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classic 616 for both who takes it, and how much out of 10

hmmmm, good fight

I give apoc 7/10

Thor pulls this one of I consider every ability they have. On the forums Thor can win.

thor

Thor

Originally posted by Starscream M
hmmmm, good fight

I give apoc 7/10
Lulz

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444600&highlight=title%3A%28thor+vs.+apocalypse%29

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444623&highlight=title%3A%28thor+vs.+apocalypse%29

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=486732&highlight=title%3A%28thor+vs.+apocalypse%29

TA-DAAA!

Usethesearch.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444600&highlight=title%3A%28thor+vs.+apocalypse%29

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444623&highlight=title%3A%28thor+vs.+apocalypse%29

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=486732&highlight=title%3A%28thor+vs.+apocalypse%29

TA-DAAA!

Usethesearch.
i did search, all i got was ultamite versions

Originally posted by george '06
i did search, all i got was ultimate versions

don't double post.

Anyway, the rules have a handy section on how properly use the search function to maximum efficiency. You've been a member since 06. Surely you've read them, right?

Also, superlulz, there's ALSO a thread directory for popular characters pinned at the top of the forum. Guess what one of the ones listed is?

biscuits

Originally posted by DigiMark007
don't double post.

Anyway, the rules have a handy section on how properly use the search function to maximum efficiency. You've been a member since 06. Surely you've read them, right?

Also, superlulz, there's ALSO a thread directory for popular characters pinned at the top of the forum. Guess what one of the ones listed is?

biscuits
i was a member for like a week in 06, then lost my password,
got it back about 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by george '06
i was a member for like a week in 06, then lost my password,
got it back about 2 weeks ago

Nice.

Anyway, yeah, just use the directory first, search second (after reading the rules), then make your thread. Hopefully I didn't sound harsh...I was just having fun giving you a hard time.

Thor 10/10.

Apocalypse goes down faster than Sue Richards on Namor.

Apoc stabs him. 131

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Thor 10/10.

Apocalypse goes down faster than Sue Richards on Namor.

thorinn

If Apoc can give High E trouble, who has fought and beaten Thor, then no, it's not an easy win for Thor.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
thorinn

If Apoc can give High E trouble, who has fought and beaten Thor, then no, it's not an easy win for Thor.

*waits for KM*

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
thorinn

If Apoc can give High E trouble, who has fought and beaten Thor, and whose power level fluctuates more than nearly any character in comic-dom, then yes, it's likely an easy win for Thor. Especially when all of Thor's high-end feats trump Apoc's.

Fixed.



Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Thor 10/10.

Apocalypse goes down faster than Sue Richards on Namor.

*savors the visual*

Originally posted by DigiMark007


How does his power level fluctuate more than anyone in comics?

High E has held his own against Galactus, fought a constantly evolving Hercules, and, oh yeah, did I mention he defeated Thor?

Thor 10/10

I just don't see Thor jobbing to the X-Men unlike someone else....

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Thor 10/10

I just don't see Thor jobbing to the X-Men unlike someone else....

Apoc doesn't job to them.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Apoc doesn't job to them.
so he loses because they're superior?




Apocalypse v Thor would definitely be an interesting battle to read ... have they ever crossed paths?

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Apoc doesn't job to them.

Oh, so the X-Men just must be Low Herald + level to beat him than??? or they are overrated?

I think Ult Thor vs Apoc would be better....

Originally posted by janus77
so he loses because they're superior?



Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Oh, so the X-Men just must be Low Herald + level to beat him than??? or they are overrated?

They have never straight up defeated him. In fact, a severely weakened, dying Apocalypse defeated the X-Men during the X-Cutioner's Song...

However, there are two times they overcame Apoc; X-Factor #68 when Cyclops, somehow empowered through his son Nathan and Jean, released an unusually large optic blast that took down Apoc.... yeah I know, it makes no sense. Not much did in that story....


And in that 2006 BoA arc, the X-Men used a Leech-like mutant to depower Apoc in order to defeat him...

Originally posted by janus77
Apocalypse v Thor would definitely be an interesting battle to read ... have they ever crossed paths?

Not directly...

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/cb67pg17.jpg

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Oh, so the X-Men just must be Low Herald + level to beat him than??? or they are overrated?

I think Ult Thor vs Apoc would be better....

When did the X-men ever beat Apocalypse just like that?

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Apoc doesn't job to them.

Thor's a legit planet-buster. Apoc isn't. And he can absorb more damage, definitely more energy and likely more raw physical force as well. Simple as that. Posting a scan where they talk about Apoc's future with Thor standing around doesn't tell us anything.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
And in that 2006 BoA arc, the X-Men used a Leech-like mutant to depower Apoc in order to defeat him...


Leech could only hold for few seconds (Apocalypse has just too much power for Leech to handle and Apocalypse wasn't even prepared for that attack). If Apocalypse would want, then he would defeat them all. He even one shoted them all with his blast (which didn't seem close to his full power).
Apocalypse pretty much himself went to death, to avoid Celestials, but hasn't succeeded.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thor's a legit planet-buster. Apoc isn't. And he can absorb more damage, definitely more energy and likely more raw physical force as well. Simple as that. Posting a scan where they talk about Apoc's future with Thor standing around doesn't tell us anything.

It tells that originally Apocalypse conquered Earth and pretty much erased Avengers.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It tells that originally Apocalypse conquered Earth and pretty much erased Avengers.

So?

Originally posted by Xplosive
It tells that originally Apocalypse conquered Earth and pretty much erased Avengers.

Which he clearly did with prep and resources, not by solo'ing Marvel Earth. So again, what does that scan tell us that's even remotely close to being pertinent to this match? It's honestly reaching to the point of showing a blatant fan-crush, because the scan is clearly meaningless.

It was said several times in comics that Apoc was more powerful than his Doomsday-like minion, the Harbinger, whom the Avenger couldn't beat.

Go by feats on KMC.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
It was said several times in comics that Apoc was more powerful than his Doomsday-like minion, the Harbinger, whom the Avenger couldn't beat.

Still ABC logic, which doesn't hold up. Apoc's feats << Thor's. End of story. The fact that this is what is being resorted to is as much proof of that as we need.

I don't think you can dismiss "ABC logic" so easily, it's probably the least contradictory and most widely applicable form of logic there is for comics.

if you go by "feats", then surely the typical Celestial < Strange, Odin > Galactus (when did the FF ever defeat Odin?) ...

some characters don't get the time in the limelight, they are just presented as being "the big bad", to devalue their intended (the implicit, and occasionally explicit, references to their comparative status with respect to established characters) place in the hierarchy makes it virtually impossible to utilise these characters in the Vs forum at all.

Originally posted by janus77
I don't think you can dismiss "ABC logic" so easily, it's probably the least contradictory and most widely applicable form of logic there is for comics.

if you go by "feats", then surely the typical Celestial < Strange, Odin > Galactus (when did the FF ever defeat Odin?) ...

some characters don't get the time in the limelight, they are just presented as being "the big bad", to devalue their intended (the implicit, and occasionally explicit, references to their comparative status with respect to established characters) place in the hierarchy makes it virtually impossible to utilise these characters in the Vs forum at all.

Celestial < Strange based off of feats?! It doesn't matter you have limited feats. If the few that you DO have are insane feats, then that's your power level until otherwise established. I can think of a couple Celestial feats that easily put them beyond Strange, and it only takes 2-3 before it can be considered a reliable trend.

FF's a horrible example. It was the nullifier, not the FF. Nullifier > Big G. Not FF and therefore Odin. Actually, using ABC logic is the only way to get such a conclusion. FF beat Galactus. Er, who's beaten the FF? Nihilus maybe. Thus, Nihilus > G???

ABC logic is among the least credible methods of debate, imo. We can ABC ourselves to Batman > Galactus in probably 4-5 moves, for example. It can be used occasionally and be a valid way of discussing it, but feats are a far more valid way of deciding.

okay i gofta ask.....is apoc high herald yes or no.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
okay i gofta ask.....is apoc high herald yes or no.
Hell no.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
okay i gofta ask.....is apoc high herald yes or no.

Err, no, but should be Mid-Herald.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Leech could only hold for few seconds (Apocalypse has just too much power for Leech to handle and Apocalypse wasn't even prepared for that attack). If Apocalypse would want, then he would defeat them all. He even one shoted them all with his blast (which didn't seem close to his full power).
Apocalypse pretty much himself went to death, to avoid Celestials, but hasn't succeeded.



It tells that originally Apocalypse conquered Earth and pretty much erased Avengers.

First off, it wasn't Leech, it was a Leech-like character, like Bad Ash said. Apocalypse DOES want to defeat them all, he's just an idiot. If you want to use the crappy "one shotted them all with his blast" put up a scan. If it's from that shitty X-Factor on the moon, I'll show a scan with Cyclops one-shotting him. That issue was like Bad Ash said, quite crap.
He ran from the X-men. He was scared of the X-men, not celestials. He remembered about the celestials as he was dying.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
It was said several times in comics that Apoc was more powerful than his Doomsday-like minion, the Harbinger, whom the Avenger couldn't beat.

So? He also seemed scared of Gambit's "turn the air in your lungs to gas like you taught me to" technique when he was Death...

They're not his creations to say he's more powerful, his horsemen are creations of the celestial tech. His only contribution is putting them in the machines and letting the machines do their job. Stop making it sound like he's Galactus

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
So? He also seemed scared of Gambit's "turn the air in your lungs to gas like you taught me to" technique when he was Death...

They're not his creations to say he's more powerful, his horsemen are creations of the celestial tech. His only contribution is putting them in the machines and letting the machines do their job. Stop making it sound like he's Galactus

Laughing my ass off.

Evil Ash called him Mid-herald and has never wanted him any higher than that. Now he makes it sound as if he's equal to Galactus?

There are other examples though. Moses Magnum being afraid of Apocalypse.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Apocalypse DOES want to defeat them all, he's just an idiot.

Elaborate.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
He ran from the X-men. He was scared of the X-men, not celestials.

I don't remember where it said that Apoc was scared of the X-Men....

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
So? He also seemed scared of Gambit's "turn the air in your lungs to gas like you taught me to" technique when he was Death...

He seemed more impressed by Gambit, and did warn him not babble about love anymore.


It's not like Gambit actually could attack him...

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/achillesheelgambit.png

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
They're not his creations to say he's more powerful

Sinister disagrees.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/CableAnnual1999-02.jpg http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/CableAnnual1999-03.jpg

Speaking of servants, Exodus couldn't do anything to Apoc and Sinister has stated that Apoc would kill him.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
His only contribution is putting them in the machines and letting the machines do their job.

And who controls the machines that transforms his subjects? Apoc.

Originally posted by llagrok
Laughing my ass off.

Evil Ash called him Mid-herald and has never wanted him any higher than that. Now he makes it sound as if he's equal to Galactus?

There are other examples though. Moses Magnum being afraid of Apocalypse.

You completely misunderstood my post.

I didn't say he made it sound like he's equal to Galactus by directly saying it, but by saying that one of "his creations" gave the Avengers problems, it would mean he would also be very powerful since that's "his creation". Except it's not. As opposed to Galactus who also has minions for instance, in which case this sort of logic actually works (saying SS is very powerful ergo imagine how powerful his maker is), with Apocalypse it doesn't. Since he doesn't invest his own powers into a human, turning them into incredibly powerful beings. He takes powerful beings and using technology that isn't his own, let's the machines handle them and upgrade them.

That's why I said he should not be compared with Galactus.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
You completely misunderstood my post.

I didn't say he made it sound like he's equal to Galactus by directly saying it, but by saying that one of "his creations" gave the Avengers problems, it would mean he would also be very powerful since that's "his creation". Except it's not. As opposed to Galactus who also has minions for instance, in which case this sort of logic actually works (saying SS is very powerful ergo imagine how powerful his maker is), with Apocalypse it doesn't. Since he doesn't invest his own powers into a human, turning them into incredibly powerful beings. He takes powerful beings and using technology that isn't his own, let's the machines handle them and upgrade them.

That's why I said he should not be compared with Galactus.

Evil Ash wasn't basing the argument off Apocalypse investing his own power in them, but in the fact that most feared him and he actually controlled them. If Moses Magnum or the Harbinger were so much stronger than him, why did they do his bidding? Why was Moses scared shitless?

Apocalypse's creations have given the Avengers plenty trouble though, that's not a way of interpreting the events, it actually happened.

And Apocalypse being afraid of the X-men? Please. He even welcomed death, just like he did after Stryfe almost killed him. Apocalypse does NOT fear death, that's been proven twice already.

technically they aren't "Apocalypse's creations", but rather modifications/augmentations using technology from The Celestials.

basically he's just a glorified assembler of parts.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Elaborate.

Do you want me to look for a scan with him SAYING he wants the X-men beaten or what?

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
I don't remember where it said that Apoc was scared of the X-Men....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/preacherofnothing/X-Men_19_186.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/preacherofnothing/X-Men_20_186.jpg

My bad, he obviously was going to ESCAPE from the nagging feeling he left something in the oven, definitely not running away from the X-men . Do you NEED a little editor's note saying "While the X-men watch baffled, Apocalypse tries to escape their clutches" ??? Are you in the 60's?

Seriously, your vain attempts at defending him are nothing other than reaching and grasping.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
He seemed more impressed by Gambit, and did warn him not babble about love anymore.

It's not like Gambit actually could attack him...

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/achillesheelgambit.png

Oh really? Cause ya know...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/preacherofnothing/X-Men_15_185.jpg

Given that he was just betrayed by Ozymandias and another horseman, I'd say the only reason he didn't take Gambit out at the first sign of doubt was that he was scared of his abilities. See what I did right there? It's called logic

Oh, also, the art makes him seem somewhat scared, to me at least. Nice out of context two panels you showed however. Classy.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Sinister disagrees.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/CableAnnual1999-02.jpg http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/CableAnnual1999-03.jpg

Speaking of servants, Exodus couldn't do anything to Apoc and Sinister has stated that Apoc would kill him.

What the hell are you talking about? I didn't say his creations could kill him, I said THEY'RE NOT HIS CREATIONS ergo he is not logically more powerful than them. They are independent persons/things enhanced by celestial machinery. Not by him. Therefore, the fact that he created them has no impact on trying to grasp his power level.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
And who controls the machines that transforms his subjects? Apoc.

Oh, ok, so the dude who controls the computer can perform the same tasks as the computer huh? Nice logic there

Originally posted by janus77
technically they aren't "Apocalypse's creations", but rather modifications/augmentations using technology from The Celestials.

basically he's just a glorified assembler of parts.

Ha, finally someone gets what I've been saying, thank you!

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Ha, finally someone gets what I've been saying, thank you!

What does that matter?

He's not using the fact that Apocalypse operated the machines as a feat, but the fact that he was more powerful than his minions....

the logic of the argument is that Apocalypse is more powerful than 'X' because he created 'X', but when it's proven that he did not actually create 'X' it undermines the assertion that he is more powerful than 'X'.

That's not the logic Evil Ash was trying to use....

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Do you want me to look for a scan with him SAYING he wants the X-men beaten or what?

Yes.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
My bad, he obviously was going to ESCAPE from the nagging feeling he left something in the oven, definitely not running away from the X-men . Do you NEED a little editor's note saying "While the X-men watch baffled, Apocalypse tries to escape their clutches" ??? Are you in the 60's?

Seriously, your vain attempts at defending him are nothing other than reaching and grasping.

Where is it said that Apoc is scared of the X-Men? It doesn't


Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Oh really? Cause ya know...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/preacherofnothing/X-Men_15_185.jpg

Given that he was just betrayed by Ozymandias and another horseman, I'd say the only reason he didn't take Gambit out at the first sign of doubt was that he was scared of his abilities.

Scared? Is that why he is saying in the page, you posted, that he would "put his powers to test" if he kept talking about love? I doubt Gambit's gas could kill Apoc, considering his powerful adaptive powers...

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Nice out of context two panels you showed however. Classy.

Out of context?

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
I didn't say his creations could kill him

My point is that Apoc's minions have not shown to be as powerful as him.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Oh, ok, so the dude who controls the computer can perform the same tasks as the computer huh? Nice logic there

pr1983

It's Apocalypse who control the Celestial technology and what it should do through control panels, and usually by simply interfacing with it....

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/apocalypse07.jpg

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/apocinterfacetech1.png

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/ANNxfactor_v1_003_08_rougher.jpg

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
First off, it wasn't Leech, it was a Leech-like character, like Bad Ash said. If you want to use the crappy "one shotted them all with his blast" put up a scan. If it's from that shitty X-Factor on the moon, I'll show a scan with Cyclops one-shotting him. That issue was like Bad Ash said, quite crap.

Am, that was Cyclops with full power of Nate, Jean and himself, not him alone. That blast seemed far more powerful than BB+Inhuman combined.



He defeated them under 60 seconds when was was very weak.
And do you remember that he actually didn't want to kill them?

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
He ran from the X-men. He was scared of the X-men, not celestials. He remembered about the celestials as he was dying.

He didn't run from X-Men, but literally, from Celestials and their punishment to him. He wanted to avoid them by dying, but they didn't let him. And by his monologue in the end, you could clearly see he was running from Celestials.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
So? He also seemed scared of Gambit's "turn the air in your lungs to gas like you taught me to" technique when he was Death...

No, he made Gambit think he could kill him. You could see in the end when he was just walking into that Gambit gas and it was nothing to him.

Magnum was very powerful but less powerful than Apocalypse.
He was also afraid of him.

Sinister said he wouldn't survive a battle against Apocalypse.
Exodus, very powerful, couldn't do anything to him.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
I didn't say he made it sound like he's equal to Galactus by directly saying it, but by saying that one of "his creations" gave the Avengers problems, it would mean he would also be very powerful since that's "his creation".

It's not, but Apocalypse was still clearly more powerful than Moses, therefor Moses being very afraid of him.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

FF's a horrible example. It was the nullifier, not the FF. Nullifier > Big G. Not FF and therefore Odin. Actually, using ABC logic is the only way to get such a conclusion. FF beat Galactus. Er, who's beaten the FF? Nihilus maybe. Thus, Nihilus > G???

ABC logic is among the least credible methods of debate, imo. We can ABC ourselves to Batman > Galactus in probably 4-5 moves, for example. It can be used occasionally and be a valid way of discussing it, but feats are a far more valid way of deciding.
yep
black panther beat the FF
so black panther>FF>galactus

also, BP> the surfer, but thats another debate