Earths cosmics vs 4th Host

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tru-marvell
Okay instead of old man Odin (and the useless Uni-mind) taking on the Celestial 4th host some of earths cosmics has learned of the impending judgement and have banned together to defend the world...

Molecule man http://image.comicvine.com:8000/item/12000/11880/969-molecule-man_150.jpg

Korvac http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/6/62/Korvac_001.gif

Phoenix http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bf/Endsong1.png/398px-Endsong1.png

lets assume they battle out of phase with earth so it's not destroyed.

golem370
At his most powerful I would say Molecule Man would win if he was in fact close to Beyonders power range

tru-marvell
I think all that was dismissed by marvel somehow meaning that the "powers" allowed MM and Beyonder to go through all that stuff when in fact they were not the most powerful beings in the Omniverse but just a split cosmic cube...

King Kandy
Cosmic cubes are below Celestials, much less incomplete ones. The Celestials will win.

guy222
Agreed

Mr Master
Originally posted by King Kandy

Cosmic cubes are below Celestials, much less incomplete ones.

The Celestials will win.
Molecule Man and Beyonder became a complete Cube being. (Kosmos)

Molecule Man separated from that merger,
and is far above Cube beings.

Beyonder remained a Cube being,
but his power has either increased as well, or it's been retconned. (upgraded)

Molecule Man is above Celestials.


Also,

Korvac killed and absorbed Arishem and the host with him, easily.

Madvillain
Celestials get erased from existence.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Mr Master
Molecule Man and Beyonder became a complete Cube being. (Kosmos)

Molecule Man separated from that merger,
and is far above Cube beings.

Beyonder remained a Cube being,
but his power has either increased as well, or it's been retconned. (upgraded)

Molecule Man is above Celestials.


Also,

Korvac killed and absorbed Arishem and the host with him, easily.
Nah, Molecule Man isn't any stronger then a cube being... their power levels are equal but it's MM's human element that makes him capable of greater feats. On the other hand the Celestials are genuinely more powerful then MM or a cube being. As for Korvac erasing the host, wasn't that the What If? Korvac and not the canon one?

guy222
What If

Also Cap and Sharon Carter defeated Korvac, I believe

Celestials FTW

My opinion

Mr Master
Originally posted by King Kandy

Nah, Molecule Man isn't any stronger then a cube being...
their power levels are equal but it's MM's human element that makes him capable of greater feats.
MM is far more poweful than Cube beings,
do I have to pull out the scans of him stomping one?

His human element gives him unlimited potential, this is true,
but it's a potential that has already surpassed the power of Cube beings.

So in the end, he is in fact stronger.
Originally posted by King Kandy

On the other hand the Celestials are genuinely more powerful then MM
or a cube being.
Really?

What MM did during his battle with Beyonder is beyond a Celestial's power, save Scathan.

They warped reality within realities across the Omniverse.
Originally posted by King Kandy

As for Korvac erasing the host, wasn't that the What If?
Korvac and not the canon one?
I thought that's who was playing ball here?

If not,
meh, 616 Korvac was able to make subtle alterations across the 616 reality.

That means he was warping Time & Space.

Mr Master
Originally posted by guy222

Also Cap and Sharon Carter defeated Korvac, I believe
No way.

Korvac was the one that allowed himself to ddie,
because he thought his love had died.

Cap and the rest got owned lovely,
and weren't erased because that was never Korvac' intention.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Mr Master
MM is far more poweful than Cube beings,
do I have to pull out the scans of him stomping one?

His human element gives him unlimited potential, this is true,
but it's a potential that has already surpassed the power of Cube beings.

So in the end, he is in fact stronger.
No. Kubik said that their powers were equal, but MM would win because of his human element. Stated on panel, they have equal amounts of raw power. MM has greater potential though since his humanity is independent of his powers and thus he is better with those powers.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Really?

What MM did during his battle with Beyonder is beyond a Celestial's power, save Scathan.

They warped reality within realities across the Omniverse.
Well apparently it's not above celestials since the power of cube beings is below that of a celestial. This gives us a hint of just how powerful a Celestial is, it's actually quite a good feat for them.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I thought that's who was playing ball here?

If not,
meh, 616 Korvac was able to make subtle alterations across the 616 reality.

That means he was warping Time & Space.
We assume all characters are their 616 versions unless otherwise stated, right? As for his alterations, it's a damn good feat but it isn't beyond the Celestials at all.

As for Phoenix I think she once destroyed Arishem's hand and he just regenerated right? Or is my memory flawed?

guy222
X Factor #50

Arishem allowed the world to judge itself

Knowsbleed33
PR Owen takes this I believe.

guy222
Its prolly Post Retcon Reece

Air Legend
Molecule Man easily wins

Mr Master
Originally posted by King Kandy

No. Kubik said that their powers were equal,
but MM would win because of his human element. Stated on panel, they have equal amounts of raw power. MM has greater potential though since his humanity is independent of his powers and thus he is better with those powers.
No. Kubik said theoretically our powers are equal.

Only because they acquired said powers from the same source.

But obviously their powers were not equal,
cause Beyonder got stomped, and nearly erased.

On top of that,
Molecule Man made it clear:

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1803/owenpy8.th.jpg

"My powers have expanded FAR beyond those of nebbish Owen you once defeated,
... Reece spent months thrusting back his limitations,
achieving potentials FAR, FAR greater than yours ...
and with my persona ascendant, that of the true Molecule Man,
I NOW transact on power levels unimaginable even to you"

.............................................................................

Proven with the on panel stomp!

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/1475/owen2ji0.th.jpg

Originally posted by King Kandy

Well apparently it's not above celestials since the power of cube beings is below that of a celestial.
This gives us a hint of just how powerful a Celestial is,
it's actually quite a good feat for them.
Molecule Man >>> Celestials.

MM is no ordinary Cube being.
Originally posted by King Kandy

We assume all characters are their 616 versions unless otherwise stated, right? As for his alterations, it's a damn good feat but it isn't beyond the Celestials at all.
Unfortunately no Celestial has ever warped 616.

I also highly doubt, that Celestials can warp 616.

Korvac also had the power to conceal himself from Eternity,
even though he was withIN Eternity.

Could he defeat Eternity?

That's up for debate, not imo though.
Originally posted by King Kandy


As for Phoenix I think she once destroyed Arishem's hand and he just regenerated right? Or is my memory flawed?
Doesn't matter, Phoenix gets destroyed here fast.

Post-retcon Beyonder gave Rachel the full power of the Phoenix Force.

Celestials > Cube beings.

King Kandy
Well this seems to be muddled... just where do Owen's powers come from if not from a cube (which is below celestials)?

basilisk
Originally posted by Mr Master

Korvac killed and absorbed Arishem and the host with him, easily.


That was a What If. And only after Korvac had absorbed the combined power of Galactus's worldship (power "rivaling Galactus himself"wink, the In-Betweener, the Stranger, 3 Elders of the Universe, the High Evolutionary, the Shaper of Worlds, and the entire population of Earth.

Not that even that would have been enough to do that to the 4th host, if you ask me...

Utrigita
Molecule Man I believe it was, was defeated by Aron... Not sure which incarnation though...

basilisk
Originally posted by Utrigita
Molecule Man I believe it was, was defeated by Aron... Not sure which incarnation though...

That was towards the end of the first FF run I think just before Heroes Reborn.

Aron beat him relatively easily, but I don't know what MM was like at the time - I can't keep track of him.

Utrigita
I'm not sure...

Me neither, my point was that if that Molecule man was the same as the one that defeated Beyonder, got defeated by Aron a Watcher then the Celestials host problems should be minimum.

Mr Master
Originally posted by King Kandy

Well this seems to be muddled...
just where do Owen's powers come from if not from a cube
(which is below celestials)?
Celestials are above Cube beings, not Cosmic Containment Units.

Cube beings are a limitation of a CCU.

I have on panel evidence
where one CCU is being used to give every dead hero and villain of an alternate reality,
their own Universe.

The Cube was shattered into tiny fragments then place on a platter,
heroes/villains were lined up, being fed to them like candy,
the instant the fragment was eaten,
immediately said hero/villain flew away into godhood,
ultimately each creating their own universe where all their dreams can be realized.

CCU > Eternity/Infinity

Eternity/Infinity > Celestials (with the exception of Scathan)

.............................................................................

As for Molecule Man, with his unlimited CCU potential (unlike Cube beings)
he has definitely surpassed whatever the level of Cube beings is,
but ... has he reached the level of a full scale CCU?

That, I do not know.

But the LT said Owen Reece (limited version)
is one of the most powerful beings in all creation,
how much more powerful his unlimited self is (Molecule Man)
is anyone's guess.

We at-least know it's a level where he can affect reality on a trans-Multiversal scale.

Which is beyond Multiversal. (all creation in fact)

Mr Master
Originally posted by Utrigita

if that Molecule man was the same as the one that defeated Beyonder,

got defeated by Aron a Watcher
That's inconsequential good friend.

That took place before the true Molecule Man was exposed.
(as in, before he defeated the Beyonder and warped reality across the Omniverse)

On top of that, there were stipulations involved, scans coming soon. smile

Mr Master
Originally posted by basilisk

That was a What If. And only after Korvac had absorbed the combined power of Galactus's worldship (power "rivaling Galactus himself"wink, the In-Betweener, the Stranger, 3 Elders of the Universe, the High Evolutionary, the Shaper of Worlds, and the entire population of Earth.
Thanx for the heads up, but I knew all that.

And Galactus' world Ship contains more energy than Galactus himself.

But, he didn't need to absorb all that to kill the Host of Celestials,
it just so happens to be the Celestials were amongst the last beings/entities he absorbed.

I mean Humanity and the Avengers were left for last too with Arishem and company:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8821/67114863pn2.th.jpg

He never wanted to hurt the Celestials,
because he realized they weren't interested in him
unless he interfered with their affairs:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9953/k2id5.th.jpg

Originally posted by basilisk

Not that even that would have been enough to do that to the 4th host,
if you ask me ...
Cool, but if you ask Marvel, it is.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Mr Master
That's inconsequential good friend.

That took place before the true Molecule Man was exposed.
(as in, before he defeated the Beyonder and warped reality across the Omniverse)

On top of that, there were stipulations involved, scans coming soon. smile

As mentioned I stated "if" smile I couldn't quiet remember the date and the comic book.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Utrigita

As mentioned I stated "if" smile
I couldn't quiet remember the date and the comic book.
No problem true debater, I was only clearing things up.

Btw. Owen was still limited in that issue, that was the stipulation.

I've never understood how organic molecules makes Owen can boost Owen so much,
same thing is Secret Wars I,
he struggled a bit with a mountain,
as soon as he learned he was able to control organic molecules,
he becomes the most powerful being in the Multiverse save Beyonder. dontgetit

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9420/mm1lc4.th.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2975/mm2zg0.th.jpg

The defeat itself was ridiculous,
Aron created a globe around Owen, within the globe was a void,
supposedly Owen didn't have any molecules to work with
and then he fainted from lack of air in the globe/void.

On top of that comedy, Owen was being manipulated by the Puppet Master. laughing out loud

The Puppet Master, yes, that was not a typo ... again, ridiculous.

Tenebrous
^man the whole dialogue in that arc was comical, to say the least: "I'm no wuss either"

the man can defy the fundamental laws of physics, and his vocabulary is as sophisticated as a kindergartener.

guy222
Poor Owen laughing out loud

Hey T. Wats new

Mr Master
Originally posted by Tenebrous

^man the whole dialogue in that arc was comical, to say the least:

"I'm no wuss either"

the man can defy the fundamental laws of physics,
and his vocabulary is as sophisticated as a kindergartener.
thumb up laughing out loud

Owen couldn't beat Aron, but Doom can one shot him. dur

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3743/do1vx0.th.jpg


Doomsy does it again, you gotta respect the man:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6011/do2hc7.th.jpg



Meh,
I did like Sue Richards' hooker outfit:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9264/do3qm9.th.jpg

You go girl.

guy222
Sue FTW

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