killer of Bruce's parents was just wrong.

But, i really believe that Heat's joker will surpass easily Jack's joker in the same way that Bale's batman did with Keaton's batman.

I've seen enough scenes to say yes.

Originally posted by bakerboy


But, i really believe that Heat's joker will surpass easily Jack's joker in the same way that Bale's batman did with Keaton's batman.
There are still quite a few people who don't think Bale's Batman is better than Keaton's though. And I think the same will remain for Jack's Joker vs Heath's because they're both so different people are gonna pick which one they like and that will be that IMO. Personally from what I've seen I DON'T like this interpretation of the Joker character but it looks like Heath did a good job with what he was directed to do, so I'm not knocking him for it, this is just to me a completely new kind of Joker and I'll either go in and with the tone and the mood of the movie I will catch on and accept him, or I'll just think it was a mistake but still try to enjoy other aspects of the film anyway.

Keaton's batman was...


lets just say all i saw was beetlejuice ermm

cant picture him as anything else

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Keaton's batman was...


lets just say all i saw was beetlejuice ermm

cant picture him as anything else
Ok well all I can see Bale as is Bateman then LOL I mean that's not true but Keaton owned in the Bat suit. He was NOTHING like Beetlejuice when he was wearing it, or at any other point in the movie.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Keaton's batman was...


lets just say all i saw was beetlejuice ermm

cant picture him as anything else


Not just that. To this day when I watch Batman with Keaton, I just see Mr. Mom in a rubber suit. BALE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>KEATON.

Because Keaton didnt look anything as batman or bruce wayne. I think that he is a great actor, but just wrong for batman. Bale , in the other hand, is even a better actor and just right for batman and bruce wayne.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Ok well all I can see Bale as is Bateman then LOL I mean that's not true but Keaton owned in the Bat suit. He was NOTHING like Beetlejuice when he was wearing it, or at any other point in the movie. The thing about Bale is, when he plays a role, i dont see him as anything else BUT that role in that certain movie


hes my favorite actor because of this



even tho i cracked a joke yesterday saying

"Hello im John Connor and ive been sent back in time to be BATMAN"

but thats besides the point!

Originally posted by bakerboy
Because Keaton didnt look anything as batman or bruce wayne.

That is the most shallow reason to not like an interpretation I have ever heard...

That's like saying Heath Ledger hardly looks like Joker...

And Liam Neeson looks nothing like Ras Al Ghul...

And when did Harvey Dent dye his hair blonde?

But are those interpretations good in their own right? Absolutely...

His interpretation was fine, it's just some fans can't get over the fact that he wasn't every woman's fantasy...

Originally posted by Mairuzu
The thing about Bale is, when he plays a role, i dont see him as anything else BUT that role in that certain movie


hes my favorite actor because of this



even tho i cracked a joke yesterday saying

"Hello im John Connor and ive been sent back in time to be BATMAN"

but thats besides the point!


Young man I agree

Originally posted by Bat Dude
That is the most shallow reason to not like an interpretation I have ever heard...

That's like saying Heath Ledger hardly looks like Joker...

And Liam Neeson looks nothing like Ras Al Ghul...

And when did Harvey Dent dye his hair blonde?

But are those interpretations good in their own right? Absolutely...

His interpretation was fine, it's just some fans can't get over the fact that he wasn't every woman's fantasy...

I do think his Bruce Wayne could've been better but his Batman was straight out of the comics. Dark, brooding, and as quiet as possible when he needed to be. Honestly, I don't see why anything in the 1989 movie gets so much hate because it was so well put together.

Originally posted by Emil Blonsky
I do think his Bruce Wayne could've been better but his Batman was straight out of the comics. Dark, brooding, and as quiet as possible when he needed to be. Honestly, I don't see why anything in the 1989 movie gets so much hate because it was so well put together.

I feel the same way...

His Wayne needed work, but his Batman was the sh*t...

Bale's Bruce Wayne is spot on, but he should take a page from Keaton when it comes to Batman... Then we would TRULY have Batman on the big screen...

And as far as Joker is concerned, Ledger has surpassed Nicholson, which is a shame, because Nicholson could have done so much with the role had he played it a little darker and more psychotic (but still kept the twisted humor)...

But Ledger's Joker is really looking excellent in this movie... Oscar worthy? Maybe, maybe not, but no doubt a great movie villain...

I actually liked Bale's Bruce Wayne, and the whole voice thing, because he's trying to make himself seem as different as possible with both personas instead of using his voice.

I can't say anything about that just yet until next week but I have no doubt I'll love the performance. Heath may be the main factor in me seeing the movie at least twice.

I was wrong. Ledger's Joker was better. I think the role took it's toll on him though. I can see him getting an Oscar for this. & this wouldn't be a pity Oscar either. He really did a great job.

Ledger's Joker>Nicholson's Joker

Originally posted by brainchild81
I was wrong. Ledger's Joker was better. I think the role took it's toll on him though. I can see him getting an Oscar for this. & this wouldn't be a pity Oscar either. He really did a great job.


exactly, from what I have heard I think he would have won it either way.

Im gonna have to say overall, Jacks joker is still better imo. I think that jacks portrayal was closer to the joker that ive seen from the tv series, cartoons and the comics. Jack showed the gadgets as well as showing to be more of a mass killer as to where ledgers joker was a bit more of a 1 to 1. Personality wise, jacks joker was...well...more of a joker, lol.

I like both renditions of Joker by both Jack and Heath, but as a fan of Joker, im gonna hve to say Jacks version was still better. Imo that is.

Ledger's Joker was better as far as the acting, it's not even a contest.

Jack's joker was Jack, you never see past Jack Nicholson in that role. He was Jack first and the Joker second.

Ledger disappeared into the character. You almost didn't recognize him. And his Joker was MUCH MUCH more villainous and monstrous, a better villain.

^ I dont 100% agree. They were kinda like 2 different characters. Ledgers joker role was more drama-like as to where Jacks was more Joker-like imo. I was able to see way past Jack with that role because its totally different from anything Jack has played(next to the shining). Most of Jacks roles are tight and serious and his Joker role was something almost completely different.

I also think Jacks Joker was more villainous and monstrous. Imo, his degree was just a bit higher than Ledgers. 89 Joker wanted to kill people by the hundreds and thousands. It just seemed that 89 Joker operated on a bigger scale.

Most of Jack's roles aren't tight or serious. The roles that he's known for he's always a little out there (The Shining, Cuckoo's Nest, etc.) Jacks Joker wasn't really very different from what he's done in the past. More comical and silly, not scary at all because he was goofy and kinda likeable. Ledger's was not, his was based in reality much moreso than Jack's was, and so his viciousness was more believable in the end.

And from what I've heard Ledger's Joker is MUCH more true to the comcs than Jack's was. Ledger's joker felt like a real pyschopath, like if there was a monstrously insane guy who put on makeup for shits and giggles, you'd expect him to act more like Ledger than Nicholson.

And I'm not talking about scale, scale doesn't matter when a character isn't believable. I can't picture Nicholson's character actually existing, because it's purely comical and mostly cartoony, Ledger's was more plausible, so it made him more frightening.

But yes, they are two very different characters, no doubt.

In about 70% of Jacks roles before 89, his characters were more serious, tight and straightforward type. Cuckoos nest and Shining are 2. There maybe 1 or 2 more out there. Overall, the joker role was something kinda new that we've seen from jack.

Ledgers Joker was nothing short of what we see today pretty much as far as villains go. Someone setting up a bomb etc, etc. You mention Jacks joker being kinda likeable and silly. True, but thats until you realize youre gonna die. Jacks joker gave you more of a wtf? Like throwing a parade and give me money, just to kill me in the end. Like poison my deodorant, mouthwash, toothpaste, hair products, etc then come on tv and tell me you did it while the effects are already starting to take place. Thats way more scary to me.

Cuckoos Nest and Shining are his two most known roles. His Joker feels like a more over the top extension of Jack Torrance from The Shining than something wholly new. It's hard to be new when he's done similar things in the past, which he has.

I'll grant you that the antics of Jack's Joker are more elaborate, but that's because the goal was very different. They wanted to go with an over the top villain and they did. With Dark Knight and Ledger's joker they took a more real world approach, doing things that are believable and that could happen in real life, even doing things referencing actual real life events. And the bottom line, something isn't scary if I can't imagine it happening in real life. If I think something is an utter impossibility then it won't be scary, no matter how cool it may be, period. This is why Ledger's joker and his antics are more frightening to me. They're believable. They can, and have, happened.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Im gonna have to say overall, Jacks joker is still better imo. I think that jacks portrayal was closer to the joker that ive seen from the tv series, cartoons and the comics. Jack showed the gadgets as well as showing to be more of a mass killer as to where ledgers joker was a bit more of a 1 to 1. Personality wise, jacks joker was...well...more of a joker, lol.

I like both renditions of Joker by both Jack and Heath, but as a fan of Joker, im gonna hve to say Jacks version was still better. Imo that is.

Originally posted by jrodslam
89 Joker wanted to kill people by the hundreds and thousands. It just seemed that 89 Joker operated on a bigger scale.

Gothams largest hospital wasn't full of thousands?

Dude, those two boats together had over 500 people in them.

400 something in the civilian boat and like 187 in the prison boat.



I really think your arguing out of fanboyism and not a justifiied opinion. If you like Jack better because of the "blankie" effect, great. Just say so. There's very few things wrong with that.

I have to admit it that I thought that this movie was going to be so over hyped because of the untimely death of Heath Ledger.

However, Ledger gave us quite the proverbial Swan Song.

Jack Nicholson's Joker was nothing more than a regurgitated version of Caesar Romero's Joker from the campy 1960's Batman series with just a splash more of evil.

Ledger, in my opinion, gave such an ecstatic performance, in that he gave us, the viewer, the greatest gift of all: He left us wanting more. This, my internet friends, is the true mark of a talented actor.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Gothams largest hospital wasn't full of thousands?

Dude, those two boats together had over 500 people in them.

400 something in the civilian boat and like 187 in the prison boat.



I really think your arguing out of fanboyism and not a justifiied opinion. If you like Jack better because of the "blankie" effect, great. Just say so. There's very few things wrong with that.

http://i9.tinypic.com/6su42nt.gif

Originally posted by BackFire


And from what I've heard Ledger's Joker is MUCH more true to the comcs than Jack's was. Ledger's joker felt like a real pyschopath, like if there was a monstrously insane guy who put on makeup for shits and giggles, you'd expect him to act more like Ledger than Nicholson.


The Joker in the comics doesn't put on make up for shits and giggles.

Oh.

Guess that means he has nothing in common with the comic book Joker.

Originally posted by BackFire
Oh.

Guess that means he has nothing in common with the comic book Joker.
I'm not saying that. I actually really liked Ledger's characterization and thought it was absolutely perfect for the movie and loved all the stuff that I felt really drew from the Killing Joke comic I was just correcting that minor error you made.

Personally I like Jack's Joker for 1989 and Heath's for The Dark Knight. I'm really not that invested to sit and argue about who was better since they played two different interpretations of the same character in two different interpretations of the Batverse 20 years apart. I could care less.

I didn't make an error. I didn't say that he did that in the comic, simply that Ledger did it in the movie.

O well perhaps I misinterpreted your post. My apologies.

I just got back from watching the Dark Knight and it was one of the finest movies I have ever seen of any genre. I was worried that the acclaim for Ledger's performance was largely due to his death (for the same reason that there are so many Freddie Mercury fanboys), but he deserves every ounce of praise he got. As an actor, Nicholson's accolades outstrip Ledger's by far, but as the Joker, Ledger blew Nicholson the **** away.

I said that Ledger's performance would be better than Nicholson's a while back. I was so totally right in saying that

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
I said that Ledger's performance would be better than Nicholson's a while back. I was so totally right in saying that

Yes, but some people jump the gun and go off spouting he's a better actor... and I wouldn't go that far. Alas, we'll never know. That's the greatest tragedy of this whole affair.

Jack's a great actor, but a lot of the time Jack is portraying Jack. Heath is the better actor in my eyes & comparing any comic villain to Heath should be punishable by a punch to the balls.

to me, it isnt i believe in heath ledger, its heath ledger has made me believe

Ok, after seeing the Dark Knight, I have to say, Ledger IS a better Joker...

BUT...

That doesn't mean we should demean Jack's performance... He was a great Joker back in the day... And I think just because someone came along that was better than him doesn't mean we should completely erase what came before it...

IA Batdude completely. Ledger got to play a more dynamic version of the Joker in a much better film as well.

I'd never demean Jack's performance, but Heath's is just so much better.

Definitely. But some people go too far; Nicholson's legendary. A god amongst actors. Revered, respected, and casts sheer in awe in others. Ledger never got to that point nor will he ever begin to approach Nicholson's legend.

He may not, but he showed that he had potential to be much better than Jack had he survived, and he showed it with the few films he had.

Originally posted by Da Joker
He may not, but he showed that he had potential to be much better than Jack had he survived, and he showed it with the few films he had.

Right. Like "Ten Things I Hate About You" which devastated anything Nicholson's ever done.

This shit is ridiculous. Ledger's Joker puts Nicholson's to total shame, but this movie is the only one other than Brokeback Mountain where Ledger ever got critical acclaim. Two versus Nicholson's... dozens?

I admit that comment made Ledger hella overrated, but he did surpass Nicholson's Joker by a long shot. Ledger could've been better had he gotten to do more films.

Honestly I don't care for Nicholson's Joker.

I always thought he was lame.

I found him to be pretty entertaining. I'm watching him now and I still love the performance. Afterall, had it not been for Nicholson's Joker, we wouldn't have gotten TAS Joker.

Originally posted by Da Joker
Afterall, had it not been for Nicholson's Joker, we wouldn't have gotten TAS Joker.

What?

Explain.

The whole Batman the animated series was based a lot on the Tim Burton movies, specifically dealing with the mood and some character designs.

Thank ya for that explanation.

And what I'm saying is that version of the Joker is thought by many to be the best media incarnation of Mr. J, and I'm saying he probably wouldn't have been that way had it not been for the movies.

Yea I still think Nicholson's Joker deserves a lot of respect even though I prefer Ledger's interpretation a little more as of now. But I do think Jack's Joker was definitely more gimmicky (which I like the Joker to have his own gadgets besides just random dynamite and guns and knives. I liked his flower etc) which I think was sort of missing with this Joker though it never would have fit into Nolan's universe.

So it's not based on Nicholson, it's based on Burton's vision.

Hamil's Joker was partly based on Nicholson's Joker.

http://quizfarm.com/images/1106348058Joker.JPG

Originally posted by Quincy
So it's not based on Nicholson, it's based on Burton's vision.
Jack Nicholson played Burton's Joker...lol

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Jack Nicholson played Burton's Joker...lol

I'm aware of this.

I'm saying that claiming Nicholson is responsible for The Joker in TAS doesn't seem right.

I didn't see he was responsible for him being in the show, just that he was partially responsible for the way they made him in the show.

Originally posted by Da Joker
I didn't see he was responsible for him being in the show, just that he was partially responsible for the way they made him in the show.

Oh alright. word.

Originally posted by Quincy
I'm aware of this.

I'm saying that claiming Nicholson is responsible for The Joker in TAS doesn't seem right.
Yea what Da Joker said. The way the Joker was interpreted for the show was based on Nicholson's performance we're not saying he only existed on the show because of Nicholson.

However, looking at the show as it got older, they seemed to take a much darker tone with the Joker. He was even more vicious than Heath's Joker.

I would say he was about as vicious, but I think he definitely was more theatrical. One of my absolulte favorite animated series Joker moments is when he kidnapped Gordon and company and held them hostage and tortured them and put on that Christmas TV show just so he could lure Batman there to pie him in the face for Christmas. How over the top ridiculous and yet so typical of him, lol

Lol, odd of you to mention that...I have it on a VHS tape I bought a few years ago. And on the back it lists the Joker as 6'5, which means if he fought Heath's Joker he'd have a size advantage.

I was sceptical about Heath's performance as The Joker when I heard he had been cast for the role...

However after watching TDK, I personally think that he did a very good job and that his portrayal of The Joker did indeed top Jack Nicholson's portrayal of The Joker.

Nice to see you liked the performance.

I dont think Ledger had that great of a laugh.
I kinda of frown when Ledger walk in and said, not laugh.

Ha Ha Ha, He He He, Ho Ho ho. I was like what??? That was no laugh, that was him saying the words.

It wasn't meant to be a laugh, he was mocking the mobsters.

Still out of all the Jokers, he had the weakness laugh imo.

Mark had the number 1 spot.
Ceaser had number 2,
I have Jack number 3, and perhaps I consider Ledgers.

He didn't have the weakest laugh, he had the best laugh excluding Mark Hamil's Joker. We got enough laughs out of the new Joker, and all of his were better than that crappy Caesar Romero & Jack Nicholson's as well.

Originally posted by Da Joker
He didn't have the weakest laugh, he had the best laugh excluding Mark Hamil's Joker. We got enough laughs out of the new Joker, and all of his were better than that crappy Caesar Romero & Jack Nicholson's as well.


I concur

Caesar Romero's Joker sucks. Even the make-up was horrible. However, media Joker incarnations have gotten better as time has progressed.

http://www.batmania.com.ar/images/images_revista/joker_13.jpg

http://polivox.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/jack-nicholson_joker.jpg

http://quizfarm.com/images/1106348058Joker.JPG

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2181/joker59cl.jpg

http://media.movieweb.com/galleries/4381/2780/lo/DK-05556.jpg

Ledger's Joker definetely tops Nicholsons Jokers,thats a no brainer.Jack was just being Jack in his portrayel where Ledger WAS The Joker from the comics.

Ledger brought a new depth to the character. Jack was an awesome Joker, but he was only good for a Joker that played pranks.

Originally posted by Da Joker
Ledger brought a new depth to the character. Jack was an awesome Joker, but he was only good for a Joker that played pranks.

Well, he did kill about 15 people in that movie...

-Grissom
-Joybuzzer Scene
-Pen Scene
-Candy Walker
-Amanda Keeler
-the "3 mysterious deaths in a beauty parlor" reported by the anchorman
-the "6 new deaths" reported by the anchorwoman
-Bob

But Ledger's better... Even Jack himself admitted Ledger was better (I posted the quote somewhere around here)

I'm not trying to demean Jack or anything, but I'm saying Ledger's Joker had more depth. And Jack killed way more than 15 people...you have to include Bruce's parents, and all the people that died from the gas he released, so that's at least well over 40-50 people, and maybe more including Eckhart and everyone else he may have killed before then.

Dont forget the news woman that died lol.

Ledger's laugh was not up there with Ceaser's or Jack's imo. Mark had the best of couse.

Originally posted by Da Joker
I'm not trying to demean Jack or anything, but I'm saying Ledger's Joker had more depth. And Jack killed way more than 15 people...you have to include Bruce's parents, and all the people that died from the gas he released, so that's at least well over 40-50 people, and maybe more including Eckhart and everyone else he may have killed before then.

Eckhart and Bruce's parents were before he became Joker, so I don't count them...

And yeah, I forgot about the anchorwoman who died...

And about the parade scene, we only saw 2 people die on screen...

So as it stands right now he has 18 CONFIRMED kills, with many more that he POSSIBLY killed, but we don't know...

Why not include them? He's virtually the same person, and we saw a lot of people fall from the gas, not to mention all the people from the restaurant in which he released the gas, and there were a bunch of people in there.

Originally posted by Da Joker
Why not include them? He's virtually the same person, and we saw a lot of people fall from the gas, not to mention all the people from the restaurant in which he released the gas, and there were a bunch of people in there.

The gas in the museum/restaurant was a different kind of gas... I'm not sure if he actually killed them or not... They didn't have the "Joker laughing fit" or the "Joker grin" when they fell down, they just fell down... Not to mention the gas was a different color (it was a light purple/gray, similar to Penguin's knockout gas from the 60s tv show, while the Smilex gas was green) For all we know, it could have been basic knockout gas...

And after watching the parade scene again, I only saw 2 people actually fall down and die... There were a lot of people running, so maybe a few fell in the background, but I didn't see them...

So as it stands, Jack's JOKER (not Jack's Jack Napier) has 18 CONFIRMED kills, with many more that COULD have happened, but we don't COMPLETELY know...

Dude, the Joker in that movie was completely f'in nuts, do you think he's really going to use knock out gas or gas that'll kill you? I'm thinking the latter, and it were just knock out gas, why not knock out Vicki and then kidnap her? Why was she so disgusted? They all died, so he has over 25-30 kills, not just 18.

Ok, so if we assume that the people in the museum died, then we saw around 6-8 people die on camera...

So now that's 24-26 CONFIRMED kills for Jack's Joker...

Yea plus don't forget all the people his goons shot after the pen scene as he waltzed to the car. Jack's Joker was a prankster but he still offed people with his pranks.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Ok, so if we assume that the people in the museum died, then we saw around 6-8 people die on camera...

So now that's 24-26 CONFIRMED kills for Jack's Joker...

That's really close to 30, and as I said, including Eckhart and Bruce's parents, it's 29. There's no telling how many people he may have killed before he became the Joker. I still count the kills pre Joker because he's basically the same person.