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Cyclops limited to narrow, precision blasts only (no area-wide omega blasts)

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/187411-9989-sabretooth_super.jpg vs http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/204205-49638-cyclops_super.jpg

Cyke still wins. Constant barrage of optic blasts that punch through steel and mountains.

Cyke.....

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Cyke.....

Sabretooth.
Already happened and Sabes almost gouged Cyk's eyes out.

Get off my lawn, the blast is concussive isnt it? could it not pin Tooth to a wall and just..Unload?

cyclops...

El-sexo is right, I think Cyclops takes it too.

A narrow area makes it even easier for Cyclops to hit.

Again, Already happened. In an apartment room. Cyclops shot two blasts at Sabes, one of which was to Sabretooth's back while he was trying to maul iceman, he dodged the blasts and closed ground on Cyk (like Wolverine) then had is fingertips at Scott's eyes before Iceman came to his rescue. This fight doesn't feel to be in scooters favor without wide range blasts. Sabretooth can certainly take optic blasts indefinitely anyways.

Originally posted by jinzin
Sabretooth can certainly take optic blasts indefinitely anyways.

pr1983

...how?

With his crazy high level durability and healing factor.

Wolverine's done it, Sabretooth's done it already and when Scott's limited to straight beams... Creed for the win.

Originally posted by jinzin
With his crazy high level durability and healing factor.

Wolverine's done it, Sabretooth's done it already and when Scott's limited to straight beams... Creed for the win.

scott has knocked down/back people with greater durability, and his healing factor isn't nearly fast enough to combat cyke if summers has any decent distance between them during the fight...

scott spends more time using as little power as possible in his blasts, he'll have no trouble increasing that power if need be, when he can focus all that punch into a thin beam...

You know what else has also happened, Cyclops snuck up on Wolverine and ko'd him with a blast to the head.

So I guess you'll be picking Scott in the next Wolverine vs Cyclops thread.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You know what else has also happened, Cyclops snuck up on Wolverine and ko'd him with a blast to the head.

So I guess you'll be picking Scott in the next Wolverine vs Cyclops thread.

pr1983

there was already a cyclops v logan thread, and the general consensus was that scott would take him...

Originally posted by Raoul
pr1983

there was already a cyclops v logan thread, and the general consensus was that scott would take him...

Ah, but he was allowed to use the omni-blast in that one, right?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Ah, but he was allowed to use the omni-blast in that one, right?

it was an option yes... so?

Originally posted by Raoul
scott has knocked down/back people with greater durability, and his healing factor isn't nearly fast enough to combat cyke if summers has any decent distance between them during the fight...

scott spends more time using as little power as possible in his blasts, he'll have no trouble increasing that power if need be, when he can focus all that punch into a thin beam...
And he's done it, and Sabes stood up to it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You know what else has also happened, Cyclops snuck up on Wolverine and ko'd him with a blast to the head.

So I guess you'll be picking Scott in the next Wolverine vs Cyclops thread.

In a danger room with Jean nullifying Logan's senses, and Scott with an advantage of surprise against a pre-Fatal Attractions HF bearing Wolverine? Sure...

God, don't you care anything about context?

Originally posted by jinzin
And he's done it, and Sabes stood up to it.

which instance are you talking about?

there's still the matter of cyclops tagging people faster and more durable...

Originally posted by Raoul
it was an option yes... so?



http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7628/captang29md1.jpg
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3954/captang30cy4.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2724/cyklopsdodgewa4.jpg

I don't recall anything being mentioned about Wolverine's senses being impaired.

Originally posted by Raoul
which instance are you talking about?

there's still the matter of cyclops tagging people faster and more durable...
faster but with his heightened senses and skill or hell intimate knowledge of Cyk?
More durable, but with his crazy ass healing factor?

Into the Red Zone.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I don't recall anything being mentioned about Wolverine's senses being imparied. He flat out says it in the panel that Cyclops is hiding behind him.

Originally posted by jinzin
faster but with his heightened senses and skill or hell intimate knowledge of Cyk?
More durable, but with his crazy ass healing factor?

Into the Red Zone.

sabretooth has intimate knowledge of cyclops?

his healing factor wont work if his organs are being liquified faster than they can heal...

into the red zone? got an issue number?

I still don't recall it, but I'll take your word for it.

Didn't say infinate. I said intimate. Unlike many foes that Cyclops goes rounds with Sabretooth has had the pleasure/displeasure of being on Cylcops' team, see how he works in the danger room.
I imagine that'd give him at least SOME edge that most opponents don't have over Cyclops.

He's got a durability level that can take Herc class punches without Adamantium, Muscle sinew like steel cable too hard for Warbird to apply pressure points.
I highly doubt that he'd be more effected than Wolverine who's been blasted full on by Cyclops about half a dozen times. Especially given that he stood up seconds after impact being dropped from space without adamantium.

That's what it's called it's a one shot that follows the events of what happened with Sabretooth after he broke out of the mansion and down Psylocke.

On another note, enhanced supermen had cyclops' powers and it took multiple shots from them to put Sabretooth down on top of class 90 punches and superspeed. Them being plural.

Originally posted by jinzin
Didn't say infinate. I said intimate.

yeah, i know, i edited...



but doesnt that also give cyclops an edge against creed?



when has logan been blasted full force by cyclops?



oh... i think i have it, ill go look...



they werent cyclops, though...

The narrow focus beam through the superior orbital fissure. He can punch the eye out of a dime that was tossed into the air, and has pulled a hell of a stunt in murder world tagging multiple moving objects by ricocheting a beam...

I think be pinning down and keeping a portion of the brain destroyed, possibly with ricochet inside the skull to destroy more of it long enough could count as a win for cyclops.

Originally posted by Raoul
yeah, i know, i edited... oops.



Originally posted by Raoul
but doesnt that also give cyclops an edge against creed?
It very well might, but it certainly didn't seem that way in Into the Red Zone.




Originally posted by Raoul
when has logan been blasted full force by cyclops?


Several times, during the first big Brood arc, during a fight in Classic X-Men, and during his stint as Death.





Originally posted by Raoul
they werent cyclops, though... They had his powers. Wouldn't that be at least SOME empirical evidence here?

Originally posted by Creshosk
The narrow focus beam through the superior orbital fissure. He can punch the eye out of a dime that was tossed into the air, and has pulled a hell of a stunt in murder world tagging multiple moving objects by ricocheting a beam...

I think be pinning down and keeping a portion of the brain destroyed, possibly with ricochet inside the skull to destroy more of it long enough could count as a win for cyclops.
And I think Sabretooth ripping his face off would count as a win for creed.

Originally posted by jinzin
He's got a durability level that can take Herc class punches without Adamantium, Muscle sinew like steel cable too hard for Warbird to apply pressure points.

Dude, I always read your posts no matter how long they are since you're not only eloquent but also know a lot. Seriously, stop using that example, as it reeks of hypocrisy. Whenever someone mentions a one-shot to wolverine, you mention context and how he had already had his HF taxed and whatnot, but you always use this argument in sabertooth fights although you know full well that Warbird was having trouble adjusting to her powers and had just been hit by a train. Seriously...if you're gonna tell others to not ignore context, don't ignore it yourself

Originally posted by jinzin
oops.





i need to read it, though that was a long time ago...



cyclops did not hit logan with an onslaught stopping, forest levelling blast, not once...



not really, if they arent nearly as skilled as he is, and then there's the fact that bar amazo, in comics enemies usually suck when they have a hero's power...

Originally posted by jinzin
oops.




It very well might, but it certainly didn't seem that way in Into the Red Zone.







Several times, during the first big Brood arc, during a fight in Classic X-Men, and during his stint as Death.





They had his powers. Wouldn't that be at least SOME empirical evidence here? When he was death he had an energy absorbing thing that just lapped up all the energy that was thrown at him. That celestial tech that Apoc has helps characters like war hulk and the like..

Having someone's powers doesn't mean that you're as skilled as that person.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Dude, I always read your posts no matter how long they are since you're not only eloquent but also know a lot. Seriously, stop using that example, as it reeks of hypocrisy. Whenever someone mentions a one-shot to wolverine, you mention context and how he had already had his HF taxed and whatnot, but you always use this argument in sabertooth fights although you know full well that Warbird was having trouble adjusting to her powers and had just been hit by a train. Seriously...if you're gonna tell others to not ignore context, don't ignore it yourself

I fail to see how Warbird still finding the limits of her powers correlates to her attackes on Sabretooth having no relivence to anything. Especially 25 issues into her own series. At any rate:

She flat out stated that his sinew was too durable to use a nerve pinch. She didn't say anything along the lines of "If I was fresher I would/could use a nerve pinch" or "If only I knew more about my powers I could use a nerve pinch". She stated for a fact that his muscles were like steel cables and that a nerve pinch attempt would be useless.
And all I was commenting on was that simple fact.


Furthermore onto the fight itself, which is what I gather you're having the problem with. Yes she was hit by a train, and yet Sabretooth had been in a car wreck that dismantled an armored car, he was knocked into an electric rail that fried his ass. When they got into their slugfest neither was at the top of their game, yet it's still an impressive showing of Sabretooth's stamina/HF as it simply held out longer than Warbird could keep up. When she mounted him she stated that any one of her punches could have pulverized a normal person and that it took an assload just to knock him down.

When I use that example, it's an example of his stamina in combat, the example stands.
An example of his durability, the example stands.
And finally an example of his ability to give trouble to people who far exeed him in strength. Now this is arguable and to that I agree. But it isn't as if there's loads of evidence that contradict this.

I mean on the other hand here we have Rogue, a mirror image of Warbirds powers at their peak at work. Sabretooth was powerful/skillful enough to rend her unconscious. His durability has been enough to take being punched out a high rise building the length of a park by Rogue only to get up and go after Wolverine. It's been enough to simply shrugg off having his head embedded into a brick wall and hammered by several follow ups from a very pissed off Rogue with a threat and a smile.

The Warbird example isn't necessarily contradicted by other examples.
And it certainly doesn't fail to prove what I'm saying here, that his musculature is extremely durable/strong.

Originally posted by Raoul
cyclops did not hit logan with an onslaught stopping, forest levelling blast, not once...
In the Classic X-Men example Wolverine says something along the lines of "their hitting me with everything they got".
In the Brood example, Cyclops had no visor his eyes were enlarged (brood size) and he had no control over the blast, he necessarily couldn't have been holding back.
Cyclops was hitting him with everything he had during the death scenario.



Originally posted by Raoul
not really, if they arent nearly as skilled as he is, and then there's the fact that bar amazo, in comics enemies usually suck when they have a hero's power... I wasn't making that reference vs. skill but sheer stopping power.

In terms of skill, Cyclops already failed against Sabretooth.

Cyclops wins this.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. That apllies here.

Originally posted by Creshosk
When he was death he had an energy absorbing thing that just lapped up all the energy that was thrown at him. That celestial tech that Apoc has helps characters like war hulk and the like..

Having someone's powers doesn't mean that you're as skilled as that person. Again the reference wasn't to skill, but to his stopping power.

And WHAT? When/where was that EVER stated?
It wasn't.


Cyclops also blasted him while he was hounding the X-Men and it knocked him through a loop, his ability to walk through Cyks blast was due to his knowledge of Cyk, not some magical armor that was never mentioned, or referenced.

Originally posted by jinzin
She stated for a fact that his muscles were like steel cables and that a nerve pinch attempt would be useless.
And all I was commenting on was that simple fact.


what the hell does muscle density have to do with the feasibility of a nerve pinch?

nerves are on your skin, not beneath your muscles. Your muscles can be steel hard and you'd still feel a nerve attack.

Originally posted by jinzin
In the Classic X-Men example Wolverine says something along the lines of "their hitting me with everything they got".
In the Brood example, Cyclops had no visor his eyes were enlarged (brood size) and he had no control over the blast, he necessarily couldn't have been holding back.
Cyclops was hitting him with everything he had during the death scenario. So was everyone else, including Jean, CAble and Nate Grey. I suspect he had celestial tech that absorbed these attacks. Yes, Jubilees destroyed it by attacking his armor with her mild matter manip attack of detonating the matter it was made of. But him wading through Jean, cable and Nate's attacks makes me suspect there was something else involved such as celestial tech



Originally posted by jinzin
I wasn't making that reference vs. skill but sheer stopping power.

In terms of skill, Cyclops already failed against Sabretooth. Sabertooth isn't a DBZ character that can go for extended periods of time faster than the eye can see, he may be able to move in bursts, but when Cyclops's attack is literally, "I look at you and you're tagged," I doubt that such an occurrence is feasible.

question: doesn't cyke's beam push rather than burn...ie its more a force than a heat beam

Originally posted by jinzin
Again the reference wasn't to skill, but to his stopping power.

And WHAT? When/where was that EVER stated?
It wasn't.


Cyclops also blasted him while he was hounding the X-Men and it knocked him through a loop, his ability to walk through Cyks blast was due to his knowledge of Cyk, not some magical armor that was never mentioned, or referenced. You mean that fancy blue armor that he was wearing? If it wasn't some other explanation, it was PIS due to jean ( who can lift tons failing to push him back) Cable (Who's gone toe to toe with the surfer) and Nate Grey (Cable without having to constantly keep a virus in check with his telekinesis).


Wolverine pounded (not cut) his way through a door that was being reinforced by nate's telekenisis.

I'm sorry but the event was either plot device or plot stupidity.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So was everyone else, including Jean, CAble and Nate Grey. I suspect he had celestial tech that absorbed these attacks. Yes, Jubilees destroyed it by attacking his armor with her mild matter manip attack of detonating the matter it was made of. But him wading through Jean, cable and Nate's attacks makes me suspect there was something else involved such as celestial tech
He didn't wade through Nate's attacks.
Or Cables... Cable tried to fight him in hand to hand, he lost one, and he won one.
Jean, I think psy-blockers were referenced. But other than that?
Cyclops was effective on him in one instance and not another.



Originally posted by Creshosk
Sabertooth isn't a DBZ character that can go for extended periods of time faster than the eye can see, he may be able to move in bursts, but when Cyclops's attack is literally, "I look at you and you're tagged," I doubt that such an occurrence is feasible. I'm not sure I folow that little DBZ rant.
Cyclops already proved that he has trouble even registering the movements of a Prime Sentinal that Logan had absolutely no trouble dealing with in h2h.
Logan's already dodged Cyclops' focused beams at point blank when he was aware.
Sabretooth did it too.
Both characters closed ground on Cyk while avoiding the blast long enough to draw an advantagous position.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You mean that fancy blue armor that he was wearing? If it wasn't some other explanation, it was PIS due to jean ( who can lift tons failing to push him back) Cable (Who's gone toe to toe with the surfer) and Nate Grey (Cable without having to constantly keep a virus in check with his telekinesis).


Wolverine pounded (not cut) his way through a door that was being reinforced by nate's telekenisis.

I'm sorry but the event was either plot device or plot stupidity.
Wolverine cut through the door, that was what was stated on panel.

Jean's also had trouble holding Sabretooth or bone claw Wolverine, part of that has to do with willpower.

Cable nor Nate ever attacked Logan. Well Cable did but both occurances were h2h contests.

If Creed can get close quarters on Scott he'll dominate. But I don't see him doing that.

Jinzin Pick:
Plot device or Plot stupidity.

Those are the options.

Originally posted by jinzin
In the Classic X-Men example Wolverine says something along the lines of "their hitting me with everything they got".

cos wolverines knowledge of cyclops' powers > cyclops' right?



there's the problem that cyclops' powers have been consistently redefined by writers... a full power blast in the 60s was barely enough to puncture steel, now he's levelling forests and knocking down guys that can physicaly hang with colossus without even going full on...

i really dont think you can say it was full power when its been altered a fair bit...

a full power brood blast isnt nearly equal to his current power level, imo...



one showing?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Jinzin Pick:
Plot device or Plot stupidity.

Those are the options.
Oh please, I'm not going to fall into such a false dychotomy. Wolverine's done without the armor what he's done with it. He's even made reference to a weak point in Cyk's beam that he can avoid a percentage of damage while inside.

With the exception of spy-blockers he had nothing to help him with the blast more than any other time. Hell, Cyck even blasted him later to an effect. He had no absorbing armor that was never before, during, or since referenced.

Originally posted by jinzin
He didn't wade through Nate's attacks.
Or Cables... Cable tried to fight him in hand to hand, he lost one, and he won one.
Jean, I think psy-blockers were referenced. But other than that?
Cyclops was effective on him in one instance and not another.



I'm not sure I folow that little DBZ rant.
Cyclops already proved that he has trouble even registering the movements of a Prime Sentinal that Logan had absolutely no trouble dealing with in h2h.
Logan's already dodged Cyclops' focused beams at point blank when he was aware.
Sabretooth did it too.
Both characters closed ground on Cyk while avoiding the blast long enough to draw an advantagous position.


Cyclops tags you by looking at you.
Avoiding being tagged means you avoided him seeing you.
Avoiding him seeing you means you moved faster than his eyes could lock on you, rather than even his brain being able to process you moved.
To truly dodge cyclops you have to constantly keep him from seeing you.
Default specifications means that they start .5 km apart. in a flat neutral like setting.

Being able to keep him from seeing you while you travel .5km with no cover is a DBZ-esque feat.

DBZ-esque level feats are impossible for Wolverine or Sabertooth.

Yes, they can move faster than the eye can see, for short periods of time. They are not speedsters, beyond bursts of invisible to the eye movement. They are not, not being seen, by cyclops while covering the distance between them.

And just to clarify, .5 kilometers is roughly 3 football stadium lengths.

Originally posted by Raoul
cos wolverines knowledge of cyclops' powers > cyclops' right?

That... doesn't even make sense. Cyclops was commanded to blast Wolverine, he did, Wolverine made a reference that he was being hit with everything scott had and stood up to it.



Originally posted by Raoul
there's the problem that cyclops' powers have been consistently redefined by writers... a full power blast in the 60s was barely enough to puncture steel, now he's levelling forests and knocking down guys that can physicaly hang with colossus without even going full on... Wouldn't that just fall into the collateral damage argument that coincides with brick punches?

Originally posted by Raoul
i really dont think you can say it was full power when its been altered a fair bit...

a full power brood blast isnt nearly equal to his current power level, imo...
So he's definitely gotten stronger and it isn't just a plea to the non collateral damage argument?



Originally posted by Raoul
one showing? Twice actually.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Cyclops tags you by looking at you.
Avoiding being tagged means you avoided him seeing you.
Avoiding him seeing you means you moved faster than his eyes could lock on you, rather than even his brain being able to process you moved.
To truly dodge cyclops you have to constantly keep him from seeing you.
Cyke could tag by looking...but Creed is not someone who is gonna be taken down by one blast, or many

and once Cyke unleashes a blast, he's blind for the moment....so Creed gets hit and then continues on towards Cyke

Sounds like El-Sexo and Jinzin should take it to the battlezone or something.

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh please, I'm not going to fall into such a false dychotomy. Wolverine's done without the armor what he's done with it. He's even made reference to a weak point in Cyk's beam that he can avoid a percentage of damage while inside. Writers giving faulty explination makes for plot induced stupidity. a "weak point" in a light like projection is only made by something blocking it. given the wave like functions of light there would be no "weak point" other than that of right between cyclops's eyes before the beams unite.

More writer garbage not understanding science. I'll accept that as much as I accept storm flying on solar winds: I don't.

Originally posted by jinzin
With the exception of spy-blockers he had nothing to help him with the blast more than any other time. Hell, Cyck even blasted him later to an effect. He had no absorbing armor that was never before, during, or since referenced. Psy blockers block telepathy. Not telekenisis.

and I call bullshit on the feat then,. Congratulations, that's a case of plot induced stupidity. its right up there with Spiderman dancing circles around the X-men and Spiderman's webbing holding nightcrawler.

It has nothing to do with likeing the feat. because I like the events that happened. Jubilee got to help save the day. It has everything to do with feesability.

Originally posted by Starscream M
and once Cyke unleashes a blast, he's blind for the moment....so Creed gets hit and then continues on towards Cyke

Lulz?

Originally posted by llagrok
Sounds like El-Sexo and Jinzin should take it to the battlezone or something. http://www.recyclethis.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/dental_floss250.jpg

Originally posted by batdude123
Lulz? cyke is blind while he shoots his rays

Originally posted by Creshosk
Writers giving faulty explination makes for plot induced stupidity. a "weak point" in a light like projection is only made by something blocking it. given the wave like functions of light there would be no "weak point" other than that of right between cyclops's eyes before the beams unite.

More writer garbage not understanding science. I'll accept that as much as I accept storm flying on solar winds: I don't.

While I'm not defending jinzin's stance... Cyclop's blasts are "non-Einsteinian particles" in beam form that come from another universe.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Cyclops tags you by looking at you.
Avoiding being tagged means you avoided him seeing you.
Avoiding him seeing you means you moved faster than his eyes could lock on you, rather than even his brain being able to process you moved.
To truly dodge cyclops you have to constantly keep him from seeing you. You're talking about a guy who's faster than someone who's had multiple displays of being faster than the eye could follow, they move nearly faster than Psylocke could grasp in her mind's eye. It's not implausible for Sabretooth to do this.
Are you arguing against on panel evidence that has nothing left to open interpretation?


Originally posted by Creshosk
Default specifications means that they start .5 km apart. in a flat neutral like setting.
True. But with distance comes more a chance to dodge. As Wolverine already has.
Though, admittedly I was under the impression this was in a small area... I'm not really sure why in retrospect.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Being able to keep him from seeing you while you travel .5km with no cover is a DBZ-esque feat.

DBZ-esque level feats are impossible for Wolverine or Sabertooth.

Yes, they can move faster than the eye can see, for short periods of time. They are not speedsters, beyond bursts of invisible to the eye movement. They are not, not being seen, by cyclops while covering the distance between them. distance still gives an opening to dodge. As Wolverine as done just that from a distance with his back to Cyk.. twice.

I will admit though given default distance Creeds chances for success are a lot more limited than what I originally thought.

Originally posted by jinzin

That... doesn't even make sense. Cyclops was commanded to blast Wolverine, he did, Wolverine made a reference that he was being hit with everything scott had and stood up to it.

how does wolverine know scott's limits if even scott doesnt?



i don't see how, to be honest...



of course, 'full power' was just something cool writers used to go on about... he's a damn sight more powerful now than he was in years gone by, even in astonishing alone, he has some really impressive feats...



which is the other one?

Originally posted by Starscream M
cyke is blind while he shoots his rays

that would make him blind all the time...

Originally posted by Starscream M
cyke is blind while he shoots his rays

Proof? Or is this just another one of masterbruce's suppositions? Cyclop's blasts are constantly firing, despite being blocked by his ruby quartz glasses.

I guess I should have made more clear the settings, as it's pretty important in this battle.

My intent was that the battle take place in a snow-filled forest, that has trees and other plants, although it isn't dense like a rain forest, there is plenty of cover.

Originally posted by Raoul
how does wolverine know scott's limits if even scott doesnt?

Scott necesarily had to hit Wolverine with all he had since that's what he was commanded to do.



Originally posted by Raoul
i don't see how, to be honest...
Well I mean, if the argument is that Cyclop's has gotten stronger over the years, has this been referenced upon outside of the collateral damage he does more of now as opposed to then. I remember his classic beams still being pretty damned powerful.



Originally posted by Raoul
of course, 'full power' was just something cool writers used to go on about... he's a damn sight more powerful now than he was in years gone by, even in astonishing alone, he has some really impressive feats...
So this is more of an imprical statement then something that's been referenced?

Originally posted by Raoul
which is the other one? After that fight, Sabretooth runs for it, the X-Men catch back up to him Jean Grey breaks one of Sabe's legs with TK then Cyclops blasts him through a window, Sabretooth jumps back through the window and pin Cyclops down who's then saved by the X-Men.

bottom of the page:

Originally posted by jinzin

That... doesn't even make sense. Cyclops was commanded to blast Wolverine, he did, Wolverine made a reference that he was being hit with everything scott had and stood up to it.

how does wolverine know scott's limits if even scott doesnt?



i don't see how, to be honest...



of course, 'full power' was just something cool writers used to go on about... he's a damn sight more powerful now than he was in years gone by, even in astonishing alone, he has some really impressive feats...



which is the other one?

Originally posted by Starscream M
cyke is blind while he shoots his rays

that would make him blind all the time...

Originally posted by batdude123
While I'm not defending jinzin's stance... Cyclop's blasts are "non-Einsteinian particles" in beam form that come from another universe. But mentioning this would require me to assert proof that these non-Einsteinian particles act other than any other particles we've encountered before. They ricochet like regular particles. they interact with our plane's matter with a concussive force. It seems like they act like light with the particle wave duality. And as the burden of proof requires us to assume what's established as the norm until proven otherwise. To make a claim that they would not act like our particles would require evidence.

Even if you do not wish to pick up continuing this defense, whoever does, does so with the challenge for proof attached.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I guess I should have made more clear the settings, as it's pretty important in this battle.

My intent was that the battle take place in a snow-filled forest, that has trees and other plants, although it isn't dense like a rain forest, there is plenty of cover. Don't even try it. The last time you changed stipulations in the middle of a thread there were reports and a few bannings. Default battlefield.

Originally posted by Raoul



that would make him blind all the time... ummm...what the heck are you talking about?

I've read xmen comics, and I don't see Cyke in a constant state of shooting his beams, in fact, more likely he does so very rarely actually.

Originally posted by Starscream M
ummm...what the heck are you talking about?

I've read xmen comics, and I don't see Cyke in a constant state of shooting his beams, in fact, more likely he does so very rarely actually.

Originally posted by Starscream M
ummm...what the heck are you talking about?

I've read xmen comics, and I don't see Cyke in a constant state of shooting his beams, in fact, more likely he does so very rarely actually.

doh

Stop posting.

Originally posted by Badabing
Don't even try it. The last time you changed stipulations in the middle of a thread there were reports and a few bannings. Default battlefield. I just posted my intent, whether people want to go by that or not is their choice.

Originally posted by Starscream M
ummm...what the heck are you talking about?

I've read xmen comics, and I don't see Cyke in a constant state of shooting his beams, in fact, more likely he does so very rarely actually. They come out of his eyes all the time. He can't turn em off. In order to see without destroying everything he has to wear ruby quartz lenses to filter out the beams.


What? Do you think the glasses were just a fashion decision?

Originally posted by batdude123
Proof? Or is this just another one of masterbruce's suppositions? Cyclop's blasts are constantly firing, despite being blocked by his ruby quartz glasses. not a personal supposition, more commensense...

when he fires a beam, his field of vision is covered by red light, hence he is technically 'blind' while firing and shouldnt see his target once he fires

Originally posted by jinzin

Scott necesarily had to hit Wolverine with all he had since that's what he was commanded to do.

i think this falls under the 'writer not knowing just how powerful cyclops is' heading...



they were, but there was always the tendency by writers to assume he used high level blasts, when his very nature contradicts that... its the beams themselves that are more powerful...



its a deduction based on how powerful his so called 'full power' blasts used to be, and how strong they are nowadays, without him yelling 'full power!' like some member of the superfriends...



same issue? i'll have to find it so...

Originally posted by Starscream M
not a personal supposition, more commensense...

when he fires a beam, his field of vision is covered by red light, hence he is technically 'blind' while firing and shouldnt see his target once he fires

he's ALWAYS firing his blasts. its why he wears the glasses in the first place.

Originally posted by Creshosk
They come out of his eyes all the time. He can't turn em off. In order to see he has to wear ruby quartz lenses to filter out the beams from destroying everything he sees.


What? Do you think the glasses were just a fashion decision? without his visor, he would be technically blind.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Writers giving faulty explination makes for plot induced stupidity. a "weak point" in a light like projection is only made by something blocking it. given the wave like functions of light there would be no "weak point" other than that of right between cyclops's eyes before the beams unite. And perhaps the weak point stays consistent from then on. I'm not about to listen to some argument that has no basis in the real world as it is. It was stated there was a weak point and then proven.

Originally posted by Creshosk
More writer garbage not understanding science. I'll accept that as much as I accept storm flying on solar winds: I don't.

Psy blockers block telepathy. Not telekenisis.
Again what was stated. I really don't care that you don't like it.

Originally posted by Creshosk
and I call bullshit on the feat then,. Congratulations, that's a case of plot induced stupidity. its right up there with Spiderman dancing circles around the X-men and Spiderman's webbing holding nightcrawler.
Cyclops even makes a reference to the fact that Death had studied them inside out. Given Wolverine's historical reference to a weak spot. and several instances where it was proven or supported, this is really not even close to being like Secret Wars Spidey who had multiples of instances which contradicted that one feat. It's not like Cyclops' powers were ignored. A reason was given for it to happen. And it's been a feat replicated on more than one occasion. Like Secret Wars? Hardly.

Originally posted by Creshosk
It has nothing to do with likeing the feat. because I like the events that happened. Jubilee got to help save the day. It has everything to do with feesability. And you're saying that it's not feasable for Cyclops to have a weak point in spite of evidence to the contrary. So calling is bullshit and discarding it VERY MUCH DOES have to do with how it appeals to you.

Originally posted by Creshosk
But mentioning this would require me to assert proof that these non-Einsteinian particles act other than any other particles we've encountered before. They ricochet like regular particles. they interact with our plane's matter with a concussive force. It seems like they act like light with the particle wave duality. And as the burden of proof requires us to assume what's established as the norm until proven otherwise. To make a claim that they would not act like our particles would require evidence.

Even if you do not wish to pick up continuing this defense, whoever does, does so with the challenge for proof attached.

I'm just giving you one possible explanation/theory as to why he may have a "weak spot" in his blast.

Writers make it a point of contention for us to know that his blast is made from "non-Einsteinian" particles in his bios. That basically means the physics behind it is up in the air. It could be argued that it's a plot device in and of itself, in order for the writers to explain the "faulty science" behind it.

Originally posted by Badabing
Don't even try it. The last time you changed stipulations in the middle of a thread there were reports and a few bannings. Default battlefield. oh btw, I clearly didn't intend them to be .5km apart...but I admit it's my fault for not specifying

Originally posted by Starscream M
without his visor, he would be technically blind.

Because he'd keep his eyes closed.

Originally posted by Starscream M
without his visor, he would be technically blind. You need to stop this nonsense. You been proved wrong and people have explained how Cyke's powers work.

Originally posted by Starscream M
without his visor, he would be technically blind. You obviously haven't been reading the recent comics.

He's only blind on the technicallity that his eyes are closed when he doesn't have his visor on. his visor doesn't mean that the beams aren't coming out of his eyes.

And no, he'd just destroy what was in front of him. He keeps his eyes closed when his visor isn't on.

Originally posted by Starscream M
not a personal supposition, more commensense...

when he fires a beam, his field of vision is covered by red light, hence he is technically 'blind' while firing and shouldnt see his target once he fires

Right. Supposition with no proof to back the claims.

Whereas on the other hand, it's widely known that Cyclops' powers are constantly on.

Originally posted by batdude123
I'm just giving you one possible explanation/theory as to why he may have a "weak spot" in his blast.

Writers make it a point of contention for us to know that his blast is made from "non-Einsteinian" particles in his bios. That basically means the physics behind it is up in the air. It could be argued that it's a plot device in and of itself, in order for the writers to explain the "faulty science" behind it.

the blasts overlap, hence them appearing to be joining together... its the messed up energy they're composed of, it was never really explained...

Originally posted by Starscream M
oh btw, I clearly didn't intend them to be .5km apart...but I admit it's my fault for not specifying Your intentions were not clear in the opening post. therefore are irrelevant. So just stop.

Originally posted by Badabing
You need to stop this nonsense. You been proved wrong and people have explained how Cyke's powers work. umm...who has proved that Cyke would see without his visor?

yeah, no one...at least not yet.

Im certainly open to evidence, but the guy has always wore a vision device of some sort that would allow him to open his eyes without his rays unleashing. Without such device, he cannot control his rays.

Originally posted by Raoul
i think this falls under the 'writer not knowing just how powerful cyclops is' heading... I don't. "Feels like I'm being crushed by a mountain".

Originally posted by Raoul
they were, but there was always the tendency by writers to assume he used high level blasts, when his very nature contradicts that... its the beams themselves that are more powerful...
its a deduction based on how powerful his so called 'full power' blasts used to be, and how strong they are nowadays, without him yelling 'full power!' like some member of the superfriends...

May I have some comparitive examples outside of collateral damage incidents?

I mean I can empathize for the argument, Wolverine's claws couldn't cut through rock or steel when he first showed up, but later he was stated to cut through anything. I just want to see the degree to which Scott's become stronger. Keeping in mind that the Death example took place in the late 1990's.



Originally posted by Raoul
same issue? i'll have to find it so...
Yes.

Originally posted by Starscream M
umm...who has proved that Cyke would see without his visor?

yeah, no one...at least not yet.

Im certainly open to evidence, but the guy has always wore a vision device of some sort that would allow him to open his eyes without his rays unleashing. Without such device, he cannot control his rays.

Stop the nonsense.....son

Originally posted by Badabing
You need to stop this nonsense. You been proved wrong and people have explained how Cyke's powers work.

Originally posted by batdude123


Whereas on the other hand, it's widely known that Cyclops' powers are constantly on.


sigh


his visor suppresses his beams, so he can see

when he unleashes his beams (hence nullifying his visor's protective mechanism) he is blind for the duration of the blast

Originally posted by batdude123
I'm just giving you one possible explanation/theory as to why he may have a "weak spot" in his blast.

Writers make it a point of contention for us to know that his blast is made from "non-Einsteinian" particles in his bios. That basically means the physics behind it is up in the air. It could be argued that it's a plot device in and of itself, in order for the writers to explain the "faulty science" behind it. And I'm saying its not feesable other than to explain why the writer wanted wolverine to do something he shouldn't be able to do. He's not able to wade through Hulk's fists. He shouldn't be able to wade through a constant physical force that's capable of punching through metal. He doesn't have phasing powers.

I'll right it up to "Stupid explanations by a writer" rather than "faulty science"

Originally posted by Starscream M
umm...who has proved that Cyke would see without his visor?

yeah, no one...at least not yet.

Im certainly open to evidence, but the guy has always wore a vision device of some sort that would allow him to open his eyes without his rays unleashing. Without such device, he cannot control his rays.

HIS BLASTS ARE ALWAYS ON. ITS WHY HE WEARS THE GLASSES/VISOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE VISOR REFLECTS/ABSORBS THE BLASTS THEMSELVES, AS THE LENSES ARE COMPOSED OF RUBY QUARTZ. GOD DAMMIT MAN...

You do realize that even when wearing the visor, the beams are still firing?

Originally posted by Starscream M
umm...who has proved that Cyke would see without his visor?

yeah, no one...at least not yet.

Im certainly open to evidence, but the guy has always wore a vision device of some sort that would allow him to open his eyes without his rays unleashing. Without such device, he cannot control his rays. You were told to stop. by several people. I won't give you any more leeway than anyone else.

Reported for trolling.

Originally posted by Raoul
the blasts overlap, hence them appearing to be joining together... its the messed up energy they're composed of, it was never really explained... Exactly, which is why I find an automatic default to a "weakspot being Bullshit" a bit of jump to conclusions on the matter.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You do realize that even when wearing the visor, the beams are still firing? yes, but the visor neutralizes the beams, so that essentially it stops them from forming materially

Originally posted by Raoul
HIS BLASTS ARE ALWAYS ON. ITS WHY HE WEARS THE GLASSES/VISOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE VISOR REFLECTS/ABSORBS THE BLASTS THEMSELVES, AS THE LENSES ARE COMPOSED OF RUBY QUARTZ. GOD DAMMIT MAN...

Cool it, Ireland.

cyclops can see when blasting, how many people on his team do you think that he would have made a mistake and killed if he didnt have sight. Thats like saying gladiator, superman, or hyperion cant see while blasting when there heat vision is part of there powers.

Answer this question starscream, can havok move his fingers while blasting?

Originally posted by Raoul
HIS BLASTS ARE ALWAYS ON. ITS WHY HE WEARS THE GLASSES/VISOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE VISOR REFLECTS/ABSORBS THE BLASTS THEMSELVES, AS THE LENSES ARE COMPOSED OF RUBY QUARTZ. GOD DAMMIT MAN... so let me ask you, without his glasses or visor

when he opens his eyes and is firing a blast, can he see?

Originally posted by jinzin
I don't. "Feels like I'm being crushed by a mountain".

then we disagree...



what qualifies as a collateral damage incident? im not too sure what the distinction is... i think i know, but im not sure...



does the death example even count?

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes, but the visor neutralizes the beams, so that essentially it stops them from forming materially

no it doesn't.

Originally posted by jinzin
Exactly, which is why I find an automatic default to a "weakspot being Bullshit" a bit of jump to conclusions on the matter.

i don't follow, but i havent been reading alot of the other posts...

Originally posted by Starscream M
so let me ask you, without his glasses or visor

when he opens his eyes and is firing a blast, can he see?

anytime his eyes are open, he's firing, glasses/visor or not... and yes, he can see the entire time... when the visor is on, he sees everything as being yellow, when its not, he sees red...

Originally posted by llagrok
Cool it, Ireland.

Originally posted by carver9


Answer this question starscream, can havok move his fingers while blasting? yeah, because that's analogous to cyke being able to see right?

Cyke can also move his eyeballs when he's firing, so that's irrelevant query

Starscream, either stop trolling and spamming or be warned. Everybody was nice enough to answer your questions and prove you wrong. Any other questions should be addressed here.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t346614.html

Originally posted by Raoul
HIS BLASTS ARE ALWAYS ON. ITS WHY HE WEARS THE GLASSES/VISOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE VISOR REFLECTS/ABSORBS THE BLASTS THEMSELVES, AS THE LENSES ARE COMPOSED OF RUBY QUARTZ. GOD DAMMIT MAN...


Now this guy has more knowledge about cyclops then anyone in here (from what I have read and seen). If youre not listening to anyone else in here starscream then his answer about cyclops should convince you (even though I might like cyclops a little more then he does.).

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes, but the visor neutralizes the beams, so that essentially it stops them from forming materially No they don't
They've already formed. they exist in the space between his eyes and the visor. They come out of his eyes, strike the ruby quartz and are neutralized.

Some explanation about the vibrational frequency of the ruby quartz capable of synchronizing with Cyclops's own personal bio rhythm in order to accomplish this. as its Cyclop's bio rhythm that the particles would vibrate at.

Which is actually feesable as quarts crystals do vibrate at a frequency regularly enough to be used to keep time. It also supports the wave function of the particle.

Originally posted by carver9
Now this guy has more knowledge about cyclops then anyone in here (from what I have read and seen). If youre not listening to anyone else in here starscream then his answer about cyclops should convince you (even though I might like cyclops a little more then he does.).



shock

Originally posted by carver9
Now this guy has more knowledge about cyclops then anyone in here (from what I have read and seen). If youre not listening to anyone else in here starscream then his answer about cyclops should convince you (even though I might like cyclops a little more then he does.).

why does he have more knowledge than anyone else? just because he has a cyclips sig and avatar?

thats nonsense. not saying raoul isn't a cyke expert, but Im not going to base it on his display of fandom for the character.

my question is, when cycke is firing his blast, shouldn't his entire field of vision be filled only with red light...hence making him 'blind'?

cyclops is one of the most precise shooters in comics. All of his blast would be pointless if he is blind while shooting.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so let me ask you, without his glasses or visor

when he opens his eyes and is firing a blast, can he see?

answer this question, Raoul. that's the only thing I want answered, havent got any replies.

Originally posted by Starscream M
why does he have more knowledge than anyone else? just because he has a cyclips sig and avatar?

thats nonsense. not saying raoul isn't a cyke expert, but Im not going to base it on his display of fandom for the character.

my question is, when cycke is firing his blast, shouldn't his entire field of vision be filled only with red light...hence making him 'blind'?

i answered you. TWICE.

his field of vision is red anyways, but thats because the blasts are always firing when his eyes are open. he's always firing, yet he can still see through his glasses/visor...

Originally posted by Starscream M
why does he have more knowledge than anyone else? just because he has a cyclips sig and avatar?

thats nonsense. not saying raoul isn't a cyke expert, but Im not going to base it on his display of fandom for the character.

my question is, when cycke is firing his blast, shouldn't his entire field of vision be filled only with red light...hence making him 'blind'? Originally posted by Badabing
Starscream, either stop trolling and spamming or be warned. Everybody was nice enough to answer your questions and prove you wrong. Any other questions should be addressed here.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t346614.html You had your chance. Warned.

Originally posted by Starscream M
sigh


his visor suppresses his beams, so he can see

when he unleashes his beams (hence nullifying his visor's protective mechanism) he is blind for the duration of the blast

barker

You truly are a moron, aren't you?

His visor doesn't suppress the beams so he can see. It suppresses them so he can open his eyes without destroying everything in sight.

When he has the glasses on, his powers don't just magically stop. HE IS STILL FIRING HIS BLASTS. All the glasses do is absorb his optic blasts. He is still looking "through" his blast field radius.

I mean, I knew you were thick, but Jesus Christ, bro...

Originally posted by carver9
cyclops is one of the most precise shooters in comics. All of his blast would be pointless if he is blind while shooting. dood you misunderstand, he is not blind before he fires...aka he sees the target, then locks on, then fires...so he is perfectly accurate

what Im saying is during the duration of the blast, he is blind. considering most of his blasts are mere seconds, it doesn't hinder him in the least.

Originally posted by jinzin
. Sabretooth can certainly take optic blasts indefinitely anyways.

Originally posted by Starscream M
why does he have more knowledge than anyone else? just because he has a cyclips sig and avatar?

thats nonsense. not saying raoul isn't a cyke expert, but Im not going to base it on his display of fandom for the character.

my question is, when cycke is firing his blast, shouldn't his entire field of vision be filled only with red light...hence making him 'blind'? Do you have any idea who pr1983 even is?

This is like... insane.

Originally posted by Starscream M
dood you misunderstand, he is not blind before he fires...aka he sees the target, then locks on, then fires...so he is perfectly accurate

what Im saying is during the duration of the blast, he is blind. considering most of his blasts are mere seconds, it doesn't hinder him in the least.

stop. PLEASE.

Originally posted by Raoul
i answered you. TWICE.

his field of vision is red anyways, but thats because the blasts are always firing when his eyes are open. he's always firing, yet he can still see through his glasses/visor... alright, that was the answer I was looking for. I don't like it, but I'll accept it.

Originally posted by Starscream M
why does he have more knowledge than anyone else? just because he has a cyclips sig and avatar?

thats nonsense. not saying raoul isn't a cyke expert, but Im not going to base it on his display of fandom for the character.

my question is, when cycke is firing his blast, shouldn't his entire field of vision be filled only with red light...hence making him 'blind'?

You are right, it is red that cyclops see but his target is still visible through it. He can still se everything but everything is in red. The only way you'll know this is by looking at the juggernaut vs xmen fight, they showed juggernaut charging through cyclops blast but it was showing it from cyclops eyes.

The only reason that I said that raoul know anything about cyclops is due to his words, he is very knowledged when it comes to him.

Originally posted by Starscream M
alright, that was the answer I was looking for. I don't like it, but I'll accept it.

finally...

Originally posted by Starscream M
alright, that was the answer I was looking for. I don't like it, but I'll accept it. You've already been warned. Do I need to take things up a notch?

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime


what was so funny when its the truth.

Originally posted by carver9
You are right, it is red that cyclops see but his target is still visible through it. He can still se everything but everything is in red. The only way you'll know this is by looking at the juggernaut vs xmen fight, they showed juggernaut charging through cyclops blast but it was showing it from cyclops eyes.

The only reason that I said that raoul know anything about cyclops is due to his words, he is very knowledged when it comes to him. cool...I think my mistaken interpretation is from the fact that the beam is often depicted as opaque, rather than see through. I accepted Raoul's explanation.

Originally posted by Badabing
You've already been warned. Do I need to take things up a notch? uhh....I said I accepted his explanation for my query.

Originally posted by Starscream M
cool...I think my mistaken interpretation is from the fact that the beam is often depicted as opaque, rather than see through. I accepted Raoul's explanation.

its opaque to everyone else but him...

Originally posted by Raoul
its opaque to everyone else but him... ah ok, cool.

Originally posted by carver9
what was so funny when its the truth.

no it isnt

The Into The Red Zone issue shows Cyke and Sabes squaring off a few times...

- The first one in the appartment Jinzin is correct that Sabes manages to dodge Cyke's blasts and then grab his face. But if memory serves me correctly (and it doesn't always), Scott was wearing his glasses, NOT his visor. I'm pretty sure i'm right in saying this as i remember him saying to Bobby earlier, "Please, it's hard enough pencil beaming my blasts to pop the lock". So you could argue Scott doesn't have the instant blast effect that his visor grants him...ergo there is a visible delay in him getting his hand to his face to pull off his glasses. Sabes has ample time to dodge here.

- Then there is the time where Scott intervenes in the fight between Sabes and Beast. Can't really say much here....Sabes gets blasted then runs off...i think...

- The final bit Jinzin mentioned where Sabes dodges a blast and pretty much lands on Cyke's chest....yup....but i seem to remember nobody was helping Scott when he literally blasted Sabertooth off him. This sets up that symbolic ending of Scott's "X" emblem on the floor, after it got ripped off. But i'm pretty sure nobody helped Scott when he blasted Victor off him.

- Little snippet: when Cyke fires that narrow beam onto Sabes' forehead, it KOs him. Kinda makes the argument that Scott doesn't have the power in a narrow blast to take Sabes down a bit moot, no?

Anyway.....then there is talk about Wolverine taking Scott's best shots and also dodging his beams. Yep, he's done this a few times....Wolverine: Origins certainly springs to mind. The UXM issue where Scott gets trasformed into a Brood - that is not a good example though, as Wolverine's thought bubble shows he is "angling himself to get his shackles hit". In fact, i'm pretty sure Logan thinks to himself that if he was hit full on by the blast, he WOULDN'T take it. Maybe someone can post up that scene and clarify it?

Anyway, so if Wolverine has dodged Scott's beams before, the natural counter is that there are times when he hasn't as well. The old UXMs show this quite a lot (eg. when Wolverine is under Sauron's control, Scott not only dodges Wovlerine's lunge, but KOs him....then there's the scene where he taunts Wolverine to bring him back to his senses fter Proteus screwed him over....then there's the infamous Danger Room scene where Scott takes on all the team (and YES, Wolverine does comment his senses are dulled).

But more recently, Astonishing issue 1 shows Wolverine can be tagged by Scott. When they are all sitting in the Danger Room talking, you can see there is a lot of steam coming off Wolverine, just like he was when he was blased out of the window. Ego, Cyke tagged him there.

Woops...anyway, i've gone off the point. Cyke Vs. Sabes?

Two other instances that pop into my mind.....early X-Factor....Mutant Massacre....Cyke tags and "arguably" KOs Sabes while in the Morlock tunnels. It's debateable as Sabes gets up pretty quickly later. Eitehr way, he's tagged. Then X-Men, vol. 2, early issues.....where Maverick accompanies the Blue Team....you can clearly see a blast from Sctott knocks Sabes off his feet, through a window and across a room. Again, you can't quite tell how this all happened, but it shows Cyke has enough juice in him to knock Victor about. Who wins? I reckon Cyke....once he tags Victor, which i think he is more than capable of doing, then that's it. He can take a few hits maybe, but Scott won't let up until he's got the KO or flayed enough skin and tissue of Sabes.

And to add my thoughts into if Scott can see when he has his eyes open and nothing else covering them...

YES.

As many people have already said, the default setting for when his eyes are open is to have the blasts firing. So even with his glasses or visor covering his eyes, the blasts are nullified by the rubyquartz and thus don't "fire". The distance between his eyes and the actual material itself though....there's optic energy floating around there. So therefore Scott must be able to see with his eyes open. By the way, he fights pretty well with his eyes shut anyway....not saying he'd beat Sabes like this, but he ain't half bad.

Also...i know you shouldn't cite a cartoon as an example....but if you watch an episode of X-Men Evolution where Scott is stranded in the desert by Mystique (sans glasses/visor), there's a nice first person perspective of him opening his eyes. This is how i imagine Scott sees when he fires...

This is how I see it.

Wolverine fanboys hoping in to back Sabretooth.

Why?

Because its obligation. If Character X can beat Sabretooth, then by extension, in most circumstances, Character X would also beat Wolverine. And we can't have that now can we?

Now that you're all enlightened, I'm sure you'll notice this pattern in all the vs Sabretooth threads.

Cyclops wins & makes it look easier than anybody else ever has against Sabes. Also, if these good showings of Scott ain't in his respect thread, they should be

Faceman Violated Me!

Originally posted by Placidity
This is how I see it.

Wolverine fanboys hoping in to back Sabretooth.

Why?

Because its obligation. If Character X can beat Sabretooth, then by extension, in most circumstances, Character X would also beat Wolverine. And we can't have that now can we?

Now that you're all enlightened, I'm sure you'll notice this pattern in all the vs Sabretooth threads.


You don't have to be a "fanboy" nor feel "obligated" to think Creed has a shot at winning here.

The reason why I'm backing Creed here is because Cyclops has been limited in his battlefield effectiveness by a significant degree.

Wolverine and Creed have multiple feats between them that point out to them not only being able to dodge such beams but to take them and still come out on top or at the least a threat.

If the fight gets close up, Cyclops is practically done for, and the battlefield has been changed to a forest. Cyclops is severly hindered, Sabretooth's at home.

No obligation or fanboyism necessary to support Creed in this fight.

Battlefield wasn't changed.

Originally posted by jinzin


Originally posted by Badabing
Don't even try it. The last time you changed stipulations in the middle of a thread there were reports and a few bannings. Default battlefield.

Originally posted by brainchild81
Cyclops wins & makes it look easier than anybody else ever has against Sabes. Also, if these good showings of Scott ain't in his respect thread, they should be

i'm getting to it... paul

also, the red zone? more high scott showings v creed than the opposite way around, imo...

credit to yestinchong for some good posting...

Cool


Even if there was a forest, it'd be nothing but broken trees on the ground in a matter of seconds. You need blocks of Ruby Quartz or Adamantium, or Vibranium for any kind of real cover against Scott

Originally posted by Mindset
Battlefield wasn't changed.




uh... Yes it was.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I guess I should have made more clear the settings, as it's pretty important in this battle.

My intent was that the battle take place in a snow-filled forest, that has trees and other plants, although it isn't dense like a rain forest, there is plenty of cover.

Originally posted by brainchild81
Cool


Even if there was a forest, it'd be nothing but broken trees on the ground in a matter of seconds. You need blocks of Ruby Quartz or Adamantium, or Vibranium for any kind of real cover against Scott

Stealth.

Cyclops.

Originally posted by jinzin
Stealth.

How would he "stealth" when it takes Cyclops like to seconds to level the forest?

Originally posted by llagrok
How would he "stealth" when it takes Cyclops like to seconds to level the forest? It's a natural environment. Given that it's a forest I'm assuming it's a mountainous to semi-mountainous region with other natural features like rivers, bluffs, ridges, and boulders.
The ground is also covered in snow.

What? Scott's going to level everything around him at all times? K...

Originally posted by jinzin
It's a natural environment. Given that it's a forest I'm assuming it's a mountainous to semi-mountainous region with other natural features like rivers, bluffs, ridges, and boulders.
The ground is also covered in snow.

What? Scott's going to level everything around him at all times? K...

You don't think that Scott can clear the area around him?

Is Sabretooth going to "stealth" his way to Scott by using the small rocks and rivers found in forests?

Originally posted by llagrok
You don't think that Scott can clear the area around him?

Is Sabretooth going to "stealth" his way to Scott by using the small rocks and rivers found in forests?

How many forests have you been too?

Small rocks? Or wishful thinking. I live in Colorado, the forests here are littered with big ass boulders.

Rivers provide a level change in the ground. It's pretty academic.

So Scott levels an area around him... and then what? Waits? To what? Outlive an immortal?

Originally posted by jinzin
How many forests have you been too?

Small rocks? Or wishful thinking. I live in Colorado, the forests here are littered with big ass boulders.

Rivers provide a level change in the ground. It's pretty academic.

So Scott levels an area around him... and then what? Waits? To what? Outlive an immortal?

In case you never read any of the x-men comics, Cyclops CAN blast rocks as well.

Forests? I live in Norway, I know plenty of forests....

Finds Sabes trying to hide behind some grass & shoots the shit out of him. Stealth is only good if you got great places to hide. Cyclops is a master tactician & will remove all of them. The Mod stopped the environment from being changed though

Originally posted by llagrok
In case you never read any of the x-men comics, Cyclops CAN blast rocks as well.

Forests? I live in Norway, I know plenty of forests....

Never said that he couldn't Lag but it's nice to see you're still having no trouble trying to force arguments down my mouth that I never made.


It's this simple. On one hand you hae Cyclops who's been limited to the degree in which he can be effective in this fight.

Then we have Sabretooth who is in every way save skill Wolverine's superior.

Multiple examples of Wolverine being a threat to Cyclops.
Dodging his beams in open territory.
Closing ground on him.
Cyclops admitting that Wolverine's even more a threat to him than a guy like Colossus.
Moving faster than a guy who was moving faster than Cyclops could manage to register.
Moving faster than the eye can see multiples of times.
Sabretooth being faster than Wolverine.
Examples of Sabretooth dodging his beam.
Being hit by it and launching himself back at Cyclops pinning him to the ground.
Sabretooth standing up to the full blast of someone that had Cyk's power.
Sabretooth using his stealth and speed to the degree that he was able to track Logan blow out his lit match and disapear, then touch him and vanish again the whole time not being seen, smelled, or heard.

We have a natural environment with multiple spots to hide, set traps, and be stealthy.

And if it came down to it, only one of these guys has night vision.

But Sabretooth still loses.... typical...

Originally posted by brainchild81
Finds Sabes trying to hide behind some grass & shoots the shit out of him. Stealth is only good if you got great places to hide. Cyclops is a master tactician & will remove all of them. The Mod stopped the environment from being changed though

Sabretooth isn't a bad tactician himself, he's not going to hide in the most obvious place, and in all likelyhood wouldn't even be sitting still waiting for Cyk to find him.

When?

Originally posted by Badabing
Don't even try it. The last time you changed stipulations in the middle of a thread there were reports and a few bannings. Default battlefield.

Oh my bad. Didn't see this post.
Thought Cresh was quoting it from another thread or something.

Originally posted by jinzin
Sabretooth isn't a bad tactician himself, he's not going to hide in the most obvious place, and in all likelyhood wouldn't even be sitting still waiting for Cyk to find him.

When?

* i assume Cyke is not going to wait for Creed to attack him either... it is more likely and highly probable of Cyke blasting Creed first than Creed rushing close to Cyke... also, if and only if Creed managed to get close, Cyke is good on H2H also, find a way to clear a decent distance and fire... i believe the blasts travel - if not lightspeed - pretty close to it...

in default environment Sabretooth's probably going to lose 7-8/10

Originally posted by yestinchong



Woops...anyway, i've gone off the point. Cyke Vs. Sabes?

Two other instances that pop into my mind.....early X-Factor....Mutant Massacre....Cyke tags and "arguably" KOs Sabes while in the Morlock tunnels. It's debateable as Sabes gets up pretty quickly later. Eitehr way, he's tagged.

It happened in X-factor # 10. He did KO Creed. Creed did get up but he was still koed for a time
Originally posted by Placidity
This is how I see it.



Wolverine fanboys hoping in to back Sabretooth.

Why?

Because its obligation. If Character X can beat Sabretooth, then by extension, in most circumstances, Character X would also beat Wolverine. And we can't have that now can we?

Now that you're all enlightened, I'm sure you'll notice this pattern in all the vs Sabretooth threads.

Truer word have never been spoken

Originally posted by llagrok
You don't think that Scott can clear the area around him?

Is Sabretooth going to "stealth" his way to Scott by using the small rocks and rivers found in forests?

The OP says Cyc is limited to narrow percission blasts... just FYI.