Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Some religious practices ask that you pray for the poor or for the less fortunate. Other prayer, in contrast, deals only with yourself and your correction. Your job is determine what you need in order to be complete. They pray to advance in your completeness.
This does not mean that you do not care about other people, especially those who need extra help. Correction means becoming altruistic instead of egoistic. Therefore, caring for others is "built-in" in the prayer. If you are not praying to become altruistic then you are not praying for correction anyway.
Being poor means being deficient, not having something. But why pray for something instead of working to get it? Because there is one thing that, no matter how hard we work for it, we will never get by ourselves: the Creator's quality of bestowal. So praying for the poor is wanting everyone to have the quality of bestowal because that the only thing they can't find on their one. Those who pray for the poor, for others, are rewarded first.
Your opinions?

Wrong forum.

I'll summarize the responses you'll receive there so no one else has to:

God isn't real you delusional homophobe.
Theists start lots of wars.
You can't prove God exists.
Prayer is a waste of time.
Atheism is the one true path to enlightenment. Straying from the true teachings is a sign of idiocy and inability to handle life.
Poor people can uplift themselves because nothing in society holds them back from that.
Prayer should be privatized.

The hands that help are better far than lips that pray.

Originally posted by Storm
The hands that help are better far than lips that pray. s

True, I also believe that one can pray through actions, and that such prayers tend to be far more effective.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wrong forum.

I'll summarize the responses you'll receive there so no one else has to:

God isn't real you delusional homophobe.
Theists start lots of wars.
You can't prove God exists.
Prayer is a waste of time.
Atheism is the one true path to enlightenment. Straying from the true teachings is a sign of idiocy and inability to handle life.
Poor people can uplift themselves because nothing in society holds them back from that.
Prayer should be privatized.

Arse

Originally posted by Bardock42
Arse

Pot, kettle.

And I prefer soothsayer.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wrong forum.

I'll summarize the responses you'll receive there so no one else has to:

God isn't real you delusional homophobe.
Theists start lots of wars.
You can't prove God exists.
Prayer is a waste of time.
Atheism is the one true path to enlightenment. Straying from the true teachings is a sign of idiocy and inability to handle life.
Poor people can uplift themselves because nothing in society holds them back from that.
Prayer should be privatized.

Isn't the point of a forum to be able to discuss things?

- You don't have to believe in God, but you can't prove he's not real. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
- Theists start wars, as do non-theists. What's your point?
- Prayer is only a waste of time if you pray while believing it's a waste of time.
- How has atheism enlightened you besides made you bitter against religious people? I can't say I've ever met an atheist that really seemed happy...and I know a lot of atheists.
- Poor people can uplift themselves, but those who are not poor should help them do it, if not with money, than with time and encouragement.
- If prayer should be privatized, you obviously don't care about freedom of expression. If you have the freedom to be an atheist and publicly say you are, the faithful have the freedom to pray wherever they want.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Isn't the point of a forum to be able to discuss things?

- You don't have to believe in God, but you can't prove he's not real. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
- Theists start wars, as do non-theists. What's your point?
- Prayer is only a waste of time if you pray while believing it's a waste of time.
- How has atheism enlightened you besides made you bitter against religious people? I can't say I've ever met an atheist that really seemed happy...and I know a lot of atheists.
- Poor people can uplift themselves, but those who are not poor should help them do it, if not with money, than with time and encouragement.
- If prayer should be privatized, you obviously don't care about freedom of expression. If you have the freedom to be an atheist and publicly say you are, the faithful have the freedom to pray wherever they want.

Don't spend much time around here do you? I simply provided that sum total of (meaningless cop-out) answers that Svetlu would get over here. Every thread eventually degrades into one of those topics namely:

God/Devil/Soul: real or not real?
Evil: entirely because of religion or entirely because of atheism?
Religion: waste of time way to save one's soul?
Atheists: how to justify useless irritating rhetoric
Theists: how to justifty useless irritating rhetoric
Ethics: why mine are better than yours while everyone's are subjective (except mine)

It's fun though. Repetetive, but fun.

You're right. I'm fairly new to the religion forum, but I already see what you mean, lol! You can tell by my siggy where I spend most of my time when I come here...

Yeah, that's the great thing about religion and also the worst thing: it asks the fundamental questions about the meaning of life, what a soul is, if there is more to life than what we can see, etc. Some people are just nicer and more mature about discussing it than others, though.

Yeah, i dont know man. I pray that the poor will get off of their lazy asses, close their needy fuking mouths and stop asking me for crack change when i pass them in the city. I could be completely wrong ( which im not ) in saying that the poor don't pray for the rich, or financially comfortable. If they are, it is isn't fuking working, cuz i haven't gotten anything special yet...,so pray harder. The day that a destitute, long curly haired brunette goddess approaches me with a request of me buying her a hot cup of coffee in exchange for a blow job is the day i will start praying for the poor.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wrong forum.

I'll summarize the responses you'll receive there so no one else has to:

God isn't real you delusional homophobe.
Theists start lots of wars.
You can't prove God exists.
Prayer is a waste of time.
Atheism is the one true path to enlightenment. Straying from the true teachings is a sign of idiocy and inability to handle life.
Poor people can uplift themselves because nothing in society holds them back from that.
Prayer should be privatized.

Wow. Great stereotyping. Seriously, have you contributed anything to this forum besides letting your irreverence slowly become insulting? Because that's the vast majority of what I see, and the fact that none of us are saints makes it no less reprehensible.

This can easily be considered spam and bashing, though the fact that its not directed at any one person but an entire forum makes it hard to label as such, though it makes you no less of a jerk for spouting it off in a worthless attempt at sarcasm.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Wow. Great stereotyping. Seriously, have you contributed anything to this forum besides letting your irreverence slowly become insulting? Because that's the vast majority of what I see, and the fact that none of us are saints makes it no less reprehensible.

A moderate perspective that doesn't demand black and white distinctions between things. Lack of blind hatred of either theists or atheists.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
This can easily be considered spam and bashing, though the fact that its not directed at any one person but an entire forum makes it hard to label as such, though it makes you no less of a jerk for spouting it off in a worthless attempt at sarcasm.

Very little in the forum, from any side, is better than spam or bashing. It not an inaccurate description of the cycles this forum gets stuck in.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A moderate perspective that doesn't demand black and white distinctions between things. Lack of blind hatred of either theists or atheists.

Again, stereotyping. So everyone hates the other side? If that wasn't tainted with a holier-than-thou attitude, it would almost be sad that that's how you see others here.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Very little in the forum, from any side, is better than spam or bashing. It not an inaccurate description of the cycles this forum gets stuck in.

Selective bias. Good discussion exists in any forum, as does bashing and spam. To lump everything together as essentially fruitless is to ignore the good and focus on the bad in order to falsely generalize.

It's also a horrible excuse to take part in it yourself.

Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.

Originally posted by svetlu
Some religious practices ask that you pray for the poor or for the less fortunate. Other prayer, in contrast, deals only with yourself and your correction. Your job is determine what you need in order to be complete. They pray to advance in your completeness.
This does not mean that you do not care about other people, especially those who need extra help. Correction means becoming altruistic instead of egoistic. Therefore, caring for others is "built-in" in the prayer. If you are not praying to become altruistic then you are not praying for correction anyway.
Being poor means being deficient, not having something. But why pray for something instead of working to get it? Because there is one thing that, no matter how hard we work for it, we will never get by ourselves: the Creator's quality of bestowal. So praying for the poor is wanting everyone to have the quality of bestowal because that the only thing they can't find on their one. Those who pray for the poor, for others, are rewarded first.
Your opinions?

I'm not sure what you're really asking, but I'll tell you that giving alms to the poor is one of the 5 Pillars of Islam, if that helps.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Wow. Great stereotyping. Seriously, have you contributed anything to this forum besides letting your irreverence slowly become insulting? Because that's the vast majority of what I see, and the fact that none of us are saints makes it no less reprehensible.


But does his list really stray from your opinions?

Do do think God isn't real, you do think prayer is a waste of time, and theist are responsible for a lot of bad things, don't you? And I know you think all that, so you really don't have an argument.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wrong forum.

I'll summarize the responses you'll receive there so no one else has to:

God isn't real you delusional homophobe.
Theists start lots of wars.
You can't prove God exists.
Prayer is a waste of time.
Atheism is the one true path to enlightenment. Straying from the true teachings is a sign of idiocy and inability to handle life.
Poor people can uplift themselves because nothing in society holds them back from that.
Prayer should be privatized.

Have you ever heard of Pascal's wager ?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Prayer should be privatized.




Bardock?

Though, you are wrong to post that anyway...its not like you meant it as a joke, rather it was one of your digs.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Have you ever heard of Pascal's wager ?

Yes. Not a fan.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
But does his list really stray from your opinions?

Do do think God isn't real, you do think prayer is a waste of time, and theist are responsible for a lot of bad things, don't you? And I know you think all that, so you really don't have an argument.

Not really surprised you took the opportunity to pile on me. You'd think that eventually you might realize that my comments generally work toward decreasing the amount of negativity on the forums, and then decide to refrain from adding to it yourself. But if you feel the need to drag your own vendetta against me into a matter that should've be laid to rest by now (by Sym and myself, no one else) then I'm more than happy to oblige you.

Anyway, you're missing the point entirely. Sym's comment was intended as a slight toward the entire forum. He marginalized what he feels are recurring arguments in the forum, and turned it into a form of mockery. I pointed out that legitimate, respectful discussion occurs regularly, and to generalize it into a few trite points and act like that's all there is, is both non-constructive for discussion and insulting to regular members.

So it's not the points themselves that I was against, which is the point that you seem to have missed entirely. It's the intent with which he uttered them, and the sarcastic, condescending tone.

Also, just to clarify (not that it normally matters with you, since you've ignored me in the past in order to paint me as some sort of godless stereotype) I don't "think theists are responsible for a lot of bad things." Of course they are. Atheists are responsible for a lot of bad things too. And both sides are responsible for a lot of good things as well. It's not religion that I'm against, it's abuse of beliefs to do things that cause harm and suffering to others. I've also never said prayer is a waste of time. The fact that a divine creator may not be there to answer them doesn't mean there isn't thereputic and/or emotional value in putting one's mind in a prayerful state. Prayer can and does help people quite a bit, even though I think its their own mental devices creating the healing rather than a god. There's also a few others I don't agree with, but the comments weren't directed specifically at me, but in general, so it's a moot point.

So pretty please, hate me if you must, but don't put words in my mouth and pretend that you aren't lying while you try to slander me.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Not really surprised you took the opportunity to pile on me. You'd think that eventually you might realize that my comments generally work toward decreasing the amount of negativity on the forums, and then decide to refrain from adding to it yourself. But if you feel the need to drag your own vendetta against me into a matter that should've be laid to rest by now (by Sym and myself, no one else) then I'm more than happy to oblige you.

Anyway, you're missing the point entirely. Sym's comment was intended as a slight toward the entire forum. He marginalized what he feels are recurring arguments in the forum, and turned it into a form of mockery. I pointed out that legitimate, respectful discussion occurs regularly, and to generalize it into a few trite points and act like that's all there is, is both non-constructive for discussion and insulting to regular members.

So it's not the points themselves that I was against, which is the point that you seem to have missed entirely. It's the intent with which he uttered them, and the sarcastic, condescending tone.

Also, just to clarify (not that it normally matters with you, since you've ignored me in the past in order to paint me as some sort of godless stereotype) I don't "think theists are responsible for a lot of bad things." Of course they are. Atheists are responsible for a lot of bad things too. And both sides are responsible for a lot of good things as well. It's not religion that I'm against, it's abuse of beliefs to do things that cause harm and suffering to others. I've also never said prayer is a waste of time. The fact that a divine creator may not be there to answer them doesn't mean there isn't thereputic and/or emotional value in putting one's mind in a prayerful state. Prayer can and does help people quite a bit, even though I think its their own mental devices creating the healing rather than a god. There's also a few others I don't agree with, but the comments weren't directed specifically at me, but in general, so it's a moot point.

So pretty please, hate me if you must, but don't put words in my mouth and pretend that you aren't lying while you try to slander me.

Well, I'll at least get to find out if prayer works or not. With my little experiment. That's for sure I've only said I'll pray eternally to EL, with the song of songs, for L. Will that prayer be answered or will I actually have to put some work into it. I've absolute faith, and faith moves mountains, is it too much to ask?

Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
Well, I'll at least get to find out if prayer works or not. With my little experiment. That's for sure I've only said I'll pray eternally to EL, with the song of songs, for L. Will that prayer be answered or will I actually have to put some work into it. I've absolute faith, and faith moves mountains, is it too much to ask?

Lulz. You quoted my last post, then said something that had nothing to do with it.

Anyway, good luck with your praying.

Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
Well, I'll at least get to find out if prayer works or not. With my little experiment. That's for sure I've only said I'll pray eternally to EL, with the song of songs, for L. Will that prayer be answered or will I actually have to put some work into it. I've absolute faith, and faith moves mountains, is it too much to ask?

Experiments with prayer have been done on a large scale. There was no notable difference in survival rates of those who were prayed for and those who were not.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Experiments with prayer have been done on a large scale. There was no notable difference in survival rates of those who were prayed for and those who were not.

Scientists' have faith in science, their uber strong faith counters that of believers. Their world view would not be overturned.

Or not. That would be completely ridiculous don't you think?

Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
Scientists' have faith in science, their uber strong faith counters that of believers. Their world view would not be overturned.

Or not. That would be completely ridiculous don't you think?

The faith of scientists in Reason counteracting the faith of others in Religion? It isn't necessarily ridiculous.

Of course you would have to assume that either collective will can alter reality or that both Reason and Religion are back by powerful supernatural entities. Both notions have been explored in one way or another in fiction but probably have little or no basis in fact.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
But does his list really stray from your opinions?


From mine it does:

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
God isn't real you delusional homophobe.


I doubt God is real, in particular the Christian one, I wouldn't go so far as to claim that he certainly isn't. And not everyone with a believe in God is necessarily delusional or homophobic, though there is no denying that some of them are. And, as we are talking about my believes, I do have the pretty unfounded believe that more Christians are delusional and homophobic than atheists, but really, a case to case basis seems necessary.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Theists start lots of wars.


Well, there have been lots of wars started by theists.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You can't prove God exists.


True. At least I have not encountered prove as of yet.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Prayer is a waste of time.


I wouldn't say it is a waste of time. I think it can probably be used as a meditation technique and you might become more clear about your wishes and such, it also might have a placebo effect in some cases, which is all good. Personally I doubt that it is good because a supernatural being will support you.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Atheism is the one true path to enlightenment.


Disagree.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Straying from the true teachings is a sign of idiocy and inability to handle life.


As well.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Poor people can uplift themselves because nothing in society holds them back from that.


Disagree as well.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Prayer should be privatized.

I think technically they are privatized.

Praying for others' condition is praying to have the quality of Creator's quality of bestowal. Collective prayer is also the desire that all souls reach correction , not just your own. Because all souls are connected, the progress of each soul makes a difference to the whole.

I think money and poverty actually prove that 'God' as described in the various religious books doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The faith of scientists in Reason counteracting the faith of others in Religion? It isn't necessarily ridiculous.

Of course you would have to assume that either collective will can alter reality or that both Reason and Religion are back by powerful supernatural entities. Both notions have been explored in one way or another in fiction but probably have little or no basis in fact.

I love the idea of a deity in charge of Reason. If the god did its job too well and gave people reason, no one would believe it it/Him anymore.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.


h5oLgmLr-64