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The stuff that champions are made out of!

Prep: 4 Dog years, 138 days.

Time- Tuesday 9:05 PM EST July 1st 2008 - Tuesday 9:05 PM July 1st 2008

Battle Field, As Told By My lovely, and effeminate partner Jamie




Judges: Doctor Hackenbush, Newjak, Badabing, Ha-son, Batdude, Digimark005, and Illadelph

Smurph's Team:

Deity (Firestorm/Meggan)
Architect (Reed Richards/Sage)
Mythic (Jor-El/Ray)
Animal Man
Sprite
Black Bolt

Leo's Team:*
Single Pick1- Forge
Amalgam1- Sersi/Ult. Reed
Amalagam2- Savitar/Vulcan
Single Pick2- Wiz Kid
Single Pick3- Black Box
Amalgam Pick3- Rachel Summers/Cerebro Prime

Redatom65's/Rufus T Firefly's/Capt Spaulding's/Fuzzy Hawkeye's/Dr Hackenbush's Match Notes:

- All memory has been reset.
- Scarlet Speed making match banner.
- Ha-son making the Official Magical Mystery Tourney Banner.
- Both people field their whole team.


*-Leonidas' team may not be accurate...




Ladies and Gentlemen, People of all Sizes. Let's get Ready To Rumble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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KW2J_UZ8lQU

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
KW2J_UZ8lQU



ps--just making sure smurph knows light ray was in for wiz-kid. (the least important part of beating bw . . . )

oh, and before someone jumps all over it -- of course i increase the size of the big bang bomb before i teleport it. i increase it to whatever size the cell allows which even if it isn't FULL size is STILL expelling the energy of a big bang into the lap of his powerless team. once outside, the bombs can easily reach their full sizes and then be ported. and recall -- all tech is SF enhanced, as is pym's powers, since, well, i'm using it.

i realize this will and SHOULD count as 1 of my 8 (do we still only get 8 in the finals?) posts. but i thought it worth mentioning for those judges (and opponents ) with fine eyes for detail.

Do the contestants know about the battlefield before the battle? and is the prep time inside the battlefield?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Do the contestants know about the battlefield before the battle? and is the prep time inside the battlefield? We have a separate thread for discussion.

But we knew about the battlefield (we both reference it in prep), though, AFAIK, our prep is external and we're "teleported" in.

OUTSTANDING JOB ON THE OPENING PAGE, GENTS!! the banners, music and images are friggin SWEET! i said a while ago that, despite some of the problems, this was the best tourney i'd taken part in. i stand by that. well done.

now, let's rumble . . .



and you're basing all of this on the fact that firestorm --a FIRE ELEMENTAL at one time when he was the INCARNATION of the matrix -- was able to manipulate fire.



i love galan, *gratuitous wave hello to galan* but, seriously, his speculation is no more or less relevent than your own. or mine.

frankly, i really don't know what would happen if your guy could absorb the powers of the matrix, but i DO know there is exactly ZERO evidence to suggest that he would become SOLAR. just because it's a dimension of energy, does NOT mean that it would enable you to CONTROL energy in 'all its forms'. hell, if that were the case, I'D be solar since i too have a dimension of energy to call upon! what you are suggesting is PUREST, unsupported speculation, and doesn't really even make sense to me. the matrix was used as a plot device to explain the elemental nature of the character. i truly don't see how gaining access to more of its power would imply you suddenly become solar . . .



why? what about the matrix makes you think that having access to it would translate to being able to control ALL energies? what correlation exists between the matrix and all other forms of energy? and regardless, their IS a limit to meggan and the power you could draw on -- even evolved. she's not omega, and how do we know she isn't ALREADY at her peak?




another guy i respect a lot, but he's ALSO the one who said he didn't want people to OVERRATE her abilities, feels thor would STOMP her and also adds that her powers are increased where there is magical/mystical energies for her to deal with (as there were in EACH of your scans . . .). the matrix is NOT magical, so we have no real idea how much she could even absorb from it. but again, it bears repeating -- there is no proof that accessing the matrix would in ANY WAY AT ALL allow smurph to suddenly gain control over . . .





there is simply no precdent by which to make such a leap, and no evidence. how then can anyone credit this type of speculation? afterall, the matrix is simply ONE of the elemental dimensions -- it would NOT allow control over all the others, (as the others are equal to it) as seen in the elemental war arc. it wouldn't grant him control over the red or green, for instance. or the speed force.

the rest of smurph's prep falls to pieces because his premise is so loosely founded. he goes on to give himself and all his characters SIMILAR powersets, when there is no proof even ONE of them would have the sort of power he is claiming. he goes so far as to claim that because of the matrix power he could replicate ala amazo all the powers of everyone on his team, create telepathy and EVEN a speed force! smurph my friend, i luv ya and respect you as a debater, but there is simply no way i can accept any of those things. the matrix's energy just wouldn't allow that type of power even if you absorbed as much of it as you think you can. what you'd likely have is an uber firestorm -- which is plenty powerful, no doubt, but he would NOT possess control over EVERY TYPE OF ENERGY. there is simply no evidence to suggest such a thing.




train with them? you can't bring them into prep. and why not just copy the powers of the imps while you're at it? nothing in AM's very overrated powerset suggests he could copy the powers of a race as powerful as the poppupians i'm afraid . . .

okay, so enough with his prep . . .

and onto his battle plan . . .

but first, this:

**SLIGHT AMENDMENT**

during the course of some pm's with the boss, i came away with the impression we were in seperate cubes on opposite sides of the larger sphere. nj has pointed out to me that is NOT the case and that he intended for us to arrive in the SAME cube, just in seperate parts. so, anyway, he says my guys would have known, so he's allowed a VERY slight amendment based on the confusion. thanks nj. maybe next time try making the battlefield MORE complicated?

anyway, the amendment IS very slight -- i amped the neutralizing bomb so it would affect an ENTIRE prison cube. i'm simply eliminating the previous RANGE of the radiation and limiting it to the CELL they are in. knowing they are in the SAME cube means finding them with my REAL (as opposed to smurph's pseudo-made-up cosmic awareness) will be even EASIER and FASTER then i previously thought. almost instantaneous. i locate which cell they are in (superman's senses would ALSO allow for that, as would rachel's tp) and drop the neutralizer. it is still amped with SF then i port in the big bang bomb at the same time as we teleport out of the prison cube so that we are far away when it blows up the entire moon-sized cube. nothing has changed at all except the RANGE of the neutralizer bomb. and again, 'pologies for the confusion.



heh. too bad the bombs appear INSIDE your little box. the neutralizer cuts off your powers (so much for diety, whatever she is . . .) then the big bang bomb shows up and you die. it's perfect actually as you've no prepped defenses in place at all. you're also no where NEAR fast enough to avoid the neutralizer which is amped with SF then you have no chance to escape or avoid the BBB.



er, no guns or canons work. ask nj. you are stuck -- powerless and tech-less -- for 10mins on the moon-sized prison cube same as me. the instant the 10mins is up, i find you, neutralize you, port myself out and the BBB in, and you die. all that happens in nanoseconds.




you're going to steal MY speed?

come one now, smurph . . . your little elemental dimension has no power over my own. and MINE is the SOURCE OF ALL MOTION IN THE UNIVERSE.



moi??



too bad MY explosions are faster.

so, to sum up:

--he has NO/ZERO/ZILCH/ZIP evidence to support his becoming SOLAR

--his strategy to escape the cell is kaput and he had no defense against my bombing strike and neutralizing power. i'm immeasureably faster than him (he's relying on TECH to amp his COMBAT, and THINKING speed ) and my tech and all its functions is amped with SF energy

--even if he DOES get out of the cube, i can blow the solar system and remain safe -- the combined energies of TWENTY-THREE BIG BANGS would kill him regardless of shields or how strong he THINKS he is . . .

--if not, i can always find him, banish him to the ult n-zone (never forget -- i am FAR FAR faster than he is . . .) or steal his speed and copy his powers. sage's powers pushing an omega mutant to the next evolutionary stage would be . . . not too shabby. since the next evolutionary stage for an OMEGA like vulcan has been said to be an ABSTRACT BEING . . . (which is why i wanted sage so badly in the draft -- curse you smurph!!!! )

-- i can block any energy attack he throws at me by opening n-zone portals, and he would have HELL trying to FIND me let alone hit me at the speeds i am moving AND thinking.

--he has some made up telepathy and sprite -- i have rachel, with the phoenix AND vulcan AND cerebro, not to mention all the other telepths i have access to! i could literally shred his mind at SF speeds and be done with it INSTANTLY. damn, if the first 2 bombs don't kill him, i could fry his mind before i bother setting off the solar system destroying bombs! firestorm is vulnerable to tp. meggan is VERY vulnerable to it. i happen to be ENORMOUSLY strong in that area . . .

in short: i have many MANY options.

he has speculation, no real offensive strategy, and ZERO established or prepped defenses

Originally posted by leonidas
OUTSTANDING JOB ON THE OPENING PAGE, GENTS!! the banners, music and images are friggin SWEET! i said a while ago that, despite some of the problems, this was the best tourney i'd taken part in. i stand by that. well done.

False. You were in a tourney I ran.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
False. You were in a tourney I ran.

I think we all heard Leo loud and clear

He also just lost my vote...

He was only a judge in my tourney. haermm

A'ight... I've been itching to reply, but haven't had a chance until now. Now I've got good music playing, some time to sit down and stretch the old finger muscles... here we go.

Originally posted by leonidas
OUTSTANDING JOB ON THE OPENING PAGE, GENTS!! Stop buying judges votes with compliments. mhm

Originally posted by leonidas
and you're basing all of this on the fact that firestorm --a FIRE ELEMENTAL at one time when he was the INCARNATION of the matrix -- was able to manipulate fire.
No.

I'm using the example that an omni-elemental said that manipulating fire was easy because "it's just energy" (though many other examples are available... ) to show that Firestorm is an energy manipulator. This really isn't a point you should fight.

Originally posted by leonidas
i love galan, *gratuitous wave hello to galan* but, seriously, his speculation is no more or less relevent than your own. or mine. Relevant? Perhaps. It's certainly less biased then either of ours.

Originally posted by leonidas
just because it's a dimension of energy, does NOT mean that it would enable you to CONTROL energy in 'all its forms'. hell, if that were the case, I'D be solar since i too have a dimension of energy to call upon! what you are suggesting is PUREST, unsupported speculation, and doesn't really even make sense to me. the matrix was used as a plot device to explain the elemental nature of the character. i truly don't see how gaining access to more of its power would imply you suddenly become solar . . .You seem to be misreading my genius (har har). Having access to the Firestorm matrix doesn't give me full use. Having a being that can ALREADY control energy in a number of forms, giving that being INFINITE POTENTIAL, and then giving that being a body capable of FULFILLING THAT POTENTIAL better than ANY OTHER HERALD LEVEL CHARACTER gives me far more access to energy and control than your character.

And there's nothing sudden about becoming Solar. 5 months of > lightspeed training leads me to becoming much more than Solar. But the fact that I have the potential already (as I have shown on panel) and the ability to fulfill it (as I have shown on panel) means that I'm more than capable.


Originally posted by leonidas
why? what about the matrix makes you think that having access to it would translate to being able to control ALL energies? The Firestorm matrix allows
for control of energy. The more power that you draw on from the matrix, the more power you control. Which is why the Professor says that the power of Firestorm is potentially infinite, but in practice that amount of power in a human body burns out in the wink of an eye.

Even if you want to work it out separate from the Matrix:

Infinite power means control over energy, simply. Even if you believed that it wasn't energy, infinite power means infinite possibility, thus STILL making my plan workable. According to Prof. Stein, nothing that I proposed to do is outside the realm of a full power Firestorm.

Originally posted by leonidas
another guy i respect a lot, but he's ALSO the one who said he didn't want people to OVERRATE her abilities, feels thor would STOMP her and also adds that her powers are increased where there is magical/mystical energies for her to deal with (as there were in EACH of your scans . . .). I think that Thor would stomp Meggan as well. Meggan that hasn't been boosted to her full potential, given access to two dimensions of energy, and then 5 months of lightspeed training, and a host of other powers.

And my plan doesn't rely on Meggan's powers being boosted. It relies on FS having a body capable of harnessing and holding sufficient energy. Which I have more than proved Meggan capable of handling, even prior to her many power boosts.

As for my scans...

Meggan draws energy from what is natural to her. She's able to draw enough energy from the Earth (as she is an Earthling) that she can drain the Earth within seconds. This is why she was able to draw energy from the Otherworld, enough energy within seconds, to hold back the chaos wave. If you read the scans, you'll see that she is able to draw Otherworld energy because she's as much a part of Otherworld as Earth. Now she's fused into the matrix and is becoming a part of the Firestorm matrix. This, like all Firestorm entities, becomes as much a home dimension to her as Earth. This is why she can draw energy from the Firestorm matrix. Mind you, she doesn't need to, she just needs to be able to hold it in, as Firestorm can draw on all the energy. But she's more than capable.

They're really the perfect combination.

Originally posted by leonidas
there is simply no precdent by which to make such a leap, and no evidence. how then can anyone credit this type of speculation? afterall, the matrix is simply ONE of the elemental dimensions -- it would NOT allow control over all the others, (as the others are equal to it) as seen in the elemental war arc. it wouldn't grant him control over the red or green, for instance. or the speed force.

Who cares?

Sure, I said energy in all its forms, but Prof. Stein and I weren't even considering the Red (which I have access to anyways, kthx) or the speedforce (which I can create regardless).

I wager that anybody who reached full potential in any of those could do what I propose. Even you are, to an extent, with Savitar. Firestorm just fits the bill easiest.

Originally posted by leonidas
the rest of smurph's prep falls to pieces because his premise is so loosely founded. he goes on to give himself and all his characters SIMILAR powersets, when there is no proof even ONE of them would have the sort of power he is claiming. he goes so far as to claim that because of the matrix power he could replicate ala amazo all the powers of everyone on his team, create telepathy and EVEN a speed force! Energy signatures are energy signatures. There's already comic characters that can copy powers by digesting the signatures... same concept. I'm just altering my own for the same purpose. I'm also altering theirs, because my powerset is much more expansive than Amazo's.

As for everything else... it's all just energy. Telepathy is supposed travel along the electromagnetic spectrum. "Speed force" is just kinetic energy manipulation (notice I'm not "dumping characters into the speedforce". I'm just pulling a New Sun.

You're misconstruing my plans by acting as if I'm simply handing out powers. Everything I've proposed has been shown to be possible in comics before.

Originally posted by leonidas
smurph my friend, i luv ya and respect you as a debater, but there is simply no way i can accept any of those things. the matrix's energy just wouldn't allow that type of power even if you absorbed as much of it as you think you can. what you'd likely have is an uber firestorm -- which is plenty powerful, no doubt, but he would NOT possess control over EVERY TYPE OF ENERGY. there is simply no evidence to suggest such a thing. Again, misconstruction of the truth.

All that I'm doing is accessing Firestorm's full potential. He's been shown to be an energy manipulator of the highest degree for a herald, and to pull powers and abilities out of his ass all the time because of his energy control... all that I'm doing is expanding on that, and utilizing provided reason.

All that you've done is throw up your hands and shout "impossible!" in reply and say that you can't accept it... but it's shown on panel to be perfectly feasible.


Originally posted by leonidas
train with them? you can't bring them into prep. and why not just copy the powers of the imps while you're at it? nothing in AM's very overrated powerset suggests he could copy the powers of a race as powerful as the poppupians i'm afraid . . .

okay, so enough with his prep . . . Train with the powers, not with the Poppupians. And Animal Man has accessed what's only availaible to SUN EATERS... even physical aspects, only in proportion to his size.

And the Imps exist on another dimension. Good idea though.

But again your reply is to say "Nay!" but not give actual reasoning.

Here's the hilarious part, folks. Here's why I hold all of the cards... I have by FAR the superior amalgam, AND I DON'T EVEN NEED IT!. I casually outprepped Leo when I devised a way to escape the cube and he decided to stay there for ten minutes and cackle his evil laughter. Unfortunately for Leo, a few seconds in, his laughter's cut off when his lungs and body are filled with sand and metal. Lolz. Game over. And I can do it all with my prep and Firestorm/Meggan/Sprite.

Originally posted by leonidas
and onto his battle plan . . .

but first, this:

**SLIGHT AMENDMENT**
Slight =/= two paragraphs.

Originally posted by leonidas
heh. too bad the bombs appear INSIDE your little box. the neutralizer cuts off your powers (so much for diety, whatever she is . . .) then the big bang bomb shows up and you die. it's perfect actually as you've no prepped defenses in place at all. you're also no where NEAR fast enough to avoid the neutralizer which is amped with SF then you have no chance to escape or avoid the BBB. The bomb appears after 10 minutes, and I could certainly avoid it. Or absorb it. Or shunt it to a separate dimension. Or transmute it. Or reverse it. Or endure it. Which would you prefer?

Ironically, I'm completely clothed in indestructible metal and you're trying to blow me up... lolz?

Originally posted by leonidas
er, no guns or canons work. ask nj. you are stuck -- powerless and tech-less -- for 10mins on the moon-sized prison cube same as me. the instant the 10mins is up, i find you, neutralize you, port myself out and the BBB in, and you die. all that happens in nanoseconds. I was under the impression that while sci-fi stuff was off limits, projectile weapons that already exist in society are not. But it doesn't matter. My prep specifies that I create adamantium SWORDS as well... and those are certainly not tech. Iirc, the descriptor for the area even specifies what type of metal it is and that we can break it and break out. So I, my friend, am outside and fully powered within seconds, while you are inside busy thinking how clever your bomb is.

As specified during prep... you die in seconds. We turn the whole place into adamantium, save the power source, obviously, and you get up close and personal with the unbreakable metal while you're powerless and vulnerable. Game, set, match.


Originally posted by leonidas
you're going to steal MY speed?

come one now, smurph . . . your little elemental dimension has no power over my own. and MINE is the SOURCE OF ALL MOTION IN THE UNIVERSE. You were just talking earlier about how the Firestorm matrix and the Speedforce were equal, but now use the term "little elemental dimension" to try and make an impression. Heh.

Anyways, the only difference between us, is I have a master of my "little" dimension, while you have a character that has NO ON PANEL APPEARANCES OF EVER USING THE SPEEDFORCE. Savitar's last appearance, he was merged with it by Wally, and was never seen again. Sure he has a few tricks, like speed sharing, but nothing on any speedforce users. Your characters memories and expieriences got reset for this match, and you spent no time training or attempting to utilize the speedforce... you have what, depending on how you see it and depending on Savitar's state of being, is a potentially powerful character, but, unlike myself (), you haven't made an effort to build on that potential.

Aw, shucks.


Originally posted by leonidas
--he has NO/ZERO/ZILCH/ZIP evidence to support his becoming SOLAR I posted my evidence and reasoning... you pretty much avoided it.

-Originally posted by leonidas
-his strategy to escape the cell is kaput and he had no defense against my bombing strike and neutralizing power. i'm immeasureably faster than him (he's relying on TECH to amp his COMBAT, and THINKING speed ) and my tech and all its functions is amped with SF energy You hold none of those edges, and the tech neutralizer, whether it harms a gun or not, does not affect swords. At the end of my prep, I made my characters peak human... 12 Captain Americas will bust through that with ease.

Originally posted by leonidas
--even if he DOES get out of the cube, i can blow the solar system and remain safe -- the combined energies of TWENTY-THREE BIG BANGS would kill him regardless of shields or how strong he THINKS he is . . . I don't even need to use my strength. I can take you out within seconds, since you get out TEN MINUTES after me.

Originally posted by leonidas
--if not, i can always find him, banish him to the ult n-zone (never forget -- i am FAR FAR faster than he is . . .) or steal his speed and copy his powers. sage's powers pushing an omega mutant to the next evolutionary stage would be . . . not too shabby. since the next evolutionary stage for an OMEGA like vulcan has been said to be an ABSTRACT BEING . . . (which is why i wanted sage so badly in the draft -- curse you smurph!!!! ) Addressed all of that, though I can beam you all to the Phantom Zone if I wish.

Huzzah! Another win for Smurph.

RECAP

I have all edges in this match. I hold all the cards.

I have ten minutes in this match where he's powerless and I'm not.

I have a character that utilizes my dimensional energy to the highest degree while he has a character that has absolutely no experience with their "speedforce".

I believe I have twice as many people, and can make more when any of them die.

I have far greater defenses, far more numerous and powerful attacks, far greater control over my speed AND HIS, and am far more versatile in general.

My team has the smartest characters drafted (Reed and JOR-EL) and they've each been given minds that work with computer-like efficiency (Sage) while being boosted to > lightspeed speeds.

Leo's outprepped and outgunned. That's the bottom line. I win.

all righty. this is turning into one of those "yes-i-can-no-you-can't" debates. funny how smurph says i have no real reasons to doubt diety, but he's provided zero proof to suggest she would be able to do ANY of what he is claiming. here is why i don't think meggan/firestorm would make diety as powerful as smurph thinks.

1. can you show me a scan that says somewhere that FS actually DRAWS power from the matrix? the matrix is most commonly viewed as a mindscape of sorts, a space where all the previous FS's share headspace. if one FS dies, another simply drops out of teh matrix into a new host (as happened when ronnie died and found jason) and things proceed as nomal. having access to these previous FS's allows access to FS's abilities, but where does it say he actually DRAWS POWER FROM THE DIMENSION itself? in absorbing the matrix, all you'd be doing would be absorbing these previous FS incarnations. that does NOT imply you'd be gaining more power. in fact, in doing so, what you'd be absorbing would be a large number of consciousnesses (??) that would end up running around in your brain. meggan is ALREADY unstable as hell -- filling her with dozens (hundreds??) of minds would NOT be very good for her fragile psyche.

2. the matrix allows transmuting powers. having access to MORE of that wouldn't necessarily translate to you becoming solar. you'd be an uber transmuter -- if you could become more powerful at all . . .

3. regardless of how you define the matrix, it is UNDOUBTEDLY composed of multiple consciousnesses. what makes you think that meggan could even absorb something that is in a very REAL sense sentient? she's never done anything like that in the past. beyond that, how can you even say the matrix would LET her TRY and absorb it??

the matrix is an EXTREMELY-ill-defined thing and the results of attempting to absorb power from it can not be predicted. it is more than just an empty energy void like cap atom or quasar tap and draw direct energy from. firestorm is not a conduit as these others are and the 'matrix' is a mindscape comprised of all previous FS's. absorbing those personalities, if meggan could even do such a thing, would have wildly unpredicable results, nor is there anything to suggest in ANYWAY that these other personalities would ALLOW the matrix to be absorbed -- afterall, the universe is certainly NOT endangered so they would have no reason whatsoever to accede to this attempt.

suffice to say there is AMPLE reason to doubt the powers of diety . . .

okey-dokey. enough of that, lest anyone think it matters whether diety is as powerful as smurph's likes to think she is.

onto the actual battle:

smurph doesn't quite seem to understand his circumstances fully at the start of the battle.

the cube we are in NEGATES ALL POWERS. what that means is that if i transformed myself into godzilla during prep, when i arrived in the cube the power that ALLOWED me to transform would be negated hence i become a 'normal' human. when smurph tried to make himself PEAK human, the power that ALLOWED that to happen is negated, hence he is only 'simply' human -- just like me.

and even ignoring that for a second -- the cube we are in is the size of the MOON!! we have no idea where we are inside the prison, and no idea what direction gets us out. doubt anything that big has STAIRS and all lifts and the like are without power so you couldn't move up at all. and you want to use swords, moving at simple human speeds, to cut your way out in TEN MINUTES?

i doubt you could cut your way out of a REGULAR sized prison in 10 minutes let alone one that is the size of THE MOON.

so, no, you most certainly do not escape the cube before we regain our powers. and once we DO, i have the definite and overwhelming edge. regardless of how far you get with your swords or how lost you are, i find you instantly, negate your powers (hence it really is meaningless how powerful diety is) then blow you up. lolz at adamantium armor shielding your human (or superhuman) bodies from the energy of an UNLEASHED BIG BANG in your lap!! in all likelihood the adamantium itself would be slagged, but it would be heated high enough to cook you inside it a zillion times over.

and all that happens within NANOSECONDS. well before the tech you are employing to boost your speed even comes online, let alone begins functioning at it's lowly lightspeeds!

and again, if that doesn't work, we have ALREADY ported safely away and are set to shield ourselves with our ult n-zone projectors and destroy you (and you WILL have been weakened by such a blast REGARDLESS of level) with 23 OTHER BIG BANG EXPLOSIONS!

or, i could easily make a hyperspeed attempt to mindrape you BEFORE setting off the solar system destroying bombs. once i've locked onto you mentally, i'll know whether you've survived my first assault instantly and can then crush you via TP or set off the bombs.

if you somehow convince anyone you can survive that, (and i've no conceiveable idea how you could avoid having you powers negated by a bomb that is unleashing neutralizing radiation FAR faster than lightspeed . . .) i could steal your speed. you MAY convince someone you can control kinetic energy (supposition, along with all the other suppositions you've made) but SF>KE and is the SOURCE of it. so no, clearly you CANNOT affect my speed in anyway, while i could simply cut off your access to KE as i've done several times in this thing already. i could VERY likely bomb you, and if you survive, attempt to mindrape you THEN simply steal your speed BEFORE i set off the rest of the bombs.

i really AM that much faster than he is. not to mention i have jefferies powers and sersi's. all i need to do is transmute his tech and then he might as well be standing still compared to me as relates to combat speeds.

i can instantly (at SF enhanced speeds) throw up n-zone barriers to act as shields for whatever he throws at me should he convince anyone he is not dead in the first septo-second of battle. he could never hit me. even omnidirectional blasts are sent to the n-zone. i could hit him with the n-zone projector anytime i want and end him THAT way as well.

seriously, once our powers return, he is utterly out-prepped, without defenses against my bombs, or my speed and offensively even if he DOES survive i am protected from ANYTHING he can throw at me. not that beyond his shattered escape plan he's even OFFERED an offensive strategy . . .

rendered powerless.
blown up.
REALLY blown up.
mindraped.
frozen via speed steal.
cast into the ult n-zone and rendered powerless.

or how about i simply TAKE CONTROL OF THE MATRIX MYSELF, ala desaad very recently. with rachel's psi abilities, access to emma frost's skill-set and vulcan to further tap into and ENHANCE the phoenix force, that might be the simplest method to success of all. if he survives the initial bombing, i'd know immediately, then i can attempt the mindrape before setting off all the bombs. while attempting the mindrape, i could simply take control of the matrix FROM him.

damn, so many options . . .

Ok, so first, to deal with some minor setbacks.

Newjak's nixxed my method of getting out of the prison... it was my own misunderstanding as well as having a judge agree with my interpretation (though I direct neither Newjak nor that judge any animosity).

To get to the point... I'm making a Slight Amendment (Newjak's approved).

It's actually quite simple... I made a bunch of gear to break out of the prison. I'm simply getting rid of it. This includes all swords, guns/cannons and the adamantium cube layering my cell. All gone. I can win quite easily without it.


Now... to the match.
Originally posted by leonidas


1. can you show me a scan that says somewhere that FS actually DRAWS power from the matrix? I've proven that Firestorm draws on some power source that he has access to more of. If you want to challenge the name of that power source, go ahead, but do it on your own time.

And your reasoning is flawed. You're saying that Firestorm can't tap the matrix, and drawing power from it would be detrimental. Even though we can't tap it. So therefore the fact that we can't tap it somehow proves that we can tap it and that we would fill our heads with other people... lolz?

Originally posted by leonidas
2. the matrix allows transmuting powers. having access to MORE of that wouldn't necessarily translate to you becoming solar. you'd be an uber transmuter -- if you could become more powerful at all . . . Unless you're again trying to assert that Firestorm isn't an energy manipulator, despite TONS of proof that he is (absorbing the radiation from nukes, absorbing fires, creating energy constructs, etc.), this point is moot.

Would our transmuting grow as well? Of course. Thanks for doing my debating for me.

And, once again, being able to fully tap the matrix means infinite power... which obviously encompasses everything I've done.

Originally posted by leonidas
3. regardless of how you define the matrix, it is UNDOUBTEDLY composed of multiple consciousnesses. what makes you think that meggan could even absorb something that is in a very REAL sense sentient? Go ahead and try to prove that the power source that Firestorm taps into is the matrix. Find a scan saying that he does. If you don't, your arguments defeat each other (see argument #1)

Originally posted by leonidas
the matrix is an EXTREMELY-ill-defined thing and the results of attempting to absorb power from it can not be predicted. That's ridiculous.

The results of absorbing power from it (or whatever nameless power source we're drawing from) are shown every time Firestorm uses his powers... or appears.

As for predictions, the results of absorbing power from the matrix (or whatever nameless power source you prefer) have already been predicted. I gave you the scan. Prof. Stein, who's considerably more knowledgeable than either of us, especially concerning the matrix (or whatever nameless power source you prefer), predicted that Firestorm's power would be infinite if his body could handle it.

So once again, your arguments are self detrimental and obviously attempts to mix together baseless positions with semantics.

To simplify:

Firestorm taps into a power source. Human bodies can only take so much, so he has to limit himself by a LOT.

Meggan's body can take limitless supplies of energy, and benefits from feeding off all of it.

Meggan's boosted to omega level mutant power and also has the Red to tap into (which we know contains energy as Animal Man and Vixen have used it for energy attacks and constructs).

The, result, Deity, is fully proficient with her powers.

Originally posted by leonidas
onto the actual battle:

no, you most certainly do not escape the cube before we regain our powers. and once we DO, i have the definite and overwhelming edge. regardless of how far you get with your swords or how lost you are, i find you instantly, negate your powers (hence it really is meaningless how powerful diety is) then blow you up.

You do realize that we're not locked in our cubes, right?

We're given full awareness of the layout of the cube and our cells are not locked. Newjak has confirmed this.

So what would my team do when given an opportunity to get free of their prison? Make a break for it.

We'll simply dash for the exits. With a sudden lack of mental links and limited time, we likely won't even be coordinated well.

Ho hum.

What this means though, is that you're unlikely to tag more than one of us with your cell-sized bomb.

Frankly, you're unlikely to tag even one of us.

Here's why...

You're taking a character with absolutely no feats to support the notion that they'd be able to even tap into the speedforce, considering Savitar has no showings with the speedforce and Vulcan hasn't been shown to tap energy of even a remotely similar nature.

Even if that were true, you're assuming that without training and barely any experience with the powers (memories got deleted for this match), they'd be able to time the actions you need to the nanosecond while sharing their speed with maximum efficiency, while exactly pinpointing our multiple locations directly after recieving your powers while simultaneously dealing with other foreign powers such as teleportation and "cosmic awareness".

Lolz?

My characters, on the other hand, have spent the last five months training at lightspeed with their powers and have transferred all previous memories to each other. We likely trump you in all stats, some exceptionally, and are far, far, far more experienced with our powers.

Deity or no Deity, we still destroy you.

And, even if you DO get a bomb within the same vicinity as one of my characters, who is to say that it could bypass the adamantium? You made a bomb based on a ray attack... both of which adamantium is completely impervious to.

And even if it DID stand a chance of bypassing the adamantium, who is to say that it would hit us? Each of my characters makes energy their *****, and the bomb is simply an energy explosion.

And even if we DIDN'T turn it into sunshine and lolly pops, we have energy shields that are automatically summoned that can repel all other energy attacks.

And even if you DID neutralize my characters powers, who is to say that you would then hit us with the bomb? Again, all of my other characters of capable of exiting the vicinity through teleportation or flight faster than you can think, and they can take anybody powerless with them, or simply alter their power signatures to fix any nullification.

And even if you DID destroy one of my characters, who is to say we couldn't just make another? Six of my twelve characters are clones and we're all capable of cloning again immediately.

Finally, this is all assuming that you attack before us. We're far superior with our powers and can hit you at faster then light speeds before you even realize that you've got your powers back. Don't forget, we've got characters who have got Reed's lightspeed machines in addition to kryptonian speed in addition to Poppupian instant evolving in addition to Deity's kinetic energy control, in addition to Sage's super fast processing.

And we have more people than you.

And we have more experience... by a LOT.

We can likely destroy you before you can move an inch.

All it takes is a thought to send you to the Phantom Zone, or to turn you into stone.


Originally posted by leonidas
rendered powerless.
blown up.
REALLY blown up.
mindraped.
frozen via speed steal.
cast into the ult n-zone and rendered powerless.

Powerless... nixxed.

Blown up... with our durability, power sets and your complete lack of control of your powers... lolz. We'll kill you before you know what's happened, and we can simply endure it otherwise. Many of my drafted characters have intangibility, plus our adamantium shells and energy powers. And our energy shields that repel all attacks.

Mindrape... we have very strong telepathy too, plus our shields repel outside telepathy attacks, plus telepathy is just a signal that travels along the electromagnetic spectrum, which we control.

Speed steal... we'll move faster than you from the get go. Our own mock speed force plus all of our powers versus your complete lack of speed force... and one character to boost all of your speeds? Ha! And we have far better kinetic energy control than you. We can steal YOUR speed.

And with our proficiency with our powers and our faster processing, we'll dump you in the phantom zone before your characters even remember about the ultimate n-zone. Plus, that's another energy signal that my shields repel.

And Impossible Man's immediate evolution repels all of the above attacks.

So lolz at you.

Originally posted by leonidas
or how about i simply TAKE CONTROL OF THE MATRIX MYSELF With our energy shields, superior telepathy and our knowledge of dealing with telepathy, plus Impossible Man's immediate evolution, this really isn't even worth addressing.

----------------------------------

We've got all the same powers, I have more.

I have more characters.

All my characters are far more proficient with their powers.

All my characters have far superior offensive options.

All my characters have FAR superior defensive options.

We're cooler, and Leo smells.

Game, set, match.

nah. in thinking what you THOUGHT i was thinking you thought wrong.

i said there were several reasons why i believed absorbing the power source wouldn't work. any individual or combination of reasons throws doubt on your plans.

--it's never been done before. EVER. and there are plenty of uber energy guys in dc.

--FS has never been shown to be able to FURTHER access the source of his power (and in NO BIO and in NO SCAN) has it EVER been demonstrated that FS actually DRAWS power from this other dimensional source . . .

--even if anyone believes you CAN absorb some extra power, we really have no idea WHAT type of power that would be, AND, more importantly, what we DO know of his power source beyond doubt is that it is LITTERED with sentient beings and that if you DID try and absorb this power source, you would be gaining these personalities as they are PART of the source.

in fact, it is THESE VERY ENTITIES that ALLOW ACCESS TO the FS power.

how do we know that for a fact? because jason GAINED his powers by having one of these entities ENTER his body. that being ronnie. in attempting to FURTHER access the source of power, you would be absorbing COUNTLESS personalities, and again THERE IS NO REASON AT ALL SAID ENTITIES WOULD LET HIM TRY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

meggan's mental vulnerabilites are well documented. thinker DEMOLISHED jason in their recent battle via TP attacks.

http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thinker2tc3.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thinker3iv3.jpg

a flood of personalities would be far too much for her to handle and it's even impossible to say whether the matrix (which usually is complete with only 2 or 3 personalities) would hold UP to all those added personalities.

again, so many potential complications with what he is trying to do, zero proof to back up his claims as NO ONE has EVER tried to absorb the power in the manner he is trying. zero proof he can even increase his power at all as he is trying to say.



clearly it's not infinite. nor is it magical in nature. so how much meggan could absorb is also a question.

could their mind handle the influx of personalities would be another question.

granting yourself all these crazy powers (speed force, copying, telepathy . . .) are all nothing more than outlandish (no offense, smurph -- well, maybe a LITTLE offense . . . ) suppositions. there are a whole lotta uber energy guys that have never done HALF of what you are trying to do and have had LIFETIMES to work with their powers.

--you are NOT infinitely powerful.

--you really have no idea if you can even ACCESS the source of power, or if you do if you can remain sane while doing so.

--you don't know how MUCH meggan could absorb nor do you know the IMPACT absorbing a sentient power source would even have on you.

--nor can you provide a reason why the entities that comprise the source of his power would even LET you absorb it!

--and beyond those entities, the ULTIMATE SOURCE of the power is MAYA, the earth.

http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mayarw1.jpg

tell me again, why would SHE allow you to do what you want to do . . .? and if the earth IS the source, and the earth's power is actually SHARED among all the other elemental powers . . . how 'infinite' would it really be?? meggan's already done that stunt and wasn't close to galactus level. now she'd have access (MAYBE) to a quarter of that power. hardly the "infinite being" you're trying to make her out to be . . .

that's a TREMENDOUS amount of uncertainty you are expecting people to simply overlook on the strength of one scan that discusses something that is only THEORETICAL in the first place . . .



omega level?

no proof of that, no proof she's not ALREADY at her peak of power, nor do you know just how MUCH he's limiting himself. meggan can NOT absorb limitless power and her skill improves if the source is MAGICAL. beyond that, your 'simple' explanation is shot to pieces by the fact that the source is littered with sentient beings who GRANT the power and the whole thing is ultimately overseen by MAYA herself, who has no reason at all to allow your to absorb it like you are trying to do. show me meggan absorbing multiple power sources while you're at it. she was unable to handle the PHOENIX FORCE which ALSO shows that her abilities are NOT as perfect as you want everyone to think they are.



that's fine. so i tag one of you. even BEFORE your amendment i spoke of MULTIPLE options. as i've said repeatedly and from the get-go -- i could just as easily tranmute your tech then mindrape the rest of you even BEFORE the second bomb goes off. and i do.

i have UNLIMITED (a REAL omega level mutant) access to the speedforce. i am faster than INSTANTANEOUS SPEED and my THOUGHTS AND POWERS OPERATE AT THAT SAME SPEED.

my speed utterly ENSURES i can do multiple things before you do ANYTHING. i know you're trying to convince people you're fast. but compared to me you simply are not. you want people to think your tech could allow for increased combat and thought speed, and MAYBE it would, (it still wouldn't be close to me . . .) but i would attack before it even came online! i transmute it, then i STEAL YOUR SPEED (i've already posted a scan of a PLANET-SIZED speed steal so range is NOT an issue) and mindrape each of you. all my guys have identical powersets.





i've ALREADY showed a scan where flash himself admitted savitar was FAR more proficient in using the speed force than he was . . . savitar taught WALTER everything walter knew! his ability to use the SF was limited only by his ability to tap into it. and i said we trained with our powers anyways . . .



ahhhh . . . and so at last, the justified doubts about diety are setting in . . .



i could find you and literally drop it on TOP of you before you had a chance to react to it. CA+SF means i find you INSTANTLY. and the bomb too is amped with SF energy.



it wipes you out before you know it hit you.

it's the unleashed energy of a BIG BANG.
it is amped with SF energy.
it erupts WAY before you can even THINK to react. especially considering you will have had your SPEED STOLEN and been MINDRAPED in rapid succession first.

my speed is essentially infinite. and please let's not forget -- i can COPY whatever power he has. so even if the battle DOES become drawn out in someway i can't possibly imagine (he can't find all 23 bombs before i set them off and there is NO WAY he is surviving 23 BIG FRIGGIN' BANGS!! (and no, intangibility won't mean JACK to THAT kind of power) -- i can STILL run around him and copy his powers before he ever has a chance to SENSE me, let alone attack me . . .



funny, by accessing madrox's powers, i can do the same thing.



i've shown a scan where flash circled superman a MILLION times.

again, there can be no doubt in anyone's mind that i am FAR FAR faster than you can HOPE to be. you rely on TECH for your speed. my technopathy can take care of that. my THOUGHTS are infinitely faster than yours.





because AM copied a BASIC skill from a sun-eater you think he can copy the full powerset of one of the most powerful races in the universe?? c'mon smurph . . .



huh? we BOTH have the max. full team + 6 dupes . . .



huh?? we BOTH had the same training time . . .



er . . . i don't really think so . . .



IF anyone believes you can have in some inexplicable way internalized that PZ ability and IF you can somehow explain just how you even FIND me or HIT me at all . . .




you are literally blown up before you know the bomb went off. if you are not mindraped or if i haven't stolen your speed. both of which i do.



my thoughts and powers are SF amped. your thoughts and mental defenses would be APPALLINGLY slow compared to me . . . if you HAD any defenses . . .

again, you are finished before your tech comes online.







too slow by a LONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot . . .







of course it isn't, cuz you have no reasonable defense for it. it happened easily for desaad. i have vulcan amping my phoenix force energy, i have cerebro enhancing rachel's powers as well. i have access to emma's skillset, jonzz's TP . . .

you have some tech and 2 ENORMOUSLY vulnerable characters. once i'm in your mind (and you've no way to keep me out . . .) you are screwed. i simply take control of the matrix by dominating your dominant personality -- IF anyone believes you can access it. of course, more than likely you go nuts with all the personalities you absorb (more likley still MAYA says screw you, and gtfo!! )



not once i've copied them -- and my metabolism and systems all work at hyperspeeds so i could copy you INSTANTLY.



er . . .?

don't forget i have darwin's powerset active the entire time. supes invulnerability, wolverine's healing factor (SF ENHANCED -- IMAGINE how fast i'd heal from damn-near ANYTHING!) and a GL shield in place.



i . . . don't think so . . .



nuh-uh . . .



of VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

why?

quick recap of what happens for those losing their minds:

10mins is up. his guys have scattered. i pick one off, neutralize his powers with my first bomb. i find them all, steal their speed and mindrape them. if you think they accessed the power source, i take control of it from them and assume the power for myself. their guys are VERY weak to TP, (thinker beat FS down with TP) and desaad has just accomplished taking control of FS. if they resist, we port away, set off the second bomb. it kills or weakens them. we continue to monitor them. if they survive, we blow the whole system. if they survive, they are weakened, i copy their powers while they have no way to find or hit us. then i copy their powers or use the ult n-zone projector to banish them and eliminate all their powers. all our tech is SF enhanced. my thoughts and perceptions are infinitely faster than his.

he has STILL offered next to nothing in terms of offensive strategy. matter manip on us? not gonna do much good when i'm too fast for him to sense . . . omniblasts? not with our shields, n-zone projectors and invulnerabilty.

again, he has no options EXCEPT to try and make you think he can somehow keep up with me in speed. that's . . . ridiculous.

speed, mindrape, 23 BIG BANGS, and adaptability ftw.

nwoot

Originally posted by leonidas


--it's never been done before. EVER. and there are plenty of uber energy guys in dc. What has never been done before? A Firestorm with more power than the norm? Considering that you're debating the essence of PIS, is this even worth responding to?

Originally posted by leonidas
--FS has never been shown to be able to FURTHER access the source of his power (and in NO BIO and in NO SCAN) has it EVER been demonstrated that FS actually DRAWS power from this other dimensional source . . . Once again...

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/firestorm1.jpg

You're simply debating semantics. We know, because of that scan, that Firestorm has access to WAY more power and has to limit himself because his body can't handle it.

"But it's not the matrix!" "But he doesn't DRAW it!" "But he hasn't accessed it before!"

It's ALL answered in that scan...

Originally posted by leonidas
--even if anyone believes you CAN absorb some extra power, we really have no idea WHAT type of power that would be, AND, more importantly, what we DO know of his power source beyond doubt is that it is LITTERED with sentient beings and that if you DID try and absorb this power source, you would be gaining these personalities as they are PART of the source. Ha! I'm literally LOL'ing here.

Last post you said that there's no proof it's even the matrix that he draws from.

Now you're saying that it's BEYOND DOUBT that he draws from the matrix, and therefore his power source is littered with sentient beings.

You're tripping over your words and feet trying to come up with an actual defense here.

Originally posted by leonidas
in fact, it is THESE VERY ENTITIES that ALLOW ACCESS TO the FS power.

how do we know that for a fact? because jason GAINED his powers by having one of these entities ENTER his body. that being ronnie. in attempting to FURTHER access the source of power, you would be absorbing COUNTLESS personalities, and again THERE IS NO REASON AT ALL SAID ENTITIES WOULD LET HIM TRY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Proof that I would absorb personalities by tapping extra power? That's completely baseless... and any proof that these apparent "entities" have the option to limit my power or remove it? Just because I choose to sell someone a gun doesn't mean I can stop them with a word from going on a rampage with it.

You're leaping to conclusions in your effort to shut down my plan, because you know that once I have access to all of this power, I end your existence at a whim.

Look at Leo dance, folks!

Originally posted by leonidas

again, so many potential complications with what he is trying to do, zero proof to back up his claims as NO ONE has EVER tried to absorb the power in the manner he is trying. zero proof he can even increase his power at all as he is trying to say. While we're on this note...

You throw these accusations around, but where's your proof that Vulcan could try to manipulate the speed force? Every time we see Firestorm manipulate energy, we see a legit energy manipulator manipulate his power source. When has a legit energy manipulator used the speed force by tapping into it with non-SF related powers? You claim there are so many high enough energy wielders in DC, that the SF and FS's power are equal in stature and scale, and the Flash's certainly have more appearances than Firestorm... so where's your proof that a mutant using mutant abilities could manipulate the speed force?

You're ruining your own game just by trying to throw up defenses against me.

Originally posted by leonidas
clearly it's not infinite. nor is it magical in nature. so how much meggan could absorb is also a question. How is it clear that it's not infinite?

And Meggan's manipulated and absorbed all kinds of energies. She's boosted heat by a thousandfold and removed the electricity from peoples brains. And she draws powers constantly from the earth, which is, until further notice... not magical. She drew tons of power from the earth within seconds.

The only thing that relies on her drawing power is if it's natural and is natural to her. The otherworld was... she drew tons of power. The earth is natural to her... she drew tons of power. Hell, you'd need to prove that Captain Britain's extra powers WAS magic, and not just put in place by magic. Despite this, she still absorbed enough to destroy something that was so hard that it melted adamantium drill bits... in one shot, she destroyed it.

Mind you I've said this all before and will probably end up saying it again if you continue to dodge my responses.

Originally posted by leonidas
granting yourself all these crazy powers (speed force, copying, telepathy . . .) are all nothing more than outlandish (no offense, smurph -- well, maybe a LITTLE offense . . . ) suppositions. there are a whole lotta uber energy guys that have never done HALF of what you are trying to do and have had LIFETIMES to work with their powers. Again, this is more than a little hypocritical, and again you're simply debating against the idea of PIS.

Originally posted by leonidas
--you are NOT infinitely powerful. I have a character who has the option to tap infinite power and I have a character who can handle all that power.

As much as you'd like to disagree and throw supposition at me...

Originally posted by leonidas
--you really have no idea if you can even ACCESS the source of power, or if you do if you can remain sane while doing so. Firestorm constantly accesses the source of power, and you have provided nothing to show that we'd absorb personalities. That's completely out of nowhere with nothing to back it...

Seriously, that's completely baseless.

Originally posted by leonidas
--you don't know how MUCH meggan could absorb nor do you know the IMPACT absorbing a sentient power source would even have on you. I know she can absorb enough to make her the nigh-equivalent of Wanda's wave in seconds.

Forgive me if I think she's capable of stomping all over your team... especially at Omega level power.

And you have no proof that it's sentient... Prof. Stein implies it isn't, Firestorm's never had problems with it, and there's absolutely NOTHING to give the idea that it is, other than your silly defenses.

Originally posted by leonidas
--nor can you provide a reason why the entities that comprise the source of his power would even LET you absorb it! And you have no proof that they could stop me. Or that they would. We can do this all day, but I'm saying they wouldn't stop me, and would like to see where you get the indication that they could/would.

Originally posted by leonidas
--and beyond those entities, the ULTIMATE SOURCE of the power is MAYA, the earth.

http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mayarw1.jpg

tell me again, why would SHE allow you to do what you want to do . . .? and if the earth IS the source, and the earth's power is actually SHARED among all the other elemental powers . . . how 'infinite' would it really be?? meggan's already done that stunt and wasn't close to galactus level. now she'd have access (MAYBE) to a quarter of that power. hardly the "infinite being" you're trying to make her out to be . . . Why would she allow me? Why would she prevent me when she's never prevented Firestorm before?

Also... Meggan is constantly in tune with the Earth, feels for the Earth and is basically a spirit of the earth. It's been shown on panel that she's practically a spirit of the earth... they're best friends.

Then there's the fact that Maya is an abstract being that created the matrix... but we have no proof that that's her power. You're simply putting words in her mouth. Even if it was, the idea that an abstract being doesn't have enough power to defeat you is ridiculous. As for "sharing power = a limit to power", Presence shares power with the Spectre... so obviously the Presence isn't unlimited power incarnate.

Finally, this might be a bit of a revelation to you, but Maya is a DC character. Meggan is a marvel character. So yes, Meggan's reached the max of Earth's power to offer in seconds before... but seeing as Maya is an abstract being, it's quite ludicrous to suggest that Meggan > Maya.

Originally posted by leonidas

omega level?



Oh, FFS...

All omega mutants have had it stated on panel that they're omega level. Are you ACTUALLY suggesting that Meggan is already an omega mutant? And even if Sage's power up boosted a different area of her powers, all of Meggan's powers boost each other. And seeing as it's shown on panel that she can draw enough power at base level without Sage's boosts, this line of argument is truly fruitless for you.

Originally posted by leonidas
i could just as easily tranmute your tech then mindrape the rest of you even BEFORE the second bomb goes off. and i do. Or not.

We can transmute YOUR tech and then mindrape YOU!

We're FAR more proficient with our powers and have Sage's multitasking (arguably one of the best multitaskers in comics) and super fast processing via her computer brain along with Reed AND Jor-El's genius working together with better team work and with more experience. We'll be running through our options before you realize we're there.

Originally posted by leonidas
i have UNLIMITED (a REAL omega level mutant) access to the speedforce. i am faster than INSTANTANEOUS SPEED and my THOUGHTS AND POWERS OPERATE AT THAT SAME SPEED. And I have access to a REAL omega level mutant while you have no proof you can manipulate the speed force with Vulcan's powers.

You are not faster than instantaneous speed. crylaugh

I might as well wrap up why Leo's whole "Emperor Speed" is a sham right now.

Judges, READ THIS!

Savitar has no scans showing him manipulating the speed force. He has a couple quotes of hyperbole at best.

Savitar has never shown the reactions that the great Flashes have, Savitar has shown a couple speed tricks (like lending stationary objects speed), and Wally was impressed.

Suddenly, according to Leo, Savitar is capable of multitasking with foreign powers down to the nanosecond, and pulling off every major speed feat that any Flash has shown.

This is basically akin to Spider-Man saying that Sentry stalemated Galactus.

Leo throws around claims like he's faster than instantaneous speed because WALLY was. Or that he can race thousands of times around Superman because WALLY could.

Suddenly, a character with NO showings actually tapping into the speed force, with ZERO showings coming close to what Leo would have you believe him capable of is going to pull off ANY great speed feat at Leo's whim.

Leo would have you believe he sneaked Wally West into this tournament.

Leo in fact sneaked something that's less than Impulse.

Their experience was deleted for this match and Leo didn't even bother to try making Savitar an expert with his powers via training. All that he did was shove "Emperor Speed" in the match and hope that the judges would buy some at best ambiguous showings and a lot of hyperbole.

Lolz at "Emperor Speed".

I'm FASTER than Leo, I have more CHARACTERS than Leo, my team OPERATES BETTER IN FIELD, and we're BETTER WITH OUR HIGHER OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE POWERS.


We seek Leo out before he hits us with any attacks. We beam him to the Phantom Zone, we turn him to stone, etc.

Worth noting something...

Within seconds, Meggan absorbed enough energy to STALEMATE WANDA'S WAVE... now we have FIVE MONTHS. Even if there were problems with our power sources, we have TWO POWER SOURCES IN ADDITION TO THE NORM...

And he hits us with a bomb. Wanda's wave was ripping apart reality, and we have something MUCH more powerful than what went up against the chaos wave.

The blast will do NOTHING to us... nor will anything Leo can throw against us.

Leo has to remain constantly on defense because if my plan works, I'd utterly destroy him.

Even if you don't buy me absorbing power from the Matrix, I can still absorb power from the Red... which IS a semi-mystical source that powers much of nature, which Meggan is directly linked to.

I don't have to achieve abstract level to defeat Leo, nor do I need to even amp. But I can.

Leo's best gun is a sham. His prep plan has fallen through. His best plans of attack are easily counterable, and can't get past my reflexes, durability, shields and power level.

I can eliminate his team with a thought.

Faceman Violated Me!

Originally posted by Flow01
Faceman Violated Me!

Further spam will result in a formal warning. Don't post in this thread with off-topic nonsense. If you have anything further, PM me.

BUTT PLUG

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Further spam will result in a formal warning. Don't post in this thread with off-topic nonsense. If you have anything further, PM me.

Ahh, im askin for it, dont feel bad... BUTT PLUG?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Further spam will result in a formal warning. Don't post in this thread with off-topic nonsense. If you have anything further, PM me.

pr1983

Originally posted by Flow01
Ahh, im askin for it, dont feel bad... BUTT PLUG?

stop.

Final Thoughts and Summary (Probably)

Deity

Leo can throw as many phony defenses against me as he pleases. My plan is very simple. Firestorm has access to a huge power source, but must limit himself because of his durability. I've rectified that problem. Simultaneously, Meggan has the ability to grow super powerful if given a proper power source. Firestorm has that power source, has the ability to manipulate that power source, and is already tapped in.

There's no proof that I even need to absorb the matrix in order for my powers to function, or that something completely random would happen like absorbing personalities.

Remember, folks, this is a Meggan far more powerful than we've ever seen combined with Firestorm. What doubt you have about one of them being able to do, the other one can most certainly do.

Leo says Meggan can't manipulate the large amounts of energy unless it's magical. Despite showing that it's not true, I can also point out that Firestorm can manipulate the energy... he just needs Meggan's durability.

Untapped Potential

Meggan's elemental abilities will be boosted by Sage, as I've said. But a boost to omega level would also boost Meggan's shapeshifting abilities. Combine that with multiple major power sources coursing through her body, and she'd have extremely powerful shifting abilities... Meggan's shifted to give herself the power cosmic before. If there's any issues with handling the energy, or with granting herself powers, she can simply shift.

Leo says that we can't copy the shapeshifting abilities of Poppupians. Ridiculous. We won't have Impossible Man's ability to break the fourth wall, and we won't be skilled enough to do everything he's done... but we can easily use the Poppupians ability to insta-adapt to any situation to overpower any attack he throws at us.

Remember all of Deity's powers I granted at the beginning. She's an Amazo with an extreme base power set, only much, MUCH greater power output than standard Amazo and much more creative. Also, there's 12 of them.

Also remember things like the shield that Leo's offered no method of bypassing, etc.

Finally, I have the two smartest characters in the tourney thinking for five months with Sage's powers that work out to be mental steroids, and thinking at lightspeed. Any problems that Leo can come up with, they can remedy in five seconds. If there are personalities in the matrix, they can build gear to block it out.

I said they train and perfect... and they do.

Leo's Prep

Lolz... won't work. I've already shown why the Neutralizing Bomb is a laugh... we can counter it, we can endure it, we can heal from it, we can block it, we can manipulate it, we can avoid it and we can make a new person...

As for the Big Bang Bombs, they're really nothing special. Leo says they would incinerate intangibility... why? When no other explosion has... why? And I have characters that can become effortlessly intangible. Or we can endure it, or we can let it wash over our shields, or we can turn it into sunshine and lollipops. Or we can drain it.

What do you think an explosion would do to someone who directly dwarfs a character that stalemated Wanda's reality destroying wave?

Drawing power makes Meggan stronger. A lot stronger. Firestorm has the ability to draw from his power source. Meggan accesses it all and becomes abstract level. At the same time, Firestorm gets boosted to Solar levels.

Remember, they're amalgamated. Leo says that Meggan can't take from the power... but Firestorm can. So therefore Meggan can. Meggan can benefit from any available power source that is intimately connected to her being. The Earth, Otherworld, her brother... and the FS Matrix is very, very much a part of Firestorm, and therefore Deity.

You really have to wrap your mind around the idea of complete amalgamation.

Leo's Team

Superlulz.

His flagbearer is a fake. Emperor Speed is composed of two characters. One has NO on panel showings of actually manipulating the speed force... just ambiguous hyperbole and other characters word that he's "awesume!"

The other has no indication that his mutant powers would allow him to tap into or manipulate the speed force, and the speed force has no showings that indicate that any energy manipulator can have their way with it.

The result is a character that CAN'T multitask according to the picosecond, that CAN'T mess with a far superior team and pull speed tricks on abstract level characters that move far faster and far more efficiently and well trained.

The result is character that CAN'T run laps around Superman, that CAN'T pull off every feat from Wally West or Bart Allen and that is frankly mediocre.

I'm pretty sure most of them can't indefinitely survive the conditions of space, much less Newjak's prison, anyways.

And did I mention I have twice as many people, and we all have more powers and better training?

----------------------------------------------------------

That's pretty much the gist. I can laugh off anything he tries, and Leo needs to remain on the defensive until the end to try to throw doubt at one of my numerous edges.

k. last kick at the smurph.

dispensing with the emperor speed issue . . .

EMPEROR SPEED ROCKS:

savitar has FORGOTTEN more about the SF than wally will ever know:

http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sf2da5.jpg

wally telling jesse that savitar can MANIPULATE the SF:

http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sfmanipjv4.jpg

wally's own words: savitar is AS FAST AS WALLY and STRONGER:

http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sf3gm3.jpg

a speed feat accomplished by wally as he is battling savitar:

http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=electronjumpky3.jpg

you know how quickly an electron jumps to the next energy level? said to be INSTANTANEOUSLY.

lastly, walter west -- DARK FLASH -- admitting he learned all his SF secrets from savitar before he tricked and killed savitar:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/walvswal9.jpg

i highly recommend looking at the flash respect thread for some of walter's feats with the SF. anyway, savitar ALSO drained the speed of EVERY SPEEDSTER ON EARTH except wally. his power was limited ONLY by his ability to TAP the SF. a problem eliminated by vulcan who can manipulate potentially UNLIMITED amounts of ANY energy. (hell, in an alternate reality, vulcan manipulated the energy inside the M'KRANN CRYSTAL and took on the full power of the phoenix force!) that said, vulcan could NOT manipulate the SF on his own. but savitar's knowledge of it is unparallelled and he ALREADY has access to it.

DIETY SUCKS (duh ):

i will enumerate a final time why absorbing the source of FS's power is NOT nearly as straight forward as smurph wants you to think it is:

1. no proof FS is an OPEN conduit to this mysterious 'infinite source' -- IE--he has never been shown to be able to CONSCIOUSLY TAP into more of the power. that's a big one. smurph wants you to believe he can, at a whim, tap into something that he has NEVER HAS BEFORE.) and what reason does smurph give to defend this? PIS. for the 30 years FS has been around.

anyway, we all know what it means when someone needs to resort to the PIS argument . . . (it means they have no REAL defense bats . . . )

2. FS was created by MAYA, an earth goddess. (abstract?? maybe in essence, but her power has never been shown to be all that impressive . . . during elemental awar, she is said to be DYING) she DIVIDED her power among the FOUR elemental forms, so . . . realistically, how 'infinite' can the power source be . . .?

3. i showed proof that maya is responsible for FS. again, why would she allow FS to drain the power source (HER POWER!!) for purely selfish reasons?? smurph says -- "why WOULDN'T she, she never stopped him before!?" of course, he's never TRIED anything like what smurph is trying to do . . .

4. i'll forego the talk about whether the matrix IS his power source, or where his power stems from, the effects an influx of personalities would have on him, etc, in favor of this simple and utterly damning scan:

http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fs1rq3.jpg

he gets his power from the sun.

guess what is LACKING in this battlefield? a STAR!

so if his power source is a STAR, and there is no star to amp from for meggan, where exactly is he getting his power from again . . .??

seriously, between the matrix/power source confusion, and this NEW proof that he gets his power from stars, his whole diety plan is deader than the smurfs in my sig . . .

and let's not forget, he wants to use a very INEXPERIENCED jason to pull off this miracle of an amalgamation.

simple energy absorbtion? hardly . . .

some other points:

--meggan is NOT omega level. notice that nowhere does smurph show sage boosting someone to omega level . . .

--**MOST IMPORTANT SINGLE POINT OF THE MATCH**:

when our powers are all shut-off and come back on, meggan would need to go through the whole process of REABSORBING all the power from FS's source (WHATEVER IT IS!) if you DO believe he can do what he claims, then you must ALSO believe that it would take TIME for her to do so. in smurph's own words, and in his own scan, he said it took SECONDS to absorb the power of otherworld. he wants to absorb MORE than that this time!! that would mean that diety would have no more power than REGULAR FS when the power came on and she would need to spend precious seconds BECOMING STRONGER!! in my case, savitar's link to the SF is instantaneous (it IS my power so when the power comes on i instantly reestablish contact with it.) that means I'M at FULL power SECONDS BEFORE HE IS. and everyone here knows EXACTLY what i would do to him in the SECONDS (which may as well be YEARS for me to take advantage of . . .) he spends reabsorbing the power source's power . . .

he is completely and utterly screwed.

even IF diety is all he HOPES she is, i kill her BEFORE she can ever have the chance to evolve to her, um, 'abstract' state . . .

--note the utter lack of defense he established against TP attacks, let alone TP attacks coming at HYPERSPEEDS. that's because other than saying he GRANTS HIMSELF PSEUDO-TP, he HAS no defense against TP. while he is powering back up, i steal his speed then destroy his mind or simply make myself the dominant personality in the matrix and take his power for myself. or i copy his power.

--if i sense none of these things are working for whatever reason, i blow him up. he will NOT have accesed all his power yet, he will NOT have had time to set up a 'blocks everything shield' and even if he did, i think he's underestimating the power of a FRIGGIN' BIG BANG!! intangible?

http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fs2bi0.jpg

even if you think intangibility WOULD work -- ridiculous as his ATOMIC STRUCTURE would be disintegrated in an INSTANT! -- he does NOT possess intangibility any longer.

so, i drop a BIG BANG in his lap. it WOULD kill him, or at the very least SEVERELY weaken him. then i could try and mindrape again, steal his speed, send him to the n-zone, copy his powers, or do any of the other things i've said before (recall all tech is SF-amped)

--notice again his complete lack of reasons for being able to even FIND me to hit! he thinks his TECH makes him fast and that sage's lightspeed thinking is fast. he thinks his PSEUDO-SELF-GRANTED-COSMIC-AWARENESS would help him . . . seriously.

--he does NOT have more guys than i do (we both have max) nor is he somehow more experienced than i am (we both practiced with all our powers)

once again, to recap what happens:

power comes on.

his team scatters.

i sense them and pick one off with the neutralizer.

i then steal the speed of all the others and mindrape them AS THEY ATTEMPT TO REABSORB . . . whatever power (from a non-existent star??) they are reaching for. they are still weak, their tech has yet to come online. my speed advantage is utterly and completely overwhelming and according to smurph himself it takes SECONDS to acquire his power anyway. (btw -- the SUN is NOT magical as far as i know, and she has no affinity for it so i see no reason why she could absorb much of it even if stellar power IS available somehow . . .)

if there is any resistance at all, i drop a big bang on them

if they STILL live somehow (anyone who thinks they deal with all that kindly explain exactly how . . .), i try and steal their speed or mindrape them again and if they resist again, i drop 23 big bangs on them.

my surest and undeniable advantage is time. it takes him TIME to become powerful. i use that time and kill him. whatever diety MAY be, we'll never have the chance to find out.

leo winz!!!!!!!

Originally posted by leonidas
k. last kick at the smurph.

dispensing with the emperor speed issue . . .

EMPEROR SPEED ROCKS:


So, judges, like I said, to sum up Leo's points, he has no scans of Savitar manipulating the speed force. Just basic hyperbole from the mouths of others.

The entire fight is based around the idea that Wally is intimidated because Savitar knows how to manipulate the motion of objects in more ways than Wally does... so therefore Wally concludes that Savitar is an insanely high tier speed force manipulator, and that he's just as proficient in all aspects of speed as Wally is, despite this never being shown.

Think of it as the CIS that Spider-Man undergoes when battling any martial artist, especially Captain America, only on a much larger scale.


Originally posted by leonidas
a problem eliminated by vulcan who can manipulate potentially UNLIMITED amounts of ANY energy. So, once again, as I stated, Leo has far less proof of Vulcan being able to use his mutant powers to manipulate the speed force than I have of anything he's attacked me on concerning Deity. He can't even show Savitar tapping the speed force, which says a lot about Savitar's vaunted knowledge. And there's still nothing to suggest that a base energy manipulator could mess with the speed force, considering I've never seen it done on panel with any Flash (and they have numerous appearances). There's nothing to suggest that a power so foreign as a mutant could manipulate the speedforce.

Leo would have you believe that he's obviously capable... because if you come to the obvious and simple conclusion that he isn't, his whole plan falls through.

Originally posted by leonidas
DIETY SUCKS (duh ): I lol'd

Originally posted by leonidas
1. no proof FS is an OPEN conduit to this mysterious 'infinite source' -- IE--he has never been shown to be able to CONSCIOUSLY TAP into more of the power. that's a big one. smurph wants you to believe he can, at a whim, tap into something that he has NEVER HAS BEFORE.) and what reason does smurph give to defend this? PIS. for the 30 years FS has been around. And yet, you're about to go on to say that Firestorm draws his power from a star, which is an open conduit of energy. So I don't see how you can have one point be credible while the other directly defies it.

Even if this was true, I have smarter versions of Reed Richards and Jor-El thinking with telepathy at >lightspeeds, with constant access to consult Prof. Stein, the most knowledgeable character concerning Firestorm in all of comic-dom. (They can talk to him through the FS Matrix, which Leo has so kindly pointed out is where he, and all other FS-related characters chill).

If there were any such problem, Reed and Jor could rectify it in seconds. And we have five months.

One last point while I'm quoting this... I'd like to rephrase Leo's quote for him.

1. no proof Savitar is an OPEN conduit to this mysterious 'speed force' -- IE--he has never been shown to be able to CONSCIOUSLY TAP into more of the power. that's a big one. leo wants you to believe he can, at a whim, tap into something that he has NEVER HAS BEFORE.) and what reason does leo give to defend this? He didn't. He avoided it.

Originally posted by leonidas
i showed proof that maya is responsible for FS. again, why would she allow FS to drain the power source (HER POWER!!)

I have five months to talk to Maya, and Meggan is practically as close as you can get to being her child or "angel".

Funny how these power sets work out...

Also, how can you simultaneously claim that all my power comes from the earth and the sun?

Originally posted by leonidas
i'll forego the talk about whether the matrix IS his power source, or where his power stems from, the effects an influx of personalities would have on him, etc, in favor of this simple and utterly damning scan:

http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fs1rq3.jpg

he gets his power from the sun.



You just wiped away every single argument you've made about people blocking off my power source or not being allowed, or not being able to tap it, or not having access.

Let me explain...

First off, this one scan is contradicted by each scan or shred of evidence you've given so far. Each declaration about Maya, the Matrix or Firestorm not having access goes completely against this, which ruins the credibility not only of those arguments, but of this one as well.

Secondly, even if this was true, that just makes things that much simpler. I have access to suns in prep. And take a look at my opening post. I've created adamantium versions of Super-Boy Prime's suit... that collects and stores SOLAR RADIATION. crylaugh

So I'll be able to fully stock up my powers in prep.

Finally, and this is the really damaging part...


Originally posted by leonidas
--**MOST IMPORTANT SINGLE POINT OF THE MATCH**:

when our powers are all shut-off and come back on, meggan would need to go through the whole process of REABSORBING all the power from FS's source

This is the part that really made me smile.

Leo, you've made one huge, incorrect assumption. You've assumed that the nullifier puts us at base power level.

I asked Newjak about what would happen if we entered the battle extra small, extra powerful, etc.

He said for the ten minutes that we're nulled, we're at base human form. Then as soon as the nullifier cuts out, we go back to exactly how we were before.

That means I'm just as powerful as I was. Which, in case you were wondering, means I've had absolutely tons of energy stored, and have amped Firestorm's powers to an absolutely incredible degree, along with having made Meggan as powerful as HoM Wanda.

Thanks for the help Leo.

Originally posted by leonidas
--note the utter lack of defense he established against TP attacks As I've told you, my shields block out tp, Impossible Man's powers allow me to block out TP, I can use Meggan's super shifting to block out TP, I can use Deity's energy powers to block out TP, or I can simply use the signal to hurt you instead.


Originally posted by leonidas
--if i sense none of these things are working for whatever reason, i blow him up.

Once again, you have no anti-intangibility argument. Sersi's withstood similar explosions through transmutation and energy control seperately. I'm FAR more proficient in each, even at base levels, and I think at a higher degree.

Plus my shields, adamantium, powers, etc. Adamantium can withstand it, and the heat would simply be absorbed.

Plus you won't set it off in time, since you don't have anywhere near the appropriate reaction times, and are dealing with powers you have no business using. It'll be seconds too long, and we'll destroy you after the first nanosecond.

Plus, with Meggan's now abstract-level powers, we can simply endure it.

Originally posted by leonidas
http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fs2bi0.jpg

even if you think intangibility WOULD work -- ridiculous as his ATOMIC STRUCTURE would be disintegrated in an INSTANT! -- he does NOT possess intangibility any longer. Meggan can go intangible too.

And we have five months with Stein to access that power.

Originally posted by leonidas
i then steal the speed of all the others and mindrape them Once again, you don't have anywhere near the reaction times you'll need, we're more powerful then you can comprehend, and all of your attacks wouldn't make us blink. We're not relying on tech. We simply detect where you are, and kill you.

Drain the life from your bodies. Turn off your powers. Banish you to the Phantom Zone.

Even if you believe our speeds are similar, Sage's computer mind and multitasking rapes... and we're better trained. And we're smarter. And even if you did get a shot off first, it would wash against our shields.

Originally posted by leonidas
my surest and undeniable advantage is time.

Smurph says:
You remember how you told me if I entered the battle small, the neutralizers would make me big, but as soon as they ended I would be small again?
Jamie says:
Instantly yes
Smurph says:
Would that then go for any change you made to yourself.... if Superman sundipped before, he would have that power back once the neutralizers ended?
Jamie says:
Yes

----------------------------------------

So, what Leo just admitted was his biggest advantage, is now, as I've shown, not his advantage at all.

He holds no advantages.

His bombs are a wash. His flagbearing character has nothing to support the feats he's been assigning it. His arguments against my character defeat themselves, and help me out.

I hold, by FAR the biggest power advantage, in addition to tactics, speed, versatility, and training.

Each attack that he could think of couldn't affect my shields. And he's provided no defense to the numerous ways I could take out his powers, and then his life.

He's simply relied on time and speed, which I've shown he doesn't have, and then attacked my plans, which I've shown is fruitless.

I have 12 HoM Wandas... he has a pack of overated speedsters with some bombs.

SMURPH WINS

all right, DON'T take wally's word for it, OR walter's. the only 'manipulating' i'm even ATTEMPTING is a straight speed steal (on-panel proof that savitar CAN do that -- stole speed from EVERY SPEEDSTER ON EARTH!) and speed SHARE, also which i've proven on panel:

http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ninjassa9.jpg

the blue lightning does and always has signified the presence of SF energy.

smurph seems to want you to think i'm creating constructs or something from SF energy. i'm merely lending and stealing speed. something it is quite clear i'm MORE than capable of doing and have done repeatedly this whole tournament.

judges be clear: he NEEDS you to think he's my equal in speed cuz he knows he's dead if not. i neutralize one of his guys and simultaneously steal the speed of his other guys before he can react. only he's provided ZERO evidence he can create tech to make him my equal. in fact NO ONE EVER HAS!

i am faster.
i attack first.
my first attack is all i need. once his speed is gone, he's dead.



true, throughout wally was terrified of savitar's power, but it's based on the fact that wally ADMITTED savitar was AS FAST AS HE WAS. BOTH reached the peak speed that CAN be reached -- both brushed the SF itself. both even ENTERED it, but only wally was able to come out again. any speed feat SHORT of entering the SF is therefore open to me to use.

vulcan's powerset just allows me even GREATER access and control of the SF.



let's review, shall we?

first, smurph wants to access some unnamed 'infinite source'. it appears to be the matrix, but then again, maybe it's not. the matrix is populated with SENTIENT beings that granted FS his powers initially and THAT is a big problem. then it seems it is given power by maya. and THAT is a big problem. now we learn it seems to be a STAR, and since there ARE no stars, THAT is a problem. he also says forget meggan if it's a star, his SUIT will power him up!!

so, during the course of this match, he went from infinitely powerful abstract, to . . . tech-provided sundipped. he's even gone so far as to say WITH OR WITHOUT DIETY, implying his OWN doubts about the character.

and he says I'VE been on the defensive?? my attack strategy has not varied for a moment since the confused opening! he's struggling to come up with ways to preserve his plan and finally resorts to the infamous -- "my guys are smart, they'll figure it out line!" heh

on top of that, he STILL doesn't know (nor do the writers, apparently . . .) what his power source is and is giving ME grief for trying to point out the flaws in ANY of the possible sources!! lolz

of course, sundipped FS wouldn't have all the fancy powers (see his OP) he granted himself since he wouldn't be an 'abstract' being anymore . . . specially since there is NO SUN PRESENT. and this has come up before -- our prep area IS the battlefield! so . . . no storing solar rad there either . . .



lolz

you misrepresent the point of my showing all these scans -- it is simply to reaffirm the exceedingly confusing nature of FS's source of power. again, smurph doesn't even know what he's trying to absorb anymore!! lol

and no matter what definition he chooses to believe, it has mucho problems with it!



meh, if that's what he said, that's fine. my reactions are still>>>>>>>than yours, i STILL steal your speed then mindrape you before your tech-assisted speed comes online. the same thing i said in every post prior to the last one. the added seconds would have been nice, but the split-second speed advantage i have might as well be days to me. my offensive plan has stayed consistent throughout. you've struggled with trying to salvage whatever you can of your initial plan, been forced to come up with this sundipped option and no clear source of power . . .

your strategy is an ill-defined trainwreck at this point.



i attack before the shields are raised, AM has NEVER showed anything CLOSE to being able to copy the powers of a race like the popuppians (seriously -- lolz ) and meggan is even MORE vulnerable to TP than FS! you want HER to be your defense against it?? if you are sundipped, you HAVE no 'infinite power' anyway, and NO suns either!! so . . . you're really just a shape-changing FS.

heh



sersi has NEVER survived anything CLOSE to that type of attack. she has to transmute all of her teammates and herself into superdense material to survive the sideffects of a galaxy-destroying attack!

this is a BIG BANG. seriously. i hope everyone gets exactly how much power that is. you know -- the SUM OF ALL ENERGY IN A UNIVERSE!!! intangibilty and adamantium won't be nearly enough protection. i said at the outset my guys know exactly how much energy is released. ONE bomb may be enough to wipe out the battlefield, but it doesn't matter as we remain safe behind our n-zone portals.



lol

speaking of no evidence -- note again that THROUGHOUT this match, smurph has never shown ANY evidence of this FTL tech that increases not only travel speed, but combat AND thinking speeds as well . . .

tech that is FAR slower than my own SF enhanced tech, and that i can transmute as quick as i steal his speed and mindrape him.

once his speed is gone, he has no more defenses and the match is over.



you mean sundipped-without-the-sun level . . . heh



i attack and am gone in picoseconds. you have tech increasing your speed. you have no proof ANY tech can make you NEARLY that fast. i am amped with SF to the point where i am as fast as can be without entering the SF. that includes all my tech and thoughts. you are sundipped without any suns and are in slow motion to me, regardless of your tech. i find YOU first, steal your speed and you die. but don't feel bad, i've been doing it all tournament.



find us how??
hit us us???



you keep SAYING you're smarter, but i've got ult reed AND 616 reed, along with doom and countless others to call upon. you have jor-el over me, but . . . so?




i said my biggest advantages were SPEED AND TIME. and while i may not have the seconds i thought i MIGHT have, i STILL have the clear speed advantage, which ALSO gives me the time advantage. you've yet to show any proof at all you are even CAPABLE of creating tech to amp your combat and thought speed to lightspeed, let alone beyond lightspeed (which would STILL be far slower than me . . .)



just the same ones i've held throughout.



bombs destroy him. the emperor is every bit as fast as i said he was. he doesn't even know where his power is coming from and went from infinite to sundipped, in a place where there IS no sun! heh

he will NOT have shared powersets with everyone, he will NOT have his uber shields at all. with his power source so uncertain, he's really got nothing definite AT ALL to throw at me.



if you call showing you have no idea where your power comes from, that you are now most likely sundipped and without access to a sun fruitless . . .

speed and time remain my advantages as they always have.

good match, smurph.

Wow, this is getting outrageous...

Great sigs.

so, match is officially over, correct . . .?

really fun match, smurph.

cheers

The sigs....crylaugh

Discussion is Over, The Judges Have Til Friday to render verdict, user with the majority of the votes wins, congratulations to the users for competing in the best tourney ever!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bribe Money is Non-Refundable.

Originally posted by Dr Hackenbush
the best tourney ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lulz

Originally posted by leonidas
so, match is officially over, correct . . .?

really fun match, smurph.

cheers It was awesome.

Seriously, epic.

Judges: Doctor Hackenbush, Newjak, Badabing, Ha-son, Batdude, Digimark007, and Illadelph.

I just was notified I'm a judge. I'll vote tomorrow.

I'm holding off on my vote because I don't want to directly or indirectly influence other's decisions with my long drawn out explanations.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I'm holding off on my vote because I don't want to directly or indirectly influence other's decisions with my long drawn out explanations.
Me too.

tommyface

Originally posted by Ha-Son
Me too.

tommyface Tommy = win

And yeah I'm doing the same as them

Originally posted by illadelph12
I'm holding off on my vote because I don't want to directly or indirectly influence other's decisions with my long drawn out explanations.

Way to stroke yourself there a bit ill. Most of the judges are tourney vets and informed comic forum members. I'm sure we can resist the urge to change our vote just because of your opinion.



Personally, I'm holding off because I've recently had to deal with reports, PMs, and disciplinary issues involving Smurph and others. My duties as a mod come first, but I often think they compromise my position as a supposedly unbiased judge. I'd like to think I can maintain objectivity, but can't ensure it. I've been considering dropping out entirely as a judge, though this has only been going on in the last 24 hours or so, so I haven't had much time to consider it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Personally, I'm holding off because I've recently had to deal with reports, PMs, and disciplinary issues involving Smurph and others. My duties as a mod come first, but I often think they compromise my position as a supposedly unbiased judge.
You poor thing, all that hard work and no reward. Here's a cookie.

http://i32.tinypic.com/5yge20.jpg

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Way to stroke yourself there a bit ill. Most of the judges are tourney vets and informed comic forum members. I'm sure we can resist the urge to change our vote just because of your opinion.



Personally, I'm holding off because I've recently had to deal with reports, PMs, and disciplinary issues involving Smurph and others. My duties as a mod come first, but I often think they compromise my position as a supposedly unbiased judge. I'd like to think I can maintain objectivity, but can't ensure it. I've been considering dropping out entirely as a judge, though this has only been going on in the last 24 hours or so, so I haven't had much time to consider it.

Not "stroking" myself Digi, I've just bared witness to it on a few previous occasions, and I've also witnessed so-called "vets" be lazy and just go along with whoever posted their judgment first. Not saying this illustrious group of judges would do such a thing, of course, but it's not without precedent, and with this being the finals, I don't want to say something in my decision that may be considered by another judge as a point they didn't think of themselves (which is why I said directly or indirectly).

Self gratification was not the motivation for my comment.

I do think very highly of myself, however.

The was intended to let on that it was a joke. Shouldn't have said anything, I guess. Though I think you're being a tad elitist toward your fellow judges there ill. Just because we don't type out novels doesn't mean we aren't thorough...we just don't announce it to everyone at least twice a tourney that we read every word in a battle.



Not sure what Ha-Son's post was intended as, but thatnks for the cookie.
...I was just explaining the situation, since I likely won't be able to vote. But with Red banned, I can't exactly tell anyone to get a replacement, which I may end up having to do on my own. Is newjak in charge as well still?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Not "stroking" myself Digi, I've just bared witness to it on a few previous occasions, and I've also witnessed so-called "vets" be lazy and just go along with whoever posted their judgment first. Not saying this illustrious group of judges would do such a thing, of course, but it's not without precedent, and with this being the finals, I don't want to say something in my decision that may be considered by another judge as a point they didn't think of themselves (which is why I said directly or indirectly).

Self gratification was not the motivation for my comment.

I do think very highly of myself, however. Yup because everyone cares what you think

Self-gratification is my motivation for comment.

Which one of my girls is gonna take the cup? (Spot the veiled memetastic reference)

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The was intended to let on that it was a joke. Shouldn't have said anything, I guess. Though I think you're being a tad elitist toward your fellow judges there ill. Just because we don't type out novels doesn't mean we aren't thorough...we just don't announce it to everyone at least twice a tourney that we read every word in a battle.



Not sure what Ha-Son's post was intended as, but thatnks for the cookie.
...I was just explaining the situation, since I likely won't be able to vote. But with Red banned, I can't exactly tell anyone to get a replacement, which I may end up having to do on my own. Is newjak in charge as well still?

Yeah, Newjak and Red are both coordinators of this thing.

And also don't trip, I didn't take offense or anything. It's damn near impossible to convey connotation online. I was just saying it wasn't an ego thing, it's just that this is the Finals and I don't want something I say to cause anything odd to occur.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yup because everyone cares what you think

Silence Goldbug!!!

Originally posted by illadelph12
Silence Goldbug!!! I may be Goldbug but you're Shitpiece

Originally posted by Newjak
I may be Goldbug but you're Shitpiece

Originally posted by illadelph12

Originally posted by illadelph12
Yeah, Newjak and Red are both coordinators of this thing.

And also don't trip, I didn't take offense or anything. It's damn near impossible to convey connotation online. I was just saying it wasn't an ego thing, it's just that this is the Finals and I don't want something I say to cause anything odd to occur.

Fair enough. Conscious of the final's importance, at least, which is good.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Self-gratification is my motivation for comment.

Which one of my girls is gonna take the cup? (Spot the veiled memetastic reference) gun4gun3

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Which one of my girls is gonna take the cup?

ahh, you silver-tongued devil, you say the sweetest things . . .

and with all the judges chatter, maybe one of you 'illustrious' personages might wanna go ahead and drop in vote at some point . . .? you know, if you're not too busy being illustrious . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
ahh, you silver-tongued devil, you say the sweetest things . . .

and with all the judges chatter, maybe one of you 'illustrious' personages might wanna go ahead and drop in vote at some point . . .? you know, if you're not too busy being illustrious . . .

Don't worry I'm working on it. I'm reading it now.

Originally posted by leonidas
ahh, you silver-tongued devil, you say the sweetest things . . .

and with all the judges chatter, maybe one of you 'illustrious' personages might wanna go ahead and drop in vote at some point . . .? you know, if you're not too busy being illustrious . . .

Dude, as if the battlefield wasn't crazy enough we have to muddle through all the amalgams, powers and claims made. durznuts
Originally posted by Newjak
Don't worry I'm working on it. I'm reading it now. Newjak reading. duriroll

Ok then first off I want to congratulate both people on a good fought match. I'm sorry about some of the details of the battlefield not being as thorough as they should have been.

Anyways unto the match. I've been sitting here trying to think how best to approach explaining my decision.

I decided I will start with Deity and Emperor Speed first, and take the arguments based on how powerful each one is.


Deity

Where to start....hmmm.... I don't believe this guy is nearly Solar or even approaching anything close. I'm sorry but I hear infinite called out way too much in comics. I need some good physical feats as to whether or not Firestorm would have access to something even approaching the levels you are describing. Problem is you didn't have any.

I though you overall plan was good with Megan and such. It's just that one little hump that I think made you fall short, cause I have to question that. I do believe Firestorm would be amped for this match but nothing I would say that would give him anything above Trans level power.

Emperor Speed

I think this is the first match I've judged where I feel this character was fully challenged. Most people would simply state they had a problem, then Leo would utter his power meshing line and it would stop. It didn't just vanish in this one therefore I must include them in my decision.

First off the idea Leo used is sound. It is obvious that his character does have great knowledge of Speed and the Speedforce. It also very true he has a decent energy manipulator. Two problems were raised with this though.

One is that yes despite his knowledge he never in a combat situation was shown to tap into the speed force the way Flash could. Having good knowledge on something doesn't mean you can manipulate it.

Leo often used the thought that well even though Savitar hadn't directly influenced, Vulcan's power and Savitar's knowledge would let him d it anyways.

This is the point where the argument generally fades away, even if I did have some problems with it. Smuprh though didn't let it in this fight. Therefore I am forced to finally ask myself. Can Vulcan really do this. The answer I have come up with is no. Leo posed no good evidence showing that Vulcan can manipulate this kinda energy or force. I'm sorry but Omega level is not gonna cut it.

I still though believe that he will help some just not on the level you want.


Ok then so after this point my next move was going to revisit prep time and see how I felt my verdicts on the characters would effect both's prep. THIS IS THE POINT I STARTED TO HIT MY HEAD ON THE TABLE.

Well just like I did up above and go over both's.


Smurph's

I'm sorry but you got hit extremely hard in this one. Without the near abstract level I find most of your prep useless. I do think you could pull off a number of the tech, like PZ projectors, and transmutation side of things. Still I think you were really handicapped going in without your high power level.

So over all I feel you start off kinda where you were at resources wise but to a much, much lower degree.

Leo's

Despite me thinking he isn't as fast as he wants people to believe, there is no denying Leo show cased that Emperor Speed still have some juice to him. Enough that I believe the more intrinsic part of plans are go. Like the bombs, and the Adaptoids.

Seeing how that was what most of his plan centered on anyways I feel Leo started off as strong as before.

Now unto the battle.

I do feel that Deity could manipulate enough of the Big Bang energy to shield himself from being absolutely killed. I don't think the rest of his team fares as well.

The clincher for me though was telepathy. Leo contentiously presented it as a viable option for defeating Smurph. Even showing scans where Firestorm was dominated by Thinker. You never really countered this IMO to the point where I was comfortable in saying it wasn't something I should take into account.



So then I vote:

LEO

I was going to vote Smurph, but then I saw newjak's post....

shifty











continuing to abstain, btw

doh

Well, since it looks like no other judges are going to vote any time soon, and not to draw this out any longer than is necessary, I guess I'll post a "concise" version of my judgment.

Reason (semi concise version): I felt Leo's argument against Deity was lacking due to his attempts to hammer home the points of Firestorm somehow not being allowed more power by Maya, the various consciousnesses within the Matrix somehow becoming an issue without precedent, and FS being powered by the Sun in an attempt to undermine Firestorm's powers, then Leo arguing against Meggan being able to handle Firestorm's powers in spite of the fact Meggan and Firestorm are amalgamated, meaning Firestorm would still be controlling his own powers, Meggan would just alleviate his physical limitations and also provide an amp to his elemental abilities .

In spite of all of the supposition and arguments made in regards to the two big guns (Emperor Speed and Deity), the main issue I found was that Smurph's team made a b-line out of the prison cube whereas Leo's team just sat and waited for the 10 minutes to expire, which gives me reason to believe Smurph would strike first despite the fact that Leo is likely immensely faster.

I felt Newjak needed to be a bit more in depth in his descriptions of the battlefield's properties and that led to a lot of the prep being tossed out, but he did actually specify that both teams were at opposite ends of the moon sized prison cubes:



and that the prisons were analogous to a giant Borg Cube:



And Borg Cube hulls are exposed to space and are not solid as shown in this image:

http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Borg_cube.jpg

Newjak didn't specify the location of access ports, docking bays, etc., or give a detailed layout of the prison, so it's pretty much a guessing game as to whether Smurph's team of superheroes could escape a defunct and completely unlocked prison in 10 minutes, but I believe he likely could given that Newjak placed both teams at the ends/edges/outskirts of the cube and not in the middle (assuming that was his actual intent. He didn't specify...).

So, my simplified vote is based on the fact that I do believe a group of superheroes could escape an abandoned, unmanned, unguarded, defunct, unlocked prison with a titanium hull that is constantly being bombarded by shards of adamantium and vibranium traveling at 3/4s the speed of light within 10 minutes, and I also believe Leo's team could do the same, but he never stated that his team would attempt to do so, much to my bewilderment, and just waited for the time to expire, during which Smurph could kill Leo's depowered team before time expired.

There were a lot of other things I took into consideration as well, but I'm trying not to be too long winded (though I already have been).

My Vote: Smurph

Okay, I read through this thing several times. Both teams were fast, powerful, teched up, had huge arsenals, p zone projectors, n zone projectors, cosmic awareness in some fashion, hyper thought, etc, etc, etc. Both Leo and Smurph had to amend their initial prep and that didn't seem to matter much. Both stuck to their plans.

These matches can be difficult to judge, let alone participate. I'm not going to explain my decision point by point. It's after midnight here and this match was hell to read through. I found both teams surprisingly even. But one reoccurring thought in my head was Smurph's team seemed better shielded for any attack. I bought his abilities to transmute energy and matter. Whether bombs exploding inside, outside with the crazy battlefield, energy weapons or TP, I believe Smurph's team had the edge.

Well played considering the battlefield.

My vote goes to Smurph.

Doctor Hackenbush, Ha-son, Batdude and Digimark007, both Leo and Smurph have done a very good job in this tourny and deserve a decision. If you can't or won't vote then please contact one of the tourny hosts so a replacement can be found.

Red's been banned and I already talked to newjak. Finding a replacement is hard, because nobody wants to get thrown into the finals without having followed the tourney, since we 7 were the primary judges throughout its entirety.

But I've explained myself in brief on this thread, and at length via PM. If anyone wishes to here my full justification, PM me. But I do apologize to all involved, as I realize the importance of the finals, and also the importance of prompt judging. But while I trust myself to be unbiased in any circumstance and play no favorites, I feel compromised as a judge through recent events as a mod, which must come first. So my continued non-vote is out of respect for the participants, not out of neglect, and comes again with my sincere apologies.

I will continue to loook for a suitable and willing replacement. Any help would also be appreciated, but is not expected.

Minus Digi and Red leaves 5 Judges. It's up to Jason and Batdude now (best of 5).

I found a replacement within the last few hours. Scoobless. I assume no one will object. He's as seasoned as tourney vets come.

And Red's ban is only a temp. We're still at 7.

Has Scoobless been following the match?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Has Scoobless been following the match?

As much as anyone. When I PMd him initially he had read the opening few posts just on his own.

But anyone who versed in tourneys can come in, maybe ask a question or two to get things straight, then make an informed decision. Hell, I've only judged 1 other match this tourney. Passively following the rest, but I haven't been reading every match. I don't feel like that hamstrings me at all, so long as I understand the format. But as long as he understands the rules (he does) there's no reason any of us with ample comic knowledge can't be a reliable judge. I wouldn't have gotten him as a replacement if I didn't think he'd be fine.

Nah, I have no doubts of Scoob. Just wondered if he's been following this thing because I haven't seen him around actively in a while.

Red was unbanned as of yesterday...

Congrats to both participants. This was a really tough match to judge.

Leo's prep was superior, but he lost major ground by not being able to support all of his plans for Emperor Speed, and most of his arguments concerning Deity seemed loose and largely based on wording.

I found it feasible that Smurph received enough power in order to at least trump Leo and negate most of the attacks quite well, and Sage's mind gave Smurph the quickdraw advantage (in addition to possibly a base speed advantage through kryptonian ability and super tech, not even approaching speed manipulation) that he could use to pull off the win.

I think Smurph's defenses are overall superior and that Leo's is lacking. However, Leo's strat was good because it was more grounded in fact than Smurph, but Eel's risk payed off in the end.

My Vote: Smurph

Oh my f*cking God @ how hard this match was to judge. Seriously, you both did a fantastic job, and nobody came out looking "superior" in this debate. Awesome.

Anyway, on with the show...

The idea of deity was a little far-fetched in my opinion. However, I get the concept, in theory. And in theory, it was a rather good plan... But there's one major flaw with it: Firestorm's power, or however much he chooses to use, is based on his WILL POWER. He has "unlimited power" in the same fashion that a Green Lantern has "unlimited power"- which is based on will. The idea of his power being based on how much the human body can withstand made me chuckle a bit. In the first place, a human body can't handle absorbing nukes, let alone all the other crazy shit Firestorm has been shown to do. Durability is not an issue in this case. Unless Meggan can amp a person's will power to "infinite levels," I'd say the idea of "Deity" is a bust.

Now, on to Emperor Speed... Leo, I strongly feel that you were overestimating the speeds that Savitar is capable of. He isn't > instantaneous speed.

However, in terms of evidence provided, you proved to me that Emperor Speed is faster (Vulcan withstanding... it was really a moot point all match) which is all that matters.

Leo has stuck firmly to his guns throughout the entire match. Smurph on the other hand, has had to slightly alter his attack plan at key points during the match. This shows me that leo was more on the offensive than Smurph.

Overall, I'd say that after looking at the prep plans, Smurph relied too heavily on the concept of Deity, which I really didn't go for. Leo on the other hand proved he had the speed advantage (at least in my mind) and also showed telepathic vulnerability on the side of Smurph's team. And while the big bang blasts MIGHT not work, I could see Leo's other strategies working, however.

My vote goes to: leonidas

Congratulations to both on making it this far.

Ok, where to begin, I'd like to thank the participants for being patient with my voting, for I was banned for a period of three days, for some reason couldn't wait until at least saturday...*ahem* I would have voted sooner, but I had to reread the thread once more simply for the fact that it had been 3 days since I last read it, albeit, not the whole thing at the time. I'd like to thank all the participants who saw the tourney out, for truly this Magical Mystery Tourney was truly greater, magical-er, and Mysterious-er than all it's tourney Predecessors(And I surely hope I'm not banned/warned for that claim haw-som ) NOW, onto reasoning of who earns my vote, for truly, this wasn't an easy match, and I've taken a great amount of time to choose my vote delicately, for it decides who might win(Smurph) and who might be one step closer into tieing it(Leo). For as it stands right now, the tourney is 3-1, with several judges not yet voting.

First off, Leo, your prep was mind blowing, it was some of your rebuttals to smurph's posts that might have taken longer in my judging, because there were quite a few grammatically and spelling errors. But your arguments were good, and convincing. Your big bang argument was convincing, and I was more convinced over your argument of Smurph not really being able to contain it, than I was of his talking about avoiding it, and such. All in all, you're a convincing debater, but alas, so is Smurph. Smurph's biggest advantage was the telepathy of Jor-el and Reed Richards, and it was increasingly difficult for me to find ways to see how Leo could win...

But My decision and why.


I vote for: Leonidas

It was far from an easy decision, I had to reread the second page a few times, but it came to the point where I felt that Smurph was scrambling a bit to come up with an argument to some of Leo's points, and they felt more forced and condescending than Leo's who rebutted to each one of smurph's claims, with a scan or an actual point that justified himself. By the way, it was cute that you both kept trying to convince the judges through your posts. Smurph your prep was straight up towered by Leo's, and it hurt you from the getco, now granted your argument was phenomenal. The Big Bang Leo's teams presented absolutely wrecked Smurph, and also, there were arguments Leo presented that I couldn't help but think that you intentionally avoided, IE Firestorm being mind raped...Deity didn't sell me, you invested way to much into the concept, and frankly it might have hurt you in the long run...Leo, you were a bit to much of a salesman with Salvitar...but you proved to me that you were faster, and Smurph didn't prove to me that he could stop that.

OK, to end this rant, it was impossibly time-consuming to read, you two are among the pick of the liter of KMC's debaters. Congratulations on making it this far...

looks like Batdude posted...


3-3

How Epic!

Aww feck.

*goes to read over the match and make notes*

I'll vote later tonight .... or tomorrow at the latest.

Originally posted by Dr Hackenbush
it was some of your rebuttals to smurph's posts that might have taken longer in my judging, because there were quite a few grammatically and spelling errors.

Originally posted by leonidas

Damn, how many times are you going to change your name Smurph?

Originally posted by leonidas


i change my vote.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Damn, how many times are you going to change your name Smurph? Does KMC have a limit?

Originally posted by Dr Hackenbush
i change my vote.

a dude can get banned for that . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
a dude can get banned for that . . .



If we were voting on likability, you would have lost faster than Newjak in a testosterone contest.

damn, that's fast.

durimshot

Originally posted by Dr Hackenbush
If we were voting on likability, you would have lost faster than Newjak in a testosterone contest. You know it's sad but true

Originally posted by Scoobless
Aww feck.

*goes to read over the match and make notes*

I'll vote later tonight .... or tomorrow at the latest. gun4uhuhgun3

Ok, I Came into this quite late so cut me a little slack about the time it's taken me to vote.

On the plus (and possibly minus) side, I haven't read any of the previous matches, draft threads or discussion thread, so my decision is based entirely on this one thread.

First thing I'd like to mention was a part of Smurph's prep that made me laugh (but was eventually dropped) Anti-Metal weapons along with adamantium room and armour ... this amused me as your suits would dissolve and the cannon would fall through the floor before you could use it (and would destroy any devices you brought that contained metals)

Secondly, Both teams claimed to have Reed Richards ... wtf is that about?

Anyway, I have no intention of dragging this on for too long.

Smurph: I wasn't convinced of the Deity = infinite power thing, so I didn't believe the claims of power = to Solar (not that I've read anything with him in it, so it wouldn't influence me too much anyway)

Leo: Your N Zone power draining phase space bomb ... it wouldn't work, Ult Reed knows about this and has been trying to cure the Thing for a long time, if he could easily select a phase state for him he would have done it long ago.

Smurph: Using "the red" to copy popuppian power (sounds like something from Scooby Doo) There's no proof that the red even exists in Marvel, if it did you'd still need proximity (afaik) and the popuppian home world was destroyed by Galactus which might further impede this idea.

Leo: Adaptoid formula? this wasn't backed up by anything I've seen.

Smurph: Deity grants everyone uber powers ... how? if Firestorms body couldn't contain the powers you wanted, why would anyone else's?


Obviously there was a LOT of speculation about how powers might mesh and how prep & tech might work, quite a bit of which just didn't seem feasible to me.

Leo's main character Emp Speed seemed much more likely to work out than Deity, even if he wouldn't have complete control of the speed force, he seems easily capable of granting speed, which is why I think Leo's team would be able to transport their bombs before Smurph's team could react.





So my vote goes to Leo for having the slightly less unbelievable prep & plan.


Well done to both, no hard feelings Smurph (or whatever the hell your screen name is by the time you read this)




One last thing. I've had my own share of almost completely unbelievable tourney plans, I now have a little more understanding for the judges who voted against me in those tourneys .... separating the genius from the ludicrous takes a while .... and sometimes you're just weighing the difference between two sets of ludicrousitynessosciousness.

Congratulations to leonidas on becoming this tourney's winner.

Originally posted by batdude123
Congratulations to leonidas on becoming this tourney's winner.
Congrats Leo. You both are awesome.

What is this shit?
Magical Tourney? Wow. That's gay.

Leonidas and Smurph ride a magical schoolbus that sends them to Teletubbyland.

Leo wins the match by a vote of 4-1

Good job to both people, they put on one hell of a show.

Originally posted by Newjak
Leo wins the match by a vote of 4-1

Good job to both people, they put on one hell of a show. I thought he won by 4 - 3?

Originally posted by Starscream M
I thought he won by 4 - 3?

He did.

Math isn't Newjak's strong suit...

shhh . . .

just humor him.

and . . . i won -- cool!

muchos gracias to all who followed and especially to the judges for slogging through all that. it really was a blast.

Congrats Leo.

Congrats Leo.

Originally posted by Boy Blue
Congrats Leo.

cheers

ps-now i can finally change that sig!

Originally posted by illadelph12
He did.

Math isn't Newjak's strong suit... Hey considering I wrote that at 4:30 in the morning be grateful that is all I messed up

Cause in my groggy state of mind I could have easily declared Smurph the winner instead.

Originally posted by Newjak
Hey considering I wrote that at 4:30 in the morning be grateful that is all I messed up

Cause in my groggy state of mind I could have easily declared Smurph the winner instead.

Sure, "Groggy"...

Oh, and congrats on another tourney win brotha.

Especially since it wasn't B-Dub.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Sure, "Groggy"...

Originally posted by leonidas
cheers

ps-now i can finally change that sig! I'm sure you know from our PMs, but I'll just say that I think the best man won here, and that I'm proud enough to have reached runner up (and a 3-4 SPLIT IN THE FINALS!).

So, now that I have a moment, I wanna thank Newjak for being the tourney savior and making every single match memorable of what was in the end a fantastic tournament.

All the judges should pat themselves on the back, for putting their effort into this and diligently reading through our pages of essay posts.

And a final thanks to Leo for making the final match exhilirating and a worthy end to the tourney. Surviving that and giving the judges something to think about after a match against Leo is more than I credited myself with prior to this tourney.

Anyways... woot.

And Leo, I hope you're entering Delph's league in August-October.