Konvikt vs. Classic Juggernaut

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Galan007
This will be Konvikt, from the "Trinity" series - and Juggy at classic levels.

The fight takes place in Metropolis, no BFR.


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If you're not familiar with Konvikt, he's quite the team wrecker - here's some of his feats..


Owns Black Lightning:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2804/konviktblacklight1pq7.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/32/konviktblacklight2gs9.jpg

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Owns Flash/takes BC's scream:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2221/konviktflash1xm1.jpg

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Owns John Stewart:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2878/konviktjohn1cy5.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5446/konviktjohn2hu4.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/301/konviktjohn3xf3.jpg

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Owns Superman:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3291/konviktsupes1qu2.jpg

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Owns Vixen/Hawkgirl/Superman/Wonder Woman:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/21/konviktsupes2ny0.jpg
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/6664/konviktsupes3xe9.jpg

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Thunderclaps John/Flash:

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8738/konviktthunderclap1ht7.jpg

carver9
Classic jugs got this in the bag.

Galan007
I wouldn't say that. I think this would be a really good fight.

Knowsbleed33
What are Konvikts powers? Those scans show nothing that would affect the Juggernaut.

Galan007
Hulk has beaten and/or stalemated classic Juggs. The above scans show no less than Hulk-level strength, imo.

SuperiorTech
When has the hulk beaten Juggs.

Scoobless
I was wondering how long it would take for the Konvikt threads to appear.

wink

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
I wouldn't say that. I think this would be a really good fight.

I KNOW this would be a good fight but I can just see juggernaut ending it by putting up his force field and laughing at every attack that konvikt dish out.

Juggernaut 10/10

Still good fight.

By the way wwh>kovikt.

SuperiorTech
I can see where this is going page after page of wwh vs Konvikt...

Scoobless
Captain America >> Konvikt

big juggy man
Hulk has beaten and/or stalemated classic Juggs. The above scans show no less than Hulk-level strength, imo.


Only War Hulk has beating the Juggernaut in a fight.

Mindset
I don't remember Hulk beating Juggs besides War Hulk.

Anyone have scans?

psycho gundam
any money this konvikt guy is a cheapshot dc version of wwh, their going to try and stick it to hulk fans by having him get defeated by superman or something. called it first shifty

-------------------------------

anyhow, hulk nor any other non-magic/non-psychic or anyone, abstract otherwise that is below cyttorak is doing any damn thing to the juggernaut that resembles death.....it just can't happen. all they can hope to do is abate getting humiliated in their own comic for awhile.

konvikt will do no better than the hulk did and thats realizing that he can't be broken, just avoided...and konvikt looks kinda dumb so it may take him too long to realize that, thus leading to his eventual pummeling.

and i bet juggy would snap that alien monkey on konvikt's back in half just for kicks.

Knowsbleed33
Hulk ,in any incarnation, has never beaten Juggernaut in a fair fight.

quanchi112
Juggs wins here.

fangirl101
Well Let's look at this now. Superman has been shown to pound on the IM and have to be BFR before he breaks him. Wondy is shown to be the only one who is able to dish it and take it along with Superman. I'd put them both at near precrisis Superman levels. with Superman being a bit more stronger and durable. I can't see WWH beating either of them at those levels. And This Alien guy is stronger than both WW and Supers. And at that point, he hadn't even turned his fur into that armor stuff.

horrorwolf
This goes to Classic the Unstoppable Unharmable Juggernaut.

10/10. Konvict should definitely last a long while though.

Endrict Nuul
Juggs 10/10

fangirl101
Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Juggs 10/10

Based Upon what? The furry Guy has taken hits from the Entire JLA and hasn't shown signs of stopping. And he seems far stronger than Classic Jugs.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by fangirl101
Based Upon what? The furry Guy has taken hits from the Entire JLA and hasn't shown signs of stopping. And he seems far stronger than Classic Jugs. ^stop making this kind of argument, it will only get you flamed.

when it comes to invulnerability, the juggernaut owns that copyright in comics so don't go there, and konvikt is doing all the same sort of physical attacks the hulk did in wwh. juggy was equal to that hulk causing a stalemate the hulk realized would only deter him from his original goal, thus the bfr.

fangirl101
Originally posted by psycho gundam
^stop making this kind of argument, it will only get you flamed.

when it comes to invulnerability, the juggernaut owns that copyright in comics so don't go there, and konvikt is doing all the same sort of physical attacks the hulk did in wwh. juggy was equal to that hulk causing a stalemate the hulk realized would only deter him from his original goal, thus the bfr.

Juggernaut owns the copy right to invulnerability? Like when he got burned in the face? LMAO.

Newjak
Originally posted by fangirl101
Juggernaut owns the copy right to invulnerability? Like when he got burned in the face? LMAO. You know I can show where Juggernaut is completely immune to fire wink

fangirl101
Originally posted by Newjak
You know I can show where Juggernaut is completely immune to fire wink

I'm sure you can. Just means that he is nearly invulnerable. has he been shown to being invulnerable to sonics? even with his shield up for some reason, he can still hear. And even with his shield up, he can still see. I can see those being exploited.

Newjak
Originally posted by fangirl101
I'm sure you can. Just means that he is nearly invulnerable. has he been shown to being invulnerable to sonics? even with his shield up for some reason, he can still hear. And even with his shield up, he can still see. I can see those being exploited. Not really and if so only temporarily.

It isn't like someone can permanently blind the Juggernaut erm

I think you are just reaching now.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Newjak
Not really and if so only temporarily.

It isn't like someone can permanently blind the Juggernaut erm

I think you are just reaching now.

No I'm not. People act as if the juggernaut is completely invulnerable. He's not. It just takes someone to over power cyttoraks enchantment. ONSLAUGHT DID IT. Who later on himself got beaten by the Hulk. I'd say 3 herald level beings would have the power to overide the enchantments properties.

Newjak
Originally posted by fangirl101
No I'm not. People act as if the juggernaut is completely invulnerable. He's not. It just takes someone to over power cyttoraks enchantment. ONSLAUGHT DID IT. Who later on himself got beaten by the Hulk. I'd say 3 herald level beings would have the power to overide the enchantments properties. Actually Onslaught did it when Cain was still weak just coming back from another dimension.


And no Herald level being has over ridden the enchantment. Not Dr. Strange, not Thor, not even Nightmare.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Newjak
Actually Onslaught did it when Cain was still weak just coming back from another dimension.


And no Herald level being has over ridden the enchantment. Not Dr. Strange, not Thor, not even Nightmare.

Thor Drained the Force field. Hulk Stopped The juggernaut's momentum. That is enough for me to realize that anyone that who is either top of the food chain herald, or above can break the enchantments.

llagrok
Originally posted by Newjak
Actually Onslaught did it when Cain was still weak just coming back from another dimension.


And no Herald level being has over ridden the enchantment. Not Dr. Strange, not Thor, not even Nightmare.

Thor sort of did.

Newjak
Originally posted by fangirl101
Thor Drained the Force field. Hulk Stopped The juggernaut's momentum. That is enough for me to realize that anyone that who is either top of the food chain herald, or above can break the enchantments. Thor used a magical hammer that allows him to fight skyfathers and higher and was only able to partially do it erm

Hulk had Celestial powered tech on him. Celestials are > Cyytorak.

So no it wasn't Herald level power that did it erm

fangirl101
Originally posted by Newjak
Thor used a magical hammer that allows him to fight skyfathers and higher and was only able to partially do it erm

Hulk had Celestial powered tech on him. Celestials are > Cyytorak.

So no it wasn't Herald level power that did it erm

Um, Apoc has celestial tech too. So you think he's over cytroak too? LMAO.

Newjak
Originally posted by fangirl101
Um, Apoc has celestial tech too. So you think he's over cytroak too? LMAO. No I think the tech allows people to overcome bits of Cyytorak's enchantments.

Although once again Hulk never hurt Cain.

Thor never beat Cain.


So far in this debate you have used non-cannon material, low points(Most of which aren't like you say but I don't have the time to point out every small thing wrong with them), and bias.



And to point out further everything you have said Konvikt doesn't possess anyways. erm

fangirl101
Originally posted by Newjak
No I think the tech allows people to overcome bits of Cyytorak's enchantments.

Although once again Hulk never hurt Cain.

Thor never beat Cain.


So far in this debate you have used non-cannon material, low points(Most of which aren't like you say but I don't have the time to point out every small thing wrong with them), and bias.



And to point out further everything you have said Konvikt doesn't possess anyways. erm

I am not giving either the win. If you haven't noticed. So no biased. Get your reading straight. Some of Cyttorak's enchantments have been over come. So I'm betting someone who is powerful enough could overcome them all or one of them enough to gain a win.

Newjak
Originally posted by fangirl101
I am not giving either the win. If you haven't noticed. So no biased. Get your reading straight. Some of Cyttorak's enchantments have been over come. So I'm betting someone who is powerful enough could overcome them all or one of them enough to gain a win. Yup but no one you have put Juggernaut against.

The only person to remotely do it was Thor. And even then he had a magical Hammer that was able to attune itself to Cain's specific magical power. Even then it only partially did it, and only worked as long as Thor's hammer kept up the attack. Once it ended Cain immediately got back all his power.

Once again none of the people you have put him against can do this nor would they be able to sustain it. erm

fangirl101
Originally posted by Newjak
Yup but no one you have put Juggernaut against.

The only person to remotely do it was Thor. And even then he had a magical Hammer that was able to attune itself to Cain's specific magical power. Even then it only partially did it, and only worked as long as Thor's hammer kept up the attack. Once it ended Cain immediately got back all his power.

Once again none of the people you have put him against can do this nor would they be able to sustain it. erm

Nor would they have to. They all have thier own special plot powers that can do well against the juggernaut. The main point is that the enchantments can be gotten around.

Galan007
Originally posted by Newjak
Hulk had Celestial powered tech on him. In their first battle , they stalemated - and that was 'regular' Hulk.

Originally posted by Newjak
Celestials are > Cyytorak. Having Celestial tech, did not make WAR Hulk = an actual Celestial. So the above logic is a tad sketchy, imo.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by fangirl101
Nor would they have to. They all have thier own special plot powers that can do well against the juggernaut. The main point is that the enchantments can be gotten around. like what? you don't really know the nature of his power's do you?

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by psycho gundam
^stop making this kind of argument, it will only get you flamed.

when it comes to invulnerability, the juggernaut owns that copyright in comics so don't go there, and konvikt is doing all the same sort of physical attacks the hulk did in wwh. juggy was equal to that hulk causing a stalemate the hulk realized would only deter him from his original goal, thus the bfr.

You know what would be more invulnerable that the Juggernaut?

The Montreal Canadians with Mats Sundin in they're line-up! eek!

fangirl101
Originally posted by psycho gundam
like what? you don't really know the nature of his power's do you?
I know that his powers aren't infinite. I know that stronger force can override any enchantment. Do you think Classic Juggs could take a punch from let's say P/G WM Thor? Or beat thor in a prolonged confrontation?

llagrok
Originally posted by Newjak
Not really and if so only temporarily.

It isn't like someone can permanently blind the Juggernaut erm

I think you are just reaching now.

Nightcrawler > Juggernaut.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by fangirl101
I know that his powers aren't infinite. I know that stronger force can override any enchantment. Do you think Classic Juggs could take a punch from let's say P/G WM Thor? Or beat thor in a prolonged confrontation? power gem amping made thanos's punches strong enough to shatter cap's shield so it is possible, but nobody on the team you assembled has that artifact nore do they have the means to block cain's energy from him.

and thor was only able to block new energy from coming to him, he was still strong and durable from the energies he absorbed, thor only "turned off" his forcefield.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Newjak
Actually Onslaught did it when Cain was still weak just coming back from another dimension.


And no Herald level being has over ridden the enchantment. Not Dr. Strange, not Thor, not even Nightmare. And this is confirmed that he was weak? Because Cain was only weak because of the other dimension. As soon as he returned he should have been back at full power.

Ptr_Grifin
Originally posted by fangirl101
And this is confirmed that he was weak? Because Cain was only weak because of the other dimension. As soon as he returned he should have been back at full power.

Lets put it this way, Onslaught on two occasions in two different comics said Juggernaut is indestructible and can't be killed as long as he is bonded to his power. So it would makes sense that he was still weak from the other dimension so that Onslaught could use he forefinger and thumb to pluck the gem out. I highly doubt those two fingers are that much stronger than the likes of Thor and Hulk.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Lets put it this way, Onslaught on two occasions in two different comics said Juggernaut is indestructible and can't be killed as long as he is bonded to his power. So it would makes sense that he was still weak from the other dimension so that Onslaught could use he forefinger and thumb to pluck the gem out. I highly doubt those two fingers are that much stronger than the likes of Thor and Hulk.

What onslaught said is of no consequence to what he did. There is no proof that juggs was weak from coming back from the other place. The other place immediately depowered him because of it's properties. Which means upon returning to marvel u, he would have been Immediately repowered.

Ptr_Grifin
Originally posted by fangirl101
What onslaught said is of no consequence to what he did. There is no proof that juggs was weak from coming back from the other place. The other place immediately depowered him because of it's properties. Which means upon returning to marvel u, he would have been Immediately repowered.

That doesn't mean he would have been immediately repowered. When he was in the gem he got his power back.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
That doesn't mean he would have been immediately repowered. When he was in the gem he got his power back.

It's up to you to say prove that he wasn't at full power. Prove it. Did he slowly lose power when entering the malibu u? Nope. It was at half immediately. As it was with sienna blaze as well.

Newjak
Originally posted by fangirl101
It's up to you to say prove that he wasn't at full power. Prove it. Did he slowly lose power when entering the malibu u? Nope. It was at half immediately. As it was with sienna blaze as well. Correction he didn't learn he was half power until he tested it out.

And he showed to be a lot weaker than half by the end of the series before he got returned. He was being cut by a monster. wink

fangirl101
Originally posted by Newjak
Correction he didn't learn he was half power until he tested it out.

And he showed to be a lot weaker than half by the end of the series before he got returned. He was being cut by a monster. wink

Well you are either absolutely invulnerable or you are not. There is no such thing as half invulnerble. I assume he was just uber tough at that point.

Newjak
Originally posted by fangirl101
Well you are either absolutely invulnerable or you are not. There is no such thing as half invulnerble. I assume he was just uber tough at that point. You can not be half invulnerable but you can be working on half your normal steam and power.

Cain's enchantment was effectively cut off from him. Which means no unstoppability, no invulnerability, no unlimited strength. Like in his depowered form all Cain would have been doing was going off the rest of the magical energies that was reserved in his body.

By the time he was at the end he would have been at far less than half his base level power.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Newjak
You can not be half invulnerable but you can be working on half your normal steam and power.

Cain's enchantment was effectively cut off from him. Which means no unstoppability, no invulnerability, no unlimited strength. Like in his depowered form all Cain would have been doing was going off the rest of the magical energies that was reserved in his body.

By the time he was at the end he would have been at far less than half his base level power.

Ok, didnt' you say in another thread that the moment flash drains his momentum he would just tap into an infinite reserve of momentum? that would mean the moment he came back to the marvel u, he would get his powers right back. Thanks for shooting your own argument in the foot.

Ptr_Grifin
Originally posted by fangirl101
Ok, didnt' you say in another thread that the moment flash drains his momentum he would just tap into an infinite reserve of momentum? that would mean the moment he came back to the marvel u, he would get his powers right back. Thanks for shooting your own argument in the foot.

That's not shooting down his own argument. You are assuming that once he returned to the regular universe he would get he powers back because if it. If something prevented him drawing power in the other universe, that doesn't mean it was only applied in that universe. In a later issue he was in the gem and was still being hurt. His body and soul were placed in there. He was taking damage and then fought an avatar of Cyttorak and gained his power back.

Newjak
Originally posted by fangirl101
Ok, didnt' you say in another thread that the moment flash drains his momentum he would just tap into an infinite reserve of momentum? that would mean the moment he came back to the marvel u, he would get his powers right back. Thanks for shooting your own argument in the foot. He would and I didn't.

Cause as Cain said in his post-romance convo with She-Hulk, Cyttorak had been draining Cain after he had attacked him.


It just so happens that the Onslaught arc took place after Cain attacked Cyttorak. wink

So just entering into the universe wouldn't have helped him. His connection to the Crimson Cosmos would have been regained but Cyttorak wouldn't have been giving him full access. wink

Only after going into the gem did Cyttorak allow him back full access kinda, He was still really weak and still osing power after that.

Badabing
Originally posted by Newjak
He would and I didn't.

Cause as Cain said in his post-romance convo with She-Hulk, Cyttorak had been draining Cain after he had attacked him.


It just so happens that the Onslaught arc took place after Cain attacked Cyttorak. wink

So just entering into the universe wouldn't have helped him. His connection to the Crimson Cosmos would have been regained but Cyttorak wouldn't have been giving him full access. wink

Only after going into the gem did Cyttorak allow him back full access kinda, He was still really weak and still osing power after that. jugdurnaut

Galan007
^^

You're BaDURbing-ing(vin) the 'jak of new', all over the place today.

Newjak
Originally posted by Galan007
^^

You're BaDURbing-ing(vin) the 'jak of new', all over the place today. ha-son

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by fangirl101
Well Let's look at this now. Superman has been shown to pound on the IM and have to be BFR before he breaks him. Wondy is shown to be the only one who is able to dish it and take it along with Superman. I'd put them both at near precrisis Superman levels. with Superman being a bit more stronger and durable. I can't see WWH beating either of them at those levels. And This Alien guy is stronger than both WW and Supers. And at that point, he hadn't even turned his fur into that armor stuff.

Do you ever argue against DC characters?

fangirl101
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Do you ever argue against DC characters?

Yes. Silver Surfer Vs. Say Superman. Surfer takes a slight majority. See how easy that was.

Knowsbleed33
Shocking.

Hazsekswthurmom
Konvikt

big juggy man
Lets put it this way, Onslaught on two occasions in two different comics said Juggernaut is indestructible and can't be killed as long as he is bonded to his power. So it would makes sense that he was still weak from the other dimension so that Onslaught could use he forefinger and thumb to pluck the gem out. I highly doubt those two fingers are that much stronger than the likes of Thor and Hulk.


The funny thing is the Gem of Cyttorak was never on or in the Juggernauts body just to show you how stupid the Onslaught fight was. But anyway as I said before there is no point in debating with Fangirl. She is a biased fool who believes she knows everything. Any Marvel character you put against a DC character she will pick the DC character and find some stupid way to explain herself. In on post she said the Juggernaut wasnt really that strong just really durable which is funny since Marvel Comics states he is just as strong or stronger than a angry Hulk and classic Thor.

The Juggernaut has been reduced to a skeleton and still survived. As long as he is conneted to the source of his power he can't die. He can't be hurt by a physical force no matter how strong....this is what Marvel states and since there is nothing Konvikt could do that would hurt the Juggernaut he loses every single time.

Knowsbleed33
I have to say I like this Konvikt. Pwning the JLA reminds me of the days of Shaggy Man 1 and Classic Grundy.

WrathfulDwarf
I'd give it to Konvikt because of what was said earlier. He totally pwned the current Justice League. It looks like Juggy would have a hard time.

h1a8
I don't think Juggs is hurting this guy.
This may very well be a stalemate.
Unless this guy is strong enough to rock Juggs brain to ko.

big juggy man
I don't think Juggs is hurting this guy.
This may very well be a stalemate.
Unless this guy is strong enough to rock Juggs brain to ko

Maybe if i say this enough times some one will start to get it. Marvel says the Juggernaut cant be knocked out by physical means and forget that horrible Onslaught crap. So if this guy is 1 millions stronger than Superman he will ever be able to knock the Juggernaut out so in the end he loses.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by big juggy man
I don't think Juggs is hurting this guy.
This may very well be a stalemate.
Unless this guy is strong enough to rock Juggs brain to ko

Maybe if i say this enough times some one will start to get it. Marvel says the Juggernaut cant be knocked out by physical means and forget that horrible Onslaught crap. So if this guy is 1 millions stronger than Superman he will ever be able to knock the Juggernaut out so in the end he loses.

Agreed -some of these people should read the Unstoppable Juggernaut site.

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