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first of all ssj3 goku is DEFINITELY stronger than ssj 3 gotenks, and also stronger than mystic gohan. the fusions are stronger than he is, but a full power ssj 3 goku is the strongest character imo. the only real debate between whos stronger is mystic and ssj 3 goku, and i believe from what was shown that its clear ssj 3 goku was stronger. kid buu trails just a tiny bit behind

There should be a unique hierarchy for each saga, besides you got the names mixed up.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
first of all ssj3 goku is DEFINITELY stronger than ssj 3 gotenks, and also stronger than mystic gohan. the fusions are stronger than he is, but a full power ssj 3 goku is the strongest character imo. the only real debate between whos stronger is mystic and ssj 3 goku, and i believe from what was shown that its clear ssj 3 goku was stronger. kid buu trails just a tiny bit behind What did Gokou show that made him seem stronger? Admitting Super Buu was more powerful, hoping Gotenks absorbed Buu wouldn't kill him before Gohan found the Potara earring, saying Gohan could beat Buu now when Gotenks unfused and not saying he could do it, being barley able to take on Fat Buu while Gohan was able to completely own Super Buu which is the stronger version. As for Gotenks he was able to stalemate Super Buu. It's clear he's more powerful. He's just stupid and inexperienced. He may not take a majority of wins against Gokou because of that mixed with the short time limit he has at ssj3 but he was more powerful.


As for the list I think Fat Buu and Kid Buu need to be moved up but that's just my opinion. Besides that I think the list is fine. I don't think Vegetto is high herald though mor like mid. And trying to place the other characters would be a challenge.

Originally posted by Kento
What did Gokou show that made him seem stronger? Admitting Super Buu was more powerful, hoping Gotenks absorbed Buu wouldn't kill him before Gohan found the Potara earring, saying Gohan could beat Buu now when Gotenks unfused and not saying he could do it, being barley able to take on Fat Buu while Gohan was able to completely own Super Buu which is the stronger version. As for Gotenks he was able to stalemate Super Buu. It's clear he's more powerful. He's just stupid and inexperienced. He may not take a majority of wins against Gokou because of that mixed with the short time limit he has at ssj3 but he was more powerful.


As for the list I think Fat Buu and Kid Buu need to be moved up but that's just my opinion. Besides that I think the list is fine. I don't think Vegetto is high herald though mor like mid. And trying to place the other characters would be a challenge. what makes him stronger is that he could have beat kid buu, the strongest buu, if he had been fully powered. hes also faster, seeing as trunks and goten cant even go super saiyan 2 individually, a super saiyan 3 gotenks isnt faster.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
what makes him stronger is that he could have beat kid buu, the strongest buu, if he had been fully powered. hes also faster, seeing as trunks and goten cant even go super saiyan 2 individually, a super saiyan 3 gotenks isnt faster. Kid Buu isn't the strongest though I do think he's stronger than Super Buu without anybody absorbed...and um the only reason Gokou could have won and that's even if he could have is because the Buu's durability isn't that good and he could disintegrate him easily. He wasn't more powerful than Kid Buu. Kid Buu was actually playing around while Gokou was trying to kill him and failing.

Because Trunks and Goten can't do something....has what to do with Gotenks who can go ssj3 and have proven himself to be more powerful. And being more powerful means being faster.

Originally posted by Kento
Kid Buu isn't the strongest though I do think he's stronger than Super Buu without anybody absorbed...and um the only reason Gokou could have won and that's even if he could have is because the Buu's durability isn't that good and he could disintegrate him easily. He wasn't more powerful than Kid Buu. Kid Buu was actually playing around while Gokou was trying to kill him and failing.

Because Trunks and Goten can't do something....has what to do with Gotenks who can go ssj3 and have proven himself to be more powerful. And being more powerful means being faster. actually hes never "proven" himself to be stronger. goku actually never went ssj 3 to fight super buu, only kid buu. he was ssj2 the entire fight when he was teamed with vegeta

And Gokou admitting neither he nor Vegeta can win means nothing after Buu returns to Super Buu when they are inside? Because he knows how powerful he is and Gokou isn't one to say he can't win if he can't win. Or when Vegeta tells about his plan to revive everybody on Earth Gokou's first words are about getting Gohan and Gotenks to fight Kid Buu. And Vegeta doesn't go ssj2 until he tries to stall Kid Buu. Both he and Gokou stay ssj inside Buu never going higher until they fight Kid Buu and have no other choice but to fight. Not to mention Gokou is so worried about being unable to save his sons from Buu's blast he knew he couldn't block that he couldn't even IT away.

Originally posted by Kento
And Gokou admitting neither he nor Vegeta can win means nothing after Buu returns to Super Buu when they are inside? Because he knows how powerful he is and Gokou isn't one to say he can't win if he can't win. Or when Vegeta tells about his plan to revive everybody on Earth Gokou's first words are about getting Gohan and Gotenks to fight Kid Buu. And Vegeta doesn't go ssj2 until he tries to stall Kid Buu. Both he and Gokou stay ssj inside Buu never going higher until they fight Kid Buu and have no other choice but to fight. Not to mention Gokou is so worried about being unable to save his sons from Buu's blast he knew he couldn't block that he couldn't even IT away. um no him admitting he cant beat someone means absolutely nothing. this is dbz here. exxageration runs rampant sometimes, like when cell says he can destroy a universe. unlesss ur admitting thats true. clearly goku isnt the smartest person, other wise he woulda gone ssj 3, that is if he could. and they did go ssj2, i have no idea why they didnt go ssj2 inside buu, but it could possibly be because they realized it was futile and that they couldnt escape from inside him

There is a huge difference in Gokou admitting he can't win after feeling somebodies power and knowing his own limits than Cell saying he can destroy the solar system. And Gokou may not be smart but he can tell who is stronger than him and knows his own limits. Why else did he put Gohan against Cell even though Gohan didn't think he was strong enough. Vegeta didn't disagree either with it and he felt Gokou's power at ssj3. You really believe Gokou wouldn't have blocked a blast he knew he could have to save his sons after being all depressed about not being able to? This is Gokou he does what he can to save everybody if he has the power.

I see it like this


power-wise

Vegito>>Gohan absorbed Buu>Gotenks absorbed Buu>Mystic Gohan>Kid Buu>>Super Buu=Gotenks>SS3 Goku

Kid Buu is the strongest form. Supreme Kai said so because he is also Buu at his purest form.

I haven't watched Dragonball Z in forever but how the hell do you forget that?

Originally posted by superchron
I see it like this


power-wise

Vegito>>Gohan absorbed Buu>Gotenks absorbed Buu>Mystic Gohan>Super Buu=Gotenks>SS3 Goku i put goku right after gohan absorbed buu.

Oops

Originally posted by chickenlover98
what makes him stronger is that he could have beat kid buu, the strongest buu, if he had been fully powered.

Have you even watched that fight at all?

He could have beaten Fat Buu but he had been fighting Vegeta.

Sigh, this is just funny

Originally posted by chithappens
Kid Buu is the strongest form. Supreme Kai said so because he is also Buu at his purest form.

I haven't watched Dragonball Z in forever but how the hell do you forget that?

Actually, Kid Buu wasn't the most powerful, just the most dangerous cuz he's pure evil and ruthless

Originally posted by chithappens
Have you even watched that fight at all?

He could have beaten Fat Buu but he had been fighting Vegeta.

Sigh, this is just funny i know he coulda been fat buu. duh. the reason he didnt is cause he wanted earth to be able tol save itself so he didnt have to do all the work all the time.

Goku said at full power he could have beaten Fat Buu, not Kid Buu, when the fight started, Goku was full power and trying to kill Kid Buu, Buu was just toying with Goku

Originally posted by superchron
Actually, Kid Buu wasn't the most powerful, just the most dangerous cuz he's pure evil and ruthless

Who said that? I remember Supreme Kai saying what I mentioned

Originally posted by chithappens
Who said that? I remember Supreme Kai saying what I mentioned

I think it was a throwaway line on Supreme Kai's part, I'm not sure though

I'm gonna say one thing.

According to feats, Broly>>>Any other DBZ character.

In the book I have from viz the Old Kaioshin says he was the most difficult and that the souls he absorbed tamed him after Kaioshin tells the story and then Kaioshin says he's pure evil. Never really mentions power at all. Well Gokou does as he's transforming about how the chi is getting bigger but that was when he was buff and they seem pretty cocky at being able to easily take Kid Buu when he's done turning back to his original form.

Originally posted by superchron
Goku said at full power he could have beaten Fat Buu, not Kid Buu, when the fight started, Goku was full power and trying to kill Kid Buu, Buu was just toying with Goku goku told vegeta that if he charged up to full power ssj 3 he could beat kid buu. thats why vegeta got his ass kicked while goku was powering up. but his living body couldnt handle all the energy from ssj3

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I'm gonna say one thing.

According to feats, Broly>>>Any other DBZ character. um according to power level, ssj 2 anyone>broly. legendary super saiyan is below ssj2 but way stronger than ssj1

Originally posted by chickenlover98
goku told vegeta that if he charged up to full power ssj 3 he could beat kid buu. thats why vegeta got his ass kicked while goku was powering up. but his living body couldnt handle all the energy from ssj3 And that's only because Buu's durablity isn't on par with everybody else not because he was more powerful.

As for Broli...there is nothing suggesting ssj2 is stronger than Broli. Not when Broli easily would be destroying the Z fighters all at once after they had all trained in the Spirit and Time room since Trunks had long hair. Meaning Gohan and Gokou would be near Cells level. He was beaten by a plot device that should never have won at all. He was also able to block the triple Kamehameha from Goten, Gohan, and Gokou in his second movie. It wasn't until he hit the sun that he was killed. His durability is also one of the highest if not the highest.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
um according to power level, ssj 2 anyone>broly. legendary super saiyan is below ssj2 but way stronger than ssj1 Power level? Broly is not subject to the hierarchy as he is uncanon, he has ONSCREEN busted a galaxy, and could take the sun's heat to an extent.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
um according to power level, ssj 2 anyone>broly. legendary super saiyan is below ssj2 but way stronger than ssj1

SSJ2 Gohan got his whole ass handed to him by Broly in a movie while trying to protect Goten and Trunks.

Originally posted by chithappens
SSJ2 Gohan got his whole ass handed to him by Broly in a movie while trying to protect Goten and Trunks. Did Gohan go ssj2 in that movie? I know he had the ability to but I don't remember actually seeing the lightning around him but then again it's been years since I seen the movie.

Yeah he was. It was pretty bad too. He even tricked Broly into lava and it didn't work

YEah, Broly could takes the suns heay to an extent.

Well didn't Broli come up with his shield around him though? So I don't think Broli could have survived the lava for long periods. Gohan gave a good fight...until Broli stopped messing around and went LSSJ. Only parts I remember clearly involve Trunks. That and the triple Kamehameha. I really want to see that movie again now.

Originally posted by Kento
Well didn't Broli come up with his shield around him though? So I don't think Broli could have survived the lava for long periods. Gohan gave a good fight...until Broli stopped messing around and went LSSJ. Only parts I remember clearly involve Trunks. That and the triple Kamehameha. I really want to see that movie again now. He had a shield...Nut Broly was taking the sun gor a devent while.

Super Buu is stronger than kid buu. Thats like saying Perfect Cell is stronger than Super Perfect cell. Kid Buu was just the most violent and direct form.

Let's find some proof. I would but this dial up is just too slow. Just youtube a video from the series.

There really isn't any valid proof on who is the strongest between Kid Buu and Super Buu. Super Buu doesn't really fight Gokou or Vegeta in the manga anyway I think he may in filler episodes, and Kid Buu never fights Gohan or Gotenks. Then there is Kid Buu's power being underestimated by Vegeta and Gokou when they see him, and Vegeta being surprised by what Kid Buu was capable of when he tried to fight him even though he had just watched Kid Buu fight Gokou and being nearly killed in a minute. There is Gokou admitting Super Buu was more powerful than he was but fighting Kid Buu though that can be explained as him having no choice at all since he and Vegeta were the only ones left at the time so he had nobody stronger to leave it up to like Gotenks or Gohan. I think some people believe Kid Buu to be stronger than Super Buu because they think Gokou is stronger than Gohan and obviously Gohan is stronger than Super Buu. I think the Buu's are more around the same power even though we never really seen Kid Buu go all out. Both stronger than Gokou yet weaker than Gohan. Kid Buu is just more destructive.

Kid Buu was considered the most dangerous due to his primal and chaotic personality, he's unpredicatble and therefore a serious threat since he won't listen to reason and logic. Although Mystic Gohan is the most powerful non-fused character in the whole series and could have easily defeated Kid Buu as he did with Evil Buu.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
YEah, Broly could takes the suns heay to an extent. as i have siad before heat resistance doesnt affect overall durability. plus that could have just been ki, he could go into space by creating a ki shield around himself

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Kid Buu was considered the most dangerous due to his primal and chaotic personality, he's unpredicatble and therefore a serious threat since he won't listen to reason and logic. Although Mystic Gohan is the most powerful non-fused character in the whole series and could have easily defeated Kid Buu as he did with Evil Buu. thats your opinion, its never actually stated that gohan is stronger than goku. and you cnt say goku couldnt have beat super buu because in reality he NEVER fought him at ssj3

Goku admitted Super Buu was stronger than him, and said he would kill him and Vegita if they fought. Gohan toyed with that same Super Buu.

Originally posted by superchron
Goku admitted Super Buu was stronger than him, and said he would kill him and Vegita if they fought. Gohan toyed with that same Super Buu. goku never went ssj3. case in point

Goku admitted he would lose, he knew his own power and he knew Buu was more powerful then him

Originally posted by superchron
Goku admitted he would lose, he knew his own power and he knew Buu was more powerful then him bullshit, he couldnt handle ssj3, because he didnt want to overload his body, which what happened when he fought kid buu

When he fought Kid Buu, he started at full strength,Buu just wore him down, although SS3 takes a toll on his body, he still started at full power and couldn't kill Kid Buu.


Goku said he would lose

Goku's word>>>>>>>>>>your opinion

Originally posted by superchron
When he fought Kid Buu, he started at full strength,Buu just wore him down, although SS3 takes a toll on his body, he still started at full power and couldn't kill Kid Buu.


Goku said he would lose

Goku's word>>>>>>>>>>your opinion rewatch/reread, goku was never full power ssj3, thats why he had vegeta stall so he could charge his ki to full power. before he got to full he started losing energy because his body couldnt take it

Originally posted by chickenlover98
as i have siad before heat resistance doesnt affect overall durability. plus that could have just been ki, he could go into space by creating a ki shield around himself Yeah it does really. Especially when he was being pushed through the sun by 3 Kamehamehas and his own blast.

Goku was never the kind of guy who boasted himself, he was never arrogant and full of himself. If he knows a battle is hopless he will let u know, and he already knew Super Buu was to much despite the combined efforts of him and vegeta. He even rejected fusing with Veg cause he was certain they could take kid buu on there own, even if he was wrong afterwards it still doesnt change the fact they he willing to face him.

On the other hand he wasnt even willing to test himself agaisnt super buu, the same super buu that was played around with by Gohan. So if anything on panel evidence suggest Gohan>>>>Goku.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yeah it does really. Especially when he was being pushed through the sun by 3 Kamehamehas and his own blast. no it doesnt. like ive said before having a natural resistance to heat doesnt make you invincible. you can withstand up to five thousand degrees, but that doesnt provent you from being shot in the head. for broly it could have just been natural resistance or just sheer ki output

Originally posted by chickenlover98
no it doesnt. like ive said before having a natural resistance to heat doesnt make you invincible. you can withstand up to five thousand degrees, but that doesnt provent you from being shot in the head. for broly it could have just been natural resistance or just sheer ki output Broly's defense is from his massive Ki...So yeah, it was from Ki output, but that Ki is part of his natural durability in LSSJ form. Broly was sent through the entire sun, by FTL blasts(got to sun in seconds), his durability>>>Any other DBZ character.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Broly's defense is from his massive Ki...So yeah, it was from Ki output, but that Ki is part of his natural durability in LSSJ form. Broly was sent through the entire sun, by FTL blasts(got to sun in seconds), his durability>>>Any other DBZ character. not necessarily. no dbz char other than broly outputs ki around their body in the manner that broly does, thats why he could fly in space and no one else could. rather that broly was just terrifying and that LSSJ is much much stronger than ssj. but ssj2 is stronger than that

Originally posted by chickenlover98
not necessarily. no dbz char other than broly outputs ki around their body in the manner that broly does, thats why he could fly in space and no one else could. rather that broly was just terrifying and that LSSJ is much much stronger than ssj. but ssj2 is stronger than that Broly was swatting SSJ2 Gohan like a fly. Broly according to feats is greater than any and all DBZ characters. All DBZ characters get more durability from their Ki, but Broly does it better, his Ki also constantly rises in battle.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Broly was swatting SSJ2 Gohan like a fly. Broly according to feats is greater than any and all DBZ characters. All DBZ characters get more durability from their Ki, but Broly does it better, his Ki also constantly rises in battle. A: gohan never went ssj2 in the movie. B: even if he had it was stated by vegeta that he was weaker than when he was fighting cell

Originally posted by chickenlover98
A: gohan never went ssj2 in the movie. B: even if he had it was stated by vegeta that he was weaker than when he was fighting cell Yes he did. Yeah, weaker. But Gohan SSJ2 PWNED Cell until he went Super Perfect, who was still killed by a one armed Gohan. Broly destroyed SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ Goten, and SSJ Trunks EASILY.

Originally posted by superchron
Goku admitted Super Buu was stronger than him, and said he would kill him and Vegita if they fought. Gohan toyed with that same Super Buu.

Sigh, Gohan was doing that before he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo. Also when Goku admits this he had already absorbed Gohan. That didn't prove a thing

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yes he did. Yeah, weaker. But Gohan SSJ2 PWNED Cell until he went Super Perfect, who was still killed by a one armed Gohan. Broly destroyed SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ Goten, and SSJ Trunks EASILY. prove that it was ssj 2 gohan. because it wasnt.

EDIT: also do realize, that the saiyan power up still applies to broly. when a saiyan is pushed to the brink of death, and recovers, he is powered up immensely

Originally posted by chithappens
Sigh, Gohan was doing that before he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo. Also when Goku admits this he had already absorbed Gohan. That didn't prove a thing ty

Originally posted by chithappens
Sigh, Gohan was doing that before he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo. Also when Goku admits this he had already absorbed Gohan. That didn't prove a thing He also said the same thing after him and Vegeta went inside Buu and pretty much freed their friends. This left Buu in the same state he was in when Gohan fought him, and Goku said he and Vegeta would get killed.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
prove that it was ssj 2 gohan. because it wasnt.

EDIT: also do realize, that the saiyan power up still applies to broly. when a saiyan is pushed to the brink of death, and recovers, he is powered up immensely I will later. Too lazy.

2. Kay. But that is weird as Gohan said Broly was just as powerful as before, not more or less. But meh.

Top Herald: Super Kid Buu (South kaioshen Absorbed)
High Herald: Super Vegetto (SSJ3 would be a set back)
Mid Herald: Gohan Buu>Gotenks Buu>Ultimate Gohan
Low Herald: SSJ3 Gotenks=Super Buu>Gotenks>SSJ3 Goku

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Top Herald: Super Kid Buu (South kaioshen Absorbed)
High Herald: Super Vegetto (SSJ3 would be a set back)
Mid Herald: Gohan Buu>Gotenks Buu>Ultimate Gohan
Low Herald: SSJ3 Gotenks=Super Buu>Gotenks>SSJ3 Goku Oh that's Super Kid Buu...Now my next question....How is Buu of any kind above Vegetto?

Originally posted by Kento
Oh that's Super Kid Buu...Now my next question....How is Buu of any kind above Vegetto?

Just this Buu is.

The South Kaioshen was the strongest of any Kaioshen ever.

And Kid Buu's absorption of that particular Kaioshen seemed to multiply his power greater than Super Buu's absorptions.

Notice how Kid Buu had no enterest in absorbing SSJ2 Vegeta, or even Goku SSJ3?

Not only was the South Kaioshen the only being that Kid Buu took enterest in absorbing other than the Dai Kaioshen, but he didn't take any of his aspects, not the clothing, not the personality, and gained astronomical strength.

NOTE, Super Kid Buu was much much much more powerful than the Kaioshen, but was also pure evil, and according to DBZ logic, Good>>>>Evil.

Actually the strongest Kaioshen was the Kaishin of the North, as was stated by Supreme Kai, and it was also stated that Super Kid Buu absorbed him too, and there was no change.

And then finally Kid Buu absorbed the Dai-Kaioshen, which turned him into fat Buu.

At any rate Vegetto is at the top of the food chain in the series, mystic Gohan is the most powerful non-fused character and vastly beyond Kid buu,SSJ3 Goku and Gotenks.

Actually I believe Dai Kaioshin was the most powerful, with the buff South Kaioshin being the physically mightiest. Afterall, Dai Kaioshin was able to repel Super Kid Buu as you call him(I prefer Ultra Buu or Buff Buu) with a blast.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Just this Buu is.

The South Kaioshen was the strongest of any Kaioshen ever.

And Kid Buu's absorption of that particular Kaioshen seemed to multiply his power greater than Super Buu's absorptions.

Notice how Kid Buu had no enterest in absorbing SSJ2 Vegeta, or even Goku SSJ3?

Not only was the South Kaioshen the only being that Kid Buu took enterest in absorbing other than the Dai Kaioshen, but he didn't take any of his aspects, not the clothing, not the personality, and gained astronomical strength.

NOTE, Super Kid Buu was much much much more powerful than the Kaioshen, but was also pure evil, and according to DBZ logic, Good>>>>Evil. Just because the actually powerful Kaioshins were probably more powerful than Gokou how does that mean they are more powerful than Vegetto? None really have any feats to show who is powerful but I find it hard to believe that Buu would be more powerful than Gohan absorbed Buu. And even if he was not to the extent Vegetto was. He was toying with Buu and not even fully powered up.

And why would Kid Buu want to absorb the people he was playing around with? He's only absorbed people stronger than him...and Piccolo who gave him something he needed which was brains. Not that it helped against a more powerful foe. In most things good is always shown to be stronger than evil also so how is it DBZ's logic? Gokou at least used a attack that destroys evil more or less to win where in most other things and all the other DB sagas the hero just suddenly gets strong enough to win.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
At any rate Vegetto is at the top of the food chain in the series, mystic Gohan is the most powerful non-fused character and vastly beyond Kid buu,SSJ3 Goku and Gotenks.

Super Kid Buu is to Kid Buu as Super Buu is to Fat Buu.

All of the Kaioshins were much weaker than Ultimate Gohan and even SSJ3 Goku, but Kid Buu's absorption did more than amp his power the way a regular absorption would...

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Super Kid Buu is to Kid Buu as Super Buu is to Fat Buu.

All of the Kaioshins were much weaker than Ultimate Gohan and even SSJ3 Goku, but Kid Buu's absorption did more than amp his power the way a regular absorption would... I would say those Kaioshin were weaker just because Kaioshin is so much weaker. I mean Kid Buu did absorb 2 of them while he just sorta toyed with Gokou and Vegeta. Not that I really have any proof they are stronger than Gokou...but Kaioshin was said to be weaker than the rest so he's a bad judge on power for the others.

As for them being absorbed...the fat one made him weaker and tame who knows if the buff one made him stronger at all.

Originally posted by Kento
I would say those Kaioshin were weaker just because Kaioshin is so much weaker. I mean Kid Buu did absorb 2 of them while he just sorta toyed with Gokou and Vegeta. Not that I really have any proof they are stronger than Gokou...but Kaioshin was said to be weaker than the rest so he's a bad judge on power for the others.

As for them being absorbed...the fat one made him weaker and tame who knows if the buff one made him stronger at all. hes extremely weak. in fact i seriously doubt most of the kais have any real power whatsoever. in fact all the kais shown are worthless. bibidi engineered buu solely for destroying them, so it makes sense hed gain more power by absorbing them

Tell that to Fat Buu who is the weakest Buu.

Originally posted by Kento
Tell that to Fat Buu who is the weakest Buu. well you see when you get fat you get slower and your doughier so your punchs do less damage

Tell that to Heart from Fist of the North Star. *laughs*