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Bored.....so lets do this. Try not to let the insults get out of hand. Punisher vs Wolverine. Punisher gets 2hrs prep, fight takes place in a factory.

no human being deserves this a second time.

Wolverine 7/10. Punisher is one of the best, but Logan IS the best .

pun without prep?
wolverine 9/10.
with prep?
frank 9/10

Originally posted by Sado22
no human being deserves this a second time.

Im bored. You can only go so long without being flamed.

Two hours?

Wolverine destroys him.

...no he wont

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im bored. You can only go so long without being flamed. Is this a bait thread? Shall I warn you, dur you or ban you? uhuh






















biscuits

REPORTED!!

oh and frank definitely wins with prep. heck i bet him wins without prep too. bullet to the brain, wolverine dropped. frank ties him up, shoves a miniature bomb up his nose and blows his brains out

Originally posted by Sado22
REPORTED!!

oh and frank definitely wins with prep. heck i bet him wins without prep too. bullet to the brain, wolverine dropped. frank ties him up, shoves a miniature bomb up his nose and blows his brains out thats made my day that has

Originally posted by Badabing
Is this a bait thread? Shall I warn you, dur you or ban you? uhuh
















biscuits

Im just bored. Hopefully we can discuss it again in a civil manner or not.

Wolverine

Originally posted by Sado22
REPORTED!!

oh and frank definitely wins with prep. heck i bet him wins without prep too. bullet to the brain, wolverine dropped. frank ties him up, shoves a miniature bomb up his nose and blows his brains out

Frank MIGHT be able to win without prep. Maybe.

But, none of those scans apply to Punisher.. as in... at all.

"The hail of bullets" after 3 days of no food or sleep, and whethering an explosion that leveled a mosk.

Mystique was after that AND being blown up to a skeleton AND being shot with a hail of bullets again..

Deadpool-healing factor. In a fight where Wolverine had his number 5 times.... in a fight that was nothing more than a set-up anyway...

Scalphunter- Wolverine was fighting marauders.

Originally posted by jinzin
Frank MIGHT be able to win without prep. Maybe.

But, none of those scans apply to Punisher.. as in... at all.

"The hail of bullets" after 3 days of no food or sleep, and whethering an explosion that leveled a mosk.

Mystique was after that AND being blown up to a skeleton AND being shot with a hail of bullets again..

Deadpool-healing factor. In a fight where Wolverine had his number 5 times.... in a fight that was nothing more than a set-up anyway...

Scalphunter- Wolverine was fighting marauders.

By the way your respect thread does well in providing evidence that he can't be dropped by handguns. However he was breifly Koed by a bullet from a handgun to the head in Wolverine 8, it did not state wether it got him in the brain but we see a splatter of blood and see Wolverine drop to the floor. I suspect that the bullet got him in the eye, if it had got him right on the skull I think there would have hardly been any blood or it would have bounced off.

There is actually evidence in your thread that indicates that Wolverine can be dropped by machine guns and at least slowed down by them.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im just bored. Hopefully we can discuss it again in a civil manner or not. I hope so.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
By the way your respect thread does well in providing evidence that he can't be dropped by handguns. However he was breifly Koed by a bullet from a handgun to the head in Wolverine 8, it did not state wether it got him in the brain but we see a splatter of blood and see Wolverine drop to the floor. I suspect that the bullet got him in the eye, if it had got him right on the skull I think there would have hardly been any blood or it would have bounced off.

There is actually evidence in your thread that indicates that Wolverine can be dropped by machine guns and at least slowed down by them.

Meh it's a monority feat. And yes there's evidence that Wolverine can be slowed down by bullets lest he gets pissed off. There's mulitudes of evidence after fatal attractions that machine gun fire just isn't working on Logan a majority of the time.

Who says Punisher resorts to machine gun fire? Punisher is as straight up a marksman as anybody in the MU. Two hours to prep a factory? When he's actually held his own and gotten the better of Logan when he's been ambushed? And embarassed Logan when he was prepped, but not specifically against Wolverine? And when he's lost one against Wolverine? If you like on-panel evidence so much, 2 hours of prep against Wolverine is better then what Punisher has historically had against him, arguably, except in a Wolverine comic.

Punisher 6/10. Would be more if Punisher had access to Stu Clarke's tech.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Who says Punisher resorts to machine gun fire? Punisher is as straight up a marksman as anybody in the MU. Two hours to prep a factory? When he's actually held his own and gotten the better of Logan when he's been ambushed? And embarassed Logan when he was prepped, but not specifically against Wolverine? And when he's lost one against Wolverine?
Punisher hasn't done well against Wolverine aside from get lucky or momentarily hold him off, which is what everyone thinks Punisher should be capible of anyway. He's never going to get a straight win over Logan and never has. If you like on-panel evidence so much, 2 hours of prep against Wolverine is better then what Punisher has historically had against him, arguably, except in a Wolverine comic.

Punisher 6/10. Would be more if Punisher had access to Stu Clarke's tech. lol, you're the one who bawls about on panel evidence since Wolverine started getting shot in the brain every month.

Punisher has been one shotted by Wolverine.
He's was able to do nothing more than keep Wolverine at bay after ambushing him.
Even under ENNIS he was losing that fight completely until the nut shot which was luck according to Punisher. And even if he had lit Logan on fire so what? Wolverine would have just kept coming.
Then Wolverine beat him down a mall.
Sure Punisher hit him with a rocket launcher once again under Ennis. great evidence by the way.

Wolverine's done better against opponents with more prep time than Pun has and more resources, even powers...


Punisher should be able to pull a majority here slightly possibly maybe.. all depends on what he can get in two hours. Bullets? Yeah that's not going to win this for him.

Originally posted by jinzin
Punisher should be able to pull a majority here slightly possibly maybe.. all depends on what he can get in two hours. Bullets? Yeah that's not going to win this for him.

That basically sums it up.

Originally posted by jinzin
Meh it's a monority feat.

No its not actually in terms of handguns yes, but as I stated earlier hes been Koed by what looked like a bullet to the eye in Wolverine issue 8 (volume 2 I think), so it can be argued that if hes hit in the eye it will KO him.

Originally posted by jinzin
And yes there's evidence that Wolverine can be slowed down by bullets lest he gets pissed off.

Im afraid as it stands you don't have enough evidence. I think I know what example you are refering to. What that proves is that he can recover more quickly if he gets pissed off. He only got shot once after that and he didn't sustain anything like the damage that he did before. If they had got sprayed at point blank and it did nothing then that would have proven something.

Wolverine was also in a besrker rage when Deadpool shot him in the head. The Director for Weapon X also dropped Wolverine when he was in a beserker rage. There also no girl whos going to get shot in this thread

Originally posted by jinzin

There's mulitudes of evidence after fatal attractions that machine gun fire just isn't working on Logan a majority of the time.

Sorry you have not proven that in your respect thread and im not going to take your word for it. The irony is that you've even provided more evidence to indicate that he can get gunned down.

Heres evidence that he can take machine gunfire.

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/3/machinegufirehc0.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1427/takesbulletslikenothingkc8.jpg

but you got this....


Its not a machine gun but Frank can get a shotgun
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8375/wolviebuckshot2pf7.jpg

Why is Wolverine covering up his torso? Obvoulsy theres a good chance that if had got hit with machine gun bullets that close he would have been dropped.
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1482/vampgunswr8.jpg

That explains itself.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8659/hailzv9.jpg

You still have other examples.

1. Punisher dropping Wolverine with a bullet.
2. Wolverine getting dropped by bullets at the end of Volume 1
3. Wolverine ducking under a truck because he deosn't want to get shot again by Bushwacker.
4. Deadpool shooting him in the head in Origins.

Also Stu Clark has created guns that shoot bullets faster do more damage and do heat based damage as well. Frank Castle has access to guns and tech that do alot more damage.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Punisher 6/10. Would be more if Punisher had access to Stu Clarke's tech.

He does.

In a scenario fight, the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them. For example, in a scenario set in the DCU, Green Lantern would have access to equipment in the JLA Watchtower, but not the Titans headquarters.

Punisher.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No its not actually in terms of handguns yes, but as I stated earlier hes been Koed by what looked like a bullet to the eye in Wolverine issue 8 (volume 2 I think), so it can be argued that if hes hit in the eye it will KO him.

I see, so your argument stands as that it did indeed go into his eye.

Well in terms of going down to a bullet in the eye I suppose it's not a minority feat, but him going down to bullets, or getting bullets in the eye is in HEFTY minority to the sheer number of times he's been shot.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im afraid as it stands you don't have enough evidence. I think I know what example you are refering to. What that proves is that he can recover more quickly if he gets pissed off. He only got shot once after that and he didn't sustain anything like the damage that he did before. If they had got sprayed at point blank and it did nothing then that would have proven something.

Wolverine was also in a besrker rage when Deadpool shot him in the head. The Director for Weapon X also dropped Wolverine when he was in a beserker rage. There also no girl whos going to get shot in this thread

Weapon X? Are you talking about immediately after his Adamantium injection? Do you have any grasp on how taxed his HF was due to that or the chemical treatments he was taking?

Sure, they dropped him with gas and tranqs soon after his injection, but weeks after he'd gotten accustomed to his new gifts and curse, he took down their entire security squadron with little to no trouble whatsoever.

Deadpool had to shoot Wolverine in the brain to drop him, which we already established should. I'm arguing the point vs. topical damage.




Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Sorry you have not proven that in your respect thread and im not going to take your word for it. The irony is that you've even provided more evidence to indicate that he can get gunned down.

Heres evidence that he can take machine gunfire.

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/3/machinegufirehc0.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1427/takesbulletslikenothingkc8.jpg

but you got this....


Its not a machine gun but Frank can get a shotgun
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8375/wolviebuckshot2pf7.jpg

Why is Wolverine covering up his torso? Obvoulsy theres a good chance that if had got hit with machine gun bullets that close he would have been dropped.
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1482/vampgunswr8.jpg

That explains itself.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8659/hailzv9.jpg

You still have other examples.

1. Punisher dropping Wolverine with a bullet.
2. Wolverine getting dropped by bullets at the end of Volume 1
3. Wolverine ducking under a truck because he deosn't want to get shot again by Bushwacker.
4. Deadpool shooting him in the head in Origins.

Also Stu Clark has created guns that shoot bullets faster do more damage and do heat based damage as well. Frank Castle has access to guns and tech that do alot more damage.


Yes I have proven that in my respect thread, it's been quite proven actually.

Now I don't have the patience to go over Wolverine's entire career for you AGAIN and point out every error you made in being wrong AGAIN...

All I'm going to say is that you need to re-read what I posted then look at your examples. Every damned one of them with the exception of the brain shot Deadpool, and the hundreds of bullets in MK are before Fatal Attractions thus irrelivent. I'm not even taking that last story at the end of vol. 1 into account as it's a clearly low showing that's in no way representative of Wolverine "at the best of his capabilities".

The Deadpool feat doesn't even pertain to Punisher as Wolverine hired Deadpool to do that in the first place and likely let DP shoot him in the head to set up Daken (as Wolverine said, maybe you could have done that, maybe not), DP has an HF, Wolverine took tons of damage already, and Wolverine had multiples of oppurtunities to take DP down.

The MK feat only proves that 5 gunmen with full automatic can only temporarily put Wolverine down when he's pretty passive and unaware and the bullets have virtually no effect on his performance if he gets pissed off.

Now I don't know if you're being ignorant again, or just bias but you need to recheck your evidence before you post it.

Originally posted by jinzin
I see, so your argument stands as that it did indeed go into his eye.


Yes and I gave my reasons, the amount of blood splatter. As you can see from some of your examples when he gets shot in the head there is little blood or none at all. Also the blood splatter was around the eye region.

Originally posted by jinzin

Well in terms of going down to a bullet in the eye I suppose it's not a minority feat, but him going down to bullets, or getting bullets in the eye is in HEFTY minority to the sheer number of times he's been shot.


Don't care as it stands the evidence indicates that he can go down to a shot in the eye.


Originally posted by jinzin

Weapon X? Are you talking about immediately after his Adamantium injection? Do you have any grasp on how taxed his HF was due to that or the chemical treatments he was taking?

We don't know all we know is that he was trying to escape he was in beserker rage and he got dropped.

Originally posted by jinzin

Sure, they dropped him with gas and tranqs soon after his injection, but weeks after he'd gotten accustomed to his new gifts and curse, he took down their entire security squadron with little to no trouble whatsoever.


I bet he didn't take as much damage as he did before.

Originally posted by jinzin

Deadpool had to shoot Wolverine in the brain to drop him, which we already established should. I'm arguing the point vs. topical damage.


Not sure what you're talking about here but all we know is that Wolverine got shot in the head, no mention of it going in the brain.....as far as I know.

Originally posted by jinzin

Yes I have proven that in my respect thread, it's been quite proven actually.

With handguns....yes.

Originally posted by jinzin

Now I don't have the patience to go over Wolverine's entire career for you AGAIN and point out every error you made in being wrong AGAIN...


Don't care not taking your word for it.

Originally posted by jinzin

All I'm going to say is that you need to re-read what I posted then look at your examples. Every damned one of them with the exception of the brain shot Deadpool, and the hundreds of bullets in MK are before Fatal Attractions thus irrelivent. I'm not even taking that last story at the end of vol. 1 into account as it's a clearly low showing that's in no way representative of Wolverine "at the best of his capabilities".

Er about half of them are after fatal attractions. What proof do you have that his HF is greater than it was prior to fatal attractions? I know what you're going to say and that does not prove anything.



Originally posted by jinzin

The Deadpool feat doesn't even pertain to Punisher as Wolverine hired Deadpool to do that in the first place and likely let DP shoot him in the head to set up Daken (as Wolverine said, maybe you could have done that, maybe not), DP has an HF, Wolverine took tons of damage already, and Wolverine had multiples of oppurtunities to take DP down.


Im just focusing on the fact that he can get dropped by bullets. That all, just because Wolverine hired him doesn't mean that Punisher can't win with prep. You think hes HF is greater hes been incinerated to a skeleton and banged about by Janus and still managed to drop Namor. I would assume that it would have reduced his HF but it obvously didn't make that much difference because if it had Namor would have kicked his ass. The damage that he took against DP was nothing in comparison so you are blowing things out of propotion.

Originally posted by jinzin

The MK feat only proves that 5 gunmen with full automatic can only temporarily put Wolverine down when he's pretty passive and unaware and the bullets have virtually no effect on his performance if he gets pissed off.

1. He was pissed off when DP shot him.
2. Already stated that it doesn't prove that he can't get gunned down when hes pissed off because he only got shot once afterwards.
3. Punisher has more powerful guns.


Originally posted by jinzin

Now I don't know if you're being ignorant again, or just bias but you need to recheck your evidence before you post it.

I haven't made it personal, theres no need to start.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes and I gave my reasons, the amount of blood splatter. As you can see from some of your examples when he gets shot in the head there is little blood or none at all. Also the blood splatter was around the eye region.
fair 'nough.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Don't care as it stands the evidence indicates that he can go down to a shot in the eye. Of course you don't because the fact that it's in such a small minority brings into doubt the likelyhood of it happening.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
We don't know all we know is that he was trying to escape he was in beserker rage and he got dropped. He wasn't really in a berserker rage. He was a it mindless but that was partially due to the conditioning he was subjected to.. And again, they used gas and tranqs.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I bet he didn't take as much damage as he did before.


20 guards with machine guns.
A meltdown that melted steel and burned his flesh off.. the hell he didn't.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not sure what you're talking about here but all we know is that Wolverine got shot in the head, no mention of it going in the brain.....as far as I know.
As I said, I'm arguing the point of topical bullet damage because I don't feel Wolverine getting shot in the brain is representative of what would happen in a majoirty of given fights.

It was stated that it went into his brain the very next issue after it happened.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
With handguns....yes.

AND machine guns. But you'd have to look through that thread without ignoring handfuls of evidence and context which you aren't yet prepared to do.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Don't care not taking your word for it.




Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er about half of them are after fatal attractions. What proof do you have that his HF is greater than it was prior to fatal attractions? I know what you're going to say and that does not prove anything. No they weren't. Lol, the fact that it was stated his mutation continued after his Adamantium removal.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im just focusing on the fact that he can get dropped by bullets. That all, just because Wolverine hired him doesn't mean that Punisher can't win with prep. You think hes HF is greater hes been incinerated to a skeleton and banged about by Janus and still managed to drop Namor. I would assume that it would have reduced his HF but it obvously didn't make that much difference because if it had Namor would have kicked his ass. The damage that he took against DP was nothing in comparison so you are blowing things out of propotion.
It's not a fact, it's a fabrication made up by you using feats out of context or ignoring the consequences that the bone claw era had on his HF. This is nothing new for you though so it doesn't surprise me.

No it means that DP needing to draw himself into close quarters and even get into that position to deliver the brain shot in the first place is irrelivent to the Pun thread as it doesn't pertain to Punisher whatsoever lest Pun has a HF and and Logan hired him to do it.
Lol, the guy took tons of damage in both fights. I've blown nothing out of proportion.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
1. He was pissed off when DP shot him.
2. Already stated that it doesn't prove that he can't get gunned down when hes pissed off because he only got shot once afterwards.
3. Punisher has more powerful guns.



DP shot him IN THE BRAIN.. World of difference.
It helps to prove it when there's loads of fights where Logan starts the fights pissed and wades through machine gun fire like nothing.
3 has nothing to do with what that scan proves about bullets or this particular conversation but nice red herring nonetheless.




Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I haven't made it personal, theres no need to start. I'm not being personal with you I'm trying really hard not to, but it's obvious your being massively subjective and misinterpreting events to better suit you're idea of who should win between Wolverine and Punisher, it can only be due to one of two things.

Originally posted by jinzin


Of course you don't because the fact that it's in such a small minority brings into doubt the likelyhood of it happening.

Er no the point im making is that we use the information available. The information as it stands indicates that he can get dropped.

Originally posted by jinzin

He wasn't really in a berserker rage. He was a it mindless but that was partially due to the conditioning he was subjected to.. And again, they used gas and tranqs.

He was howling at the moon. Looks beserker to me.


Originally posted by jinzin

20 guards with machine guns.
A meltdown that melted steel and burned his flesh off.. the hell he didn't.

Well im not sure how much damage that he took in the other instance so i'll have to read the issue again.


Originally posted by jinzin

As I said, I'm arguing the point of topical bullet damage because I don't feel Wolverine getting shot in the brain is representative of what would happen in a majoirty of given fights

Why not? He got shot and he got Koed.

Originally posted by jinzin

It was stated that it went into his brain the very next issue after it happened.


Wolverine said that?

Originally posted by jinzin

AND machine guns. But you'd have to look through that thread without ignoring handfuls of evidence and context which you aren't yet prepared to do.




Jesus Christ I looked through your thread and I even posted examples that proved that he can take machine gunfire. Hell theres even another one which I could have posted but there was no evidence of him getting hit. I even admitted that you had alot of proof for handguns. After reading your thread I evens stated that Wolverine could beat Namor. Serioulsy you call that biased?

Originally posted by jinzin

No they weren't. Lol,:

There was about 8 or 7 examples 4 of them were after fatal attractions.


Originally posted by jinzin

the fact that it was stated his mutation continued after his Adamantium removal.

Yes and he also said that his HF had been greatly reduced so therefore you can't assume that its greater.

Originally posted by jinzin


It's not a fact, it's a fabrication made up by you using feats out of context or ignoring the consequences that the bone claw era had on his HF. This is nothing new for you though so it doesn't surprise me.

No it means that DP needing to draw himself into close quarters and even get into that position to deliver the brain shot in the first place is irrelivent to the Pun thread as it doesn't pertain to Punisher whatsoever lest Pun has a HF and and Logan hired him to do it.
Lol, the guy took tons of damage in both fights. I've blown nothing out of proportion.

Oh ok, so the damage that Wolverine took was worse than being incinerated to the skeleton. Getting into a brawl with Janus and taking class 100 shots from Namor.

Im not arguing about prep skills. Im arguing about how bullets can drop Wolverine.



Originally posted by jinzin



DP shot him IN THE BRAIN.. World of difference.

Pretty sure Pun could so the same.

Originally posted by jinzin

It helps to prove it when there's loads of fights where Logan starts the fights pissed and wades through machine gun fire like nothing.


Well thats not what happened in your example. What do you mean pissed off beserker? There is nothing to indicate that when he tried to escape the facility that his HF was taxed, we just know he tried to escape, he was pissed then.

Im still including examples priot to fatal attractions because you have not proven that is HF is stronger.

Originally posted by jinzin

3 has nothing to do with what that scan proves about bullets or this particular conversation but nice red herring nonetheless.

Ummm if they are more powerful they have a greater chance of dropping him.

I havent read much punisher, but hasnt wolverine pretty much dodged bullets, in recent it seems people have only him him if they were extemely close up or he didnt see it coming

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
I havent read much punisher, but hasnt wolverine pretty much dodged bullets, in recent it seems people have only him him if they were extemely close up or he didnt see it coming

Punisher isn't just some guy with a gun. Hes shot Spiderman.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Punisher isn't just some guy with a gun. Hes shot Spiderman. ok, but wolverine is pretty fast thats all im saying I think wolverine could take 4/10

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
ok, but wolverine is pretty fast thats all im saying I think wolverine could take 4/10

Fair enough.

Wolverine 10/10

Logan stomps punisher every time pritty much in a non prep match.

however with two hour of prep, punisher could possiably take the majority even still it could be quite closes.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Logan stomps punisher every time pritty much in a non prep match.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

however with two hour of prep, punisher could possiably take the majority even still it could be quite closes.

lol

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Punisher isn't just some guy with a gun. Hes shot Spiderman.
inexperienced spiderman who gave away were he was going, becuases he very unskilled, but even still it was impressive.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er no the point im making is that we use the information available. The information as it stands indicates that he can get dropped.
Ur point is skewed because.... "the fact that it's in such a small minority brings into doubt the likelyhood of it happening."

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He was howling at the moon. Looks beserker to me.

Which just goes to show A) How little you still know about Wolverine or B) How little you know about the circumstances revolving around the X project.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well im not sure how much damage that he took in the other instance so i'll have to read the issue again.
*read above*

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Why not? He got shot and he got Koed.

Ughhh... Because....

He was shot in the brain which AGAIN... "the fact that it's in such a small minority brings into doubt the likelyhood of it happening."

And... "DP needing to draw himself into close quarters and even get into that position to deliver the brain shot in the first place is irrelivent to the Pun thread as it doesn't pertain to Punisher whatsoever lest Pun has a HF and and Logan hired him to do it."


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wolverine said that?
For god's sake read the issue..

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Jesus Christ I looked through your thread and I even posted examples that proved that he can take machine gunfire. Hell theres even another one which I could have posted but there was no evidence of him getting hit. I even admitted that you had alot of proof for handguns. After reading your thread I evens stated that Wolverine could beat Namor. Serioulsy you call that biased?
It's a Punisher thread isn't it? So yes, to have read through that thread and then continue to insist that machine gun fire is sufficient enough to take Logan down under optimum conditions is very likely the product of bias.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
There was about 8 or 7 examples 4 of them were after fatal attractions.
you only had 3 post fatal attractions 2 of which don't pertain to Punisher in a fight, the last nothing more than a low showing.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes and he also said that his HF had been greatly reduced so therefore you can't assume that its greater.
No feats against him show that his HF was reduced. He's doing better featwise than he was four years ago.. so yes I can assume that his HF is better. Quite better if he's getting up from a bullet to the brain immediately after being hit, a better feat that Sabretooth could pull off 3 years ago who at the time was stated to have a better HF than Logan. I really don't know how many times I have to pound that point into your brain, or how many times your BIAS is capible of simply ignoring it... like you alway do.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh ok, so the damage that Wolverine took was worse than being incinerated to the skeleton. Getting into a brawl with Janus and taking class 100 shots from Namor. Lol you missed the point completely. The point is that DP did all the damage he could on Logan and it wasn't enough to take him down. He HAD to resort to drawing him in for a brain shot to take him down. Punisher doesn't have an HF and Wolverine didn't hire Punisher to take him down in this fight so Origins is next to irrelivent here except for pointing out how horribly prep, and punishment faired against a Logan who was only putting on a show and not in a real fight.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im not arguing about prep skills. Im arguing about how bullets can drop Wolverine. I know what you're arguing. And unless Wolverine is shot in the brain or there's other circumstances involved. You're wrong.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Pretty sure Pun could so the same.
Cause Punisher has a Healing Factor that can afford him to get that close. And Wolverine hired Punisher for this fight so he'll only be putting on a production right?

You're wrong.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well thats not what happened in your example. What do you mean pissed off beserker? There is nothing to indicate that when he tried to escape the facility that his HF was taxed, we just know he tried to escape, he was pissed then.

You simply can't grasp what that examples for can you?

If five men with machine guns only suceeded in slowing Wolverine down. But he got immediately up when he got pissed.
And there's loads of examples of him starting fights pissed where more than 5 men with machine guns can't put Logan down.
And Logan says adrednaline boosts the HF.. it stands to reason that example doesn't do much to show what'd happen to a Logan that knew he was in a fight.

Wolverine's HF wasn't taxed after the injection.. right..

because you know soooo much about Weapon X, or Wolverine for that matter..

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im still including examples priot to fatal attractions because you have not proven that is HF is stronger.
There's plenty enough evidence to prove that. Period. I'm not going over all of them again cause the only thing you're capible of doing is ignoring evidence lest it suites you.
You've not proven that it's weaker.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ummm if they are more powerful they have a greater chance of dropping him. Again it's nothing more than a tangent to the current conversation about Logan vs. Bullets.

Originally posted by jinzin
Ur point is skewed because.... "the fact that it's in such a small minority brings into doubt the likelyhood of it happening."



Which just goes to show A) How little you still know about Wolverine or B) How little you know about the circumstances revolving around the X project.


*read above*



Ughhh... Because....

He was shot in the brain which AGAIN... "the fact that it's in such a small minority brings into doubt the likelyhood of it happening."

And... "DP needing to draw himself into close quarters and even get into that position to deliver the brain shot in the first place is irrelivent to the Pun thread as it doesn't pertain to Punisher whatsoever lest Pun has a HF and and Logan hired him to do it."



For god's sake read the issue..


It's a Punisher thread isn't it? So yes, to have read through that thread and then continue to insist that machine gun fire is sufficient enough to take Logan down under optimum conditions is very likely the product of bias.


you only had 3 post fatal attractions 2 of which don't pertain to Punisher in a fight, the last nothing more than a low showing.


No feats against him show that his HF was reduced. He's doing better featwise than he was four years ago.. so yes I can assume that his HF is better. Quite better if he's getting up from a bullet to the brain immediately after being hit, a better feat that Sabretooth could pull off 3 years ago who at the time was stated to have a better HF than Logan. I really don't know how many times I have to pound that point into your brain, or how many times your BIAS is capible of simply ignoring it... like you alway do.

Lol you missed the point completely. The point is that DP did all the damage he could on Logan and it wasn't enough to take him down. He HAD to resort to drawing him in for a brain shot to take him down. Punisher doesn't have an HF and Wolverine didn't hire Punisher to take him down in this fight so Origins is next to irrelivent here except for pointing out how horribly prep, and punishment faired against a Logan who was only putting on a show and not in a real fight.

I know what you're arguing. And unless Wolverine is shot in the brain or there's other circumstances involved. You're wrong.


Cause Punisher has a Healing Factor that can afford him to get that close. And Wolverine hired Punisher for this fight so he'll only be putting on a production right?

You're wrong.





You simply can't grasp what that examples for can you?

If five men with machine guns only suceeded in slowing Wolverine down. But he got immediately up when he got pissed.
And there's loads of examples of him starting fights pissed where more than 5 men with machine guns can't put Logan down.
And Logan says adrednaline boosts the HF.. it stands to reason that example doesn't do much to show what'd happen to a Logan that knew he was in a fight.

Wolverine's HF wasn't taxed after the injection.. right..

because you know soooo much about Weapon X, or Wolverine for that matter..


There's plenty enough evidence to prove that. Period. I'm not going over all of them again cause the only thing you're capible of doing is ignoring evidence lest it suites you.
You've not proven that it's weaker.

Again it's nothing more than a tangent to the current conversation about Logan vs. Bullets.

Look forget it I cant be assed with this.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Look forget it I cant be assed with this.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the winner - by forfeit - I give you, the one, the only, Jinzin!!!

lol

What I will say though is this. Wolverine stated that his HF has not been this bad in years. Since Peter has only aged 15 years in over 40 years, 1993 is only a few or several years ago. Therefore his HF is probably what it was prior to FA.


Anyway Punisher now has acces to stuff more powerful than conventional guns.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What I will say though is this. Wolverine stated that his HF has not been this bad in years. Since Peter has only aged 15 years in over 40 years, 1993 is only a few or several years ago. Therefore his HF is probably what it was prior to FA.


Anyway Punisher now has acces to stuff more powerful than conventional guns.

And you can keep saying that til you're blue in the face, you'll still be wrong. Wolverine's feats of healing are still surpassing what he was doing within the last decade. It's not slower than pre Fatal Attractions every feat he's got is better.

Originally posted by jinzin
And you can keep saying that til you're blue in the face, you'll still be wrong. Wolverine's feats of healing are still surpassing what he was doing within the last decade. It's not slower than pre Fatal Attractions every feat he's got is better.

That doesnt change the fact that what Wolverine said implies that hes talking about pre FA. You're going to ignore what Wolverine said to suit you.

Er so because some of his feats are better than some in 2004? Thats not proof your just taking a small amount of feats and then deciding its better. Im pretty sure some of his feats are equal to pre fatal attractions as well but you probably ignored that. Considering that hes only had this HF for about a year and bit I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That doesnt change the fact that what Wolverine said implies that hes talking about pre FA. You're going to ignore what Wolverine said to suit you.
Lol now you're not only going to tell me what I don't know about Wolverine, but what I don't know about context as well?

BWAHAHA

right....

What Wolverine said was, "healing factor ain't what it's been in years"....

How many years? We don't know, all we have to go off of is feats.
Did Wolverine even know if his HF was actually reduced? NO, he made the statement immediately after making his new deal w/lazear, he hadn't even sustained any damage yet.. And he was basing that claim off of what Lazear told him.. which was
"I can't guarentee your healing factor will remain as strong" which not only leaves open to what degree, but leaves open whether or not Wolvie's HF was reduced AT ALL aside from being able to recover from death.. Which he's also done since then anyways....

At no point was it implied ANYWHERE that his HF is as weak as it was pre-FA.... you've only stated as much because that's what you WANT to believe.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er so because some of his feats are better than some in 2004? Thats not proof your just taking a small amount of feats and then deciding its better. Explain how it's not. If his HF is performing better than it was in the past on a consistent basis you tell me how that's not evidence?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im pretty sure some of his feats are equal to pre fatal attractions as well but you probably ignored that.

Okay yo let me know when Wolverine was able to heal from something like having his heart ripped out, or having a whole the size of a Hulk fist in his body, or recovering from a brain shot in 5 seconds before FA.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Considering that hes only had this HF for about a year and bit I don't know how you came to that conclusion. From feats within these last few months.

Jinzin you don't know about Wolverine, you probably only know of him because of your love for Hugh Jackman.

I'm more swaying towards Logan taking this one

where is the lord?!

What the hell...could somebody please explain whats going on in this scan because it looks like Wolverine getting hit by bullets and stating that his Hf is weaker.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist


Anyway, here's a picture that basically explains Wolvy's downgrades.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/Wolverine_61_0032.jpg

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What the hell...could somebody please explain whats going on in this scan because it looks like Wolverine getting hit by bullets and stating that his Hf is weaker. You don't read Wolverine? crackers

Originally posted by Badabing
You don't read Wolverine? crackers

Yeah....but could you answer the question. The latest issues I have are from 2007 though. The point is when Wolverine said that appraently he hadn't sustained any damage and therefore wouldn't know if his HF was reduced doesn't look like that to me.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What the hell...could somebody please explain whats going on in this scan because it looks like Wolverine getting hit by bullets and stating that his Hf is weaker.

At which point does it look like Wolveirne's being hit by bullets?

There's no sound, no blast, not even damage on Wolverine.

He nailed two guys before they could even get a shot off.

And when he makes that statement he definitely says it well before he even STARTS fighting anyone.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What the hell...could somebody please explain whats going on in this scan because it looks like Wolverine getting hit by bullets and stating that his Hf is weaker.

Originally posted by jinzin
At which point does it look like Wolveirne's being hit by bullets?

There's no sound, no blast, not even damage on Wolverine.

He nailed two guys before they could even get a shot off.

And when he makes that statement he definitely says it well before he even STARTS fighting anyone. What Jin said and Logan is bleeding from sword battle which happened a few pages earlier. The rest of the blood splatter is from him making short work of the gunmen. Nowhere is it stated or drawn that he's been shot.

on regular terms wolverine should beat punisher, but doesnt preperation give him the upperhand?

Originally posted by jinzin
At which point does it look like Wolveirne's being hit by bullets?

There's no sound, no blast, not even damage on Wolverine.

He nailed two guys before they could even get a shot off.

And when he makes that statement he definitely says it well before he even STARTS fighting anyone.

Meh I'll concede for now. Anyway Punisher has guns more powerful than conventional ones.

Anyway Punisher is fast enough to shoot Wolverine in the face with a shotgun. That should drop him because the buckshot will go through the holes in the eyesockets and into his brain.

Its PIS that this didn't happen in the Einnis issue. Wolverines tongue is not more durable than his eyes and therefore should have blown his eyes off.

lol. his eyes have adamantium.
don't forget that pile-a-garbage of a comic issue where wolverine frank fight in a mall. that was the worst writing i've ever seen. first frank goes to fight wolverine up-front with a 9mm uzi (). when that was bad enough, three grenades dropped at wolverine's feet only shredded his t-shirt ().

THAT was badwriting...and it wasn't even ennis. i'm guessing that gives us an excuse to say "PIS" whenever we want to as well

Originally posted by Sado22
lol. his eyes have adamantium.
don't forget that pile-a-garbage of a comic issue where wolverine frank fight in a mall. that was the worst writing i've ever seen. first frank goes to fight wolverine up-front with a 9mm uzi (). when that was bad enough, three grenades dropped at wolverine's feet only shredded his t-shirt ().

THAT was badwriting...and it wasn't even ennis. i'm guessing that gives us an excuse to say "PIS" whenever we want to as well
says the person who thinks DD, wolverine and spiderman being able to not senses punisher from 30 feet away or a rocket launcher is good writing...............

oh in a non prep match wolverine takes this match pritty much every dam time

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Anyway Punisher is fast enough to shoot Wolverine in the face with a shotgun. That should drop him because the buckshot will go through the holes in the eyesockets and into his brain.

Its PIS that this didn't happen in the Einnis issue. Wolverines tongue is not more durable than his eyes and therefore should have blown his eyes off.

So Wolverine being intact from a point blank shot PIS.

Wolverine having problems with Punisher's "luck" and a nutshot. Gold....




What a ****in joke.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Anyway Punisher is fast enough to shoot Wolverine in the face with a shotgun. That should drop him because the buckshot will go through the holes in the eyesockets and into his brain.
http://images.outdoorinteractive.net/mgen/284793_d.jpg
http://www.eyeinfo.info/images/orbitlayer7.jpg

Hmmm....

Originally posted by jinzin
So Wolverine being intact from a point blank shot PIS.

Wolverine having problems with Punisher's "luck" and a nutshot. Gold....




What a ****in joke.

You don't listen do you. Lets try again. Is Wolverine tongue more durable than his eyes?

Originally posted by Soljer
http://images.outdoorinteractive.net/mgen/284793_d.jpg
http://www.eyeinfo.info/images/orbitlayer7.jpg

Hmmm....

They look about the same sie and you dont have any measurements the buckshot could still get through the eyesocket.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You don't listen do you. Lets try again. Is Wolverine tongue more durable than his eyes?

No, YOU don't listen, if you're going to deem one part of writing PIS it's hypocritical to support the writing you like under the same writer, in the same arc as okay.

So we're playing under the stipulation that it's possible for a bullet to hit someone in the eye AND then in the brain?

Originally posted by jinzin
No, YOU don't listen, if you're going to deem one part of writing PIS it's hypocritical to support the writing you like under the same writer, in the same arc as okay.



Just because I think that the buckshot could have gone into his brain doesnt mean that I think the whole things is crap, thats just one thing I noticed.

Subjective...

Originally posted by jinzin
Subjective...

Er wanna elaborate?

read over that again...carefully. cuz i said:

Let's not forget that Wolverine was downed by a single clip from an M-16 during the beginning of Rucka's run. Logan's HF declines and raises in degree depending upon who's writing him. We don't need spurious comparisons to "Fatal Attractions" or come up with wild guesses as to how taxed his HF is or was at a given time. Like how Wolverine fought Shingen better the most recent time and how he gave cap a blood clot - we can assume all we want that he's remembered more of his training, but until we see real evidence for it, we might as well assume that Santa Clause possessed Wolverine during his recent fight with Cap. There's just as much evidence for it afterall.

Oh, and throwing a sword left-handed through an airplane at 200 plus feet away through the cockpit wall and hitting the pilot in the neck while it's moving is MUCH MORE impressive than kicking Cap in the leg and giving him a blood clot.

Wolverine most defintely dies. Hell Wolverine dies with 15 minutes prep.

Wolverine: Hey Frank lets fight!

Pun: Ok, sounds like fun!

*snikt*

Pun: Oh no's I lost

Wolverine: Yes...yes you did

Da end

dur

Pun gets 2 hours prep, have you seen what hes packin?

He's not packing nine lives and a can of whoop ass smurph

Originally posted by steverules_2
He's not packing nine lives and a can of whoop ass smurph

Tell ya what I'll do another one

Pun: Hey wolverine, wanna scruffle around a little?

Wolverine: Ok fine bub...but no grabbing my genitles this time and poking me with your gun

Pun: ...yeah, that was my gun, c'mon

*2 hours later*

Wolverine: Ok I'm here....Frank...hello? Oh no's a giant magnet!

*magnet is turned on and wolverine is stuck to it*

Pun: I win

Wolverine: ...God damn you frank...now kiss me you fool!

Da end dur

Nah. after the magnet thing he cuts him at the tendons and plays the "quit stabbing yourself" game with him

Wolverine dies for real.

Punisher wins.

Wolverine is a lame character for lame people.

Originally posted by grimify
Punisher wins.

Wolverine is a lame character for lame people.
I know it must be difficult for you, but you think you could go one day without making yourself look like a complete tool?

Originally posted by jinzin
I know it must be difficult for you, but you think you could go one day without making yourself look like a complete tool?

I try not to. Some times I slip up, though.

facepalm

Wolverine 8/10.

ermm

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Wolverine

Thread = facepalm

guys he has weapons that can turn Wolverine into a skeleton and hes hardly had any toruble hitting him with bullets...

Originally posted by -Pr-
ermm
agreed wolverine

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Logan stomps punisher every time pritty much in a non prep match.

however with two hour of prep, punisher could possiably take the majority even still it could be quite closes.

By the way you said this earlier on in the thread and this was before hi-tech weapons came into play.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Who says Punisher resorts to machine gun fire? Punisher is as straight up a marksman as anybody in the MU. Two hours to prep a factory? When he's actually held his own and gotten the better of Logan when he's been ambushed? And embarassed Logan when he was prepped, but not specifically against Wolverine? And when he's lost one against Wolverine? If you like on-panel evidence so much, 2 hours of prep against Wolverine is better then what Punisher has historically had against him, arguably, except in a Wolverine comic.

Punisher 6/10. Would be more if Punisher had access to Stu Clarke's tech.

Agreed. But I personally think Punny wins more like 8/10 here.

Punisher should take it

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Agreed. But I personally think Punny wins more like 8/10 here.

Punisher basically has mad hi-tech weapons now. Pym particles, skrull rifles, Hawkeyes arrows, Green Goblins bombs, Satans Claw and much more. Wolverine will basically get stomped with 2 hrs prep.

Punisher for the majority.

Wolverine

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Wolverine

So you changed your mind?

oh punisher has two hours prep, and Logan is confided to a ware house. Punisher given his current equipment and lengthy one sided prep.

Though Wolverine will take a few wins.

punisher probably 7 0r 8/10

Where could I get more information of Punisher's new tech?

Originally posted by Tshern
Where could I get more information of Punisher's new tech?

in his new comics it's a new run in the "Dark Reign" event

Due to acute lack of cash, I've been out of the comic book business for quite a while, so I haven't bought anything new, but Punisher has always been one of my favourites, so this truly intrigues me. Thanks for the information, I shall go inspect my local comic store for any traces of Dark Reign.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Pym particles Punisher wins.