Kakarot Respect Thread

Combat_Guru

Here Piccolo gathers Chi from Gohan and Kuririn, which encreases his strength enough to knock Freeza, who tens of times more powerful than he is into the middle of a near by lake, and stun him for a few seconds, this proves that Z Fighters can take strength from other organisms, just like Superman can take strength from the sun.

Since Goku can use the Ganki Dama, he can not just make a spirit bomb, but take the Chi from every living organism on Earth, or whereever he wants, and use it to multiply his strength and speed.

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-27.html?ch=Volume%2027&pg=db_v27_020.gif

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-27.html?ch=Volume%2027&pg=db_v27_022.gif

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-27.html?ch=Volume%2027&pg=db_v27_025.gif

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-27.html?ch=Volume%2027&pg=db_v27_027.gif

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-27.html?ch=Volume%2027&pg=db_v27_028.gif

Combat_Guru

Originally posted by Astner
This thread should've been better organized. First done in some text editor program and then cmd + c, cmd + v in here.

Where first speed feats were listed, followed by strength, the raw power of chi and so forth.
You should've also posted the images as thumbnails, and confirmed that all spam and alike would be reported (and hopefully deleted).

Good idea, I'll see what I can do.

chickenlover98

a respect thread isnt a battle thread guru, nor a place to say he's better than supes. lets try and keep those particular arguments out of this thread, only showing RESPECT to goku. this is sposed to be why he's badass, not a flame war

Endless Mike

He can't take ki unwillingly, he has to ask for it. Remember how Mr. Satan needed to convince the people of earth to give up their ki to make the Genki Dama? Krillin and Gohan also voluntarily lent their ki to Picollo.

DestinyGuy678

wow of all the people to make a respect thread for him whyd it have to be him

chickenlover98

Vvendeta

Originally posted by Endless Mike
He can't take ki unwillingly, he has to ask for it. Remember how Mr. Satan needed to convince the people of earth to give up their ki to make the Genki Dama? Krillin and Gohan also voluntarily lent their ki to Picollo.

You know we argue this before? remember? The fact that he is in another dimension? is one of those thinks Toriyama never explain. because he could take a little bit of energy from humans against Vegeta, without asking. But to take all it has to be ask, plop devise to make Mr Satan useful.

With respect to this thread
Goku has more feats in Db than in DBZ, when he is a child, Toriyama wanted to do DBZ about Gohan, but fans dont let him..

Now from the moment we know his real name "Kakaroto" or "Kakarrot"
is all DBZ.

Is mostly the Saiyan and Namek Saga that Goku have feats.

I will post one as a child
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3778/060513ks1.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Well resisting bullets and defeating a human army is maybe little compare to other mighty heroes, but for being the weakest version of Goku, is a pretty good feat.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7532/db08pg140sj3.th.gif

avoiding a ray attack
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8608/db08pg167bj3.th.gif

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5827/db08pg168va6.th.gif

Vvendeta

Defeating a martial artist Champion with 3 blows that look like one. Panpot vs Goku

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2227/110206ff7.th.gif http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1429/110207zn6.th.gif

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9751/110209fy9.th.gif http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3475/110210cl4.th.gif

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2190/110211cb3.th.gif http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1514/110212vl2.th.gif

Vvendeta

The ability to create false image of him by vibrating his body in diferent places to confuse the enemy, feat that prove high speed

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7507/04176hh5.th.jpg http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1072/04177or8.th.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2463/04178dz0.th.jpg http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2586/04179bo6.th.jpg http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7649/04180ja4.th.jpg

Vvendeta

I noticed 2 threads :/

Well goku feats can be shown animated too, compare with comics fellows smile

Mwiy286Wo8Q

Kento

Originally posted by Vvendeta
You know we argue this before? remember? The fact that he is in another dimension? is one of those thinks Toriyama never explain. because he could take a little bit of energy from humans against Vegeta, without asking. But to take all it has to be ask, plop devise to make Mr Satan useful.
He never took energy for the spirit bomb against Vegeta from humans. It was just from the the plants and animals.

Do you have the scan of Gokou as a kid surviving a missile?

Vvendeta

Originally posted by Kento
He never took energy for the spirit bomb against Vegeta from humans. It was just from the the plants and animals.

Do you have the scan of Gokou as a kid surviving a missile?

I have posted somewhere, i will look for it.

Goku said all living things, that include humans to me

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1568/chap235i14rh3.th.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8045/chap236i1qj5.th.jpg[/

Kento

If it was from Humans he would have gotten energy from krillen, and all the other fighters but they didn't loose any power at all.

Bardock42

Originally posted by Endless Mike
He can't take ki unwillingly, he has to ask for it. Remember how Mr. Satan needed to convince the people of earth to give up their ki to make the Genki Dama? Krillin and Gohan also voluntarily lent their ki to Picollo. I believe that was a) because they weren't in the same realm and b) because they gave more than just the little bit that a Genkidama usually takes from every living thing.

Vvendeta

Kai o sama said it, viz translation.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/9800/dbz105mp6tc1.gif
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/9800/dbz105mp6tc1.2a75fb191e.jpg

Kento

Nobody said he couldn't get it from humans. The point is that they have to give energy willingly.

Endless Mike

And especially the idea that he can just take energy from his opponent is ridiculous - if so, how come he never tried that?

Vvendeta

Well, the enemy could felt it, and atack him for that... makes sense

He tried 3 times, against Vegeta he hide to do it so, only a minimum fraction was used by krillin.

Against Freeza and Buu he also try taking care that they dont notice it.

I want to respond to one thing you said in the other thread(do not know why there is 2 threads), is just a silly theory

You say we dont know how much energy the final genkidama has
according to this:
http://migs.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/how-much-electricity-does-your-body-produce/

Normal Humans produce 300 watts average, and if we take the humans number in real world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

There are 6,704,845,726. humans

so doing the maths we have 2.0111453718 x10^12 watts, without counting the other sources of energy(Sun, earth, the Namek planet, etc)

What do you think?

nij-ayias

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
http://bp3.blogger.com/_bhmSrLZMMIw/RkToNGS5j4I/AAAAAAAAAck/WS_O1wMlbxY/s400/Superman-Goku+final.jpg

Since when did Superman's energy reach another dimension? Wizard Magazine is accurate.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
fanboy ravings can't change the fact that Superman would kill everyone in DBZ in a matter of minutes. haermm

Yeah right, Superman didn't beat Blackrock and Redemption in a matter of minutes. Blackrock and Redemption cant destroy a city. Anyway, since when did a COMIC OFFICIAL confirms that " superman >> goku " ?

Bardock42

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And especially the idea that he can just take energy from his opponent is ridiculous - if so, how come he never tried that?

He did, but just a very small part. He can't take all their energy...for them to be drained they have to send their energy, like the Earth people did in the last fight against Boo.

Galvaclaw

Nij-ayias don't turn this into another Superman versus Goku topic. This isn't the place to air your grudges against the people who have the temerity to think Goku isn't God all mighty.

Vvendeta

Returning to DB Goku kid feats:

Breaking an ax with his head.
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/9011/db010318sea5ct5.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Linking Park tune
nQzj5fBn6x0

Kento

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Well, the enemy could felt it, and atack him for that... makes sense

He tried 3 times, against Vegeta he hide to do it so, only a minimum fraction was used by krillin.

Against Freeza and Buu he also try taking care that they dont notice it.

I want to respond to one thing you said in the other thread(do not know why there is 2 threads), is just a silly theory

You say we dont know how much energy the final genkidama has
according to this:
http://migs.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/how-much-electricity-does-your-body-produce/

Normal Humans produce 300 watts average, and if we take the humans number in real world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

There are 6,704,845,726. humans

so doing the maths we have 2.0111453718 x10^12 watts, without counting the other sources of energy(Sun, earth, the Namek planet, etc)

What do you think? He wasn't really hiding it from Buu...everybody else was keeping him busy unlike against Freeza. If he could have taken energy from Buu I'm sure he would have.

And the DB world is a lot smaller than the real world so I doubt there is as many humans.

Vvendeta

Maybe, there is no claim how many humans are in DB, but if you are right, the lack of them is compensate with Nameks, afterworld, the kais and with the power of the Z, that alone is a huge amount of energy, Is specify like that in the manga.

Darth Raizen

Goku vs Vegeta
ZviuALn5DhU
S0eW2uNNv7I
hrStZH_EeZQ&

Blax_Hydralisk

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Linking Park

haermm

Vvendeta

At least i made you laugh smile

In Iceland they were popular, and the video show Goku feats

Back to the thread

Dodging bullets standing in the same place, a feat of speed

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9919/05106ha6dv7.th.gif

Is necessary to have sound speed to do this feat IMO.

Endless Mike

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Well, the enemy could felt it, and atack him for that... makes sense

No it doesn't.

"A could do B, but doesn't because B could stop him, despite the fact that there's no proof either one can do anything like that" is a completely specious argument.

He wasn't trying to take energy from Vegeta, he took energy from the earth.

Yes, taking energy from other things, and people who willingly gave it.

1. Ki is not the same as the body's physical energy. Ki is spiritual.

2. Watts are not a measure of energy, energy is measured in joules.

3. If all of the physical energy was taken from a human body, they would die, which didn't happen.

4. There's no possible way you could know the exact amount of humans in the world. It changes constantly due to births and deaths. So I'm pretty sure you just pulled that number out of you - know - where.

4. Even using your number, that translates to less than half a kiloton per second. The Hiroshima bomb was 15 kilotons. Your numbers are obviously off, unless you want to believe that the Genki Dama is less powerful than some of the weakest nukes ever made.

5. Even accepting all of your other assumptions, you yourself admit that there are unknown quantities, so we still don't know how much energy it had.

Considering he doesn't actively radiate energy, I don't see your point.
We already know the Kaios can sense things from other dimensions - North Kaio (King Kai) did it all the time. It's usable as a sensory feat for them, but completely useless as a power feat.

Redemption was pretty much invincible as long as his congregation believed in him. He shrugged off attacks that would kill most DBZ characters (such as being pulled into space and smashed back to the earth through re-entry). I'm not as familiar with Blackrock.

Anyway, what makes you think they can't destroy a city? Because they haven't done so? Using that type of logic, we can say that the only people in DBZ who can destroy a planet are Frieza, Cell, and Kid Buu.

Let's look at, say, Android 17. What actual feats does he have? Pretty much none. But you would obviously say he is strong because of the way he competed against characters who had feats. Same goes for Superman's enemies who give him trouble.

I don't think there is canon evidence to suggest this.

But the point is, we don't know how much energy.

Just saying "it's a lot" is meaningless, it's known as an incomplete comparison fallacy.

Kento

The DB world is smaller. Maybe not the planet size itself but there are a lot of large areas of nothing but desert with nobody living there, and only a few major cities and some tiny villages.

Endless Mike

The full extent of the urbanization and population was never shown.

There are a lot of barren areas on earth - 70% of the surface is covered by water, and there is Antarctica, the Sahara, the Gobi desert, the American southwest, rainforests, Austrailian outback, etc.

We really haven't seen such a great amount of DBZ earth's surface to make such a judgement, IMHO

chickenlover98

Originally posted by Vvendeta
At least i made you laugh smile

Kento

Yes but we have different continents, and some places are overpopulated and everything is bigger. The DB world is like one giant continent with a couple of small islands and only a few major cities that are almost on opposite sides of the map if I recall.

chickenlover98

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The full extent of the urbanization and population was never shown.

There are a lot of barren areas on earth - 70% of the surface is covered by water, and there is Antarctica, the Sahara, the Gobi desert, the American southwest, rainforests, Austrailian outback, etc.

We really haven't seen such a great amount of DBZ earth's surface to make such a judgement, IMHO i can agree with that but then again, the dbz world has dinosaurs too, so techinically he could pull more energy then if he was in ours.

Vvendeta

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No it doesn't.

"A could do B, but doesn't because B could stop him, despite the fact that there's no proof either one can do anything like that" is a completely specious argument.

He wasn't trying to take energy from Vegeta, he took energy from the earth.

Yes, taking energy from other things, and people who willingly gave it.

1. Ki is not the same as the body's physical energy. Ki is spiritual.

2. Watts are not a measure of energy, energy is measured in joules.

3. If all of the physical energy was taken from a human body, they would die, which didn't happen.

4. There's no possible way you could know the exact amount of humans in the world. It changes constantly due to births and deaths. So I'm pretty sure you just pulled that number out of you - know - where.

4. Even using your number, that translates to less than half a kiloton per second. The Hiroshima bomb was 15 kilotons. Your numbers are obviously off, unless you want to believe that the Genki Dama is less powerful than some of the weakest nukes ever made.

5. Even accepting all of your other assumptions, you yourself admit that there are unknown quantities, so we still don't know how much energy it had.

Considering he doesn't actively radiate energy, I don't see your point.
We already know the Kaios can sense things from other dimensions - North Kaio (King Kai) did it all the time. It's usable as a sensory feat for them, but completely useless as a power feat.

Redemption was pretty much invincible as long as his congregation believed in him. He shrugged off attacks that would kill most DBZ characters (such as being pulled into space and smashed back to the earth through re-entry). I'm not as familiar with Blackrock.

Anyway, what makes you think they can't destroy a city? Because they haven't done so? Using that type of logic, we can say that the only people in DBZ who can destroy a planet are Frieza, Cell, and Kid Buu.

Let's look at, say, Android 17. What actual feats does he have? Pretty much none. But you would obviously say he is strong because of the way he competed against characters who had feats. Same goes for Superman's enemies who give him trouble.

I don't think there is canon evidence to suggest this.

But the point is, we don't know how much energy.

Just saying "it's a lot" is meaningless, it's known as an incomplete comparison fallacy.

Here is a page that explain Joules=Watts x second
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/g_knott/elect63.htm
I made a theory, never try to said that it was like that, that is why i ask you what do you think, Science is not my strongest subject.

Well the calculator give me that number between the population of earth x 300 watts each, not comming from where you think smile

With respect to the Genkidama, i could say that is also another thing that have inconsistency in favor of a plop in the history, however that does not mean that it can take energy from humans, and all matter as said by Kai o sama.

Is true that we never know real quantity of energy from each DB attack, that is the strongest argument for a versus, however the number i give is insignificant of what a human race, animals, ocean, the sun, etc could produce, so even without knowing how much is it, i am pretty sure is over a hiroshima bomb, discussing fantasy is silly, but fun.

Vvendeta

Goku feat of humor :P
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8854/vol02ch1301fq5me8.th.jpg http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6250/vol02ch1302qy1nd9.th.jpg http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7954/vol02ch1303um2ba2.th.jpg

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8393/vol02ch1304ih0ov9.th.jpg http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3059/vol02ch1305ze9rz2.th.jpg http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3888/vol02ch1306hg9pb9.th.jpg
continue

Vvendeta

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4841/vol02ch1307qx2dq2.th.jpg http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9124/vol02ch1308pc1nb5.th.jpg http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/2499/vol02ch1310lg7mc3.th.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4937/vol02ch1311aj7jo7.th.jpg http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9639/vol02ch1312ug6ym1.th.jpg http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4480/vol02ch1313yt8op5.th.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1613/vol02ch1314lu0ae3.th.jpg

Blax_Hydralisk

Originally posted by Vvendeta
At least i made you laugh smile

In Iceland they were popular, and the video show Goku feats

What's funny is that it's not "linking Park. It's Linkin Park. No g at the end.

Vvendeta

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
What's funny is that it's not "linking Park. It's Linkin Park. No g at the end.

Oh laughing

It is posible to lick a park?

I Need to improve my english stick out tongue

Astner

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
What's funny is that it's not "linking Park. It's Linkin Park. No g at the end.
OMG, thz frikin hilarious!!!! -- Seriously dude ... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Vvendeta

Bending the Kamehame ha at will,
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/2820/1413on1lx3.th.gif http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/4355/1414qp0ho0.th.gif

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9758/1415tf2hw4.th.gif http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/5601/1416xd9pd1.th.gif

BradBalboa

Turles is a ncie character. I dont liek the funimation Dub version of the character all eh seems to tlak about is goku giving up, he shud have been focusing on gokus saiyan heratge, "your a discrase to all saiyans kakarot" !! more alont those lines !! But Turles is awsome,a nd its easy to see why people think hes related to gouk, the to look very alike ! I think in the "French" veison of the movie he is Gokus-Half Brother !!and i think theres another where he is gokus cousin!

Endless Mike

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Here is a page that explain Joules=Watts x second
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/g_knott/elect63.htm
I made a theory, never try to said that it was like that, that is why i ask you what do you think, Science is not my strongest subject.

Yes, I know the definition of joules and watts.

I already explained the problems with your idea.

Yes, it can take energy from humans, if they willingly allow it.

Well I would also agree, but it should be noted that the Genki Dama seems to have a special property to kill evil beings, so even if it wasn't that powerful in terms of physical destructiveness, it could still do much more damage to someone evil than would be suggested by its explosive effects. On the flip side, it doesn't work against people who aren't evil.

Yeah, and Tree of Might was a pretty good movie.

BradBalboa

the genki Dama is above 100million billion hiroshima bombs !!and im being deadly serious, Kign kai tells Goku to be careful when using it as he could very easly destoy the very planet hes protecting, but the genki dama isnt used to destroy planets, but evil godly beings !!

Darth Raizen

Goku and Vegeta vs Janemba
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3vl7oSjAds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIEUaZdYN58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6QyojBYBBY&feature=related

Darth Raizen

Goku vs Vegeta: Kamehameha and Galick Gun collide HD (Japanese)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDKCHZaPbg4

Darth Raizen

Goku and Vegeta vs Omega Shenron
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrvNBjBfatY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nNztqOxXNM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wjc4UeSApo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgmTyYRpQZo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_IS4S0shVM&feature=related

Vvendeta

Goku vs Yamcha
Battle of kung fu style
Wolf fang Fist vs Rock cissors paper

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8730/7113151690lb6.th.jpg http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/5513/7113151691ok3.th.jpg http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7462/7113151693ww8.th.jpg

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6937/7113151694nn8.th.jpghttp://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7207/7113151696rz5.th.jpg http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/6871/7113151697es3.th.jpg

Vvendeta

The training of Kame zenin

Goku is now began his training with the turtle master, expecting to learn more about martial arts.

During the training kid Goku have some feats of stamina, strength, etc, the biggest is moving a giant boulder.

1.http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/580/imgsz8.th.jpg2.-http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5281/img0001pw0.th.jpg3.-http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/6551/img0002io9.th.jpg

4.http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7877/img0003do5.th.jpg5.- http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/3004/img0004ky9.th.jpg6.- http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2109/img0005vk9.th.jpg

7.http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1619/img0006et1.th.jpg8.- http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7725/img0007dl2.th.jpg9.- http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7619/img0008zd1.th.jpg

Vvendeta

10. http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/327/img0009hf5.th.jpg11.- http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8/img0010ps3.th.jpg12.- http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2778/img0011es8.th.jpg

13.- http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/6690/img0012bu7.th.jpg14.- http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/4639/img0013eq4.th.jpg15.- http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/7752/img0014xf5.th.jpg

16.- http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/5677/img0015nq1.th.jpg17.- http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2875/img0016ux4.th.jpg

Vvendeta

EDLWjTqdHSY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDLWjTqdHSY

I dont like this song but it comes with the video

Vvendeta

The fruits of the training
Preliminary fights "tenkaichi Budokai"

Defeat his opponent with a finger touch
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/6748/img0017nw7.jpg

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/7070/img0018pu7.th.jpg

Vvendeta

8 finalist match
Goku vs Gilan

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3893/6974150686ph7.th.jpg http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/3566/6974150687lk6.th.jpg

Semifinal
Goku vs Nam
voIsfPF56JE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voIsfPF56JE

Vvendeta

Goku vs Jackie Chun

1.http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1072/6816149387iy7.th.jpg2. http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/661/6816149388fx0.th.jpg3. http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/1503/6816149389io8.th.jpg

Blast attack struggle
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/32/6816149398kz3.th.jpg http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/6026/6816149399zi8.th.jpg

Fighting The drunken Master technique
1.http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/416/6978150713em1.th.jpg2. http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4223/6978150714mv6.th.jpg3. http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/1530/6978150715to8.th.jpg4. http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5012/6978150716nj4.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Crazy Monkey Technique
1. http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/593/7122151759ci6.th.jpg2. http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8603/7122151760zc5.th.jpg3. http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7518/6978150719jq6.th.jpg

Resisting electricity attack
1. http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8896/6791149195xe2.th.jpg2. http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/2873/6791149196bq3.th.jpg3. http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9748/6791149198wc4.th.jpg

4. http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8201/6791149199hi6.th.jpg5. http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/1600/6791149202tb9.th.jpg6. http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8085/6791149205gt5.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Goku Ozarou
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/3671/6791149206ap4.th.jpghttp://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1910/7044151253kz5.th.jpg http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/8140/7044151254ra6.th.jpg11. http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/8979/7044151259yy4.th.jpg12. http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/552/7044151260ka6.th.jpg

Roshi Destroying the moon
14. http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1150/7044151261ds4.th.jpg15. http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1723/7044151263ej6.th.jpg16.http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/5466/7044151264py9.th.jpg17.http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3135/7214152368xl7.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Aftermath
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3530/7214152374is9.th.jpg http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/175/7214152375sz1.th.jpg http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5421/7214152377sk5.th.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1754/7214152378ue7.th.jpg http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/156/7214152379hq1.th.jpg

End of the first Tenkaichi
hmF9e3-8T60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmF9e3-8T60&feature=related

nij-ayias

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Nij-ayias don't turn this into another Superman versus Goku topic. This isn't the place to air your grudges against the people who have the temerity to think Goku isn't God all mighty.

I'm not the one who started this, I know Goku can't destroy universe and can't resist a universe buster. Most important of all, I know Goku is not the strongest but in this site dbz is underestimated to the point of 90% of the feats are hyperbole or he cant do it or he just bluffing and etc. Dragon Ball is underestimated in this site.

nij-ayias

Fisrt of all, I know Goku can't destroy a universe and I know Goku can't resist a universe buster. Most important of all, I know Goku is not the strongest.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

Considering he doesn't actively radiate energy, I don't see your point.
We already know the Kaios can sense things from other dimensions - North Kaio (King Kai) did it all the time. It's usable as a sensory feat for them, but completely useless as a power feat.

You lacked knowledge, is that what you call hardly a pretender?

They dont sense energy from its radiation, its from the presence of energy. They can sense a non-radiating energy, for example normal humans or any z-fighter who is not radiating his energy like yajirobee.

Its about SSJ3 Goku's energy reaching another dimension. It was stated that its enough to reach another dimension. Stated by Kibito.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Redemption was pretty much invincible as long as his congregation believed in him. He shrugged off attacks that would kill most DBZ characters (such as being pulled into space and smashed back to the earth through re-entry). I'm not as familiar with Blackrock.

That feat didn't even shake the whole planet.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Anyway, what makes you think they can't destroy a city? Because they haven't done so? Using that type of logic, we can say that the only people in DBZ who can destroy a planet are Frieza, Cell, and Kid Buu.

Redemption and blackrock can't destroy a city because there are no proofs or energy measurement to back it up

You can't apply that logic of yours in dragon ball z because in dragon ball z there are energy measuring device and they can also sense their enemies' energy as a proof. You can't just say that its nothing because Toriyama made it that way, not from you logic and opinion.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Let's look at, say, Android 17. What actual feats does he have? Pretty much none. But you would obviously say he is strong because of the way he competed against characters who had feats. Same goes for Superman's enemies who give him trouble.

They cant sense the androids energy so the only feat here is 17 single handedly defeated a super saiyajin without any effort. Again don't apply your logic of yours because this is dragon ball z.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
But the point is, we don't know how much energy.

Enough to reach another dimension.

Originally posted by Kento
The DB world is smaller. Maybe not the planet size itself but there are a lot of large areas of nothing but desert with nobody living there, and only a few major cities and some tiny villages.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The full extent of the urbanization and population was never shown.

There are a lot of barren areas on earth - 70% of the surface is covered by water, and there is Antarctica, the Sahara, the Gobi desert, the American southwest, rainforests, Austrailian outback, etc.

We really haven't seen such a great amount of DBZ earth's surface to make such a judgement, IMHO

In terms of dbz knowledge, is that what you call hardly a pretender?

Endless Mike

Originally posted by nij-ayias
You lacked knowledge, is that what you call hardly a pretender?

They dont sense energy from its radiation, its from the presence of energy. They can sense a non-radiating energy, for example normal humans or any z-fighter who is not radiating his energy like yajirobee.

You do know that I was using the term "radiate" not in terms of radiation as we normally define it, but in terms of "emitting energy", right?

In DBZ, every living thing has ki. That ki gives off a detectable signature. Some living beings and mechanical devices can detect this signature. This is a sensory ability.

And your point is.....? King Kai could already sense things in other dimensions back in the Saiya-jin saga. In fact that Kais and Kaioshins were supposed to monitor the universe by sensing it from their dimensions. Keep in mind that Goku could not sense Gotenks' and Buu's ki from the Room of Spirit and Time (a different dimension), they needed the Old Kaioshin to show them the fight.

What's your point? Most DBZ characters can't survive in space without oxygen to breathe, and get hurt from being knocked through a few hills.

They contended with Superman, who is far above that level. That's the proof.

The androids had no ki....

Special pleading fallacy.

Android 17 beats people with feats. That means he is capable of those feats too.

Redemption challenges someone with feats. That means he's weak and Superman's feats don't count?

The double standard here is sickening.

Be consistent.

Either android 17 can't even destroy a city, and that means the people he beat are weak, or android 17 is on their level, and that means Redemption is on or near Superman's level.

How is that quantifiable? We know the Kaios can sense things in other dimensions. King Kai did it back in the Saiyan saga. We know the simple radiating of ki can be sensed in other dimensions. It's useful as a sensory feat, not as a power feat.

In case you didn't pick up on it, I was arguing against Kento there. I see no reason to assume DB Earth is smaller than our earth..

Vvendeta

Originally posted by Endless Mike

What's your point? Most DBZ characters can't survive in space without oxygen to breathe, and get hurt from being knocked through a few hills.

I would agree about the oxygen, even with Gotenks going around earth, but i disagree about being knocked in few hills and get hurt, i think is understimation from your part, mostly because what hurt them is the punch of the enemy, perhaps if you are refering to early DBZ probably i would agree, i dont recall any of the mayor characters being hurt by being send into hills in the end of Z

for example in The fight Gohan vs Superbuu what is show is that Gohan is hurt by the punchs.

The power of punch also is show when gohan defeat the Cell juniors.

the top fights is against Buu, hard to destroy rubber that regenarate. the punchs change the shape of his body.

Basing in what the history is about, and that each saga is a continuation of the previous, is logic for me to think that if Freeza will show against SSJ 2 or 3, he will be pulverize like the Cell juniors, even the Kai o Shin say He could defeat Freeza with one blow.

And Freeza survive a planet explosion with his body cut in half and weakened.

Vvendeta

Goku vs Slug.

This movie does not fit in the canon historyline

Slug is ancient super Namek

Ycyh7b-lReE

Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycyh7b-lReE&feature=related
warning, Loud sound.

BradBalboa

Supreme Kai states that he and his fellow ( diseased superme kais) where each 1000X Friezas power !! Plus the Kais are Omniscient ( All Knowing) Suprme Kais seems wek because he is agasint someone like Majin Buu whodestroyed entire galaxys, supremeb kai cud crack a planet in 2 wit a single thoat !!

Endless Mike

Originally posted by Vvendeta
I would agree about the oxygen, even with Gotenks going around earth, but i disagree about being knocked in few hills and get hurt, i think is understimation from your part, mostly because what hurt them is the punch of the enemy, perhaps if you are refering to early DBZ probably i would agree, i dont recall any of the mayor characters being hurt by being send into hills in the end of Z

for example in The fight Gohan vs Superbuu what is show is that Gohan is hurt by the punchs.

The power of punch also is show when gohan defeat the Cell juniors.

Cell kicked Gohan through a small hill and Gohan was bleeding from it.

Well obviously Buu is a special case, since he can regenerate his wounds easily.

Surviving is different from being unharmed. Frieza would have died if his father hadn't found him.

That was only in the dub. In the manga he said they could kill Frieza with one blast.

Let me ask you again, have you actually read the Dragonball manga or just watched the dubbed anime?

....No they're not. If they were, they wouldn't have needed help to find Babibi, they wouldn't have been surprised at how strong the Saiya-jins were, they wouldn't have been uncertain about the outcome of all of those battles, Kaioshin would have known about Old Kaioshin being in the sword.... etc. That's an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Filler, again. You've already been corrected on this.

Assuming you mean "thought", I see absolutely no evidence to suggest this.

nij-ayias

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do know that I was using the term "radiate" not in terms of radiation as we normally define it, but in terms of "emitting energy", right?

Every living things are emitting energy like aura including Superman. Still it doesn't change the fact that Superman's energy or power was not enough to reach another dimension. Besides, Modern-Superman is weaker than Superman in OWAW storyline. Superman (in OWAW storyline) radiates his energy, did it reach another dimension? NO.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
In DBZ, every living thing has ki. That ki gives off a detectable signature. Some living beings and mechanical devices can detect this signature. This is a sensory ability.?

Superman is a living thing and the energy or aura from his body cannot reach another dimension.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And your point is.....? King Kai could already sense things in other dimensions back in the Saiya-jin saga. In fact that Kais and Kaioshins were supposed to monitor the universe by sensing it from their dimensions. Keep in mind that Goku could not sense Gotenks' and Buu's ki from the Room of Spirit and Time (a different dimension), they needed the Old Kaioshin to show them the fight.?

In fact, Kaioshin and Kibito were training Gohan to master the Z-sword, they're not monitoring the universe when SSJ3 Goku's power disturbed their training in the Kaiohshin Kai. Is that what you call "HARDLY A CONTENDER"?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
What's your point? Most DBZ characters can't survive in space without oxygen to breathe, and get hurt from being knocked through a few hills.

Since when it was stated that the lack of oxygen could kill a saiyan? Toriyama accepts the Bardock Story as a part of manga-continuity Gotenks flew outside the planet.
Normal humans can swim and hold their breath in water, does that mean that human can live or survive in water? Of course not.
Goku in his teenage years survived a dropped from a thousand miles. Its the impact of the attacks that hurt them, not the few hills.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

They contended with Superman, who is far above that level. That's the proof.

The androids had no ki....

Special pleading fallacy.

Android 17 beats people with feats. That means he is capable of those feats too.

Redemption challenges someone with feats. That means he's weak and Superman's feats don't count?

The double standard here is sickening.

Be consistent.

Either android 17 can't even destroy a city, and that means the people he beat are weak, or android 17 is on their level, and that means Redemption is on or near Superman's level.

You're underestimating Superman by saying that Redemption is on or near Superman's level. I know, you know it yourself that Superman is always holding back and that he rarely use his true power.
This statement was about Redemption and Dragon Ball, not Superman and Dragon Ball. Again, Redemption can't destroy a city and he's not holding back while Superman is always holding back. Superman is not a killer and he always holds back while Redemption is doing his best but still he can't destroy a city in a single wave of his hand.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

How is that quantifiable? We know the Kaios can sense things in other dimensions. King Kai did it back in the Saiyan saga. We know the simple radiating of ki can be sensed in other dimensions. It's useful as a sensory feat, not as a power feat.

What are you talking about? Is that hardly pretender? Kaioshin and Kibito were training Gohan to master the Z-sword, they're not monitoring the universe when SSJ3 Goku's power disturbed their training in the Kaiohshin Kai.

Vvendeta

What i remember is that Cell hold Gohan clothes, punch him many times in the face and use the technique called Kia to send gohan in this hill.

Vvendeta

Red Ribbon Saga
In the search for the DB 4 star, Goku confront the red ribbon army
General grey

1http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5060/6944150417li4.th.jpg2http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4836/6944150418vo7.th.jpg3http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4990/6944150419cx2.th.jpg4http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9514/6944150420mu3.th.jpg5http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8440/6968150636ys7.th.jpg6http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5104/6968150637ra8.th.jpg7http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/5918/6968150638kz7.th.jpg8http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6606/6968150639hl8.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Attacking muscle tower
Surviving a plane crash
1http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4290/6968150647tl6.th.jpg2http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/307/6968150648wr8.th.jpg

Deflecting Machine guns bullets with the power pole (over sound speed)
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8886/7097151602ma7.th.jpg

Defeating the soldiers
1http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/5561/6941150369qr0.th.jpg2http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4825/6941150370fs7.th.jpg3http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/5357/6941150371ws9.th.jpg4http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/3038/6941150372yj3.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Fighting Sgt Metallo, old android model (Arnold Swasnneger alike lol)

Hitting the robot with his head

1http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7530/6941150380iv5.th.jpg
2http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/7162/6827149500ee7.th.jpg3http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/390/6827149501pw6.th.jpg3http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4965/6827149502bn6.th.jpg4http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/5424/6827149503gb3.th.jpg

Rocket Attack
1http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4690/6827149504hi7.th.jpg2http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/6669/6827149505tn3.th.jpg3http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/1056/6827149506lp6.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Fighting General Blue

1http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/97/6998150915kq8.th.jpg2http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1633/6998150918et6.th.jpg2http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/6248/6998150919bh4.th.jpg3http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/6248/6998150919bh4.th.jpg4http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/139/6998150925dq5.th.jpg5http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3591/6998150926ul7.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Crossover Arale-Goku

1http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3791/7016151031yk1.th.jpg2http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/8614/7016151032ev9.th.jpg3http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/3640/7016151033ka6.th.jpg4http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/1994/7016151034jm5.th.jpg5http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/5852/7016151035mq5.th.jpg6http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/7608/7016151036vv7.th.jpg7http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7098/7016151037uy9.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Karin tower Saga

1http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/162/7185152173hw6.th.jpg2http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4429/7185152174sr7.th.jpg3http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/6981/7185152175fl7.th.jpg4http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8186/7185152176ik6.th.jpg5http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1820/7185152177ts6.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Karin Tower part 2
6http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7439/7185152178db3.th.jpg7http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/28/7185152179ea1.th.jpg8http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8634/7185152180mn3.th.jpg9http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6514/7185152181ze1.th.jpg10http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7429/7185152182ok8.th.jpg11http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7526/7185152183oe9.th.jpg12http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/1729/7185152184op4.th.jpg13http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/3305/7185152185vk5.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Tao Pai Pai
The world greatest assassin.
Sorry not english
original Japanese

4kjsns2Rgb8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kjsns2Rgb8

FFWfeKPfRZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFWfeKPfRZI

714gdziKj_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=714gdziKj_0

carver9

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do know that I was using the term "radiate" not in terms of radiation as we normally define it, but in terms of "emitting energy", right?

In DBZ, every living thing has ki. That ki gives off a detectable signature. Some living beings and mechanical devices can detect this signature. This is a sensory ability.

And your point is.....? King Kai could already sense things in other dimensions back in the Saiya-jin saga. In fact that Kais and Kaioshins were supposed to monitor the universe by sensing it from their dimensions. Keep in mind that Goku could not sense Gotenks' and Buu's ki from the Room of Spirit and Time (a different dimension), they needed the Old Kaioshin to show them the fight.

What's your point? Most DBZ characters can't survive in space without oxygen to breathe, and get hurt from being knocked through a few hills.

They contended with Superman, who is far above that level. That's the proof.

The androids had no ki....

Special pleading fallacy.

Android 17 beats people with feats. That means he is capable of those feats too.

Redemption challenges someone with feats. That means he's weak and Superman's feats don't count?

The double standard here is sickening.

Be consistent.

Either android 17 can't even destroy a city, and that means the people he beat are weak, or android 17 is on their level, and that means Redemption is on or near Superman's level.

How is that quantifiable? We know the Kaios can sense things in other dimensions. King Kai did it back in the Saiyan saga. We know the simple radiating of ki can be sensed in other dimensions. It's useful as a sensory feat, not as a power feat.

In case you didn't pick up on it, I was arguing against Kento there. I see no reason to assume DB Earth is smaller than our earth..

get out of a dbz respect posting superman crap. Realize this, goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Superman, and thats being nice. When superman stop getting one shotted by konvict, despero, and titus then maybe he would be close to there level. Superman on a daily basis have trouble with mere bricks, how in the hell is he going to fight someone he cant see.

BradBalboa

Cel can survive in space, as can Buu, saiyans are trickey when it comes to breathing in space, as frieza states he destroyed the planet namek so that goku wouldnt have any more air to breathe, however bardock is in space when he confronts frieza, vegeta and nappa are in space when vegeta destroys the planet areila on the way to earth, nd gohan piccolo and krillin fight dr wheelo in space !

Vvendeta

Goku vs Tao Pai Pai fight 1

Goku is defeated
1
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/334/imgwy4.jpg
2
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5864/img0001br2.jpg
3
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1159/img0002ri0.jpg

Vvendeta

Master Karin and the sacred water

1
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/9898/img0003di8.jpg
2
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5866/img0004kf1.jpg
3
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3738/img0005nn2.jpg
4
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/2621/img0006ta3.jpg

carver9

Youre doing a good job with this respect thread Vvendeta. Got a question for you, do you have the manga fight between goku and tien. Im referring to the last tournament fight before he fought junior.

Vvendeta

Thank you, i dedicate this to the first poster, and i am focusing more in Goku childhood, because mostly is a whole lineal history, a diference with comics who has diferent writers, Goku have a Journey from the beggining to the end.

About your petition, we are close to the second tournament, and i would do it litlle by little, it takes time.

Thanks again.

Vvendeta

Tao Pai Pai against Goku final fight
1http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/6413/imgxi3.th.jpg2http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2143/img0001bv5.th.jpg3http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/5360/img0002vd0.th.jpg4http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7056/img0003uj3.th.jpg5http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7460/img0004wc5.th.jpg

Resisting the dodon pa attack
1http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/6317/img0005sc4.th.jpg2http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9039/img0006pc3.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Tao dominate the fight

1http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9222/img0008pc4.th.jpg2http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6682/img0009of3.th.jpg3http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7683/img0010zx6.th.jpg

End of the fight

1http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/703/img0011yr0.th.jpg2http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/7701/img0012pk9.th.jpg3http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3098/img0013xh5.th.jpg4http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/9643/img0014ik0.th.jpg

DestinyGuy678

All of this is Non-canon, but is still sick big grin

From Cross Epoch

Goku Meets Luffy:
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000111/00000000/11.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000111/00000000/12.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000111/00000000/13.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000111/00000000/14.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000111/00000000/15.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000111/00000000/16.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000111/00000000/17.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000111/00000000/18.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000111/00000000/19-20.jpg

(the rest of it is here http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Epoch/0/01-02/)

Another Dragonball z/One piece crossover
MHHFyzbHawE

Dragonball z video game openings
hcFGIZ_jbIM

oSpp-yvYKGA

YVoQSqE9bqI

riyRFrt9HIE

Dragonball AF manga
http://blog.livedoor.jp/toyble/

Vvendeta

Cool staff, love the last tenkaichi budokai, allways playing with my brother. big grin

Ridley_Prime

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Cool staff, love the last tenkaichi budokai
Heh. Same here. King Cold is awesome in it, among other things.

nij-ayias

Vvendeta I appreciate your posts of original dragon ball manga but most of your posts are about Goku when he's still developing his power.

Would you mind posting the scan where SSJ3 Goku's power disturbed Gohan's training in Kaiohshin Kai?

BradBalboa

I like that map of the DBZverrse but oen thing i want to know, what is Maikai ?? its at the bottom, by the looks of it outisde the mainstream universe, like the supreme kais planet, whih is surrounded by suns ?? i thought t was moons, its moons in the anime is it suns in the manga ?

Vvendeta

That map is mostly the afterlife universe, and the kai o shin world is a dimension that orbit around the afterlife universe, including heaven and hell,(maikai means orbit) below is the mortal universe

I rather better dont talk about other characters, and i have show this to them in the superman vs Goku long ago.

BradBalboa

thank you nij-ayias ! big grin

Plus when Goku went Super Saiyan 3 in othewrld, he didnt just shake t eplanet like ge ddi agaisnt buu, The entire afterlife trembeled !!
Cell made the earth shake when he attained his perfect form !! and his power could b felt all the way on the Planet Namek, which is on the other side of the galaxy !!

Endless Mike

No it didn't. They could just feel his power from the Kaioshin planet. Being sensed by other people far away isn't a quantifiable feat.

Makai is Hell, aka the underworld, aka HFIL in the American dub.

jltruth

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Thank you, i dedicate this to the first poster, and i am focusing more in Goku childhood, because mostly is a whole lineal history, a diference with comics who has diferent writers, Goku have a Journey from the beggining to the end.

About your petition, we are close to the second tournament, and i would do it litlle by little, it takes time.

Thanks again.

Cant wait smile

nij-ayias

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No it didn't. They could just feel his power from the Kaioshin planet. Being sensed by other people far away isn't a quantifiable feat.

I know how much you hate Dragon Ball but the scans proved it and its undeniable. Gohan was training in the kaiohshin kai and Kibito WAS NOT MONITORING THE MORTAL REALM, most importantly it was stated that HE CAN'T BELIEVE THEY CAN FEEL HIS ENERGY FROM KAIOHSHIN KAI. In otherwords, its an INVOLUNTARY SENSING OF KI when they felt SSJ3 Goku's energy in kaiohshin kai.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Makai is Hell, aka the underworld, aka HFIL in the American dub.

You're only basing it on dub and not the manga, that's bad. You're just playing your role as hardly pretender in dragon ball manga.

Endless Mike

Originally posted by nij-ayias
I know how much you hate Dragon Ball but the scans proved it and its undeniable. Gohan was training in the kaiohshin kai and Kibito WAS NOT MONITORING THE MORTAL REALM, most importantly it was stated that HE CAN'T BELIEVE THEY CAN FEEL HIS ENERGY FROM KAIOHSHIN KAI. In otherwords, its an INVOLUNTARY SENSING OF KI when they felt SSJ3 Goku's energy in kaiohshin kai.

And what is your point? How is that quantifiable?

Attach a number to that. You can't.

Furthermore, cut it out with the stupid appeal to motive fallacies. I don't hate Dragonball. If I did, I wouldn't even post on threads about it. I hate fanboys who overrate it ridiculously.

Someone sensing you in another dimension is not a feat for you. We already know ki can travel between dimensions, we knew that at least as early as the Saiyan saga. It can't actually influence things across dimensions, it's not as if Goku could shoot a ki blast from earth and hit someone on the Kaioshin planet.

Learn to read. I only mentioned the dub name for the benefit of people who hadn't seen anything else. I pointed out that it was Hell in the translated manga, and Makai in the original Japanese.

I easily know more about Dragonball than you.

Endless Mike

Yes, shaking the earth from powering up is a feat. I'm not sure how you would calculate it, but I would guess it would be a multiple-teraton level feat, being conservative.

Vvendeta

I was reading that the the K-T event (Cretaceous-Tertiary Mass Extinction event). have a impact equivalent to pass 100 teratons, and that enough did not shake the planet in his total (although it create a huge impact in the atmosphere, and a big crater, and burn and cover the planet, creating the ice age)

there is also the factor that Goku is in middle earth creating the planet movement and not underground, wich indicated that the energy output, without any impact or phisical contact, to shake the planet from a period of time, will have a from 100 teratons to a petaton force energy, minimum.

DestinyGuy678

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No it didn't. They could just feel his power from the Kaioshin planet. Being sensed by other people far away isn't a quantifiable feat.

Makai is Hell, aka the underworld, aka HFIL in the American dub. pelase dont argue in the respect thread, make another thread, but seriously you guys arguing is ruining it sad

Vvendeta

The doom of red ribbon army
Japanese
Full attack
1http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/476/img0003hu6.th.jpg2http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9146/imgdn5.th.jpg
yer8AynsvRw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yer8AynsvRw&feature=related
enter the RR base
1http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7805/imgwl6.th.jpg
wGvd0vQvuD0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGvd0vQvuD0&feature=related
Resisting a bazooka
2http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4368/img0001nn6.th.jpg3http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/346/img0002dd1.th.jpg
0ZYOTTPBmmI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZYOTTPBmmI&feature=related
change in RR charge
1http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/714/img0003lj5.th.jpg2http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/1451/img0004de2.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Commander Black vs Son Goku
1http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3216/img0005ok7.th.jpg2http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6347/imgev7.th.jpg
MwhYSqqA82M
Climax

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4272/img0002fe9.th.jpg
2http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4279/img0003qz0.th.jpg3http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7071/img0004ez8.th.jpg

jD5iJ-eRlLI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD5iJ-eRlLI&feature=related
Goku defeated the RR Army
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7229/imgjh2.jpg

Continue..
The all seeing Crone Uranai Baba
And his warriors from the dead.

Endless Mike

Originally posted by Vvendeta
I was reading that the the K-T event (Cretaceous-Tertiary Mass Extinction event). have a impact equivalent to pass 100 teratons, and that enough did not shake the planet in his total (although it create a huge impact in the atmosphere, and a big crater, and burn and cover the planet, creating the ice age)

there is also the factor that Goku is in middle earth creating the planet movement and not underground, wich indicated that the energy output, without any impact or phisical contact, to shake the planet from a period of time, will have a from 100 teratons to a petaton force energy, minimum.

Middle-Earth? Goku was in Lord of the Rings? laughing

Anyway a distributed energy force is different from a direct impact. It's likely that the K-T impact did shake the earth somewhat, you would probably be able to feel the shockwaves from standing on the far side of the planet once they reached you. In fact I read a theory once that said the Himalayan mountians were formed from the shockwaves of the K-T asteroid converging on the opposite side of the earth.

Anyway, it depends on whether just the tectonic plates were shaken or the planet was shaken down to the core, which we really don't know.

There was a lot of arguing in the Storm respect thread, because people were misrepresenting her feats. If necessary, the mods can just move/delete all of the non-relevant posts.

Vvendeta

Hehe! down in the center of the earth i mean, lol

is asume that the kt reaction eventually will be felt at least like a little earthquake shockwave, and you are right, a reaction of this event create volcan eruptions on the whole planet, but that is because the impact of the meteor damage the tectonic plaque down IN the center of the Earth.

I was also reading the creation of the moon was a bigger event, and that did not break our planet, i imaging that to crack the earth and create the satelite would have a petaton force, according to some readings i made.
Asuming that Goku is just generating energy, and that Toriyama was thinking in phisics, his feat of Shaking the planet is in the range of the Kt event or the creation of the moon event, in my opinion.

Theory of a meteor impact
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdSTE4jWJmk&feature=related

animation of Kt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbXDRJtL3d8&feature=related

Vvendeta

The aftermath
qqpqA0DHABc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqpqA0DHABc&feature=related
Goku has 6 DB, with the RR defeated only one baall is needed, but the radar cant detect the last ball.
The others could not believe Goku alone defeated the biggest terrorist army.
yNRuoo0nwrE
To find the last DB, Roshi remember the all seing crone, who can find anything, but the price to pay is 10 miilions zeni(DB money) or to fight her 5 warriors

DestinyGuy678

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Middle-Earth? Goku was in Lord of the Rings? laughing

Vvendeta

Continue..
The all seeing Crone Uranai Baba
And his warriors from the dead.

1http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1923/img0001su1.th.jpg2http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1862/img0002tu2.th.jpg

Krillin and Yamcha with the help of the others advance as a team, Krillin was eliminated by the kick boxer vampire, but Yamcha get to pass and beat the invisible man, the second champion, the third champion is the living mummy, faster and stronger, Yamcha give a good fight, but finally is defeated, only Goku remain and 3 champions of the dead to go.
1http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3645/img0003hc4.th.jpg2http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/139/img0004br8.th.jpg
The confidence of Son Goku after his training with Karin and RR army fight
1http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5161/img0005ep4.th.jpg2http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2255/img0006io6.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Goku pummelled
1http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6449/img0007it1.th.jpg2http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6380/img0008za8.th.jpg
It was easier than Goku tough.
1http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/584/img0009vm5.th.jpg2http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3672/img0010ad7.th.jpg
Next Goku vs the Devil
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6223/img0011kb0.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Goku surprise everyone
1http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1382/img0012xp4.th.jpg2 http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9185/img0013dt4.th.jpg3http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8314/img0014ms6.th.jpg

The devil beam
1http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8827/img0015rh5.th.jpg2http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7650/img0016eg7.th.jpg
A heart like a baby or an animal
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9946/img0017hh5.th.jpg
End of battle
1http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3222/img0018hr0.th.jpg2http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3726/imgeg4.th.jpg

Endless Mike

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Hehe! down in the center of the earth i mean, lol

is asume that the kt reaction eventually will be felt at least like a little earthquake shockwave, and you are right, a reaction of this event create volcan eruptions on the whole planet, but that is because the impact of the meteor damage the tectonic plaque down IN the center of the Earth.

I was also reading the creation of the moon was a bigger event, and that did not break our planet, i imaging that to crack the earth and create the satelite would have a petaton force, according to some readings i made.
Asuming that Goku is just generating energy, and that Toriyama was thinking in phisics, his feat of Shaking the planet is in the range of the Kt event or the creation of the moon event, in my opinion.

Theory of a meteor impact

Well the KT event wiped out a good percentage of all life on earth, which didn't happen when Goku powered up. Although I suppose you could argue that the extinctions were mainly due to all of the dust thrown into the atmosphere from the impact that blocked out the sun. As for the moon, it obviously wasn't that strong since huge chunks of the earth weren't flying off of it.

I suppose you might be able to calculate it by getting statistics on an earthquake and the area it covered, plus the energy it released, then multiplying it by enough times to equal the total surface area of the earth. However I don't know where to find such information.

Right, but he was the one who engaged me in debate. I suppose I could just ask him to continue this in PMs (Vvendetta if you read this and want to reply PM me your reply).

Vvendeta

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well the KT event wiped out a good percentage of all life on earth, which didn't happen when Goku powered up. Although I suppose you could argue that the extinctions were mainly due to all of the dust thrown into the atmosphere from the impact that blocked out the sun. As for the moon, it obviously wasn't that strong since huge chunks of the earth weren't flying off of it.
I think is very clear that one event is the meteor impact and another is the reaction of that impact and the consequences, as the videos show, what i asume is that the KT event did not shake the planet all at once, if it did, it was more as a chain reaction after the impact, i hope i am clear.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

I suppose you might be able to calculate it by getting statistics on an earthquake and the area it covered, plus the energy it released, then multiplying it by enough times to equal the total surface area of the earth. However I don't know where to find such information..
I give you the reason that we need more data to give an exact number, but i think that a diference with another feats in DBZ, this one it can have a calculation or a theory. an idea of the minimum energy Goku SSJ3 have to expele to shake the planet.

A teraton force is a earthquake with 10 degrees in the richter scale, in the epicenter will it be the maximum release of energy, a more distance, the seismic waves will travel, the less it will be feel in the Richter scale. the Kt impact is being "calculated" in 100 + teratons in the place of impact, a more far from this event, the less is felt by the impact.(but what the reaction or the impact create is another subject)
In the case of Goku feat, is him like the epicenter of the energy he is creating the earth to move at the same time, so i can asume Goku has a greater energy than the Kt event, but as you say more data is needed to give a exact qauntity.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Right, but he was the one who engaged me in debate. I suppose I could just ask him to continue this in PMs (Vvendetta if you read this and want to reply PM me your reply).

I think if people want to participate in this debate is ok, if is bothering somebody, then they could just ignore it. and look for the feats.

Vvendeta

Goku vs the 5th Champion
1http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6015/img0002jh5.th.jpg2http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6223/img0003vf4.th.jpg3http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4981/img0004et7.th.jpg4http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9344/img0005is2.th.jpg

Vvendeta

Even battle
1http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3161/img0006nx9.th.jpg2http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4306/img0007jg5.th.jpg3http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9482/img0008sw9.th.jpg
4http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6485/img0009gu1.th.jpg5http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4455/img0010df6.th.jpg6http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4811/img0011nq6.th.jpg7http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1162/img0012hc1.th.jpg
3UG_4ZrC00I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UG_4ZrC00I&feature=related

Vvendeta

Gokus weakness
1http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9892/img0013nh2.th.jpg2http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1453/img0014mv9.th.jpg3http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1145/img0015pf3.th.jpg

Warrior gives up
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/917/img0016yw5.th.jpg
His true identity
htnCYqOZ8Wo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htnCYqOZ8Wo&feature=related
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4597/img0017xk3.jpg

nij-ayias

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And what is your point? How is that quantifiable?

Attach a number to that. You can't.

Not all feats in fiction are quantifiable, this is fictional comics and not real world physics.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Someone sensing you in another dimension is not a feat for you. We already know ki can travel between dimensions, we knew that at least as early as the Saiyan saga. It can't actually influence things across dimensions, it's not as if Goku could shoot a ki blast from earth and hit someone on the Kaioshin planet.

Are you trying to say that Kibito's statement was about something normal is happening?

"I...I CANT BELIEVE WE CAN FEEL IT FROM HERE"

Is that normal for you?

Prove me in Saiyan Arc that ki can travel between dimensions. At least show me the same feats I'm talking about from Saiyan Arc.

In Saiyan Arc, the only character that can track other beings in another dimension is Kaioh and that is not Ki sensing, its his ability to track anyone.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I easily know more about Dragonball than you.

Like what? Like gaining dragon ball information from fantranslation manga and proving Akira Toriyama's statements were wrong.

Endless Mike

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Not all feats in fiction are quantifiable, this is fictional comics and not real world physics.

So then how do you justify using it as a feat of power and claiming it makes him superior to any other character?

So he was surprised. And...? What does that prove? Nothing. He's just saying "Wow, he's stronger than I thought he was!" That's completely meaningless without any frame of reference to compare it to.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/449/kaiosaiyansro1.jpg

King Kai's planet is in another dimension. He senses Vegeta and Nappa.

What are you talking about? Of course it's ki sensing. Since when does he have the ability to "track anyone"? He didn't know about the androids (because they had no ki). Stop making things up and ignoring the evidence.

Kibito is a higher rank Kaio than King Kai anyway, so naturally he would have even better abilities.

Like actually using canon evidence to back up my statements and not making shit up out of thin air.

DestinyGuy678

please take this elsewhere, make a topic or something sad

Vvendeta

Goku vs Cooler
Scenario: What if Genkidama kill Freeza(I think, give me other sugestion)
does not fit the canon history line
4XvfUw8k5OE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XvfUw8k5OE

epaMaSW1kJ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epaMaSW1kJ4&feature=related

nij-ayias

Originally posted by Endless Mike
So then how do you justify using it as a feat of power and claiming it makes him superior to any other character?

Are you telling me that the presence of an exploding planet, solar system and galaxy can reach another universe?

I know you know how large the universe is, but I'm not trying to prove that Goku can destroy a galaxy or something. What I'm trying to say is that the presence of galaxy buster can't reach another universe while SSJ3 Goku's energy can.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
So he was surprised. And...? What does that prove? Nothing. He's just saying "Wow, he's stronger than I thought he was!" That's completely meaningless without any frame of reference to compare it to.

It's not just a surprise. Did you even read what Kibito's statement was?

Learn the difference between "I CAN'T BELIEVE WE CAN FEEL IT FROM HERE" and "Wow, he's stronger than I thought he was!".

"I CAN'T BELIEVE WE CAN FEEL IT FROM HERE" =/= "Wow, he's stronger than I thought he was!"

Kibito was talking about the energy they felt and the place where he can't believe they felt SSJ3 Goku's energy. It's different from your statement.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/449/kaiosaiyansro1.jpg

King Kai's planet is in another dimension. He senses Vegeta and Nappa.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
What are you talking about? Of course it's ki sensing. Since when does he have the ability to "track anyone"? He didn't know about the androids (because they had no ki). Stop making things up and ignoring the evidence.

http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/214/dragon_ball/chapter.15982/page.2/

You can fool the others but not me. From Kaioh's planet, Goku can't sense Vegeta/Nappa's energy in the mortal universe. Then, Kaioh's statement about tracking Vegeta/Nappa:

"LET'S SEE.. MAYBE I CAN LEARN WHEN THEY'RE DUE ON EARTH.."

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/7/15/vynjira/f_DBZ087m_28f61aa.jpg

"LET'S SEE.. MAYBE I CAN LEARN WHEN THEY'RE DUE ON EARTH.."

Is that what you're talking about energy being sensed in another universe?

To learn they're due on earth is NOT KI SENSING, its Kaioh's ability to track creatures. As a proof, Goku didn't sense Vegeta's energy in the mortal universe.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Kibito is a higher rank Kaio than King Kai anyway, so naturally he would have even better abilities.

Higher rank doesn't mean he would have better abilities.

Kibito has a higher rank than Kaioh, are you telling me that Kibito can telepathically contact anyone in another universe?

Kaiohshin has a higher rank than Kibito, are you telling me that Kaiohshin can teleport in another universe?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Like actually using canon evidence to back up my statements and not making shit up out of thin air.

Look who's talking.

DestinyGuy678

spam_laser

Endless Mike

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Are you telling me that the presence of an exploding planet, solar system and galaxy can reach another universe?

What? This is a complete non-sequitur. Sensing something from another dimension does not give any facts on how powerful it is. Many characters in fiction have such heightened senses that they can detect things like single atoms from other universes.

And your point is....?

An exploding galaxy can't type on the internet either, so I guess that makes us more powerful than exploding galaxies.

It's a completely irrelevant comparison, since ki in DBZ is known to travel to other dimensions, while normal energy is not.

Being sensed by someone else is not a feat of power.

Let's try another comparison: In an episode of Star Trek: Voyager, they used a weapon known as a "Tri-Cobalt Device" to destroy a space station. It was stated that said device was powerful enough to tear a rift into subspace (another dimension). Now an exploding planet/star/galaxy/etc. can't do that. Does that make the Tri-Cobalt device more powerful? Of course not, it's just a special property it has. It took 2 of them to blow up the space station after all, and it wasn't very big or durable.

Really? What is the difference then?

Kibito did not think Goku's energy could be sensed from that dimension. He sensed it anyway. So that means Goku was stronger than he thought he was. It doesn't say anything about how strong he actually is.

Because King Kai's ki sensing abilities were superior to Goku's at that time. How is this difficult to understand? It certainly makes more sense than making up a completely non-canon power for King Kai which is completely unrelated to sensing ki. Occam's Razor, "do not multiply entities unnecessarily". King Kai used his ki sensing powers to detect Nappa and Vegeta en route to earth. Show me where it says it was a completely different power.

Also, stop posting those huge images, it's annoying.

No, that's King Kai's specialty, as he stated himself. I'm talking about generic ki sensing.

Yes he can. In fact this ability was a major plot point, it's how he saved Gohan and how he went to New Namek to use Porunga to help defeat Kid Buu.

Name one time I have simply made something up, like saying King Kai has a power to track people from across dimensions that has absolutely nothing to do with ki.

DestinyGuy678

argue here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=309912&pagenumber=208#post10742602

nij-ayias

Originally posted by Endless Mike
What? This is a complete non-sequitur. Sensing something from another dimension does not give any facts on how powerful it is. Many characters in fiction have such heightened senses that they can detect things like single atoms from other universes.

Like I said, Gohan, Kibito and Kaiohshin didn't locate SSJ3 Goku's energy, its the energy that locates them. Gohan was training at that time, they're not monitoring the mortal universe, SSj3 Goku made himself felt in another dimension. Most important of all, they wouldn't feel Goku if his energy was not enough to reach another dimension. Goku explained Buu about his transfoirmation,

From Kaiohshin realm, did Kibito feel super saiyan level 1 in mortal universe? Super Saiyan Level 2 in mortal universe?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And your point is....?

An exploding galaxy can't type on the internet either, so I guess that makes us more powerful than exploding galaxies.

It's a completely irrelevant comparison, since ki in DBZ is known to travel to other dimensions, while normal energy is not.

Its not known, it was not stated.

Being sensed by someone else is not a feat of power.

Let's try another comparison: In an episode of Star Trek: Voyager, they used a weapon known as a "Tri-Cobalt Device" to destroy a space station. It was stated that said device was powerful enough to tear a rift into subspace (another dimension). Now an exploding planet/star/galaxy/etc. can't do that. Does that make the Tri-Cobalt device more powerful? Of course not, it's just a special property it has. It took 2 of them to blow up the space station after all, and it wasn't very big or durable.

Good point, but I'm talking about the presence and not their properties. The presence of two energies, an exploding galaxy and an energy that you can sense in another universe. For example, the sunlight can reach another galaxy, can a candle light do that? My point here is about the potential of SSJ3 Goku's energy and not the actual damage he can do.In Electrical Engineering terms, I'm talking about the potential difference or voltage and not the current.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Really? What is the difference then?

Kibito did not think Goku's energy could be sensed from that dimension. He sensed it anyway. So that means Goku was stronger than he thought he was. It doesn't say anything about how strong he actually is.

Kibito did not think that Goku's energy could be sensed from that dimension, meaning even Freeza's energy couldn't reach that dimension. It's about energy not being normal to reach another universe.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Because King Kai's ki sensing abilities were superior to Goku's at that time. How is this difficult to understand? It certainly makes more sense than making up a completely non-canon power for King Kai which is completely unrelated to sensing ki. Occam's Razor, "do not multiply entities unnecessarily". King Kai used his ki sensing powers to detect Nappa and Vegeta en route to earth. Show me where it says it was a completely different power.

No, that's King Kai's specialty, as he stated himself. I'm talking about generic ki sensing.

It was different, why? because he can use that too watch over the universe not ki sensing, it was stated as watch over the universe. Ki sensing is not watching.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes he can. In fact this ability was a major plot point, it's how he saved Gohan and how he went to New Namek to use Porunga to help defeat Kid Buu.

I'm talking about Kaiohshin, not the fused Kaiohshin and Kibito.

Kibito's ability to teleport is KaiKai - it was stated in the daizenshuu that unlike shukan ido, it doesn't require Ki sensing.

Before you react, Daizenshuu was produced by bird studio (equivalent of Marvel and DC company), Toriyama was a part of Bird Studio.

Toriyama, "Tori" means bird in japanese, BIRD studio.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Name one time I have simply made something up, like saying King Kai has a power to track people from across dimensions that has absolutely nothing to do with ki.

Kaioh didn't know about Cell, Cell is far stronger than Nappa. Again, energy that can reach another universe is not normal.