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some villians included too. your choices are as follows:

cyclops (no omni blast)
wolverine
beast
colossus
shadowcat
gambit
nightcrawler
havok (can he omni blast? if he can, he can't here)
pyro
pyslocke
sabertooth
toad
warpath
x-23
emma frost (no mind powers, just diamond form)

now, the point of this isn't to take out the whole army or survive. the point is to prevent the army from getting inside helms deep. which 3 x-men or villians would have the best chance at stopping the army from getting inside?

Havok and Colossus.

Havok can deal out damage for as long as possible, and has the best ranged attacks of those offered.

Colossus is a beast and never tires.

-wolverine obviously
-colossus obviously
-gambit, coupled with legolas's seemingly infinite supply of arrows...
air-raid any one

Yeah, there's a few here who wouldn't be harmed at all, though they'd have a hard time keeping the attackers out of the castle just from the sheer numbers. Depending on the castle's size relative to Havok's blast radius, they might or might not succeed in keeping it from getting breached.

As Smurph said, Havok and Colossus are the most logical choices. NC'er would be amusing to watch in such a setting.

ah, but the three x-men you choose are by themselves. they get no army to back them up.

so while wolverine and colossus would be good choices to kill alot of enemies, would they be the best at keeping the orcs out of helms deep? neither of them have ranged attacks.

Havok, Colossus and Gambit.

Logan, Creed, and Remy. Logan and Creed would be hard pressed to get pass, and they can kill quickly while healing from any damage taken quickly also. They wouldn't need to hide from arrow volleys or worry about being killed for the most part. Remy would be used for long range. Charge up anything lying around and just toss it out or at whoever may have gotten pass Logan and Creed.

yeah, havok, colossus and gambit would be a good team. personally, i might replace gambit with cyke.

pyro could use the orcs own flame's against them, all he needs is a little protection from the arrows and maybe a psi-boost.

-psylocke, mind links and amps pyro's concentration.
-pyro, he can just fix a ring of fire around helms deep
-cyke or colossus for protection from arrows.

Cyclops. Though I take it Omni-blast means taking off his visor? Still from the walls he can keep one shotting enemies. Plus he could co-ordinate everyone in Helm's Deep.

Colossus can go out side the walls and stomp anybody there.

Shadowcat. Going by recent feats she could probably just turn the entirety of Helm's Deep intangible.

yeah, no visor removal for cyke. and for the sake of the thread we'll say shadowcat isn't allowed to make the entirety of helms deep intangible. lol, good point on that though.

After further review...

Havok, Colossus and Cyclops.

Havok's power output makes him an ace choice.

Colossus never tires, and is pretty fast in armored form. He'll never be shot down, and can one shot anything that the enemy has to offer.

Then it came down to Scott or Pyro... but Pyro's a dumbass, and Scott's ridiculously superior when it comes to tactics, in addition to having far better team work with Havok and Colossus. And it power output isn't any lower, though has the disadvantage of not being able to catch on other things like fire can.

So, Havok/Scott/Colossus.

Havok does get tired eventually from expending his power. Just wanted to point that out. Cyclops does as well, for that matter. I think Shadowcat is indispensable, since only Emma and Colossus are immune to the stray arrow, falling debris, etc.

I'll go with Cyclops, Colossus and Shadowcat. Cyclops blasts are much more precise and he'd be a better leader.

I'd choose Wolverine before Shadowcat. Kitty's limited, and Wolverine's pretty much immune to arrows and such as well. Plus, Logan can fight for far longer than Shadowcat with out tiring, and can take out enemies faster and more efficiently.

if pyro creates a fire dragon or........OH SHIT THIS IS BRILLIANT a perfect facsimile of sauron's eye, the moral of the army will drop considerably or they will just high tail it and run.

Havok, Pyro, Cyclops.

While people like Wolverine and Colossus can go at it all day, they just arent going to cause sufficient damage taking the orcs out one at a time. Pyro is actually my prime choice since he won't run out of energy. Although I think Cyclops and Havok will get the job done before they run out of juice.

gambit the archer

colossus the melee brute

havok to cause...well...

Cyclops, Wolverine, and Colossus.

Cy would devastate any orc in sight,
Wolverine would go for fatal strikes all day.
Colossus would tank the hell out of anyone nearby.

Collossus. Would not be harmed at all in this fight, and strong enough to, if he uses his strength wisely, take out large groups of Orcs with thrown items. Also in melee will kill all.

Gambit. Excellent archer obviously. I assume he has never ending ammo like Legolas lol.

Pyro. Come on, giant flame dragon ftw.

Wolverine would be my fist choice.

He's by far the better fighter, and unless Colossus, he can't die. Plus, he really doesn't tire, thanks to the HF.
Clossus is a good choice, but a poor in comparaison of Wolverine, who have proved on feat able to kick the collective ass of some thousand of Hand Ninjas. Plus, if he goes bersek, it would sucks for the Orc. I would put him on the bridge.

Cyke is my second choice. Good at hand to hand, plus, he's a good markmanship. A laser travel faster that a card.

And my third choice would be Colossus. Not as good as Wolverine, but he would be the back-up if Wolverine begin to become overwhelm, or if some orcs enter in the Helm-Deep.

Melee fighters arent going to cut it guys. There are thousands of orcs, I'm sure Wolverine/Colossus could kill all of them eventually, but he aint going to stop them all from invading Helms Deep.

Energy projection is the only way... I mean you could take out hundreds, and maybe thousands (pyro's flame) at a time with energy blasts since they are all crowded together, its a no-brainer.

Originally posted by Placidity
Melee fighters arent going to cut it guys. There are thousands of orcs, I'm sure Wolverine/Colossus could kill all of them eventually, but he aint going to stop them all from invading Helms Deep.

Energy projection is the only way... I mean you could take out hundreds, and maybe thousands (pyro's flame) at a time with energy blasts since they are all crowded together, its a no-brainer.

But human flesh don't stop an arrow to enter your skull. And doesn't prevent the monstrous number of invaders at the door.

Cyclops and Havok stall while Nightcrawler retrieves Sauron to use as a hostage. Cake walk.


...the Uruk-Hai DO care about Sauron right??

sauron is just an eye..how could u use that as a hostage??

Gambit doesn't really need arrows to be pretty damn effective. Sand, rocks etc all work fine. Pouring oil and setting it ablaze to form a moat of sorts should be the first thing the three do, with Havok and Gambit killing orcs at range. Both have pretty good reflexes, especially the latter, so I don't expect an arrow to hit them easily. Colossus simply acts as a physical barrier to prevent them from breaching the main door.

I assume this is the movie version of the battle. The book version was nowhere as fleshed out, and I suspect the scale was smaller.

I'm going to go with Pyro, for the flame manipulation, and Colossus and Gambit. Colossus will find large objects, Gambit will charge them up, then they nuke the whole place to oblivion.

Definitely Cyclops and Havok for the reasons stated above. For the third one, Pyro.

You have to remember, the uruk hai were firing very few arrows, and I really don't think stray arrows and falling debris would be such a problem given the fact that the enemy forces would be annihilated in a matter of minutes...

Wolverine, Collosus and Cyke. I was gonna go for Pyro but he could get killed by a stray arrow or something, hes just physically not that tough if he gets killed its a liability for the other two.

Colossus to hold the Gate.

Cyclops or Havok on the Wall

Wolverine would be thrown into Sarumans army to kill as fast as possible.

All energy users would have some safety behind the walls. Plus, these orcs aren't exactly marksmen. There all pretty much cannon fodder. So Chances of getting hit arent that big, especially if you relocate after every few blasts.

I like to see night crawler and wolverine the battle the most, but there not the most effective.

havok, cyclopes and gambit would be more effective

Havok, Pyro/Colossus and Pyslocke/Gambit

To win without any trouble the Havok Pyro & Colossus

To make it fun I would pick Wolverine,Beast & X-23

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I like to see night crawler and wolverine the battle the most, but there not the most effective.

havok, cyclopes and gambit would be more effective

Good point, since time is not one their side, I'd pick Havok over Wolverine.

- Cyclops on ladder duty
- Havok on the bridge entance
- Colossus near the water entrance

Originally posted by psycho gundam
-wolverine obviously
-colossus obviously
-gambit, coupled with legolas's seemingly infinite supply of arrows...
air-raid any one

Correct.

Colossus, Havok & Wolverine.

Originally posted by Placidity
All energy users would have some safety behind the walls. Plus, these orcs aren't exactly marksmen. There all pretty much cannon fodder. So Chances of getting hit arent that big, especially if you relocate after every few blasts.

...but there are 10,000 Uruk-hai as i recall from the movie. I dont think it'd be that easy to dodge arrows like that.

also, do the x-men get the human and elf forces that lego, ara and gimli had in the movie? if so, you can solve the pyro problem by sticking a few guard on him.

Originally posted by Icarus II
...but there are 10,000 Uruk-hai as i recall from the movie. I dont think it'd be that easy to dodge arrows like that.

also, do the x-men get the human and elf forces that lego, ara and gimli had in the movie? if so, you can solve the pyro problem by sticking a few guard on him.

Out of them I didn't see even one fifth being archers so...I doubt there were more than 1000 archers max.

Either way, with his visor off, cyke would destroy any arrow coming his way, same for havok with his blasts...

Pyro doesn't need to see what he's doing directly afaik so he could chill behind some wall.

Havok, Cyclops, and Psylocke.

Havok and Cyclops pick off the Urukai while Psylocke redirects every arrow the Urukai fire at them. Then relieves the Uruks of their weapons and uses them against the Urukai.

Originally posted by Icarus II
...but there are 10,000 Uruk-hai as i recall from the movie. I dont think it'd be that easy to dodge arrows like that.


Psylocke can redirect the arrows back at the Uruks.

don't get why any one is picking colossus he would not be very effective

Originally posted by Battlehammer
don't get why any one is picking colossus he would not be very effective

Well, they could throw him down, and he could just start tearing Uruks apart, but I agree he's not the best choice.

The best three choices are, as I stated: Cyclops, Havok, and Psylocke.

Honorable mention: Gambit

Originally posted by Battlehammer
don't get why any one is picking colossus he would not be very effective Well because he could block a doorway and no one is moving him.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well because he could block a doorway and no one is moving him.
...............all they have to do is go around him............making him utterly useless.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
...............all they have to do is go around him............making him utterly useless. Yea, there isn't that much room, do you remember the movie?

Originally posted by emporerpants
some villians included too. your choices are as follows:

cyclops (no omni blast)
wolverine
beast
colossus
shadowcat
gambit
nightcrawler
havok (can he omni blast? if he can, he can't here)
pyro
pyslocke
sabertooth
toad
warpath
x-23
emma frost (no mind powers, just diamond form)

now, the point of this isn't to take out the whole army or survive. the point is to prevent the army from getting inside helms deep. which 3 x-men or villians would have the best chance at stopping the army from getting inside?
3 of them?
Havok, Colossus, Warpath.
Havok would tear apart most the Uruk Hai army by himself, Colossus alone with some hand claps and his bare fist would do the same.Warpath at his old power levels was a beast, now despite being less powerful he could surely do high damage considering he can also fly and has superspeed.Hell, Gimly and Aragorn alone who are nowhere powerful as those 3 X-Men were able to take down all those on the bridge.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, there isn't that much room, do you remember the movie?
yes and have read the book many many times. there is a lot of places for people to get around him. the only palces he might be effective is on the bridge and even then there jsut so many better options.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes and have read the book many many times. there is a lot of places for people to get around him. the only palces he might be effective is on the bridge and even then there jsut so many better options.

The bridge was the reason they were overrun at least one of the main reasons, and the book doesn't really matter to this thread.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
if pyro creates a fire dragon or........OH SHIT THIS IS BRILLIANT a perfect facsimile of sauron's eye, the moral of the army will drop considerably or they will just high tail it and run.

Originally posted by Mindset
The bridge was the reason they were overrun at least one of the main reasons, and the book doesn't really matter to this thread.
oh no no no no. I talking about a different bridge. not to huge one that got blown up. I ment the one leading to the main doors. there no way colossus could effectivly defend the large bridge he far to slow.


there jsut way more people who are far more effective in this scenerio.

Truth be told I see Pyro as being the most effective in this particular scenario. ALL armies carry torches and nothing can top the effectiveness of playing upon a living creature's primal fear of fire for dispersing large groups. 10 bucks says he'd have the army running home in terror of something like a Demon construct within a half an hour.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Truth be told I see Pyro as being the most effective in this particular scenario. ALL armies carry torches and nothing can top the effectiveness of playing upon a living creature's primal fear of fire for dispersing large groups. 10 bucks says he'd have the army running home in terror of something like a Demon construct within a half an hour. yup, moral is a huge element to warfare and a flame dragon spawned from the torch's of the orcs will drop moral like it was attached to a lead weight.

I'd go with Cyclops, Havok, and Pyro. Pyro would absolutely wreak destruction on the army with all the torches they carry. Cyclops and Havok would have no problem taking down the trolls and any Uruk-hai who manage to escape the fire.

oh yeah and i would replace wolverine for sabretooth, creed would have an orgasm killing all the orcs since this is the first time that he would be allowed to murder to his heart's content without reprocussions.

in fact he might over time take over a large portion of middle earth, he is suited for that kind of time period. planet creed anyone?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
don't get why any one is picking colossus he would not be very effective
Ahem, boulder nukes with Gambit.

Nightcrawler would be fun to watch, teleporting the ladders out from udner the invaders while they try to climb
pyro or havok could probably do best against big numbers, since they have the range, cyke to, but w/ out his omni blast hes got a pretty narrow beam

but if magneto was available, he'd massacre them all
quicksilver too

How well did Gimli do in the movie? They cant even hurt Colossus and he doesnt tire. He will do great as a close up fighter and is far from slow.

I'd go for the Colossus, Gambit, Wolverine combo. The boulder-nukes would wreak havoc among the tightly packed orcs while Wolverine could hold the bridge. No orc will get past him! They would likely turn tails and run from him.

Honorable mention: Pyro (fire dragon FTW)

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
How well did Gimli do in the movie? They cant even hurt Colossus and he doesnt tire. He will do great as a close up fighter and is far from slow. pretty much. whatever gimli did, colossus can do 200X better.

-the gate crasher bomb: pushed back, thrown away, broken before fuse gets lit, the handlers beaten to death, or the explosion itself gets blocked by colossus himself.

-nothing in middle-earth is a tenth as strong as he is, dryads (or whatever the tree guys are called) included.

-far faster and agile than anyone on the fellowship.

-practically invulnerable to everything in that world.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Truth be told I see Pyro as being the most effective in this particular scenario. ALL armies carry torches and nothing can top the effectiveness of playing upon a living creature's primal fear of fire for dispersing large groups. 10 bucks says he'd have the army running home in terror of something like a Demon construct within a half an hour.
edit: I just remebered I think some of those orcs were said to have no fear ermm

Originally posted by george '06
Nightcrawler would be fun to watch, teleporting the ladders out from udner the invaders while they try to climb

Nah, Blink would be funnier.......

Its actually quite funy because I can picture it in my head.

cyclops{less flexible but more range and power and precision than havok, plus better hand to hand and good leader, great long and shirt range destructive power and can shoot down magical flying creatures and missile like objects as well as dish major damage against advancing forces, also optic blasts dont tire him like plasma blasts from havok}

wolwerine{best berserker, healing factor will always keep him up and adamantium skeleon will provide resiliance to edged weapons, plus uber cutting claws make him the best close range engaging choice, also he hardly tires}

nightcrawler{amazing athlete/agile/swordsman to go up against swords, has spatial awareness and stealth and teleportation can precisely take out high priority targets and multiple targets out of brawling range as well as war engines etc and can almost never be targetted himself}

bump

Good thread.

I'd go with Colossus for the pure physical strength. He could bulldoze into armies of Uruk-Hai and knock them straight dead.

Wolverine for the quick slice and dicing. He could cut them up faster than they could swing a sword. He could just run along the top of Helms Deep killing the Uruks as they tried to climb over.**

I'd like to have Beast as a 3rd but you need range to balance it out so I would choose Cyclops.

**If Cyclops doesn't destroy the ladders before that.

Beast would probably get slain by a single Uruk

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Beast would probably get slain by a single Uruk

Beast would be slain by Colossus falling on him.

'Oh no, tovarisch!!!'

can nightcrawler just drop off stuff in Limbo as he passes through?

I saw that people weren't picking Pyro because he'd be vulnerable to a stray arrow. Wouldn't the same apply to anyone without massive durability or healing (ie the Summers bros)?

Crossbows don't fire arrows.

Nightcrawler.

Just him. He can tp hoards into mount doom before they know what hit them.

Originally posted by cdtm
Nightcrawler.

Just him. He can tp hoards into mount doom before they know what hit them.

...

1) He can't teleport so far.

2) It would exhaust the shit out of him, if he did so many jumps in the row with the "passengers". Hell, it'd kill him.

3) His bamfs aren't instantaneous, plenty of time to take him down.

Especially considering the number of times he'd need to repeat them to beat the vast distance between Helm's Deep and Mt. Doom.

Throw Wolverine out there and he cuts people up.
Have Gambit and Colossus hanging back while Colossus hucks massive pieces of charged rocks at orcs.

Colossus could also reinforce walls or create vast pits just outside them.

I mean he'd die in the attack, but he could do change the battlefield enough to put a stop to things.

A scenerio like you, you want someone like Nitro or Ice Man.

But I guess the point is no area attacks.

The Wolverine types, then. They could fight for days, and go through pretty much anything.



Just noticed Pyro is here, which means area attack bombs.

The Helms Deep wall, including the roundish citadel wall looks to be around 1.5 to 2.5 times the length of a football field. As much as Wolverine doesn't tire or Colossus doesn't get injured, how are two human-sized melee fighters going to be effective at covering such a large front? The sheer number of Uruk-hai would easily dog pile on top of Logan; or Piotr will become waist deep in dead orcs, further limiting his movement.

Shadowcat, Nightcrawler, and Pyro then.

Pyro sets up walls of flame, while the other two set up oil and torch's around choke points, and then immediately take out the leaders (Doesn't matter how big an army is, without leadership. Death of leaders end wars.)

Originally posted by gauntlet o doom
The Helms Deep wall, including the roundish citadel wall looks to be around 1.5 to 2.5 times the length of a football field. As much as Wolverine doesn't tire or Colossus doesn't get injured, how are two human-sized melee fighters going to be effective at covering such a large front? The sheer number of Uruk-hai would easily dog pile on top of Logan; or Piotr will become waist deep in dead orcs, further limiting his movement.

Colossus swings Logan like a bat.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Colossus swings Logan like a bat.

A flaming bat, if Pyro's there.

Originally posted by gauntlet o doom
The Helms Deep wall, including the roundish citadel wall looks to be around 1.5 to 2.5 times the length of a football field. As much as Wolverine doesn't tire or Colossus doesn't get injured, how are two human-sized melee fighters going to be effective at covering such a large front? The sheer number of Uruk-hai would easily dog pile on top of Logan; or Piotr will become waist deep in dead orcs, further limiting his movement. It'd take an awful lot of bodies to impede Colossus' movement.

That being said, what happens when Colossus climbs up that mountain and chucks boulders down? Gambit charged explosions that create massive craters some ways away from the walls?

What happens when Wolverine heats up his claws enough to cause 1st degree burns to decapitated bodies?

Also Wolverine is way faster than anything in LOTR and could bub snikt and leap over bodies fast enough to never be gang raped. Even if buried, he'd need a heck of a lot of bodies to keep him down for long considering he can cut through bodies like butter and he can move a couple tons with his entire body.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Colossus swings Logan like a bat.

Originally posted by cdtm
A flaming bat, if Pyro's there.

Claremont actually made them do that, only with Lockheed, not Pyro.

Lol.

WOLVERINE could swing Colossus like a bat. His strength is underrated.

He killed thousands (tens of thousands?) Of hand ninjas in EotS. So there's precedence for him fighting melee against armies.

Iceman, Magneto, Kitty Pride. PC would make this team an unstopable force.

Originally posted by SamZED
Iceman, Magneto, Kitty Pride. PC would make this team an unstopable force.

Kitty's actually on the list.

Thought about her power, but I'm not sure how her power helps clear hoards any more efficiently then Logan can do it. Best I can come up with is ignoring armies/guards to lay traps, or strategic targeting (Going after the Orc generals and such)

@Spetsnaz: true, but if we allow comic booky feats, i.e. not rooted in the real world, he's pretty fast.

@cdtm: she can make Helms Deep intangible.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@Spetsnaz: true, but if we allow comic booky feats, i.e. not rooted in the real world, he's pretty fast.

@cdtm: she can make Helms Deep intangible.

*blink*

Huh.

Originally posted by emporerpants
now, the point of this isn't to take out the whole army or survive. the point is to prevent the army from getting inside helms deep. which 3 x-men or villians would have the best chance at stopping the army from getting inside?

^ reminder

So yeah, Mags with his forcefields would be an excellent choice - too bad he's not listed in the OP

Wolverine is a one man army, but he can't be everywhere at once.

That's why Pyro is a good choice. He can surround the place in flames, or route armies towards choke points.

Darksaint pretty much ended the thread with Kitty, though. No one's getting into an intangible structure.

Originally posted by cdtm
That's why Pyro is a good choice. He can surround the place in flames, or route armies towards choke points.

Setting off the planted explosives in the process?

Originally posted by cdtm
Darksaint pretty much ended the thread with Kitty, though. No one's getting into an intangible structure.

Technically, that just allows them to harmlessly pass through the walls and gates, which was their only objective in this thread.

Psylocke is a great choice, imo. As she wasn't limited in the op and KMC gives her full capacity.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

@cdtm: she can make Helms Deep intangible. Originally posted by cdtm

Darksaint pretty much ended the thread with Kitty, though. No one's getting into an intangible structure.
Shadowcat isn't allowed to phase the actual location. Emp added a few extra stipulations a few posts later.

Originally posted by emporerpants
yeah, no visor removal for cyke. and for the sake of the thread we'll say shadowcat isn't allowed to make the entirety of helms deep intangible. lol, good point on that though.

The OP (and subsequent posts) should have been quoted 3-4 times on each page, lol.

Ffs.

PGs use of Pyro to create the Eye of Sauron was pretty clever.

Colossus tosses Havok into the field.

He clears it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ffs.

PGs use of Pyro to create the Eye of Sauron was pretty clever.

Like Uruks would care.

1GlZSFFVk00

Hmm not sure why I havent seen it but first choice is obviously Xavier. Who cares how many opponents anyone else can take down or withstand. With Xavier you just mind control any attacker to defend your stronghold for you.

Originally posted by beatboks
Hmm not sure why I havent seen it but first choice is obviously Xavier. Who cares how many opponents anyone else can take down or withstand. With Xavier you just mind control any attacker to defend your stronghold for you.

Read the OP.

We can't just pick any X-Man (or X-Woman) we want, we can only choose from the list.

I never got into LOTR, so I am only going based on youtube clips of the Helm's Deep thing.

This thread was made back when Psylocke had really strong TK, before her Vanishing Powerset Syndrome flared up again. You can combo her with any random two energy projectors tbh. She could protect them from or even redirect arrows/bombs, operate as crowd control, or just rip orcs apart ala Nimrod clones. Additionally, if that orc bomb squad gets through, Psylocke could made a TK wall while her crew beats the forces back. If they scale the walls, she can push the ladders all back down or gather enemies together for her allies to take out.

Pyro would go well here. A giant flaming dragon made from the orc torches would help a lot, as well as setting all their ladders and siege equipment on fire. It is raining though, so some of the AOE damage might be mitigated.

Gambit can machine gun cards into the army ala his showing against Gladiator, charge the arrow supplies of the allied forces, and would kick the shit out of any orcs that managed to scale the walls. Or blow their ladders up.

Cyke/Havok, even without their wide beams, could basically shoot and spin around. That said, it is nighttime. They totally can run out of juice, depending on how large the forces are. While I don't know the full scale of the orc army, that isn't as much of a possibility with the others.

The melee combatants are less appealing to me, for the simple fact that they can't cover all the ground. Sure, Wolverine and Colossus could save themselves, but they can't stop every random orc from rushing the wall and taking a ladder up.

Did the OP mean that it's only 3 Xmen guarding the castle and no army?

yep

Originally posted by Deadline
Did the OP mean that it's only 3 Xmen guarding the castle and no army?

Yeah. And we posted in this thread 10 years ago, Phantom

Well. Collosus, Wolverine and Havok.

Originally posted by Deadline
Well. Collosus, Wolverine and Havok.

Eleven years have passed and you still can't spell "Colossus" right

Post more often. We need more classic members here.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I never got into LOTR, so I am only going based on youtube clips of the Helm's Deep thing.

This thread was made back when Psylocke had really strong TK, before her Vanishing Powerset Syndrome flared up again. You can combo her with any random two energy projectors tbh. She could protect them from or even redirect arrows/bombs, operate as crowd control, or just rip orcs apart ala Nimrod clones. Additionally, if that orc bomb squad gets through, Psylocke could made a TK wall while her crew beats the forces back. If they scale the walls, she can push the ladders all back down or gather enemies together for her allies to take out.

Pyro would go well here. A giant flaming dragon made from the orc torches would help a lot, as well as setting all their ladders and siege equipment on fire. It is raining though, so some of the AOE damage might be mitigated.

Gambit can machine gun cards into the army ala his showing against Gladiator, charge the arrow supplies of the allied forces, and would kick the shit out of any orcs that managed to scale the walls. Or blow their ladders up.

Cyke/Havok, even without their wide beams, could basically shoot and spin around. That said, it is nighttime. They totally can run out of juice, depending on how large the forces are. While I don't know the full scale of the orc army, that isn't as much of a possibility with the others.

The melee combatants are less appealing to me, for the simple fact that they can't cover all the ground. Sure, Wolverine and Colossus could save themselves, but they can't stop every random orc from rushing the wall and taking a ladder up.

Colossus can drop giant rocks on them.

Any of the brawlers can patrol a few sides of the outer wall, and harass them against setting up ladders or siege towers.

Originally posted by cdtm
Colossus can drop giant rocks on them.

Any of the brawlers can patrol a few sides of the outer wall, and harass them against setting up ladders or siege towers.

You want Colossus to weaken the fortifications by doing so?

Sure, but he's not stopping all of them. We're talking about 10,000 Uruks (at least) here, including Berserkers, crossbowmen, ladders, Ballista-powered ladders (yes, that was a thing there) and more.

Colossus may have a degree of enhanced speed, but he's no Superman.

And he can't ****ing fly.

Always thought he should be able to jump. If Grulk does it, you'd think Colossus and Thing could, too.

It would change nothing. He still can't be everywhere at once.

But no, he can't jump like the Hulk, not even close.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You want Colossus to weaken the fortifications by doing so?

Sure, but he's not stopping all of them. We're talking about 10,000 Uruks (at least) here, including Berserkers, crossbowmen, ladders, Ballista-powered ladders (yes, that was a thing there) and more.

Colossus may have a degree of enhanced speed, but he's no Superman.

And he can't ****ing fly.

Doesn't have to weaken the fortifications he can lift stuff off the ground. Thunderclap, create earthquakes. Wolverine can kill alot of them and Havok can AOE.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It would change nothing. He still can't be everywhere at once.



Both Havok and Colossus can do aoe attacks before they got close enough to storm the castle.

EDIT: Wait, wait the OP said no omni blast, ok this isn't looking good. Is omni blast the same as AOE?

Originally posted by Deadline
Doesn't have to weaken the fortifications he can lift stuff off the ground. Thunderclap, create earthquakes. Wolverine can kill alot of them and Havok can AOE.

Helm's Deep is not a mess, there are no rocks lying on the ground just waiting to get picked

Earthquakes WILL most definitely affect the walls, lol. And he was never shown thunderclapping in his career, excluding the single incident when he had the Juggernaut power at his disposal.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Helm's Deep is not a mess, there are no rocks lying on the ground just waiting to get picked

Er he just needs to pick up the ground...in front of the fortifications

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Earthquakes WILL most definitely affect the walls, lol. And he was never shown thunderclapping in his career, excluding the single incident when he had the Juggernaut power at his disposal.

Not if the shockwaves radiate out in front of the castle. Well I'm pretty sure he could make an earthquake.

EDIT Think I might go for gambit instead of Havok.

Kitty, pyro and maybe Betty

Originally posted by Sin I AM
maybe Betty

...

You're dead to me, Lisa.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
...

You're dead to me, Lisa.

Why? At her best she could solo...kitty could as well

Betsy = hottest X-Woman

Betty = Hulk's cumdumpster

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Betsy = hottest X-Woman

Betty = Hulk's cumdumpster

Meh

Originally posted by cdtm
Colossus can drop giant rocks on them.

Any of the brawlers can patrol a few sides of the outer wall, and harass them against setting up ladders or siege towers.
If they had to stop to fight him, maybe. I didn't see many boulders around, but he wouldn't stop them with that. I see him taking maybe 20 out while the 3000 other sprint straight past him. If he had Gambit charged boulders....maybe.

Even then, it's just three X-Men alone. Just seems inefficient to have Gambit stop to charge boulders when he could just do it himself. He's made building, and even city-block sized, explosion with single cards. Just seems smarter to let him carpet bomb from one side of the fortress. Pyro takes the middle. Psylocke takes another side.
Originally posted by Deadline
Er he just needs to pick up the ground...in front of the fortifications
The ground won't stay one solid piece lol.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Why? At her best she could solo...kitty could as well
Kitty isn't allowed to phase actual location, so she'd likely run into similar problems as Colossus and such.

Single target damage won't cut it here. The orcs don't have to stop and fight to progress. Wolverine or Colossus would **** up like 100, while 1000 sprint right by them lol. Sure, they could probably clean up later, but those others would already be inside Helm's Deep, ending the match. You have to stop all of them from setting one foot inside.

To me, the only debate to be had is which 3 out Psylocke, Gambit, Pyro, Cyclops, and Havok is best.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Helm's Deep is not a mess, there are no rocks lying on the ground just waiting to get picked

Earthquakes WILL most definitely affect the walls, lol. And he was never shown thunderclapping in his career, excluding the single incident when he had the Juggernaut power at his disposal. There's a big mountain right next to it that Colossus can teleport to with his teleportation powers. From there he hucks boulders.

Originally posted by StyleTime


Kitty isn't allowed to phase actual location, so she'd likely run into similar problems as Colossus and such.

Single target damage won't cut it here. The orcs don't have to stop and fight to progress. Wolverine or Colossus would **** up like 100, while 1000 sprint right by them lol. Sure, they could probably clean up later, but those others would already be inside Helm's Deep, ending the match. You have to stop all of them from setting one foot inside.

To me, the only debate to be had is which 3 out Psylocke, Gambit, Pyro, Cyclops, and Havok is best.

She can't phase Helms Deep but she can phase the area around it. Think outside the box

I thought Helm's Deep was the actual land area, not just the castle.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I thought Helm's Deep was the actual land area, not just the castle.

Yeah Helms Deep is the valley Hornburg is the castle.

Originally posted by StyleTime
If they had to stop to fight him, maybe. I didn't see many boulders around, but he wouldn't stop them with that. I see him taking maybe 20 out while the 3000 other sprint straight past him. If he had Gambit charged boulders....maybe.

Even then, it's just three X-Men alone. Just seems inefficient to have Gambit stop to charge boulders when he could just do it himself. He's made building, and even city-block sized, explosion with single cards. Just seems smarter to let him carpet bomb from one side of the fortress. Pyro takes the middle. Psylocke takes another side.

The ground won't stay one solid piece lol.

Kitty isn't allowed to phase actual location, so she'd likely run into similar problems as Colossus and such.

Single target damage won't cut it here. The orcs don't have to stop and fight to progress. Wolverine or Colossus would **** up like 100, while 1000 sprint right by them lol. Sure, they could probably clean up later, but those others would already be inside Helm's Deep, ending the match. You have to stop all of them from setting one foot inside.

To me, the only debate to be had is which 3 out Psylocke, Gambit, Pyro, Cyclops, and Havok is best.

The numbers also fall all over themselves after a point.

There's only so many ways into the castle, so Logan, Creed, or Colossus stations at choke points outside the wall, and someone stays inside to fend off ladders and such. Think 300 Spartans hot gates strategy.

You didn't watch the movie, did you?

One thing to remember is that at the battle of Helms Deep there were 10,000 Uruk-Hai at a low estimate (this includes the Berserkers etc). There's only 3 mutants defending this as well. I know they are all powerful but it's not gonna be as much of a cakewalk. The whole army will charge straight away at Hornburg.

Colossus will be needed at a minimum. to fend off the large numbers. And he isn't gonna be able to occupy the whole army since they can go around him and fight the others.

Not saying the Uruks stomp but this isn't as easy as it might look initially.

Colossus pulls the land like a rug and thousands of orcs fall over dead.

Colossus picks up Hornburg and runs with it.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Colossus pulls the land like a rug and thousands of orcs fall over dead.

This has convinced me. Colossus flips the continent of Middle-Earth like a pancake and drowns the whole land.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
She can't phase Helms Deep but she can phase the area around it. Think outside the box
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Yeah Helms Deep is the valley Hornburg is the castle.


So no phasing the place for Kitty, which would be a pretty big feat for her anyway.
Originally posted by cdtm
The numbers also fall all over themselves after a point.

There's only so many ways into the castle, so Logan, Creed, or Colossus stations at choke points outside the wall, and someone stays inside to fend off ladders and such. Think 300 Spartans hot gates strategy.
Until the bomb squad makes more entrances . While ladders are being thrown up simultaneously. Cyclops would just be zapping everyone. Meanwhile, the orcs run up the ladder Colossus couldn't reach in time because he's busy stopping one of the psycho-orcs.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
One thing to remember is that at the battle of Helms Deep there were 10,000 Uruk-Hai at a low estimate (this includes the Berserkers etc). There's only 3 mutants defending this as well. I know they are all powerful but it's not gonna be as much of a cakewalk. The whole army will charge straight away at Hornburg.

Colossus will be needed at a minimum. to fend off the large numbers. And he isn't gonna be able to occupy the whole army since they can go around him and fight the others.

Not saying the Uruks stomp but this isn't as easy as it might look initially. \
Oh, I agree. It will be struggle city with the stipulations in place, which makes it fun.

That said, that is why I think the ranged people are the only relevant parties. Colossus just can't cover the ground someone like Gambit and Pyro can.

Originally posted by StyleTime


So no phasing the place for Kitty, which would be a pretty big feat for her anyway.



Not really. She has planetary level phasing feats...even recently she phased a nuke down thru to the earth's core. You're woefully misinformed

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Not really. She has planetary level phasing feats...even recently she phased a nuke down thru to the earth's core. You're woefully misinformed
A nuke is the size of the planet? Or the orc army?

Phasing on this scale is generally a pretty big moment of awesome for her. Like Nightcrawler teleporting hundreds of miles when in desperate situations.

Originally posted by StyleTime
A nuke is the size of the planet? Or the orc army?

Those were two completely different statements. One was to describe scale and the other precision.

The X-Men don't need to kill every single Uruk to defend Hornburg. Even Uruk-hai can lose morale and break. And a big metal dude who is completely invincible to any attempts at felling him and strong enough to grab the Uruk in the front and throw him literally through every Uruk in formation and out of the valley of Helm's Deep would be a pretty big damper on the army's morale. And that's just one guy. Colossus could easily toss Wolverine into vicinity of the Uruk commander (presumably one exists, we never saw it for some reason), who would then kill everyone around him and continue running through the ranks butchering them while *insert ranged X-Men here* is laying into the army from the walls.

I can't see the Uruks continuing to push on to fight while an invincible metal man and a slightly smaller invincible man are tearing through Uruks by the dozens while some nerd with a red visor is nuking the field from a distance.

@Style

https://tinyurl.com/yauohw37

Originally posted by NemeBro
The X-Men don't need to kill every single Uruk to defend Hornburg. Even Uruk-hai can lose morale and break. And a big metal dude who is completely invincible to any attempts at felling him and strong enough to grab the Uruk in the front and throw him literally through every Uruk in formation and out of the valley of Helm's Deep would be a pretty big damper on the army's morale. And that's just one guy. Colossus could easily toss Wolverine into vicinity of the Uruk commander (presumably one exists, we never saw it for some reason), who would then kill everyone around him and continue running through the ranks butchering them while *insert ranged X-Men here* is laying into the army from the walls.

I can't see the Uruks continuing to push on to fight while an invincible metal man and a slightly smaller invincible man are tearing through Uruks by the dozens while some nerd with a red visor is nuking the field from a distance.

There was a commander there. It was the Uruk who was standing on that rock roaring.

wolverine
colossus
sabertooth


Those three. Invulnerable strong guy who alone would be more than enough and two regenerating, raging killing machines.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
There was a commander there. It was the Uruk who was standing on that rock roaring.

The one without a helmet, yes.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
wolverine
colossus
sabertooth


Those three. Invulnerable strong guy who alone would be more than enough and two regenerating, raging killing machines.

Read the OP.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Those were two completely different statements. One was to describe scale and the other precision.
Nah, that isn't precision. It's just a regular "phase the thing you're touching feat." Precision is her phasing specific body parts or doing a phase jump kick on someone like here.

https://postimg.cc/RWqN92zJ

Regardless, you're being way too loose with the definition of "planetary." The only time she ever phased the planet was when she had the Black Vortex amp. And she's definitely demonstrated strain phasing large objects. Phasing Helm's Deep, and the whole orc(or whatever they are) army would get an immediate spot in all her respect threads. Rightfully so, as it would be one of her largest of all time.

Would you call Xavier or Rachel planetary telepaths if they hadn't demonstrated planet-wide telepathy?
Originally posted by NemeBro
The X-Men don't need to kill every single Uruk to defend Hornburg. Even Uruk-hai can lose morale and break. And a big metal dude who is completely invincible to any attempts at felling him and strong enough to grab the Uruk in the front and throw him literally through every Uruk in formation and out of the valley of Helm's Deep would be a pretty big damper on the army's morale. And that's just one guy. Colossus could easily toss Wolverine into vicinity of the Uruk commander (presumably one exists, we never saw it for some reason), who would then kill everyone around him and continue running through the ranks butchering them while *insert ranged X-Men here* is laying into the army from the walls.

I can't see the Uruks continuing to push on to fight while an invincible metal man and a slightly smaller invincible man are tearing through Uruks by the dozens while some nerd with a red visor is nuking the field from a distance.
Fair point, and as I said, I know jack shit about LOTR. If intimidating them is a viable tactic, then this becomes much easier.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
@Style

https://tinyurl.com/yauohw37
I'm several types of nerd, but I could never get into sword/shield/elven high fantasy stuff. It has left me pretty ignorant on some of these series. I just assumed they were some brand of orc lol.

Uruk-Hai is it?

Originally posted by StyleTime
Nah, that isn't precision. It's just a regular "phase the thing you're touching feat." Precision is her phasing specific body parts or doing a phase jump kick on someone like here.

https://postimg.cc/RWqN92zJ

Regardless, you're being way too loose with the definition of "planetary." The only time she ever phased the planet was when she had the Black Vortex amp. And she's definitely demonstrated strain phasing large objects. Phasing Helm's Deep, and the whole orc(or whatever they are) army would get an immediate spot in all her respect threads. Rightfully so, as it would be one of her largest of all time.

Would you call Xavier or Rachel planetary telepaths if they hadn't demonstrated planet-wide telepathy?

Fair point, and as I said, I know jack shit about LOTR. If intimidating them is a viable tactic, then this becomes much easier.

I know jack shit about LOTR. I'm several types of nerd, but I could never get into sword/shield/elven high fantasy stuff. I just assumed they were some brand of orc lol.

Uruk-Hai is it?

Yep its Uruk-Hai. Orcs are corrupted elves so are Uruks but they are like the purebreed orc. And Uruk tends to be only used for ones from Isengard.

Uruk-hai are bigger, stronger, and more disciplined than normal orcs, but in the very battle we are discussing it was Gandalf arriving with a thousand Rohirrim in the rear that caused the Uruk army to flee into the woods and be cut down, with less than half escaping.

And they might have even won the battle regardless had they not broken and fled, considering they still vastly outnumbered the Rohirrim. Maybe not though, since they were being led by an individual in Gandalf who could lay waste to scores of orcs with contemptuous ease.

Only in this thread there are three Gandalfs, who are arguably even more powerful.

Tbf, though, Gandalf was like a legendary unit.

They won't give af who Colossus is. WE don't give af about who he is, and we know the character.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gandalf arriving with a thousand Rohirrim in the rear Homo?

Personally, I'd pick Cyke, Pyro, and Colossus. Cyke and Pyro would be great for long range, and Colossus would be a good melee stop gag. Such as possibly plugging a hole in the hall if one of the suicide orks blows a portion of it up just like in the movie. Having at least one melee person adds a bit more tactical versatility when coupled with ranged specialists imo.

Fairly certain that Pyro could kill 10k uruks in like 5 minutes if he wanted to.

Can't he just navigate a huge ball of fire across the battlefield? He can reach insane temperatures with little difficulty.

In pure theory, yeah.

But you realize he hasn't done anything in his entire career even remotely close to that?

I see him running out of fuel and getting shot down with a single bolt.

Even remotely close to shooting fire in a straight direction and moving it?

Obviously none of these characters have fought a medieval army or killed anyone.

Come on Stilt, this is dumb, even for you.

A group of powerless thugs would take care of Pyro and you're seeing him solo'ing 10,000+ Uruk-hai

Originally posted by krisblaze
Fairly certain that Pyro could kill 10k uruks in like 5 minutes if he wanted to.

Can't he just navigate a huge ball of fire across the battlefield? He can reach insane temperatures with little difficulty.

And like I said, the castle must be full of oil, because that was the primary fuel source of the period setting. It's how lanterns and torches kept going.

So someone lays down strategic oil paths. Or, just douse the lot, and set it off.

Originally posted by emporerpants
some villians included too. your choices are as follows:

cyclops (no omni blast)
wolverine
beast
colossus
shadowcat
gambit
nightcrawler
havok (can he omni blast? if he can, he can't here)
pyro
pyslocke
sabertooth
toad
warpath
x-23
emma frost (no mind powers, just diamond form)

now, the point of this isn't to take out the whole army or survive. the point is to prevent the army from getting inside helms deep. which 3 x-men or villians would have the best chance at stopping the army from getting inside?

Psylocke - Her telekinesis has great long and close range destructive and defensive capabilities. She could keep the opposing force at bay with tk blasts, or grab and hurl any warriors who got too close. Plus she also has her telepathy to take control of a large number of the forces and make them fight for her against their comrades.

Warpath - Not as strong as Colossus but he is strong enough to deal with Orcs and invulnerable enough to brush off spears, swords and arrows. Plus hes far more versatile than Colossus with his enhanced speed and ability to fly. He could take point and just devastate their forces up close and quickly navigate the battlefield to stop any forces reaching the helm.

Havok - sheer destructive long range power. He'd keep the enemy at bay