Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is adamantium Sabertooth and this is wolverine before his downgrade (before part of his soul got taken).

Who gets the majority.

By the way namor has his suit on so that he wont dehydrate during combat.

2/10 to team 1. They have to act quickly.

Team 2 stomp.

I give the edge to team 1

Team 2 in an epic stomp.

Wolverine has already beaten both thing and namor by himself. Sabertooth>wolverine. Sabertooth takes namor out while wolverine one shot thing again.

How to spot a Wolverine from 1000 miles away?

go here
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t487575.html


See this
Originally posted by carver9
wolverine one shot Thing again.

This be a forum battle - mr yellow spandex has been KTFO by much less than a solid punch from old blue eyes -

imo - (much as i love him) Wolverine gets KTFO
and Tooth gets KTFO or thrown ..far..far away - class 100 is nothing to f**k with.

especially when you dont push even a quater of that together.

Namor rampages 9/10

the 1 is for the Stab the might get on Namor - if he doesnt catch there hands and pin them to their chests - proceed to throw with full might..elsewhere.

maybe..

Originally posted by Juk3n
How to spot a Wolverine from 1000 miles away?

go here
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t487575.html


See this


This be a forum battle - mr yellow spandex has been KTFO by much less than a solid punch from old blue eyes -

imo - (much as i love him) Wolverine gets KTFO
and Tooth gets KTFO or thrown ..far..far away - class 100 is nothing to f**k with.

especially when you dont push even a quater of that together.

Namor rampages 9/10

the 1 is for the Stab the might get on Namor - if he doesnt catch there hands and pin them to their chests - proceed to throw with full might..elsewhere.

maybe..

Wolverine has taken a wealth of class 100 punches and stood up to them far more often then been put down by less (in non-circumstantial evidence). Dealing with brick shots is a norm for Wolverine. Beating Namor, beating Thing? Also a norm for Wolverine.

Catch their hands and pin them to their chests huh?
Yeah... certainly worked before.




http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4757/firstnamorencounterjn2.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4439/namorrfz8.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7402/newinamor5dn2.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3633/wolverine4504sw2vy1.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/565/whatifnamorwt4.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2346/ff7418aa4.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3907/ffthing3ca0.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5893/x4thing2wc0.jpg
skrull
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5770/thingwolviezy0.jpg

Wolverine has never taken a lot of Namor's punches. Namor has hit him with steel girders and trees and stuff, but Wolverine has never taken many punches in quick succession.

And what is a "what if" issue supposed to prove?

Wolverine can take Thing alone.
Wolveirne can take Namor alone.
Sabretooth is> Wolverine.

It's not hard to figure out.

The only team with a healing factor that's not completely contingent on water's the only team taking this fight home.

Originally posted by llagrok
Wolverine has never taken a lot of Namor's punches. Namor has hit him with steel girders and trees and stuff, but Wolverine has never taken many punches in quick succession.

And what is a "what if" issue supposed to prove? And he's not about to start here. That's the problem when you're up against a guy who's fighting back.

sorry didn't see that last part. Just posted that out sheer spite really. Guess it COULD prove what'd happen if Logan hit Namor in the head.

Originally posted by jinzin
sorry didn't see that last part. Just posted that out sheer spite really. Guess it COULD prove what'd happen if Logan hit Namor in the head.

Proves what would happen in a what if comic. They're generally incorrect. Unless you believe that Black Bolt could instantly decimate The Sentry with a whisper.

Wolverine has stabbed Namor in the chest like 4 times, and it only affected him once. Hmmm

If on-panel battles always went the way they REALLY should it would be a boring ass Universe don't you think?

Are you seriously SERIOUSLY in a serious straite faced way telling me that, Namor's class +100 strength could not hold the Wolverines arms at bay rending him completely harmless?

and i want to be clear here, you think that a mutant with 1 maybe 2 tonne at a stretch lifting strength is breaking his wrists free from the grip of a class 100? i dont.

Wolve and tooth get manhandled. imo

Does any of what ive just said really sound that farfetched?

Breaking the grip of someone 100 times your strength superior - like i said if all on-panel fight went exactly the way they SHOULD it would be very boring.

Originally posted by llagrok
Proves what would happen in a what if comic. They're generally incorrect. Unless you believe that Black Bolt could instantly decimate The Sentry with a whisper.

Wolverine has stabbed Namor in the chest like 4 times, and it only affected him once. Hmmm So what do you think would happen if Wolverine got a clawed uppercut on Namor?

Tossing it out simply because its a what if is illogical. Tossing something out purely for the source is the "poisoning the wells" fallacy.

The "gore people to death" incident above actually ends with Namor knocking Wolverine unconscious a few seconds later.

Thing has KOd him as well.

Sabretooth may be > Wolverine, but Wolverine's only real offensive advantage against these guys is the length of his claws, ST can't do as much damage to either of these guys as Wolvy can.

falses it dropped him twices. and another time namor had to flee to water.

Originally posted by Juk3n
If on-panel battles always went the way they REALLY should it would be a boring ass Universe don't you think?

Are you seriously SERIOUSLY in a serious straite faced way telling me that, Namor's class +100 strength could not hold the Wolverines arms at bay rending him completely harmless?

and i want to be clear here, you think that a mutant with 1 maybe 2 tonne at a stretch lifting strength is breaking his wrists free from the grip of a class 100? i dont.

Wolve and tooth get manhandled. imo

Does any of what ive just said really sound that farfetched?

Breaking the grip of someone 100 times your strength superior - like i said if all on-panel fight went exactly the way they SHOULD it would be very boring. And who's to decide what "on-panel" feats are usable? Basically your saying we should just toss out all comics and listen to you.

How do we know what a character is capable of? Its in the comics. Tossing something out simply because you don't like it is illogical. Determining reality by what YOU think should happen is the wishful thinking fallacy.

Originally posted by Scoobless
The "gore people to death" incident above actually ends with Namor knocking Wolverine unconscious a few seconds later.


from behind...............and after Logan dropped him and his elite guard.

Originally posted by Scoobless
The "gore people to death" incident above actually ends with Namor knocking Wolverine unconscious a few seconds later.

Thing has KOd him as well.

Sabretooth may be > Wolverine, but Wolverine's only real offensive advantage against these guys is the length of his claws, ST can't do as much damage to either of these guys as Wolvy can. Sabes is the one whom knocked classic rogue out by slamming her around. You know back when she had the old Ms. Marvel powers. he's got some strength on him.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And who's to decide what "on-panel" feats are usable? Basically your saying we should just toss out all comics and listen to you.

How do we know what a character is capable of? Its in the comics. Tossing something out simply because you don't like it is illogical. Determining reality by what YOU think should happen is the wishful thinking fallacy.

i never said i what i say is right, i just want someone to tell me with full conviction that a class 1.5 will break the grip of a class 100.

thats it.

doesnt seem too un-reasonalble.

Originally posted by Juk3n
i never said i what i say is right, i just want someone to tell me with full conviction that a class 1.5 will break the grip of a class 100.

thats it.

doesnt seem too un-reasonalble. Are we counting the times that wolverine has broken free from spiderman's webbing, the same stuff that held Thing?

Though question for you, if evidence from the comics was to even be used would you bother to look at and or accept it? Or would you brush it off in favor of what you think should have happened?

Originally posted by Juk3n
i never said i what i say is right, i just want someone to tell me with full conviction that a class 1.5 will break the grip of a class 100.

thats it.

doesnt seem too un-reasonalble.

Its not unreasonable-you woudn't be able to break the grip of someone 5 x stronrger than you, let alone 100 x

yes but why does anyone assume thing will be able to get his hands on the faster, more experiences, far better trained and skilled fighter?

ii take whatever feats shown in canon comics as what they are. Proof is proof afterall, doesnt mean i have to agree or like it - opinions aernt illegal.

and for the sake of argument things like Logan breaking out of webbing that held Thing wee probably more to do with the story arc than to do with Logan being physically stronger than Grimm.


unless, ofcourse by that feat you are imposing on me that Logan IS infact 'tug of war' stronger than thing?

Originally posted by llagrok
Proves what would happen in a what if comic. They're generally incorrect. Unless you believe that Black Bolt could instantly decimate The Sentry with a whisper.

Wolverine has stabbed Namor in the chest like 4 times, and it only affected him once. Hmmm
As I stated I only threw it in for spite, or to make the point more effective.
And...
Actually he's effected Namor EVERY time he's stabbed him.

He cut Namor in the mind control fight, but it looks to be more of a glancing blow.

In Invaders it put Namor down.
In Civil War it put Namor down. (he got up but he was TKO'd)
In Namor it hurt him enough to dive into a pool.

hmmmmm...

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes but why does anyone assume thing will be able to get his hands on the faster, more experiences, far better trained and skilled fighter?

yes battle hammer you are correct there, unfortunatley the guy that is very angry at me did not give that response, .

But yes u are correct catching Wolvie and Sabretooth is a different matter, my point was that IF namor caught them by the hands..they have very slim chance of breaking free from a class 100 grip before they get swung around and thrown very far.

edit

Originally posted by Juk3n
If on-panel battles always went the way they REALLY should it would be a boring ass Universe don't you think?

Are you seriously SERIOUSLY in a serious straite faced way telling me that, Namor's class +100 strength could not hold the Wolverines arms at bay rending him completely harmless?

and i want to be clear here, you think that a mutant with 1 maybe 2 tonne at a stretch lifting strength is breaking his wrists free from the grip of a class 100? i dont.

Wolve and tooth get manhandled. imo

Does any of what ive just said really sound that farfetched?

Breaking the grip of someone 100 times your strength superior - like i said if all on-panel fight went exactly the way they SHOULD it would be very boring.

I never said that Namor's strength isn't enough to hold Wolverine down. What I AM saying is that Namor's never been in the position to do that, and he never will be. It comes with the territory of fighting a character who's a bit faster, better fighter, with a longer reach and has more acrobatic agility.

I think that Namor would be having a hell of a time just trying not to get mauled by Sabretooth or Wolverine nevermind noncholantly grabbing them by the wrists... Even attempting something like that is a risk of getting his hands chopped to cutlets.

And just to let you know ignoring on panel in canon evidence that's been consistent over a 20 year span sets up a VERY weak argument.

Originally posted by Juk3n
yes battle hammer you are correct there, unfortunatley the guy that is very angry at me did not give that response, .

But yes u are correct catching Wolvie and Sabretooth is a different matter, my point was that IF namor caught them by the hands..they have very slim chance of breaking free from a class 100 grip before they get swung around and thrown very far.

you be surprized. Logan has gotten out of hulks gripp before. weaker opponets can get out of stronger opponets grips.

Originally posted by Scoobless
The "gore people to death" incident above actually ends with Namor knocking Wolverine unconscious a few seconds later.

Thing has KOd him as well.

Sabretooth may be > Wolverine, but Wolverine's only real offensive advantage against these guys is the length of his claws, ST can't do as much damage to either of these guys as Wolvy can.
Namor KO'd Logan who turned his back to Rex to fight his guards. Namor was on the ground, TKO'd.

Thing KO'd Logan after Logan was used like a battering ram into Thing, which also put Thing down briefly. And that was before Fatal Attractions anyways.

As for Sabretooth.


YES HE CAN....
lol

Actually Sabretooth's claws have been stated as 6 inches in length. The fact that he has class 15 strength and a higher level of durability than that even makes him a SERIOUS threat to either Namor OR Thing.

Originally posted by Juk3n
yes battle hammer you are correct there, unfortunatley the guy that is very angry at me did not give that response, .

But yes u are correct catching Wolvie and Sabretooth is a different matter, my point was that IF namor caught them by the hands..they have very slim chance of breaking free from a class 100 grip before they get swung around and thrown very far.



I'm not "very angry"... hehehe!

Originally posted by jinzin
And just to let you know ignoring on panel in canon evidence that's been consistent over a 20 year span sets up a VERY weak argument.

i ignored nothing, i simply gave an opinion.

But fine you know what i'll just go along with whatever, i dont wanna argue over they bloody internet.

Wolvie wins , fine.

Originally posted by Juk3n
i ignored nothing, i simply gave an opinion.

But fine you know what i'll just go along with whatever, i dont wanna argue over they bloody internet.

Wolvie wins , fine.

Originally posted by Juk3n
ii take whatever feats shown in canon comics as what they are. Proof is proof afterall, doesnt mean i have to agree or like it - opinions aernt illegal.

and for the sake of argument things like Logan breaking out of webbing that held Thing wee probably more to do with the story arc than to do with Logan being physically stronger than Grimm.


unless, ofcourse by that feat you are imposing on me that Logan IS infact 'tug of war' stronger than thing? Or its those foot long blades that are capable of cutting through 'things' that hold him.

I'm also curious as to the assumption that Wolverine and or sabertooth would be grabbed in the first place.

Seems a bit leaning toward thing's favor right off the start don't you think?

Originally posted by jinzin


I'm not "very angry"... hehehe!

and that wasnt about you

Originally posted by Juk3n
i ignored nothing, i simply gave an opinion.

But fine you know what i'll just go along with whatever, i dont wanna argue over they bloody internet.

Wolvie wins , fine.

Then I'd suggest you stay out of a debate forum.. you know a place that's designed SPECIFICALLY to argue over the 'bloody' Internet.

and yes, the VERSUS forum is just one such forum. a place where people come to argue over trivial things in a place that doesn't matter. on the bloody Internet.

Who's the angry guy? You're the one who used a strong explicative.

Originally posted by jinzin


dont be, the evidence was presented, i can't argue, wolverine wins, it has been made simple..now i understand and have seen the errors in my statements.

I'm

Because....
IF:
Originally posted by Juk3n
But fine you know what i'll just go along with whatever, i dont wanna argue over they bloody internet.




THEN:


Aren't you kinda in the wrong place?

Originally posted by Juk3n
If on-panel battles always went the way they REALLY should it would be a boring ass Universe don't you think?

Are you seriously SERIOUSLY in a serious straite faced way telling me that, Namor's class +100 strength could not hold the Wolverines arms at bay rending him completely harmless?

and i want to be clear here, you think that a mutant with 1 maybe 2 tonne at a stretch lifting strength is breaking his wrists free from the grip of a class 100? i dont.

Wolve and tooth get manhandled. imo

Does any of what ive just said really sound that farfetched?

Breaking the grip of someone 100 times your strength superior - like i said if all on-panel fight went exactly the way they SHOULD it would be very boring.

...

...

...

Namor or Thing grabbing Wolverine by the wrists with out losing a limb is about as likely as me catching an spinning airplane propeller without losing my hands and it completely tearing me to shreads.

Could Namor hold Wolverine in place if he managed to grab both his arms? Sure... but the chances of him catching Wolverine by the wrist with having his arm lopped off at the elbow is pretty slim.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes but why does anyone assume thing will be able to get his hands on the faster, more experiences, far better trained and skilled fighter?







Your not giving Ben much love there, Wolverine has been touched by much slower, less experienced, skilled and trained opponents than Ol' blue eyes. And with current Wolverines HF being cut back considerably, he better not get let either Ben nor Namor get in anything worth while because it will most definitely be lights out. Sabertooth IMO can do less damage than Logan can to these two. I think Ben will have a new fur rug and Namor a pet while landside. I'll let you pick who gets whom.

Team 2 9/10

Originally posted by The Illuminati




Your not giving Ben much love there, Wolverine has been touched by much slower, less experienced, skilled and trained opponents than Ol' blue eyes. And with current Wolverines HF being cut back considerably, he better not get let either Ben nor Namor get in anything worth while because it will most definitely be lights out. Sabertooth IMO can do less damage than Logan can to these two. I think Ben will have a new fur rug and Namor a pet while landside. I'll let you pick who gets whom.

Team 2 9/10 Not just touched, grabbed, as in grabbing the wrist, a really small target, two of them, you grab his one wrist, he cuts off your arm.

Those scans seem selective to say the least. They either cut off mid-fight or in some cases even show a draw.
Also, to call that time Wolverine dropped Namor for like 5 seconds a TKO is a bit much. In that case frigging Marrow has a TKO win over Wolverine because he was f'ed up for a lot longer. And so he forced Namor into a pool, so what? Namor used the enviroment to his advantage and knocked Logan silly in that fight. Hell Namor didnt even want to fight.
Moving on, I think Thing has a much better shot against Sabretooth than he does against Wolverine. For a guy whos supposed to be pretty much on par with Wolverine in the H2H department, Creed sure doesnt show it a lot. I can see Thing taking him out.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Those scans seem selective to say the least. They either cut off mid-fight or in some cases even show a draw.
Also, to call that time Wolverine dropped Namor for like 5 seconds a TKO is a bit much. In that case frigging Marrow has a TKO win over Wolverine because he was f'ed up for a lot longer. And so he forced Namor into a pool, so what? Namor used the enviroment to his advantage and knocked Logan silly in that fight. Hell Namor didnt even want to fight.
Moving on, I think Thing has a much better shot against Sabretooth than he does against Wolverine. For a guy whos supposed to be pretty much on par with Wolverine in the H2H department, Creed sure doesnt show it a lot. I can see Thing taking him out.

The scans being selective was part of the point. The scans point out the inprobability of grabbing a guy like Wolverine by the wrists. Wolverine has a 100% consistency of NOT being grabbed by the wrists, and being able to take fights to both Thing and Namor. And win them.

Marrow was able to jab a bone in Logan's throat yes, Logan went down for a few moments yes, but that wasn't during a fight was it? With Namor it WAS, Wolverine dropped Namor, Wolverine could have finished him easily. Had Wolverine been bloodlusted, had Namor's guards not been there to distract Wolverine, Namor would be dead.
Namor wasn't saved by his fighting ability, he wasn't able to heal faster than Logan could dish out damage, he wasn't uneffected.. He was saved by his imperial guard. Without whom he would not have pulled an advantage.

The reference to Namor's mini is simply because someone felt that Namor's been uneffected when stabbed. That's not the case as evidenced by Namor retreating into a pool.
So what you ask?
So he wasn't effected, he had to retreat to heal, that's the point.
And just for reference, Wolverine didn't want to fight, Namor obviously wanted to fight more than Wolverine since he threw the first punch.

Creed isn't on par with Logan in h2h, he's slightly behind. That's one of the only reasons Wolverine manages to last as long against Creed as he does. Thing would still lose to him though.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Tossing it out simply because its a what if is illogical. Tossing something out purely for the source is the "poisoning the wells" fallacy.

Only problem with this, Cresh, is that using this logic we could then use every portrayal of a character to use in debate. For example, I tried using the instance of Spider-Man temporarily defeating Wolverine (Wolverine only won in the end because of a teleportation technology he had going for him) in a What-If issue as evidence to what the real Spidey could do to the real Wolverine, only to have it bashed by the Wolverine supporters because it was a What-If.

Point is, it's purely natural for all of us to want to pick and choose what instances we use. We all say that we're unbiased and fair, but we can't help but want to use any positive evidence that we can to further our debate.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Only problem with this, Cresh, is that using this logic we could then use every portrayal of a character to use in debate. Equivocation much?

You could always discard a feat because its illogical rather than discarding a feat because of the source.

Bush is generally perceived to be an idiot. But if he says the sky is blue, you can't say that its wrong simply because it was said by an idiot.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
For example, I tried using the instance of Spider-Man temporarily defeating Wolverine (Wolverine only won in the end because of a teleportation technology he had going for him) in a What-If issue as evidence to what the real Spidey could do to the real Wolverine, only to have it bashed by the Wolverine supporters because it was a What-If. I'm sorry I don't recall that issue, so I can't tell you if there was a problem with it.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Point is, it's purely natural for all of us to want to pick and choose what instances we use. We all say that we're unbiased and fair, but we can't help but want to use any positive evidence that we can to further our debate. And if something doesn't logically fit that's when you have to question it. we discard 616 evidence because its illogical.

Wolverine taking that "napalm" with his pants intact and just fine afterwards is inconsistant. Wolverine climbing out of a at of molten steel and walking away is illogical as "how did he move" even if he could survive it.

We don't discard it because it came from such and such a book.

In this case calling out "That's a what if" makes no logical sense because we've seen that Namor's skin can be penetrated as shown on other occasions. What's illogical about the showing other than it didn't happen in the 616 timeline?

Are you saying his chin CAN'T be penetrated because its too tough despite his other skin being punctured? Are you saying he'd be able to take it just fine?

Sorry... poisoning the wells falacy still stands. and your equivocation doesn't fly.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

...

...

Namor or Thing grabbing Wolverine by the wrists with out losing a limb is about as likely as me catching an spinning airplane propeller without losing my hands and it completely tearing me to shreads.

Could Namor hold Wolverine in place if he managed to grab both his arms? Sure... but the chances of him catching Wolverine by the wrist with having his arm lopped off at the elbow is pretty slim.

Not a very good analogy, srank. An airplane propeller is all blade, while Wolvie's arms/wrists only have the blades at the ends. It would just be a dumb move in general.

Also, the analogy is faulty because Thing and Namor also have superhuman durability. So they actually could catch a spinning airplane propeller, or possibly Wolverine's wrists.

Especially Namor. Isn't this the same guy that catches super-fast missiles out of the air like it's his job?
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=010catchesmissilestta10on7.jpg

Now, I won't argue that it hasn't happened the way you describe it. Because well, it does. Against Namor, Wolverine's usually been shown to have the upper hand. My only beef is that it goes against Namor's confirmed abilities, and that's what gets to me.

Why he wouldn't be able to dodge Wolvie's claws is really beyond me, as he's able to dodge things traveling at Mach/sonic speeds.
http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0112dodgessonarcannonimop2.jpg

Snatching an already-fired harpoon out of the air only inches from impaling Cap:
http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=022catchesaharpooncasolhp0.jpg

Able to tag Whizzer with apparent ease on two different ocassions:
http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=023vswhizzerdfv1013fs8.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=024vswhizzeravv1115sl0.jpg

And then there was the recent fight in which Namor WTF-pwns Wolverine, even after Wolvie sucker-punched him:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Untitled-Scanned-01-21.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Untitled-Scanned-02-17.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Untitled-Scanned-03-11.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Untitled-Scanned-04-10.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Untitled-Scanned-05-10.jpg

But, whatever. It's pretty pointless most of the time trying to debate these kinds of things against Wolverine.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Equivocation much?

You could always discard a feat because its illogical rather than discarding a feat because of the source.

Bush is generally perceived to be an idiot. But if he says the sky is blue, you can't say that its wrong simply because it was said by an idiot.

I'm sorry I don't recall that issue, so I can't tell you if there was a problem with it.

And if something doesn't logically fit that's when you have to question it. we discard 616 evidence because its illogical.

Wolverine taking that "napalm" with his pants intact and just fine afterwards is inconsistant. Wolverine climbing out of a at of molten steel and walking away is illogical as "how did he move" even if he could survive it.

We don't discard it because it came from such and such a book.

In this case calling out "That's a what if" makes no logical sense because we've seen that Namor's skin can be penetrated as shown on other occasions. What's illogical about the showing other than it didn't happen in the 616 timeline?

Are you saying his chin CAN'T be penetrated because its too tough despite his other skin being punctured? Are you saying he'd be able to take it just fine?

Sorry... poisoning the wells falacy still stands. and your equivocation doesn't fly.

I'm confused here. I wasn't arguing for Wolverine nor Namor when I posted this. I was only merely trying to point out something that doesn't seem to work here on KMC. It doesn't matter how logical an instance is, if it is a What-If it always gets thrown out by debators. Believe me, I tried.

You and I are in the same boat, Cresh. I, too, am all for throwing extremely illogical instances even when they're 616. But I'm also all for using credible, logical instances in What-Ifs, too.

I wasn't arguing that Namor can't be cut. I know he can. It's been done numerous times. I think you're getting my post confused with someone else's. So, in short, I'm not really sure why you're arguing with me.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Not a very good analogy, srank. An airplane propeller is all blade, while Wolvie's arms/wrists only have the blades at the ends. It would just be a dumb move in general.

Also, the analogy is faulty because Thing and Namor also have superhuman durability. So they actually could catch a spinning airplane propeller, or possibly Wolverine's wrists.

Especially Namor. Isn't this the same guy that catches super-fast missiles out of the air like it's his job?
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=010catchesmissilestta10on7.jpg

Now, I won't argue that it hasn't happened the way you describe it. Because well, it does. Against Namor, Wolverine's usually been shown to have the upper hand. My only beef is that it goes against Namor's confirmed abilities, and that's what gets to me.

Why he wouldn't be able to dodge Wolvie's claws is really beyond me, as he's able to dodge things traveling at Mach/sonic speeds.
http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0112dodgessonarcannonimop2.jpg

Snatching an already-fired harpoon out of the air only inches from impaling Cap:
http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=022catchesaharpooncasolhp0.jpg

Able to tag Whizzer with apparent ease on two different ocassions:
http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=023vswhizzerdfv1013fs8.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=024vswhizzeravv1115sl0.jpg

And then there was the recent fight in which Namor WTF-pwns Wolverine, even after Wolvie sucker-punched him:


Catching a rocket out of the air, or a harpoon, dodging a beam.. this is all standard stuff for even some of the most basic street level feats. They're all able to deal with that kind od thing accordingly.
Wolverine's knocked multiple rockets, and rockets powered darts out of the air at once, I wouldn't call him too fast for Namor to touch.

At no point as Namor's implied capabilities or on panel showings dictated that he should be able to grab Wolverine's wrist with no trouble, nothing about his "confrimed capabilities" suggests otherwise.
There's a reason why Captain America gives him massive issues every time they engage eathother and it's not because he's too fast for Cap.

As for the recent fight. Namor threw the first sucker punch. Wolverine went *** for tat and Namor had to retreat to water. Had the water not been there to run to Namor wouldn't have faired anywhere NEAR as well as evidenced by every fight they've had before that.

Originally posted by jinzin
Catching a rocket out of the air, or a harpoon, dodging a beam.. this is all standard stuff for even some of the most basic street level feats. They're all able to deal with that kind od thing accordingly.
Wolverine's knocked multiple rockets, and rockets powered darts out of the air at once, I wouldn't call him too fast for Namor to touch.

At no point as Namor's implied capabilities or on panel showings dictated that he should be able to grab Wolverine's wrist with no trouble, nothing about his "confrimed capabilities" suggests otherwise.
There's a reason why Captain America gives him massive issues every time they engage eathother and it's not because he's too fast for Cap.

As for the recent fight. Namor threw the first sucker punch. Wolverine went *** for tat and Namor had to retreat to water. Had the water not been there to run to Namor wouldn't have faired anywhere NEAR as well as evidenced by every fight they've had before that.

I seriously doubt he had to "retreat" to water, if you had that power wouldn't you want to be at your fullest potential? I think he just wanted to be fully powered when he kicked wolverines ass....

Originally posted by TheBigBoss
I seriously doubt he had to "retreat" to water, if you had that power wouldn't you want to be at your fullest potential? I think he just wanted to be fully powered when he kicked wolverines ass....

Which is why he was lutching his chest.

I mean we all know Namor's not a warrior king and always looks for loopholes to beat his opponents.

Not like Wolverine's put him down with stabs two times before.. of course he didn't have to retreat to water.

Originally posted by jinzin
Which is why he was lutching his chest.

I mean we all know Namor's not a warrior king and always looks for loopholes to beat his opponents.

Not like Wolverine's put him down with stabs two times before.. of course he didn't have to retreat to water.

He wasn't retreating he was keeping his distance

Retreating.

There's a difference between keeping a safe distance and booking ass into a plot device. He mae a run/dive for it.

Originally posted by jinzin
Retreating.

There's a difference between keeping a safe distance and booking ass into a plot device. He mae a run/dive for it.

He didn't run/dive for it, while wolverine was halfway inside the wall from Namors punch, Namor casually walked over to the water and got in.

now you're just making shit up. The pool was a good 10 to 20 feet away. There was NO casual walking to the pool. He dove in.

With Wolverine being launched through the air from one side of the school to the other with the punch before he got stabbed to Wolverine being barely embeded in a brick wall that was 2 feet behind him AFTER being stabbed, it's pretty obvious why.

You don't think that before the fight was stopped, and wolverine was in the wall, that namor couldn't have walked up to him and grabbed and restrained his arms?

NO... The fight wasn't stopped and Wolverine wasn't even phased by that punch. Hence his ability to spring up and lunch himself to the pool shield.

i meant when he was on the ground saying his organs needed repairing or whatever, i think he was pretty vulnerable right there.

Originally posted by jinzin
As for the recent fight. Namor threw the first sucker punch. Wolverine went *** for tat and Namor had to retreat to water. Had the water not been there to run to Namor wouldn't have faired anywhere NEAR as well as evidenced by every fight they've had before that.

Of course, Namor threw the first sucker punch. What with Wolverine's claws mere centimeters from his face. No evidence of a threat or possible fight there.

If Wolverine's so damn fast, how come he didn't avoid the punch from Namor? I mean, he was he ready, he wasn't caught off-guard, he wasn't mind-controlled...but still wasn't able to avoid the hit. And please, don't tell me that he let himself get hit (and I know you're better than that, jin, but I still feel like I should ask nicely).

And for that matter, he didn't seem able to even avoid the handicapped punch from Namor that he threw when he was kneeling and clutching his chest from the sucker punch from Wolverine.

Retreating? Namor was using his surroundings to speed up his healing factor. And why not? He was just stabbed. It's not as if he brought the pool with him, he was just being resourceful. If using what's around him to amplify his own already-superhuman abilities is considered retreating, then wouldn't Wolverine using his healing factor in general be analogous?

We also don't know how well Namor would've fared had he not dipped himself in the pool. I'm not arguing that he would be fine, but I don't think he would be completely incapacitated either. He was obviously still able to bring some good fight to Wolverine, even while severely injured.

Eh, that's just my two cents.

Originally posted by TheBigBoss
i meant when he was on the ground saying his organs needed repairing or whatever, i think he was pretty vulnerable right there.

This would be of course AFTER Namor ran to the pool to help himself.

read metal mans post, namor was simply using the environment to his advantage...

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Of course, Namor threw the first sucker punch. What with Wolverine's claws mere centimeters from his face. No evidence of a threat or possible fight there.

If Wolverine's so damn fast, how come he didn't avoid the punch from Namor? I mean, he was he ready, he wasn't caught off-guard, he wasn't mind-controlled...but still wasn't able to avoid the hit. And please, don't tell me that he let himself get hit (and I know you're better than that, jin, but I still feel like I should ask nicely).

And for that matter, he didn't seem able to even avoid the handicapped punch from Namor that he threw when he was kneeling and clutching his chest from the sucker punch from Wolverine.

Retreating? Namor was using his surroundings to speed up his healing factor. And why not? He was just stabbed. It's not as if he brought the pool with him, he was just being resourceful. If using what's around him to amplify his own already-superhuman abilities is considered retreating, then wouldn't Wolverine using his healing factor in general be analogous?

We also don't know how well Namor would've fared had he not dipped himself in the pool. I'm not arguing that he would be fine, but I don't think he would be completely incapacitated either. He was obviously still able to bring some good fight to Wolverine, even while severely injured.

Eh, that's just my two cents. Wolverine stopped.
He wasn't going to attack Namor unless Namor flat out didn't repsect the X-Men's rationale for wanting him gone.
Namor on the other hand threw the first real punch of the fight, that's not up for debate.

Look, Namor and Wolverine are close enough in terms of sheer speed that if they begin to exchange blows, regardless of Wolverine's slim advantage in the area, they're both going to land shots, and no one said that Namor can't.
Namor punching Logan who's trying his version of "reason" doesn't detract from Logan's speed it also doesn't mean Namor's a great wealth faster than him in combat, if he was he wouldn't have been stabbed either.. *** for tat. For the second punch, again they're close enough to exchange blows.

As for the retreat:
Namor doesn't carry a pool around him everywhere he goes.
Wolverine's healing factor is a constant and the swimming pool's a variable.
Since these matches have default arenas, Namor's ability to do well AFTER dipping into the pool is highly irrelivent. Would he have done as well without it? Dunno, but past feats do not indicate as much. Perhaps one stab isn't enough to put Namor down, but it's certainly enough for Logan to open up a massive advantage and has been proven so every time he's stabbed Namor. The difference between the severety of Namor's blows before and after being stabbed could also be an indicator of just how injured he was.

Originally posted by TheBigBoss
read metal mans post, namor was simply using the environment to his advantage... I must have missed the part where this battlefield's littered with pools.

Originally posted by jinzin
I must have missed the part where this battlefield's littered with pools.

no, you missed the part that it takes place on the beach

In the wolvie namor fight wolvies sucker punch was much worse than namors, Namors so called sucker punch came when wolvie shoved his claws a few inches from Namors face. If someone had 2 swords pointed a couple inches from your eyes while threatening you and you hit him, would you call it a sucker punch? When wolvie suckered Namor, Namor was helping him up and thought that the fight was over.

....Anyways if you take away both so called sucker punches Namor dominates this fight. You have to remember that in the fight we created here there isn't going to be a sucker punch, so wolvie never gets that cheap stab in.....Team two takes this 8/10.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wolverine stopped.
He wasn't going to attack Namor unless Namor flat out didn't repsect the X-Men's rationale for wanting him gone.
Namor on the other hand threw the first real punch of the fight, that's not up for debate.

Look, Namor and Wolverine are close enough in terms of sheer speed that if they begin to exchange blows, regardless of Wolverine's slim advantage in the area, they're both going to land shots, and no one said that Namor can't.
Namor punching Logan who's trying his version of "reason" doesn't detract from Logan's speed it also doesn't mean Namor's a great wealth faster than him in combat, if he was he wouldn't have been stabbed either.. *** for tat. For the second punch, again they're close enough to exchange blows.

As for the retreat:
Namor doesn't carry a pool around him everywhere he goes.
Wolverine's healing factor is a constant and the swimming pool's a variable.
Since these matches have default arenas, Namor's ability to do well AFTER dipping into the pool is highly irrelivent. Would he have done as well without it? Dunno, but past feats do not indicate as much. Perhaps one stab isn't enough to put Namor down, but it's certainly enough for Logan to open up a massive advantage and has been proven so every time he's stabbed Namor. The difference between the severety of Namor's blows before and after being stabbed could also be an indicator of just how injured he was.

I think what we're missing here is that it's pretty obvious that Namor has the ability to one-shot Wolverine if he wants to. When Namor smashed Wolverine into the ground (which would be in any environment), he smashed all of his organs and rendered him useless.

And I also realize that a default arena wouldn't have pools. But that doesn't necessarily mean the fight will occur the way it did in this recent fight. I know that goes both ways, and I both understand and accept that.

And I can deal with them being of comparable speeds. That's fine with me, too.

Originally posted by TheBigBoss
no, you missed the part that it takes place on the beach It... doesn't... ?

Originally posted by BrianTheBad
In the wolvie namor fight wolvies sucker punch was much worse than namors, Namors so called sucker punch came when wolvie shoved his claws a few inches from Namors face. If someone had 2 swords pointed a couple inches from your eyes while threatening you and you hit him, would you call it a sucker punch? When wolvie suckered Namor, Namor was helping him up and thought that the fight was over.

....Anyways if you take away both so called sucker punches Namor dominates this fight. You have to remember that in the fight we created here there isn't going to be a sucker punch, so wolvie never gets that cheap stab in.....Team two takes this 8/10. They both hit eachother with their best offensive weapons. Namor with his immense strength, Wolverine with his claws. They were both using suckerpunches.

If you take away both so called sucker punches then you have no idea where the hell the advantage would lie. Multiple fights previous lead one to one conclusion and only one.. Wolverine would win.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I think what we're missing here is that it's pretty obvious that Namor has the ability to one-shot Wolverine if he wants to. When Namor smashed Wolverine into the ground (which would be in any environment), he smashed all of his organs and rendered him useless.
When a brick hits Wolverine all his organs get crushed regardless. That's just what happens when you start getting hit by people and bodyslammed when they can lift 60 tons plus.
Namor has never been capible of one shotting Wolverine. Even in that example that wasn't a one shot, Wolverine was already getting up, smiling, talking whole paragraphs of trash. Wolverine has already had his organs liquified while fighting the Hulk and it did little more than slow him down, to which he was still capible of securing an advantage.
Not saying he would have been capible of doing much after that throw in Namor, but there's also other factors that played into Namor getting into that position in the first place as well as the fact that Wolverine's HF increases/speeds up with his adrenaline and he was still coasting in neutral when he did get slammed.

Namor's chances of one shotting Logan are slim to nil. The same can't be said the other way around.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And I also realize that a default arena wouldn't have pools. But that doesn't necessarily mean the fight will occur the way it did in this recent fight. I know that goes both ways, and I both understand and accept that.
And I can deal with them being of comparable speeds. That's fine with me, too. fair enough.

Originally posted by jinzin


If you take away both so called sucker punches then you have no idea where the hell the advantage would lie. Multiple fights previous lead one to one conclusion and only one.. Wolverine would win.

....except this fight,..namor clearly won

Namor "won" because he was returned to a full bill of health, while Wolverine still had the damage he sustained (healed or not it's still taxing to a point), not to mention the fact that Wolverine thought Namor was secure in his little prison. If you want to argue that Namor won there that's fine, but don't for one second try to present it as the standard between Namor and Wolverine.

Originally posted by carver9


By the way namor has his suit on so that he wont dehydrate during combat. water is irrelevant for this scenario

His suit keeps him at peak outside of water for a longer amount of time. It doesn't heal him from damage like immersing in water does.

Originally posted by jinzin
Namor "won" because he was returned to a full bill of health, while Wolverine still had the damage he sustained (healed or not it's still taxing to a point), not to mention the fact that Wolverine thought Namor was secure in his little prison. If you want to argue that Namor won there that's fine, but don't for one second try to present it as the standard between Namor and Wolverine.

I can agree to that. I don't think you can ever take 1 single battle as the standard "it will always happen that way", and btw i don't think team two stomps i just think they take the majority

I don't. thing the weak link. He loses the vast majority to wolverien or sabertooth

Originally posted by jinzin
Namor "won" because he was returned to a full bill of health, while Wolverine still had the damage he sustained (healed or not it's still taxing to a point), not to mention the fact that Wolverine thought Namor was secure in his little prison. If you want to argue that Namor won there that's fine, but don't for one second try to present it as the standard between Namor and Wolverine.

Just wondering, why would Wolverine's damage be taxing after it had healed, but Namor's isn't?

Namor not sustaining him self. The ocean is powering him.

It a lot different then how wolverines healing factor works

If Jinzin and Battlehammer are online then I say amor solos. If they are online then it's close. biscuits durw00t

Originally posted by Mindset
Just wondering, why would Wolverine's damage be taxing after it had healed, but Namor's isn't? You were not suppose to notice that.

Wolverine's healing factor is a H.O.T ability. Namor diving into the ocean is an instant cast critical heal. Hurray?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine's healing factor is a H.O.T ability. Namor diving into the ocean is an instant cast critical heal. Hurray? So who would win if they fought in heavy rain?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Namor not sustaining him self. The ocean is powering him.

It a lot different then how wolverines healing factor works

So you're assuming the healing doesn't affect him at all?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
So who would win if they fought in heavy rain?



I don't know!

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine's healing factor is a H.O.T ability. Namor diving into the ocean is an instant cast critical heal. Hurray? Someone's an MMORPGer.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Someone's an MMORPGer.

Not that Im a supporter of the "Grab his wrists and pin him down" theory, since I dont think he'd need it, but Sabretooth and Wolverine have been in that situation at least a couple times. It was likely because the artist thought it'd be cool to have them face to face growling at each other mid-fight, but yeah Creed has done it before.

Originally posted by BrianTheBad
I can agree to that. I don't think you can ever take 1 single battle as the standard "it will always happen that way", and btw i don't think team two stomps i just think they take the majority

fair enough.

Originally posted by Mindset
Just wondering, why would Wolverine's damage be taxing after it had healed, but Namor's isn't?
Wolverine's HF though apparently self sustaining still runs on a speed differentiating based on outside factors.

Namor went to a full bill of health after dipping in water.
Wolverine went from 100% healing effeciency to probably about 75 or something of that nature.

Originally posted by Badabing
If Jinzin and Battlehammer are online then I say amor solos. If they are online then it's close. biscuits durw00t





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