Freddy Krueger vs. Neo

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Impediment
Okay. Let's see how this works.

Freddy Krueger

From wiki:

As long as his victims were dreaming, Krueger could inhabit and control their dreams, twisting them to his own ends. He is also capable of entering a victim's mind via state of intoxication, whether the victim is drunk or stoned. Any physical harm done to a person in this dream world would carry over into the real world, though exactly how differs significantly between films, allowing him to easily commit multiple murders. Krueger often toyed with his victims by changing his form and surroundings, usually resembling the boiler room where he brought his child victims that had been missing in town. He also has the power to manipulate or possess any object or part of the dream environment not kept exclusively on the person of his victim at all times after initial creation, as he does in the fifth and sixth films.

His powers increased from those originally granted to him based on how many knew and feared his existence as well as how many souls were in his current possession. At the height of his powers, he could cause severe damage in the real world. This included possession of humans (as shown in the second Nightmare film, briefly in the fifth, and Freddy vs Jason), his corpse (as shown in the third), objects or animals (also shown in the second) or even literally pulling a victim from the waking world into the dream world (as shown in the fifth Nightmare film). If one of Freddy's victims wakes up while they're holding onto him in the dream world, he can be carried into the real world where he is still superhumanly strong and durable, but can be wounded. This was used for extensive fight scenes in the first Nightmare film, Freddy's Dead, and Freddy vs Jason.

In a person's own dream, Krueger could see into their minds and use their deepest fears and personality against them, which became his trademark in the films, at times taking the image of previous victims to help lure friends or relatives to their doom. A few victims managed to use their own imagination to consciously manipulate their dreams against him, a technique known as lucid dreaming, but this typically had little effect on Krueger, who remained in control of their dreams. Another of Krueger's powers involved absorbing the souls of his victims into his own body after they had been killed, which served to make him more powerful. As he gained a victim, their face would appear on his chest, each soul augmenting his power. Each soul he takes grants him the attributes of the victim. This has lead him to acquire skills such as martial arts skills, and high durability. In addition, he is a shapeshifter and can turn into anything, such as a cockroach.

Neo

from wiki:

Neo has carried since his inception the Matrix's source code, known as the Prime Program. This gives him the ability to freely manipulate the simulated reality of the Matrix, similar to the authority a system administrator has over a given system. However, he mainly manifests these abilities as various superhuman powers.

The power Neo exhibits most often is telekinesis - he seems capable of manipulating any object in the Matrix through will alone. By focusing this ability upon himself he can fly at amazing speeds and jump great distances. Whilst his speed is never specified, he flies from The Merovingian's mountain manor to the highway "500 miles due south" in less than 15 minutes, implying that his "cruising speed" is in excess of three times the speed of sound. His speed of flight is further exemplified by his ability to "outfly" explosions and the fact that as he flies, objects around him tend to twist, catch fire, or smash; the sonic boom left in his wake has the power to overturn rows of heavy vehicles.

Further, Neo possesses superhuman strength and agility, and is able to brush off attacks that would kill or disable a normal human being with relative ease. His reflexes are great enough to dodge bullets in a manner similar to the Agents (though he usually stops them outright with his telekinesis). However, his strength and endurance have limits. Even though he could block a sword with the edge of his hand, he received a small cut, indicating (as the Merovingian pointed out) that he was still human despite his powers. His endurance is also finite: when confronted by masses of Smith clones in the second film, Neo was forced to escape rather than continue fighting, and upon exiting the Matrix, he appeared visibly tired and out of breath.

Neo has displayed the ability to heal people with the Matrix, even to the point of resurrecting the recently deceased (though the extent and limits of this ability are not known).

A more subtle application of Neo ability is a heightened awareness of the simulated nature of the Matrix, enabling him to easily detect Agents, Exiles, and other anomalous phenomena (such as the presence of explosives). He is even capable of a limited form of precognition. The ability to see the Matrix's inner workings has been referred to as "Code Vision." This has been described as "seeing the world without time", or visualizing possible futures like a chess player looking several moves ahead.

In addition, Neo (like most Red Pills) utilizes the Resistance's combat programs, which grant combat abilities equivalent to a martial artist with decades of experience. However, Neo is able to run an unprecedented number of these programs simultaneously; he is therefore a master of every known martial art and fighting style, including Kung Fu, Jujitsu, Karate, Eskrima, Drunken Boxing, and Taekwondo (However, in training for the series, Keanu Reeve's fighting arsenal, as well as the entire cast's, emphasizes Wushu.)

In the real world, Neo has some degree of wireless connectivity with the Matrix system: he eventually learns to sense the presence of the Machines, and even interfere with their function. This capability actually overwhelms him at first, causing him to involuntarily jack into Mobil Avenue Station without the equipment normally used by the Resistance. According to the Oracle, "The power of the One extends beyond this world . It reaches from here all the way back to where it came from." Apparently because of his status as The One; he has a direct connection to the Source, and can therefore affect everything connected to it. Additionally, after he is blinded in the fight against Smith/Bane, Neo begins to perceive everything connected to the Source, including the Machine City itself, as silhouettes of golden light.

In the whole of the Matrix Trilogy, Neo kills a total of 97 people (not including all of the multiple incarnations of Agent Smith). 97 is also the largest prime number under 100.

___________________________________

Both characters are respectively gods in their chosen domains.

Neo is in the Matrix.

He falls asleep while in the Matrix, and retains his powers.

Freddy invades Neo's dreams. This happens while in The Matrix, but, also, in the Dream World, which is, for lack of a better term, Freddy's Matrix.

Both characters have unbridled power that they wield at their command. They can manipulate their respective worlds.

Can Neo re-write the Matrix code, even though Freddy is master of his domain, to win this battle? Or vice versa?

Neo is a living being. Freddy is a supernatural force.

Who has the upper hand here?

Rogue Jedi
dude......

Impediment
Before any shit ensues, I am merely making this thread to try and settle the whole "unconquerable Matrix" dilemma. Then, maybe, I'll re-open the Neo vs. Luke thread.

Impediment
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
dude......

Is your mind blown?

Or are you poking fun at me? stick out tongue

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Impediment
Is your mind blown?

Or are you poking fun at me? stick out tongue KA fvcking BOOOOOOOM....... laughing

Impediment
Freddy is a supernatural force that invades the bodies of those in the Matrix, or those that have been "awoken" from the grasp of the Matrix. Even in the humans that are "grown" in the fields and sleep through their whole lives. The machines are unaware of his presence.

Man of Christ
Neo has a better technical knowlege of matter manipulation and would effectively curbstomp freddy. Neo's control is so great that he can even wake himself up from the dream, kick freddy's but in the matrix. of course for neo to be in the matrix he needs to be plugged in, and someone has to do that, so invariable someone will be monitoring neo, notice that neo is in trouble and unplug him, which could bring freddy into the real world where neo kills him.

this is like a fight between gandalf and dumbledore. dumbledore being neo of course. they both can manipulate thier enviroments but neo has a better technical knowlege of manipulation.

Impediment
Who's to say that Freddy, like Neo, doesn't have an equal technical knowledge of manipulation of his environment? I mean, he is the master of the Dream Realm.

Man of Christ
Originally posted by Impediment
Who's to say that Freddy, like Neo, doesn't have an equal technical knowledge of manipulation of his environment? I mean, he is the master of the Dream Realm.

well in watching freddy versus jason all i see him do is shapeshift, teleport and use telekesis but i dont see him rewrite codes and bring people back to life which require more skill, not to mention fly three times the speed of sound. freddy is good at manipulation but his manipulation seems to be a result of brute sadistic desire as opposed to training which neo had.

Impediment
Ah ha! So by that rationale, you're saying that with time and training comes experience.

Neo had all of his abilities downloaded into his brain. He fine-tuned them, beit with Morpheus in simulation mode or in the Matrix against the Agents, over time.

Freddy has had his share of time, also, to fine-tune his powers. Just because he may not display the said abilities of Neo doesn't mean that he cannot, in fact, imitate them.

I bet money that Freddy can fly, kung-fu, raise the dead, etc, etc, all he wants to if he so desired while in his realm.

In my opinion.

Man of Christ
Originally posted by Impediment
Ah ha! So by that rationale, you're saying that with time and training comes experience.

Neo had all of his abilities downloaded into his brain. He fine-tuned them, beit with Morpheus in simulation mode or in the Matrix against the Agents, over time.

Freddy has had his share of time, also, to fine-tune his powers. Just because he may not display the said abilities of Neo doesn't mean that he cannot, in fact, imitate them.

I bet money that Freddy can fly, kung-fu, raise the dead, etc, etc, all he wants to if he so desired while in his realm.

In my opinion.

I dont mean to categorically argue that experience = victory (plus im sure you have seen this on the star wars versus thread)

I just think in the matrix neo has homefield advantage but this leads me to two questions for you impediment.

1) if neo wanted could he rewrite freddy's code to make him harmless?

and

2) if a swarm of agent smiths fought kreuger in your scenario could they successfully assimilate him?

Alpha Centauri
So effectively, this thread is just because someone wants to see Neo get beat in the Matrix?

Freddy would be a creation of the Matrix. It's actually said in the movie.

Vampires, werewolves, all those kinds of supernatural beings are glitches in the Matrix. It's a no contest...again.

Why do people keep using this shit?

-AC

Impediment
You need to remember:

Neo is in the Matrix. He falls asleep in the Matrix. Freddy invades Neo's dreams while in the Matrix.

Both characters have the "homefield advantage".

I made this thread with that specifically in mind.



To answer your questions:

1) Maybe. But, couldn't Freddy alter Neo just as well?

2) Freddy has, also, produced numerous clones of himself throughout his movies. Is a Freddy clone just as powerful as an Agent Smith clone?

Impediment
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So effectively, this thread is just because someone wants to see Neo get beat in the Matrix?

Freddy would be a creation of the Matrix. It's actually said in the movie.

Vampires, werewolves, all those kinds of supernatural beings are glitches in the Matrix. It's a no contest...again.

Why do people keep using this shit?

-AC

Negative.

Freddy is not a product of the Matrix.

Freddy is a supernatural force.

The Matrix is artificially made.

These are my rules. I make them up.

Freddy exists before the Matrix is ever online.

I use this shit because I am that good. 131

Man of Christ
I would say then to you that there can be no winner, this fight is like infinity vs infinity say they both weaken eachother, either way the fight will be interrupter when neo is unplugged.

about the agent smith fight i think the smith clones may be deadlocked with the freddy clones but from watching the matrix reloaded there seems to be more smith clones.

also how would freddy enter into the matrix?

and couldnt he be killed with norton or mcafee antivirus software? lol

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Impediment


I use this shit because I am god. 131 wink

Impediment
Freddy is a supernatural force. Technical limitations and boundaries have no effect on him.

If Neo is asleep, beit a physical sleep or a Matrix induced "sleep", Freddy could still inhabit dreams.

Freddy is hardly a virus. A problem, yes, but not a virus.

ragesRemorse
I dont think neo needs to sleep

wink

Impediment
......................FFS.


We're being hypothetical here, folks.

stick out tongue

Impediment
I have to go to bed. It's going to be a trifle bit tough tomorrow at work.

I can't wait to see where this goes by the time I'm at home after work.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Impediment
Negative.

Freddy is not a product of the Matrix.

Freddy is a supernatural force.

The Matrix is artificially made.

These are my rules. I make them up.

Freddy exists before the Matrix is ever online.

I use this shit because I am that good. 131

That's very, VERY pretty, but unfortunately being a mod of KMC does not make you able to alter the canonical abilities of either Freddy Krueger or Neo.

If Krueger is a supernatural force in the Matrix, then he's a glitch in the Matrix, and Neo controls him, because Neo controls the Matrix.

Unless you using this "shit" is just a way of saying you want Neo to be in a fight where you take away every advantage he has, if not ignoring how effective they are, because you happen to want him to lose, as well as liking Freddy more, then it's really irrelevant. You're not that "good", you're that biased.

It's just not gonna happen, sorry to say.

Your mod powers don't stretch this far, homeboy.

-AC

Impediment
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's very, VERY pretty, but unfortunately being a mod of KMC does not make you able to alter the canonical abilities of either Freddy Krueger or Neo.

If Krueger is a supernatural force in the Matrix, then he's a glitch in the Matrix, and Neo controls him, because Neo controls the Matrix.

Unless you using this "shit" is just a way of saying you want Neo to be in a fight where you take away every advantage he has, if not ignoring how effective they are, because you happen to want him to lose, as well as liking Freddy more, then it's really irrelevant. You're not that "good", you're that biased.

It's just not gonna happen, sorry to say.

Your mod powers don't stretch this far, homeboy.

-AC

Me being a mod has shit to do with this thread. I closed the Neo vs. Luke thread because it went from a debate into a bash fest.

I am not altering a damn thing when it comes to the powers of said combatants.

Krueger is a supernatural force. And, yes, he is in the Matrix. Alas, he is in the DREAMS of Neo. Ergo, Freddy has every bit as much power as Neo.

As for being "biased", instead of taking the red or blue pill, take a chill pill. You're taking the aspects of this thread WAAAAAAY too seriously.

My mod powers have shit to do with this.

I'm trying to have some fun. You're peeing in everyone Cheerio's.

Impediment
BTW, I tried laying down for bed.

I'm not tired just yet.

Man of Christ
Originally posted by Impediment
Me being a mod has shit to do with this thread. I closed the Neo vs. Luke thread because it went from a debate into a bash fest.

I am not altering a damn thing when it comes to the powers of said combatants.

Krueger is a supernatural force. And, yes, he is in the Matrix. Alas, he is in the DREAMS of Neo. Ergo, Freddy has every bit as much power as Neo.

As for being "biased", instead of taking the red or blue pill, take a chill pill. You're taking the aspects of this thread WAAAAAAY too seriously.

My mod powers have shit to do with this.

I'm trying to have some fun. You're peeing in everyone Cheerio's.

peeing in cheerios?! What the f**k? lol

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Impediment
Me being a mod has shit to do with this thread. I closed the Neo vs. Luke thread because it went from a debate into a bash fest.

I am not altering a damn thing when it comes to the powers of said combatants.

Krueger is a supernatural force. And, yes, he is in the Matrix. Alas, he is in the DREAMS of Neo. Ergo, Freddy has every bit as much power as Neo.

Not really, since he is still in The Matrix. If he did it in the real world, where Neo sleeps, then yes. He doesn't need sleep in The Matrix now. So, pretty much a dead fight.

Originally posted by Impediment
As for being "biased", instead of taking the red or blue pill, take a chill pill. You're taking the aspects of this thread WAAAAAAY too seriously.

My mod powers have shit to do with this.

I'm trying to have some fun. You're peeing in everyone Cheerio's.

A) Quite a good one, the pill thing. I can take jabs when they're potent, haha.

B) I love Vs fights, but I think people need to stop using Neo/Matrix, cos it's ridiculous as a stipulation.

-AC

Scythe
Ooooooooooooooooooooh, this one's a toughie. Umm, damn. This isn't exactly simple minded crap like "the force" this is dreamscape shit we're talkin' about. Umm, I'll have to do research on Freddie, but from what I can decide at the moment, it'll probably end up a draw or I'm not really sure for that matter. Hmm. Haha, this one's great.

Impediment
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A) Quite a good one, the pill thing. I can take jabs when they're potent, haha.

B) I love Vs fights, but I think people need to stop using Neo/Matrix, cos it's ridiculous as a stipulation.

-AC

You know I try.

So, ultimately, you're saying that Neo is, essentially, unbeatable whilst in the Matrix? No matter who he fights?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Impediment
You need to remember:

Neo is in the Matrix. He falls asleep in the Matrix. Freddy invades Neo's dreams while in the Matrix.

Both characters have the "homefield advantage".

I made this thread with that specifically in mind.



To answer your questions:

1) Maybe. But, couldn't Freddy alter Neo just as well?

2) Freddy has, also, produced numerous clones of himself throughout his movies. Is a Freddy clone just as powerful as an Agent Smith clone? I think what AC is saying is that, since he dreams in the Matrix, and the dreamworld is in the Matrix, it doesn't change the fact that Neo has absolute control over the Matrix and everything in it. So, though in the dreamworld, he would still have full control of it, including depowering Freddy, etc.

Now, that's what I think AC said, and I get what he is coming from, it's just that what was said in the Movies and what we saw happening in the movies wasn't always quite the same.

Robtard
Originally posted by Impediment
You know I try.

So, ultimately, you're saying that Neo is, essentially, unbeatable whilst in the Matrix? No matter who he fights?

Remember when he was trapped at the train station? It was essentially someone else's world he entered, therefore the train-man had control.

Alpha Centauri
Exactly.

This isn't like that, though, this is Freddy in his "world" in the Matrix. Neo doesn't even sleep in the Matrix.

-AC

Combat_Guru
Originally posted by Impediment
Freddy is a supernatural force that invades the bodies of those in the Matrix, or those that have been "awoken" from the grasp of the Matrix. Even in the humans that are "grown" in the fields and sleep through their whole lives. The machines are unaware of his presence.


The Matrix is a dream of death, the human's intellegence isn't tricked, his mind his tricked, his body is tricked, the mind thinks it's in survival mode.

The only time Freddy can invade someone in the Matrix is when they actually are asleep, just like when their out.

DestinyGuy678
neo easily, even regular humans have managed to battle freddy in his realm by coming to their senses, thats basically what the matrix is for neo, essentially if neo were to fight freddy in his world, once he got past the nightmares he would become more powerful then hes ever been

HumanMovieGuide
Neo wins easily. Pretty much anyone can manipulate a dream since it's just a part of your imagination and even the teens in the Nightmare films manage to pull it off and give themselves powers.

The Matrix on the other hand is a virtual reality world with rules and restraint. The Zion fighters have trained extensively, but are still limited because they can only bend those rules, but not break them. Neo however possesses the powers of the One that enables him to break those rules. The powers of the One and it's counterpart were so great that they were beginning to bridge the gap between the Matrix and the real world. Like how Neo managed to destroy all those machines when he and Trinity were entering the Machine City and how Smith manage to take control of Bane in the real world.

Kaibs
I got Neo winning here not as easily as some would think but still he would win none the less. All that stuff you say Freddy could "do" in his dream world we havent seen him do because we're going off movie feats. Neo literally pretty much altered code as he saw fit. Freddy's altered code that he "saw" fit was make something a dead end for a teenager or got lucky and found out Jasons a puss when it comes to water so the fire sprinklers turned on. Where Neo has moved faster than bullets Freddy well has not. Keep in mind besides Jason, Freddy has faught Kids and women. Not to knock kids or women but htey arent shit compared to Neo. Neo is a freak in the matrix. He would tear Freddys head off and then kill him again to make sure hes dead. I think Freddy's fast and skilled, but Neo is just faster. And unlike Freddy Neo has no weakness.

Dr Will Hatch
Originally posted by Scythe
Ooooooooooooooooooooh, this one's a toughie. Umm, damn. This isn't exactly simple minded crap like "the force" this is dreamscape shit we're talkin' about. Umm, I'll have to do research on Freddie, but from what I can decide at the moment, it'll probably end up a draw or I'm not really sure for that matter. Hmm. Haha, this one's great.

Why is The Force simplistic? It's clearly laid out that it is an omnipotent energy that potentially can make you invincible. Yoda said this, to words of effect, in Empire.

As for the fight at hand, Freddy is NOT in the Matrix when he is attacking Neo. He is in the Dreamscape which exists on a plane above the existence of the Matrix. HOWEVER, Freddy has never dealt with anyone remotely competent or intelligent and still lets himself get beat. So you might say he's the horror version of Thanos, unstoppable but ultimately self defeating.

Scythe
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Why is The Force simplistic? It's clearly laid out that it is an omnipotent energy that potentially can make you invincible. Yoda said this, to words of effect, in Empire.

As for the fight at hand, Freddy is NOT in the Matrix when he is attacking Neo. He is in the Dreamscape which exists on a plane above the existence of the Matrix. HOWEVER, Freddy has never dealt with anyone remotely competent or intelligent and still lets himself get beat. So you might say he's the horror version of Thanos, unstoppable but ultimately self defeating.

Haha, I didn't mean it was overall simplistic, I just meant it's a simple idea in the fact that it either exists within the Matrix or it doesn't.

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